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Thread: Just how Human are we?

  1. #1
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    Thumbs down Just how Human are we?

    The world today is overrun by human technology and pollution. Forests are chopped down and covered by asphalt, and rivers are filled with poisonous byproducts. It seems humans have created an enormous gap between themselves and their closest living relatives. Humans are not subject to the forces of evolution in the same way that all other organisms are, because they adapt technologically, instead of evolving biologically.

    To understand the significance of this difference, one must understand just how different humans are biologically from their nearest living relatives, the chimpanzees and bonobos. Human DNA is only 3-5% (the exact number is highly debated) different than Chimpanzee DNA, meaning humans share over 95% of their DNA code with chimpanzees. The three main distinctions used to explain Homo sapien’s uniqueness are habitual bipedalism, larger brains, and dependency on tool use. It is important to understand that all three of these distinctions are a scale of how much more Homo sapiens do them. Chimpanzees and bonobos can walk on two feet, have brains nearly as large as our own, and have some tool use. They just don’t do these things as well, nor as much.

    It becomes apparent that biologically, chimps and bonobos are extremely similar to humans, and their mental and physical capabilities almost match that of humans. The main difference between humans and chimpanzees, which causes the vast gap in behavior, is the extent to which humans use and increase their technology. Chimpanzees and bonobos may use simple tools to get food which they normally could not have, but this tool use is rare and makes little difference in the survival of the primate. Their tools are also expendable. They may strip the bark from a twig, and use it as a tool, but as soon as they are done they will discard the twig and move on. Chimpanzees and bonobos never keep their tools with them. Humans, on the other hand, use their technology to adapt to any climate, situation, or habitat, and make tools that they will keep. This has a big impact on the survival of the humans.

    This is what makes humans distinct, and causes them to escape most of evolution’s grasp. Instead of evolving to survive new circumstances, humans use their technology to adapt. If the temperature drops drastically, instead of evolving and growing thick fur and obtaining more body mass, humans would develop new technology such as warmer clothes, and sources of energy that produce heat. In a sense, humans have replaced biological evolution with technological evolution, because it is much more efficient, and allows for intended changes, rather than random chance. One driving force that allows for such effective technological evolution is a spoken and written language. Once humans could pass information on through mere words, instead of teaching through actions, the technological advancement could flourish.

    In biological evolution, an organism must wait until an offspring has a random chance mutation that benefits it in some way, before it can evolve and become better. However, without the limitations of time and randomness, human technology can evolve quickly and exponentially. Following natural selection, this technological evolution is far more efficient than regular biological evolution, so the effects of biological have no advantage and are not passed on. These random chance mutations are ignored and useless, because some form of human technology is better and much more efficient. This seems to imply that humans no longer evolve biologically, and that humans are no longer subject to the forces of evolution.

    However, regardless of technology, biological evolution can still take place. When adaptation is not possible, or technology is not developed quickly enough or efficiently enough, a change to the environment can cause biological evolution. For example, if a plague strikes a population and only a small percentage of the population has some genetic mutation that makes them immune to or at least resistant enough to the plague to survive, those humans will live to reproduce, and evolution on a microscopic scale has occurred. These drastic changes in environment are rare enough and the biological changes subtle enough that they would probably not be enough to cause speciation with humans.

    Another way in which evolution can still occur in humans is sexual selection, although technological advancements in the altering of physical appearance limit this possibility. Ideally, men with more favorable features and attributes such as strong stature, high intelligence, and capability to support a family would be chosen by females to reproduce with, and humans would evolve towards better traits. However, modern technological advancements such as plastic surgery and complex societies have removed a large portion of sexual selection. Traits that would affect survival are not needed as much due to our large societies, and physical traits are easily altered with makeup, surgery, supplements, and training. Simple inherent traits are very rarely viewed as important enough to cause evolution, and what evolution does occur is so minor and so rare that its affects can’t be seen.

    While humans do still evolve biologically, it is only under special and rare occasions, and the evolution is minor. Rather than evolving to be better fit to survive changes in environment, humans tend to adapt with their technology, while keeping the same biological structure. Human DNA may only have a difference of 3-5% from chimpanzee DNA, but somewhere in that 3-5% is the ability to develop technology to adapt to almost any situation. There are some unfortunate consequences on nature as human adaptation becomes more and more of a burden on the environment, and humans can only hope it is not this great ability of adaptation that ultimately ends humanity.

  2. #2
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    Humans and Apes have a 1% difference in DNA structure.
    So how human are Chimps?

