Does anyone else...?

[ChernobylSunrise]

Does anyone else find that ultimately, the anime-style of drawing is both over-used and vastly limits a person's creative potential? At some point, people have to realize that women don't actually look like that and not all men have hair that looks like K2. Not to mention that it's now showing up in American media; it's just kind of stupid and dated looking. Too many people out there seem to think that being able to draw people with large eyes and pointy chins makes them a "artist". I had a floor mate that seemed to think that half the crap on deviant art was better than the art created by Hieronymus Bosch's work. I challenge you people to think and work outside the box.

[Annie Hall]

While I enjoy anime art, and find it really interesting it's certainly not "fine art".
It's nothing I'd pay more than 5 dollars for, and it would have to be something astounding to get 5 bucks out of me.
Personally, drawing anime ultimately made it easier for me to gateway into more realistic stuff. Too many people get stuck in it though, that's for sure.

[Inamorata]

Does anyone else find that ultimately, the anime-style of drawing is both over-used and vastly limits a person's creative potential? At some point, people have to realize that women don't actually look like that and not all men have hair that looks like K2. Not to mention that it's now showing up in American media; it's just kind of stupid and dated looking. Too many people out there seem to think that being able to draw people with large eyes and pointy chins makes them a "artist". I had a floor mate that seemed to think that half the crap on deviant art was better than the art created by Hieronymus Bosch's work. I challenge you people to think and work outside the box.

You seem like you believe you know how art should be. Who cares if there are people out there that consider large eyes and pointed chins art. Art can be anything and everything.. Art is about expressing one's ability to create. It does not matter what it is, just how it makes you feel. Stop being such a critic it makes you seem bitter. Grow up and pop that ego of yours.

[ChernobylSunrise]

You seem like you believe you know how art should be. Who cares if there are people out there that consider large eyes and pointed chins art. Art can be anything and everything.. Art is about expressing one's ability to create. It does not matter what it is, just how it makes you feel. Stop being such a critic it makes you seem bitter. Grow up and pop that ego of yours.

And your words make you seem overly-hostile and prone a knee-jerk reaction due to inner insecurities. Look, I can play the game too. Considering that one of my degrees is in Art History, I do know what art is.

[Inamorata]

And your words make you seem overly-hostile and prone a knee-jerk reaction due to inner insecurities. Look, I can play the game too. Considering that one of my degrees is in Art History, I do know what art is.

Oh yes, I am very hostile.. o_O um but the knee jerk thing due to inner
insecurities you may need to further explain. I can't see how my opinion
on what art is has anything to do with my insecurities. Plus I felt very
confident in stating my opinion. ^.~ So that there assures you I have
a good handle on what I have been stating. Oh and congrats on your
degrees. o.o;

[brokenORCHID]

What about the 'No ghost just a shell' exhibit.

The problem with all forms of art is when people are afraid to try something they criticise others for doing it.

Bottom line is that it is widely considered artistic and yes it is very over used.With that said the people who try to push the boundaries of animation are without question artist but the average 'Deviantartist' is not(This refers solely to those who use phcs/painterx etc to copy someones work rather than make create their own)

PS; I have no gripe with digital artist who use programs such as these.

[Annie Hall]

I wonder if you've ever heard of "art critics" they get paid to be critical.

Anywho I think you certainly have to draw a line between what is art and what isn't.
For example, if someone throws paint on a canvas with no intention, that isn't art. It's the result of boredum and a lack of creation. Jackson Pollock, that's a different story.

And from a skill standpoint anime is a lot easier than more realistic things.

[Inamorata]

I wonder if you've ever heard of "art critics" they get paid to be critical.

Anywho I think you certainly have to draw a line between what is art and what isn't.
For example, if someone throws paint on a canvas with no intention, that isn't art. It's the result of boredum and a lack of creation. Jackson Pollock, that's a different story.

And from a skill standpoint anime is a lot easier than more realistic things.

I hate to disappoint you but not everyone believes there is a line that separates what is art and what it is not.
Everyone is different and sees the world in different ways. Some share more common interests then
others, but that does not mean everyone does. Its okay to like something that is not seemingly realistic to another individual's perspective. Art can be anything. So to think you know this so called line is in fact a figment of your imagination. hey and that too can be considered as some form of art.

[*Tsuki*]

Does anyone else find that ultimately, the anime-style of drawing is both over-used and vastly limits a person's creative potential? At some point, people have to realize that women don't actually look like that and not all men have hair that looks like K2. Not to mention that it's now showing up in American media; it's just kind of stupid and dated looking. Too many people out there seem to think that being able to draw people with large eyes and pointy chins makes them a "artist". I had a floor mate that seemed to think that half the crap on deviant art was better than the art created by Hieronymus Bosch's work. I challenge you people to think and work outside the box.

*thinks* Yea, I've noticed that a lot on Cartoon network. =P
But, I think it's still art. I think that part of art is being able to tell a story with it. I don't like comparing art because people are different with how they show it. Of course, I do admit that a lot of it starts to look the same after a while. What puts it apart is the story behind it (or the story it tells if you want to put it that way) and it's creator. *shrugs* Of course, who am I to say?

