Newflash: Gay Marriage Ban Declared Unconstitutional in California

[Gjallarhorn]

it is totally UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, because the state recognition of the love of two individuals is so wrong! It's just horrible that people should expect the get any recognition for their love and loyalty to one another from the state! Dispicable!

Oh...wait...that's what marriage is!

Why do homosexuals care so much about getting legally married?

Why did women care so much about voting rights?

Why did blacks care so much about not being slaves?

Freedom. Respect. Equality.

That way, if it doesn't work out between them there won't be any pressure or commitment.

Same could be said for heterosexual marriage.

I dont get why gays all care so much whether the damned country or a state cares if your married...

Equality. Respect. Tax breaks. Medical breaks. You know, all the things other people get married for.



The U.S. was behind with banning slavery, giving women rights, and they're behind with this. Big surprise. No harm will come from giving homosexual people the same rights that everyone else has. Hell, did you know beating the hell out of someone because they're gay isn't even a hate crime, legally? It was proposed to get it passed to law, but it got turned down.

The only reason I can think that anyone would not want to give homosexual people the same rights as everyone else is religion, but then stashing it under the guise of "zomg itz uncostutushual!"

In the Consitution, marriage is not "defined" as between as a man and a woman. That's just some manipulation of semantics on the part of those who oppose homosexual rights. When that was written, homosexuality was not only rare, but very, very unaccepted, and thus those who were homosexual would not state that they were. There's nothing in the constitution that says that marriage between a man and a man or a woman and a woman is wrong, so stop reading in between lines that aren't there and pulling out that nonsense. Last I checked the constituion was about the equality of all men and women in a republic state. Hell, the Constitiontution technically allowed the ownership of slaves, so does that mean we shouldn't have changed the Constitution and banned slavery? Of course not. Change the Constituion, and give them the rights they deserve as American citizens.

[Ollie]

So you've never heard of people who have been mistreated so much by the other sex that they have CHOSEN to become homosexual?

Had you really read my post you would have noticed I was referring to this when I said "bisexuals who lean more to one side or the other."

They are not fully homosexual simply because they decided to party with one side. It is impossible to completely change the way your brain reacts to people simply because you had a bad break-up. You cannot deliberately choose your attractions based on gender or force chemistry to be there because you want to switch sides, although you can choose if you wish to date them OR in some cases of very open-minded people to "date the person and not the gender" (which is NOT the same thing). THAT is the only choice available, and the latter isn't even really a choice to some people (or so they feel).

To be homosexual or heterosexual isn't to choose which gender you prefer, it simply the way you are. Piper (though he never posts anymore) is gay, but said that he really tried to date women but NOTHING HAPPENED. Because he is gay and cannot make himself like women.

I'd be willing to bet the people you mentioned were mostly women, because a large number of women (compared to men) do this.

Until you can prove your side of the argument, you can't disprove mine.

Well, in science, no argument is co
I would, except actually being educated on the subject + I can see you're an idiot, I feel no need to prove any argument since I don't just believe but know that you are wrong and I can tell that you would refuse to accept it one way or the other, so I guess we'll both have to accept that there's yet another twit in the world spreading more incorrect information about an already stigmatized group.

[DaSOCOM]

Had you really read my post you would have noticed I was referring to this when I said "bisexuals who lean more to one side or the other."

They are not fully homosexual simply because they decided to party with one side. It is impossible to completely change the way your brain reacts to people simply because you had a bad break-up. You cannot deliberately choose your attractions based on gender or force chemistry to be there because you want to switch sides, although you can choose if you wish to date them OR in some cases of very open-minded people to "date the person and not the gender" (which is NOT the same thing). THAT is the only choice available, and the latter isn't even really a choice to some people (or so they feel).

To be homosexual or heterosexual isn't to choose which gender you prefer, it simply the way you are. Piper (though he never posts anymore) is gay, but said that he really tried to date women but NOTHING HAPPENED. Because he is gay and cannot make himself like women.

