understanding guys

[Sanosuke23]

Girls that look good (or think that they do) tend to think that they need someone that looks good in return, to hold hands with. Not all girls are that way of course, and it also applies to males too. Of course that is not the case as looks are not everything that counts, although they are "something" to 'consider', they are nothing more than that.

Well then, if this was true then your sweeping generalizations about men's "testicular attentiveness" and the superiority of homosexuals as pets are then NOT your opinion I'm assuming. Hrm.

To some people, if they are attracted to someone because of the way that they act then it will not necessarily matter to them what the person looks like physically. It is just a case of getting to know that person before-hand and without continuesly thinking that they are only talking to this individual to get into their bed. Some people will only talk to members of the opposite sex if they are good looking, but thatt is just how it is.

Answer this though: Outside of the internet, how many straight women are willing to "get to know before-hand" a guy they are acquainted with who approaches them for a date or their phone number if they're not dazzlingly attractive? A date or phone number does not necessarily equate to "I want to have sex with you immediately please disrobe and assume the position," it CAN mean, shocker of shockers, "From my prior dealings with you I find I am interested in you and wish to initiate courtship."

However, many a "nice guy" who does this has been accused of "being creepy" after this, because he's not physically attractive to the woman. I'm not saying looks should be disregarded by either gender, that'd just be stupid, but pretending that it's only all men(aside from a token few to escape any accusations of sexism) or shallow women that are driven by their reproductive organs is even stupider.

I cannot help but think that I must be extra careful when typing in this thread.

Let's take that a step or two further.

I want everyone, myself included because I am not immune to this, to go out right now and get the above quoted sentence mounted on a plaque, written on a piece of paper, anything, and place it above wherever their computer is. Look up at it every time you decide to reply to any thread, ever.

That is my contribution towards making AF a better place.

EDIT: Before I go and get bunched in with the category of people who believe, as Minako so elegantly put it, that people go around saying "hi I'm totally unavailable but you look like someone I could have wonderful platonic conversations with, can I have your number," I'd just like to throw the definition of "courtship" out there:

a man's courting of a woman; seeking the affections of a woman (usually with the hope of marriage)

So basically, yes everyone plans on having sex as a matter of course, but it isn't necessarily the first and foremost objective in their conscious mind. There's things like romance, trust and compatibility that can be factors before considering having sex with a person. To oversimplify it by saying "All it is is sex, that's the only reason a man approaches a woman with his number or asking for hers" seems wrong to me, but your mileage may vary I suppose.

As for the "Well there are exceptions" being tacked to the end of everything in an event to spare feelings, there ARE exceptions, but they're mostly brought about by emotional trauma or some other set of circumstances unique to the individual. For instance, some people aren't comfortable with sex(either physically or even just the thought of it) and value a person more for the other parts of the relationship. They may have sex because they feel it's something they're supposed to do but not actually want to, or they might not even want to have sex at all. Not everyone's sex drive is that of a hormone-addled teenager, and in some cases it can be so low it's practically nonexistent.

However, I feel I should remind everyone that my argument was NOT that these few and proportionally-speaking rare exceptions were commonplace. My argument was that sex isn't the only thing ever on the minds of men to the exclusion of all else, nor are women chaste and innocent beings with the purest of thoughts unless they happen to be pretty in which case they MIGHT think about finding an attractive male to hold hands with, the scandalous wench! Still, there's more to finding love than sex, and it'd do some of you youngsters well to remember that. Now get off my lawn. *waves cane menacingly*

[Amray The II]

Well then, if this was true then your sweeping generalizations about men's "testicular attentiveness" and the superiority of homosexuals as pets are then NOT your opinion I'm assuming. Hrm.

Then your assumption is wrong. The statement that you quoted was just what a lot of people generally think regarding really good looking girls that love themelves too much and think that they deserve the best of males. It was not a personal opinion, it was just merely a statement based on the thoughts of countless people, likely unpopular ones. Before you ask for written proof on that then I will tell you this now, I have been in education for thirteen years and I have seen this happening around me countless times. So if you do not take my word for it then there is nothing else that I can do to back myself up on this information other than my own personal experience. of what I have seen of other people, through words.

Answer this though: Outside of the internet, how many straight women are willing to "get to know before-hand" a guy they are acquainted with who approaches them for a date or their phone number if they're not dazzlingly attractive? A date or phone number does not necessarily equate to "I want to have sex with you immediately please disrobe and assume the position," it CAN mean, shocker of shockers, "From my prior dealings with you I find I am interested in you and wish to initiate courtship."