[Annie Hall]

Well in my humble opinion, people who lack the ability to discern between existence, boredum, and art, tend to be completely immature :/

Btw don't pull that "figment of your imagination" psuedo-philosophical garbage on me please? It's insulting.


Definition of art : the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.

[Inamorata]

Well in my humble opinion, people who lack the ability to discern between existence, boredum, and art, tend to be completely immature :/

Btw don't pull that "figment of your imagination" psuedo-philosophical garbage on me please? It's insulting.


Definition of art : the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.

okay and anime does not fall into that category?

[Annie Hall]

It really depends on the anime.

[Yew Neek™]

i think it is over used in the saturday morning american kid cartoon sense of it.

[GaarasPuddingLover]

personally, im tired of going onto da and looking at horribly recreated anime wannabe pieces

its a frigging joke, sure it may be considered art but it for the most part is far from creative since the style has been so over done to the point of it being "just make it look cute or something and it will sell"

if you look at older western cartoons, you can pick out all sorts of diversities and differences in style
when you look at anime, most of it is rehashed style that simply lacks any innovation or willing to break free of the mold it's established. subtle differences sure, but nothing ground breaking

i want individuality and emotion put into artwork, thank you very much

[jam03]

ohh!it so amazing this forum it so creative the paste cut of the cartoon or anime is so nice the conpetitor is normal who is the best one no anyone else almost the same good idea

[Sr Machinehead]

truth is all you need to be an artist now is the right degree, a good story for the piece, and a good name. Ive seen some stuff that's been passed as art and i wouldn't pay more than ten bucks for it. but then again I'm talking about abstract art and i never really cared for it in the first place. So just thought id put my opinion out there.

[Annie Hall]

I don't know anyone who is "afraid" to try drawing anime, in comparison to realism and surrealism even, it's a piece of cake. IF any type of "anime" could be considered art, it would be comics like marvel and dc, since they are the most detailed I've seen.

Also, the insecurity comment that was made? well, I'm willing to bet it's valid. Most people who would defend anime as an art are those who draw it themselves, they are insecure about having their talents demeaned. :/ So it makes sense.

[lijon]

I don't know anyone who is "afraid" to try drawing anime, in comparison to realism and surrealism even, it's a piece of cake. IF any type of "anime" could be considered art, it would be comics like marvel and dc, since they are the most detailed I've seen.

Also, the insecurity comment that was made? well, I'm willing to bet it's valid. Most people who would defend anime as an art are those who draw it themselves, they are insecure about having their talents demeaned. :/ So it makes sense.

Insecurities... seriously... I would rather put it as pride. Anime is art. Then again you might want to give your definition of "anime". Lucky Star and such... srsly... I'd puke. But it doesn't mean the artists didn't put their heart and soul into it. Shouldn't their work be respected instead of shoved aside? If you look at Jigoku Shoujo, every scene is art, it's detailed, well-thought out, flows well and simply breathtaking if you looked at it in the right way. There're elements from traditional art and many other categories. So you're saying that isn't art either? imo that wouldn't be "making anime artists insecure". That would just be "being a jerk and stepping on someone else's hard work". And that bull about "I won't pay 5 bucks for that art", I'd just say you don't appreciate art enough to see its worth. Why don't you try it out yourself? see if it's really that "easy". It's an insult to any one who's serious about drawing anime. Blaming it on our supposed "insecurities", you're just pushing your own views onto us and assuming you're omnipotent enough to know what goes on in our brains. Not cool.

[Annie Hall]

And that bull about "I won't pay 5 bucks for that art", I'd just say you don't appreciate art enough to see its worth. Why don't you try it out yourself? see if it's really that "easy".

Awe, you're so adorable.
I wouldn't make unfounded accusations like that.
I used to draw Anime religiously, it was when I tried to switch over to realism (and surrealism) that I realized how EASY Anime was in comparison.

And I appreciate art SO much that I'm very picky about what I consider to be art :/ If I didn't appreciate it, I'd just be some ignorant person walking around saying "Oh if it's drawn on paper, it's ART!"

[lijon]

Awe, you're so adorable.
I wouldn't make unfounded accusations like that.
I used to draw Anime religiously, it was when I tried to switch over to realism (and surrealism) that I realized how EASY Anime was in comparison.

And I appreciate art SO much that I'm very picky about what I consider to be art :/ If I didn't appreciate it, I'd just be some ignorant person walking around saying "Oh if it's drawn on paper, it's ART!"

