Regarding Future SOTWs

[Vintniv]

ATTENTION



Regarding all future Signature of the Week Competitions, they will be officially canceled. The reason for this is because it has recently come to my attention that some of the competitions have become unfair to those who enter. AKA, cheating.

I had had my suspicions for some time, until I received an anonymous PM from a user that basically told me that there were discussions being held on the basis of which signatures to, and not to, vote for. Regarding this, I took it upon myself to test this theory in a few competitions.

After over viewing many former and recent competitions, it came to my attention that some very low quality signatures were winning competitions against very high quality signatures. Another thing I noticed was how many votes were mere copies of other votes, repeating words and phrases on the basis of why they felt an entry deserved to win.


Given this, the SOTW is canceled until I determine a ‘fair’ way of hosting this and other contests (the BOTM, WOTM, and DOTM; which may have also become unfair). I do not want to create a contest in which people are not allowed to vote, but it appears that at this point I must create a board of Judges in order to choose instead of regular members.


On my own note, I would just like to mention that this will in no way make a person look any more skilled in terms of signature just by winning this competition. It will also run across as an insult to anyone who thinks of entering, to never enter ever again if they are only going to lose over and over.

[Tranquiose]

I do agree but who will be the judges? what if the judges would do the same.
but nice explanation.

[Light Buster]

I do agree but who will be the judges? what if the judges would do the same.
but nice explanation.

Oh, don't worry. Serated will know. It's good to hear about what's happening here. Cheaters will never prosper.

[Vintniv]

I do agree but who will be the judges? what if the judges would do the same.
but nice explanation.

At this moment, its possibly going to be a handful of the Moderators, maybe some members; but they wouldnt be allowed to enter the contest ever. I am not sure at the moment, I would LOVE to just continue the simple task of letting you guys be the judges.

Oh, don't worry. Serated will know. It's good to hear about what's happening here. Cheaters will never prosper.

You give me way too much credit.

[Bulf]

I have an idea. Couldn't we have the staff, and the people who enter it judges? Although that would call for the votes to not be anonymous....and they could still cheat. So nvm.Or couldn't an admin check the PMs, and see who was doing the cheating? That way we could have public polls, and you could just not count their votes? Either way, I hate to see this canceled D:

[Daenerys]

The way I used to hold the signature/avatar voting was having people PM me, so votes were private.

I dont like the idea of users not being able to be judges, or only letting mods/select users be judges but not able to enter the contest.

We always had a "Do not vote for yourself, and do not tell people to vote for you" rule anyway, so if they were caught doing it, their signature would be removed from the contest.

If people are writing the same thing on why they're voting for a signature, then discount all similar votes. Although that's still unfair, because if I like the text and that's IT on a sig, then I'm going to say so.

I don't recall ever seeing it said "you may not discuss the submissions in chat". I've seen it discussed in chat, and I've even participated in the discussions, but they've never been "Vote for this signature over this one." It's been "I can't decide which one to vote for! They're all so great! I like this one for x reasons, but I like this one more I think!" Hell, me and teed were doing that a few contests ago because I seriously could not decide which of the 3 I liked the most I wanted to vote for. In the end I decided to vote for the one that had the nicest font.

[GameGeeks]

Why not just ban the people who do that from voting? That way members still decide and we get more quality votes? Like the poster above me said, ignore carbon copy votes but if votes are similar, like say two people really like one sig's text then give them the benefit of the doubt until you see a pattern with them. I personally don't like judges and think things should be decided by the people, in this case members. Though I am curious by what you mean by low quality sigs? I'll look through past tournaments but would still like to hear your opinion on what's considered low quality. If you mean beginner type sigs why not hold two tiers of SOTW? One for the more professional sigs and one for the beginners? That way people starting out can have some fun and learn while those who have been doing it for a while can still have some healthy competition. People could just submit the sigs to you directly and you decided which one it belongs in.

[Vintniv]

@Hyphen.


