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Thread: Mahou no Shiro, Shinjitsu no Shomotsu (by someone who has never been taught Japanese)

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    Default Mahou no Shiro, Shinjitsu no Shomotsu (by someone who has never been taught Japanese)

    Hi all,
    I have never been formally taught Japanese, but through something that can hardly be called self study (more like learning from reverse translation) I have attemped to translate a song. Please could someone check this to see how far I was from correctness? I have the CD and inlay, so the Japanese and Romaji (transcribed while listening to the song and then checked against insert) should be ok (may still have screwed up though), but the furigana (written in brackets after the word it refers to) is done by ear.

    Haruna Luna - Mahou no Shiro, Shinjitsu no Shomotsu
    春奈瑠奈 - 魔法の城、真実の書物
    Haruna Luna - The magic castle and tome of truth

    saisho no peeji wo meguru yubi wa furueteita
    最初の頁をめぐる指は震えていた
    The fingers turning the first page were shaking

    "subete wo shiru kakugo ga aru no ka na?" to hon wa tou
    「総てを知る覚悟があるのかな?」 と本は問う
    "Do you have the resolve to know everything?", the book asks.

    hokori ni mamireta shomotsu no naka ni wa anata no shirushita "shinjitsu" ga nemuru
    埃に塗れた書物の中には貴方の記した「真実」が眠る
    Inside the book mired in dust, the "truth" you wrote sleeps

    fukai mori no oku ni aru oshiro ni wa mahou ga kakatteimashita
    深い森の奥に在るお城には魔法が掛かっていました
    In the castle in the core of the deep wood, a magic was hung [this isn't meant to be passive in the Japanese but writing it actively in English sounds awkward]

    mayoikonda watashi wa, sono hon wo te ni shiteshimaimashita
    迷い込んだ私は、その本を手にしてしまいました
    I, who had strayed in, had obtained that book

    hokori ni mamireta shomotsu no naka ni wa anata no shirushita "shinjitsu" ga nemuru
    埃に塗れた書物の中には貴方の記した「真実」が眠る
    Inside the book mired in dust, the "truth" you wrote sleeps

    furueru yubisaki, yukkuri to ugoku
    震える指先、ゆっくりと動く
    The trembling fingers, slowly moving,

    zawameku ankoku - peeji wo megutta
    ざわめく暗黒 - 頁をめぐった
    turned the awestrikingly darkened pages

    soko ni shirusareteita no wa anata ga kieta wake
    そこに記していたのは貴方が消えた理由(わけ)
    There was written the reason you had disappeared;

    watashi ga shindeshimatta to iu "daishinjitsu" ga
    私が死んでしまったという「真実(だいしんじつ)」が
    that the "truth" that I had died

    "anata wa watashi wo tasukeru tame ni tamashii wo gisei ni shitanda"
    「貴方は私の助けるために魂を犠牲にしたんだ」
    "You sacrificed your soul in order to save me"

    "aishiteimasu" to shomotsu no saigo ni kizamareteita
    「愛してます」と書物の最後刻まれていた
    "I love you" was carved into the final page of the tome

    subete wo omoidashita ato ni namida ga hitosuji, potari, ochite-
    すべてを思い出した後に涙が一筋、ぽたり、落ちて-
    After I remembered everything, a line of tears drip down
    Last edited by Fuukanou; 12-10-2016 at 06:25 PM.

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    Default Re: Mahou no Shiro, Shinjitsu no Shomotsu (by someone who has never been taught Japan

    Here is some feedback. Most of it is pretty good.

    lines 1, 9. Check that peeji o meguru/megutta is not actually mekuru/mekutta. Maybe they say peeji o meguru (anyone else know?) but mekuru would make more sense to me.

    line 5. kakatte imashita is two words. With mahou it means that a spell had been cast: A magic spell had been cast on a castle that lay in the middle of a deep wood.

    line 6. shite shimaimashita is two words. I would say "got hold of the book" rather than "obtained". I think the context suggests that the book is literally in his/her hands.

    line 9. Not sure how you got that translation. I understand it as: rustling in the darkness, I turned the page[s].

    line 10. 記していた is shirushite ita, not shirusarete ita. both make sense but you need to confirm which is correct. If it's shirushite, I would translate it "What you wrote in there was ..."