The way you stated that it was a "shocker of shockers" obviously means that you yourself understand that is usually not the case when a man asks a woman for her number. Ofcourse it can be a case of the man wanting to initiate courtship, but on the greater picture it is just an implication that he just wants her in his bed. He may not be the one thinking this, even the woman may not believe that this is the case, but the people around them will. Apparently it is common sense that a if a man gives a woman his number, he is physically attrated to her. Of course this is not always the case although it will always be brought up and mused upon.

However, many a "nice guy" who does this has been accused of "being creepy" after this, because he's not physically attractive to the woman. I'm not saying looks should be disregarded by either gender, that'd just be stupid, but pretending that it's only all men(aside from a token few to escape any accusations of sexism) or shallow women that are driven by their reproductive organs is even stupider.

Again, it is just one way in which the female mind works. A majority of them assume a man is attracted to them if they ask for their number as stated above, and also, according to your posts, they will find it hard to associate and get close to someone whom is unattractive. Not all woman are like this I agree, but some generally are. Even if this unattractive man is the nicest man on the planet, if he is that bad looking then he will find it hard to interact with woman as they may cast him aside. He would need to get over that barrier of getting to know her, and her getting to know him, by using a general circumstance. Such as; she works with counselling and "needs" to give him information on his new house, he could start being really nice and understanding, they start talking about other things not concerning the house, et cetera.. (this is a terrible example..)

Let's take that a step or two further.

I want everyone, myself included because I am not immune to this, to go out right now and get the above quoted sentence mounted on a plaque, written on a piece of paper, anything, and place it above wherever their computer is. Look up at it every time you decide to reply to any thread, ever.

That is my contribution towards making AF a better place.

Maybe. But the only reason I stated that was because I was trying to state what I generally think without offending females, or males too for that matter. I thought that I should be careful as to what I type. In conclusion I wrote that line to show the other people of the forum that I was trying to fulfill that and that I did not mean to be offensive. A lot of people will not read this part of the post as it is a long post as a whole one and they will probably be bored by the time they get to this point. Therefore the theory for that line may still remain a sectret.

[Sagat]

I'd hate to burst your bubble Hamasaki, but almost everyone here over 18 years old has been in "education" for thirteen years. Of those over twenty, they have the four to nine years of education that actually matter.. The 13 years of education you throw out there like it has weight means diddly squat when the rest of the civilized world has it, and when it itself is largely irrelevant.

[3pleT]

for a moment there i thought i saw someone pointing out how gay people are different or something :/

[-akichan-]

I'm not here posting to make it sound like I am here to get you guys back on the topic. And I have no problems with people talking about something else that is more deeper down from the surface, but things are getting really odd and going too far away.

I don't think anything about gay or lesbian should be discussed in this thread since we are here to post things relevance to what the first poster said. Why can't we just keep talking about how to make guys and girls understand each other more?!

I do think that reading what people said on the first page does help to keep this thread open.

[~Mithrosent~]

I cant understand men. That's why I date women.

[October.]

some guys are really sweet while others are really mean and rude..all the same, i wonder how we, girls, can put up with them.
but, they are really nice to know...i'm not making sense..

[Amray The II]

I'd hate to burst your bubble Hamasaki, but almost everyone here over 18 years old has been in "education" for thirteen years. Of those over twenty, they have the four to nine years of education that actually matter.. The 13 years of education you throw out there like it has weight means diddly squat when the rest of the civilized world has it, and when it itself is largely irrelevant.

I was not using my age and years in education as a primary example. It was just simply another way of stating the little proof that I have to show I know how some of these types of relationships, relationships between good looking girls and good looking boys/ unattractive boys, work. I have seen it all before with experience.

Me stating that I have been in education for 13 years was just the very small segment of proof that I possess to show that I somehwat know what I am speaking of. I say somewhat as I admit I am not the most knowledgable person in terms of "understanding females and males" as I believe that every soul is unique. But I have seen around me what I have stated above in my previous post, and the point of my proof (what I have seen in my time of education) was to show that I have witnessed such things. It was nothing more than just that.

[Princess Minako]

No 18 year old has a full grasp of how ANY relationship works.... dude, you're 18!!!!!!!!

Get out of your parents house, go to college for a couple years, then come back, read your posts, smack yourself in the head, and respond. You'll be amazed at how much you will learn in college about people, life, and relationships.

