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Thread: Why are people afraid of debating here or engaging lately?

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Why are people afraid of debating here or engaging lately?

    Quote Originally Posted by MAL OR AF View Post
    Hold on, buddy! Please don't take my thread and adjust the meaning behind my claims! Actually, what you're saying implies smart conversations could of increased and not adjusted in the other direction! Don't you agree that if vocabulary increased (maybe even ten fold!) that conversations should of gotten far stronger? Well, that is clearly not the case! Also, allow me to point out that growing up has actually a stronger impact on smarter conversations and all that jazz!
    No, what I'm trying to imply is that your perception of a strong debate and a "quality" post are skewed because of the people around that were using strong and informative techniques and such when conversing. Hence why I said the thing about if you look back to their older posts when AF was a young site, the perception might change. Just like how I'm slightly adamant about practicing decent grammar and spelling because of all the grammar Nazis that were in AF Chat when I first started going there. If you took their examples of a quality post or good debate out of the argument, how would you quantity or qualify the different levels of postings and debates? Particularly, which is good and which is bad?

    You keep implying I want hostile debates in the second paragraph, and that just indicates you aren't reading my entire posts or allowing my points to soak in! Actually, if you're hostile when debating all the time then you likely live in your parent's basement. Actually, most of the paragraph is straying from my point. If you're going to debate, stay relevant champ!
    If you feel I was implying that, then I'm sorry. I wasn't implying or trying to imply that you wanted such things. I was merely making a conjecture off of side point that was brought up earlier (albeit not by you). The intention was purely that the forms of debate we know of and prefer are pretty much dead online everywhere, because people would rather be trolls than hold serious discussions.

    As Deathblade officially hits the point of no return in terms of logical thinking! I predicted in this very thread somebody would say: "do it yourself"!!! Well DB, what do you call this? What do you call the points made in my posts up until now? You keep dodging the issue by bringing up the serious discussion section, but that's proof smart debating is vastly adjusted!
    Look, the thing is that everyone has the ability and free reign to make such serious discussions. What limits them is not the site or the crowd. What do I call this? A good effort. But one good effort isn't going to do much if there isn't more to back it up (ie: Your thread about Bernie Sanders helping add more serious discussions). And if you had read my one sentence bringing up Serious Talk in my last post, you might've caught that point. Because a collective effort for more serious discussion, that might be seen as too mature for a PG-13 site, is what made that sub section, not just one person's whim.

    Yes my "Do it yourself" attitude may be cliché, but that's just the type of person I am. I may gripe and moan about all sorts of things, but I'm still working on how to fix the issue while I'm griping. That said, what am I dodging? Your complaint? No, I'm here responding to you. Responsibility to my section by saying "Do it yourself"? No, but trying to force serious debates isn't going to help either. The issue in and of itself? No, because I'm all for more serious discussions. But why should I have to go start a serious thread because you feel there aren't enough of them?
    Last edited by DeathBlade/13.666; 06-05-2016 at 04:45 PM.
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  2. #27
    Senior Member Syaoran has a reputation beyond repute Syaoran has a reputation beyond repute Syaoran has a reputation beyond repute Syaoran has a reputation beyond repute Syaoran has a reputation beyond repute Syaoran has a reputation beyond repute Syaoran has a reputation beyond repute Syaoran has a reputation beyond repute Syaoran has a reputation beyond repute Syaoran has a reputation beyond repute Syaoran has a reputation beyond repute Syaoran's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are people afraid of debating here or engaging lately?

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Can't force insightful discussion replies bro. If it ain't there, it just isn't. That being said I feel like I don't know enough about anything to reply to most topics - I feel like that there's going to be someone who is going to shut down what I say. It hasn't happened yet but I do get those vibes for whatever reason.

    Honestly though if you aren't getting what you want out of this site after your prolonged efforts, you might as well try to find somewhere else that's going to give you what I want. I'm not saying that as a gtfo kind of comment but rather as a suggestion.

    :Y no one wants to see AF be dead and lame but idk bro


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  3. #28
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    Default Re: Why are people afraid of debating here or engaging lately?

    People don't discuss things because right now 90% of the internet is comprised of dumb annoying cunts who are addicted to their facebook or tumblr feed, and only go on the internet to scroll through content at hyper speed without contributing.
    I really think that's the problem these days. Most people want to zone out and stare at their screen with dead eyes- they don't want to contribute. They want to consume, consume, consume. I think that's also why there are not a lot of people talking around here. They don't want to join a discussion, they want to read posts other people make without posting themselves. Which sucks.
    I don't really think it's AF's fault that people aren't posting anymore, honestly. It's the attitude of the common internet user that's slowing down this site. Which is very tragic, because that means there isn't a lot you can do about the perceived problems this site is facing.

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Why are people afraid of debating here or engaging lately?

    Quote Originally Posted by Syaoran View Post
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Can't force insightful discussion replies bro. If it ain't there, it just isn't. That being said I feel like I don't know enough about anything to reply to most topics - I feel like that there's going to be someone who is going to shut down what I say. It hasn't happened yet but I do get those vibes for whatever reason.

    Honestly though if you aren't getting what you want out of this site after your prolonged efforts, you might as well try to find somewhere else that's going to give you what I want. I'm not saying that as a gtfo kind of comment but rather as a suggestion.

