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Thread: Yep, this just happened ...

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  1. #1
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    Default Yep, this just happened ...

    ... Bacon and ham has been banned from Subway, because it's 'offensive to the Muslim population'.

    ...

    Was told about this at college earlier. Jumped online at lunch, confirmed it.

    https://www.ijreview.com/2014/04/134...muslim-outcry/

    http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-L...d-from-Muslims

    Apparently, the announcement by users on Facebook following the discovery (and disgust) of the ban led one account to receive a message asking the announcement to be removed, as "the message announcing the removal of bacon was offensive."

    ... Seriously.


    I dub this 'bacongate'. Please trend #BaconGate on twitter, and if any Muslims ask you to remove your tweet, tell them 'if they don't like your Twitter, don't read your account'. Seriously, how hard is it to understand the concept of 'If you don't like that Subway sells bacon sandwiches, DON'T EAT AT SUBWAY'?

    Bloody pathetic. :I
    Last edited by Ranshiin; 05-02-2014 at 10:49 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Yep, this just happened ...

    Somehow I feel a non-muslim is behind all of this... Most Islamic followers that I know are chill about pork as much as the Jews I know. They may not like ham or bacon, but they won't stop anyone else from having it. Chicken Teriyaki is pretty good too. Still, if the majority of the local population is (meaning the majority of their customers are) Jewish and/or Muslim, then it makes sense to get with them and serve Halal or Kosher foods.
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  3. #3
    how 2 u sociul plz? Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yep, this just happened ...

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathBlade/13.666 View Post
    Somehow I feel a non-muslim is behind all of this... Most Islamic followers that I know are chill about pork as much as the Jews I know. They may not like ham or bacon, but they won't stop anyone else from having it. Chicken Teriyaki is pretty good too. Still, if the majority of the local population is (meaning the majority of their customers are) Jewish and/or Muslim, then it makes sense to get with them and serve Halal or Kosher foods.
    You don't know this country, mate. If you ever come over here I can guarantee you'd be disgusted by how much a lot of immigrants throw their cultural and religious laws and rules around in the art of racism.

    And that even said, I've never seen a Muslim in our Subway, ever. It's always full of hipsters and stoners.
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    Default Re: Yep, this just happened ...

    So then why would a muslim even care, if they are never there anyways? Unless Subway is trying to make an effort to bring in the muslim population as customers and someone is making a crackpot excuse for the change other than (We just want more customers).
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yep, this just happened ...

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathBlade/13.666 View Post
    So then why would a muslim even care, if they are never there anyways? Unless Subway is trying to make an effort to bring in the muslim population as customers and someone is making a crackpot excuse for the change other than (We just want more customers).
    Because it offends them. Seriously, that's the reason. Welcome to Feels before Reals: The reality of catering to the perpetually offended.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Yep, this just happened ...

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathBlade/13.666 View Post
    Bacon and ham has been banned from Subway, because it's 'offensive to the Muslim population'.
    At first I didn't believe it, until I noticed that this is happening in Englandistan, where it kinda makes sense.

    ---------- Post added at 01:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:07 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathBlade/13.666 View Post
    Somehow I feel a non-muslim is behind all of this... Most Islamic followers that I know are chill about pork as much as the Jews I know. They may not like ham or bacon, but they won't stop anyone else from having it.
    Those are people who made the decision to move to the US (or were raised by people who made such a decision). I've never met an Iranian muslim that I didn't like. But I don't imagine that they're representative of who controls that country now. Large imigrant populations who moved because of neccessity or money instead of wanting to be a part of the culture they're moving to are a different situation. And it sounds like things are rather different in England than they are here.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Yep, this just happened ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anoleis View Post
    Because it offends them. Seriously, that's the reason. Welcome to Feels before Reals: The reality of catering to the perpetually offended.
    That is still just stupid, and the muslims I know would be more offended by the pure catering than anything else. If Subway had said, "We're offering choices that are under halal guideline to be more open to our growing Islamic population", then it'd be ok. But no, it's "We're giving in because a small group of people that don't even purchase here is mad." For Allah's sake, they have chicken, beef, turkey, and veggie options available if you don't like, want, or can't have pork.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
    At first I didn't believe it, until I noticed that this is happening in Englandistan, where it kinda makes sense.

    ---------- Post added at 01:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:07 PM ----------



    Those are people who made the decision to move to the US (or were raised by people who made such a decision). I've never met an Iranian muslim that I didn't like. But I don't imagine that they're representative of who controls that country now. Large imigrant populations who moved because of neccessity or money instead of wanting to be a part of the culture they're moving to are a different situation. And it sounds like things are rather different in England than they are here.
    Guess what, they're still immigrants moving in and should be respectful of those that were already there first. (As an American, I do try to be respectful of America's Native Cultures.) There's still no reason for them to pitch a fit. All and all, I still think it's some retard hipster (or a group) activist thinking that he's doing the right thing that started this crap. I get that it's England and not the U.S., but seriously most of our attitude about things came from England; it shouldn't make that much of a difference.
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    Default Re: Yep, this just happened ...

