Christianity vs Atheism Round 1

[Cobra Commander]

Did you read my post?

You can't verify the will of God. It's all about personal belief.

According to Christianity, God gave Man free will. As in, free will to live as he pleases. There is no mandate that Man must follow God, only that there may be consequences for it.

[Teddy2116]

I see this getting out of hand at some point.

So let just leave it at this:

BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT JUST AS LONG AS YOU BELIEVE ITS THE TRUTH AND NOT TRY TO FORCE OTHERS TO BELIEVE IN WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN.

[Cobra Commander]

these sorts of threads always do.

it's almost safer to talk about politics.

[Teddy2116]

these sorts of threads always do.

it's almost safer to talk about politics.

Sad to say but i think you're right

Politics, Religion and Women are the things that cause men to fight *sigh sigh*

[Doctor One]

First off. These two ideas are not opposite forces.
Atheism is the absence of the belief of a supernatural force.
It's opposite is religion, all of them.
Christianity has no opposite.
-
Second off, you only made baseless statements with no arguments to back them up. It is arrogant people like you who make everyone believe that people who don't believe in God are immature, stubborn, morons.
You obviously didn't post this for debate; you just think that your beliefs are important enough for everyone to know about.

[Takizawa]

BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT JUST AS LONG AS YOU BELIEVE ITS THE TRUTH AND NOT TRY TO FORCE OTHERS TO BELIEVE IN WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN.

Thats the key part I think. As long as we dont try to force each other to believe one way or another, it really doesnt matter who believes what. Its too bad people judge and get judged based on their beliefs.

[Teddy2116]

First off. These two ideas are not opposite forces.
Atheism is the absence of the belief of a supernatural force.
It's opposite is religion, all of them.
Christianity has no opposite.
-
Second off, you only made baseless statements with no arguments to back them up. It is arrogant people like you who make everyone believe that people who don't believe in God are immature, stubborn, morons.
You obviously didn't post this for debate; you just think that your beliefs are important enough for everyone to know about.

DUDE chill out, I doubt he meant it like that. But anyway lets all just get along and debate about this (if possible)

[Lordwindowlicker]

I can't believe in something that is based entirely around belief without proof.

I'll start going to church when God comes down from heaven wearing a purple velvet suit, and delivers me a pizza.. oh and he has to do a little dance.

[Teddy2116]

I can't believe in something that is based entirely around belief without proof.

I'll start going to church when God comes down from heaven wearing a purple velvet suit, and delivers me a pizza.. oh and he has to do a little dance.

LMAO, I like that logic

[Takizawa]

First off. These two ideas are not opposite forces.
Atheism is the absence of the belief of a supernatural force.
It's opposite is religion, all of them.
Christianity has no opposite.
-
Second off, you only made baseless statements with no arguments to back them up. It is arrogant people like you who make everyone believe that people who don't believe in God are immature, stubborn, morons.
You obviously didn't post this for debate; you just think that your beliefs are important enough for everyone to know about.

I dont understand who made these baseless statements making everyone believe that people who don't believe in God are immature, stubborn morons.

As far as I can tell, so far in this thread, all statements were made against God or Religion, not for it. So either you meant to say something else or need to re-read this thread.

[Doctor One]

I dont understand who made these baseless statements making everyone believe that people who don't believe in God are immature, stubborn morons.

As far as I can tell, so far in this thread, all statements were made against God or Religion, not for it. So either you meant to say something else or need to re-read this thread.

The first post in this thread. That's all my post was responding to.

[Akatsuki_Gurl]

Personally, I don't believe in God. I have had no proof that has given me a reason to believe. But I respect others who do believe in God. I have many friends who do. However, me myself am Wiccan.

I have no problem with Religion. If you believe its true and don't shove it down someone's throat, then that's fine. Besides, everyone is free to believe in whatever they wish to believe in.

[Takizawa]

The first post in this thread. That's all my post was responding to.

Very well then. Sounds fair enough. May I just suggest quoting someone next time so this misunderstanding doesn't happen again XD. Sorry again.

[Doctor One]

Very well then. Sounds fair enough. May I just suggest quoting someone next time so this misunderstanding doesn't happen again XD. Sorry again.

Oh the quote button! XD EUREKA!