    Easy- 99%.
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  3. #3
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    Where did you copy it?

    Anyway these and some other reasons, like human stupidity and human ignorance about the real world makes me want to "clean" the planet.
    All what matters is money and wealth, I'm sure I'm close when I say that about 95% of all human beings in this world have no reason to live, they just exist.
    And that's a waste, a waste of natural resources.
    I'm hoping all the predictions will come true and WorldWar III will begin this year, so hopefully as Nostradamus and Cayne said that 97% of all humans will die. (Because of all the chemical, nuclear and bio weapons).

    We shouldn't forget that humans are slowly degrading .. our everyday life sure becomes more and more easier because of all the new tech. and new discoveries by scientists. Our whole evolution went wrong, we never learned to use more than 3~5% of our brain, we know nothing about our reason to exist, nothing about life on another planets, we deny everything what seems "not logical" or "weird" for us. Like telekinesis, spirits, ghosts, aliens and so on.

    But since we are still quite intelligent compared to the rest of the living beings on earth we value intelligence, because that allows us to beleive anything we want.
    We like to think we're the "rulers" of this planet, or our actions have nothing to do what happens somewhere else, or that there is a God or we are the only intelligent life form out there.

    Next, we slaughter animals like there's no tomorrow, we limit their existance, we kill them because some of them are potentially dangerous to humans, we completly eliminate some animals from the face of earth.
    Nobody seems to notice that we are the virus of this planet, there's soon 7 billion of us!
    And we do nothing to stop this! Why? Because man written laws, what are just words on a paper won't allow us, because it seems so brutal to us.

    We waste energy resources like we want to kill this planet, we pump everything we can out of the earth, we destroy as much as we can on the earth ... just for the money. A piece of paper with no value at all, only our agreement that numbers on the paper show it's cash value.

    Do we really deserve to live? The answer is a big fat NO.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos Proxy View Post
    Where did you copy it?

    I got it from an essay, It was pretty interesting so I made a thread about it, I wanted to see what people would say.

  5. #5
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    Yeah, my mom says some of the same stuff alot... It's kinda scary too.

    I'm someone who has my future planned out.. But now it seems like I won't be able to see it happen... It's sad.

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos Proxy View Post
    Do we really deserve to live? The answer is a big fat NO.
    It is our prerogative to do what is in our capability. We are the superior species of the planet. We do not have to deserve anything, we have earned it by the very fact that we can. A lot of people live in the misconception that humanity is not part of nature, or that human activities are unnatural. That is a boatload of hogwash. We are as natural as any other animal on the planet. We evolved into our position, just as much as they did.

    Naturally, when we are in control of the planet, we have no-one but ourselves to blame when everything goes to hell in a hand basket.



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  7. #7
    Junior Member mmcelde will become famous soon enough mmcelde will become famous soon enough mmcelde's Avatar
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    well, humans and flies have like 90% of the same DNA or something like that. I think people are stupid, but I really don't want all of humanity to end. If we would just start building so we could get to most places by foot and stop throwing everything away, I think that would be the first step.
    And yes, as far as evolution, we are out of the main parts of it. But people are still evolving, every generation is evolving, but that doesn't mean it is good or bad. Evolution just is, and evolution isn't naturally good for the environment.
    Now, if we could just evolve are brains in a "good" way, to make technology that gives us clean energy and stops using all of our non-renewable resources. In the end, things will balance, but how far does it have to tip before that happens?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmcelde View Post
    well, humans and flies have like 90% of the same DNA or something like that. I think people are stupid, but I really don't want all of humanity to end. If we would just start building so we could get to most places by foot and stop throwing everything away, I think that would be the first step.
    And yes, as far as evolution, we are out of the main parts of it. But people are still evolving, every generation is evolving, but that doesn't mean it is good or bad. Evolution just is, and evolution isn't naturally good for the environment.
    Now, if we could just evolve are brains in a "good" way, to make technology that gives us clean energy and stops using all of our non-renewable resources. In the end, things will balance, but how far does it have to tip before that happens?

    Like that'll ever happen, We have so many ignorant people, It probably won't happen.

    I bet the Human Race doesn't even have a future.

    Black Out > Technology > Human

    Honestly, species only live for 4 million years approx anyway.

  9. #9
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    I'm sure I have a rant on this site somewhere about humans degrading but I don't know where ... But I agree we ave no right to be here and don't deserve what we have. Sides with the current rate at which the world economy is crashing we shall soon not ave much of the stuff we use now ... Stupid people.
    When things go boom ... RUN AWAY!!!!

