School spies on students through laptop webcams

[Miss Moonlight]

Articles: here and here

A new motion in the Lower Merion School School District Webcam-spying case has presented extraordinary suggestions as to the frequency and intimate nature of the photographs allegedly taken remotely by the cameras on school-issued laptops.

On Thursday, lawyers for 15-year-old Blake Robbins and his family claimed that thousands of images were taken by the laptop Webcams. Included in these were, according to the motion, "pictures of Blake partially undressed and of Blake sleeping." In addition, images of Web sites visited and snapshots of their instant messages were also allegedly captured.

According to the Philadelphia Inquirer, lawyers claim that each time the LANRev software took Webcam shots, it sent them back to school district servers, where employees found entertainment in "a little LMSD soap opera."

So, the school allowed students to borrow these laptops and take them home, remotely activated the webcams whenever they wanted, and viewed the students and whatever they did in front of them, without their knowledge.

The school said it was to protect the laptops from being lost/stolen, but wouldn't a GPS be more useful for that?

[GameGeeks]

They didn't do it to all students. But yeah, they shouldn't have done it at all. An image isn't going to tell you where it is unless you have every inch of a city memorized. Not possible. Then there's the taking pics of kids in their own rooms. That definitely breaks a few laws. What are schools thinking now a days?

[Gero50]

This is not exactly a rare thing. This is because web cams can sometimes be used a security cams and often they are a lot cheaper and easier to set up. Plus there is the added features that only mid and higher end security cams have.

[sa5m]

This is not exactly a rare thing. This is because web cams can sometimes be used a security cams and often they are a lot cheaper and easier to set up. Plus there is the added features that only mid and higher end security cams have.

I'd call spying on kids through laptop webcams a rare thing.
Security cams get pretty expensive too. Couldn't they have used a GPS instead of spying on the kids? You'd think they would be willing to spend a little extra money to avoid, you know, lawsuits for breaking a gazillion privacy laws.

[Dr. Evil]

I can see why this is good but also bad. Its good to make sure students aren't screwing around but bad because its an invasion of privacy. I'm on the fence on this issue.

[3pleT]

I can see why this is good but also bad. Its good to make sure students aren't screwing around but bad because its an invasion of privacy. I'm on the fence on this issue.

And the school staff has a right to know what their students are doing at home and do something about it... how exactly?

[Shinn Kamiyra]

This is a rather ambiguous situation, I have to say. According to the article, the webcam was activated because Robbins' parents had, supposedly, not paid a $55 insurance fee; however, even if we are to assume that that is the case, then I still believe a tentative line was crossed with respect to the sheer number of pictures taken and a lack of appropriate action on the school's part to inform the child and his parents of said activation.

As if all that weren't enough, I fail to understand why it wouldn't have been sufficient if the child had continued to bring the laptop in for regular affirmation by the school rather than this talk about an insurance fee; which, in my personal opinion, isn't sufficient cause for this kind of invasion of privacy.

Finally, as others here have already made clear, I too believe that a GPS tracking device would've been just as sufficient to keep track of their property rather than this webcam.

[Eris]

Regardless of whatever excuses they come up with, this is wrong. The ends do not justify the means.

[deep blue]

Wow, that`s disturbing. I think it`s wonderful that this school is lending out laptops to students, and I understand that they need to protect school property, but taking pictures of the students via webcam without them knowing in their own room is just too iffy. The argument that it violates privacy laws is sound - schools shouldn`t really impose itself on the private life of their students outside of the school itself. Sure, you can catch a student snorting coke in their room and you can notify their parents, but that`s life finding out some dirty secret if your spouse by reading their private journal. You catch them in a bad act, but the means to do it is no better. A GPS system, a manditory insurance policy in which students cannot have the laptop if it isn`t paid, a three strikes you`re out system, or whatever are other alternative means that probably won`t open a big can of worms like this method did.

[Ramona Flowers]

I thought this was gonna be about laptops that are within the school, and I was gonna say most of the schools lately have cameras everywhere anyway radda radda

But lawl, thats messed up. Is pedobear the principal?

[Memento Mori]

Assuming the laptops were in the kid's rooms, couldn't the staff be charged with viewing a sex crime if the kids unknowingly changed in front of the camera?

[Gero50]

I'd call spying on kids through laptop webcams a rare thing.
Security cams get pretty expensive too. Couldn't they have used a GPS instead of spying on the kids? You'd think they would be willing to spend a little extra money to avoid, you know, lawsuits for breaking a gazillion privacy laws.

Why would they need to when they can configure the ones on the laptops to start recording when they boot up. Often kids do not have the money to own their own laptops so they use the ones the school has to do their work. The It staff can configure these cameras to not only record once the notebooks bot into the OS and the drivers fr them are loaded. They can even make the device seem as it is not available to the more technology aware students. The can see the built in camera but most of them would not think to look for a device that is being hidden from any form of indexing by that user account on the domain. In fact the driver that are being loaded may not even be on that machine but rather they may be on a server stored on a hard disk with student data and user account information. With this way the account the student is using would still need the rights enabled on their account to even see the process in the task manager in Windows and the counterpart of that app in Mac OSX etc. The video the cameras are recording can even be configured to save out the video to a remote server where most staff of the schools are not even allowed to go.
So it s a very crafty and cost effective way to do this type of monitoring.

