android 18 vs. pan

**Hayabusa** · 11-09-2005 06:57 AM

vote for if you think pan or 18 would win in a fight or is hotter whichever you feel like

**animeseishi** · 11-10-2005 03:46 AM

wrong forum...
but ill answer anyway.. android 18...i like her better..

**Shiryuu** · 11-10-2005 10:23 PM

Fight: Pan, saiyans are generally stronger.
Hotter: 18, I don't think she ages (I didn't see much of GT so I'm not sure)

**Jamula** · 11-10-2005 10:57 PM

I don't know what you are even talking about!

**-Batman-** · 11-10-2005 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by Shiryuu

Fight: Pan, saiyans are generally stronger.
Hotter: 18, I don't think she ages (I didn't see much of GT so I'm not sure)

Super sayian Vegeta, a seasoned warrior and one of the strongest fighters on the planet....if i recall correctly, at some point 18 handed his butt to him without breaking a sweat.
Now i ask you this, does pan have enough power to take on a super sayian, when she, a sayian herself can not even go super sayian? the answer to that question is no.
And pan is what? 13? By the ages of 7 and 8 both Goten and Trunks (SUPER SAYIANS) both took her on at the same time (wearing a retarded costume) and they had trouble.
Just because pan is a sayain doesn't mean anything. Remember, Dr. Gero created ALL of his androids for a reason, which was to combat Goku and kill him(to to help Cell achive perfection, but thats not the point here). Goku is the strongest fighter in the universe, do you honestly think Gero would pull any punches in his android designs?
18, despite being a supporting character after the Android saga, see's her fair share of fighting.
-Vegeta(super sayian)
-Cell
-Broly clone (aka Swamp Thing)
-Super 17 (of course, this is more so stalling)
-Goten
-Chibi Trunks
-Trunks(super sayian)
And of course, her most DIFFICULT oponant ever
the almight champ
-=HERCULE=-

who does pan honestly fight?
She stalls some of Dr. Mews androids and gets her butt handed to her by most of the shenron's, while waiting for goku to come save her because all she did was get in the way and act as a plot device.
There would be no reason to vote for pan because of her over-all uselessness. I honestly think GT would be better if she never existed.

So, i think it's a bit obvious who i voted for.

**Seed of Destruction** · 11-10-2005 11:37 PM

I agree with Redfield22 san on this one. My vote goes to Android 18. That is all... for now.

**Shiryuu** · 11-10-2005 11:44 PM

Each generation gets stronger and stronger, so it makes sense that she would be stronger than Goten and Trunks and etc. I didn't watch much of GT so I just went with that.

And why are you just comparing them when they we're kids? In the end of GT, they showed Pan at an old age, she could've easily been much stronger in her prime. While Android 18 has the same power all throughout Z (and probably GT).

**ESCAFLOWNE** · 11-10-2005 11:47 PM

This is a easy question, 18 is alot stronger then pan in just about every single way possible.They did not make pan a super strong character or anything, unlike 18 who is feared and can beat a basic ssj.And pan is the daughter of a half sayian and a human, that makes her not be able to go ssj.So if a normal ssj can not beat 18, then how can pan have a chance?

**Shiryuu** · 11-10-2005 11:52 PM

So if a normal ssj can not beat 18, then how can pan have a chance?

In GT, kid Goku pretty much had the same power as a basic SSJ. So why not Pan(at a little bit older age)?

There's no point in comparing a child Pan with a grown up 18.

**Gaignun Zero** · 11-10-2005 11:58 PM

Android 18 is an automaton? Interesting fact: Android 18 is an automaton like Chii chan. How does one spell victory? Gaignun Zero says that Android 18 might win against Pan.

**-Batman-** · 11-11-2005 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by Shiryuu

Each generation gets stronger and stronger, so it makes sense that she would be stronger than Goten and Trunks and etc. I didn't watch much of GT so I just went with that.

And why are you just comparing them when they we're kids? In the end of GT, they showed Pan at an old age, she could've easily been much stronger in her prime. While Android 18 has the same power all throughout Z (and probably GT).

That logic is flawed.

Goku, Vegeta-Pure blood Sayians, the strongest fighters in the universe, only people to reach SS4
Broly- Pure blood sayian, the only "Legendary" super sayian in the entire universe of DBZ.
Gohan, Goten, Trunks,Bra- Half sayians, exclusing gohan, they only have the ability to reach super sayian 1 unless fused. Even in GT goten and trunks STILL can't go past SS1.(bra can't even get to SS1, and thats surprising seeing as how Vegeta of all people is her father)
Pan-Quarter sayian, can't even go super sayian.

