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Thread: Since when did having an opinion become an insult?

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis's Avatar
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    Arrow Since when did having an opinion become an insult?

    According to the man who owns the bakery, rainbow cupcakes and cookies celebrating LGBT pride violate the values of the bakery.
    Link to rest of story~

    Just to be clear this isn't a Gay Rights thread.

    I'm having a hard time understanding why when people disagree on something, they simply can't be mature about it and move along in their lives. Today people are so drawn to the things they deplore that it's a wonder we don't have laws governing the types of socks we wear.

    Now the relevance the story has. Some students wanted to buy Cupcakes, for some holiday celebrated by the homosexual community, from a bakery; the bakery refuse on the premise that the celebration of homosexuality was against their values; the student left and found a different bakery to get there cupcakes from.

    One question: why was this story written? I know that the students might have been a little miffed from not being able to buy cupcakes, but they got their cupcakes in the end, and the bakery lost some business, seems like a fair trade to me. Of course now there is a petition going around to have equal service in the area from businesses.

    All of a sudden making cookies and cupcakes for a gay student group is against family values? So much for customer service
    It's this statement that particularly creams my corn. It is a business, and has the right to refuse service to anybody. It wasn't like they were doing it because they were homosexual, but because they didn't want to become involved in something they didn't support. Then all of a sudden they become mean and horrible people because of there values and beliefs? Seems a little spiteful imho.

    I'm willing to bet that if the students came back and wanted a batch of chocolate chip cookies, the bakery would be perfectly happy to help them, not mentioning the fact that the bakery is probably going to go out of business...


  2. #2
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    Default Re: Since when did having an opinion become an insult?

    Well the bakery wasn't wrong for not taking part in something they do not believe in. For example.... Vegetarians.. They don't eat meat because they do not agree with how the industry slaughters and treats the animals so therefor they don't take part in eating the meat. Sure them not eating it isn't going to affect how things are done but to them the personal value of not taking part in it is greater than the personal value of eating meat. Though the bakery could've gone ahead and completed the order even though they did not support it but apparently their values against gays were greater than profit. I'm sure they did not expect this outcome when they made this choice but it just shows that if they complain about it then maybe they need to edit their values.

    If you take economics you'll understand this better. Every choice has a cost and a benefit. This choice has a cost of potentiality going out of business but a benefit if still keeping true to family values is greater :/
    Last edited by blueangel06661; 09-24-2010 at 07:32 PM.

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Since when did having an opinion become an insult?

    I'm sure they did not expect this outcome when they made this choice but it just shows that if they complain about it then maybe they need to edit their values.
    Why should someone change their beliefs because someone else is offended by them? It isn't like they go and picket with the WBC. All they did was not want to support something.

    If you take economics you'll understand this better. Every choice has a cost and a benefit. This choice has a cost of potentiality going out of business but a benefit if still keeping true to family values is greater :/
    I wasn't talking about the economical side of this, and I have taken economics(most boring class EVAR) I'm talking about why many people seem to have the "Stop liking what I don't like" and vise versa mentality.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Since when did having an opinion become an insult?

    Quote Originally Posted by ѺϦᵴιᶑιѧϗ ʆʋᶑᶃԑ View Post
    Why should someone change their beliefs because someone else is offended by them? It isn't like they go and picket with the WBC. All they did was not want to support something.
    When did I say they should change their beliefs. I just say they needed to re-order their VALUES not BELIEFS. There is a difference between values and beliefs. They can believe in not supporting gays all they want. But if they want to not lose business and make profit then they just should've gone ahead and take the orders. So if THEY complain about their own choice due to business loss then their values were not straight and in the end care more about profit than not supporting gays which was the other way around at first until the decision was made.