You're "wise" and "boundless" knowledge of HIGH SCHOOL relationships mean about as much as dog poo.

When men ask for a females number they DO WANT TO COPULATE, either now or at a later date. I don't wander around and say "hi I'm totally unavailable but you look like someone I could have wonderful platonic conversations with, can I have your number". People don't want to date a dog, its true. They want to date someone they find attractive. People instinctively are drawn to those who can provide the best for their family and future, thats natural selection. This is evolutionarily programmed, someone who is monetarily successful, with a large habitation, and is preened well can provide for future generations and ensure that you are less likely to go without food, shelter, and be eaten by others (both physically and metaphorically). Women who have large breasts and curvacious hips are better equipped to bear children. Women who are obese or too skinny have a lower chance of survival. So someone who has all of the above features will be looking for their best mate to ensure continuation of their genes.

So its really not that illogical to grasp that a man who is handsome and rich will look for a hot well off chick to mate with to ensure the best genes are continued through the homo sapien line. Which is why you're "personality counts" is always secondary.

[Amray The II]

No 18 year old has a full grasp of how ANY relationship works.... dude, you're 18!!!!!!!!

For the third and final time I was not using my age and education as a means of showing that I understand males, females, and love. It was just a mere example I used to show little evidence of something that I know little of, for a subject that means little to me.

Get out of your parents house, go to college for a couple years, then come back, read your posts, smack yourself in the head, and respond. You'll be amazed at how much you will learn in college about people, life, and relationships.

By the time that I have left college and my parents' house I will have my degree. Therefore I will probably have no intentions to go back on to anime forum sites to waste away my spare time. In simpler context, I doubt I will be back to read this post. I even admitted to knowing nothing about this type of discussion.

You're "wise" and "boundless" knowledge of HIGH SCHOOL relationships mean about as much as dog poo.

When did I actually state that my words were that of an experienced genius that are also 100% correct? You cannot point that part out to me as I never said it, but what I did say was that I lack in intelligence with regards to understanding how males and females minds' work as, like you and others have stated, I am just a mere young teenager that 'cannot' understand these types of things yet. Therefore why create a serious argument with me?

When men ask for a females number they DO WANT TO COPULATE, either now or at a later date. I don't wander around and say "hi I'm totally unavailable but you look like someone I could have wonderful platonic conversations with, can I have your number". People don't want to date a dog, its true. They want to date someone they find attractive. People instinctively are drawn to those who can provide the best for their family and future, thats natural selection. This is evolutionarily programmed, someone who is monetarily successful, with a large habitation, and is preened well can provide for future generations and ensure that you are less likely to go without food, shelter, and be eaten by others (both physically and metaphorically). Women who have large breasts and curvacious hips are better equipped to bear children. Women who are obese or too skinny have a lower chance of survival. So someone who has all of the above features will be looking for their best mate to ensure continuation of their genes.

Why disagree with my post only to conclude it with a statment that I have been stating for the last three posts of mine? I have previously said all of this, things about good-looking males or females looking for their perfect counter-part, about it being common sense that if someone is requested to give their number to the opposite sex then it means they wish to start a relationship, and the more unattractive people of our race finding it difficult in terms of finding what they deem as their ideal partner. The only thing that I did not write with regards to your post was all of this "genes" business, which I admit I agree with. So why state that I do not understand anything when you basically state the same examples that I have used?

All I will say based on this is that I wish people would read my posts more thoroughly as opposed to picking parts out to bash me with.

So its really not that illogical to grasp that a man who is handsome and rich will look for a hot well off chick to mate with to ensure the best genes are continued through the homo sapien line. Which is why you're "personality counts" is always secondary.

Personality oftenly comes second I already know that and have stated it already. When I use phrases such as "This is not always the case" or "this does not apply to everyone", then it is just me trying too hard not to be offensive to other people. So when I stated that "Males whom are unattractive will find it a lot harder to get a really good-looking partner" and then follow it with "This is not always the case though" it means that I am trying to be comforting.

[Tetsanosuke]

I like how people seem to feed from trying to pick each others opinions apart. If someone is wrong or otherwise out of tempo with seeing the world they'll learn through their mistakes. (That's how we learn, trial and error.at least one part of our learning process)

Otherwise, if you are such a 'good' person trying to point out what is 'wholesomely right/logical' then just point it out, and be on your way. If people don't want to listen then they can make their own mistakes. If they question your logic then clarify it for them.

