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Thread: thoughts on abortion

  1. #1
    Senior Member full metal alchemist is infamous around these parts full metal alchemist is infamous around these parts full metal alchemist is infamous around these parts full metal alchemist is infamous around these parts full metal alchemist's Avatar
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    Default thoughts on abortion

    my thoughts on abortion are that its wrong because you are not giving a new born child the right to passage in this world, i can understand if its a cause of rape but a lot are from having unsafe sex, just decidning to not want the baby anymore etc.

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    If a person is considered dead after they stop breathing and yet still their body retains some function, then why should a person be considered alive BEFORE they breath? I am 100% pro-abortion.

  3. #3
    Senior Member full metal alchemist is infamous around these parts full metal alchemist is infamous around these parts full metal alchemist is infamous around these parts full metal alchemist is infamous around these parts full metal alchemist's Avatar
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    you dont get it i mean these poeple dont even give their baby a chance to live and you dont have to be breathing to live u Removed, dont u get it. ok heres an example sey you have unsafe sex and get pregnant are you gonna just throw his or her chance to live, we all got a chance to live and so sgould babies that havnt been born yet thta poeple just throw away like there some kind of trash well then tell me this would give up your own if you got pregnant?

    Stop right there. I will not allow you to call others names like that. Everyone is entitled to there views and opinions.
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    Last edited by Bean Bandit; 03-10-2005 at 03:36 AM.
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  4. #4
    Guardian and Protector WeyrDragon will become famous soon enough WeyrDragon's Avatar
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    you know, there was a thread on this, so i figure, ill quote myself instead of retyping it

    Quote Originally Posted by WeyrDragon
    My view on this is completely non-religious. I think abortion to a certain point is a completely acceptable choice for a woman to take. If this child is not going to get the support and care from its parents that it needs then what is the point in having the child suffer in this family setting. And i know many of you will say "well why cant she give birth to the child and put it up for adoption?" Many women do not have the emotional stability to be forced to part with their child after it has been born and become extremely emotionally attached to their child, which makes it harder for many women to give up that child, and thus they force it into a household that cannot take care of it, but refuses to let others take care of it for mere emotional reasons.

    A reason why abortion is a bad idea is because it is physicially unhealthy for a woman to have an abortion, and because a birth itself can prevent many later health defects in a woman later on in her life, almost as if a purge of the system. I'm sure many of you understand the risks taken in an abortion and understand the health hazards that can impose on a woman if the child is aborted.

    In all reality though, it should never have to come to this, but unfortunately our society is morally depraved in the sense that we have many couples having unsafe intercourse out of wedlock and having and aborting the unwanted children that come about from this. So really we should ask ourselves... not that abortion is wrong or right... but why does it need to exist in the first place?

    As for underage sex, i am disgusted by it, Morals and Ethics have completely gone down the toilet as time has gone on, these days its almost a joke to be my age (19) and still a virgin, when most people hear that they start laughing. God forbid that we have people with strong moral values. A lot of this i think also comes from the fact that recently, most parents and their children are no longer close, and can't talk with each other about these things, and instead the child goes to his/her friends, and is encouraged to engage in these activities, but i guess it really comes down to what the person feels is right for them, though i think anytime before 18 is just too soon.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by full metal alchemist
    i can understand if its a cause of rape but a lot are from having unsafe sex, just decidning to not want the baby anymore etc.
    It's not a matter of not wanting the baby anymore, it's a matter of never wanted the baby at all. Picture this: You're having a fun night with your boyfriend, you get drunk, get cozy and the next thing you know: you are pregnant! Now this might be great if you and your boyfriend always wanted one, but what if it was a one-timer? Then you're stuck with having to care for a child on your own, wich is not as easy as it sounds.

    Oh, and a small lump of cells without consious thought is not something I call alive enough to call it murder.
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    even if some people call it murder, its better then bringing a un-wanted baby into a world that never wanted it. if you take away the right for an abortion what will you say when there are more and more reports of people holding a pillow over a babies head because they never wanted it and want to get rid of it.
    its better to "kill" (if that even is the right word for it) the baby before it becomes self aware and is still just a bunch of cells.