    That is really, really gay. Bacon and ham 4 life.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis has a reputation beyond repute Anoleis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yep, this just happened ...

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathBlade/13.666 View Post
    That is still just stupid, and the muslims I know would be more offended by the pure catering than anything else.
    The muslims you know are obviously not the ones complaining or models of how all muslims behave.
    Last edited by Anoleis; 05-02-2014 at 01:54 PM.

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    Default Re: Yep, this just happened ...

    the only way this reaction would have been understandable would be if Muslims were being forced to order bacon and ham when they ate at subway. i mean, Muslims know how to NOT order bacon and ham, is Subway really preventing any harm from being done? and were Muslims really being "offended" because Subway was serving non-Kosher foods? i don't know any Muslims personally, but i would think they're just like anyone else and don't wish to impose their ideology or theology on the masses.

    Subway pussied out is all.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Yep, this just happened ...

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathBlade/13.666 View Post
    That is still just stupid, and the muslims I know would be more offended by the pure catering than anything else.
    It's great that you're starting from such a group of people. But I think you need to expand your knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by horrendous View Post
    , but i would think they're just like anyone else and don't wish to impose their ideology or theology on the masses.
    Forget Muslims. Where did you get the idea that most people don't wish to impose their ideology or theology? I'm hoping that's sarcasm and you just forgot to add the smiley.

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    Default Re: Yep, this just happened ...

    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
    Forget Muslims. Where did you get the idea that most people don't wish to impose their ideology or theology? I'm hoping that's sarcasm and you just forgot to add the smiley.
    i guess i was just giving people the benefit of the doubt. the people i know are really chill about their theologies, and i personally have nothing to impose.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Yep, this just happened ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anoleis View Post
    The muslims you know are obviously not the ones complaining or models of how all muslims behave.
    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
    It's great that you're starting from such a group of people. But I think you need to expand your knowledge.
    That is a good point, but still. If this were truly an issue with most muslims, then where are the rest in complaining about it in other countries? In Middle Eastern and North African countries, I can understand not having any complaints due to most to all restaurants already being under Halal guidelines due to the countries being majorly Islamic. I could even understand in some others like the Philippines with a large distaste for muslims and their religious culture (mostly due to terrorist/terroristic attacks) not having any complaints about Halal fast food restaurants. But in England? Why not France and Spain too with their growing muslim populations? Now there is still the argument of a small group of muslims having the problem, but I'm sure with the growing trend of immigration and possible backlashes from that; would trying to get one fast food chain to serve Halal foods be really worth it? I'm sure there's been a handful of immigrants that have wanted to start a restaurant to enter the country, so why not fill the local and religious niche? Are they any petitions or pushes to get other restaurants or fast food joints to serve Halal, or has it just been Subway and Subway only?


    Also, @sunnyside , you are right about the chicken and Halal preparations, but if memory serves me correctly Halal laws are similar to Kosher laws, in which there is a provision to allow followers of such to freely (yet smartly) eat foods if Halal/Kosher food is not available. And the Islamic population does have the choice to prepare and cook their meals at home instead of eating out at Subway, as well as the fore mentioned idea of eating at another place that serves Halal food.


    So @Ranshiin , Has there been any push on other food chains, or just Subway only?
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  14. #14
    how 2 u sociul plz? Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yep, this just happened ...

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathBlade/13.666 View Post
    So @Ranshiin , Has there been any push on other food chains, or just Subway only?
    So far, no, but now there's conspiracy theories about a 'Muslim Brotherhood' flying all over the place and of course, people jibing at Cameron telling him he needs to get some balls and do what France does - aka "Man up and tell them what to do and to like it or lump it."

    I've not been into town yet.

    ... This DOES explain though why that food cart (that was really popular) suddenly disappeared. Because they sold bacon. Someone needs to whack an extractor fan on a frying pan, I swear.



    And FWIW all the Muslims around here are stuck-up, ignorant little bastards. You never see them try to get involved in anything. They don't try to do what everyone else does - I see them wandering around the wrong way in Aldi and they never end up buying anything there anyway. They don't even bother to learn our language half the time; I've had to speak with a lot of them and some of them wouldn't even try to speak English to me.

    They're all quite happy to stuff their laws and religion down our throats but won't accept ours; this whole bacongate scandal just proves it. "We want your bacon banned because we don't like it. What's that, you don't agree? RACISTS!"

    Personally, I'm done trying to be respectful. Monday's going to be fun - I'm taking my Blind cane with me and I'm going to make some damn good use with it.
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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Yep, this just happened ...

    Wut..
    I don't care what country or religion you're in. You can't say no to dat bacon, yo.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Yep, this just happened ...