They don't get stronger every generation, for all we know they get weaker.
When a sayian reaches a certain physical age, they stop ageing all together. By the end of DBZ, goku and Vegeta both look like they did when they faught with Buu. And in Gt they stayed the same as well.
Notice that pan becomes an old hag?

We can come to 2 deductions.

1. As the sayain gene shows less as the years go on, they strength of the sayian offspring is reduced.
2. Sayian female are only limited in strength and can never become super sayian( notice that neither pan, nor bra EVER go supersayian. And pan was trained by Goku AND Gohan. Also, Goku JR. and Vegeta JR. may both go super sayian, and those 2 are what? 1/8 of a sayian? but that might have just been a show to please fans at the end of the series and give them some hope for yet another sequal)

Plus, if you ever see the GT movie, pan is pretty sad. Pan can't make it to supersayian outside of fanfiction and fanart.

and are you sure 18 can't get stronger? remember the world tourny before the buu saga? she apeared to be training for the, only for a few seconds on screen, but still training. Why would she require training if she could NEVER get stronger? a lot could have happend in 7 years. Maybe krillian decided "Hey, i'm gona go collect the dragon balls and wish for 18 to become a full human!!!!!!"
They had plenty of time.

**Shiryuu** · 11-11-2005 12:31 AM

Like I said, its pointless to compare a kid Pan with a grown up 18. Its obvious that an adult 18 will beat child Pan in every category (fighting, hotness, etc.)

They don't get stronger every generation, for all we know they get weaker.

Goku and Vegeta are the only ones that have been fighting there whole life. Its obvoius they're going to be the strongest. Give that same time to everyone else, and it would be different. Also, each battle makes saiyans significantly stronger, even if they're not in SS mode.

Notice that pan becomes an old hag?

There's a difference between someone's prime, their childhood and being an old hag.

Sayian female are only limited in strength and can never become super sayian

Why does it matter if they can't go super saiyan or not? Piccollo wasn't even a saiyan and he got pretty strong.

Why would she require training if she could NEVER get stronger?

She could've been polishing her fighting skills. She was a mother, so she could've been rusty at fighting. If Klilin did change her to a human, then that's something else, but since I don't remember her getting old like Klilin did, I'm gonna assume he didn't do it.

**The Wing Man** · 11-11-2005 01:39 AM

Impossible for pan to beat 18, but i also have a argument with redfield22, i agree with you on everything besides that trunks and goten can go pass ss1 without fusion.Because if we remember when older trunks comes and fights cell, he is a ss2 and very powerful.But they can not go ss3 without fusion and gohan can go mystic, and as for Shiryuu.Pan can not go ss1 and will never be able to go ss1, she does not have enough sayian to reach that kinda power.If pan was 25 and training alot.She still would have no chance against 18 and that is kinda a dbz fact, it is obvious that pan would get owned very fast.

**-Batman-** · 11-11-2005 02:51 AM

Originally Posted by The Wing Man

Because if we remember when older trunks comes and fights cell, he is a ss2 and very powerful.But they can not

Technically, he never went super sayian 2. his "Super trunks" state is pretty much broly in trunks form, just not as impervious to damage. the first official super sayian 2 transformation was by Gohan during the end of the cell saga.
And aside from that...i was talking about the Buu saga/GT trunks (seeing as how the 2 are from a diffrent timeline)

and on the subject of Gohan, if he tried hard enough, he could have made SSJ4. Notice that out of all the half sayian babies born, he's the only one who had a tail(that we know of)

**Shiryuu** · 11-11-2005 05:44 AM

Originally Posted by The Wing Man

If pan was 25 and training alot.She still would have no chance against 18 and that is kinda a dbz fact, it is obvious that pan would get owned very fast.

...........

I don't know how accurate this is, but look at this:
A) http://www.myfavoritegames.com/drago...owerLevels.htm

According to that, Pan has 12,000,000 and 18 has 23,000,000.

Seeing as Pan is a saiyan, her power would significantly increase with each fight, even more so in a life-threatening one. I'm not sure how old she was during GT, but I'm going to assume she was less than thirteen. So, if she were to train and fight for twelve years at a rate of about 2,000,000 a year (which is insanely less compared to the others where they go from 7,000,000 to 75,000,000 in a couple of years) until she was 25, her powers would surpass 18's powers greatly in no time.