    :Y no one wants to see AF be dead and lame but idk bro
    Yoko has sadly been busy and will be watching Japanese animation later, so allow me to reply to you first and then I'll tackle DB and the rest later since your post can be tackled quite simply. If you were reading through the posts, you would of noticed me bringing up a couple other websites that still has users with a variety of unique personalities! So, it goes without saying that AF isn't the only community that contains the human that is myself! So, completely abandoning AF after admitting that I've growned concerned and want to better this forum would make my efforts in this thread completely bizarre! This counter-productive attitude of "nothing interesting to post in or check other websites" is actually making the situation more understandable to me.


    Maybe some people just don't care? At least, it seems that way!

    ---------- Post added at 09:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kumagawa View Post
    People don't discuss things because right now 90% of the internet is comprised of dumb annoying cunts who are addicted to their facebook or tumblr feed, and only go on the internet to scroll through content at hyper speed without contributing.
    I really think that's the problem these days. Most people want to zone out and stare at their screen with dead eyes- they don't want to contribute. They want to consume, consume, consume. I think that's also why there are not a lot of people talking around here. They don't want to join a discussion, they want to read posts other people make without posting themselves. Which sucks.
    I don't really think it's AF's fault that people aren't posting anymore, honestly. It's the attitude of the common internet user that's slowing down this site. Which is very tragic, because that means there isn't a lot you can do about the perceived problems this site is facing.
    Hmm, how about I offer this question to you.

    Is there a way to cure this mindset? I grasp we can't force people to engage in activity, but what's the point to join a forum if you don't want to engage in discussion? Seems slightly strange to me. I ask you this because you seem like a logical guy and Yoko likes logical men!

    ---------- Post added at 09:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:16 PM ----------

    Actually, DB: Yoko will answer you now while reflecting on the grand ol past of this very thread! You bring up a strong point and that point is that my opinion is skewered due to me being apart of this website during those years! Logically, you're correct. With many of the veterans gone and this new mindset taking over, maybe its just logical to believe nobody wants to engage anymore because they believe this is how AF is due to the new era crowd all doing it? Though, what's the point? It isn't wrong to want engagement is there? Actually as a moderator, you should be applauding a user that is oozing effort and dedication to better AF! Am I wrong for bringing this up or possibly am I just bringing up an issue nobody feels like discussing? Either way, I believe this discussion is very positive!

    Also, I grasp that. Even MAL has trolls, though the trolls there still engage! It is possible to perform both, but is becoming a lost art my dear friend! Though, I need to point out once again that bringing up the serious discussion section is just a way to throw the issue under the rug! The "serious discussion section is there for engagement and actual discussions" so I don't need to engage elsewhere excuse is a commonly used statement here and is also counter-productive! As users, we should aim to better this website and not limit ourselves to just that section. As a guy that is trying, bringing up the "do it yourself" argument is invalid because its irrelevant due to the effort I am putting in. Actually, I could actually use that argument on you or a few others since there is a lot of counter-productive statements going around!

    I'm not asking you to make a serious thread because I said so, but rather analyze the situation and engage in more activity! I do really like you DB, but you need to admit that this thread and competing logic versus logic is pretty fun!
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  5. #30
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    Default Re: Why are people afraid of debating here or engaging lately?

    Quote Originally Posted by MAL OR AF View Post

    Bring it on. Everybody who knows our history understands you want to insult me! Actually, if this was 2012 you would of already! Stay mature, but bring it on champ! Yoko wants to be insulted... or at least debated with..!
    I'm not going to insult you nor do I want to..... I like arguing but I don't like insults as much, though I don't mind returning them if they are received but I digress.... Despite everything; I understand where you're coming from. Granted I used to argue, get into trivial disagreements and have stronger opinions and will compared to your average user and I'm not going to pretend I do not or do not remember how I used to be.. I kind of toned down my battles for the sake of the green username. However you made a solid observation that I've noticed a long time ago. You're not saying anything much in regards to our activity levels; but rather the mindsets of our current users have changed. Which it has. Part of me misses the old days; it was fun though it did have a LOT of problems. Users quit sometimes and they made sure they kicked the doors on the way out.

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  6. #31
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    Default Re: Why are people afraid of debating here or engaging lately?

    Quote Originally Posted by blueangel06661 View Post
    I'm not going to insult you nor do I want to..... I like arguing but I don't like insults as much, though I don't mind returning them if they are received but I digress.... Despite everything; I understand where you're coming from. Granted I used to argue, get into trivial disagreements and have stronger opinions and will compared to your average user and I'm not going to pretend I do not or do not remember how I used to be.. I kind of toned down my battles for the sake of the green username. However you made a solid observation that I've noticed a long time ago. You're not saying anything much in regards to our activity levels; but rather the mindsets of our current users have changed. Which it has. Part of me misses the old days; it was fun though it did have a LOT of problems. Users quit sometimes and they made sure they kicked the doors on the way out.
    Me and you are the future AF tag team champions. I like how we sorta see eye to eye on this and feel our relationship is already vastly better. Heck, your brute power made me quit for a few months in 2012. It was scary and you brought me to my knees!
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  7. #32
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    Default Re: Why are people afraid of debating here or engaging lately?

    Quote Originally Posted by MAL OR AF View Post
    Me and you are the future AF tag team champions. I like how we sorta see eye to eye on this and feel our relationship is already vastly better. Heck, your brute power made me quit for a few months in 2012. It was scary and you brought me to my knees!
    I did that a lot... It's even sadder to know that for the most part I don't really remember anything. I've had a few people come up to me and say something like "sorry we didn't get along in the past" and I've had to ask them exactly what was the problem because I was so far gone with it. I generally start each disagreement with a clean slate. Some people tend to think I have something against them; but in reality they just post stupid stuff a lot.