    line 11. It's not entirely clear without listening to it, but daishinjitsu ga might be the subject and the following line is the complement of a sentence: The "real truth" that I had died is that "you sacrificed ...".

    line 13. 愛してます is aishitemasu, not aishite imasu. Both make sense but you need to confirm which is correct. Kizamarete ita is two words. Maybe i'd say "engraved" rather than "carved".

    line 14. ochite - I would say "drips" rather than "drip". I think it's indicative (saying what happens/happened), not imperative (commanding to happen). The "te" form in this case indicates that the thought is incomplete and that something follows.

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    Default Re: Mahou no Shiro, Shinjitsu no Shomotsu (by someone who has never been taught Japan

    I found a booklet scan. An overall thing: I notice you've presented the translation as individual lines and stripped punctuation, but the structure of the original lyrics can be helpful to understanding the meaning, so I'd recommend preserving that where possible, given that you already have a reliable source in the booklet. While this is not something that should always be considered heavily, I'd say that it's particularly important in this song, given the book motif - I can't think that so much punctuation is there for no reason.

    This seems to be a recurring theme in this lyricist's work: see Machigerita's page on Kasi-Time. Interestingly, in another song by Haruna Luna, we see that not all lines end with periods, strengthening the case that these periods are not placed indiscriminately and actually mark divisions between ideas.

    Notice line 9: as we see from the booklet, this is actually two lines across two stanzas. Once again, while line divisions don't always indicate separate ideas, I think the period and long dash make it pretty clear.

    As such, for ざわめく暗黒, I'd read ざわめく as something that 暗黒 itself is doing - stirring/rustling darkness, just a standalone noun phrase to describe the imagery. You could just leave it as a noun fragment in the English if you want, or translate it as "The darkness stirs," or something - different translators have different opinions on what's acceptable, but that's just my input. Meanwhile, the page-turning would just be continued description of the speaker's actions.

    Additionally, for line 11, the structure of the song, both as written and as heard, suggests that the 真実 is indeed the reason mentioned in the previous line.

    ---

    Other than that, I more-or-less agree with Raichu's feedback.

    Lines 1, 9: The scan confirms めくる. As far as I know, ページをめぐる is not an established expression with that meaning, and the line would mean something different if that was used. (Interesting coincidence with "turn", though...)

    Line 14: While I agree that "drips" would be the word to use here (or even "dripped" would work, maybe?), I think you might have the wrong idea of why "drip" happened in the first place, Raichu - it seems more likely to me that "drip" was matched to the plural "tears" instead of the singular "line" as it should have been.
    Last edited by bambooXZX; 12-11-2016 at 02:21 AM.

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    Default Re: Mahou no Shiro, Shinjitsu no Shomotsu (by someone who has never been taught Japan

    drip/drips: oh I see what you mean. Sorry I musn't have been thinking straight. Fuukanou, in english we treat "line of tears" grammatically as if it was "line", a singular noun. The added phrase "of tears" explains what kind of line. So "tears drip" but "[a] line drips", hence "a line of tears drips".

    In ざわめく暗黒, zawameku is an adjectival clause, so you would most naturally parse it as "the darkness which stirs", but also as "the darkness in which rustling happens". I think in both cases you run into semantic difficulties. WIth the former, darkness doesn't make sound. With the latter, if the rustling is the turning of the pages, it would be impossible to read anything in darkness. I think you need some more context to determine what the intended sense is.

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    Default Re: Mahou no Shiro, Shinjitsu no Shomotsu (by someone who has never been taught Japan