    Quote Originally Posted by ѺϦᵴιᶑιѧϗ ʆʋᶑᶃԑ View Post
    I wasn't talking about the economical side of this, and I have taken economics(most boring class EVAR) I'm talking about why many people seem to have the "Stop liking what I don't like" and vise versa mentality.
    Okay.. If you are talking about a business and the choice they made about something. You are talking about economics like it or not. It may not be the class version of economics but without a doubt you are thinking economically. Maybe if you paid attention in economics you would've learned this.

    FYI: Even debating with yourself about staying up late is thinking economically.
    Last edited by blueangel06661; 09-25-2010 at 05:03 AM. Reason: Spelling :[

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Since when did having an opinion become an insult?

    Yeah, I agree with OP in the general sense.

    I've always disliked how the "right-seeking" groups (most notably feminists, homosexuals, African Americans -- not all of them of course) have this fantastic combination of being overly emotional and sensitive coupled with group thinkwiki and group polarizationwiki, and an overall lack of rational thought. Toss in the media attention and you get something really ugly.

    In this particular case, I don't think what the bakery did was a rational thing, but it happened. Big deal. Let's go find another bakery and laugh at how this bakery lost its business, THE END. It wasn't like the bakery was advocating hate towards the homosexuals. They just didn't want to support something that is against their "values" (whatever that is supposed to mean) -- being butthurt about it will not make them change those "values". And it will not yield anything to the homosexual community...

    ... perhaps except for creating some noise and getting some media attention like they always do. Oh, wait -


    EDIT: I pull that back. Since it turned out to be a discrimination case, it's their right. My apologies to the offended party. I don't have the slightest idea about the law in the US.
    Last edited by Aku no Hikari; 09-26-2010 at 04:33 AM. Reason: My point no longer stands.
     

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    Default Re: Since when did having an opinion become an insult?

    I dunno, I would be pretty pissed if a restaurant didn't let an interracial couple dine at their business, but would be happy to if they wanted to dine with dates of their own race.


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  7. #7
    Senior Member Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since when did having an opinion become an insult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capernicus View Post
    I dunno, I would be pretty pissed if a restaurant didn't let an interracial couple dine at their business, but would be happy to if they wanted to dine with dates of their own race.
    This still does happen in the deep south, it's rather sad.

    But the all the bakery did was deny them rainbow frosting cupcakes.


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    Default Re: Since when did having an opinion become an insult?

    Is the company's loss, so I don't see the reason for all the commotion. O-o

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    Default Re: Since when did having an opinion become an insult?

    Clearly, you are confusing opinionwiki and discriminationwiki. Having an opinion, for example homosexuality is a sin, is just fine, but when you allow that opinion to influence your actions, for example refusing them rainbow cupcakes, that is discrimination.

    To be honest, I'm more concerned about your apparent distaste for the article, which is, you know, to be expected. It would be silly to think otherwise. It came from gayrights.org, not CNN. It is NOT big news, there are no masses of people outraged by this. You are blowing this out of proportion.

    OP, you either have serious sexuality issues or are just trolling me.
    Last edited by Capernicus; 09-25-2010 at 02:46 AM.


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    Default Re: Since when did having an opinion become an insult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capernicus View Post
    Clearly, you are confusing opinionwiki and discriminationwiki. Having an opinion, for example homosexuality is a sin, is just fine, but when you allow that opinion to influence your actions, for example refusing them rainbow cupcakes, that is discrimination.

    To be honest, I'm more concerned about your apparent distaste for the article, which is, you know, to be expected. It would be silly to think otherwise. It came from gayrights.org, not CNN. It is NOT big news, there are no masses of people outraged by this. You are blowing this out of proportion.

    OP, you either have serious sexuality issues or are just trolling me.
    Quote Originally Posted by ѺϦᵴιᶑιѧϗ ʆʋᶑᶃԑ View Post
    Just to be clear this isn't a Gay Rights thread.
    It's more about the whole right-seeking group thing akuNoHikari mentioned. And yeah, I agree with him.
    Last edited by 3pleT; 09-25-2010 at 04:25 AM.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Since when did having an opinion become an insult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capernicus View Post
    Clearly, you are confusing opinionwiki and discriminationwiki. Having an opinion, for example homosexuality is a sin, is just fine, but when you allow that opinion to influence your actions, for example refusing them rainbow cupcakes, that is discrimination.