[Eris]

Of course, both this webcam silliness, and GPS tracking is completely pointless. The first thing a thief would do would be to wipe the harddrive (as the contents of the harddrive is quite the smoking gun). Which will clear out both webcam monitoring software and GPS tracking software.

[thcuteness]

This is pretty stupid it would have been better just to get GPS is no way shape or form in my opinion is taking constant picks with a webcam on kids ok.

[Wio]

The school shouldn't be giving out laptops at all, webcam or not. Why does no one have a problem with giving out unnecessary expensive equipment to public school students? I think it's ridiculous.

[Eris]

The school shouldn't be giving out laptops at all, webcam or not. Why does no one have a problem with giving out unnecessary expensive equipment to public school students? I think it's ridiculous.

Dunno, it's pretty much standard practice in Sweden. It's difficult to find a school that doesn't do this.

Of course, they don't give away the laptops, but rather lend them for the duration of the studies, so it's really no difference from having computer labs that everyone can access at any given time. In the long run, given that if you buy laptops in bulk, you get them for like $300-ish; over the course of a 3 year education, it really doesn't amount to very much. Really, all education is a form of investment. Except, this isn't in the form of books or blackboards, but in computers. The idea is that the cost of education is repaid in the work it allows the student to do once she has been education.

Let's face it: In today's world, reasonable computer skills are pretty much required to function in society.

[sa5m]

Why would they need to when they can configure the ones on the laptops to start recording when they boot up. Often kids do not have the money to own their own laptops so they use the ones the school has to do their work. The It staff can configure these cameras to not only record once the notebooks bot into the OS and the drivers fr them are loaded. They can even make the device seem as it is not available to the more technology aware students. The can see the built in camera but most of them would not think to look for a device that is being hidden from any form of indexing by that user account on the domain. In fact the driver that are being loaded may not even be on that machine but rather they may be on a server stored on a hard disk with student data and user account information. With this way the account the student is using would still need the rights enabled on their account to even see the process in the task manager in Windows and the counterpart of that app in Mac OSX etc. The video the cameras are recording can even be configured to save out the video to a remote server where most staff of the schools are not even allowed to go.
So it s a very crafty and cost effective way to do this type of monitoring.

With laptops these days, you can't tell if the camera is recording (unless there's a recording light, but that can easily be taken out). I'm just saying that GPS is an easier way of doing this without violating as many rights and without going through all that extra trouble of taking "screenshots" of people. So no, this is NOT a crafty and cost-effective way. It's actually quite stupid and expensive (hell to pay if the school loses the lawsuit. And the reputation of the school is damaged already too).

This also reminds me of when I was in 7th grade and we were given Palm Pilots to try for half the year. They better not have put cams in those. D<

[Wio]

Dunno, it's pretty much standard practice in Sweden. Of course, they don't give away the laptops, but rather lend them for the duration of the studies, so it's really no difference from having computer labs that everyone can access at any given time.

The difference is that computer labs are monitored and the desktops are not susceptible to being dropped and broken as easily. You can have 1 desktop to every 10 or 12 students and still have some not being used. Why? It's because most students have their own computers already.
Laptops in the classroom are just a total distraction. Everyone knows it.

Let's face it: In today's world, reasonable computer skills are pretty much required to function in society.

Computer illiterate youth: the non-existent tragedy.

[Eris]

The difference is that computer labs are monitored and the desktops are not susceptible to being dropped and broken as easily. You can have 1 desktop to every 10 or 12 students and still have some not being used. Why? It's because most students have their own computers already.

The problem is that not everyone does, some share a with 5 siblings and their mother. And not everyone has the same software installed. And not everyone has the same operating system installed. All this combined means that you really can't make any sort of homework assignments to be done on a computer. And computer labs aren't of any use either.

Laptops in the classroom are just a total distraction. Everyone knows it.

This is a pedagogical matter. Laptops in the classroom done wrong is terrible. Laptops in the classroom done correctly is helpful.

Computer illiterate youth: the non-existent tragedy.

The computer skills of youth are not the computer skills required in the workplace. Kids know how to install games and chat on aim. They know nothing about writing reports.

[Wio]

The problem is that not everyone does, some share a with 5 siblings and their mother. And not everyone has the same software installed. And not everyone has the same operating system installed. All this combined means that you really can't make any sort of homework assignments to be done on a computer. And computer labs aren't of any use either.

There's nothing wrong with computer labs or library computers for that matter. I know the lack of necessity because I went through school being assigned homework that required using a computer. I was able to complete many of the assignment using the computer lab and never truly needed my own personal computer to do them.

This is a pedagogical matter. Laptops in the classroom done wrong is terrible. Laptops in the classroom done correctly is helpful.

