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Thread: Hitorigoto

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    Default Hitorigoto

    https://www.animelyrics.com/anime/er...hitorigoto.htm

    As before I'll write it in order kanji -> original translation -> new translation -> [explanation if needed]. It's a translation correction, so please could you look at it @bluepenguin

    掛け違えてる ボタンみたいなもどかしさを
    ほどけないまま また難しくしようとしてる
    I'm so mixed up and I still can't wrap my head around this Irritation
    And so I make things difficult again
    By not fixing a frustration that's like a button that's been done up incorrectly,
    I'm just trying to make things difficult for myself again


    ふとしたときに 探しているよ
    While searching for something, I realized
    And the next thing I knew, I was searching-

    たった一言 ねえどうして Ah
    It's just one word Hey, why is it... Ah
    It's just a single sentence, but why, ah
    [This correction probably needs justifying that it's the "キミノコト" & whatever comes after it that's the 一言 being referred to]

    1000ピースある パズルみたいな選択肢と
    想像力が 判断力の邪魔をしちゃう
    The judgment of my imagination is hindered
    With choices like a puzzle with a thousand pieces
    When faced with choices, like a puzzle with a thousand pieces
    My imagination gets in the way of my ability to decide


    可愛くない顔みせて 自己嫌悪+後悔で
    ため込んだ「ごめんね」を吐きだすには ほど遠い・・・
    Show me your face that isn't cute Self-loathing and misunderstanding
    You stashed it away and spit out a far away "I'm sorry"
    Show an uncute face, with self-loathing plus regret added to the mix
    A far-cry from spitting out the "I'm sorry" jammed up at the back of my throat...


    君のこと ほんとはずっと
    Honestly, I want you to be forever...Ah
    You know, truth is, I've always... Ah
    [This one's probably a bit controversial. I think the original translation is just reading the line for what's there (or trying to finish a purposely unfinished line), but think it's going for what the rest of the "キミノコト" bit was before, and I can't imagine it being anything other than "好きです/でした". This comes with the massive downside of word order making it a pain to phrase it. I recommend putting a footnote in and saying what the line's intended finished bit is, this is what the Japanese is actually saying, while putting the English half-said confession in the translation.]
    Last edited by Fuukanou; 12-29-2019 at 01:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Hitorigoto

    These corrections look good to me. @Ghdf seems to have last logged in fairly recently, so I'll contact them before correcting this--if they haven't responded within a month then we can go ahead with the corrections regardless.

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    Default Re: Hitorigoto

    Sorry for the late reply.



    I will look through the suggested corrections and then add my two cents, but from a first glance they look alright to me, but anyway i will look through them.

    ---------- Post added at 08:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 PM ----------

    Alright, i went over your suggestions, my annotations are written in red.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fuukanou View Post
    https://www.animelyrics.com/anime/er...hitorigoto.htm

    As before I'll write it in order kanji -> original translation -> new translation -> [explanation if needed]. It's a translation correction, so please could you look at it @bluepenguin

    掛け違えてる ボタンみたいなもどかしさを
    ほどけないまま また難しくしようとしてる
    I'm so mixed up and I still can't wrap my head around this Irritation
    And so I make things difficult again
    By not fixing a frustration that's like a button that's been done up incorrectly,
    I'm just trying to make things difficult for myself again


    Yup, looks fine to me. Don't know why i forgot the "button" part there but Fuukanou's right there.


    ふとしたときに 探しているよ
    While searching for something, I realized
    And the next thing I knew, I was searching-

    Yes, but i dont like the choice of words here. maybe its just me, but I would rather translate it as
    "I was suddenly searching,
    Searching for your smile" or sth like that.




    たった一言 ねえどうして Ah
    It's just one word Hey, why is it... Ah
    It's just a single sentence, but why, ah
    [This correction probably needs justifying that it's the "キミノコト" & whatever comes after it that's the 一言 being referred to]

    Actually, I think the 一言 refers to the two lines that comes before it,
    (一人でいると会いたくなるよ
    誰と居たって会いたくなる), more specifically, to the "会いたい" part.
    Also, as far as i know, the meaning "one sentence" for 一言 is pretty rare, in 99% of cases it realy just mean "one word".
    So i would object your correction here.


    1000ピースある パズルみたいな選択肢と
    想像力が 判断力の邪魔をしちゃう
    The judgment of my imagination is hindered
    With choices like a puzzle with a thousand pieces
    When faced with choices, like a puzzle with a thousand pieces
    My imagination gets in the way of my ability to decide


    Both translations are pretty identical in their meaning so pick whichever you like.

    可愛くない顔みせて 自己嫌悪+後悔で
    ため込んだ「ごめんね」を吐きだすには ほど遠い・・・
    Show me your face that isn't cute Self-loathing and misunderstanding
    You stashed it away and spit out a far away "I'm sorry"
    Show an uncute face, with self-loathing plus regret added to the mix
    A far-cry from spitting out the "I'm sorry" jammed up at the back of my throat...