Even if you have the argument that 18 can increase her powers too, think about this: 18 does not have an alternate form (like all the other robots have), there's no way she can get any stronger. Even If she were to become human, that would just make her weaker. Human's rate of power increase is much much less compared to a saiyan's.

Pan can not go ss1 and will never be able to go ss1, she does not have enough sayian to reach that kinda power.

There's also this:
B) http://www.pojo.com/dragonball/power3.shtml (just so we have 2 sources to compare with)

When both sites are compared:

A) Goku (In the end of Z\normal) = 90,000,000
B) Goku (" " " " " " " " " "\normal) = 200,000,000
That's about 200% difference, so:

A) Pan (Normal Kid) = 12,000,000
B) Pan (Normal Kid) = around 24,000,000

A)Basic SSJ Goku (During Frieza Saga) = 11,500,000
B)Basic SSJ Goku (" " " " " " " " " " " " ")= 18,000,000

Now compare A\B)Basic SSJ Goku and A\B)Pan. Its pretty safe to assume that Pan has more than enough power to become a SSJ (If girls were able to begin with). Why would she need to anyways? She already has more than enough power.

Even if you were actually referring to her being 1\4 saiyan, then how can her grandkids (which have less) able to go SSJ? Its not really a matter of how much of a saiyan you are, its about the gender.

Originally Posted by Redfield22

and on the subject of Gohan, if he tried hard enough, he could have made SSJ4. Notice that out of all the half sayian babies born, he's the only one who had a tail(that we know of)

Goten had a tail as well.

**-Batman-** · 11-11-2005 12:04 PM

Really? never noticed gotens...Oh well.

moving on.

Past the freza saga, there are no official power levels, only fan estimites. Power levels can be read with scouters, seeing as how they were all destroyed on namek, i don't know HOW people are getting power levels, i dopn't recall anyone in the show EVER mentioning power levels after the Freza saga.

And you do have me on one thing. Pan's grand child can go super sayian, and he's less sayian than her. However, i will still stand by my theory that only Sayian men can go Super Sayian-jin. It makes sense seeing as how most of the sayian races greatest warriors were men(" its about the gender." which is pretty much what you said)

And to reply to this.

"Goku and Vegeta are the only ones that have been fighting there whole life,"

Thats not true, Gohan was training since he was what, 5 or 6? He became a Super Sayian-jin 2 by the time he was 14 years old, Goku couldn't even make it to super sayian untill he was at LEAST in his mid to late 20's.

Gohan however is an all together diffrent subject, because he's just all together gifted.Thats for another topic, so lets just get back on the 18/pan track shall we?

So sayians may be natrually stronger. But than again, so are Bio Androids, pink blobs that blow up planets, and dragons that form from 7 magicial balls that grant wishes. and sayians do NOT grow stronger from ever fight (well...they do, EVERYTHING that fights does, but it's not by much)
Vegeta said during the sayain saga that sayians get drastically stronger every time the heal from a near fatal wound(i have no idea how this is supposed to work, but it does)
How can Pan become stronger if she almost never fights (aside from that big fat dragon that spits poision), and suffers maybe...2 near fatal wounds her entire life.

And now to support 18 a bit more.
18 can hold her own against Broly...BROLY(well...swamp thing), a gigantic living tank that pretty much feels no pain. Can Pan stand up against broly? most likly not, seeing as how Broly faught and beat the crap out of Goku, Gohan(teen and adult), Piccolo, Vegeta, Trunks(future and Chibi), and Goten.The broly 18 faced with goten and trunks was only a clone, but it was STILL pretty unstoppable, the only thing that made it weaker than the original Broly is the fact that he was slower on account of all that swamp thing crap he was covered in.

Now back to Pan.

Even if she COULD go super sayian, it would STILL most likely be pointless. back to the Vegeta example, He was a super sayian-jin,and 18 handed his *** to him (and that should NEVER have happend) She also beat trunks with no problem.

In the alternate timelime, she defeated Gohan(super sayian) Vegeta (super sayian) and beat the crap out of trunks more than once. Trunks needed to return to the past so he could train for the future in order to beat them. And the 18 and 17 in the Non-trunks timeline were said to be STRONGER than than 18 and 17 in trunks timelime.

So here we have it, a powerful android who's proven successful against Several powerful Super Sayian-jins, and than we have pan...Who can barely pass as a distraction to buy the other fighters so time.