The reason I never did polls in the beginning is because you didnt have to be registered on the forum into to vote in a poll. Also, because people could do it so anonymously that you could vote your own signature while logged off, and go to say your school or a library and vote again from there, meant you could infinitely vote your own signature into victory.



@Gaga

I had a rule for people not voting for themselves or having people vote for you. But, much like all of my other rules; it seems to have gone unnoticed. Given that you have discussed voting not on the basis of who not to vote for doesnt mean that others have not.

But on my own note, I never vote for signatures on the basis of whether or not the font looks good.


@GameGeeks

If I could do that, I would. But due to the fact that some one brought up the concept of using the Private Chat system in AF chat defeats the purpose. Another thing is the usage of other private systems such as AIM or MSN. We cant really track that.


I do like the idea of dividing the SOTW between skilled, and rookie though, but even then I question whether or not people might get touchy on my own judgment on what I think is good versus not. Unless everyone wants me to do that?

[GameGeeks]

True about messengers, but as the people who do it get banned it should eventually stop happening if you see a trend, either copy and pasted responses or voting for lower quality sigs.

As for judgment on quality, yeah, you might face scrutiny for it, but as not only a mod but the host of the SOTW you have to deal with it. You could get a group of judges for that decision though. But winners should be chosen by the members though.

[FluffyDango]

Suprise that people are so desperate to win a SOTW that they actually discuss with others who to vote for, pathetic.

On my own note, I would just like to mention that this will in no way make a person look any more skilled in terms of signature just by winning this competition. It will also run across as an insult to anyone who thinks of entering, to never enter ever again if they are only going to lose over and over.

Agree.

[GameGeeks]

Not all do that. Some like LG discuss the fact that they can't pick one. Which is completely different from the problem Serated is talking about.

[.Tatty.]

If people have an urge to discuss the entries in chat why not have an official discussion thread were the discussions about the entries can be monitored and if someone breaks the rules in any way its a hell of a lot more easier to detect.

If i'm frank, you could never stamp out cheating on any level, just try and find ways to reduce the chance of it if anything. But even with that discussion thread you can bet there will be talks in chat and on messengers about entries because some people are very thick headed. But i think you've made the right call here.

[FluffyDango]

Not all do that. Some like LG discuss the fact that they can't pick one. Which is completely different from the problem Serated is talking about.

I didn`t talk about everyone of course, I obviously were talking about the ones that discuss it :P

[Daenerys]

That's my point Serated. If I have a hard time decided what signature I like best, I start nitpicking small things, placement of text, coloring of the signature. There's been 2 contests I can remember vividly where I liked two signatures so much, but I went with the one that had the better text.

I just don't see HOW you notice people are "cheating". Can you post straight up examples of people posting similar replies? At this point in the game, you're canceling an image contest A LOT OF PEOPLE enjoy, so calling out 1-3 people for cheating or questionable voting isn't really going to matter in the long run if we can figure out a new way of voting, or punish those who are cheating.

[Balance]

We always had a "Do not vote for yourself, and do not tell people to vote for you" rule anyway, so if they were caught doing it, their signature would be removed from the contest.

If you were caught. Obviously Serated hasn't caught anyone because he had his trust in everyone it seems.

I don't recall ever seeing it said "you may not discuss the submissions in chat". I've seen it discussed in chat

That's not what Serated was saying. He was saying that he had suspicions on what to vote for and what not to vote for in the chat.

If you mean beginner type sigs why not hold two tiers of SOTW? One for the more professional sigs and one for the beginners? That way people starting out can have some fun and learn while those who have been doing it for a while can still have some healthy competition. People could just submit the sigs to you directly and you decided which one it belongs in.

That actually sounds like a good idea.

...why not have an official discussion thread were the discussions about the entries can be monitored and if someone breaks the rules in any way its a hell of a lot more easier to detect.

...But even with that discussion thread you can bet there will be talks in chat and on messengers about entries...

To be honest, I don't think there's any real way to moderate that in any way as you have stated.

[Mikahcho]

I have a small suggestion...