    Both translations are pretty identical in their meaning so pick whichever you like.

    君のこと ほんとはずっと
    Honestly, I want you to be forever...Ah
    You know, truth is, I've always... Ah
    [This one's probably a bit controversial. I think the original translation is just reading the line for what's there (or trying to finish a purposely unfinished line), but think it's going for what the rest of the "キミノコト" bit was before, and I can't imagine it being anything other than "好きです/でした". This comes with the massive downside of word order making it a pain to phrase it. I recommend putting a footnote in and saying what the line's intended finished bit is, this is what the Japanese is actually saying, while putting the English half-said confession in the translation.]

    Sounds right to me.

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    Default Re: Hitorigoto

    @Ghdf Thank you for taking a look at this! Let me just confirm the corrections you would like made:

    "I'm so mixed up and I still can't wrap my head around this Irritation / And so I make things difficult again" to "By not fixing a frustration that's like a button that's been done up incorrectly, / I'm just trying to make things difficult for myself again"

    "While searching for something, I realized / I'm searching for your smile" to "I was suddenly searching / Searching for your smile"

    "Honestly, I want you to be forever...Ah" to "You know, truth is, I've always... Ah"

    For 1000ピースある パズルみたいな選択肢と / 想像力が 判断力の邪魔をしちゃう, I agree that the meanings are basically the same so I would lean toward not changing it, but with 可愛くない顔みせて 自己嫌悪+後悔で / ため込んだ「ごめんね」を吐きだすには ほど遠い・・・, 後悔 does mean "regret" rather than "misunderstanding," and I prefer making its connection to 可愛くない顔 clear, so I would like to use Fuukanou's version and want to confirm that that's okay with you as well.

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    Default Re: Hitorigoto

    @bluepenguin


    Yes, that sounds good to me.


    For the 可愛くない顔みせて 自己嫌悪+後悔でpart, you are absolutely right, 後悔 does mean regret. However, I would still prefer to let out the "added to the mix" part that Fuukanou added, simply because I'm more a friend of a direct, literal translation.
    So I'd say:


    Show an uncute face, with self-loathing plus regret
    A far-cry from spitting out the "I'm sorry" jammed up at the back of my throat...

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    Default Re: Hitorigoto

    Cool, glad we've sorted this out, thanks from me as well for taking a look at it.

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    Default Re: Hitorigoto

    I don't know if third parties should give opinions, but I do think do prefer Fuukanou's version of 「1000ピース・・・」. The English is easier to understand and flows more naturally. "Hindered with choices" seems grammatically incorrect to me.

    I also prefer Fuunakou's version of 「可愛くない・・・ 」 for better grammar/flow.

    But I think "ugly face" would sound less awkward than "uncute face". I think that's what English speakers use for "real face we don't want to show people", which is what the Japanese is going for.

    For 「たったヒトコト」, I do think it's "one word" here, specifically 好き. "Why can't I say that one word (love)?" She can say 君のこと本当はずっと just fine, after all.

    For 「ふとしたときに」, I don't like "I was suddenly searching". 「ふとした」 doesn't mean "suddenly", it means something more like "subconsciously". I think Fuukanou's "And the next thing I knew" conveys that much better.

    I'd revise the next lines, too: "And the next thing I knew, I was searching / I was searching for your smile / But since it was subconscious, I couldn't tell you why" ("tell you yet the reason" isn't grammatically correct)

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    Default Re: Hitorigoto

    Quote Originally Posted by Serei View Post
    I don't know if third parties should give opinions

    For what it's worth, a big reason we use threads is so that there can be third party discussion so we're grateful for any and all input. Otherwise this would be solved with a PM to an admin who could PM the original translator.

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    Default Re: Hitorigoto

    My two cents:





    Quote Originally Posted by Serine View Post
    I don't know if third parties should give opinions, but I do think do prefer Fuukanou's version of 「1000ピース・・・」. The English is easier to understand and flows more naturally. "Hindered with choices" seems grammatically incorrect to me.

    I also prefer Fuunakou's version of 「可愛くない・・・ 」 for better grammar/flow.

    But I think "ugly face" would sound less awkward than "uncute face". I think that's what English speakers use for "real face we don't want to show people", which is what the Japanese is going for.


    It comes down to the question wheter or not you want a literal or a "free" translation.
    You could stick all kind of english words for 可愛くない, e.g. ugly, awful, gross etc. but, I do prefer a literal translation, and uncute is the correct english translation for 可愛くない; although i do admit that i had to look it up in a dictonary.




    For 「たったヒトコト」, I do think it's "one word" here, specifically 好き. "Why can't I say that one word (love)?" She can say 君のこと本当はずっと just fine, after all.