    To be honest, I'm more concerned about your apparent distaste for the article, which is, you know, to be expected. It would be silly to think otherwise. It came from gayrights.org, not CNN. It is NOT big news, there are no masses of people outraged by this. You are blowing this out of proportion.
    First what the bakery did was not discrimination. All businesses have the right to refuse service to ANYONE, and if serving these cupcakes for a gay holiday that may conflict with their religion or beliefs then they have all the say in the world to do so. Though I think using the excuse that it might influence their daughters negatively is a cop out.

    Also to answer the question on why this article was written exactly coincides with the second part of your post. It wasn't posted on CNN or Fox news or any other major media outlet but i'm sure that it was the intent. How could you say otherwise? To grab national attention and show how "badly" gays are being treated. To entice the masses into a outrage. That's the only reason a article like this would be written, and if it keeps getting more attention like it is now then it'll do just that and eventually cause the company to go into the red and it might even have to close down because of the people boycotting this bakery all because they are over reacting to this minor situation. It's not the OP that is blowing this out of proportion but the gay community that is supporting this article.

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    Default Re: Since when did having an opinion become an insult?

    While it may not have been the best decision, it was still their decision. I haven't read the article, and I don't plan on it, but I'm guessing that the bakery is privately owned? They have the right to refuse service to anyone of their choosing.

    But whoever did say that were the people to come back just wanting chocolate cookies or something else that wasn't rainbow cupcakes, the bakery probably would have made them, is most likely right.

    I'm not seeing this as discrimination. The way that I see it is the bakery doesn't agree with gay rights and they didn't want to support this parade or whatever it was in any way. Yes, they lost business. They know that. But it shouldn't have been made into a fuss. It was a small ordeal that was better off not having a silly article written by some butthurt people who still, in the end, got their silly little cupcakes.



    But thanks to this, I now want cupcakes. So excuse me.


    Tomorrow's a new day.

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    Default Re: Since when did having an opinion become an insult?

    "I dissaprove of what you say but i will defend to the death your right to say it"- Voiltaire.

    talk about overeacting, imagine what it would've happened if they had put a sign in the window saying "chocolate chip cookies for sale". it would be the end of life as we know it. Just because they decided not to be associated with a festival 99% of us have never heard of dousn't mean that they disagree with it. it woul be like christians getting pissed off that a shop dousn't have a sign in the widow saying Jeeses Saves. it just reflects badly on the press that this actually made the news. I blame the press, kinda like that pastor who wanted to burn the Qu'rans, if the press just ignored the little prick then nobody would've got worked up about it.

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    Default Re: Since when did having an opinion become an insult?

    Aaah, you kids are starting to grow up and reason already. Except for you, Caps, no dessert for you tonight!


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    Default Re: Since when did having an opinion become an insult?

    Quote Originally Posted by McDoom, Dr. View Post
    Aaah, you kids are starting to grow up and reason already. Except for you, Caps, no dessert for you tonight!
    Thanks, grampa. Don't forget to take your pills and change your diaper before you go to sleep. And remember, do NOT swear at (or try to kill) the mail guy. For the millionth time (and I hope you remember it this time, but seems it's hopeless), he is NOT a Russian spy trying to steal "confidential data" out of our mailbox.
     

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    Default Re: Since when did having an opinion become an insult?