    ---------- Post added at 09:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:50 PM ----------

    Also; don't be fooled; you're going to say something idiotic and I'll call you out on it and you'll go back to thinking I hate you.... Happens all the time..

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  9. #33
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    Default Re: Why are people afraid of debating here or engaging lately?

    Quote Originally Posted by MAL OR AF View Post

    Hmm, how about I offer this question to you.

    Is there a way to cure this mindset?
    There is no cure. Welcome to the future.

  10. #34
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    Default Re: Why are people afraid of debating here or engaging lately?

    Quote Originally Posted by blueangel06661 View Post
    I did that a lot... It's even sadder to know that for the most part I don't really remember anything. I've had a few people come up to me and say something like "sorry we didn't get along in the past" and I've had to ask them exactly what was the problem because I was so far gone with it. I generally start each disagreement with a clean slate. Some people tend to think I have something against them; but in reality they just post stupid stuff a lot.




    ---------- Post added at 09:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:50 PM ----------

    Also; don't be fooled; you're going to say something idiotic and I'll call you out on it and you'll go back to thinking I hate you.... Happens all the time..

    Its okay, that just indicates you don't let internet arguments drag you down which is a good thing. Remembering all your arguments would be unhealthy and bring uneeded anxiety.

    Not during this run! Yoko is a face now and Yoko wants to help the admins!

    ---------- Post added at 10:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kumagawa View Post
    There is no cure. Welcome to the future.
    As legacy said - its a new day..
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  11. #35
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    Default Re: Why are people afraid of debating here or engaging lately?

    Quote Originally Posted by MAL OR AF View Post
    Actually, DB: Yoko will answer you now while reflecting on the grand ol past of this very thread! You bring up a strong point and that point is that my opinion is skewered due to me being apart of this website during those years! Logically, you're correct. With many of the veterans gone and this new mindset taking over, maybe its just logical to believe nobody wants to engage anymore because they believe this is how AF is due to the new era crowd all doing it? Though, what's the point? It isn't wrong to want engagement is there? Actually as a moderator, you should be applauding a user that is oozing effort and dedication to better AF! Am I wrong for bringing this up or possibly am I just bringing up an issue nobody feels like discussing? Either way, I believe this discussion is very positive!
    The point is that the engagement is there. You just feel that it isn't because it's not up to the standard that you're used to. Have you not paid any attention to the discussions in Western and other sections that bring up various issues and allow for people to openly talk about them? Now I do applaud your efforts to bring more discussions, but I cannot lie and say this doesn't feel like a bit of disillusionment with the past; especially with this thread and what's been said (how ever so glowing the praise is of the past). Had you simply just started various discussions without making a deal of the perceived lack of discussion, then the last sentence would've stopped at "discussions".

    Also, I grasp that. Even MAL has trolls, though the trolls there still engage! It is possible to perform both, but is becoming a lost art my dear friend! Though, I need to point out once again that bringing up the serious discussion section is just a way to throw the issue under the rug! The "serious discussion section is there for engagement and actual discussions" so I don't need to engage elsewhere excuse is a commonly used statement here and is also counter-productive! As users, we should aim to better this website and not limit ourselves to just that section. As a guy that is trying, bringing up the "do it yourself" argument is invalid because its irrelevant due to the effort I am putting in. Actually, I could actually use that argument on you or a few others since there is a lot of counter-productive statements going around!

    I'm not asking you to make a serious thread because I said so, but rather analyze the situation and engage in more activity! I do really like you DB, but you need to admit that this thread and competing logic versus logic is pretty fun!
    First let me stop you right there. You kept harping on the Serious Talk sub section as a means of detracting from this thread, and it's not. It was brought up that a cause for the drop in serious discussions on the forum was the fact that people didn't want to offend anyone (Post #3). I brought up that the Serious Talk was a way to get around that by dealing with more mature people only. A solution if the cause is true, especially considering K+ isn't the only one expressing an issue with people not posting due to other peoples' reactions. Then you attacked the notion by calling it "proof" that things have changed. While it may be true, you have not really explained how it is evidence to your claims... After that I was trying to better explain to another user that Serious Talk can be used for more than just politics, and you attacked it again providing only a mere observational anecdote as evidence. Capernicus and Eris could do better than that, and simply I disagree with it as I feel your observations are skewed by your perceptions. But then we got onto the topic of effort, and I attempted to use Serious Talk as a means to show how well a collective effort can work for the good of the forum, especially seeing as it was something those old users you like to hold up on a pedestal fought to have. In which you took to bashing Serious Talk again without defending your stance; stating that I'm dodging the issue. If you want me to stop talking about the damn section, fine. But quit trying to make it seem like I'm just trying to brush this whole thread off with "There's a Serious Talk area, go discussion there." I'm NOT. You keep attacking it as if it's some plagued area, when it's not. You say it's counter productive to talk about it, but the very thing you want is right there in it (literally every thread in there, bub). The only leg you have to stand on is that you want that level of discussion over the whole site and in every section/sub section. Yet you can't even properly explain your stance as to how I'm using it to dodge anything, and you haven't even bothered to look at the few serious discussions going on outside of that area to help or dismiss your case. You'd rather just use this thread as your "main effort" when your other recent threads would've stood better in your defense (albeit, in just my opinion). Also, by the way my "Do it yourself" argument was more for Mac anyways, just worked out that I could use it for you and Mac. But hey! Look at you, new threads for better discussions. Doing it all that by yourself. Never doubt yourself, Yoko. Keep up the good work.
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  12. #36
    Kaitou+ has a reputation beyond repute Kaitou+ has a reputation beyond repute Kaitou+ has a reputation beyond repute Kaitou+ has a reputation beyond repute Kaitou+ has a reputation beyond repute Kaitou+ has a reputation beyond repute Kaitou+ has a reputation beyond repute Kaitou+ has a reputation beyond repute Kaitou+ has a reputation beyond repute Kaitou+ has a reputation beyond repute Kaitou+ has a reputation beyond repute Kaitou+'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are people afraid of debating here or engaging lately?

