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Thread: Why does the school make kids read crappy books?

  1. #51
    Senior Member brolyx74 has a reputation beyond repute brolyx74 has a reputation beyond repute brolyx74 has a reputation beyond repute brolyx74 has a reputation beyond repute brolyx74 has a reputation beyond repute brolyx74 has a reputation beyond repute brolyx74 has a reputation beyond repute brolyx74 has a reputation beyond repute brolyx74 has a reputation beyond repute brolyx74 has a reputation beyond repute brolyx74 has a reputation beyond repute brolyx74's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why does the school make kids read crappy books?

    I wasn't even trolling, just vocalizing my opinion. I didn't think it came across that way, and neither did anybody who I should the conversation to to get their opinions on the debate, but if you think I was trolling, then I'm sorry, I guess.

  2. #52
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    Default Re: Why does the school make kids read crappy books?

    Quote Originally Posted by YokoKuwabara View Post
    I wasn't even trolling, just vocalizing my opinion. I didn't think it came across that way, and neither did anybody who I should the conversation to to get their opinions on the debate, but if you think I was trolling, then I'm sorry, I guess.
    You were just voicing you're opinion. And I didn't once notice you calling them names, just the other way around, so don't feel forced to apologise, YokoKuwabara.
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    Default Re: Why does the school make kids read crappy books?

    Warning: This will be long.

    Personally, I think that a lot of the books I've read because of school were great books.
    When you read them slowly and process what's actually behind it, it's easy to relate to the books.
    Now, I know I'm still just a sophomore in high school, but I still have to say some things about this subject.
    So, here goes (Wow, don't usually do this.)

    Quote Originally Posted by YokoKuwabara
    All of the others sucked. I feel like the books they have us read that are so called "classics" should be replaced with either more current selections, orlet us pick our own books.
    It may just be that a lot of the "classics" you've read were the basis of what started it all for other books that are more recent and you've enjoyed. Have you ever thought of that? And by "replacing" these "classics" with more "recent" books, then won't the true classics slip away eventually until they are forgotten? If teachers merely say, "Oh, Shakespeare was a classic. But, we're never going to read anything about him in all your years of school because people wanted the 'classics' to be replaced with 'more recent books'", then will anyone ever truly know how great Shakespeare was? Maybe you don't find him that great, but what about all the scholars and writers who do look to him, or other authors who wrote other classics, as role models for themselves?
    Besides, if English was your worst subject (as you allude to later) then who are you to say what great (or horrible) writers Shakespeare and other classic writers were?

    Quote Originally Posted by QueerFeminist16
    I'd say it depends heavily on the teacher: even the seemingly dullest of books can come alive, if a teacher can find some themes with which we (the students) can relate - and is passionate about conveying it to us. This, however, takes a keen mind, a willingness to connect with one's students, some creative freedom in the classroom (not having to 'teach to the test'), and plenty of rest the night before - stuff that many of the U.S's overwhelmed, underpaid teachers are thoroughly lacking.
    I agree completely with this statement. When a teacher is just as disengaged to read something as their students, something is wrong (Though, that feeling may also come from the students who just don't want to read what's assigned and make it a point to prove this each day). Luckily, this has rarely been the case. I've had some of the best English teachers over the past few years and I really enjoyed reading the books just because the teachers were so excited to read it as well.

    Seriously. When your teacher is racing around rapidly flapping their arms, then jumping at the white board in order to draw a dragon over a city with little x's in their eyes, then turn to the class quickly and say, "Knocked out dragon over city + Gravity = Noooooooo" (in that way as well), then you are going to enjoy reading that book. Yes, this was The Hobbit.

    Though last year, was literally amazing to me. We read through The Importance Of Being Earnest to start off the year (acting it out, of course and without anything being graded on a test) then went to see the play. I lost my ticket and had to sit next to the teacher (lucky me) and I could literally see the sparkle in his eyes. Every time he laughed, it was a feeling of pure, unadulterated bliss. He loved it so much and his eyes were glued to the stage the whole entire time. Seriously, it was amazing. (Also, having him propose to me wasn't that boring, either. Yes. I was the only one being proposed to.)