I'd be willing to bet the people you mentioned were mostly women, because a large number of women (compared to men) do this.
Well, in science, no argument is co
I would, except actually being educated on the subject + I can see you're an idiot, I feel no need to prove any argument since I don't just believe but know that you are wrong and I can tell that you would refuse to accept it one way or the other, so I guess we'll both have to accept that there's yet another twit in the world spreading more incorrect information about an already stigmatized group.

So what about someone who realizes later in their lifetime, while in a happy marriage with two kids, that they prefer the same gender more than the opposite?? They love their opposite-gendered spouse, or at least did, but now they find themselves attracted to the same sex. Were they pre-ordained to eventually like the same sex?

And BTW, these people that I know that made the switch because of abuse/mistreatment/lack of love, were mostly men. Did you know that women can beat their husbands and it is also considered domestic abuse?? And yes, all of these people went flat-out gay, choosing not to have romantic relationships with the opposite sex.

I would also love to know exactly what consitutes an "education" in matters pertaining to homosexual people, and how exactly their brains are mis-wired.

Peace,
DaSOCOM

[Capernicus]

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Is it just me, or is Capernicus contradicting herself? Because that's what I'm reading this as. You can't have a childhood indicator if it isn't present from early childhood. I'm sure your parents didn't raise you with the express intent of you becoming a lesbian, so please elaborate on what sequence of events made you gay at such a young age.

You know Sanosuke, I was not trying to pick a fight but merely trying to see if anyone here can say, based on scientific evidence, that homosexuality is indeed genetic. As far as I know, no one quite knows yet. Why are you going on the offensive? It just really seems to me that you are trying to pick a fight.

So what if I had childhood indicators of homosexuality when I was young? A lot of people do have them that aren't gay, a lot of people didn't have them who are gay. Maybe I should have pointed that out in my post, and for that I apologize. However, the childhood indicators themselves don't mean that I was born gay, they may just mean that something happened in my life before that time that made me gay and I had yet to realize it. Ever think of that?

Yes. Yes you are. He has a point, you don't develop a sexual attraction until you hit puberty and hormones start a-swirling and whatnot, but you can like-like people before that. That goes for everyone, regardless of sexual orientation.

I don't really understand why you're trying to dispute this.

Okay. Which part, the single traumatic event, or the being born gay part? Eh, either way, I take issue with you arguing either:

That sounds like a single event to me. You can't count mourning and loss as seperate events, as they're a part of the death. It's a cause and effect relationship. Well, you could, but that'd be stretching things considerably.

I'm sorry I didn't make my short illustration as elaborate as you seem to demand.

So, what your saying is, from the very beginning of your social development you practiced what you yourself called a "gay indicator," but you weren't gay. Nope, no ma'am, not gay in the slightest. Just acting.

This is just ridiculous.

I'd have an easier time believing you were doing anything besides reflexively going on the defensive if you didn't contradict yourself. Believe it or not, we're not all out to get you or have a huge argument, kiddo. =/

Why thank you for patronizing me. And you have now contradicted yourself, as you seem to have been the one to start making posts with 4+ quotes. Why have you nit-picked my arguement so thoroughly if you really aren't "out to get [me]"?

[Sanosuke23]

@Cap: Actually, I wasn't trying to attack. I wanted elaboration. To me, it sounded contradictory. If you weren't, you have every chance to explain how you weren't. You did, and so that's that.

You asked if you were the only one who saw his use of the word "gay" as accusatory. I answered. I don't see why you're trying to dispute a response to an open question you posed.

If you're going to use something as an argument, then admit you're oversimplifying when someone disputes it, it's usually not with sarcasm.

Yes, it probably is ridiculous. However so is saying that you showed signs that can be used as an indicator of future behavior at an extremely early stage in your development being a result of some sort of chain of events that lead you to it. It's much more likely that the children that exhibit such indicators early on in life but are straight as adults are changed by external stimuli while growing up, which while it supports your argument to a small extent I never claimed that it wasn't a possibility, just not the only possibility.

