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Thread: Ali Project - Yomi no Tasogare no, Utsuru Naru Aoki Hitomi no

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    Default Ali Project - Yomi no Tasogare no, Utsuru Naru Aoki Hitomi no

    I'll have to admit that I am not really good at translating. This is something I have started just recently as a hobby. And English is my third language. I am not sure where I have made mistakes in this translation and I'll be glad if someone could point them out. I want to improve my translations but, other than requesting you, I can think of no other way.

    指を組み踊りましょう
    Interlocking our fingers, let's dance.
    揃いの真白い服は
    Our like pure white clothes are dyed
    窓と同じ
    Like the window
    たそがれ色に染まっています
    In colours of twilight.

    [1]あれはダフネ薫る春
    That was Daphne's fragrant spring.
    この今は永遠ではなく
    This "now" won't last for eternity.
    ふたり分かつ刻は来ると
    Realizing that the time will come when we are divided into two
    悟り泣いたのは
    I cried.

    ここが黄泉の国ならいい
    It is okay if this place is the country of hell.
    うつろなる蒼き互いの瞳に
    In our like eyes that become hollow
    まだ知らぬ哀しみの代わり
    As the substitute of the sadness we do not yet know
    滲ませたい 美しい闇
    I want to blur that beautiful darkness.

    胸合わせ回りましょう
    Pressing our chests together, let's go round in circles
    甘く馨し乙女の姿で
    As sweetly fragrant maidens.

    [2]靴音は重なって
    The sounds of footsteps concur with each other,
    [3]響くどこかにある
    Resounding somewhere,
    空の彼方
    Beyond the sky.

    あなたはわたしの死
    You are my death.
    わたしはあなたの生
    I am your life.
    それはひとつの生を
    That is so that one life
    死に続けるための
    Continues to death.

    受け継いだものは何
    What is it that we have inherited?
    出会えぬ父さまは誰
    Who is the father I am not able to happen to meet?
    格子の外
    At the other side of this latticework
    華やぐ声が通り過ぎます
    A vivid voice passes by.

    ここは黄泉の地下なのです
    This is the place under hell.
    うつろなる蒼き四っつの瞳は
    The four blue eyes that become hollow
    夜ばかり見つめていたから
    Because they would gaze at night
    一目(ひとつ)に溶けてしまいそう
    Seem to melt into one.

    離れずに巡りましょう
    Let us detour without being separated.
    次の世でまた
    In the world that is next,
    目覚める一緒に
    We'll wake up together again.

    始めからやり直す
    We will start over from the beginning.
    光る朝露
    In the shining morning mist,
    開かぬ瞼へ
    We will go the eyelids that do not open.

    わたしはまだ少女
    I am still a girl.
    あなたはまだ人形
    You are still a doll.
    生も死も同じ舞台の上
    Life and death stand on the same stage
    グラン・ギニョール
    At Grand Guignol.

    [1] As 薫る is an intransitive verb, I had to translate it as this. But can I say it was the spring that made Daphne fragrant? That will be wrong, right? Can I translate this line in any other way?

    [2] 重ねる is another verb I have a lot of trouble with. Is there any better way to translate this line? I thought using concur would convey the same meaning but, in other cases, perhaps where it is used to mean something is literally overlaping something else (eg. 肌は重ねられない), how should I translate it?

    [3] I have assumed that this place is somewhere beyond the sky. Is my assumption wrong?

    Other than these, are there any problems in my translation? Are there any grammatical errors?

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    Default Re: Ali Project - Yomi no Tasogare no, Utsuru Naru Aoki Hitomi no

    Hi sayakacarys! It's all right, we all put our translations up for critique from time to time after reading through your translation, here's a couple of points that caught my eye:

    >揃いの真白い服は
    Our like pure white clothes are dyed

    A more commonly-used term for お揃い is 'matching'; it might be more easily comprehended.

    >[1]- I'm not too sure about the spring making Daphne fragrant, but I feel like the lyricist is speaking like they've experienced the season; it seems more like 'It was Daphne's fragrant spring'.

    >うつろなる蒼き互いの瞳に
    In our like eyes that become hollow

    Isn't this 'In our matching blue eyes...'?

    >まだ知らぬ哀しみの代わり
    As the substitute of the sadness we do not yet know

    This is just an opinion, but I think it would flow better if you interpreted 代わり as 'in place of / instead of', and まだ知らぬ as 'that is still / yet unknown'.