    I could go on for days about that teacher and all the wonderful things he did for the class. There was not one book I did not enjoy reading in his class- even the mythology book he called a bit flat was interesting just in the way he had the class take charge of it all.

    Teachers make such a difference in how much you enjoy a book. Seriously.

    Quote Originally Posted by YokoKuwabara
    This is kinda true for me too. After moving and having to go to a new school for sophomore year, they made me take a few classes I had already taken because they were required and I didn't take them there. And I didn't receive credits for a few other classes because I took them in 8th grade. Even though they were high school level classes that I got credit for at my old school, they wouldn't give me the credit. I tried to fight this, because there are so many other classes I could have taken instead of these crappy ones again, like Intro to physical science and health. I wanted to take some more business classes.
    I'm still not sure as to how the relates to the topic at hand (as Capernicus pointed out) but I can completely relate to you. Recently, I transfered to a different high school because two of my best friends are going to this school (granted, we don't have any classes together) and it's a much better school for learning in compared to the school I would be going to. Anyway, in this school I'm having to take Wellness 1, 2, and 3 again. Granted, I still would have had to take a semester of it at the other school, but I'd still have a semester to myself. So yes, I can relate. And yes, it sucks. But that's just the school system in general.

    Also, why wold reading these bad books benefit us in real life if we don't plan on becoming writers. Most people don't become writers, so you other point in your previous point is moot.
    I'm going to guess and assume that by this post you mean this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Capernicus
    Now, later looking back, I see that they were all books that I learned something from, and grew personally as a writer.
    Though, you must have read it wrong because I am 97.99% sure that she meant as a writer in general, not a professional writer.

    Anyway, I'm not quite understanding what you mean by "bad" books. If you mean poorly written, or what. Though, I can assure you that none of the books any my teachers have assigned (and enjoyed themselves) were badly written.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yokokuwabara
    Also, for me anyway, English has always been my worst subject, and is currently the only bad grade I've ever gotten. I got a B in it, though it should have been a B+. The teachers strange grading caused the grade to fall short by about a point. If it wasn't for that class, I'd have a perfect GPA.
    It isn't the book's fault that you didn't have a perfect GPA, it was the teacher's (or perhaps your own) fault.
    And again, if English is your worst subject, then who are you to say who among the classic writers are well written?

    Quote Originally Posted by YokoKuwabara
    The only reading I like is manga and light novels. Maybe if we got to read more stuff like this, not manga, but the light novels, then people wouldn't hate english so much.
    Oh yes, let us read "light novels" all of our lives so that when we grow up and have to actually learn something we say, "I'd like this thousand page reference book turned into a 'light novel' please. So I can enjoy it while I read." Light novels are for little kids. In this day and age, if we go back to reading "light novels" in High School, the world is going to laugh at us. Us, being America (apologies to everyone elsewhere in the world).

    A teacher's job isn't to make you love every book you read (though they can have a great influence on it) or make you love the class you're in. It's to help you learn and prepare for the future. While you may say that you never use the things from the books they make you read, you should probably think about that a bit more.
    You say you "understand" what they mean in classics when they give you morals to live by. And maybe you do. But you can't say that a book is badly written because it's telling something you already know to live by. It's simply reinforcing the fact with a different way of telling it. Just like with children. The best way to get through to kids about things they should and shouldn't do is tell them stories to make them understand. Paint pictures in their minds so they can see what consequences they will face. It is a method that's been used for thousands of years. No, we're not talking about what happened thousands of years ago, nor children's bedtime stories, but it's all connected.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Butcher
    If it's to teach morals,I think I want to make my own morals,and not base them off a book.
    Alright. Let's make you forget everything you have ever learned. Lock you away in a room that's completely shut off from the outside world, yet gives you everything you need for living food, water, and sunlight. No human interaction whatsoever. We could throw a couple animals in there, maybe. Because that's what you would basically be if you weren't raised with morals put in you from the beginning. Your morals will still be the same as long as you interact with other human beings you can go against all the morals, but wouldn't that just make you . . . immoral? Yeah. What separates humans from animals is our ability to think beyond them. To make morals and create. Books are our stepping stones in teaching us how to create.