    OK thank you for your input Raichu and BambooXZX. I have made adjustments as you have recommended.
    Overall: Full stops and line breaks restored across all lines as BambooXZX suggested.
    Line 1: meguru -> mekuru (sorry that was a transcription typo ahaha).
    Line 4: romaji "kakatteimashita" was split after the te and translation of said term changed to the form Raichu recommended, "ni aru" was expanded upon in the translation also as Raichu wrote to make it explicit.
    Line 5: romaji "shiteshimaimashita" was split after the te and translation of said term was changed as Raichu suggested to make more literal in meaning.
    Line 7: as a result of the full stops, I retranslated the line without the comma as this would not make sense without it.
    Line 8 (used to be with line 9): as BambooXZX suggested I went with "the darkness stirs" as to be honest I have as much context as you both have. Being the only two words in the sentence, I couldn't really see it being "the darkness which stirs" or "the darkness in which the rustling happens" as this makes little sense in English, so I think to preserve meaning in English I'll keep it "the darkness stirs"
    Line 9 (used to be with line 8): as BambooXZX suggested reintroducing the original punctuation, this was changed into a nice simple sentence "──I turned the page." which sets up the impact for the next few lines.
    Line 10: as Raichu suggested "shirusareteita" was split after the te. Sorry again for the mistake in writing this in Japanese, but it was indeed the passive one as in the romaji, so I kept the original translation for this line.
    Line 11: as BambooXZX suggested splitting the lines and that there were no run-on lines, I translated the line as "the "real truth" was that I had died." with Raichu's suggestion for including the dai from the daishinjitsu furigana
    Line 13: sorry again, it is aishiteimasu, I messed up the Japanese. Also split "kizamareteita" after the te
    Line 14: wow this was a poor performance from me messing up the English grammar, let alone the Japanese ahahaha. drip -> drips

    Here's the revised version:

    Haruna Luna - Mahou no Shiro, Shinjitsu no Shomotsu
    春奈瑠奈 - 魔法の城、真実の書物
    Haruna Luna - The magic castle and tome of truth


    saisho no peeji wo mekuru yubi wa furueteita
    最初の頁をめくる指は震えていた。
    The fingers turning the first page were shaking.

    "subete wo shiru kakugo ga aru no ka na?" to hon wa tou.
    「総てを知る覚悟があるのかな?」 と本は問う。
    "Do you have the resolve to know everything?", the book asks.

    hokori ni mamireta shomotsu no naka ni wa anata no shirushita "shinjitsu" ga nemuru.
    埃に塗れた書物の中には貴方の記した「真実」が眠る。
    Inside the book mired in dust, the "truth" you wrote sleeps.

    fukai mori no oku ni aru oshiro ni wa mahou ga kakatte imashita.
    深い森の奥に在るお城には魔法が掛かっていました。
    A magic spell had been cast on the castle that lay in the middle of the deep wood.

    mayoikonda watashi wa, sono hon wo te ni shite shimaimashita.
    迷い込んだ私は、その本を手にしてしまいました。
    I, who had strayed in, had gotten hold of that book.

    hokori ni mamireta shomotsu no naka ni wa anata no shirushita "shinjitsu" ga nemuru.
    埃に塗れた書物の中には貴方の記した「真実」が眠る。
    Inside the book mired in dust, the "truth" you wrote sleeps.

    furueru yubisaki, yukkuri to ugoku.
    震える指先、ゆっくりと動く。
    The trembling fingers move slowly.

    zawameku ankoku
    ざわめく暗黒。
    The darkness stirs.

    *stanza break*

    ──peeji wo mekutta.
    ──頁をめくった。
    ──I turned the page.

    soko ni shirusarete ita no wa anata ga kieta wake.
    そこに記されていたのは貴方が消えた理由(わけ)。
    There was written the reason you had disappeared;

    watashi ga shindeshimatta to iu "daishinjitsu" ga.
    私が死んでしまったという「真実(だいしんじつ)」が。
    the "real truth" was that I had died.

    "anata wa watashi wo tasukeru tame ni tamashii wo gisei ni shitanda."
    「貴方は私の助けるために魂を犠牲にしたんだ。」
    "You sacrificed your soul in order to save me."

    "aishiteimasu" to shomotsu no saigo ni kizamarete ita.
    「愛しています」と書物の最後刻まれていた。
    "I love you" was engraved into the final page of the tome.

    subete wo omoidashita ato ni namida ga hitosuji, potari, ochite──.
    すべてを思い出した後に涙が一筋、ぽたり、落ちて── 。
    After I remembered everything, a line of tears drips down──.
    Last edited by Fuukanou; 12-11-2016 at 01:26 PM.