    Quote Originally Posted by akuNoHikari View Post
    Thanks, grampa. Don't forget to take your pills and change your diaper before you go to sleep. And remember, do NOT swear at (or try to kill) the mail guy. For the millionth time (and I hope you remember it this time, but seems it's hopeless), he is NOT a Russian spy trying to steal "confidential data" out of our mailbox.
    Bollocks, sonny! He's an American spy trying to steal data from great Mother Russia, and not paying for it! And you think this container of Xanax is going to keep me from spreading that? Why, back in my days, all we had was PCP. And we succeeded to imagine rainbows and invisible pink unicorns when we were tripping on it in a middle of a bullet rain!
    Quote Originally Posted by Capernicus View Post
    To everyone who still thinks this wasn't discrimination:
    You obviously did not click on the wiki links. Opinion is just that, opinion. Discrimination is then taking that opinion and using it to justify some kind of ecceterae, ecceterae, ecceterae
    We can pretty much figure out what a word means and philosophize about it's use on our own or using a nice paper book; we don't need a dictatorial BSpedia to tell us what it's exact meanings are and where it's limitations are bound.


  17. #17
    Senior Member Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since when did having an opinion become an insult?

    So if THEY complain about their own choice due to business loss then their values were not straight and in the end care more about profit than not supporting gays which was the other way around at first until the decision was made.
    They aren't complaining, they're sticking to their values. Everyone else is going bat-crap-crazy over it.

    Okay.. If you are talking about a business and the choice they made about something. You are talking about economics like it or not. It may not be the class version of economics but without a doubt you are thinking economically. Maybe if you paid attention in economics you would've learned this.
    Again this isn't about how the choices made relate to economics. This is about why some people get so worked up or such a small thing.

    FYI: Even debating with yourself about staying up late is thinking economically.
    I read the economics book, thinking withing the margarine and all that jazz.

    BTW: If all you're going to do is argue how everything is related to economics, and completely ignore the real point of the thread, just don't post.


    Clearly, you are confusing opinionwiki and discriminationwiki. Having an opinion, for example homosexuality is a sin, is just fine, but when you allow that opinion to influence your actions, for example refusing them rainbow cupcakes, that is discrimination.
    By that line of thinking anytime I buy from Bashas' instead of Frys I'm discriminating against the Unions. The bakery was perfectly fine with the students being homosexual, what they didn't want to do was make cupcakes with rainbow frosting. NOT because the students were gay, but because they didn't agree with the purpose of said cupcakes. If the WBC had walked in wanting cupcakes with "God hates Fags" in the frosting, I'm sure the bakery would have told them no as well( or told them something far more insulting knowing Indianapolis)

    To be honest, I'm more concerned about your apparent distaste for the article, which is, you know, to be expected. It would be silly to think otherwise.
    This doesn't make any sense.

    It came from gayrights.org, not CNN. It is NOT big news, there are no masses of people outraged by this. You are blowing this out of proportion.
    "I explained we're a family-run business, we have two young, impressionable daughters and we thought maybe it was best not to do that," said co-owner David Stockton to a local Fox television station
    Everything starts at the local level.
    Besides the point of the article isn't because it's such a big story. If I wanted a big story I would have gotten one of the hundreds of articles about how some poor dude insulted another dude, and the other dude was a minority, so it was a hate crime, or other such nonsense.

    OP, you either have serious sexuality issues or are just trolling me.
    Actually its OJ for Obsidian Judge, this isn't 4chan.
    And you know Caps, not everything is about you. The entire world is allowed to have its own opinions and beliefs; you can disagree with them all you like, it isn't going to change them.
    Cheers~
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  18. #18
    The Palmtop Tiger blueangel06661 has a reputation beyond repute blueangel06661 has a reputation beyond repute blueangel06661 has a reputation beyond repute blueangel06661 has a reputation beyond repute blueangel06661 has a reputation beyond repute blueangel06661 has a reputation beyond repute blueangel06661 has a reputation beyond repute blueangel06661 has a reputation beyond repute blueangel06661 has a reputation beyond repute blueangel06661 has a reputation beyond repute blueangel06661 has a reputation beyond repute blueangel06661's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since when did having an opinion become an insult?