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  10. #10
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    We're working on the cleaner energy. It's not easy to violate the laws of thermodynamics you know, and fossil fuel was the best free ride we've ever gotten in the history of this planet. We really wouldn't have technology at all aside from primitive steam engines and horse drawn plows without it, if we were able to not turn our planet into Easter Island by stripping all the wood as fuel for society.

    Of course, you have corporate pressure from the oil industry limiting how fast that development occurs, as they see it a threat to their business.

    In addition, that disposible society we have created is also the result of corporate pressure. There is more money in making things disposable so they can sell you new stuff all the time than there is making things that can be repaired and last a long time.

    Unfortunately, our landfills and energy supply have taken the brunt of this shift...

    There is another pressure though, that of the government. Any new technology will have it's weaknesses exploited by the oil companies in the government, and will likely be banned from the table before it even gets close to production.

    On top of that, we have reached a very unstable situation- computing up our total energy consumption, it exceeds the amount of sunlight that falls on the surface of this planet. Which means, even at 100% energy utilization efficiency from the sun, we will suffer a loss of some technology and common services to make up for the resultant energy shortage unless Nuclear sources are employed
    Last edited by Renegade of Life; 04-07-2008 at 08:53 PM.

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  11. #11
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    We are as human as we perceive ourselves to be, as existence is only based on our perception of reality.

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  12. #12
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    You could complain about it, or you could invest your own money into fixing supposed problems.

    Anyway these and some other reasons, like human stupidity and human ignorance about the real world makes me want to "clean" the planet.
    Now that will solve everything. If you just preemptively create our supposed problems of the future, we'll only have you to blame.

  13. #13
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    Human enough to invent enough bombs to blow away this planet

  14. #14
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    human enough to make bomb roast beaf sandmich!!<3

  15. #15
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    Human enough to be like other animals and argue over things and fight over resources. Human enough to not just fight directly and be like other large mammals, stomp around and snort, and go directly for the throat no, we make bombs and guns instead.

    As humans, we shouldn't think that we are that different from other animals, we are way similar in many respects. And as far as thinking as humans we should be destroyed, they'll just be some other species to come along and exploit the earth in our place. Any species will run rampet given the right opportunity. That's programmed in us. The more evolutionarily "fit" the more you propagate yourself, the more you do that, the more you use up whatever resources you're into.
    Humans are doing the same thing any other species would do given the right opportunity. Exotic flora gets planted here, they have nothing eating them or whatever, and they run rampant.

    Where I live, all the larger predators have been killed off, so the deer go crazy, eating everything until the population starts starving and getting sick. When that happens, the Game and Fish guys are out there encouraging people to go dear hunting, or there won't be any new trees or small herbaceous plants that are valued in the forests, the deer will just wreak havoc on the landscape, eating everything in sight.

    The difference between humans and dear, besides the physique, we'll, we can, I'm not saying we are, but their is a chance we can take control of the situation. Many people are trying to do that. More than some might think.

    How to make it better? Is it really that hard for regular people. Hmm? Recycle, don't buy all that crap you don't need, don't throw so much food out, don't have large families, start a family later in life, walk, ride a bike, seek alternative fuels, donate to companies that are seeking energy alternatives, and for gods sake, buy those energy efficient light bulbs, don't waste water. I mean come on, this isn't rocket science.

    Unfortunately, many people won't do this on their own until it hits them in the face that there is a big problem and they have a conscience and respect for other humans and the continuation of a diverse earth, or it becomes mandated, or we just run out of the resources at some point, ending in a massive decline in the world population.

    Extravagance and decoration are apart of evolution as well, as far as attracting a mate goes. The bigger your car, it's like the bigger the peacocks feather, it attracts attention. Bad attention from me, but attention nonetheless. I prefer fast cars to big ones anyway.

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    You people are are as human as human can be, by definition. What's inhuman is perfection, but as soon as a human attains that it will be just as human as anything else.

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    I as a HUMAN, will prefer evolving Technologically, rather than biologically.
    Why wait for centuries/Millenium to 'evolve' into something more 'advanced',
    when you can do it in just a few minutes. We are the most superior organism on this planet.

    Earth is ours to Use and Abuse.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darklord View Post
    I as a HUMAN, will prefer evolving Technologically, rather than biologically.
    Why wait for centuries/Millenium to 'evolve' into something more 'advanced',
    when you can do it in just a few minutes. We are the most superior organism on this planet.