    For 「ふとしたときに」, I don't like "I was suddenly searching". 「ふとした」 doesn't mean "suddenly", it means something more like "subconsciously". I think Fuukanou's "And the next thing I knew" conveys that much better.


    I disagree with you, ふとした doesnt really mean subsonsciously, it means something like unexpected, abruptly, or, well, suddenly. ( https://ejje.weblio.jp/content/%E3%8...81%97%E3%81%9F )

    I'd revise the next lines, too: "And the next thing I knew, I was searching / I was searching for your smile / But since it was subconscious, I couldn't tell you why" ("tell you yet the reason" isn't grammatically correct)

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    Default Re: Hitorigoto

    Yes, "unexpected" is probably the best one-word translation of ふとした.

    But I think "subconscious" is a much better way to think about "unexpected to yourself" than "suddenly". Or, the one I Fuukanou chose, "the next thing I knew", is a very good way to think of "unexpected". "Suddenly" isn't, because it's not sudden or abrupt. Your link also doesn't say "abrupt" in the definition.

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    Default Re: Hitorigoto

    Quote Originally Posted by Serine View Post
    Yes, "unexpected" is probably the best one-word translation of ふとした.

    But I think "subconscious" is a much better way to think about "unexpected to yourself" than "suddenly". Or, the one I Fuukanou chose, "the next thing I knew", is a very good way to think of "unexpected". "Suddenly" isn't, because it's not sudden or abrupt. Your link also doesn't say "abrupt" in the definition.

    If we look at the whole paragraph,


    ふとした時に探しているよ
    君の笑顔を探しているよ
    無意識の中その理由は
    まだ言えないけど


    or rather, at the two connected lines


    ふとした時に探しているよ
    君の笑顔を探しているよ


    the second is line is pretty straightforward,



    "I'm searching for your smile"



    The first line is actually a bit more complicated.


    ふとした時に | 探しているよ


    ふとした時に, I'd say, means "at an unexpected time" , 探しているよ " [I] am searching


    So, "I am searching at an unexpected time" , which sounds stupid


    Now, if we mold that to something that a. makes sense and b. doesn't sound stupid,


    my best attempt would be "Suddenly, I am searching; searching for your smile"



    I just can't agree to ふとした時に as " at a subconscious time".


    Maybe someone else has a a better judgment?

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    Default Re: Hitorigoto

    Re: 1000ピースある, I think these lines should be changed; "judgment of my imagination" doesn't seem to convey very clearly (if at all) that imagination is the thing getting in the way. Fuukanou's wording seems good to me.

    Re: ふとしたときに, I actually feel like the real problems with the lines in the initial TL are (1) the use of past tense and (2) taking 時 as a singular time. I'm having trouble cleanly explaining my reasoning (and I feel like the discussion is kind of starting to spiral out of control at this point), so for now, I'm just going to say that I would favor something closer to
    I find myself searching at unexpected times,
    Searching for your smile
    But it's subconscious and I still can't tell you why
    Last edited by bambooXZX; 02-16-2020 at 10:47 PM.

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    Default Re: Hitorigoto

    I've made the agreed-upon changes; @Ghdf , let me know what you want to do with the lines still being discussed, when you've come to a decision about it.

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    Default Re: Hitorigoto

    Quote Originally Posted by bluepenguin View Post
    I've made the agreed-upon changes; @Ghdf , let me know what you want to do with the lines still being discussed, when you've come to a decision about it.

    For the 1000 pieces part, im fine with it, but it simply sounds wrong for me to translate "ふとした" as "subconscious", so i cant realy agree on that.

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    Default Re: Hitorigoto

    Not sure if you considered my suggestion at all, but the 'subconscious' in my post is from 無意識, for what it's worth

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    Default Re: Hitorigoto

    Quote Originally Posted by bambooXZX View Post
    Not sure if you considered my suggestion at all, but the 'subconscious' in my post is from 無意識, for what it's worth
    Pretty sure it's in reference to this post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Serine View Post
    But I think "subconscious" is a much better way to think about "unexpected to yourself" than "suddenly".
    I agree with you though that the bigger problem is that I had initially put ふとした時 as singular rather than plural.

    As for the subconcious thing, I think both Serine and Ghdf have valid points. I do think that you would have to be subconciously thinking about it for it to suddenly 'click' at some point that you're searching for it, but I also agree that you have to unpack what's going on to get there, and this makes it a more liberal translation. This site gives a lot of flexibility to translators in whether they translate liberally or literally (within reason of course) and so I'm gonna say we should respect Ghdf's literal translation choice. So it's "I was suddenly searching, / Searching for your smile" at this point.