And again, state your definition of anime, your style in anime. Perhaps just give me convincing evidence of your "level" to allow you to make such statements. Drawing anime religiously does not mean you understand its variations. Hayao Miyazaki brings realism into his anime, through backgrounds and details in character construction. There is also a level of surrealism in his "nightmare" scenes. Perhaps you do not understand these elements take an effort to be incorperated into anime, into an individual style? In the end, I define such art, still, as anime. Same as more traditional methods, the techniques aren't unknown to anime artists and often used. And yet techniques in anime are rarely/ never used in realism. Perhaps more clearly... traditional realism. There is clearly a blur in boundaries of these categories. And yet you claim that realism should be harder? When you quite obviously, did not meet realism/surrealism at the same time as anime? Must it be considered inferior because it was an earlier choice in your stage of life, that you possibly never stretched to its full extent? After your reply I am quite sure you're someone who appreciates art as a (one sided) fellow artist, but you would deny me being one worthy of such a title as an equal(suit yourself)? However I can firmly say that we are at a different level in the arguement. I believe that when a person's skill level reaches a certain stage the arguement would transcend concepts such as "good and bad" art. Indeed being "picky" allows identification of more experienced/developed styles. In the end it does not contribute any evidence to level of difficulty of a style in its whole, rather a personal choice/taste. So in fact, your arguement is at best, brushing on the surface of what you see as art. As those who've studied art history, I'm sure they'd teach you somewhere that art is always in the process of evolution. To brush aside such a process as trivial or simple is simply the arrogance of the short-sighted. Though to be sure, I am not identifying anyone as such... as of yet.

On a side note here:
Your sarcasm aims to hurt, and such things are unpleasant and ugly. Please refrain from it. I believe you don't need to resort to such method to make a point.

[The Grey Crane]

It's not about the styles per se, but the techniques, as said by this statement:

Same as more traditional methods, the techniques aren't unknown to anime artists and often used. And yet techniques in anime are rarely/ never used in realism. Perhaps more clearly... traditional realism.

Anime is anime, realism is realism, surrealism is surrealism, tenebrism is tenebrism, fauvism is fauvism, yadda yadda yadda. All the art styles/movements has their own defining characteristics that sets them apart from the rest. You'll see stuff in anime which you'll never see in realism, or any other style, and of course vice-versa.

But as seen in your statement, (shall I repeat it again?) traditional methods aren't unknown to anime artists and often used. And yet techniques in anime are rarely/never used in realism. Sure, you'll never see anime identifiers in realism (not unless someone painted a realistic scene which contains anime objects in the background), those unique obvious traits. But then again, you'll never gonna see otherwise too, not unless in special cases like what I've previously mentioned. Everything else beside the identifiers? I say most of them are covered, done by both sides, used and seen in both styles. That's what I'm trying to point out.

As an add-on:

Yes, by deconstructing the style, anime is INDEED a branch-off just like the other "ism's", but anime is anime. Don't get the wrong notion that I see anime as part-realism, part-surreal, part-naive, and what not. If that's the case, then you shouldn't have seen me use the term "anime/manga style", same goes for the other styles.

[naotavespaboy]

Does it really matter if its art or not? As long as its entertaining, tells a half way decent story and looks o.k I'd say it dosen't really matter.

Anyway art is in the eye of the beholder. I'd say manga is more art then half the rubbish that turns up at the Turner prize (sawn in half cows. Thats not really art now is it?). However compared to a Van Gogh or other old masters it isn't. This is just my opinion but I like manga not just for the drawing but the stories and characters.

[Diocletian]

Does it really matter if its art or not? As long as its entertaining, tells a half way decent story and looks o.k I'd say it dosen't really matter.

Anyway art is in the eye of the beholder. I'd say manga is more art then half the rubbish that turns up at the Turner prize (sawn in half cows. Thats not really art now is it?). However compared to a Van Gogh or other old masters it isn't. This is just my opinion but I like manga not just for the drawing but the stories and characters.

You're much too easy to please. It's that attitude that lets people believe that their comics/drawings are any good.

[Sr Machinehead]

Well id agree with him. Anime wasn't made to be considered art. it was made to entertain. also art is all based on public and personal opinion. i say let people believe their drawings are good.

[The Grey Crane]

I respect anime/manga art. I respect people who do it, and those who strive to perfect such an art form. However, what I don't like is the fact that the style have become a sorry excuse for people who dare call themselves artists even if they lack what it takes to even be one, or to even create a decent manga/anime-influenced artwork.

For a manga artist (not to say all of them), it must be flattering, or insulting to be copied. Much worse, it would be terribly demeaning for one Japanese artist that works his butt round the clock to perfect his art style just for it to be called "pathetic" by many people all over the world, not because it is... but because there are many wannabes who give the style a bad name by doing utterly pathetic renditions of it.

Fan art is fan art, copy all you want, just make sure you're giving justice to the artist, to the art work, the character, the style, and other what nots of what you're copying. With the style's skyrocketing popularity over the past few years, there's no doubt that many will try to jump into its bandwagon. Some of them capable, some of them potentially capable, some of them terribly NOT.

And now i come back to what I've said earlier: "the style have become a sorry excuse..."

You see, manga artists are trained folks. Heavily stylized their art may be, they are still masters of anatomy, facial expressions, gestures, and many other things.. and this is very evident on their works. If you can draw a cute magical girl or a pretty bishonen, does it mean you're TECHNICALLY equal with those artists? No. Does it mean you can call yourself an artist of the manga/anime style? No. Does it mean you have what it takes? No.

Anime/manga isn't just about shimmering eyes and vibrant hair colors my friends. It's just as technically sound as the western comic styles that it has often been compared to.

And yes, there's a line that separates what art and what isn't BUT there are two kinds of people who think otherwise:

1. Innovators

2. Wannabes