    Earth is ours to Use and Abuse.
    We are rather degrading at the moment, not evolving.
    Using technology "evolves" you? (Directed at *when you can do it in just a few minutes* part).

    We are not the most surperior organism, but there are alot of us and never underestimate the power of stupid people in masses.

    Who says earth is ours to use/abuse? You? Your "God"? Man written laws?
    The breathing of the ancient ones are seldom felt
    I alone have torn their dreams apart.



  19. #19
    Senior Member Renegade of Life has a reputation beyond repute Renegade of Life has a reputation beyond repute Renegade of Life has a reputation beyond repute Renegade of Life has a reputation beyond repute Renegade of Life has a reputation beyond repute Renegade of Life has a reputation beyond repute Renegade of Life has a reputation beyond repute Renegade of Life has a reputation beyond repute Renegade of Life has a reputation beyond repute Renegade of Life has a reputation beyond repute Renegade of Life has a reputation beyond repute Renegade of Life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos Proxy View Post
    We are rather degrading at the moment, not evolving.
    Using technology "evolves" you? (Directed at *when you can do it in just a few minutes* part).

    We are not the most surperior organism, but there are alot of us and never underestimate the power of stupid people in masses.

    Who says earth is ours to use/abuse? You? Your "God"? Man written laws?
    It's going to be possible in the near future to "Cross Over" and use a mechanical body instead if our organic ones. Then we will evolve at-will, just unbolt your chest plate and plug in a new feature.

    Though it might still be a bit before that becomes commonplace.

    As for "abusing" the earth, abuse itself is a human concept. A lot of what we consider abuse is what nature intended you know, such as a dog brutally mauling a cat and then eating it.

    I do think we need to conserve what is left, given the sheer volume of people and the finite quantities of resources remaining. In a way, we are still bound by nature in that we are still limited by the quantity of resources on this planet since we so far are unable to colonize other worlds.

    If we make our way off this planet though then we would be like a plague, exploiting and destroying planets for profit and our own egos.
    Last edited by Renegade of Life; 04-09-2008 at 08:10 AM.

    Here at the place where our love reached it's climax, I leave behind a broken heart torn to pieces by fate.

    Merry Christmas.

  20. #20
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    To address the general thread of the argument so far, the idea that humans are actually capable of "destroying" the world has always struck me as rather arrogant.

    How do you define the "end of the world", anyhow? If by that you mean the extinction of humans, that is a hopelessly ego-centric perspective - countless species have existed before humans did, and certainly will after we are gone. If you mean the end of all life, by what do you justify the thought that life has any value? By human standards. Thus, that too would be a rather humanistic view.

    And if you seriously think we're capable of utterly destroying the planet physically, you're definitely watching too much Star Wars.

    I read somewhere that before oxygen became prevailent within our atmosphere, there was another kind of gas, lethal to the life on our planet today, but there were lifeforms that thrived on it. When oxygen appeared those lifeforms went extinct. To them, the nature of our planet today would be about as natural as Mars would seem to us. When we are killed off (by our own doing or by some outer factor is utterly inconsequential) another completely different ecosystem will simply take our place. If there is anything "natural" about this world, it would be that concession and nothing else.

    In any case, you can take this sort of discussion two ways, scientifically or theologically (or rather, philosophically, though not in the post-Hegelian sense but in a more medieval usage of the term). I feel the argument on this thread is tilting a little too much towards the latter.

    P.S.
    Science is not my strong point, so forgive me if I say something incredibly stupid to the non-layman. I read an article in the newspaper a while back that some scientist proved that people can biologically evolve at a perceptible rate. The enzyme for digesting lactose (you know, like lactose intolerance) was found in a sample of people living in Africa where it previously didn't exist. Apparently the people biologically adapted as the habit of drinking milk was brought in from other continents. Interesting, is it not?
    "If a person who indulges in gluttony is a glutton, and a person who commits a felony is a felon, then God is an iron."

    -Spider Robinson, God Is an Iron

  21. #21
    Senior Member Renegade of Life has a reputation beyond repute Renegade of Life has a reputation beyond repute Renegade of Life has a reputation beyond repute Renegade of Life has a reputation beyond repute Renegade of Life has a reputation beyond repute Renegade of Life has a reputation beyond repute Renegade of Life has a reputation beyond repute Renegade of Life has a reputation beyond repute Renegade of Life has a reputation beyond repute Renegade of Life has a reputation beyond repute Renegade of Life has a reputation beyond repute Renegade of Life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Datenshi View Post
    To address the general thread of the argument so far, the idea that humans are actually capable of "destroying" the world has always struck me as rather arrogant.
    Not really. Supposedly if you computed the total explosive force of all the world's nuclear and conventional weapons firing off at once, it would be sufficient to reduce this planet to a cloud of asteroids.

