THQ: Buying used games is cheating?

[Hanamaru Kunikida]

http://kotaku.com/5620280/thq-buying...es-is-cheating

Now, now, now...I know Old news are very old news but I just wanted to know some of your thoughts regarding this topic.
___

While I certainly agree, I think THQ have absolutely no right to speak since most of their games are garbage and they re-release the same crap every year. You don't want people selling your games? Make good games, and don't punish the consumer either.

Now, regarding the topic in general. The ones we got to blame are Gamestop, they take all the money when you sell it back, so they should whine to them, than instead to us, and don't punish us at all. Same goes for EA.

Like, for UFC 2010, you got to pay an additional 10 bucks to play online if you bought it used?

[Diocletian]

Screw it, I can download their crappy games if they don't want me buying them.

[Psyco_Panda]

I don't think buying used games is cheating. Especially those of us don't rlyhave much money. We can't afford them brand new. So y not buy it used and restart it over ourselves. Its the best some of can do. We need some kind of entertain us from our crappy lives tht we can afford.

[Hanamaru Kunikida]

Buying old games, like let's say, for PS2, that's fine, of course. But I was mostly referring how people buy used games of a new release just to save 5 bucks.

But yeah, I also believe that pricing games at 60 bucks it's too much. =\

[SigmaSD]

But yeah, I also believe that pricing games at 60 bucks it's too much. =\

Your face is too much. Ohh!!!

[GameGeeks]

Don't get how this is cheating since the same number of copies are sold either way. One person just decides they don't want the game any more and that kinda has to say something about the game if it didn't keep that players interest. Attacking the consumers is never a good idea. A company can end up losing buyers that way. Not to mention the fact that big companies don't care about the game themselves since most of a games budget goes towards adds and the like. I say stick to the smaller companies like Falcom and NIS who actually do care about their games and consistently release good games.

[Skylar1]

This is stupid.

There are a lot of people that can't afford $60 price tag for a new game, (um, think "recession" anyone?). But maybe rather than cut off an arm and a leg, they have the option of buying the game used; which costs less because all games depreciate in gross value after they're released.

And, no, it does not cost THQ money. In fact, it generates extra profit because the shelf price of used games are still always higher than the amount of money that you get back when you trade them in. So it's pretty obvious that this whole fiasco was driven by greed, (as it usually is).

[Kylesico912]

Ok now one thing I have to say. Are these people idiots...? Heres my reasons.
1. Games are bought back are lowered in price after the warrenty so no profit lost but profit in a small way is gained.
2. Used games are usually the only way to get a "new" game after the high demand tears them off the shelf.
and 3. like stated above attacking your costumers is a bad Idea, dont expect to many sales in the future.

[Saxima]

I believe that buying used games is good. You save money and the place you're buying it from still makes the money, just not as much. But it depends on what kind of person you are - it you're tight with your money then yeah, you're probably going to buy a used game, but if money's just an object to you and you don't want a game that's "pre-owned" and all shiny and new, then you're going to get the game new.

I don't see what the big deal is, you can buy which ever you please.

[SigmaSD]

I only buy new games when I pre-order them at Gamestop or if I can't find it used and the game is really good. Otherwise I stick to buying the used games cause it is cheaper and I can therefore use the money I saved to buy more games.

And as I told KK before, the developers still make money from the game that was bought. Like for example: Gamestop buys game from developer or whatever. Gamestop sells game to person. Person returns game to get money or credit. Gamestop sells used game to get money back from person who sold it or the amount of credit they used.

Gamestop is a business so they have to make a profit somehow, otherwise there would be no point to them. And if it wasn't for stores like them, most of the developers wouldn't have such an easy time getting their games out to the public.

I mean, if you go to a Wal-mart, Best Buy or whatever other store you can think of, they only carry new games. Those games stay on the shelf for a while and when new games come in, some are taken off the shelf. Most people won't play those games that were taken off, and hence would never know about them. But stores like gamestop, play and trade and game crazy allow gamers to have the option of buying those games.

And if people end up liking a certain game, maybe when the developers come up with a new or similar game they would be more inclined to buy it when it comes out.