I've already posted a suggestion to Serated, but here's a different one...

I'm part of a small anime forum, and seriously, it is THE friendliest forum ever! I don't mean to make this forum sound bad though, this one is much more successful (:
But what I'm proposing is that you can easily draw up an agreement with the forum. Send me, or another member on that forum, the sigs, we can make a voting topic, and only those we trust will have their vote counted.

The reasons that this approach will work:

-The community on this forum isn't as big as this one. The relationships between the forum members is VERY deep, so we know exactly who can and who can't vote fairly.
-The risk of an unfair vote is practically impossible. Votes from new members wouldn't be counted.
-If this sites name and URL is announced each time a voting session takes place, members from our site will have the chance to join your site, and I'm sure similiar will happen for our site. Beneficial for both sites.
-It will be the start of a new relationship, where we can exchange GFX tips and tricks and generally get along.
-We'll be doing the grunt work, all you have to do is make and send the sigs over, we'll do the rest. Ofcourse, you can have the link to the voting page, to see how it's all going.

The site I'm talking about isn't mine. I'm not giving you this idea to raise the popularity of the site. It may be hard to believe, but I'm just interested in helping you guys out.

Whatd'cha think? I'm not gonna post the forum now, it'd seem lime I'm advertising haha! I can pm it to you, Serated, if you wish. I know the forum I'm speaking of would be delighted to help (:

I think this is a good oppurtinity for all of us.

[FluffyDango]

I just don't see HOW you notice people are "cheating". Can you post straight up examples of people posting similar replies? At this point in the game, you're canceling an image contest A LOT OF PEOPLE enjoy, so calling out 1-3 people for cheating or questionable voting isn't really going to matter in the long run if we can figure out a new way of voting, or punish those who are cheating.

There is not really many people enjoying the SOTW on this site.
On full GFX forums the SOTW`s have over 15-20 Entries, then it`s fun and hard to vote becaus many of them are on a high level.
On this site there is at most 8 entries.

Edit: Well if you count everyone that votes, ok there is many.
But it`s more fun if alot of people enters too.

[Mikahcho]

You could always try going for a SOTM contest instead.

[.Tatty.]

You say that Des,

But i've failed to see an entry from yourself. Don't preach about it if your not going to do it yourself. :/

Also i like this idea of two tier competitions.

[GameGeeks]

Someone mentioned having admins scanning PMs. I'm against that for two reasons. The first is it's an invasion of privacy. Second that's a little overboard for something like SOTW. I'm fin with chat admins/moderators scanning chat for such talk or looking through the logs. That's because everything said there is said publicly, so it's fair game in my opinion.

[Mikahcho]

Using a two tier system won't get rid of the problem. It'd only make the problem harder to notice.

Think about it. Up until now, you can tell if someone may be cheating, because one sig is bad, whilst the other is good. If people keep voting for the bad one, something may seem fishy.

But when using a two tier system, both sigs will be of similiar skill. So if people secretly agreed to vote for a sig, you wouldn't be able to realize very easily.

Instead of treating the illness, you'd just be covering up the symptoms!

[GameGeeks]

My intention of suggesting the two tier system wasn't to fix the problem. It was to give those starting out in sig making a competition that they'd have a chance of winning. It had nothing to do with the current problem other then the problem giving me the idea about it.

[Mikahcho]

Oh, sorry GameGeek, my mistake. But unless this problem is cleared, that two Tier system may be worthless, unfair voting would continue.

But it's a good idea, in regards to fair competition (:

[FluffyDango]

You say that Des,

But i've failed to see an entry from yourself. Don't preach about it if your not going to do it yourself. :/

Also i like this idea of two tier competitions.

I entered the Vertical themed SOTW, the one with the Aion extraction from Sera

[Daenerys]

If he hasn't caught anyone, then he has no reason to stop the contests, because no one is cheating.

Honestly, I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to the moderator, if you are a moderator, please log into your name, and provide me with the answers I am seeking. Oh, you aren't? Then how is it possible you know what goes on behind the scenes here?