    Quote Originally Posted by YokoKuwbara
    The things they have us read are usually God awful The only books I ever tolerated, and the last one in this example I liked, were The Great Gatsby, To Kill A Mockingbird, and 1984.
    I read To Kill A Mockingbird the summer of 6th grade. Just so you know and all. In fact, it's still sitting on my shelf behind me. The thing about it was, that when I read it, I completely understood the words that I was reading. I completely understood the main idea of it all. Yet, it wasn't that interesting for me. Because in the end, I didn't understand. At least, not to the extent that I would if I read it again. Since then, I've read so many books and learned so much about English from my teachers and I can't thank them enough for all the assigned reading they gave us. If not, I would have never truly understood the simple things teachers are trying to show us in writing.

    Quote Originally Posted by YokoKuwabara
    Just to clarify for you Cappers, I do find the meaning in some of the books we read, but my real problem is books from so long ago that they hold little relevence in today's society. The main explainations I've gotten from people about why we read these books is because they are classics. Some books I do not enjoy, but I understand the message of it.I just wish we could read books with the same messages, only that convey it in a less boring or tedious manner.
    I just read a book for summer reading that was written over 50 years ago. Fahrenheit 451. Not sure if you've ever read it, but it completely relates to things these days. In fact, reading it, I was amazed at how vividly it described some of our own problems these days.
    I highly recommend reading it and really taking the time to let it all sink in. My teacher made our class stop and think about it every two pages (and write a sticky note about what we thought). Originally, I hated this idea. But, it was a great way to really get me into the book. By page 24, I was completely engrossed in the characters, the plot, and the message behind it. From there, it only got better. As more and more characters were added, you could separate them into different groups to how people really are. Sure, it took things to an extreme but all in all, it was a great book.
    Overview (Feel free to skip over, but no, it's not really a spoiler):
     
    Books are illegal. And as a fireman, Guy Montag's job is to hunt down people who hide books then burn down their houses. Homes are fireproof- they've always been that way. Books are merely a way to drown people in fairy tales and misery- something no one wants. The main goal in life: be happy. Whether that be driving 100miles an hour to get out some stress (hey you may even run over a dog in the process! Maybe 3 or 4!) or going to Funland and smashing windows! Everything is for fun.
    But in a world, secluded from the truth, where your "family" are simply people on a screen shouting at each other, where people murder each other every day for no reason, is there really happiness?

    Trust me. It was not long, boring and tedious. In fact, it was about 165 pages.

    /rant
    Last edited by Tsuki.; 09-08-2010 at 10:38 PM.


  4. #54
    LUCKY DUCK Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus has a reputation beyond repute Capernicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why does the school make kids read crappy books?

    Quote Originally Posted by *Tsuki* View Post
    It isn't the book's fault that you didn't have a perfect GPA, it was your own.
    There, fixed it for you. As a teacher I greatly despise when students blame the teacher for their failing (or otherwise unsatisfactory) grade.

    Oh by the way person I've already forgotten the username to and too lazy to go back to the 2nd page to find out: if you think that my post was venomous, I don't think you'll last very long on this forum.
    Last edited by Capernicus; 09-08-2010 at 10:04 PM.


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    Default Re: Why does the school make kids read crappy books?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capernicus View Post
    Oh by the way person I've already forgotten the username to and too lazy to go back to the 2nd page to find out: if you think that my post was venomous, I don't think you'll last very long on this forum.
    No worries...I've gone through a fair share of unforgiving forums in my heyday; I look forward to some fun times here. Cheers, Capernicus.

    @Tsuki +Major points for the detail of your post.