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    Default Re: Mahou no Shiro, Shinjitsu no Shomotsu (by someone who has never been taught Japan

    Line 13: kanji reads 最後刻まれていた while romaji reads "saigo ni kizamarete ita," adding a nonexistent "ni"

    As for the last line - although 筋 does in fact refer to a line, "a line of tears" may give the impression that there are multiple tears, while 一筋の涙 is only one tear that leaves a trail behind as it drips down one's face, ergo the line - I believe it may be better conveyed as "a single tear," to make the number more clear.

    I don't mean to nitpick at little wording choices, though - I focus here because that's really all I can find to pick at! This is a wonderful translation, I think - good job! ^^

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    Default Re: Mahou no Shiro, Shinjitsu no Shomotsu (by someone who has never been taught Japan

    Quote Originally Posted by Achamo View Post
    Line 13: kanji reads 最後刻まれていた while romaji reads "saigo ni kizamarete ita," adding a nonexistent "ni"

    As for the last line - although 筋 does in fact refer to a line, "a line of tears" may give the impression that there are multiple tears, while 一筋の涙 is only one tear that leaves a trail behind as it drips down one's face, ergo the line - I believe it may be better conveyed as "a single tear," to make the number more clear.

    I don't mean to nitpick at little wording choices, though - I focus here because that's really all I can find to pick at! This is a wonderful translation, I think - good job! ^^
    Thank you for your guidance! I have amended the translation with your corrections.
    Line 13: Japanese text corrected to have the ni before kizamarete ita
    Line 14: "a line of tears drips down──" changed to "a single tear trails and drips down──"

    Translation:
    Haruna Luna - Mahou no Shiro, Shinjitsu no Shomotsu
    春奈瑠奈 - 魔法の城、真実の書物
    Haruna Luna - The magic castle and tome of truth

    saisho no peeji wo mekuru yubi wa furueteita
    最初の頁をめくる指は震えていた。
    The fingers turning the first page were shaking.

    "subete wo shiru kakugo ga aru no ka na?" to hon wa tou.
    「総てを知る覚悟があるのかな?」 と本は問う。
    "Do you have the resolve to know everything?", the book asks.

    hokori ni mamireta shomotsu no naka ni wa anata no shirushita "shinjitsu" ga nemuru.
    埃に塗れた書物の中には貴方の記した「真実」が眠る。
    Inside the book mired in dust, the "truth" you wrote sleeps.

    fukai mori no oku ni aru oshiro ni wa mahou ga kakatte imashita.
    深い森の奥に在るお城には魔法が掛かっていました。
    A magic spell had been cast on the castle that lay in the middle of the deep wood.

    mayoikonda watashi wa, sono hon wo te ni shite shimaimashita.
    迷い込んだ私は、その本を手にしてしまいました。
    I, who had strayed in, had gotten hold of that book.

    hokori ni mamireta shomotsu no naka ni wa anata no shirushita "shinjitsu" ga nemuru.
    埃に塗れた書物の中には貴方の記した「真実」が眠る。
    Inside the book mired in dust, the "truth" you wrote sleeps.

    furueru yubisaki, yukkuri to ugoku.
    震える指先、ゆっくりと動く。
    The trembling fingers move slowly.

    zawameku ankoku
    ざわめく暗黒。
    The darkness stirs.


    ──peeji wo mekutta.
    ──頁をめくった。
    ──I turned the page.

    soko ni shirusarete ita no wa anata ga kieta wake.
    そこに記されていたのは貴方が消えた理由(わけ)。
    There was written the reason you had disappeared;

    watashi ga shindeshimatta to iu "daishinjitsu" ga.
    私が死んでしまったという「真実(だいしんじつ)」が。
    the "real truth" was that I had died.

    "anata wa watashi wo tasukeru tame ni tamashii wo gisei ni shitanda."
    「貴方は私の助けるために魂を犠牲にしたんだ。」
    "You sacrificed your soul in order to save me."

    "aishiteimasu" to shomotsu no saigo ni kizamarete ita.
    「愛しています」と書物の最後に刻まれていた。
    "I love you" was engraved into the final page of the tome.

    subete wo omoidashita ato ni namida ga hitosuji, potari, ochite──.
    すべてを思い出した後に涙が一筋、ぽたり、落ちて── 。
    After I remembered everything, a single tear trails and drips down──.

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