    Next including the pluralisation, I would agree and say BambooXZX's "I find myself searching at unexpected times, / Searching for your smile / But it's subconscious and I still can't tell you why" is appropriate. I agree that there's still something unnatural-sounding about that first line (I can't think of a better literal way to phrase it either tbh, I would revise my old translation to 'There are times that I find myself[...]') but that's a good compromise if we're going to stick to a literal translation.

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    Default Re: Hitorigoto

    Quote Originally Posted by bambooXZX View Post
    Not sure if you considered my suggestion at all, but the 'subconscious' in my post is from 無意識, for what it's worth



    Oh, I see, for the 無意識 part, subconscious is fine with me.

    ---------- Post added at 05:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:29 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuukanou View Post
    [...]
    As for the subconcious thing, I think both Serine and Ghdf have valid points. I do think that you would have to be subconciously thinking about it for it to suddenly 'click' at some point that you're searching for it, but I also agree that you have to unpack what's going on to get there, and this makes it a more liberal translation. This site gives a lot of flexibility to translators in whether they translate liberally or literally (within reason of course) and so I'm gonna say we should respect Ghdf's literal translation choice. So it's "I was suddenly searching, / Searching for your smile" at this point.

    [...]

    I am not someone who tries to overanalyze lyrics; I obviously view them in the given context, and I did watch the anime and know what these lyrics are all about, about Sagiri being a hikikomori and opening up to the world bla bla bla; my point is that I can see why people would prefer the subconscious-translation.

    But, and thanks for pointing that out, I do like my translations as literal as possible.

    I don't know if we should vote for it but if youre asking me, I would still prefer the suddenly-translation.

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    Default Re: Hitorigoto

    I don't think the problem is literal vs figurative here. I'm fine with it being literal. The problem is that 「ふとした」 has many definitions, and we disagree which one is the right one here.

    Hitorigoto is one of my favorite songs, so I do want to at least try to explain one more time why I think "suddenly" is wrong.

    ふとした時に探しているよ
    君の笑顔を探しているよ
    無意識の中その理由は
    まだ言えないけど

    Preserving as much meaning as possible, this, to me, would be:

    Unintentionally, I'm searching
    Searching for your smile
    The reason, which is in my subconscious,
    Isn't something that can be spoken out loud yet

    If you want to be as literal as possible, ふとした means "unintentionally": the point of ふとした時に探しているよ is "you weren't trying to search for something, but you found yourself searching anyway".

    "Sudden" is a figurative interpretation: you got it from "unexpected", which is also a figurative interpretation of "you did this unintentionally, so it's unexpected".

    Forget all the talk about "subconsciously". That was never my suggested translation. My suggested translation was: "And the next thing I know, I'm searching". I think this better captures all the dictionary definitions of 「ふとした」 - "impulsive; unexpected; accidental; casual; inadvertent; on a whim". You don't need to stretch it, the way you do for "suddenly".
    Last edited by Serine; 03-31-2020 at 06:09 AM.

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    Default Re: Hitorigoto

    Quote Originally Posted by Serine View Post
    I don't think the problem is literal vs figurative here. I'm fine with it being literal. The problem is that 「ふとした」 has many definitions, and we disagree which one is the right one here.

    Hitorigoto is one of my favorite songs, so I do want to at least try to explain one more time why I think "suddenly" is wrong.

    ふとした時に探しているよ
    君の笑顔を探しているよ
    無意識の中その理由は
    まだ言えないけど

    Preserving as much meaning as possible, this, to me, would be:

    Unintentionally, I'm searching
    Searching for your smile
    The reason, which is in my subconscious,
    Isn't something that can be spoken out loud yet

    If you want to be as literal as possible, ふとした means "unintentionally": the point of ふとした時に探しているよ is "you weren't trying to search for something, but you found yourself searching anyway".

    "Sudden" is a figurative interpretation: you got it from "unexpected", which is also a figurative interpretation of "you did this unintentionally, so it's unexpected".

    Forget all the talk about "subconsciously". That was never my suggested translation. My suggested translation was: "And the next thing I know, I'm searching". I think this better captures all the dictionary definitions of 「ふとした」 - "impulsive; unexpected; accidental; casual; inadvertent; on a whim". You don't need to stretch it, the way you do for "suddenly".

    I do admire your persistency when it comes to one small word that isn't probably all that important for the understanding of the paragraph.




    The main difference between "suddenly" and "And the next thing I know" is the focus point of one's attention.
    If something is suddenly, you interrupt one's attention to shift it to that "sudden thing".



    If you instead say "the next thing i know" this doesn't necessarily means that you interrupt one's attention, it rather means that your attention was on point a, and then it shifted to point b, without interrupting your attention on point a beforehand.



    This is all an extrem technical and probably unnecessary discussion tbh, I couldn't realy find any japanese source that clearly states the difference in meaning, and I don't use ふとした when i speak japanese, i much prefer 急に, so I don't have any practical experience either.

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