    Quote Originally Posted by ѺϦᵴιᶑιѧϗ ʆʋᶑᶃԑ View Post
    They aren't complaining, they're sticking to their values. Everyone else is going bat-crap-crazy over it.
    Well heres my quote. I do not know if they are complaining or not. I'll put it in big letters for you

    Quote Originally Posted by Blueangel06661
    So if THEY complain about their own choice due to business loss then their values were not straight and in the end care more about profit than not supporting gays which was the other way around at first until the decision was made.
    So I said if. But since they are not who cares? No big deal for them then they can do what they want. And the group got their cupcakes so whatever. Discrimination happens and I'm sure they know that by now. After that it's just the public. And the public is somewhat stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by ѺϦᵴιᶑιѧϗ ʆʋᶑᶃԑ View Post
    Again this isn't about how the choices made relate to economics. This is about why some people get so worked up or such a small thing.


    I read the economics book, thinking withing the margarine and all that jazz.

    BTW: If all you're going to do is argue how everything is related to economics, and completely ignore the real point of the thread, just don't post.
    Excuse me sir but you are not of standards to tell me if or if not I should post in a thread. Have a few more thousand post and a few more years added to your name and we'll talk. At least I'm being smart and reasonable and not complaining about "Thats stupid they didn't have to tun away those people" or blah blah blah. It simply does not matter what I talk about because no matter what I'm ON TOPIC! [except now] Just because I don't think about it the same way you do doesn't mean I can't post. I'm saying the same things nearly everyone else is except more logically. Big whoop.

    In the end most opinions are insulting like it or not... It's just an opinion. But if the other party took it more serious approach to it they are just putting in their opposing opinion to the first opinion.. And you can't be insulted by my post because it's just an opinion so therefor not insulting one bit since opinions are never insulting to you apparently otherwise you wouldn't have asked when they became insults. :]

    -----oh btw.. if this thread is about why people get worked up over such a matter... we already have one here http://www.animeforum.com/showthread...persensitivity

    ....Just a different starter story.. I'm jus' sayin'....
    Last edited by blueangel06661; 09-25-2010 at 02:51 PM.

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  19. #19
    Senior Member Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since when did having an opinion become an insult?

    Quote Originally Posted by blueangel06661 View Post
    Excuse me sir but you are not of standards to tell me if or if not I should post in a thread. Have a few more thousand post and a few more years added to your name and we'll talk. At least I'm being smart and reasonable and not complaining about "Thats stupid they didn't have to tun away those people" or blah blah blah. It simply does not matter what I talk about because no matter what I'm ON TOPIC! [except now] Just because I don't think about it the same way you do doesn't mean I can't post. I'm saying the same things nearly everyone else is except more logically. Big whoop.
    I meant that we are looking at the social, and or psychological, aspect of this, not the economical. And since when does having more posts on an internet forum make someone an expert on anything?
    btw: we are the same age.

    Quote Originally Posted by blueangel06661 View Post
    In the end most opinions are insulting like it or not... It's just an opinion. But if the other party took it more serious approach to it they are just putting in their opposing opinion to the first opinion.. And you can't be insulted by my post because it's just an opinion so therefor not insulting one bit since opinions are never insulting to you apparently otherwise you wouldn't have asked when they became insults. :]
    I'm not insulted by your opinion, because it holds no value to me. I'm confuse on why the general populace deems it fit to try and bulldoze those who have different opinions.
    Last edited by Anoleis; 09-25-2010 at 02:58 PM.


  20. #20
    LUCKY DUCK Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since when did having an opinion become an insult?

    Quote Originally Posted by ѺϦᵴιᶑιѧϗ ʆʋᶑᶃԑ View Post
    By that line of thinking anytime I buy from Bashas' instead of Frys I'm discriminating against the Unions. The bakery was perfectly fine with the students being homosexual, what they didn't want to do was make cupcakes with rainbow frosting. NOT because the students were gay, but because they didn't agree with the purpose of said cupcakes. If the WBC had walked in wanting cupcakes with "God hates Fags" in the frosting, I'm sure the bakery would have told them no as well( or told them something far more insulting knowing Indianapolis)
    The fact that you're speculating on this makes me laugh. Why are you assuming anything about the baker? And so what if he wouldn't have made cupcakes that said "God hates Fags"? That really has no bearing on this subject.


