Senate Repeals 'Don't ask, Don't tell'

[Wio]

Because of this, there is really no point in really asking service members about their sexual orientation because they could easily lie (which is what the government has been asking them to do for the last 13 years, so this shouldn't come as a surprise).

I don't quite get this. Had someone asked you what your sexuality is, aren't they violating the "don't ask" phrase of the protocol? Also, if you are given classified information by the military, do they really expect you to lie about classified information, instead of simply telling others it's classified? The illogical things like that is one of the primary reasons why I wouldn't willfully join the military.

[Forgotten Show]

Why? As I alluded to before, separating service members based on sexual orientation doesn't really solve anything.

Why are men and women afforded different living spaces? The answer is privacy concerns. Why would the same logic not apply to sexual orientation? I don't think separation is a good idea, but I do think that it's a likely option on the table. Either way, until the sometimes aggressively sexual barracks culture I mentioned previously is better handled then homosexuals will remain quiet about it for a long time to come.

Yes, I get it that nobody's going to shout their sexuality from the rooftops. Why it keeps being mentioned confuses me since I'm not worried about that. My point is that with DADT going away, people's jobs will be safe but they will still be all but forced to keep their mouths shut about their preferences.

Uh...derp. There is a reason why you don't hear anything about violence against homosexuals in the military. Its called DADT. Homosexuals didn't report it because they risked being discharged.

What I 'hear' I do from first-hand sources: primarily Marines and a couple Army infantry guys. I don't hear (again, from first-hand sources) about violent victimization of women very often. I'm not making light of other forms of victimization like what you described, but that crap's always going to exist as long as there are differences between people and society cares about those differences.

The criminal stuff is the more immediate concern for me: violence, harassment, etc. There seems to be a lot more of that directed toward homosexuals than toward women, hispanics, pagans, etc., which is where the likelihood of 'small groups' willing to act comes up. You bet I'm singling out one minority - it's the one most likely to catch flak in the manner that concerns me the most.


Bad Memory

[Light Buster]

Have ANY of you guys ever read the Bible? Just asking.

Not me. Not religious. So don't ask.

It's good to see something like this to get pass. People finally get more freedom.

[wolfgirl90]

Why are men and women afforded different living spaces? The answer is privacy concerns. Why would the same logic not apply to sexual orientation?

I went over that already, but I will repeat it again: it can not work because people can lie. Tell me: how in the WORLD do you expect the military is supposed to separate people based on sexual orientation? Can you look at them and figure it out? No. The only way you can possibly make this type of separation is if you ask recruits what their sexual orientation is. Facing the potential of being herded into a building that would serve as a target for full-on prejudice (since now the whole darn base knows exactly where all of the homosexuals live), a lot of them are most likely going to lie. Again, this shouldn't come as a surprise or a stretch of the imagination because the government has been asking homosexuals to lie about their sexuality because of the law and as I said before, even with DADT repealed, there are still going to be some homosexuals who are going to keep their sexuality to themselves, so there is no point in asking.

So, in order to separate recruits based on sexual orientation, the military has to KNOW what their sexual orientation is. The only way they can find out is if they ask. And the only way they can get a truthful answer is if someone is comfortable enough in their sexual orientation to actually give a straight answer (pun not intended). Otherwise people will either give an answer to lie to themselves or avoid persecution, which will undermine the point of the separation in the first place.

I must point out, once again, that the military doesn't always separate genders into separate buildings (again, the Army and Air Force often do combine sexes into the same building), so the argument to further separate personnel based on sexual orientation because of "privacy concerns" is rather flawed. Also, the way that you are talking about this makes sound as if heterosexuals and homosexuals have NEVER shared quarters before. It may not have happened in the (U.S) military, but there are a bunch of other situations (colleges, camps) where sexualities mix.

My point is that with DADT going away, people's jobs will be safe but they will still be all but forced to keep their mouths shut about their preferences.

And I don't disagree with that. However, this only applies if homosexuals actually tell other people about their sexuality. What I am arguing is that homosexuals should be free to explore their sexuality (and be open about it) without the risk of losing their jobs. Going to a gay bar or going on a date doesn't require that other people know about one's sexuality, but under DADT, these actions can get you discharged, regardless of whether you actually opened your mouth. DADT offered no protection from abuse; in fact, it DENIED homosexuals protection since abuse couldn't be reported for more than obvious reasons.

What I 'hear' I do from first-hand sources: primarily Marines and a couple Army infantry guys. I don't hear (again, from first-hand sources) about violent victimization of women very often. I'm not making light of other forms of victimization like what you described, but that crap's always going to exist as long as there are differences between people and society cares about those differences

What I was getting at was that what you "hear" about and what actually happens are two separate things. What you "hear" about can only happen if 1) a woman reports the abuse that has happened to her (which unfortunately doesn't happen as often as it should) and 2) some other guys sees (or admits to) what's going on and then your military sources tell you. Just because THEY don't hear about a lot of female victimization doesn't mean that it doesn't happen or others don't know (and your Army infantry source is not going to hear a lot about female victimization going on around him anyway since females are not allowed to serve in infantry).