Hope that makes sense.

[Hanamaru Kunikida]

Well, buying used games that aren't on the market anymore is fine. It would be impossible for me to find a new copy of an 2007-2008 these days.

I, myself, are guilty of buying used games myself, and it was thought that Buy 2-1 Free also that Gamestop offers.

But the thing about buying games from GameStop or someone else is the fact that the money goes to them, meaning you're not supporting the developer, even if they gotten the Original owner's money.

Now what THQ and EA is doing is wrong, for two companies that re-relase games, one that is shitty(THQ) and the other who is so-so(EA/EA Sports), they have NO RIGHT to complain. Really? Not only you have to use the code, that code is locked to one account. -_- So if you have multiple consoles, like you anre your siblings then you're screwed.

Sigma, you don't get my argument. Let's use a game from last month, like Mafia II, 'kay?
Probably someone already sold it back to GameStop--but the game is good so I doubt it, but whatever. You find a used copy and a new copy(which are 5 bucks of difference) on the shelfs, then you decide to buy the used one, kay? See? When you could have supported the company with 5 bucks more, you're giving the money to GameStop. They(As Mafia II Developers, forgot who) didn't earn any money at all, from you at least.

Buying used games is totally fine as long as their is no New copies of it, since, really? They are only 5 bucks of difference.

[SigmaSD]

Sigma, you don't get my argument. Let's use a game from last month, like Mafia II, 'kay?
Probably someone already sold it back to GameStop--but the game is good so I doubt it, but whatever. You find a used copy and a new copy(which are 5 bucks of difference) on the shelfs, then you decide to buy the used one, kay? See? When you could have supported the company with 5 bucks more, you're giving the money to GameStop. They(As Mafia II Developers, forgot who) didn't earn any money at all, from you at least.

Buying used games is totally fine as long as their is no New copies of it, since, really? They are only 5 bucks of difference.

Well if that is the case then the people would usually buy the used one for one reason; returns. As you are all aware of, in Gamestop if you don't like a game, you can return it before a week after purchase passes. Then you'll be able to try the game out instead of paying the whole 60 bucks and not being able to return it at all.

In my case I mostly wait for the price to go way down.

[Hanamaru Kunikida]

Then that would go to the part that Developers should make better games, right? So if they don't want their games be sold, they should make better ones, right? That's something THQ doesn't get.

[Sanosuke23]

To everyone saying Cory Ledesma's position is wrong: You're retarded. This post will explain why.

Regardless of the quality of the games in question, upon purchasing a used title YOU ARE NOT PAYING THE DEVELOPERS JACK FOR THEIR PRODUCT. You know who you ARE paying? Gamestop, or whatever other used outlet you go to. Please, PLEASE tell me why they should care about you. You are making them no money for their work. You are effectively, from the point of view of the developers, paying to pirate their game. WHY should the developers care what you think? You are Gamestop's customers, not theirs.

You think this practice is NEW? They were doing this with Phantasy Star Online for the Dreamcast, for crying out loud, and that game was good. In that case, the online play was MANDATORY, and if you bought it used you were SOL. Oh boo hoo, I don't get some extra character and online play, or maybe some content that is in no way required to complete the game. Obviously this is based entirely on greed because I'm still paying SOMEONE for the game, so they shouldn't complain. I mean it's not like they're LOSING purchases, right?

That is so wrong it hurts to type it out, even facetiously. Unlike piracy, in which there's the "grey area" of people who actually purchase games they like after pirating in order to support the companies they like, once you buy a used game that's it. You ain't buying it new, even if at a later date you can afford it. You've already spent money on the game. That's a -1 to their sales count. On top of that, how many people COULD afford a new copy but buy used to save a few bucks? That's not even a matter of "well I couldn't afford it unless I buy it used," that's straight up taking a sale away from the people that made it and giving it to people or a company that had nothing to do with the game other than buying it for three dollars and selling it for thirty. You really don't see why that'd be a problem to game developers?