I'm not out to get you, I quoted you multiple times because you made multiple posts, and because it's easier to sort out my own thoughts when they're laid out piece-by-piece. You are indeed going on the defensive. Yujiro Hanma isn't even really attacking you or your sexual preference, even though he doesn't really have his thoughts as together as he seems to think he does. In fact, I'm surprised you haven't responded to Assassin of Konoha's post with all due haste, since her post is, no offense to her, downright ignorant in its opposition to this law.

By the way, how is the number of quotes related to the amount of malice in a post? I could not quote at all and leave a searing paragraph of bilious venom in written(or typed, in this case) form. Likewise, as is the case in this instance, I can quote multiple times and not particularly fall on either end of the love/hate spectrum.


This post is quote free, because apparently quotes=hate. ):<

[Capernicus]

I'm not really interested in a flame war, so you will get none from me. I would however like to point out that I did not respond to Assasin of Konoha's post because it was so devoid of intelligence and forethought that it wasn't worth debating.

Also, stop being so damn condescending, and stop acting like I only posted this topic so that I could search for gay haters on the forum. Trust me, I don't get my jollies from bashing people over the internet, as is indicated by "I'm surprised you haven't responded to Assassin of Konoha's post with all due haste". It really bothers me when people assume that all gays are out to get everyone who doesn't agree with their lifestyle and/or are constantly angry.

[blackrosetwilight]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...=opinionsbox1#

Woooohooo! I wanna grab me a woman and get hitched!

But in all seriousness, I think that by tying the case to Brown vs. Board of Education, the gay rights supporters made a very strong argument that ultimately led to this outcome. It is the opinion of most of the population that this is a big step toward making gay marriage legal in the entire nation, but some argue that it only provides a target at which certain groups can attack. The people as a whole are leaning toward acceptance already, so was this really necessary? What are your thoughts? This thread isn't so much about what you think of gay marriage but more of what you think about the courts decision and how it will affect later policies.

I think it is a big win for my LGBT brothers and sisters. I can see where critics are coming from, but really such an event has to happen in order for things to be "official", so it was going to happen sooner or later. Whether my personal opinion is right I guess we'll have to see.



Edit: Oh damn, I meant to say "Newsflash" in the title but I can't edit the thing. I suck.

If you think thats bad, you should check out what there doing in Gambia. Here check this link. Oh and I didnt read most of the other post on this thread since most of it was nothing but a big flaming mess oops sorry here's the link.
http://news.asiantown.net/read/6151.html

[Ollie]

So what about someone who realizes later in their lifetime, while in a happy marriage with two kids, that they prefer the same gender more than the opposite?? They love their opposite-gendered spouse, or at least did, but now they find themselves attracted to the same sex. Were they pre-ordained to eventually like the same sex?

Most likely, yeah. When you live in a society that still condemns homosexuality it's more likely you'll force yourself to pass as a heterosexual. In fact, many homosexuals growing up having a lot of heterosexual relationships because they're trying to convince everyone (even themselves)they aren't gay.

And BTW, these people that I know that made the switch because of abuse/mistreatment/lack of love, were mostly men. Did you know that women can beat their husbands and it is also considered domestic abuse?? And yes, all of these people went flat-out gay, choosing not to have romantic relationships with the opposite sex.

Again, choosing not to date the opposite sex does not change if you are attracted to them by brain chemistry (which is what makes you gay/bi/straight). Only that you won't be asking them out or accepting dates so eagerly.

I would also love to know exactly what consitutes an "education" in matters pertaining to homosexual people, and how exactly their brains are mis-wired.

a) I've always been really interested in homosexuality and gay rights, and have been taking a class on human sexuality in the last few months. Which included covering LGBT.
b) Their brains are not mis-wired because they react differently.

[Pix the Skull Kid]

Again, choosing not to date the opposite sex does not change if you are attracted to them by brain chemistry (which is what makes you gay/bi/straight). Only that you won't be asking them out or accepting dates so eagerly.