    Quote Originally Posted by *Tsuki* View Post
    Oh yes, let us read "light novels" all of our lives so that when we grow up and have to actually learn something we say, "I'd like this thousand page reference book turned into a 'light novel' please. So I can enjoy it while I read." Light novels are for little kids. In this day and age, if we go back to reading "light novels" in High School, the world is going to laugh at us. Us, being America (apologies to everyone elsewhere in the world).
    Most certainly, if you're perusing fifth-grade readers in high school, there will be people that'll gladly go out of their way to ridicule you. And if light novels are all that you've ever read by that point in time, you may need to expand your base. But, I don't see anything intrinsically wrong with reading children's novels, regardless of age: there's an engaging simplicity to be had in such stories. Even now, as a college student, I still find new things to discover in works by Beverly Clearly, C.S. Lewis, and Alexander Lloyd, among others. When you really love to read, you begin to stop caring what other people say about your tastes.

    I otherwise agree with you: it's important to allow yourself to be exposed to a great array while learning. It's not always easily apparent, but every book that you tackle helps you to develop. One might never again open a textbook after graduation, but the skills you gain during your time in school will stay with you for life.
    The only stupid question is one that never gets asked.

  6. #56
    Captain No Pants Tsuki. has a reputation beyond repute Tsuki. has a reputation beyond repute Tsuki. has a reputation beyond repute Tsuki. has a reputation beyond repute Tsuki. has a reputation beyond repute Tsuki. has a reputation beyond repute Tsuki. has a reputation beyond repute Tsuki. has a reputation beyond repute Tsuki. has a reputation beyond repute Tsuki. has a reputation beyond repute Tsuki. has a reputation beyond repute Tsuki.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Why does the school make kids read crappy books?

    Quote Originally Posted by QueerFeminist16 View Post

    @Tsuki +Major points for the detail of your post.



    Most certainly, if you're perusing fifth-grade readers in high school, there will be people that'll gladly go out of their way to ridicule you. And if light novels are all that you've ever read by that point in time, you may need to expand your base. But, I don't see anything intrinsically wrong with reading children's novels, regardless of age: there's an engaging simplicity to be had in such stories. Even now, as a college student, I still find new things to discover in works by Beverly Clearly, C.S. Lewis, and Alexander Lloyd, among others. When you really love to read, you begin to stop caring what other people say about your tastes.

    I otherwise agree with you: it's important to allow yourself to be exposed to a great array while learning. It's not always easily apparent, but every book that you tackle helps you to develop. One might never again open a textbook after graduation, but the skills you gain during your time in school will stay with you for life.
    Oh yeah, not saying that light novels are bad or anything. I still have tons of them flooding my bookcase right now. xD
    Just, in high school, you can't expect students to learn a lot if they're rereading books from past days that aren't as advanced in reading level.


  7. #57
    Senior Member Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll has a reputation beyond repute Princely Dreaming Doll's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why does the school make kids read crappy books?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capernicus View Post
    Spoken like someone with only six posts. You know nothing of Doll's infamy, nor Yoko's obvious trolling.
    Thank you for not judging me on who I was. And thank you for not holding a grudge on the past.


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    Default Re: Why does the school make kids read crappy books?

    Try to understand my viewpoint. I think people tend to do their best work in school when they are passionate about what they are doing. When a book is conveys it's point badly, and or is dull, then people tend to lose their passion over it. I showed my english teacher some of my writing in other subjects where I liked what I was writing about, and she agreed that I deserved the A I got on those papers. I felt like, if people could write about books that they were passionate about, the end results would be much better. My papers on the books I liked always got better grade then on the ones I didn't like. Can anyone relate to my thought process or am I alone here?