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    Quote Originally Posted by red storm
    It's not a matter of not wanting the baby anymore, it's a matter of never wanted the baby at all. Picture this: You're having a fun night with your boyfriend, you get drunk, get cozy and the next thing you know: you are pregnant! Now this might be great if you and your boyfriend always wanted one, but what if it was a one-timer? Then you're stuck with having to care for a child on your own, wich is not as easy as it sounds.

    Oh, and a small lump of cells without consious thought is not something I call alive enough to call it murder.
    I agree with you, completely... also part of what QoM said.

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  8. #8
    Illusionist Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon Lon's Avatar
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    First off. Let me say that I do not support the topic or act of abortion. If you want or care to know my reasons read my post in like thread 1 of the "Teen Sexual Experience: Right of Passage or just plain wrong" thread.

    Abortion is murder. Plain and simple. You are taking from and denying the life to and of an inocent life born out of a mistake YOU made. This is of course assuming that you did not plan to have a baby first, then decide after your pregnent that you no longer want one. If you don't want to have a kid, then don't have sex. IF you choose to use counterception then you risk impregnation on a roll of the dice - so to speak. By aborting a child you are carring instead of say, putting it up for adoption, you are causing the child to pay for the mistake that you made. I have no sympothy here.

    Lets consider some other disturbing facts.

    If a man talks dirty to a woman, its Sexuall Harrassment.
    If a woman talks dirty to a man, its $9.95 a minute.

    If a man plans to, and carries through with a plot to murder someone then it is called Murder in the Second Degree. (punishable by life in prison or death)
    If a woman plans to murder or abort her child and does it.... its called a choice.

    The system is NOT balanced.

    Originally Posted by red storm
    It's not a matter of not wanting the baby anymore, it's a matter of never wanted the baby at all. Picture this: You're having a fun night with your boyfriend, you get drunk, get cozy and the next thing you know: you are pregnant! Now this might be great if you and your boyfriend always wanted one, but what if it was a one-timer? Then you're stuck with having to care for a child on your own, wich is not as easy as it sounds.


    First off, assuming the general age levels of the people that come here, I would have to ask WHAT you were doing drunk in the first place. Drinking is Illegal until the age of 21 for reasons. Mostly dealing with maturity levels of kids.

    Now, lets play devils advocate and assume that you are over the age of 21. The situation you describe shows a bit of irresponsability on the part of you and your boyfriend. I could launch into many a rant on how women today should not get drunk around boys as they become sexual pray. Or I could preach at how if you are going to have sex, then the use of counterception should atleast be attempted, or just don't have sex at all. However I think this line here says it best to make my point.
    but what if it was a one-timer? Then you're stuck with having to care for a child on your own,

    You should not be having sex for the sake of the pleasurable experience. Sex is a bodily function designed to serve for procreation and continuing of the human existance. You would not use a CD tray in your computer for a coffe cup holder... it wasn't designed for that. Sex isn't designed for a cheap thrill. In your situation you described in the above line quote: You describe an irresponsible choice, which consiquince results in something that you by far did not expect. To answer the second half of that line... No it ISN'T easy. It can out right suck! But to take the life of that child that did NOTHING but be there because of your actions is selfish... and wrong. At least put the kid up for adoption first. For god sake have a heart.

    The ONLY arguement I would consider is the topic of rape. ONLY in the case of the woman not wanting to take part in sexual intercourse and being forced to do so by the male partner would I even come close to considering abortion a viable option. And even then, murder is murder. I would urge the option of adoption first.
    Last edited by Lon; 03-09-2005 at 06:33 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon
    First off, assuming the general age levels of the people that come here, I would have to ask WHAT you were doing drunk in the first place. Drinking is Illegal until the age of 21 for reasons. Mostly dealing with maturity levels of kids.
    I only meant that as an example. But even so, you hold the laws of your country for that. In Holland, one can get drunk legally as soon as he/she hits 16.
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    Gonna throw in my two cents on this topic just because... well I can.
    First of Lon, you've taken quite a side there and seeing as I'm on the opposite side I'll argue my points of it.... then again I've been on your side, for a class debate, some good arguements you have there.