    I doubt it would really shatter it though, it would more likely just scorch the surface and make the atmosphere uninhabitable for a few million years before nature repaired the damage and a new species evolved to dominate it.

    Here at the place where our love reached it's climax, I leave behind a broken heart torn to pieces by fate.

    Merry Christmas.

  22. #22
    Banned Forum / Chat Chaos Proxy is infamous around these parts Chaos Proxy is infamous around these parts Chaos Proxy is infamous around these parts Chaos Proxy is infamous around these parts Chaos Proxy is infamous around these parts Chaos Proxy is infamous around these parts Chaos Proxy is infamous around these parts Chaos Proxy is infamous around these parts Chaos Proxy is infamous around these parts Chaos Proxy is infamous around these parts Chaos Proxy is infamous around these parts Chaos Proxy's Avatar
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    cyborgmonkey22, don't EVER quote a huge post like that to comment that you'll agree. Also note, that he copied it from someones work.

    Anyway, human race will die sooner or later, but since most of us don't think about it we're only fastening the process.
    There aren't much intelligence left in humans, and those who have it use it to get more cash and have a better life, seriously.

    Do you know how much military power our the worlds leading countries have? They could destroy the earth hundred times over and over. So if World War III should ever happen, you could say we're [insert a bad word here].
    The breathing of the ancient ones are seldom felt
    I alone have torn their dreams apart.



  23. #23
    Senior Member Legend Saber has a reputation beyond repute Legend Saber has a reputation beyond repute Legend Saber has a reputation beyond repute Legend Saber has a reputation beyond repute Legend Saber has a reputation beyond repute Legend Saber has a reputation beyond repute Legend Saber has a reputation beyond repute Legend Saber has a reputation beyond repute Legend Saber has a reputation beyond repute Legend Saber has a reputation beyond repute Legend Saber has a reputation beyond repute Legend Saber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos Proxy
    I'm sure I'm close when I say that about 95% of all human beings in this world have no reason to live, they just exist.
    Hyperbole to the greatest degree. Our entire world system would collapse if only 5% of the population were supporting it. Not to mention the fact that, in most countries, people have to perform jobs to acquire the money needed to survive. These jobs usually benefit the rest of us in a manner (even if indirectly or to a minuscule degree), which justifies their existence.

    Unless you want to get nihilistic on me and say that there's no purpose to the Universe at all and every action that can be taken is objectively no different from any other. >_>

    Quote Originally Posted by Proxy Chaos
    I'm hoping all the predictions will come true and WorldWar III will begin this year, so hopefully as Nostradamus and Cayne said that 97% of all humans will die. (Because of all the chemical, nuclear and bio weapons).
    I dun remember Nostradamus predicting the world would end in 2008. =/

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos Proxy
    Our whole evolution went wrong, we never learned to use more than 3~5% of our brain
    That's a myth. We use our entire brains through the course of our lives, but rarely more than 5-10% at a given time. This is similar to how you never use 100% of your physical body at once (well, you can, but they're usually called seizures <_<;). Every part of the brain is tuned for a different function; using all of it as once would just lead to mass confusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos Proxy
    we know nothing about our reason to exist
    The very fact that we're aware of existence puts us on a plateau higher than 99.9999% of the species of animals to ever be born on planet Earth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos Proxy
    nothing about life on another planets
    We know more about it than any other creature to ever traverse the Earth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos Proxy
    we deny everything what seems "not logical" or "weird" for us. Like telekinesis, spirits, ghosts, aliens and so on.
    We deny everything that should be denied. I think it more a failure of humanity that people would blindly believe stories without further evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos Proxy
    We like to think we're the "rulers" of this planet
    In a way, we are. We've separated ourselves from the natural world and created our own in its stead. No other single species on the planet holds the degree of control humans do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos Proxy
    Next, we slaughter animals like there's no tomorrow, we limit their existance, we kill them because some of them are potentially dangerous to humans, we completly eliminate some animals from the face of earth.
    We do what any other creature would do in our place, and we do it in a far more humane manner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos Proxy
    We waste energy resources like we want to kill this planet, we pump everything we can out of the earth, we destroy as much as we can on the earth ... just for the money. A piece of paper with no value at all, only our agreement that numbers on the paper show it's cash value.
    We seek only what every other creature on the planet has seeked and ever will seek: comfort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos Proxy
    Do we really deserve to live? The answer is a big fat NO.
    Does any creature deserve to live? It isn't as if the world was handed to humans on a silver platter; we worked and worked for thousands of years before acquiring the level of civilization seen today. Each generation out-performed the last, passing down information and technology and knowledge. It is only through our knowledge we advanced -- knowledge that we had to discover for ourselves and by ourselves, with little outside assistance.