    >mfw when people actually were intimidated by @blueangel06661 back in the day.



    Maybe because I knew her actual height and always saw her as a Chihuahua that barked but didn't bite. Or maybe because she wasn't on my level back in the day too. I kind of toned down as well I would say, but not because of selling out for a position, but there isn't much need to...I outgrown it too.

    Anyway, I'm thinking of getting the ball rolling and start the first controversial thread of the new AF era.
    Last edited by Kaitou+; 06-05-2016 at 11:08 PM.

  13. #37
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    Default Re: Why are people afraid of debating here or engaging lately?

    First of all, thank you for applauding me! Though, I still am under the drastic impression that you find this thread more of an annoyance and rather less helpful and that is pretty much decided upon your tone and how offended you sound. Now, do you really believe anything you are saying when you say "the engagement is still there!". I mean, maybe a little? Though, face the facts DB and even the admin of this website agrees with me: AF HAS CHANGED!!!!! and it hasn't been for the better. While I am not saying activity is the problem, the issue lies in this thread itself. I've already counted three counter-productive posts in this thread alone, and two of which were from moderators themselves. You know when a moderator saids "nothing interesting to post in so I won't post" that there is a cancerous mindset going around.

    Not to mention you're becoming a broken record with the serious discussion section. Heck, is that your catchphrase? I am sick of that section because you continue to hide behind it and continue to use it everytime an argument about AF is brought up. Honestly, most of your post is just you repeating yourself about how my perception is skewered and how smart conversations can be had in that section.

    That's all I got from your post. It was a mountain of dribble and yet again you fail to debate without using that section as a defense of yours.

    End: I cut the message short because there just isn't much to say. Even if you want to deny it, you use that section as a method to dodge any complaints like I have here and it weakens your argument because its a foolish way to try and throw the issue under the rug. Maybe I have a skewered perception, but nothing I have said is wrong and even you, kaitou, BA have agreed with me that the mindset of the userbase has changed.

    So if you look at my argument, saying you agree with me is actually saying I am right. Thank you for agreeing with me. I do want to say this though: No hard feelings. I respect the hell out of you amigo. I just don't believe you believe what you're saying anymore. If I'm wrong there? I don't see this portion of the debate ending. Its just repeating itself now.
    Nonon Jakuzure - Best Kill la Kill bae
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    Pretty damn great! #spoke2soon

  14. #38
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    Default Re: Why are people afraid of debating here or engaging lately?

    I'm gonna try to provide source material and content enough to make that thread look as serious as possible. Should be pretty good, I hope and not go downhill.

  15. #39
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    Default Re: Why are people afraid of debating here or engaging lately?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou+ View Post
    >mfw when people actually were intimidated by @blueangel06661 back in the day.



    Maybe because I knew her actual height and always saw her as a Chihuahua that barked but didn't bite. Or maybe because she wasn't on my level back in the day too. I kind of toned down as well I would say, but not because of selling out for a position, but there isn't much need to...I outgrown it too.

    Anyway, I'm thinking of getting the ball rolling and start the first controversial thread of the new AF era.
    Roll the ball!!!

    Do it amigo. THE NEW ERA HAS JUST BEGUN!
    Nonon Jakuzure - Best Kill la Kill bae
    Ota "The Cutest Otaku" 2016 - Lol, how's your account doing lately? Oh wait.
    Pretty damn great! #spoke2soon

  16. #40
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    Default Re: Why are people afraid of debating here or engaging lately?

    Quote Originally Posted by MAL OR AF View Post
    Yoko has sadly been busy and will be watching Japanese animation later, so allow me to reply to you first and then I'll tackle DB and the rest later since your post can be tackled quite simply. If you were reading through the posts, you would of noticed me bringing up a couple other websites that still has users with a variety of unique personalities! So, it goes without saying that AF isn't the only community that contains the human that is myself! So, completely abandoning AF after admitting that I've growned concerned and want to better this forum would make my efforts in this thread completely bizarre! This counter-productive attitude of "nothing interesting to post in or check other websites" is actually making the situation more understandable to me.
    :Y I mean you're not really obligated to bring AF back to life so to speak. idk what point I wanted to make in the first place lol but gl with what you're doing buddy


    ll Set by Duck [Daken] ll Sprites by genericnpc on Tumblr ll Formerly Dark Butterfly



  17. #41
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    Default Re: Why are people afraid of debating here or engaging lately?

    Quote Originally Posted by Syaoran View Post
    :Y I mean you're not really obligated to bring AF back to life so to speak. idk what point I wanted to make in the first place lol but gl with what you're doing buddy
    I know I'm not obligated, but was Obama obligated to run for president? I'm not trying to come off as an annoyance, but rather trying to arise my fellow AF users! I am crowning AF's new era officially underway. If you post, I will oppose you! If I oppose you, be ready to oppose me!
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    Pretty damn great! #spoke2soon

  18. #42
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    Default Re: Why are people afraid of debating here or engaging lately?