    This doesn't make any sense.
    Yes it does. If you are expecting a gay rights site to not be upset when a local business refuses a gay person service, you're out of your damn mind.

    Everything starts at the local level.
    Besides the point of the article isn't because it's such a big story. If I wanted a big story I would have gotten one of the hundreds of articles about how some poor dude insulted another dude, and the other dude was a minority, so it was a hate crime, or other such nonsense.
    What was the point, to marvel at gays being mad that another gay person was refused service?

    Actually its OJ for Obsidian Judge, this isn't 4chan.
    Why would I want to give you a nickname? And whoever said I was making it 4chan, I was just too lazy to type out your name for which I have not the characters for. Besides, why would you even say that, seeing as you are posting macros every chance you get.

    And you know Caps, not everything is about you. The entire world is allowed to have its own opinions and beliefs; you can disagree with them all you like, it isn't going to change them.
    I never said it was about me (let alone that EVERYTHING was about me), I stated the possibility that it was in this instance. And given the timing (just days after you stop debating in the DADT thread), I would be silly to not be suspicious. By the way, it's nice to know that you are going into this debate without an open mind. You know that defeats the purpose of debating?

    Oh look, there you go again. How lame of you to use the same one twice within days of each other.

    To everyone who still thinks this wasn't discrimination:
    You obviously did not click on the wiki links. Opinion is just that, opinion. Discrimination is then taking that opinion and using it to justify some kind of action. In this case, refusing to make the rainbow sprinkle cupcakes. By its very DEFINITION, this is discrimination. There is no arguing that.

    I also never said that it wasn't the baker's right to have such an opinion, or to even refuse the gay kids service. I only said that the gay kids and the gay rights site alike were not being unreasonable in being upset. But notice no one is asking for the baker to be tarred and feather, I only have seen calls to mail the baker tons of rainbow sprinkles. Hardly seems to me that anyone is getting their knickers in a twist.

    I suppose none of you have been in the same situation as these kids, but I have. I have had a lady come up to me and my girlfriend after a movie to comment how disgusting it was to see two girls cuddling and occasionally kissing during a movie, and I've had a family outright refuse to share an inner-tube at a water park with me and my girlfriend because we are gay. I've had 3 coworkers make complaints against me because the sight of me kissing my girlfriend offends them. I see it a lot, it makes everyone uncomfortable and angry. So why not share it with people who have gone through the same way? Why are you ridiculing coping process? Shame on you.
    Last edited by Capernicus; 09-26-2010 at 02:39 AM.


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  21. #21
    Member Hypnotik has a reputation beyond repute Hypnotik has a reputation beyond repute Hypnotik has a reputation beyond repute Hypnotik has a reputation beyond repute Hypnotik has a reputation beyond repute Hypnotik has a reputation beyond repute Hypnotik has a reputation beyond repute Hypnotik has a reputation beyond repute Hypnotik has a reputation beyond repute Hypnotik has a reputation beyond repute Hypnotik has a reputation beyond repute Hypnotik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since when did having an opinion become an insult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capernicus View Post


    To everyone who still thinks this wasn't discrimination:
    You obviously did not click on the wiki links. Opinion is just that, opinion. Discrimination is then taking that opinion and using it to justify some kind of action. In this case, refusing to make the rainbow sprinkle cupcakes. By its very DEFINITION, this is discrimination. There is no arguing that.
    You obviously don't get it do you?
    They weren't refusing service to the patrons because they were gay. They were refusing to fulfill the order because of what the cupcakes stood for. If those same gay patrons wanted a order of 400 chocolate chip cookies with smiley faces on them the order would have been fulfilled. Just as the others have said as well.

  22. #22
    The Greekest Letter in the Alphabet. Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since when did having an opinion become an insult?