Becoming politicians (No offense to politicians in how I'm referring to them) on a forum where people are sharing their opinions, usually not so based on fact as much as preference/experience (No matter how much), just seems too hostile for such an environment (Oh, the trolls in the world).

But maybe it's that hostility over points of view that really makes us human. You never see Lions arguing about the differences between 'males and females', it's just procreation, hierarchy and biological processes. (I'm no zoologist, so insert the rest f the nature stuff here)

Either way, when I see people purposely 'attacking' each other for opinionated dominance I just can't help but wonder where it must come from. They say knowledge is power, so whoever has the winning knowledge must be powerful, right? But knowledge isn't always 'truth'.

--- End of rant ---

ANYWAY. As for the original topic at hand, I believe it's been stated quite enough that there isn't just one angle to every guy, nor is there for every girl. Sure we have instinctual processes that we abide by in the very least (some to the very most without conceptual regard) but that's what makes us all different.

There is no set equation that will give you the underlining male or female personality, but at the same time there are traits that we all notice about each gender that seem to be shared quite a bit throughout that gender.

That is, until your world expands even further. Even at that point, when you've seen multiple cultures and how their males and females function socially and interact.. There is still that point where the roots of each gender take at the very least some amount of ground.

Ergo I say that, you can't define one side or the other with bias experience, but you should be open minded for the possibilities that each gender can hold- whether it's socially, mentally or emotionally.

< Taking a deep breath. >

Whew. That's the ticket.

[Liquidus Zeromus]

Girls just try too hard

[lilmic]

no in general theyre trying to satisfy us and im not determining if gays are differant from us that are straight they however errelivantly really are the same they go through the same things we go through i have a god sister who is bisexual and ive seen her go through what we do everyday relationships are win lose there are ways to also make it win win but win win is harder to keep than win lose women want someone to support them and love them i understand guys are the same in some areas of their mind dont get me wrong some really love and care for the person theyre with though it wont be easy to keep it up and alive and i sometimes gets harder as u go on but hey what can you do

to those that are conceded
yes there are girls and guys that think they look better thats just like the aincient greek myths they can hurt someone and not give two cents about it they spend hours makeing themselves or try to make themselves look good when they accually could be but the attitude isnt and to those that see the dont like it and eventually dont like that person ither


im not argueing just defending
like some say if you dont understand men be mature and slove your own problem turn gay if you want to cope with it then do so dont cry about it deal with it on your own time comprendae

[Megamind's Minion]

understanding guys...
it's fairly simple...
they want everything they need @ the right place @ the right whenever they want it...
most of them, wants everything as simple as it should be..
no complications
and their life is purely routine...
if they do something out of their routine:

3 things...
1. they are in love
2. they have a problem
3. they are trying to hide from someone...

that's what my guy friends are doing...
& i've seen them do it for a lifetime....

[-akichan-]

All I will say based on this is that I wish people would read my posts more thoroughly as opposed to picking parts out to bash me with.

Goodness, I'm so glad that someone finally has said it!

[lilmic]

lost in hell i am

[Sagat]

Oh you're lost all right.

[lilmic]

yes and ill find my way out i always do

[MetalIsEternal]

Oh for the love of God, stop flaming each other! It's rediculously immature and everybody has there own opinions (mine just happen to be 100% correct lol just kidding.. don't verbally melt my face off please). If you don't understand your man, talk to him. If he doesn't tell you right away what he's thinking or how he feels, don't freak out or anything. He'll tell you when he's ready. If he's a complete d-bag and he treats you like crap, leave his *** (if you'll pardon my language). Life's too short so don't waste your time with some jerk who isn't worth it because their are plentyyyy of guys out there that ARE worth it. Just do whoever it is a favor and don't go crazy on him and make what he's doing or saying more complicated than it really is. Trust me, we aren't as complicated as you think we are. That said, I think I'll take a nap now

[Anpan Hayase]

understand GUYS!?! You girls are the conundrum that us GUYS can not figure out. please, you are probably talking about the retarded "douche" guy who has no sympthy for girls feelings what so ever.

Go back to the ocean and go fish again.

This made me smile.
Conundrum.


But anyway, both genders are simple and complex in their own ways.
You say guys are hard to make happy but I'm pretty sure girls are so much harder to please than most guys (not all girls, and this all depends on certain situations).