It should also be pointed out that not once was the phrase "The people purchasing these games used are cheating us out of money." The developers undeniably get cheated by the situation as a whole. Considering that Gamestop actively tries to get customers to purchase used copies of a game INSTEAD of new copies, unless those new copies are preorders of course, if ANYONE'S doing the active cheating in this it's Gamestop. That should come as absolutely no surprise however to anyone who's ever looked at what they buy a used game for compared to what they sell a used game for. You wanna talk about greed? You're looking at the wrong people.

The problem is that, despite the rather poisonous effect Gamestop's stranglehold on the retail side of the industry has, what they do is perfectly legal. Developers can't do anything to them, because there's no law against selling things secondhand. Hell, tons of industries have a strong secondhand market. The problem is, with most things purchasing them used comes with the understanding that there's some wear and tear on the thing, and that while it may be serviceable its functionality is somehow reduced. This is not the case with video games; unless you have a disc damaged to the point of causing the game to stop working entirely, you get the whole game functioning at full capacity forevermore, barring you breaking the thing with your clumsy grease-stained hands seriously what is wrong with you. Compare a car with 20,000 miles on it to a lightly scuffed MW2 disc. I hope you see what I mean.

So, they can't really DO anything about Gamestop sniping their customers with their own damn game. What other choices do they have? Well, plenty of games now come with preorder exclusives, this makes things more enticing for people to purchase the game new on launch day. That's one thing they're doing, but clearly that isn't enough. Gamestop still sells a ridiculous amount of used games over new, so more incentive for buying new is needed. Why not sacrifice the ghostly apparitions that comprise the used game consumer market? They owe you nothing, because you have paid them for nothing. You've paid SOMEONE clearly, but not the people whose time and effort went into crafting the thing. I ask again, WHY should they care at all about the people that don't actually pay them for their work?

I'm not saying that buying used games is a vile practice, or that the people that do so are evil. Neither is Mr. Ledesma, from how I read his comments. However, when you purchase a game used you have to stop pretending that you're entitled to anything from the developer, including sympathy or even a full game. You're paying less than full price TO SOMEONE ELSE ENTIRELY for the thing, why do you think you should get the equivalent of full price content FROM SOMEONE YOU DIDN'T PAY? You want the full game but can't afford the full price? Wait until you CAN or go without.

All of this will probably be moot in the near future anyway, as digital transactions begin to become the industry standard and places like Gamestop can ONLY sell used games, because that's the only kind you'll find still in disc format. On the bright side of THAT, downloaded copies are usually cheaper than disc copies anyway, since they don't have to worry about quite as many costs.

[Furore]

The true victims are those consumers at GameStop/eb games paying peanuts less for a game often in noticeably poorer condition, sometimes minus manual and/or cover slip. Sometimes they buff games to the point where they'll work but freeze mid-game at some point, other times they don't work at all causing you to spend the money you saved driving back there to try your luck with another used copy. And that new copy you just bought not in shrink wrap? Chances are it was seven day trialled by all the cheap consumers in your area - it had to get those scratches and stains somehow, right?

Really, if you're gonna buy second hand, try your local pawn shops - at least at most of those places they're more uptight on what they'll take and they'll sell games for a third of their original price, tops. And at those prices you REALLY don't have any reason to crap on about a little missing content.

[Hanamaru Kunikida]

~Snip.

Someone who agreed. Thank you.

Technically, buying used games is legal piracy.

[Sanosuke23]

Technically, buying used games is legal piracy.

In effect, but I think the people both consumers and developers need to look at in a negative light is Gamestop. As I mentioned before, their business practices are poison to the industry, and the shift to digital downloads for all games either replacing or in addition to physical copies can't come soon enough.

[Diocletian]

Dude, it is not piracy in any shape or form. They should be happy people took out money out of their pocket to purchase the game in the first place. Not to mention if you don't want people to buy your game second hand YOU RELEASE SPECIAL EDITIONS. I have no guilt for the countless games I bought second hand. I don't even play video games, often why should I care what some people who releases WWE Smackdown?

[Skylar1]

In effect, but I think the people both consumers and developers need to look at in a negative light is Gamestop. As I mentioned before, their business practices are poison to the industry,

So, I'm guessing "death to rental services" as well then?

and the shift to digital downloads for all games either replacing or in addition to physical copies can't come soon enough.

