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Thread: Help with あいのうた。

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    Default Help with あいのうた。

    I'd like some help with a verse from あいのうた。 by Menma. Lyrics/mp3 here. If you're interested I have a full translation on my site, but I mainly need help with verse 6:
    きれいでてれくさいあいのことば
    ほんとはそんなにすきじゃないけど
    がらじゃないとか言わないでほしい
    てれるからそんなに見ないでほしい
    My best translation so far:
    Words of love, beautiful yet awkward—
    truth is, I don't like them that much.
    But I don't want you to say like it's out of character.
    It's awkward so I don't want you to see it that much.
    I'm not entirely clear why he thinks his partner might say "がらじゃない" or why he doesn't want her to say it. And precisely what doesn't he want her to 見る? His awkwardness? Any ideas?

    PS I'm not very familiar with the expression がらじゃない but I came across this definition of がら (among many) at dic.yahoo.co.jp: その人に本来そなわっている品位・性格 with example 人のことを言える柄ではない.

    PPS I want to sub this song so if you happen to notice any other booboos please let me know.

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    Default Re: Help with あいのうた。

    I think 見る refers to "me". As in, "It's embarassing, so don't look at me like that", or something along those lines.

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    Default Re: Help with あいのうた。

    Quote Originally Posted by Haze~ View Post
    I think 見る refers to "me". As in, "It's embarassing, so don't look at me like that", or something along those lines.
    I think so too. Matches the overall context. ( kinda imagined the person saying じろじろみないで! /// <-blushing )

    Have not heard this song actually (have not listened to vocaloid works a lot), but lyrics are kinda interesting... (噂の「ツンデレ」ですか?ま、恥かしくて素直にならないのは確かに... しかも男の子ですよね)
    Last edited by 鏡花水月; 11-23-2015 at 03:43 AM.

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    Default Re: Help with あいのうた。

    ok thanks.

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    Default Re: Help with あいのうた。

    I'm not sure if you still want input, but here are a couple of things I've noticed:

    言えなかったほんとのこと
    口をついて出たうそのことば
    君へのごめんね うたにのせて
    今とどけるよ
    - 口をついて出る means: 次から次へと自然に言葉が出てくる. Your current translation does not quite convey the full meaning of this phrase.
    - With your current translation, I also find it somewhat hard to make the connection that the "I'm sorry" is him apologizing about not being able to tell her his truthful feelings sometimes and opting for (white) lies instead.

    がらじゃないとか言わないでほしい
    His partner might say that it's not like him, because he's usually not that honest about his feelings. He doesn't want her to say that, because it embarrasses him (to be put on the spot for doing something he usually doesn't do).

    てれるからそんなに見ないでほしい
    As Haze~ said, the object of 見る here is himself, i.e. "stop looking at me."

    いつかはぼくらに大切な人がふえて
    その度うれしいことも悲しいこともふえる
    その度 means "each time," "whenever." In your translation, it appears that you're interpreting the いつか as one single moment in time, whereas the implication is that it's a repeated action.

    光となって見えないけれど
    "be unseen" is rather too literal here.

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    Default Re: Help with あいのうた。

    Quote Originally Posted by Hinamawari View Post
    I'm not sure if you still want input, but here are a couple of things I've noticed:
    Ooh, I forgot about this thread. Yes please, any help is most welcome! And thanks for your feedback.

    言えなかったほんとのこと
    口をついて出たうそのことば
    君へのごめんね うたにのせて
    今とどけるよ
    口をついて出る means: 次から次へと自然に言葉が出てくる. Your current translation does not quite convey the full meaning of this phrase.
    I agree. Maybe "lying words that slipped from my mouth" is probably how I would say it in English.

    With your current translation, I also find it somewhat hard to make the connection that the "I'm sorry" is him apologizing about not being able to tell her his truthful feelings sometimes and opting for (white) lies instead.
    Yes but I can't see how the lyrics make any stronger connection either. I could say "So I put an 'I'm sorry' ..." but that's losing faithfulness to the original text.

    がらじゃないとか言わないでほしい
    His partner might say that it's not like him, because he's usually not that honest about his feelings. He doesn't want her to say that, because it embarrasses him (to be put on the spot for doing something he usually doesn't do).
    Thanks. I thought it would be something like that ...

    てれるからそんなに見ないでほしい
    As Haze~ said, the object of 見る here is himself, i.e. "stop looking at me."
    Yep, got that.

    いつかはぼくらに大切な人がふえて
    その度うれしいことも悲しいこともふえる
    その度 means "each time," "whenever." In your translation, it appears that you're interpreting the いつか as one single moment in time, whereas the implication is that it's a repeated action.
    Oh that's right. I tend to forget that, thanks for noticing.

    光となって見えないけれど
    "be unseen" is rather too literal here.
    Sou desu ne. I have a くせ of being literal when I can't think of a better way of expressing it.

    "We'll have turned into invisible light"? Sounds a bit weird to me.
    "We'll have become light and won't be around any more"? A bit too free for my tastes.
    Any better ideas anyone?

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    Default Re: Help with あいのうた。

    口をついて出たうそのことば

    うううん... I think there's a slight emphasis on the degree of repetition of the action (次から次へと), so I would probably render it as something like "the false words that I ended up saying, time and time again." (Also note that the word "mouth" does not necessarily have to be in the translation, in case you're concerned about staying close to the original, since it actually doesn't come up in the definition of "口をついて出る" quoted above).