    And maybe I'm wrong, but I don't look at the light novelsI read as for children when the books have to do with muder, mass homicide, and even sexual abuse in part of them. Sorry for thinking that these books were made for older readers. By older I don't mean adult,but I think high school would be appropriate.
    Last edited by brolyx74; 09-09-2010 at 03:57 AM.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore has a reputation beyond repute Furore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why does the school make kids read crappy books?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capernicus View Post
    By the way, things are slowly changing so that bits of paper matter more and more, and you need to get with it. People who have jobs are finding that, under new legislation and industry conventions, they need to go back to school to get certain degrees and certificates to keep their jobs. I'm telling you this so that you don't get caught in the same trap.
    In my career you get your pieces of paper on the job.
    But that's part of my point, not every career works the same.

    As for looking at his attitude, only time can tell!
    Unless you're psychic or something.

    Oh and Tsuki, it was me who mentioned Shakespeare. What does knowing how great he was way back when have to do with anything now? It's not like they force fed anything by other highly influential writers who are perhaps more relevant for modern times. I suppose it would be handy if you were passionate about the language as his works are an art of sorts, but to make everyone read it... sorta fits with my opinion they force feed us stuff that isn't relevant to us all.
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    Default Re: Why does the school make kids read crappy books?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capernicus View Post
    There, fixed it for you. As a teacher I greatly despise when students blame the teacher for their failing (or otherwise unsatisfactory) grade.
    I kind have to disagree on this. IMO:

    It isn't bad kid because the kid is bad, no it's bad kid because of bad parenting.

    Bad dog no bad training, bad owner.

    Bad student no bad teaching.

    Over the years teaching has declined. Watched a documentary nearly half of the teachers in this newer generation will not know their math. As much as yes, it's partly a students fault, it's also the teacher's fault for not knowing the material.
    The other issue is the education teaches children how to test and is only following a specific curriculum. In some other countries in Europe, the teacher's teach their student a curriculum they set up on their own, test them twice midterm and final like college. The students are known for doing well in this kind of course.

    I don't see how reading light novels prepares you for Beowulf, Odyssey, Hollow Men, etc.

    @Furore: It was Shakespeare, Homer, Edgar Allan Poe, and T.S. Elliot that inspired me to want to become a fictional writer. So there is a purpose.


    "There exist only three respectable beings: the priest, the warrior, the poet. To know, to kill, and to create."-Charles Baudelaire

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    Default Re: Why does the school make kids read crappy books?

    Quote Originally Posted by Princely Dreaming Doll
    @Furore: It was Shakespeare, Homer, Edgar Allan Poe, and T.S. Elliot that inspired me to want to become a fictional writer. So there is a purpose.
    That's sort of what I was trying to say in my last post. To people who do something with English he would be - it's just to those who don't it's not exactly something all would use or even appreciate. Most subjects focusing on things like that here aren't mandatory, English is.
    victoria aut mors

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    Default Re: Why does the school make kids read crappy books?

    But reading that kind of stuff does benefit you in some way, maybe not us, with an already developed comprehension and vocabulary, but it will for those that are just progressing. I read books to enhance my English vocabulary, not only because it's not my native language but more because I'll have a better understanding of any subject.

    This comes from a person who is majoring for Computer Programming and minoring for Culinary Arts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Capernicus View Post
    There, fixed it for you. As a teacher I greatly despise when students blame the teacher for their failing (or otherwise unsatisfactory) grade.

    Oh by the way person I've already forgotten the username to and too lazy to go back to the 2nd page to find out: if you think that my post was venomous, I don't think you'll last very long on this forum.
    Basically I agree with you. However, there's teachers that think they know what they are doing and just show you an "example" and sit their big *** again and just ignore the students. Happened to be back in Freshmen year of High School for Geometry. So in the end of the day, when I walked out of that class...I learned nothing in the class...so I had to go home and actually ask for my parents' help, or review the examples multiple times.
    Last edited by Kaitou+; 09-09-2010 at 04:12 PM.

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    Default Re: Why does the school make kids read crappy books?

    Well,I've come back from a hiatus a few days ago,good thing this is till up too.

    This year I will be required to read Of Mice and Men. I looked up the plot of it,and it looks very disappointing.