Give me a realistic example then. The only classes I had that truly merited a computer were about computers and computer programming.

The computer skills of youth are not the computer skills required in the workplace. Kids know how to install games and chat on aim. They know nothing about writing reports.

That's because their inability to write a report has nothing to do with their computer literacy.


But it's not just that laptops provide no significant benefits, it's their cost that's a problem. I'm so tired of always hearing teachers unions complain about low wages when the school district buys unnecessarily expensive equipment. If we lost a book, we'd have to pay a considerable amount of money to the school for that, whether it was stolen, damaged, or misplaced. Why would you want to give someone who can't afford a laptop to begin with a chance of being in that situation?

[poshyterra]

Ah yes. Now we are no longer allowed to bring our MacBooks home with us.

These stupid things are crawling all over my school. They're part of the "Classrooms of the Future". Instead of buying nicer sinks in the bathrooms and new band instruments and better books, we bought an entire lab of Mac desktops and about twelve MacBook lab stations with 30 computers each. Wio is correct here. They're of no help to us, they don't even work right half the time, they're a distraction, and the software on them isn't on anything else. I don't have iWeb at home, do you?

Back on topic, this does intrude into one's personal life, but then again you stole a freaking computer. I'm kinda on the fence about how to handle this one.

[Gero50]

Of course, both this webcam silliness, and GPS tracking is completely pointless. The first thing a thief would do would be to wipe the harddrive (as the contents of the harddrive is quite the smoking gun). Which will clear out both webcam monitoring software and GPS tracking software.

With laptops these days, you can't tell if the camera is recording (unless there's a recording light, but that can easily be taken out). I'm just saying that GPS is an easier way of doing this without violating as many rights and without going through all that extra trouble of taking "screenshots" of people. So no, this is NOT a crafty and cost-effective way. It's actually quite stupid and expensive (hell to pay if the school loses the lawsuit. And the reputation of the school is damaged already too).

This also reminds me of when I was in 7th grade and we were given Palm Pilots to try for half the year. They better not have put cams in those. D<

You could always install a software below the OS to make it impossible to reformat the drive without a password and while this could be cracked unless the person knows password types and their security levels inside and out odds are they won't go any farther then that. There is of course the method of wiping the hard disk clean of all it's data but most people would not know this. If the software is installed on a security chip on the motherboard which is unlikely but still possible the only way they could do anything about it is try to guess the password or inject a app through one of the main buses such as a USB port to boot the machine before the security settings are applied. I know my old high school had a program on all of their hard drives that would not allow a reformat to take place without a password.

As for the setup I described before. It is very cost effective because the schools most likely have a few different servers set up and if the laptops they buy already have web cams they saving moy by simply using the resources they already have. Having a file storage volume for just webcam footage would most likely be a costly addision to the domain but it could be done very cost effectively. If they know they have a little extra disk space to spare they may configure a few partitions on one of the servers they already hav to store only import data that has been gathered by the coms. This way if they have to show the police something all the have is what is most impotent the facts. Even if their saved footage is limited they could still have monitors to be dedicated for which the camera streaming to it is always active.

[sylvi]

If nothing is done about this, I'll hate the state and public schooling even more.

[Eris]

You could always install a software below the OS to make it impossible to reformat the drive without a password and while this could be cracked unless the person knows password types and their security levels inside and out odds are they won't go any farther then that.

Any sound operating system will move the stack pointer and re-write the interrupt table in the process of booting. So if you do get the computer to boot off a CD, you will be able to circumvent any program you have running "below the OS". And boot order is determined at a BIOS level, so no amount of software will help with that.

There is of course the method of wiping the hard disk clean of all it's data but most people would not know this.

Re-writing the partition table is plenty. After a partition wipe (also called a reformatting), anything that is left from the old partition is interpreted as unused data, and thus completely inert.

If the software is installed on a security chip on the motherboard which is unlikely but still possible the only way they could do anything about it is try to guess the password

Now you're just rambling.

or inject a app through one of the main buses such as a USB port to boot the machine before the security settings are applied.

I take that back, NOW you're rambling.

I know my old high school had a program on all of their hard drives that would not allow a reformat to take place without a password.

You don't provide enough information to give a specific answer, but I will tell you this: If you can write to the harddrive, you can reformat it.

[Gero50]

Any sound operating system will move the stack pointer and re-write the interrupt table in the process of booting. So if you do get the computer to boot off a CD, you will be able to circumvent any program you have running "below the OS". And boot order is determined at a BIOS level, so no amount of software will help with that.



Re-writing the partition table is plenty. After a partition wipe (also called a reformatting), anything that is left from the old partition is interpreted as unused data, and thus completely inert.



Now you're just rambling.



I take that back, NOW you're rambling.



You don't provide enough information to give a specific answer, but I will tell you this: If you can write to the harddrive, you can reformat it.

I just wanted to make my point clear because it did not seem like he was understanding. I know that you can I was just giving some examples of ways to prevent it because that is wha a company or a school would set in place.