Actually, no. Use to have feelings toward guys, now I'm not in the least bit attracted to them. In my opinion your being a little closed minded of the gay/lesbian possabilities.

[Amray]

Actually, no. Use to have feelings toward guys, now I'm not in the least bit attracted to them.

I bet if you met me you would change your mind. ;D

No but seriously, I think people should be able to marry whoever the duck they want no matter the age or gender. ALAS! That is a 'true' free country!! ^-^
You people may just think that these are just the typical rambles of a pervert, but I have news for you!....you are absolutely right! XD

[sataned]

Why shouldn't they care about their legal rights? It isn't so much that they can't just say that they are married, but that they want the same rights afforded to married hetero couples. They want to share insurance policies, have implicit power of attorney, and file joint tax returns like the straights do. If it isn't such a big deal, why don't you just throw them the bone? And if it is, why do you think you should be their moral judge?

The whole "There are bigger fish to fry" argument is stupid.

is it really stupid...
yes whats happening to the gays is unconstitutional, and against human rights basically...and i wasnt trying to justify whats going on here in the states by saying its worse in other places and here, but they should just take what they can get, its like black people fighting for repirations, theyre not going to get it, although their people were enslaved

PS: couldnt gays have implicit power of attorney as individuals? instead of representing themselves as a couple if a gay couple ever had to go to court?...(seriously why cant they just put on their rings and say were married, who cares if the damned state or country doesnt approve...)

not all married couples benefit from joint tax returns, plus theres are things that could go wrong with joint tax returns...

and seriously... gays are fighting so they can save money on insurance policies? now thats stupid...

[Sagat]

it is totally UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ha ha ha ha ha...

Like your constitution even matters anymore.

People are only caring so much over this issue, are only so vehemently opposed and repulsed by this because of how brain washed and indoctrinated your average worthless waste of flesh is by these sickening religion born beliefs that our culture has adopted. Even if you do not consider yourself religious, most of us had these thoughts crammed into our heads from childhood.

Continue to willingly tighten the leashes around your necks by spouting your anti-homosexual sentiments. Pull tight on the blinds covering your eyes so that the light of intelligence, reason, truth, or all three never shine into the abandoned attic that should house your brains. Continue to have society think for you as to avoid the difficulty of formulating them yourselves.

I will patiently sit here, with the rest of a select few on this lonely and tiny island for those whose intelligence allows them to take off the shackles, and hope every night that you all choke and die.

I had to come out and say this eventually. Reading so many of the responses in this thread along with watching George Carlins rants on youtube probably pushed me over the limit.

[Sanosuke23]

is it really stupid...
yes whats happening to the gays is unconstitutional, and against human rights basically...and i wasnt trying to justify whats going on here in the states by saying its worse in other places and here, but they should just take what they can get, its like black people fighting for repirations, theyre not going to get it, although their people were enslaved

PS: couldnt gays have implicit power of attorney as individuals? instead of representing themselves as a couple if a gay couple ever had to go to court?...(seriously why cant they just put on their rings and say were married, who cares if the damned state or country doesnt approve...)

not all married couples benefit from joint tax returns, plus theres are things that could go wrong with joint tax returns...

and seriously... gays are fighting so they can save money on insurance policies? now thats stupid...

You're missing the point entirely.

It's more a matter of why can't they do all of that. They're human beings, right? So why take away any of the options available to a heterosexual couple? I find it surprising that marriage isn't a big deal to some people and yet they won't let "the gays" do it. The argument "I don't know why they're making such a big deal about it, who cares if they can't get married?" is especially hilarious, because if nobody cares if they can't, then nobody should care if they can.


Oh, and the reason reparations can't be given is because there's no official census record of who is descended from slaves and who isn't. It's not a matter of "We ain't givin' them darkies nothin'," so much as it is "We can't be sure someone's not going to walk up and say 'I'm descended from slavery,' only to find out their ancestors weren't slaves." Denying gay people the right to a legal union falls more into that first example's train of thought by the way.