    Authors like the classics(Shakespeare,Poe etc) cannot even hold candles to people like Stephen King,or Dean Koontz. The characters in the school books make me mad to no end. I'm not expecting a high and mighty dude(Harry Bosch or Dexter Morgan),but one that is at least tolerant. They even make Angel from MEG look like she has more personality than them,and she is a shark!
    Last edited by The Butcher; 09-09-2010 at 05:32 PM.

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    Default Re: Why does the school make kids read crappy books?

    Quote Originally Posted by YokoKuwabara View Post
    ...by the end of Senior year, I will have accumulated 8 college credits, effectivelfy shortening my college career by a full semester...
    I don't know what universe you come from where 8 college credits = one full semester, but I want in. My associate's degree requires about 64 credits over two years - that's 16 credits per semester. And I go to community college. The only way AP credits can help you graduate a semester early is if you take the maximum number of credits every semester. Even then, it's a stretch; you might need a few winter/summer sessions.

    (Unless you're taking some obtuse major like Interpreter for the Deaf or Heating, Ventilation, & AC, where the credit requirements are 13 or less per semester.)

    Also important to note: A lot of people I know have complained that their AP credits didn't transfer from their high school (and, again, this is community college). Don't be disappointed if you have to retake those requirements in your freshman year.
    Last edited by BoldMushroom; 10-17-2010 at 11:08 AM.
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  15. #65
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    Default Re: Why does the school make kids read crappy books?

    @At the kids *****ing: Listen, like I said.

    You'll have to read it eventually for a grade, right? So my what I'm saying is that people should stop *****ing about it, and just read it, and try to learn something valuable from it, because after all...YOU HAVE TO FREAKING READ IT. Nothing with an educational value it's in vain, so just do it, and try to learn something from it. =\ Complaning won't get you anywhere at all, it's not going to make your teacher change his/her's mind.
    Last edited by Kaitou+; 09-09-2010 at 06:16 PM.

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    Default Re: Why does the school make kids read crappy books?

    Boldmushroom, I do take summer sessions. I've done summer college work since seventh grade to prepare myself. And at the college I want to go to, its 64 credits over 4 years. And Kaitou. I understand where you're coming from, but people need to complain about things they don't like. what does it matter if they complain or not as long as they do the work anyway?

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    Default Re: Why does the school make kids read crappy books?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Butcher View Post
    Authors like the classics(Shakespeare,Poe etc) cannot even hold candles to people like Stephen King,or Dean Koontz.
    You're dead wrong. Shakespeared, Poe, etc. are so better than these modern writers. The modern writers are the worse. 2010 is the like a dry well of books.


    "There exist only three respectable beings: the priest, the warrior, the poet. To know, to kill, and to create."-Charles Baudelaire

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    Default Re: Why does the school make kids read crappy books?

    Quote Originally Posted by Princely Dreaming Doll View Post
    You're dead wrong. Shakespeared, Poe, etc. are so better than these modern writers. The modern writers are the worse. 2010 is the like a dry well of books.
    Their plots were so boring,and the characters were not even tolerable.

    Most of the book series I read come from the 70's-90's half from 2000's,I always hated the old stuff. Their plot never motivated me to read it unless it was for a grade for class. Due to these horriblee books they make other kids read,they think all books suck. Not much kids like myself venture out and research other books that appeal to me. I guarantee you,you replace something like Shakespeare's work in the literature book,and put a part out of Storm Front by Jim Butcher,they will ,at the very least try the whole novel,and research more books.

    To the person saying about learning something: I don't read to learn,I read to entertain myself. If I took morals and stuff from the books I read...well, it would not be too pretty. Also,if the boo makes me learn something whoopee,good for it,but the stuff the school books is not interesting. Things like Jeffery Deaver's The Burning Wire ,I learn how electricity works around NY,and how a person shut down 7 blocks of power to make light bulbs in street lights explode onto people,hitting them with shards of glass that were 1,000 degrees. Also how the people try to re-establish the connection to get the power back on. It was kind of hard to understand though.
    Last edited by The Butcher; 09-09-2010 at 07:08 PM.