    We were given lemons by nature and we made lemonade. How does this make us less worthy of existence than any other creature to exist before us?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Dr. M.D. M.P. Eris
    A lot of people live in the misconception that humanity is not part of nature, or that human activities are unnatural.
    We have, however, to a very large extent separated ourselves from the traditional positions granted by nature. We saw the world as it was, and decided that it was not the world we wanted. And very slowly, we changed it to suit our own needs: we erected buildings, created government, communication, war, countries, diplomacy, technology, economy, education, electricity, vehicles -- we've quite literally separated ourselves from nature to such a degree that comparing civilization to it almost seems like metaphor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegate of Life
    computing up our total energy consumption, it exceeds the amount of sunlight that falls on the surface of this planet. Which means, even at 100% energy utilization efficiency from the sun, we will suffer a loss of some technology and common services to make up for the resultant energy shortage unless Nuclear sources are employed
    That's, uh ... just completely not true. o_o

    The amount of solar energy that hits the planet is astoundingly enormous; a total of 89,000 terawatts average. By comparison, the entire average global energy consumption is on the scale of about 10 terawatts or so. Thus, the amount of potential solar energy is over 8,000 times that of the global consumption.

    The problem arises from building efficient enough solar panels (most current technologies are incredibly inefficient; 80 to 98% of the energy is wasted), finding the space to put all the solar panels (since the energy is spread over the entire planet it makes it inefficient per square mile), and dealing with the fact that 50% of the time your generators are going to be completely worthless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos Proxy
    Using technology "evolves" you? (Directed at *when you can do it in just a few minutes* part)
    I don't know of any technology that can literally 'evolve' us, but he may have been referring to drugs and chemicals (such as caffeine) that can provide a momentary boost.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos Proxy
    Who says earth is ours to use/abuse? You? Your "God"? Man written laws?
    The Earth is ours because we control its resources to a degree that all other animals combined can only dream of. Likewise, the only obstacles that exist to say otherwise are other humans. We are, for all intents and purposes, completely in control. At least, insofar as we are capable of maintaining and controlling our technology.

    My thoughts: At the risk of sounding egotistical, either personally or towards my species, I think that humanity brought something astoundingly special to the planet Earth -- intelligence. Just look at our world, 4.6 billion years of evolution and what did it amount to? Nothing. A billion generations of creatures hiding away, stealing morsels and killing prey whenever possible and then mating to pass the same fate onto the next generation.

    Every creature before us had but a single objective in their life, a single purpose: survive long enough to bear offspring. That was it. That was Earth. All the potential energy in the oil, the coal, the gases, water. All the potential art on every tree and cave and field everywhere, possibly inspired by every sunset, landscape, cave, ocean or even tree. All the potential for life, art, wonder and beauty in the world and where did it go? What did it all do? Absolutely nothing. It sat dormant. It sat by and watched as the creatures all around slaughtered and killed one another for the sake of just barely surviving long enough to pass the same fate onto their children.

    Then humanity came. Suddenly, the world wasn't just a violent, meaningless mass of nature -- along with humanity came art, came beauty. Suddenly, everything in the world, all the potential that was once purposeless had a meaning. Suddenly the beauty of the world could be seen, appreciated and even reproduced.

    This morning I left my house and the first thing I saw was a beautiful sunrise to my left. Despite the fact that I was nearly late for the bus I stood and gazed in awe of it for a good half-minute before moving on. What animal have you seen do this? What animal have you seen discuss this? Haven't any of you ever looked at a skyscraper and thought, "What a wonder of architecture -- and indeed, humanity -- that a hundred or thousand men came together in unison to build this marvelous work of art."

    Even war -- the violence of humanity at its pinnacle, has its own beauty. B-29s roaring across the sky almost as if it were an elegant dance, again uniting together for a single purpose: this time that of reeking havoc below. At the same time men -- soldiers of a country, patriots -- fire their anti-air machine guns desperately attempting to take down the enemy before they themselves can be ended. A desperate struggle between two factions of the same creature. And then look at the alternative: a pack of wolves strangling a defenseless rabbit or a hawk clawing away at already dead prey. And without humanity there wouldn't even be a being to observe the beauty in that.