    So you didn't bother to even make an attempt to understand anything I wrote then... So with that, wouldn't you say you're also apart of the problem? I mean part of having a serious discussion is actually taking the time to read and understand what people are saying. Not just "tl;dr, thanks for telling me I'm right." Not gonna lie, the people you idealize for their serious discussions would be highly disappointed to read that.

    Even still you haven't even made the slightest attempt to define what is a good quality discussion. I mean if we're all supposed to change for the better, shouldn't that "better" be defined so that everyone understands?

    And before you chide me on my perception of engagement being around, you better take a step back and research what you're talking about instead of attempting to pass off things with a silly anecdote to compare the old days and the new.

    Honestly I was hoping this would end up similar to the "Forum is Dead" thread, but if you can't even take your own stance and debate seriously. Why should I even bother to consider this any more than just a "WAHHH! AF isn't to my liking" thread? Especially when I know more can be done without this thread than with.
    Good ol' Dogs never Die, they just keepin on livin' till their time comes.


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  19. #43
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    Default Re: Why are people afraid of debating here or engaging lately?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathBlade/13.666 View Post
    So you didn't bother to even make an attempt to understand anything I wrote then... So with that, wouldn't you say you're also apart of the problem? I mean part of having a serious discussion is actually taking the time to read and understand what people are saying. Not just "tl;dr, thanks for telling me I'm right." Not gonna lie, the people you idealize for their serious discussions would be highly disappointed to read that.

    Even still you haven't even made the slightest attempt to define what is a good quality discussion. I mean if we're all supposed to change for the better, shouldn't that "better" be defined so that everyone understands?

    And before you chide me on my perception of engagement being around, you better take a step back and research what you're talking about instead of attempting to pass off things with a silly anecdote to compare the old days and the new.

    Honestly I was hoping this would end up similar to the "Forum is Dead" thread, but if you can't even take your own stance and debate seriously. Why should I even bother to consider this any more than just a "WAHHH! AF isn't to my liking" thread? Especially when I know more can be done without this thread than with.
    I want to say that you're totes wrong! Yoko does not idealize these people, but just wanting to say people have changed here and multiple people have agreed with me (including you). Debates are typically won and lost by wording and presented arguments, and by agreeing with me that people have indeed changed: YOU LOST BUCKO! Just facts bruh.

    Though, Yoko will humor you. Yoko was noticing hostile vibes in your tone starting to arise and he is also tired of debating the same facts with you. Now, your recent post is a lot cleaner. Honestly, your other post was repeated dribble and its on you to make a coherent argument while not back-peddiling (think i spelled dat wrong sobsob). Now to start: Honestly, why da hell were you hoping it'd become like that thread? While arguments were made, that guy clearly was getting ahead of himself and was basically saying it was more active when he first joined which is just a cliche argument that honestly got to many replies. So please, take a step back and let me say: I'll declare where my thread ends up. Understood amigo?

    Now, am I whining? Seems like nobody else thought that or at least mentioned "WAHHH" so you're clearly grasping at straws here. Actually, why would a valid complaint that even the admin agreed with be whining? I mean, sure.... you can argue I am saddened by the change, but dude in no way is whining the same thing as debating. LEARN THE DIFFERENCE DUDE! Heck, my tone has been very mature.

    DB asks: What's a good discussion? Okay man, no fear. I can hold your hand through this since you obviously don't get what a good discussion is! A good discussion is a discussion that actually has users offering their opinions while opposing opposite opinions! This still happens here, but very rarely. Nobody seperates themselves from the flock anymore. Nobody tries anymore! No offense, but excluding a few people.... I can't remember any new people here! Let's face it - most credible people here are the veteran users. Heck, look at this thread for proof. Mostly old members have debated with me or told me I might not be right! Sure, newer members have too, but they weren't as outspoken as you nor as correct as blueangel nor as straight to the point and even embraced change like kaitou. Now, what do you three have in common? What do I have in common with you? Statistics back my claims in other areas too. Look in the anime section: I have debated with various members in the last three years and they just got angry or couldn't handle opposite opinions.

    ASK OMEGA - Somebody fled AF after I tried debating over the new sailor moon!
    ASK ME - Somebody gets angry with me for opposing their opinions on my thread!
    ASK BLUEANGEL - She admits people were different back in the day!
    ASK Kaitou - He has told me in voice party this is true!
    ASK dat guy who quit AF - Because I opposed his bad views on anime!
    ASK this thread - Look who's debating with me!
    ASK Des - He agreed with me on another site!

    Honestly, I could go on and on here. You agreed the mindset has changed so you yourself locked yourself in that web. If you agree that the mindset has changed while reading your earlier posts in this thread, not agreeing with my OP now is just stupid and bad debating skills. ALSO BUDDY, I am not part of the problem. YOU ARE AMIGO!!! Defending the current era like you are IS ACTUALLY DEFENDING THE NOT ENGAGING FORMULA NOWADAYS!