  19. #69
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    Default Re: Why does the school make kids read crappy books?

    @Furore: I actually was thinking about when he said that Hamlet was rated at about a C- or something like that.
    @Yoko: Sure, people can complain. But you can't say that it's poorly written because you don't like it. I had actually brought this up in English class today when we were talking about the summer reading because we were talking about how, when their world first started falling into ruins, it's because people wanted things to be shortened. They wanted classics to be turned into 2 minute reads and so on and so forth.
    Also, you say you read about murder, mass homicide (genocide? or just serial killers gone wild?), and even sexual abuse. Something bothers me about this fact, though. I mean, how far into detail are these books going and do you really want all the high school students to be reading about such things book after book after book? Another thing I like about the books schools/teachers assign are the variety in the stories.

    It's funny because we were talking about how, no story in all of history is ever "original" anymore since we all are born and raised, learning about the morals and such in life. "The fact is that there's always going to be some sort of conflict and people will base their stories off of things they learned as children or read in the past."

    Quote Originally Posted by The Butcher
    Authors like the classics(Shakespeare,Poe etc) cannot even hold candles to people like Stephen King,or Dean Koontz. The characters in the school books make me mad to no end. I'm not expecting a high and mighty dude(Harry Bosch or Dexter Morgan),but one that is at least tolerant. They even make Angel from MEG look like she has more personality than them,and she is a shark!
    That's your opinion. Just because you think it's right, doesn't mean that it is to others. So, at least include "In my opinion. . . "
    Though, honestly, I strongly disagree. If those authors never existed, do you think books would be the same they are now? Do you think that Dean Koontz and Stephen King believe the classics to be poorly written and with weak plots/characters/etc? That they have never looked to Shakespeare and Poe's work without a scorn on their face? I think not. I would bet to say some of their best influences to their writing were based off of classic writers.

    If you say the classics are far outdated, then you can't say they are poorly written. You must go back to the time they were written and compare it to the books written then. If you still believe that these innovators of writing were "bad", then I will honestly think you are stupid in that aspect.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Butcher
    Their plots were so boring,and the characters were not even tolerable.
    Maybe the fact that they are so boring to you is because you've seen the plots used multiple times in tons of other books you've read?
    Because just maybe when they were originally written, they were new to the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Furore
    That's sort of what I was trying to say in my last post. To people who do something with English he would be - it's just to those who don't it's not exactly something all would use or even appreciate. Most subjects focusing on things like that here aren't mandatory, English is.
    Wait . . . are you saying that English should be optional?
    Last edited by Tsuki.; 09-09-2010 at 08:18 PM.


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    Default Re: Why does the school make kids read crappy books?

    Quote Originally Posted by *Tsuki* View Post
    That's your opinion. Just because you think it's right, doesn't mean that it is to others. So, at least include "In my opinion. . . "
    Though, honestly, I strongly disagree. If those authors never existed, do you think books would be the same they are now? Do you think that Dean Koontz and Stephen King believe the classics to be poorly written and with weak plots/characters/etc? That they have never looked to Shakespeare and Poe's work without a scorn on their face? I think not. I would bet to say some of their best influences to their writing were based off of classic writers.
    If you say the classics are far outdated, then you can't say they are poorly written. You must go back to the time they were written and compare it to the books written then. If you still believe that these innovators or writing were "bad", then I will honestly think you are stupid in that aspect.
    Even if King and Koontz think their great,and inspired them,do you think that is going make me like those authors?No it will not.

    A book is a book,I compare a book to any time.I 'll compare a 1700's book to a 2000's book,and judge to see which one is better.

    Just because it is a older book,does not mean I will have mercy upon it when I rate it.