The criminal stuff is the more immediate concern for me: violence, harassment, etc. There seems to be a lot more of that directed toward homosexuals than toward women, hispanics, pagans, etc., which is where the likelihood of 'small groups' willing to act comes up. You bet I'm singling out one minority - it's the one most likely to catch flak in the manner that concerns me the most.

Again, I must ask WHY you believe that this is so. Of all the other groups, WHY are homosexuals the ones who are "especially easy to victimize"? What about them is going to inherently separate them from ALL other minorities to the point where they will get the most (and the highest degree of) abuse?

While I certainly believe that homosexuals might get some flak from others, I don't think that they will get much more than any other minority as long as they are given the same protection as their fellows (which the Pentagon has time to do). And while I understand your concern, downplaying the victimization of other minorities simply because one concerns you the most (or even worse, because you think "that crap's always going to exist") is not the best way to approach the situation.

[Meenah]

Yes, a victory for hell-bound sinners. Homo = sin. The Bible says so. It was written by God. God can't lie or make a mistake. He's infallible.

Excuse me, God told people to write it for him. Get your facts straight.
Facts? I'm Roman Catholic.

Have ANY of you guys ever read the Bible? Just asking.

I've read it. Did YOU understand the Bible?

[Aulos]

Hey look, Obama did something good for once! ^_^

Yes, a victory for hell-bound sinners. Homo = sin. The Bible says so. It was written by God. God can't lie or make a mistake. He's infallible.

You may be trolling, but I be posting a general message here. Not just towards you, if your post is actually what you feel, but towards everybody who seems to feel this way... Like some of my "friends" IRL. >_>

 

Okay, so you believe what the Bible says is the absolute truth. Well, how do you know that the Bible as we currently have it has been translated accurately? Moreover, how do you know that people have even read it correctly?

If Christians actually followed and read their Bible they would not be making a big deal out of homosexuality, because god forbid, every single one of them does sins every single day that are equivalent to homosexuality, if homosexuality itself actually is a sin, which after doing some research I have to question that.

I don't know if Christianity was created for the right reasons, but I can for sure say that too many of the Christians are not following it for the right reasons. The Bible is not supposed to be a tool for which people who hate on various groups are supposed to be able to hide behind. But it gets used for that constantly. There is very little in this world that pisses me off more than that.

Hating on homosexuals is NOT a religious belief, and even if it was, it has no relevance to the US Government, because the US Government was founded on the separation of church and state. But we all just love to ignore that, don't we? It's there for a reason. Not everybody in the US has to be a Christian, and because of that, not everybody should have to follow the rules set by Christianity, especially not those that might have been completely mistranslated either by bias or by lack of knowledge of how to translate certain words.

[Videogamer555]

I sure hope that the people here condemning homosexuality and/or promoting the bible are doing it for the kick and not serious...

I AM serious. I'm surprised it passed. I'm surprised God permitted a law that ACTIVELY SUPPORTS a sinful life style, be a law that passed! I fully expected God to perform a miracle, enter the minds of the men/women who were voting in congress, and spiritually use His supernatural power to take physical control of their bodies, causing them to vote AGAINST the bill.

I mean really, I expected Him to fight this bill, the way He fought against evil in the Old Testament, because this is such a bill that ACTIVELY SUPPORTS a life style STRONGLY CONDEMNED in the Bible.

[Anoleis]

I AM serious. I'm surprised it passed. I'm surprised God permitted a law that ACTIVELY SUPPORTS a sinful life style, be a law that passed! I fully expected God to perform a miracle, enter the minds of the men/women who were voting in congress, and spiritually use His supernatural power to take physical control of their bodies, causing them to vote AGAINST the bill.

I mean really, I expected Him to fight this bill, the way He fought against evil in the Old Testament, because this is such a bill that ACTIVELY SUPPORTS a life style STRONGLY CONDEMNED in the Bible.

Implying God can do anything. Sorry sonny boy, I'm screwing guys until the day I die.

[Meenah]

I AM serious. I'm surprised it passed. I'm surprised God permitted a law that ACTIVELY SUPPORTS a sinful life style, be a law that passed! I fully expected God to perform a miracle, enter the minds of the men/women who were voting in congress, and spiritually use His supernatural power to take physical control of their bodies, causing them to vote AGAINST the bill.