    ---------- Post added at 02:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:56 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by deathblade/13.666 View Post
    well there is the serious talk sub section for more in-depth debating (ie: Political, religious, moral topics). While it may not be the most active, there's still plenty of freedom to have dissenting ideas and such. That said there's still room for non-serious debating (goku vs. Superman arguments) in just about every section of the forum.
    also i am requoting this for proof that you do always use dis which actually contradicts a later statement by you

    ---------- Post added at 03:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:59 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathBlade/13.666 View Post
    Well I am a cardboard cutout, so yeah... That's why you feel that way. XD

    Still, I'm not gonna lie I just don't see where you're coming from on this. Yes the older members and staffers helped build a lot of quality into every post, but they did more than just force everyone to "post better". Much of what they did was purely making sure every post they had made was on point with high quality, and much of that was purely due to their own personal standards that they set for themselves on a daily basis online and offline.

    And @PictureGuy , I understand what you mean. Not many people come to an anime forum to talk about the significance of Pope Francis allowing women to become Deacons again. But our Serious Talk area is more than just politics and the like. Mostly it's just a way to hold a convo on any serious subject without younger, more immature, users butting in with things that would keep the conversation from being seen as a serious one. And also it helps keep the spambots and trolls out.
    AND again!!

    ---------- Post added at 03:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:02 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranshiin View Post
    Debate what, exactly?

    Maybe there just isn't anything that I read in this sub-forum that particularly interests me enough to reply. Or maybe I've just got better things to be doing than arguing with people?
    look at this!!!!! CLEARLY COUNTER PRODUCTIVE and supports my theory

    ---------- Post added at 03:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:04 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou+ View Post
    Again, it comes to what I just said about people and their Safe Space. It's an issue not only affecting AF but the internet in general.

    AF could be more active if people weren't afraid to be assertive.
    safe space! see!

    ---------- Post added at 03:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:05 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by deathblade/13.666 View Post
    well yes posting habits have changed, yoko. I like how you keep bring up older and respected members from just under a decade ago, but if you take a trip down the "wayback" machine you'll find their habits were different back when they first joined too. Especially if you dig into the old tux stuff or "pre-animeforum" anime globe. And it's like ba said. People grew up. There habits changed as they got older, they vocabulary and grammar usage increased, more serious topics became more important as well as properly researching them, etc. Heck, many of the people you point out were going for a masters degree and/or held very respectable and wanted jobs in 2008 and up. I'm pretty sure my post quality's gone up since i completed my bachelors degree, though i might be wrong (but i'd like to think i'm right).

    Now on the point that k+ and others have made, yes it's not just af. It seems that sensible debating and conversation has simply gone the way of the dodo everywhere online, and people care more to post crappy memes, irritate others, and angrily type nasty things to each other than hold a decent conversation. Just look at fb, tumblr, and twitter. Granted, i'm glad most of the foolishness is on those sites instead of af, but it's not like they're holding any better conversations than we are now. Yes we may seem dead because their isn't any name-calling, typing in all caps!, or any other usual crap in those fb arguments; but if people raving like mad men inflicted with mercury poisoning is what it takes to be alive, i'd rather be dead. And i'm sure i'm not alone, as there's a growing number of people moving away from social media.

    With that, why not simply try to start more conversations and debates with people? Or in @Ranshiin 's case, why not post about stuff that does interest you? I mean it's easy for one to say you need to be more pro-active to help push for the activity and quality you want, but it's better for one to make that push on their own. That effort was what made the serious talk section, in the first place. And i'm sure in many eyes, anything less would seem disingenuous.
    look at your last two sentences!

    ---------- Post added at 03:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:08 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by deathblade/13.666 View Post
    the point is that the engagement is there. You just feel that it isn't because it's not up to the standard that you're used to. Have you not paid any attention to the discussions in western and other sections that bring up various issues and allow for people to openly talk about them? Now i do applaud your efforts to bring more discussions, but i cannot lie and say this doesn't feel like a bit of disillusionment with the past; especially with this thread and what's been said (how ever so glowing the praise is of the past). Had you simply just started various discussions without making a deal of the perceived lack of discussion, then the last sentence would've stopped at "discussions".

    First let me stop you right there. You kept harping on the serious talk sub section as a means of detracting from this thread, and it's not. It was brought up that a cause for the drop in serious discussions on the forum was the fact that people didn't want to offend anyone (post #3). I brought up that the serious talk was a way to get around that by dealing with more mature people only. A solution if the cause is true, especially considering k+ isn't the only one expressing an issue with people not posting due to other peoples' reactions. Then you attacked the notion by calling it "proof" that things have changed. While it may be true, you have not really explained how it is evidence to your claims... After that i was trying to better explain to another user that serious talk can be used for more than just politics, and you attacked it again providing only a mere observational anecdote as evidence. Capernicus and eris could do better than that, and simply i disagree with it as i feel your observations are skewed by your perceptions. But then we got onto the topic of effort, and i attempted to use serious talk as a means to show how well a collective effort can work for the good of the forum, especially seeing as it was something those old users you like to hold up on a pedestal fought to have. In which you took to bashing serious talk again without defending your stance; stating that i'm dodging the issue. If you want me to stop talking about the damn section, fine. But quit trying to make it seem like i'm just trying to brush this whole thread off with "there's a serious talk area, go discussion there." i'm not. You keep attacking it as if it's some plagued area, when it's not. You say it's counter productive to talk about it, but the very thing you want is right there in it (literally every thread in there, bub). The only leg you have to stand on is that you want that level of discussion over the whole site and in every section/sub section. Yet you can't even properly explain your stance as to how i'm using it to dodge anything, and you haven't even bothered to look at the few serious discussions going on outside of that area to help or dismiss your case. You'd rather just use this thread as your "main effort" when your other recent threads would've stood better in your defense (albeit, in just my opinion). Also, by the way my "do it yourself" argument was more for mac anyways, just worked out that i could use it for you and mac. But hey! Look at you, new threads for better discussions. Doing it all that by yourself. :d never doubt yourself, yoko. Keep up the good work.
    how can i not harp on the serious discussion section when you use it here so often and elsewhere!!