    Even if humanity were to end tomorrow, we would have brought something to this planet that it never had in the past and may well never have again. If humanity ended, nature would once again be nothing but a mass of creatures -- not even aware of their own existence -- struggling and fighting near eternally just to survive long enough for their children to survive and grow.

    You would all honestly prefer a world without art, beauty, communication, self-awareness, or indeed, control? I don't see the appeal in a world like that, in fact, in reminds no appeal at all.

  24. #24
    Banned Forum / Chat Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray has a reputation beyond repute Amray's Avatar
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    Humans are Selfish, therefore we are Human.
    The Human nature is all basically the same, we all have the same basic looks, same basic needs, same limbs, same body build-up, same organs, and etc. But its just the personality and our desires that make us different from eachother.

    I think.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legend Saber

    Hyperbole to the greatest degree. Our entire world system would collapse if only 5% of the population were supporting it. Not to mention the fact that, in most countries, people have to perform jobs to acquire the money needed to survive. These jobs usually benefit the rest of us in a manner (even if indirectly or to a minuscule degree), which justifies their existence.

    You are missing the point, I said about 95% of people have no reason to exist, meaning they just are, they just do what they think it's right. Their goals have no meaning, their lives have no meaning, their deaths will have no meaning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legend Saber
    Unless you want to get nihilistic on me and say that there's no purpose to the Universe at all and every action that can be taken is objectively no different from any other. >_>
    No, don't worry, I'm not like that.
    But I do beleive what we are doing right isn't the right thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legend Saber
    I dun remember Nostradamus predicting the world would end in 2008. =/
    Nobody said world would end .. I'm talking about World War Three.
    Anyway depends what Nostradamus translation you have read, there are like ~5 diffrent or maybe even more. But the latest and most known says this. His predictions are nearly identical with Cayce predictions, and if you would look at the global news ..


    Quote Originally Posted by Legend Saber
    That's a myth. We use our entire brains through the course of our lives, but rarely more than 5-10% at a given time. This is similar to how you never use 100% of your physical body at once (well, you can, but they're usually called seizures <_<. Every part of the brain is tuned for a different function; using all of it as once would just lead to mass confusion.

    A myth you say? Then you could say nearly everything they say is a myth. We don't know how to move things with our minds, do we? Well, there are people who can do it, and there are documented proofs about it. We can't sense weak sounds, we can't levitate, we can see only about 6% of our surroundings, we understand so little about everything paranormal and so on .. but there are people who can do some of these things, so basically there is a function in our brain what allows us to do these things, but only very few have accidentally discovered it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legend Saber
    The very fact that we're aware of existence puts us on a plateau higher than 99.9999% of the species of animals to ever be born on planet Earth.
    Why do you think the animals don't know about their existence on this planet? Because your teacher says so?

    Quote Originally Posted by Legend Saber
    We know more about it than any other creature to ever traverse the Earth.
    This is what you may call a myth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legend Saber
    We deny everything that should be denied. I think it more a failure of humanity that people would blindly believe stories without further evidence.
    People deny everything without even tryng to understand it, they will deny it even if they see it. That's our science nowdays. If it's impossible by "laws" then it is impossible. For them.
    Nobody is asking anyone to blindly beleive anything, oh no. But people deny everything what seems even just a little weird to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legend Saber
    In a way, we are. We've separated ourselves from the natural world and created our own in its stead. No other single species on the planet holds the degree of control humans do.
    How do you know? There are some theories we are being controlled by shape shifters. Now just try to prove it right or wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legend Saber
    We do what any other creature would do in our place, and we do it in a far more humane manner.
    Human manner you say .. no offence ... but please, educate yourself about this part. You have seriously no idea what you're talking about.
    I just WISH I could unsee what I've seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legend Saber
    We seek only what every other creature on the planet has seeked and ever will seek: comfort.
    What's with this comment? Tryng to say that we do not destory the planet for our own good?
    Comfort can be found also by leaving the nature alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legend Saber
    Does any creature deserve to live? It isn't as if the world was handed to humans on a silver platter; we worked and worked for thousands of years before acquiring the level of civilization seen today. Each generation out-performed the last, passing down information and technology and knowledge. It is only through our knowledge we advanced -- knowledge that we had to discover for ourselves and by ourselves, with little outside assistance.