    >[2]- In this case, overlapping would probably work perfectly well.

    >出会えぬ父さまは誰
    Who is the father I am not able to happen to meet?

    出会う usually indicates a first meeting. In this sentence, the author has never even met their father. So more like- Who is this father who I have never met?'

    >格子の外
    At the other side of this latticework

    Might be nitpicky- nothing indicates that it is 'this' latticework instead of simply 'the'. And usually you'd use 'on the other side' instead of 'at'.

    >夜ばかり見つめていたから
    Because they would gaze at night

    ばかりmeans 'only', so it's 'because they only gazed at night' or something.

    >次の世でまた
    In the world that is next,
    目覚める一緒に
    We'll wake up together again.

    It would be easier and more concise to put 'in the next world'. With regards to 目覚める, it could refer to waking up, but so does 覚める; to be more precise I would go with 'awaken'.

    >[3]- no, that seems about right.

    Your translation seems mostly okay; I think you just need to work on more concise expressions. Hoped this helped at least a little- (:
    Last edited by Rei; 08-19-2017 at 03:27 PM.

    できねぇ時?
    そん時ゃ諸共心中だよ





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    Default Re: Ali Project - Yomi no Tasogare no, Utsuru Naru Aoki Hitomi no

    I agree 揃いの is best worded "matching" rather than "like".

    [2] I take it as "a spring that has the scent of Daphne". You might consider "springtime" since "spring" also means 泉.

    黄泉の国: You might consider "hades", the world of the dead, as a closer translation than "hell", the realm of eternal punishment.

    うつろなる蒼き互いの瞳に: in each other's vacant blue eyes. うつろ suggests lack of expression or life. I think なる suggests present rather than future condition (compare 聖なる "holy", "sacred").

    まだ知らぬ哀しみ: hmm ... i think this could easily be either as yet generally unknown or still unknown to us. 代わり Agree "In place/instead of" is the more usual way to say it.

    胸合わせ回りましょう: Presuming this refers to their 踊り from line 1, I can see how you got. "Pressing our chests together, let's go round in circles", but something doesn't seem quite right. I might have said "With our chests together ..." since "pressing" seems a little strong, but both are OK really. I think my trouble is with "go round in circles" which in English means you're not making progress. How about "let's dance around"?

    甘く馨し乙女の姿で You can say "sweetly scented" or "sweetly smelling" or just "fragrant". "Sweetly fragrant" is incorrect usage because "fragrant" already implies "sweet".

    [2] 重なる has a range of meanings, but I in my experience it's difficult to translate. 靴音は重なって might mean one of two things, but it's not clear which. (1) Footsteps are continuing one after the other: "Footsteps keep sounding". (2) If referring to the dancing couple's feet, their footseps are concurrent. I've never used "concur" in that way, so I checked the dictionary and it seems correct, but I would have said "our footsteps coincide" if that's any use.

    [3] No idea, the wording seems odd to me. Go with what makes most sense.

    出会う Rei's comments make sense.

    格子の外 Agree with Rei, "On the other side of the latticework"

    うつろなる蒼き四っつの瞳は "The four vacant blue eyes" (see above)

    夜ばかり見つめていたから "only stare into the night". I think 夜 refers to what their looking at, not when. ばかり suggests exclusion of other things, i.e., they stare only at the darkness of the night, not at anything else. Otherwise it would mean that they only look during the night and don't do any seeing at other times. Also I definitely go with "stare", not "gaze". 見つめる can mean either, but their vacant eyes suggests that they're just staring lifelessly, while gazing suggests purposeful activity.

    一目に溶けてしまいそう "and so seem to melt into one." I think your use of "because" was a bit clumsy. I think translating it with "and so" helps the translation flow more naturally.

    離れずに巡りましょう: Again I think this is referring to their dance. I would say "Let's keep dancing together" because a literal translation (like yours) is likely to be misinterpreted.

    次の世で: As Rei points out, "in the next world" is the way we normally say it in English.

    次の世でまた / 目覚める一緒に: "We shall awaken (or wake up) again together in the next world."