[Capernicus]

is it really stupid...
yes whats happening to the gays is unconstitutional, and against human rights basically...and i wasnt trying to justify whats going on here in the states by saying its worse in other places and here, but they should just take what they can get, its like black people fighting for repirations, theyre not going to get it, although their people were enslaved

You mean reparations? Africa Americans have not been enslaved for almost 150 years. I think asking for reparations at this point is a little foolish. The jews should be looking for reparations because millions of them were slaughtered only 70 years ago. Regardless, I your argument to "take what you can get" is ridiculous. Should African Americans have taken being set free and not fight for the right to vote or against segregation and abuse?

[Amray]

One of the reasons that I am not going Gay is because I want to bare children or rather a child. Preferably a lovely baby girl! ^-^
Das ist one of my biggest dreams of the future, therefore if I were to turn Gay then my dream would be ruined. Also I like mini-skirts, and guys wearing them is just scarey. The cute legs that I am staring at must belong to a cute girl with the face of an Angel.

There again, another dream of mine is for Bridget from Guilty Gear to come out my Tele whilst playing and then us having a lovely night out together. He looks like a girl and that is good enough for moi! XD

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/184/3...916afab3_o.jpg

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

is it really stupid...
yes whats happening to the gays is unconstitutional, and against human rights basically...and i wasnt trying to justify whats going on here in the states by saying its worse in other places and here, but they should just take what they can get, its like black people fighting for repirations, theyre not going to get it, although their people were enslaved

Sanosuke and Cap handled this point.

PS: couldnt gays have implicit power of attorney as individuals? instead of representing themselves as a couple if a gay couple ever had to go to court?...(seriously why cant they just put on their rings and say were married, who cares if the damned state or country doesnt approve...)

Implicit is the key word. You can give anyone Power of Attorney, so long as they can accept it, but if you didn't think ahead and fill out the forms, that right goes to their next of kin. Likewise, if one Hypothetical Gay Spouse dies and hasn't written a will, half of their shared possession go to his/her family. Married couples never have to worry about this sort of thing, which is the point.

not all married couples benefit from joint tax returns, plus theres are things that could go wrong with joint tax returns...

That's not a point. Sometimes, it is better to make a shared return, and Gay Couples aren't given that option.

and seriously... gays are fighting so they can save money on insurance policies? now thats stupid...

No, they want equal rights like human beings. I'm outlining the legal benefits of a legal marriage over just declaring themselves married. They might not matter to YOU but they obviously do matter to people that plan on having a steady relationship with someone of the same.

[Ollie]

Actually, no. Use to have feelings toward guys, now I'm not in the least bit attracted to them. In my opinion your being a little closed minded of the gay/lesbian possabilities.

"lol"

No, I'm not, merely reacting to someone stating something (":homosexuality is a choice") false as the truth.

Annnd you can probably consider yourself a lesbian, but you aren't 100% homosexual according to the Kinsey scale (0-6 straight to homosexual, 0 being 100% straight and 6 being 100% homosexual, you probably land on 4 or 5 because it's based not on how you currently feel but your entire romantic history and tendencies). Though if you're one of those "ALL MEN ARE PIGS" types, disgust could presumably turn someone off attraction completely.

Would I be correct your change from men to women has change in the last, eh... 6 years or less?


and edit* I just want to add to make sure no one misreads this (since I seem to be coming off as saying something other than my meaning): I'm not saying it's impossible to start out as a straight person then develop attractions towards people of the same sex, or wind up liking the personality over the gender. What I AM saying is that you can't go from having emotionally involved relationships with one gender (and I mean real relationships, not the kind many homosexuals have before they realize "hey, I'm gay, I don't like wo/men like that and there's a reason why me and my girlfriend/boyfriend never actually had chemistry") then pass onto another and call yourself 100% gay/straight, since your dating history shows you've had attractions to one gender before.