    ---------- Post added at 03:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:10 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by PictureGuy View Post
    I am sort of surprised, and maybe a bit disappointed, that some of my reviews have not drawn comments from anyone who either agrees or disagrees with me. Also, when people respond to lists of certain favorites in a particular genre, they only post the names and nothing about the series or why they like it.

    On the other hand, nobody on this site seems anal -- like a certain other site I previously posted on. And the moderators don't screw around with your postings, unlike adultswim.com.
    More proof! Dissapointed user - his reasoning supports my theory!

    ---------- Post added at 03:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:12 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Syaoran View Post
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Can't force insightful discussion replies bro. If it ain't there, it just isn't. That being said I feel like I don't know enough about anything to reply to most topics - I feel like that there's going to be someone who is going to shut down what I say. It hasn't happened yet but I do get those vibes for whatever reason.

    Honestly though if you aren't getting what you want out of this site after your prolonged efforts, you might as well try to find somewhere else that's going to give you what I want. I'm not saying that as a gtfo kind of comment but rather as a suggestion.

    :Y no one wants to see AF be dead and lame but idk bro
    Counter-productive!

    ---------- Post added at 03:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:13 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou+ View Post
    I'm gonna try to provide source material and content enough to make that thread look as serious as possible. Should be pretty good, I hope and not go downhill.
    How can you disagree with me still? Kaitou is going to be making a great thread so this thread was certainly worth it.

    ---------- Post added at 03:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:15 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by blueangel06661 View Post
    I'm not going to insult you nor do I want to..... I like arguing but I don't like insults as much, though I don't mind returning them if they are received but I digress.... Despite everything; I understand where you're coming from. Granted I used to argue, get into trivial disagreements and have stronger opinions and will compared to your average user and I'm not going to pretend I do not or do not remember how I used to be.. I kind of toned down my battles for the sake of the green username. However you made a solid observation that I've noticed a long time ago. You're not saying anything much in regards to our activity levels; but rather the mindsets of our current users have changed. Which it has. Part of me misses the old days; it was fun though it did have a LOT of problems. Users quit sometimes and they made sure they kicked the doors on the way out.
    She's short, cute and right.

    ---------- Post added at 03:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:16 AM ----------

    Looking at all this evidence - How am I wrong? Evidence across the forum supports me and many people agree. DB you opened up a warzone and my evidence supports my theory. I'm not attacking AF, but get ready. A new era is upon us!

    ---------- Post added at 03:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:19 AM ----------

    @vrarsenal - I see you, opinions now?
    Last edited by Anime Forum; 06-06-2016 at 02:45 AM.
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  20. #44
    Forever Bound. DeathBlade/13.666 has a reputation beyond repute DeathBlade/13.666 has a reputation beyond repute DeathBlade/13.666 has a reputation beyond repute DeathBlade/13.666 has a reputation beyond repute DeathBlade/13.666 has a reputation beyond repute DeathBlade/13.666 has a reputation beyond repute DeathBlade/13.666 has a reputation beyond repute DeathBlade/13.666 has a reputation beyond repute DeathBlade/13.666 has a reputation beyond repute DeathBlade/13.666 has a reputation beyond repute DeathBlade/13.666 has a reputation beyond repute DeathBlade/13.666's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are people afraid of debating here or engaging lately?

    This is what you're big offering to this debate is? I'm starting to lose faith that even you are taking this seriously. I mean really, with all the speaking/typing in first and third person only in a horrid attempt to berate me. It's starting to look less like the problem you claim is here and more like you are the problem you're trying to fight against. You just quoted every time I brought up Serious Talk, even though I have already explained why I brought it up each time. Which is something you haven't even bothered to read, even though you quoted my explaination. If you're going to call me a broken record, you'd do best not to parrot me.

    That said, you claim you don't idealize the veteran debaters of old, but your beginning posts already discredit that. Yes, you may not whole heartedly idealize them and everything they did, but you minimally idealize how they conducted discussions and debates enough to want to bring that back. As for the "Forum is Dead" thread, you can say what you will about the poster or the op, but in the end through 14 pages and 346 reply posts a lot of serious matters where brought up, discussed, and a fair amount of productivity with the site came from it. This is looking less so, especially with your rush to "I'm right, I won, you are wrong, and you lost" attitude. Again it's only showing to me that you aren't even taking this discussion seriously.

    And you've completely missed my point about discussion quality. "A good discussion is a discussion that actually has users offering their opinions while opposing opposite opinions"... That's it? Did you steal that from some debate team powerpoint? Could you be anymore vague? The point I'm driving at here is that discussion quality is a subjective thing. How one feels about a discussion being good or bad depends on a variety of things. How they felt about the issue, how they interacted with others, how well they presented their case, the evidence they brought forth. You claim that statistics back your claims, okay. Show us your statistics. Now with a claim like "the mindsets have changed" is a fairly open-ended claim that is harder to disprove than prove. Sure mindsets have changed. Mine changes sporadically all the time. Others may not. But simply saying mindsets have changed isn't enough. Why? Because you're not even attempting to understand why they changed. Like it was brought up, there a several different factors. Trolls, not wanting to offend anyone, trying to keep things civilized and not get others outraged, etc. I mean, how are you going to fix an issue if you don't even understand the problem?