    Quote Originally Posted by ѺϦᵴιᶑιѧϗ ʆʋᶑᶃԑ View Post
    Again this isn't about how the choices made relate to economics. This is about why some people get so worked up or such a small thing.
    But....isnt that what youre doing as well?


    Quote Originally Posted by ѺϦᵴιᶑιѧϗ ʆʋᶑᶃԑ View Post
    Actually its OJ for Obsidian Judge, this isn't 4chan.
    And you know Caps, not everything is about you. The entire world is allowed to have its own opinions and beliefs; you can disagree with them all you like, it isn't going to change them.
    Cheers~
    Op- Original Poster. Besides, if she wants to think everything is about her, so be it. Its her opinion and shes entitled to it. She has the right to disagree with others all she wants, anyone saying otherwise isnt going to change that.

    As for the bakery-

    Sure, I dont think its fair to cut out a whole group because you disagree with their life views [in this case, being homosexual], but its thats business's right to do so.

    If you look hard enough, you can find discrimination just about everywhere. In this case it was a bit more obvious. Click image for larger version

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  23. #23
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since when did having an opinion become an insult?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaruDashi View Post
    Sure, I dont think its fair to cut out a whole group because you disagree with their life views [in this case, being homosexual], but its thats business's right to do so.
    No, it isn't. I kinda went over that. Again, I don't know where the hell people are getting this idea that businesses have the "right" to basically discriminate against people while using values as a front. I can't help but think that if this was a group of minorities getting refused service that this would be an ENTIRELY different thread.

    I'll go over it again. Businesses do have a right to refuse service, however, they by no means have the "right" to refuse service to ANYONE. Civil rights acts (federal, state and local) still apply to them and businesses (the vast majority of which are classified as "public accommodations") can't discriminate against people. This law was made in 1964, so again, I don't know where you guys are getting this idea that businesses can discriminate against people.
    This is my war face.

    This is what happens to trolls who mess with me.

  24. #24
    The Greekest Letter in the Alphabet. Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega has a reputation beyond repute Ωmega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since when did having an opinion become an insult?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    No, it isn't. I kinda went over that. Again, I don't know where the hell people are getting this idea that businesses have the "right" to basically discriminate against people while using values as a front. I can't help but think that if this was a group of minorities getting refused service that this would be an ENTIRELY different thread.

    I'll go over it again. Businesses do have a right to refuse service, however, they by no means have the "right" to refuse service to ANYONE. Civil rights acts (federal, state and local) still apply to them and businesses (the vast majority of which are classified as "public accommodations") can't discriminate against people. This law was made in 1964, so again, I don't know where you guys are getting this idea that businesses can discriminate against people.
    In this case, yes they can.