    君へのごめんね うたにのせて

    Somehow the connection still seems stronger in the original for me. I think it might be because in the original, there's a certain connection between "言えなかったほんとのこと, 口をついて出たうそのことば" and "君へのごめんね," as in the former two naturally lead to the latter (so the train of thought would be something like: I couldn't be honest with you --> I feel bad about that). In the translation, I don't see this connection, partly because the use of the m dash here seems rather vague (I cannot quite tell how it functions here, semantically, as the two clauses are quite disjointed the way they are right now). I don't think it's being unfaithful to the original to make the association of ideas clearer, because otherwise, the translation would actually be lacking because it doesn't convey the second layer of meaning of the original.

    光となって見えないけれど

    "We'll have turned into light, invisible to the eyes"?

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    Default Re: Help with あいのうた。

    I looked up that kuchi phrase. Here's one definition
    すらすらと口から言葉が出る。また,無意識に思いがけない言葉が出る。
    and here's another similar to the one you cited
    思いがけずに言葉が出るさま、または、よどみなく言葉が次から次へと出る様子などを意味する表 現。

    So 次から次へと may be but isn't necessarily implied. I think maybe the point here is how a lie can slip out on the spur of the moment without conscious thought.

    Also I think I can express the connection between the uso and the gomen like this:
    Truthful things I couldn't tell you,
    lying words that slipped out of my mouth—
    I put an "I'm sorry" for them to you in song
    and send it to you now.
    It's not intrusive and I think it mends the connection made by the break in the syntax.

    With the bit when they're dead, I think I'll say
    we'll have disappeared and turned into light
    Thanks so much for your help. If only everyone put up their translations for review, I think Anime Lyrics would be so much better. It gets dissing from some quarters because there are a lot of mistakes in the translations and it's very hard to get them fixed.

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    Default Re: Help with あいのうた。

    I tend to go with the Nihon kokugo daijiten, since it's the most authoritative Japanese dictionary, but if you find the other definition in another trustworthy dictionary, then it should be safe enough to go with that. I definitely agree that one emphasis is on the almost involuntariness of the action.

    The revision for the uso/gomen part works for me. "We'll have disappeared and turned into light" sounds good, too. And no problem, I'm glad that helped.

    I've seen some of those comments as well, and I must say I agree with them to some extent. It's impossible to quality-control everything, though, especially when it only takes a short test for someone to gain access to submitting translations. I try to think of each translator as running their own section and being answerable for their own works, rather than thinking of everyone as belonging to one group. And I agree, it could be quite inconvenient to get one's translations fixed. I'm sure the admins would be available to help, but still.
    Last edited by Hinamawari; 11-28-2015 at 10:14 PM. Reason: formatting

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    Default Re: Help with あいのうた。

    Quote Originally Posted by Raichu View Post
    Thanks so much for your help. If only everyone put up their translations for review, I think Anime Lyrics would be so much better. It gets dissing from some quarters because there are a lot of mistakes in the translations and it's very hard to get them fixed.
    Every time I approve a test I encourage people to come to Lyric Discussions, but very few do--I'm not sure how else to encourage them. Then again, I'm a big hypocrite given that I haven't posted here myself in a while. I got out of the habit during the period when this subforum was more or less totally dead and never got back into it once it picked up again. I guess I should lead by example, be the change, etc.

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    Default Re: Help with あいのうた。

    Quote Originally Posted by bluepenguin View Post
    Every time I approve a test I encourage people to come to Lyric Discussions, but very few do--I'm not sure how else to encourage them.
    Depends how many songs get added each week as to whether this would work, but you could publish links to each week's new songs. I don't know how the site works internally but maybe you might be able to automate at least part of the process.

    If anyone then finds any issues, they can be discussed and the translator can then submit amendments if any.

    The only issue I can think of is that the translator might not participate but a consensus could be reached that a translation has a mistake, in which case probably the moderators would have to make a call on fixing it.
    Last edited by Raichu; 11-29-2015 at 01:42 AM.

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    Default Re: Help with あいのうた。

    Motivation, for anything, in just about all walks of life, is one of the hardest things to properly calculate and implement. It seems to be more than a sum of it's parts: content, audience, availability, and benefit. I do not know what that magic element is, but if you find it, please let me know. ^^

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    Default Re: Help with あいのうた。

    Quote Originally Posted by Raichu View Post
    Depends how many songs get added each week as to whether this would work, but you could publish links to each week's new songs. I don't know how the site works internally but maybe you might be able to automate at least part of the process.

    If anyone then finds any issues, they can be discussed and the translator can then submit amendments if any.

    The only issue I can think of is that the translator might not participate but a consensus could be reached that a translation has a mistake, in which case probably the moderators would have to make a call on fixing it.
    Thanks, this is an intriguing idea! I think it would be best to wait until January to try it, because NaAniTraMo tends to result in a higher volume of translations and in addition to making things harder for me, it might be stressful for translators to have to deal with corrections on five or seven recent translations while also trying to do new ones. But after that, I could do, let's say, a month-long trial run of posting a list of the past week's new translations in this subforum on Saturdays, pinging all the translators with @-mentions, and see how much traction that gets.

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