    Quote Originally Posted by *Tsuki* View Post
    Maybe the fact that they are so boring to you is because you've seen the plots used multiple times in tons of other books you've read?
    Because just maybe when they were originally written, they were new to the world?
    The plots I see in school books are just repeats of other books or movies I have seen. I know Mystery is repetitive,but the killer and the person solving the crime are not the same all the time,and how they solve it makes it different from other mystery novels.
    Last edited by The Butcher; 09-09-2010 at 07:37 PM.

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    Default Re: Why does the school make kids read crappy books?

    She wasn't talking about giving it mercy just because it's old, but more about giving the respect it needs to get. You may not like them, and that's fine but acknowledge that a lot writers were inspired by the likes of Shakespeare.

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    Default Re: Why does the school make kids read crappy books?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou Kid View Post
    She wasn't talking about giving it mercy just because it's old, but more about giving the respect it needs to get. You may not like them, and that's fine but acknowledge that a lot writers were inspired by the likes of Shakespeare.
    Okay, Edgler Formann Vess' description of why he killed,and how you need to experience every pleasure in life,AND how life is so precious. It is from Dean Koontz's Intensity

    That is some good writing,and philosohpy right there. I don't see that in older writers though. I've acknowledged most of my authors were inspired by people like Poe or Shakespeare,but they still will not get my respect.

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    Default Re: Why does the school make kids read crappy books?

    Respecting who they are and respecting their work are different. I respect Shake as a great writer, despise that I don't really Romeo & Juliet myself, I wouldn't even touch it with 10-foot long pole again. =\
    Last edited by Kaitou+; 09-09-2010 at 08:01 PM.

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    Default Re: Why does the school make kids read crappy books?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Butcher View Post
    Okay, Edgler Formann Vess' description of why he killed,and how you need to experience every pleasure in life,AND how life is so precious. It is from Dean Koontz's Intensity

    That is some good writing,and philosohpy right there. I don't see that in older writers though. I've acknowledged most of my authors were inspired by people like Poe or Shakespeare,but they still will not get my respect.
    Poe, Lovecraft, Shakespeare, Homer, etc. Writing style was always focused on criticizing something in their time. As well, as they are very philosophically based if you take some of their deep connected poems.
    Those kind of stories were written on the basis of thought. To think while you read. What this person is trying to convey and say.

    Stephen King doesn't have that quality, neither does Koontz, or any other writer you praise so much. Their books take no thought, their stories take no thought. I could read Stephen King, but that doesn't settle my need for a good story. Good stories are the kind that make you think.

    "Fiction reveals, what reality obscures"


    "There exist only three respectable beings: the priest, the warrior, the poet. To know, to kill, and to create."-Charles Baudelaire

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    Default Re: Why does the school make kids read crappy books?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou Kid View Post
    Respecting who they are and respecting their work are different. I respect Shake as a great writer, despise that I don't really Romeo & Juliet myself, I wouldn't even touch it with 10-foot long pole again. =\
    Ey. Agreed.
    Read that story at least 4 times through, thought about it for heaven knows how long, and I still can't connect with it.
    The time differences are just too much for me. How they can fall so madly in love with each other in less than two hours- I just don't get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Butcher
    The plots I see in school books are just repeats of other books or movies I have seen. I know Mystery is repetitive,but the killer and the person solving the crime are not the same all the time,and how they solve it makes it different from other mystery novels.
    Wait, so the classic books you read are repeats of other books or movies you've seen which were made after these were written?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Butcher
    Even if King and Koontz think their great,and inspired them,do you think that is going make me like those authors?No it will not.

    A book is a book,I compare a book to any time.I 'll compare a 1700's book to a 2000's book,and judge to see which one is better.

    Just because it is a older book,does not mean I will have mercy upon it when I rate it.
    I didn't say that you have to like the authors. I hate the twilight series but that doesn't mean I don't respect Stephanie Meyer.

    I think what Prince said perfectly words how I feel about this next one . . .

    . . . mercy? Who said anything about mercy?

    EDIT: Why do my posts turn out so freaking long? D:
    Last edited by Tsuki.; 09-09-2010 at 08:32 PM.


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