    Both federal and state laws prohibit businesses from denying public accommodation to citizens on the basis of race, color, religion or national original. The Federal Civil Rights Act guarantees all people the right to "full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin."
    The right of public accommodation is also guaranteed to disabled citizens under the Americans with Disabilities Act, which precludes discrimination by businesses on the basis of disability.
    In addition to protections against discrimination provided under federal law, many states have passed their own Civil Rights Acts that provide broader protections than the Federal Civil Rights Act. For example, California's Unruh Civil Rights Act makes it illegal to discriminate against individuals based on unconventional dress or sexual preference.
    In the 1960's, the Unruh Civil Rights Act was interpreted to provide broad protection from arbitrary discrimination by business owners. Cases decided during that era held that business owners could not discriminate, for example, against hippies, police officers, homosexuals or Republicans, solely because of who they were.
    In cases in which the patron is not a member of a federally protected class, the question generally turns on whether the business's refusal of service was arbitrary, or whether the business had a specific interest in refusing service. For example, in a recent case, a California court decided that a motorcycle club had no discrimination claim against a sports bar that had denied members admission to the bar because they refused to remove their "colors" or patches, which signified club membership. The court held that the refusal of service was not based on the club members' unconventional dress, but was to protect a legitimate business in preventing fights between rival club members.
    On the other hand, a California court decided that a restaurant owner could not refuse to seat a gay couple in a semi-private booth where its policy was to only seat two people of the opposite sex in such booths. There was no legitimate business reason for the refusal of service, and so the discrimination was arbitrary and unlawful.
    In one more complicated case, a court held that a cemetery could exclude "punk rockers" from a private funeral service. A mother requested that the funeral service for her 17-year old daughter be private and that admission to the service be limited to family and invited guests only. The cemetery failed to exclude punk rockers from the service. The punk rockers arrived in unconventional dress, wearing makeup and sporting various hair colors. One was wearing a dress decorated with live rats. Others wore leather and chains, while others were twirling baton-like weapons, drinking and using cocaine. The punk rockers made rude comments to family members and were generally disruptive of the service.
    Ironically, the funeral business had attempted to rely on the Unruh Civil Rights Act, claiming that if they had denied access to the punk rockers, they would have been in violation of the Act. But the court held that the punk rockers' presence had deprived the deceased person's family of the services of the business establishment, which were meant to provide comfort to grieving family members. On that basis, the court stated that the funeral business could have legitimately denied access to the punk rockers.
    It's interesting to note that while it is unlawful to refuse service to certain classes of people, it is not unlawful to provide discounts on the basis of characteristics such as age. Business establishments can lawfully provide discounts to groups such as senior citizens, children, local residents or members of the clergy, in order to attract their business.
    Like many issues involving constitutional law, the law against discrimination in public accommodations is in a constant state of change. Some argue that anti-discrimination laws in matters of public accommodations create a conflict between the ideal of equality and individual rights. Does the guaranteed right to public access mean the business owner's private right to exclude is violated? For the most part, courts have decided that the constitutional interest in providing equal access to public accommodations far outweighs the individual liberties involved.

    Businesses cant deny you service for race, color, religion, or national origin. In *some* states, they cant for sexual preference or for how you look/dress.

    Now I didnt read the article, but unless it was in Calir or one of the other states where sexual preference is protected, then the business was in its right to refuse its services. If it *was*, then theres a good chance they were able to dance around the act like in the case of the funeral home.
    Last edited by Ωmega; 09-26-2010 at 01:12 PM.

  25. #25
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
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    Default Re: Since when did having an opinion become an insult?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaruDashi View Post
    In this case, yes they can.

    Businesses cant deny you service for race, color, religion, or national origin. In *some* states, they cant for sexual preference or for how you look/dress.

    Now I didnt read the article, but unless it was in Calir or one of the other states where sexual preference is protected, then the business was in its right to refuse its services. If it *was*, then theres a good chance they were able to dance around the act like in the case of the funeral home.
    This is unrelated, but what's funny is that I know precisely where you got that information from. I have read it before. Not questioning its validity; just stating I read it just hours ago.

    Anyway, again, I already pointed out that there is a hole in the discrimination laws concerning homosexuals. Its the reason why the students acted the way that they did, so I am not arguing against the fact that businesses can discriminate against homosexuals without repercussion (unless they are in the 20 states and in D.C that have laws against it).

    What I AM arguing against is the fact that some people, including YOU (so don't try backpedaling out of it now), said that businesses have the "right" to refuse service to anyone when they don't (and again, I don't know where people are getting that idea).

    The Civil Rights Act makes discrimination illegal against those classes. It does NOT mean that a business still retains the "right" to discriminate against those not covered within the act or other acts made by the state. It ONLY means that no criminal action can be taken against them for the discrimination. Just because one can't discriminate against women or minorities doesn't mean they have the "right" to discriminate against homosexuals.

    Also, I don't think I understood what you meant when you brought up the funeral home. In that case, the funeral home DID have the right to get rid of the punk rockers, but failed to exercise that right due in part to their interpretation of the Unruh Civil Rights Act. Nobody "danced" around the Act.
    This is my war face.

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