    Talking on the issue of getting drunk and it happening by accident - Legal age here is 18yrs old. You're going to tell me that because a woman wants to drink with her friends she should do it in her home and not at a club or a bar because some guy might pick her up? That seems a little unfair that a woman is outcast of a social circle because she is sexual prey... but if you say so.
    Going off on a tagent... what about rape? A rapist isn't going to think of the woman first and use a condom, he's going to rape her. What if she gets pregnant that way? What if now she has a child she can't afford to take care of? What is she going to do now? Is the child going to starve, be neglected? Tossed from home to home as child support workers kick in and take the child away?

    How is it a life if it's not alive... if you take the child in the fetus stage it's not alive... sorry it's not.
    IT's like a plant. In it's seedling stage... it's a seed not a plant it's not alive and it's needs water, sunlight and care to grow.

    Now a woman who lives on the streets gets pregnant, want her to bring up a child? On the streets?

    How would you like to be the child that knows he's unwanted?

    It's not about prochoice when a woman has an abortion and don't think it's easy on the woman. It's about the child and considering how the child will live.

    If I was brought up as an unwanted child, knowing this I might take my own life... and maybe others with me...

    Just my pov

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    People should just stop dong it and play with themselves

    or just use condoms

    or just have mating seasons, like the doggies
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  12. #12
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    abortion plain and simple is murder you have the option of giving it up to some one responsible, not just killing it and getting on with your life, if you are pro abortion then you are pro death, i myself do not support abortion.
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    Pardon? Giving it up to someone? Sure if they want it that's an option. But what if they dont?
    What if they do the same amount of damage to the child that you would have done.

    I'm pro-death penalty too... does that make me a murderer? Sure I guess... Would ---I--- do it? Would I have an abortion? No. but for some people out there, I can see an abortion as a better option than what they do do.

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    I am pro choice because I believe everyone should have that choice on whether they want to keep that baby or not. I could never have an abortion though. I wouldn't be able to go through with it and I'd feel so guilty afterwards.

    I didn't interpret what Lon said into that women were social outcasts. I took it as use your head and make sure you don't get into in a situation where you might end up with an unwanted pregnancy. That is the main problem I see with most of these example situations that people are giving. Everyone seems to be giving an excuse to act reckless and that it's no big deal if you get pregnant because you can just get rid of it. That to me is the wrong way to think. If you aren't ready to deal with the consequences of your actions then you aren't ready for anything yet.
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    Let me go into my history. I AM the unwanted child. I grew up knowing this. I knew what abortion was since I was old enough to talk. It just didn't sink in until I was in my early teens.

    My mother was the town *****. She was a {word meaning one who engages in sexual acts for financial compensation has been redacted}, a prostitue. I don't use these words derogatory. I use them simply as they are ment. My mother was sexually premescuitious with several men all during the time period that I was assumed to have been conceved. I have no idea who my natural father is due to the fact that my mother can't remember if she was sober or drunk the night she was impregnated let alone who she was sleeping with at that time. Yes... this is phsychologacly damaging. But I've lived with it for 24 years. I'll survive.

    Now.. once she found out she was pregnent her imediate reaction was to schedual an abortion. Keep in mind, that this is ME that was going to die. Her father and mother, my grand parents were HOTLY against the topic. Horray for good old southern / christain mentality. Perhaps the only thing that saved my life. They refused to let my mother put me to death via abortion. She WOULD put me up for adoption, so arragements were made with a close family friends. A Newly married older couple that desperatly wanted another child. These two later became known to me as my mother and father. I loved them both. I burried my father when i was 10, but thats another sob story.