I dunno. I still kind of like the idea of having a physical copy in my hand when I buy something. Plus, it's a good buffer if in case your system crashes or something and you lose everything..

[Sanosuke23]

Dude, it is not piracy in any shape or form. They should be happy people took out money out of their pocket to purchase the game in the first place. Not to mention if you don't want people to buy your game second hand YOU RELEASE SPECIAL EDITIONS. I have no guilt for the countless games I bought second hand. I don't even play video games, often why should I care what some people who releases WWE Smackdown?

1) I said it is effectively from the developer's point of view. I also said there is nothing BAD about buying used games, just that the developer owes you nothing because you are not their customer. You paid money to someone else, and you are THEIR problem.

2) What about when people buy special editions used? WHAT HAPPENS TO YOUR NEAT LITTLE PACKAGE THEN, MISTER I-DIDN'T-THINK-THINGS-THROUGH? HMMMMM?! But seriously, I don't get what the logic is behind that statement.

3) You shouldn't. Why should they care about you? You're not their customer, neither of you owe the other anything.

So, I'm guessing "death to rental services" as well then?

Gamestop prioritizes the sale of used games over new and preorders for a reason; They minimize the sale of new games and maximize the sale of used. Why? Because they cost less for Gamestop than a new copy and they sell it for a much higher profit. The problem is that consumers, as consumers are wont to do, seek the cheapest purchase so they will almost always by default buy the used game. In moderation this is fine for any industry, but the problem is that Gamestop emphasizes this and they are pretty much THE video game retailer. They control 21% of the market, and their business plan is set up so that their biggest, very real problem is that if they do too well at it they'll bankrupt the industry they're profiting off of. This is an actual concern for them; if they do their job well they actually lose in the long term, and they're dangerously close to achieving this.

That's Gamestop in specific, however. There are other operations that DON'T prioritize used game sales that don't have such a huge share of the market, and nobody cares about them buying and selling used games.

None of that changes the fact that when you buy a used game you aren't paying the developer for their work, and so they don't have to consider you for jack. They don't sell warranties or anything, the only thing guaranteed transferable is the game disc and that guarantee is between you and the previous owner. If you've got a problem with the lack game features, take it up with them.

I dunno. I still kind of like the idea of having a physical copy in my hand when I buy something. Plus, it's a good buffer if in case your system crashes or something and you lose everything..

That's fine, I actually agree that there should never be a COMPLETE replacement, or if there is then provisions should be made for people to make legal backups easily. I just think that at the same time, making the entire PS3 or 360 or Wii library available through their respective store systems would be a grand idea.

[RenegadeC4v]

Oh boo hoo. What about the times when the customers get cheated after they shell out $60 bucks +tax for a crap game? You cant have it both ways. Perhaps if they made better games, you might not have as many people trading them in after a week or so

[Hanamaru Kunikida]

So, I'm guessing "death to rental services" as well then?


I dunno. I still kind of like the idea of having a physical copy in my hand when I buy something. Plus, it's a good buffer if in case your system crashes or something and you lose everything..

Not really, because your purchases should be linked to your account. Just saying.

[Capernicus]

Oh boo hoo. What about the times when the customers get cheated after they shell out $60 bucks +tax for a crap game? You cant have it both ways. Perhaps if they made better games, you might not have as many people trading them in after a week or so

Well jeez, then oh I dunno RENT THE GAME FIRST, SEE IF YOU LIKE IT, AND THEN BUY IT! Is it really that hard? I mean, you may as well be complaining about shelling out $32 for a crappy used game. Have you ever tried to make a fresh, innovative, and engaging game? It's really hard. I mean, if it was so easy they would practically be handing them out on the streets. Stop complaining about buying a crappy game, it's like complaining that McDonald's made you fat. No one made you buy it.

[Diocletian]

Well, if you can't make anything original...don't make anything at all!

If you release a special edition with something IMPORTANT, there's a lesser chance of people buying second hand copies.

[Capernicus]

Then you all would be complaining about the lack of games. You know, the grass is always greener.