    And what's worse is that any attempt to discern a cause or causes to why mindsets have changed has only been pushed away as going off-topic. But it's not off-topic, it's trying to better understand the topic. I mean sure, whining is in no way the same as debating. But it's not like you're really debating either. You're just avoiding the next logical step to an evolving debate. And more so, you're telling me to essentially give up and accept your side because I agreed to a vague statement. All that tells me is that you've got a long way to go before you can bring in a "new era".
    Good ol' Dogs never Die, they just keepin on livin' till their time comes.


    I was born in AF Chat, molded by it, I didn't see AnimeForum until a few years after I decided to register my username.

  21. #45
    how 2 u sociul plz? Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are people afraid of debating here or engaging lately?

    Quote Originally Posted by MAL OR AF View Post
    look at this!!!!! CLEARLY COUNTER PRODUCTIVE and supports my theory
    Theory? Theory that I have nothing to add that's productive so I feel it better to say nothing at all and move on and do something else?


    I'm sorry, but if a topic doesn't interest me and I don't have anything to say in said topic/in making a new topic, then I've got no reason to say anything. And I know what you're going to tell me -- I should just think of something and post about it anyway! Right? Right???

    Well, that was my method (to my madness) back in 2007-2008 and I ended up being labelled an immature smart aleck and a spammer for my lack of tact, common sense and ability to rationalise arguments. So, yeah, I'm not going there. If there isn't anything being posted that interests me and there isn't anything to post about that isn't already posted about ((people tend to beat me to the punch, as it were)) then there isn't much I can do.


    And if you think I'm still being counter-productive? Congratulations, you in fact just made me type out a reply when instead I'm supposed to be going through my bills to see if I can afford a new keyboard. That doesn't seem very counter-productive to me.
    Last edited by Ranshiin; 06-06-2016 at 09:16 AM.
    : The Game. You just lost it. :



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  22. #46
    Kaitou+ has a reputation beyond repute Kaitou+ has a reputation beyond repute Kaitou+ has a reputation beyond repute Kaitou+ has a reputation beyond repute Kaitou+ has a reputation beyond repute Kaitou+ has a reputation beyond repute Kaitou+ has a reputation beyond repute Kaitou+ has a reputation beyond repute Kaitou+ has a reputation beyond repute Kaitou+ has a reputation beyond repute Kaitou+ has a reputation beyond repute Kaitou+'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are people afraid of debating here or engaging lately?

    I'm not sure what that hooligan is up to but I think that his mission was to rile you all up and he succeeded. Damn it Kagami.


  23. #47
    Senior Member Syaoran has a reputation beyond repute Syaoran has a reputation beyond repute Syaoran has a reputation beyond repute Syaoran has a reputation beyond repute Syaoran has a reputation beyond repute Syaoran has a reputation beyond repute Syaoran has a reputation beyond repute Syaoran has a reputation beyond repute Syaoran has a reputation beyond repute Syaoran has a reputation beyond repute Syaoran has a reputation beyond repute Syaoran's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are people afraid of debating here or engaging lately?

    :Y wat you even saying

    tldr pls try again


    ll Set by Duck [Daken] ll Sprites by genericnpc on Tumblr ll Formerly Dark Butterfly



  24. #48
    Kind boy/Nanobyte's minion Mystelinth has a reputation beyond repute Mystelinth has a reputation beyond repute Mystelinth has a reputation beyond repute Mystelinth has a reputation beyond repute Mystelinth has a reputation beyond repute Mystelinth has a reputation beyond repute Mystelinth has a reputation beyond repute Mystelinth has a reputation beyond repute Mystelinth has a reputation beyond repute Mystelinth has a reputation beyond repute Mystelinth has a reputation beyond repute Mystelinth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are people afraid of debating here or engaging lately?

    Yes
    Last edited by Mystelinth; 06-07-2016 at 05:48 PM.

  25. #49
    Senior Member Vaishu has a reputation beyond repute Vaishu has a reputation beyond repute Vaishu has a reputation beyond repute Vaishu has a reputation beyond repute Vaishu has a reputation beyond repute Vaishu has a reputation beyond repute Vaishu has a reputation beyond repute Vaishu has a reputation beyond repute Vaishu has a reputation beyond repute Vaishu has a reputation beyond repute Vaishu has a reputation beyond repute Vaishu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are people afraid of debating here or engaging lately?

    Things were obviously different back then and you may have a vague point.However forcing people
    to engage isn't really going to help and makes you sound pretty condescending.
    Also everyone has a different definition of a "good discussion".Some people are just satisfied with voicing their opinions and don't feel the need
    to argue over everything.
    Personally I don't post unless I have some knowledge on the topic or have something to contribute to the discussion.
    Before you start harping about how I "missed your point", just take a minute to see things form others' point of view.
    Otherwise, this thread is just a wild goose chase.
    Last edited by Vaishu; 06-08-2016 at 09:19 AM.

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  27. #50
    how 2 u sociul plz? Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are people afraid of debating here or engaging lately?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou+ View Post
    I'm not sure what that hooligan is up to but I think that his mission was to rile you all up and he succeeded. Damn it Kagami.

    Meh, maybe now he'll get off my back then.
    : The Game. You just lost it. :



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