    Now, back to my natural egg doner. I refuse to dignify that woman with the title of mother. She flatly did not like the idea of having a baby. So if she could not have me aborted medically, she chose to take it into her own hands. Now, where her miserable excuse for a life style begins and where her deranged sence of dealing with things ends I will never know. HOWEVER, she tried drinking alcohol, and eating junk food essesivly to abort me. Didn't work. She tried drugs, failed. She did everything in her power to avoid my birth, and yet... low and behold I am here. The only thing that kept me from being killed is her parents refusing her the abortion. Thank freaking GOD that SOMEONE out there shares my view point!
    Yes... knowing all that I do DOES have a way of screwing with your head. I've felt quite angery about the entire subject, and I still do.
    As I said, rape is the ONLY situation I can even remotely come close to concenting that abortion may be a viable option. I still incist that adoption be used first though.
    I am cold, callused, and quick to damn anyone that chooses abortion as an option only because of my personal situation. For me to personally condone abortion would be to condone what my egg doner would have done. And that I don't. And a Hypocrite I will not be.
    I avoid this subject as much as possible due to the amount of energy this subject causes to erupt.

    But I assure you when I say... I have lead that life. and I far rather live the life that I've been delt , than have been aborted and never known what it is to live in the first place.

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    I dont think that I should answer this one, but hey, why not. I personally think that it is wrong, but I wont force my opinions on anyone else. It is wrong, just because you cant make an opinion on it unless youve seen one take place (like they made me watch for my confirmation class) or have had to live with it in your life like apparently Lon has. People who say that the fetus is not alive should go watch one, the kinds that have the micro-fiber camera or sono-cam focused on the fetus and watch it. Then, tell me that the child is not alive. Until then, I do believe that the only way that this is acceptable is through the rape scenario, and even then, should be weighed heavily.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by red storm
    It's not a matter of not wanting the baby anymore, it's a matter of never wanted the baby at all. Picture this: You're having a fun night with your boyfriend, you get drunk, get cozy and the next thing you know: you are pregnant! Now this might be great if you and your boyfriend always wanted one, but what if it was a one-timer? Then you're stuck with having to care for a child on your own, wich is not as easy as it sounds.

    Oh, and a small lump of cells without consious thought is not something I call alive enough to call it murder.

    Actions have consequences, if you are unable to deal with the consequences of your actions maybe you shouldn't be doing those actions. This is proving why abortion SHOULD be illegal. Maybe kids will realize that they have to take responsibility for the things that they do.

    You're stuck caring for something that YOU created out of an immature decision. You're right its not easy, but then again maybe you should have thought about that before had.

    And there are organisms that are just 1 cell and they are VERY MUCH alive. SO why is a single cell that develops into a human being any different?

    Again all you've proved is that kids today are more immature and irresponsible than of past years, and its SCARY now. You could DIE. Before the worst was just having a kid, but having unprotected sex could lead to a plethora of STD's, a lot being uncurable, and even HIV... my God you have to be a down right FOOL now a days to have unprotected sex.

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  18. #18
    The weasel God sjøpølse has a brilliant future sjøpølse has a brilliant future sjøpølse has a brilliant future sjøpølse has a brilliant future sjøpølse has a brilliant future sjøpølse has a brilliant future sjøpølse has a brilliant future sjøpølse has a brilliant future sjøpølse has a brilliant future sjøpølse has a brilliant future sjøpølse has a brilliant future sjøpølse's Avatar
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    Yes, unwanted pregnancies SHOULD not happen. Condoms + pills = best match yet. But still, they do happen. As I said in the other thread, the fetus or embryos thus evacuated may be somewhat conscious, but still not enough to be fully aware of their own existence and to care not to exist anymore. And even if they would be, I think the decision is still all the mother's or the couple's. Personally, if I were found pregnant and did not have the possibility to abort, I think I'd do it anyways, in a unsafe and disgusting way, like cleaning my uterus with a spoon or tickling the fetus with kneeting needles, like they did it in "the good ol' fashioned way".