    Hope this helps! If English is a third language to you, you've done well. You've also done well in asking for help. Keep practising and keep soliciting advice and feedback as much as you can to help you improve. (I was very lucky--when I was starting to get into translating, there were some native Japanese speakers I could bug for help!)
    Last edited by Raichu; 08-21-2017 at 06:56 AM. Reason: typos

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    Default Re: Ali Project - Yomi no Tasogare no, Utsuru Naru Aoki Hitomi no

    Thank you for your reply, @Rei . At first, I was unsure about how to apply the changes you suggested because I could barely understand the difference between "not be able to happen to meet" and "never met". However, now, I have realized that the first one doesn't communicate it as strongly as the latter does. In fact, it seems to be a very bad word choice. But I am still not sure how to my writing more concise. I believe reading more to understand the subtle meanings certain phrases carry can be helpful. And thank you for the corrections too. I had not noticed them somehow. I still cannot understand the meaning of the song, however. It seems so strange. I feel the "eyes" part ("blur darkness into eyes"?) has more of the meaning of "view" (for the eyes are then staring into the night). I have seen this happen in Sanskrit. Does it happen in Japanese too?

    ---------- Post added at 02:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:04 AM ----------

    @Raichu Thank you for your help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raichu View Post

    甘く馨し乙女の姿で You can say "sweetly scented" or "sweetly smelling" or just "fragrant". "Sweetly fragrant" is incorrect usage because "fragrant" already implies "sweet".
    I have seen this being used, however, in H. Peter Loewer's book. I feel many things that do not smell "sweet" can be described as fragrant. It certainly has that meaning but not to the extent that it will prevent me from using sweet as an adjective with it. However, as it is used as an attribute of "maidens" and not any food item or flowers, sweetly scented goes better I believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raichu View Post

    離れずに巡りましょう: Again I think this is referring to their dance. I would say "Let's keep dancing together" because a literal translation (like yours) is likely to be misinterpreted.
    Can it not refer to living and dying and then living again? (Sansaara? Because it is also a cycle) I feel it means that they want to live and die and be reborn again without being separated. This is more harmonious with the next lines. Am I wrong? Or are both meanings suitable?
    Last edited by sayakacarys; 04-25-2018 at 03:06 AM.

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    Default Re: Ali Project - Yomi no Tasogare no, Utsuru Naru Aoki Hitomi no

    Now that you mention it, I have heard "sweet fragrance", but "sweetly fragrant" still sounds strange. If you're happy with "sweetly scented" than that should fix it anyway.

    About 離れずに巡りましょう, it was some time ago and I don't remember what I was thinking. I agree, considering the verse as a whole, it must refer to being reborn together. IIRC 巡る essentially means to make a cycle, so literally, "let's make the life-death-rebirth cycle without getting separated". But IMO "detour" doesn't capture this well. "Let's make the cycle"? Anyone else got any ideas?

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    Default Re: Ali Project - Yomi no Tasogare no, Utsuru Naru Aoki Hitomi no

    I'm not entirely sure if this is what you meant at the time, but your capitalization of Daphne suggests that you interpret the word as the name of a person. My first thought, though, was that it could be the name of a plant, since this is a common device lyricists use to paint images of seasons. I did a quick search, and sure enough, there does exist a plant called daphne. Granted, 'daphne' might not be the most common name for it in Japanese, but it seems like something Ali Project would do based on my image of them. What do you think?

    (If it does refer to the plant, that probably rules out 'Daphne's fragrant spring', though I'd agree with Raichu on that line in both cases. :V)
    Last edited by bambooXZX; 05-04-2018 at 01:22 AM.

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    Default Re: Ali Project - Yomi no Tasogare no, Utsuru Naru Aoki Hitomi no

    Quote Originally Posted by bambooXZX View Post
    I'm not entirely sure if this is what you meant at the time, but your capitalization of Daphne suggests that you interpret the word as the name of a person. My first thought, though, was that it could be the name of a plant, since this is a common device lyricists use to paint images of seasons. I did a quick search, and sure enough, there does exist a plant called daphne. Granted, 'daphne' might not be the most common name for it in Japanese, but it seems like something Ali Project would do based on my image of them. What do you think?

    (If it does refer to the plant, that probably rules out 'Daphne's fragrant spring', though I'd agree with Raichu on that line in both cases. :V)

    Yes, it perhaps really does not refer to the nymph. She is associated with springs (and waterbodies) and not the spring season. This solves one puzzle. Thank you.

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