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Thread: Thorn - any suggestions?

  1. #1
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    Default Thorn - any suggestions?

    This song is a lot more open-ended than the other songs I've translated. I asked some Japanese people, and apparently they had no idea what the grammar is supposed to be; you just have to fill in the blanks. It makes me nervous, but I don't wanna just do love songs forever. Every single line could be translated differently, so this time I'm asking for comments/suggestions on the entire song. I think I connected all the verbs to their correct nouns, but I'm not 100% sure. Thankfully the song's not too long. I'm not sure how I can elegantly yet accurately translate 育てた刺. The last stanza is English, so I just left it that way.

    宇宙(そら)を 夢見ていた あの頃
    いま 心 壊れた破片(かけら)の中 零れ
    落ちてく
    Back in those days, I would just dream and dream of the sky
    And now, I feel it spilling over into the broken fragments
    Of my mind

    いつからだろう 心は凍えていた 震えていた
    どこからだろう 瞳には何も映らない 哀しみさえ
    彷徨った あの空に
    When did this start happening? My heart would ice up and shiver and shiver
    Where did this begin? Even the sadness that my eyes don't reflect at all
    Got lost wandering around in that sky

    鳥は 何処の空を 飛んでる?
    あの 風は 囁かないのだろう 二度と
    此処には
    Where are the birds soaring through the sky?
    Maybe that breeze will never whisper again
    Not here, anyway

    目覚めてみれば 心ない言葉たち 傷ついてく
    If I try to wake up, I end up getting hurt by callous remarks

    眠っていれば 焦がれる炎 焼き尽くして 優しさにも
    気付かない フリをして
    If I stay asleep, the flames of desire dwindle down to nothing—as well as my kindness
    All while I pretend not to notice

    独りぼっちで 蒼い夜の中にも 目覚めている
    心の中で 育てた棘(とげ)が痛みの中 失われた
    想い出の 血を流す
    Utterly alone, even in the middle of the pale night, I lie awake
    The thorn I cultivated, amidst all the pain in my mind, has been lost
    And it makes my memories bleed

    The pain will disappear, if only I could pull this thorn out-
    But the thorn that's growing in my mind
    makes me deny my feelings, makes me refuse love-
    and it bleeds inside of my memories.
    Leaves me with a scar in my heart.
    Last edited by Grain; 09-30-2014 at 01:18 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Thorn - any suggestions?

    Wow, who wrote this? The sentence ordering and dropped particles are very vague, but as long as you deliver what the song is trying to say then it'll be alright.

    >宇宙(そら)を 夢見ていた あの頃
    >いま 心 壊れた破片(かけら)の中 零れ
    >落ちてく
    >Back in those days, I would just dream and dream of the sky
    >And now, I feel it spilling over into the broken fragments
    >Of my mind

    There are two skies here; the "current" sky mentioned later and the figurative sky in this first line. But by verb doubling you're inserting a stress that isn't there originally.
    I absolutely love how you try to avoid repetition and used "mind" for the first 'kokoro'. Sadly this has to be specifically the "heart" as, the whole stanza is actually talking about the "dreams" that they "once had". Think of it like blood spilling out of the chest sort of thing.
    The dropped particles are: いま 心[の]壊れた破片(かけら)の中[から]零れ落ちてく
    Back then, I would dream of the skies above
    But those dreams are now trickling down from the pieces
    Of my shattered heart


    >いつからだろう 心は凍えていた 震えていた
    >どこからだろう 瞳には何も映らない 哀しみさえ
    >彷徨った あの空に
    >When did this start happening? My heart would ice up and shiver and shiver
    >Where did this begin? Even the sadness that my eyes don't reflect at all
    >Got lost wandering around in that sky

    So we've used "heart" up there and it's time to search for a synonym. I personally love using "deep inside".
    Verb doubling again; maybe it's your style for introducing stress but doesn't work for songs imho.
    And actually the third line is a separate sentence from the second, but relates to it. Remember, さえ is used in mostly negative context, so its parent is 映らない not 彷徨った.
    Frozen deep inside, shivering from its cold - when did it all began?
    Eyes can't see, not even the sadness - where did it all start?
    In that sky, I've lost my way

    The first two are patterned, so needed rearranging.

    It's getting late out here so I'll get back to the discussion later.

    ...so that you know where you can find me

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    Default Re: Thorn - any suggestions?

    >Wow, who wrote this?

    The one and only Keiko Kitagawa!

    >I absolutely love how you try to avoid repetition and used "mind" for the first 'kokoro'.

    If I did something well, it was only by accident!

    >It's getting late out here so I'll get back to the discussion later.

    Thanks for the help.

  5. #4
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    Default Re: Thorn - any suggestions?

    >鳥は 何処の空を 飛んでる?
    >あの 風は 囁かないのだろう 二度と
    >此処には
    >Where are the birds soaring through the sky?
    >Maybe that breeze will never whisper again
    >Not here, anyway

    Remember I told you about the two different skies?何処の空 is exactly "which sky", either the one in their dreams or the one they are currently lost in.
    The usage of だろう here is the affirmation sort (not the "maybe" one). The last two lines imply that the birds are flying in the figurative sky, as the wind doesn't make a sound i.e. blow in the current one.

    >目覚めてみれば 心ない言葉たち 傷ついてく
    >If I try to wake up, I end up getting hurt by callous remarks

    Eh why did you change it to "callous"? "Heartless" was the right and direct one.

    >眠っていれば 焦がれる炎 焼き尽くして 優しさにも
    >気付かない フリをして
    >If I stay asleep, the flames of desire dwindle down to nothing—as well as my kindness
    >All while I pretend not to notice

    Watch out for that に particle at the end, there is a use for that. You put down what would be 優しさも, but に gave 優しさ its location.
    If I stay asleep, the flames of desire shall - no matter how gently - scorch me all over
    And I'd pretend I didn't notice


    >独りぼっちで 蒼い夜の中にも 目覚めている
    >心の中で 育てた棘(とげ)が痛みの中 失われた
    >想い出の 血を流す
    >Utterly alone, even in the middle of the pale night, I lie awake
    >The thorn I cultivated, amidst all the pain in my mind, has been lost
    >And it makes my memories bleed

    I definitely understand why you didn't get it but, through the context of the song, the thing that they've "lost" is the "memories". Never let line breaks influence your interpretation.
    Hurt by the thorns that I let grew inside
    My heart is bleeding of the lost memories
    Last edited by AzureDark; 10-01-2014 at 08:28 AM.

    ...so that you know where you can find me

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