I mean really, I expected Him to fight this bill, the way He fought against evil in the Old Testament, because this is such a bill that ACTIVELY SUPPORTS a life style STRONGLY CONDEMNED in the Bible.

God gives us a free will. He only steps in when the time is right to get rid of things He wants to get rid of.

And this is not only against homosexuality, people long ago did other things such as murder. You think that is not a sin, either? Theres other activities that people still do, but why do homosexual get bashed the most? Adultery, stealing, murdering, dishonouring parents are alright, correct? Thats done everywhere and thats one of God's 10 Commandments not to do any of those things. Why be heated up with a person who likes the same sex? God looks down upon them, but God doesn't hate them. And in case you didn't know, in the Bible, it never said that sinners will burn in hell for eternity. It was later mention after some time ago from other people. They use that sh*t to scare people of their pants, and who knows to make some profit out of it too. ;/

God is fair and reasonable. He allows things to happen, but He loves us enough to let us do what we want because its called a FREE WILL. I think you never heard of that. So yeah, God can do that. But its not out of love if God will control us. I'd love to pull out a Bible right now to pull up stuff. Sadly~ its real far away from me. >_>;

How would people know if the person is homosexual or not? You forget that they're people too, only different in certain ideas. But they also want the best for their country. Then you just think they're sinners because they practice homosexuality? I've met homophobes, but I think you're the worse. Going to the point to say that God will send them to hell and let them burn; when its not even true at all.

[blueangel06661]

I'm going to laugh when VG admits he's gay and hates himself for so much. Oh? You didn't know? Most people that are soooo much against gays to this extent usually come out of the closet eventually.... PS: Listen to @Seung-li: and @Bassoonist: They know what they are talking about obviously and therefor your argument = invalid.

[Hanamaru Kunikida]

I lol'd how he used the Bible to support his argument, something that has more holes than cheese. =\

[Shinn Kamiyra]

I AM serious. I'm surprised it passed. I'm surprised God permitted a law that ACTIVELY SUPPORTS a sinful life style, be a law that passed! I fully expected God to perform a miracle, enter the minds of the men/women who were voting in congress, and spiritually use His supernatural power to take physical control of their bodies, causing them to vote AGAINST the bill.

I mean really, I expected Him to fight this bill, the way He fought against evil in the Old Testament, because this is such a bill that ACTIVELY SUPPORTS a life style STRONGLY CONDEMNED in the Bible.

By that logic, I suppose you expect God to come out and forcibly prohibit any kind of lifestyle condemned in the Bible, eh? As Seung-li has already made quite clear; that's why humans are gifted with free will. And, really, if God were going to come out and lay the proverbial smack down on any lifestyle it deemed inappropriate, don't you think it would've happened by now?

When all has been said and done, your assumptions that you know what a God is thinking is pure arrogance. Your precious Bible, the foundation for your whole argument, was written by humans; and as it has been said, has been changed and altered throughout the centuries. You have no real way of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that what's in there is what was originally intended.

For your own good, grow up and let go of this immature hatred of yours. In the end, you do nothing but hurt yourself.

[Skylar1]

I fully expected God to perform a miracle, enter the minds of the men/women who were voting in congress, and spiritually use His supernatural power to take physical control of their bodies, causing them to vote AGAINST the bill.

How do you know that God didn't use his supernatural powers to ensure that the bill passed?

[Shinn Kamiyra]

How do you know that God didn't use his supernatural powers to ensure that the bill passed?

[wolfgirl90]

I fully expected God to perform a miracle, enter the minds of the men/women who were voting in congress, and spiritually use His supernatural power to take physical control of their bodies, causing them to vote AGAINST the bill.

God has supernatural powers.

Witches have been accused of having supernatural powers.

I am a Witch.

So, I have supernatural powers.

Therefore, I AM GOD! YESH!!

My first commandment: All trolls will be fed to my wolf.

My second commandment: The Skittles rainbow belongs to me. DON'T TOUCH IT!!

I will make more divine laws as I see fit (whatever happens to tickle my fancy at the moment).

All violators will be punished by my Chuck Norris angels.

YOUR LORD HAS SPOKEN!

 

Trolls are so adorable. They think that they are people.

[Heinekenrana]

I AM serious. I'm surprised it passed. I'm surprised God permitted a law that ACTIVELY SUPPORTS a sinful life style, be a law that passed! I fully expected God to perform a miracle, enter the minds of the men/women who were voting in congress, and spiritually use His supernatural power to take physical control of their bodies, causing them to vote AGAINST the bill.

I mean really, I expected Him to fight this bill, the way He fought against evil in the Old Testament, because this is such a bill that ACTIVELY SUPPORTS a life style STRONGLY CONDEMNED in the Bible.

You either need to write fiction novels or get out more. I'm not sure which, at this point. O_o

On topic: About damn time.