[k-kid]

First off. These two ideas are not opposite forces.
Atheism is the absence of the belief of a supernatural force.
It's opposite is religion, all of them.
Christianity has no opposite.
-
Second off, you only made baseless statements with no arguments to back them up. It is arrogant people like you who make everyone believe that people who don't believe in God are immature, stubborn, morons.
You obviously didn't post this for debate; you just think that your beliefs are important enough for everyone to know about.

My statements are based on opinion as are all religious/nonreligious statements(duh).
And if Atheism's opposite is all other religions, then that would make Christianity's opposite atheism. That's like saying christianity isn't a religion.



Obviously you need to reread my post.

ok, first...
*My text in red corresponds with your text in red.*
Arrogant?
Immature?
Stubborn?
Moronic?
Ignorance must be bliss for you, to go around calling out people like that.
Grow up and stop flaming.

Ok, second..
*My text in grey corresponds to your text in gray.*
Are you so insecure that you try to shift the focus away from yourself and point out what others might be doing wrong? What exactly have you done recently that presents a postitive debate environment?
As far as I'm concerned, you're one of those trolls.

Let me rephrase that...
I post a thread about religious affairs and all of the sudden I'm arrogant and trying to draw attention to my self?

0.o

I posted this thread to have a debate, A DEBATE YES THAT'S RIGHT GO LEARN THE DEFINITION, on religious affairs, not to have some punk start throwing insults left and right and then blaming other's views and opinion's on me just because I decided to post a topic that made you go cry to mommy.

SUCK IT UP OR GET OVER IT.
(no offense intended though I am a bit upset)

You can:
Blame
Flame
Bad Rep(Though I'd prefer you'd not)
And even make totally rude and immature insults about me....

But see if I care. I think I have better things to do than retaliate(which I did and now feel a bit jerkish but oh well).


(forgive a lack of cleverness in this post, I'm feeling a bit lethargic today.)

[Teddy2116]

Come on now lets all just have some cookies and get along

[BestFly]

There are actually several views that Christians have on prayer and the will of God and whatnot. Prayer is always the same in it's most basic form but it's why and how its answered which is the difference.

One theory is that any prayer that gets answered is because God wanted to do it anyways. This is not to say that the prayer was not needed, however it might have been unavoidable.

The other theory is that prayer can actually alter (to an extent) the twisting line that God is drawing. However, the way it's done might not ever be seen. Side one has problems with this because it takes away from the power of God, and side 2 has problems with one because it takes away from Free will.

It's true the problem with prayer is that someone can't just go "So God was it you, or just soemthign that happened?" and actually get an answer. You need to use something besides not find in the answer to prayer.

I'd have to disagree with that. Because the morals they are teaching are dogmatic morals. And morals are different for different people. Not all people are the same. And all religion does is enforce one moral rule down your throat and expect you to follow them. They don't allow you to modify the moral rule to your personal belief.

Not really, this is some crap that they started teaching because of discrimnation problems and other things like that. I'm going to say I think killing people just because I want to is perfectly fine. That's what I believe and you can't do anything about it because that's my moral stance. Now, if you wanted to kill me that would be fine because my moral stance is that of killing is ok. However, if your moral stance is that killing is not ok then both of us are right and wrong at the same time. This obviously can not happen.

Now also, what would be the point if religion let you use your own moral code for everything? Why would you even believe in the religion at all? That's like joining the police squad, but not actually having to conform to the rules. (Chaotic Good allignment for you D&D people)

Now the problem I have with atheism is that I think it's much harder to believe there is no God then there is to belief there is a God.


And for you Agnostics.

isin't saying that we can't know... techincally knowing something?

[Lordwindowlicker]

Now the problem I have with atheism is that I think it's much harder to believe there is no God then there is to belief there is a God.

Not at all. I've never seen any proof that there is a god beyond a dusty old book that people hold above their heads.. and a culture of "believe what we say, because we say so". Sorry, that's not good enough for me.

[BestFly]

Not at all. I've never seen any proof that there is a god beyond a dusty old book that people hold above their heads.. and a culture of "believe what we say, because we say so". Sorry, that's not good enough for me.

I haven't seen any proof there is no God either.