    My second point is: what do you all hold against sex? Or sex before marriage, if you prefer. Considering my own cultural and historical environment (quebecker, or french-canadian), where we had to fight to get rid of religion and religion's grasp over our lives, only considering the idea of "no sex before marriage, it's wrong" seems like a regression to me. Just to situate my own point. Now, if someone could really explain me, why, besides "because the Bible says so", one should not have sex before marriage, let me know it.

    Third, just to clarify a point: here, the legal age for BUYING alcohol is 18, but you get fully reponsible of your body at the age of 14 (which means you can get drunk - but not buy alcohol -, you can have sex, go the doctor alone and have him keeping professional secret over all your files). We are not all ruled by the laws of the great and grand USA.
    Last edited by sjøpølse; 03-09-2005 at 05:14 PM. Reason: missing word
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  19. #19
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    well i dont think abortion is right.
    but say the parents or parent couldnt care for baby.
    but then there is the whole thing of adoption.
    i guess its all up to what kind of person u are.
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  20. #20
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    I thought there was already a thread on this??.... No wait.. we turned it into one... >_<

    I belive abortion should be an option for those who want it. If you believe abortion is wrong, simply don't do it, or encourage others to. But don't hold grudges on people who (I don't want to say agree, but..) accept abortion, because they have their motives for believing, just like you yourself do.

    For children who are orphans.. living in foster homes because their parents didn't want them.. how do you think they feel? If a person becomes pregnant, and realises they cannot care for their child, what would you expect them to do?

    I'm not saying all cases are like that, but it's more or less an example. The point to this is that give people the option. They have rights and know what decision they must make.

  21. #21
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    Most of this artical is from what I said on another thread when this topic came up, but is still my view on my matters.

    Abortion, no I do not think this is right! For the first reason, I am adopted, and if my mom had aborted me then I would not be liveing. Also, what gives any person the right to kill another human.
    If you kill a person in self defence, you still killed them, but you have the feeling that you are justified, because they would have killed you otherwise. But, to kill a baby under the excuse that you don't think you can care for it, or you don't think it would have a good life being in foster care, or that you are not emotionaly ready to care for a child, or any other reason ,OTHER THAN if would kill you, are just excueses that just mean that you did "it" to many times and you want a quick way out of it. Abortion is just a so called "leagal" way to murder to get rid of your responsiabality. People pro-death use it to get rid of there burden of responsiability. Even if someone does get pregnet, they could put there child up for adoption and give it to a loveing home. It would be beter than just killing it off! Every child sould be given the chance to live. If you would like to see were I got my argument from, than I suggest you read the book "On a Pale Horse" by Perice Anthoney.

    "My life is my most treasured thing I have..." Richard R'hal - From the Sword of Truth series. I suggest the Sword of Truth Series if you want to know my view on the rape abortion issue.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bløthøne
    Yes, unwanted pregnancies SHOULD not happen. Condoms + pills = best match yet. But still, they do happen. As I said in the other thread, the fetus or embryos thus evacuated may be somewhat conscious, but still not enough to be fully aware of their own existence and to care not to exist anymore. And even if they would be, I think the decision is still all the mother's or the couple's. Personally, if I were found pregnant and did not have the possibility to abort, I think I'd do it anyways, in a unsafe and disgusting way, like cleaning my uterus with a spoon or tickling the fetus with kneeting needles, like they did it in "the good ol' fashioned way".

    My second point is: what do you all hold against sex? Or sex before marriage, if you prefer. Considering my own cultural and historical environment (quebecker, or french-canadian), where we had to fight to get rid of religion and religion's grasp over our lives, only considering the idea of "no sex before marriage, it's wrong" seems like a regression to me. Just to situate my own point. Now, if someone could really explain me, why, besides "because the Bible says so", one should not have sex before marriage, let me know it.

