A question about Japanese pronunciation in the first Cardcaptor Sakura OP

[Need4Power]

Hello,

I've been visiting AnimeLyrics.com for way over a decade, but this is the first time I'm participating in this forum. Better late than never huh? Hi everyone

---

I have a question about a certain line in the Cardcaptor Sakura OP. I'm a beginner in learning Japanese and I want to understand (taking my N5 exam soon too!).

Am I mishearing it or does the singer actually pronounce the words differently than how the lyrics are written?

(At 0:59)

The lyrics are as follows: 飛んで飛んで飛んでいけ

But when we are supposed to hear 飛(と), I most certainly hear a clear ぐ instead!

And at the last part, 飛んでいけ, the い most certainly is heard to me as ゆ.

What is going on I wonder? Is it just me?

I'll appreciate your help

[ParaParaJMo]

Yes, sometimes 行け (いけ) can also be read as ゆけ

[Need4Power]

Thank you for your answer! I didn't know that. This explains a lot.


Do you also know the answer to my previous question about the [飛んで飛んで飛んで] part?

[ParaParaJMo]

It's pretty much read as 飛んで飛んで飛んで行け（ゆけ）

[Vagrere]

Thank you for your answer! I didn't know that. This explains a lot.


Do you also know the answer to my previous question about the [飛んで飛んで飛んで] part?

Welcome! I say, in spite of this being my first post in 15 years, which is terrifying.


I'm hearing a pretty standard とんで, myself, though I can kinda hear where you're coming from. Unfortunately, songs often don't have the clearest pronunciation, and when you're not a native speaker to begin with, that can exacerbate the problem. I was having similar problems with a song I was just transliterating earlier today (and that one didn't have the best sound quality to start with), where I was initially hearing 筋書き as "sukiwaki," lol.

[Need4Power]

Welcome! I say, in spite of this being my first post in 15 years, which is terrifying.

I'm hearing a pretty standard とんで, myself, though I can kinda hear where you're coming from. Unfortunately, songs often don't have the clearest pronunciation, and when you're not a native speaker to begin with, that can exacerbate the problem. I was having similar problems with a song I was just transliterating earlier today (and that one didn't have the best sound quality to start with), where I was initially hearing 筋書き as "sukiwaki," lol.

Wow! I'm very honored to be the first post that you reply to after a 15 years break from this forum
Thank you very much!

It truly sounds like a ぐ to me. I swear that my hearing is still good!

Do you hear it as と?... Hm, could it be that と is pronounced in a way that is not equivalent, for example - to an English "To"?

And yes, I'm aware of this issue. Songs that are not in your native language are more difficult to get because you need a very deep and natural understanding to catch those small nuances in the pronunciation.

Japanese especially so far seems to have all kind of nuances.

In this video for example (at 1:04)

I was almost pulling my hairs trying to understand why the singer pronounces ひるがえして as ひるなえして.



Seems to be an accent thing from the Eastern region of Japan? That is to my current understanding. I think I also somewhat confirmed this because there's actually a duet version to this song, where the singers pronounce this word with a clear が as I would have expected.

[Vagrere]

I'm not a linguist, so I'm not going to be able to express myself particularly well in the following explanation, but here goes, anyway.


There are a range of related sounds that are represented by the roman letter "T," from a pretty soft one like you get at the end of the word "aft" to hard, almost "D"-like sounds such as in "batty." This range is obviously going to differ depending on the language you're romanizing, I'm just using English here to illustrate my meaning. In any event, the sound I hear in the CCS opening is still a "t" sound to me--just a very abrupt, almost clipped one, which gives it an unusually sharp character, which is what I think you're hearing as a "g" sound. A lot of her consonants are also a little weak in general, such as the "d" sound in "datte" at about 0:33. I think it's this combination, with the music playing on top of it, that's causing the perception. As for the vowel, she is pronouncing it very slightly off from the short "o" sound that is standard Japanese pronunciation for と. It's almost blending a tiny bit into a short "u" sound, to my hearing, which again, could help lead to a perception of ぐ. All that said, I do still hear a pretty close to standard と, myself.



You're absolutely right that certain dialects do have unique pronunciations for certain sounds, but I'm not sure that's what's going on in the CCS opening.

[Need4Power]

I'm not a linguist, so I'm not going to be able to express myself particularly well in the following explanation, but here goes, anyway.


There are a range of related sounds that are represented by the roman letter "T," from a pretty soft one like you get at the end of the word "aft" to hard, almost "D"-like sounds such as in "batty." This range is obviously going to differ depending on the language you're romanizing, I'm just using English here to illustrate my meaning. In any event, the sound I hear in the CCS opening is still a "t" sound to me--just a very abrupt, almost clipped one, which gives it an unusually sharp character, which is what I think you're hearing as a "g" sound. A lot of her consonants are also a little weak in general, such as the "d" sound in "datte" at about 0:33. I think it's this combination, with the music playing on top of it, that's causing the perception. As for the vowel, she is pronouncing it very slightly off from the short "o" sound that is standard Japanese pronunciation for と. It's almost blending a tiny bit into a short "u" sound, to my hearing, which again, could help lead to a perception of ぐ. All that said, I do still hear a pretty close to standard と, myself.



You're absolutely right that certain dialects do have unique pronunciations for certain sounds, but I'm not sure that's what's going on in the CCS opening.

You're probably right. I think it does help me understand why I hear it as ぐ.
Also, nice catch with the だって, I remember thinking it also sounded a bit "off" to me, though I do understand it quite clearly from hearing.

Oh, and the attached Sailor Moon ending didn't have anything to do with it, it was just another example of me struggling with a Japanese song and not hearing what I expected to hear.

I guess it will get better with experience. I'm still very much a beginner.

[Raichu]

Sounds like "to" to me, but ...



Japanese "t" is less aspirated and more dental than the English "t". Japanese "o" is similar to the Italian "closed o" and is different to both British and American "o" sounds.


It sounds like an old recording so not the best quality. What we understand is not merely the raw sounds -- it's shaped by experience as our brain tries to make sense of the input.


These probably contribute to you hearing it differently.

[Need4Power]

Just to add on this topic, I watched a couple more performances of this same song just to see if other singers pronounce 飛んで more clearly to me:





They do! Now it does sound like a clear と to me!

Though... is it just me or is the first singer Liyuu pronounced 逃して as のばして at 0:35... ?



I feel like I'm taking crazy pills at this point haha.