On this note. I have no proof that the Boogie man exists, but I have no proof he dosen't exist. Technically all things made up might exist and we might not know it, but we agree to assume that they do not exist.

[Lordwindowlicker]

That's backwards logic. There is proof in the science.. proof in what we already know about how our world works. You want to know how that tree grows? I'm sure there are plenty of people who can give you an hour lesson on it. There is absolutely no proof in the fact that there is an invisible man in the sky dictating how the universe works.

We know that dinosaurs exist because we have actual physical proof. We know that Jesus was a real person, because we apparently have hystorical evidence to back it up. That doesn't mean he wasn't anything other than an idealistic whacko who heard voices.

The proof comes in two flavors.
A: There is no proof that a god exists.
B: There is no logic in that belief.

Like I said.. the moment you give me a single shred of evidence to say that there is a god, I'll go to church for the rest of my life. Until that time, I'm very happy thinking it's a load of bupkis.

[BestFly]

The problem is any proof or evidence can be "explained" by chance or something of that nature. While it happens, it's very rare that someone is "raised from the dead" or "suddenly cured" or something like that. it's like if everyone prayed for the lottery, did God answer someones prayer? Or did it just happen type thing.

but for the sake of making it interesting

since your resigned to say that God does not exist then you are also resigned to the cosmic lottery. As you know the earth is in the perfect spot for life. You might say that there are several places where this could happen, and this might be true.. but really the earth is..

1. The correct distance from the sun so we don't burn or freeze.
2. The right size to maintain gravity and an atmosphere.
3. Has a large moon (scientists have generally concluded that a large moon is required for life on a planet)
4. The sun is the right type of sun and the right size to support life.
5. We are in the correct type of galaxy (Spiral)
6. We are in the correct part of the galaxy (in an area where there is not a lot of cosmic matter rushing around ready to kill us)
7. The earth is tilted the correct way. (if you didnt know the tilt of the earth is actually what causes the seasons, not the distance. However, on mars it is the distance that causes the seasons)

there might be more, but I don't claim to be a theologian or anything.

[Lordwindowlicker]

Wow, are you trying to prove your point.. or mine?

[BestFly]

I'm just pointing out that the reason why you dont believe is like this

1. I don't believe in invisible things.
2. I've never seen something that is invisible.
-Therefore invisible things do not exist.

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

The problem is any proof or evidence can be "explained" by chance or something of that nature. While it happens, it's very rare that someone is "raised from the dead" or "suddenly cured" or something like that. it's like if everyone prayed for the lottery, did God answer someones prayer? Or did it just happen type thing.

but for the sake of making it interesting

since your resigned to say that God does not exist then you are also resigned to the cosmic lottery. As you know the earth is in the perfect spot for life. You might say that there are several places where this could happen, and this might be true.. but really the earth is..

1. The correct distance from the sun so we don't burn or freeze.
2. The right size to maintain gravity and an atmosphere.
3. Has a large moon (scientists have generally concluded that a large moon is required for life on a planet)
4. The sun is the right type of sun and the right size to support life.
5. We are in the correct type of galaxy (Spiral)
6. We are in the correct part of the galaxy (in an area where there is not a lot of cosmic matter rushing around ready to kill us)
7. The earth is tilted the correct way. (if you didnt know the tilt of the earth is actually what causes the seasons, not the distance. However, on mars it is the distance that causes the seasons)

there might be more, but I don't claim to be a theologian or anything.

Protip: Earth is not the only planet. The "cosmic lottery" argument is a classic example of epic failure to understand statistics. All of those factors don't need to exist on this particular planet, they need to exist any of the extremely large number of planets in the universe. An action that has a very small "chance" of happening that is performed and extremely large number of times is going to have good chances overall.

But a more fundamental error in these sort of arguments: Statistics only apply to things that haven't happened. All possible past events are binary- they either happened or they didn't. From your logic we'd have to conclude that no one can win the lottery without cheating because the chances of winning are so slim.

Another problem: http://www.fallacyfiles.org/texsharp.html

And as a side note, many of those factors are endlessly debatable, and only work in the least if you assume that any intelligent life can only form under conditions that mirror those of Earth. Most scientists are aware of that assumption, most laymen that bring these things up as though they meant anything do not.

[DOOM!]

All hail Raptor Jesus!