    And we're growing like a virus. Less than ~500 years ago our number was in few hundred millions, and that was acceptable.
    But now we're killing off everyone else to make room for more and more humans, we depend on techonlogy and each other, we are evolving wrong.
    We are not needed in such big masses.


    Quote Originally Posted by Legend Saber
    We were given lemons by nature and we made lemonade. How does this make us less worthy of existence than any other creature to exist before us?
    Nobody gave us anything, we brutally made the world as it is today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legend Saber
    The Earth is ours because we control its resources to a degree that all other animals combined can only dream of. Likewise, the only obstacles that exist to say otherwise are other humans. We are, for all intents and purposes, completely in control. At least, insofar as we are capable of maintaining and controlling our technology.

    My thoughts: At the risk of sounding egotistical, either personally or towards my species, I think that humanity brought something astoundingly special to the planet Earth -- intelligence. Just look at our world, 4.6 billion years of evolution and what did it amount to? Nothing. A billion generations of creatures hiding away, stealing morsels and killing prey whenever possible and then mating to pass the same fate onto the next generation.

    Every creature before us had but a single objective in their life, a single purpose: survive long enough to bear offspring. That was it. That was Earth. All the potential energy in the oil, the coal, the gases, water. All the potential art on every tree and cave and field everywhere, possibly inspired by every sunset, landscape, cave, ocean or even tree. All the potential for life, art, wonder and beauty in the world and where did it go? What did it all do? Absolutely nothing. It sat dormant. It sat by and watched as the creatures all around slaughtered and killed one another for the sake of just barely surviving long enough to pass the same fate onto their children.

    Are you religious or something? What makes you think were the first race with intelligence and technology? As a matter of fact, we're the 5th.
    We are doing exactly the same as did the ones before us, nothing has changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legend Saber
    Then humanity came. Suddenly, the world wasn't just a violent, meaningless mass of nature -- along with humanity came art, came beauty. Suddenly, everything in the world, all the potential that was once purposeless had a meaning. Suddenly the beauty of the world could be seen, appreciated and even reproduced.
    The world is MUCH more violent that it was ever before. We kill everyone and everything for various reasons, like some animals are potentially dangerous, some of them are "too much". But before that killers killed only for food.
    The real art and beauty was the nature before us, everything was clean, everything was still normal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legend Saber
    This morning I left my house and the first thing I saw was a beautiful sunrise to my left. Despite the fact that I was nearly late for the bus I stood and gazed in awe of it for a good half-minute before moving on. What animal have you seen do this? What animal have you seen discuss this? Haven't any of you ever looked at a skyscraper and thought, "What a wonder of architecture -- and indeed, humanity -- that a hundred or thousand men came together in unison to build this marvelous work of art."

    Do you know why? Because you and most of the people here are living "happy lives". You haven't seen the real world yet, you have been living inside a shell, where noone could harm you, noone could show you what the reality is like.
    How many % of people around the world have to worry about their lives daily? How many of them will get to eat maybe once in a week? How many animals are being tortured and killed just because "normal" people like you could have something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legend Saber
    Even war -- the violence of humanity at its pinnacle, has its own beauty. B-29s roaring across the sky almost as if it were an elegant dance, again uniting together for a single purpose: this time that of reeking havoc below. At the same time men -- soldiers of a country, patriots -- fire their anti-air machine guns desperately attempting to take down the enemy before they themselves can be ended. A desperate struggle between two factions of the same creature. And then look at the alternative: a pack of wolves strangling a defenseless rabbit or a hawk clawing away at already dead prey. And without humanity there wouldn't even be a being to observe the beauty in that.
    This is a matter of taste, if you really like to watch a piece of metal flyng with bombs .. be my guest.
    Patriots you say? Rather brainwashed fools, they beleive they are fighting on the "right" side and will help by going to the war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legend Saber
    Even if humanity were to end tomorrow, we would have brought something to this planet that it never had in the past and may well never have again. If humanity ended, nature would once again be nothing but a mass of creatures -- not even aware of their own existence -- struggling and fighting near eternally just to survive long enough for their children to survive and grow.
    Again, don't be so sure about animals knowledge. I'm quite sure they do know that they exist.
    Humans are also just a mass of creatures, but theres too much of us and yet we cannot limit ourselves because of the laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legend Saber
    You would all honestly prefer a world without art, beauty, communication, self-awareness, or indeed, control? I don't see the appeal in a world like that, in fact, in reminds no appeal at all.
    I've never said that, but the things I see beauty/art are much more diffrent what you see them as.
    The breathing of the ancient ones are seldom felt
    I alone have torn their dreams apart.



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