    Third, just to clarify a point: here, the legal age for BUYING alcohol is 18, but you get fully reponsible of your body at the age of 14 (which means you can get drunk - but not buy alcohol -, you can have sex, go the doctor alone and have him keeping professional secret over all your files). We are not all ruled by the laws of the great and grand USA.
    Underage sex is based upon a set of moral principles. While these principles more than likely stemmed from one religion or another, the underlying necessity for them is quite great. Laws are based upon accepted Moral norms. If there were no morals, then laws would not exist, crimes and criminals would not exist, but the world would be full of chaos. I'm not saying a person should not have sex before marriage, but the mistake people make is that no matter what forms of prevention you use, pregnancies still happen. I myself have an extremely strong set of moral values and absolutely no religion behind it. A 14 year old girl should not have to go through the mental anguish of 1. being pregnant 2. abortion 3. putting their child up for adoption.

    the only 100% safe method from becoming pregnant is abstinence, and a child is better off growing up in a household with two parents, this is where the no sex before marriage thing comes into play. I hate to re-bring up a bunch of points so just look earlier on in this thread where i quote myself from another very similar thread.

    Personally, while i may be amoral, i still believe in pro-choice, i have heard people say you shouldn't abort no matter what, even if the mothers life would be endangered if she gave birth. This is foolish, the mother's life is certainly more important than the child's, for socio-political reasons.

    I do support choice in people having sex when they want, but that does not mean i'm not allowed to be upset by two 12 year olds engaging in intercourse. If i ever grow up to be a father, i would never want any daughter of mine to be doing such a thing, or my son.

  23. #23
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    I think it's wrong. It's not the baby's fault it was made. It's not the baby's fault their parents had sex, and therefor should not be punished for their actions. They should live with that fake and either not have sex or take birth control. Simply put.



  24. #24
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    Don't have sex? Sex is a natural, physical thing. Here's an idea, don't WALK. That's basically how absurd the idea of "Don't have sex" is. Now, i'm not saying people should start having sex right away, but more to the point of when they're ready and willing. If birth control pills PREVENT a child from being born, shouldn't that be illegal as well? Hell, let's make condoms illegal since they do the same thing. Your body is YOURS to do with. If you want tattoos, piercings and sex, then so be it. That fetus until first breath IS part of your body. If we can remove a kidney, what not a fetus?

    Another thing I haven't seen in this thread. What if the mother's life is in danger? This IS a living, breathing, walking and LEGALLY living being. Why put both the fetus AND mother in danger when you can escape death and try for another child?

    One more thing. Does anyone around here have any idea as to how many children are orphans? Yeah, people like Lon were lucky because they HAD a family waiting. I'm glad there are people like that in the world, but what if EVERY child was born? Not only are most projects underfunded, but they are at capacity. Abortions do keep teenage mothers from dumping their babies in dumpsters then running away.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queen-of-Mars
    Don't have sex? Sex is a natural, physical thing. Here's an idea, don't WALK. That's basically how absurd the idea of "Don't have sex" is. Now, i'm not saying people should start having sex right away, but more to the point of when they're ready and willing. If birth control pills PREVENT a child from being born, shouldn't that be illegal as well? Hell, let's make condoms illegal since they do the same thing. Your body is YOURS to do with. If you want tattoos, piercings and sex, then so be it. That fetus until first breath IS part of your body. If we can remove a kidney, what not a fetus?

    Another thing I haven't seen in this thread. What if the mother's life is in danger? This IS a living, breathing, walking and LEGALLY living being. Why put both the fetus AND mother in danger when you can escape death and try for another child?

    One more thing. Does anyone around here have any idea as to how many children are orphans? Yeah, people like Lon were lucky because they HAD a family waiting. I'm glad there are people like that in the world, but what if EVERY child was born? Not only are most projects underfunded, but they are at capacity. Abortions do keep teenage mothers from dumping their babies in dumpsters then running away.
    I got a couple things to say about this. First is that I respect your opinion, but strongly disagree with it. Second is that I did mention the issue that I underlined from what you said. Third, I suggest that you read what I posted a little bit ago, it answers most of what you said.
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