    How can you say no to bacon? Bacon is the food from the gods.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Meteorkeeper has a reputation beyond repute Meteorkeeper has a reputation beyond repute Meteorkeeper has a reputation beyond repute Meteorkeeper has a reputation beyond repute Meteorkeeper has a reputation beyond repute Meteorkeeper has a reputation beyond repute Meteorkeeper has a reputation beyond repute Meteorkeeper has a reputation beyond repute Meteorkeeper has a reputation beyond repute Meteorkeeper has a reputation beyond repute Meteorkeeper has a reputation beyond repute Meteorkeeper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yep, this just happened ...

    NOOOO you take my bacon from me over my dead body!!!
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Yep, this just happened ...

    They're just mad they want all that delicious bacon and cant have any

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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Yep, this just happened ...

    Ran Ran. Move to the US.

    We still have bacon!
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  20. #20
    Senior Member sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yep, this just happened ...

    You know, it occurs to me that Halal is about more than just not having pork. It also has to do with how animals are killed and prepared. So a Muslim trying to eat Halal couldn't eat the chicken or whatever at a "normal" subway.

    So this could simply be an economic choice that is just reflective of changing demographics in the UK, and isn't any more noteworthy than a fish and chips joint being replaced by a Tandoori place. Subways figures they'll gain Muslim business in areas with high Muslim populations, and what do most people care if "Allahu Akbar" is said a few times by a Muslim and the chicken gets killed by its throat being cut instead of some other method? I'd also expect Subway to try and float the idea that "Turkey bacon" is healthier.
    Last edited by sunnyside; 05-02-2014 at 10:30 PM.

  21. #21
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yep, this just happened ...

    Do I have to do this? Do I HAVE to do this? Is there a punchline somewhere? Is this a joke? Must I tear this apart? Okay, everybody calm down go I can explain a few issues here...

    First of all, while both of Ranshiin's links talk about the same thing, which grant them some credibility, one common thing erases all credibility: both links cite The Daily Mail as the source. The story in question from that site can be found here, along with a story about Ben Affleck counting cards and Robert Pattinson being caught with a "mystery blond" and a few "Tupac is not dead!!" theories. In case it hasn't been made clear, The Daily Mail is a tabloid newspaper and the vast majority of their stories need to be taken with a grain of salt or ignored outright.

    So, is what they are saying true? Has Subway banned pork products from some of their resturants? Well, there is a grain of truth to that...one that was found with a 5 second Google search.

    Apparantly, some Subways have indeed banned pork products from their stores in order to cater to the growing the Muslim community. But this was a voluntary effort and one that has been going on since 2007. Out of 1,500 Subways in the UK and Ireland, only about 200 Subways are halal and they are clearly marked; always have been. The signs are posted on the menu panels, the nutritional info brochures, and even on the front of the store itself. This store has three halal signs on the front alone.



    The insinuation being made by those links and The Daily Mail is that this is a sudden decision made by Subway under pressure versus a growing program (one that has been going on for for 7 years) that they did on their own.

    So Subway hasn't banned your precious bacon. They are not being pressured. They didn't "puss" out. So we can put our racist theories and anecdotes away now.
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  22. #22
    Senior Member sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside has a reputation beyond repute sunnyside's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yep, this just happened ...

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathBlade/13.666 View Post
    Are they any petitions or pushes to get other restaurants or fast food joints to serve Halal, or has it just been Subway and Subway only?
    Poking around a number of US restaurants have Halal options. But aparently it's tricky.
    http://www.cnbc.com/id/100842857

    And the Islamic population does have the choice to prepare and cook their meals at home instead of eating out at Subway, as well as the fore mentioned idea of eating at another place that serves Halal food.
    True, but restaurants want you to buy at THEIR place.

    I'm increasingly thinking this is just a changing demographics thing and a "strong demand" is simply in the sense of "we want to give you our money if you'd make stuff we can eat" vs some kind of threatening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranshiin View Post
    Someone needs to whack an extractor fan on a frying pan, I swear.

    Monday's going to be fun - I'm taking my Blind cane with me and I'm going to make some damn good use with it.
    ??????????

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    So we can put our racist theories and anecdotes away now.
    Actually the first thing I did was poke around more reputable sources to see if the story had a bases, which, as you found, it does. There is the matter of putting a "twist" on it I suppose.

    Though, while I suspect you're right about this being subways idea as a way to make more money, why are you calling this a racist thing?

  23. #23
    Great Witch of Britannia wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90 has a reputation beyond repute wolfgirl90's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yep, this just happened ...

    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
    Though, while I suspect you're right about this being subways idea as a way to make more money, why are you calling this a racist thing?
    I'm not. I am merely pointing out that this whole discussion about Muslims probably wouldn't have happened if facts were looked up first. I was mainly pointing at Ranshiin when I said that because his previous post was about how this "bacongate" incident "proves" how "[Muslims are] all quite happy to stuff their laws and religion down our throats but won't accept ours."

    In the end, Subway wasn't forced to do anything by anybody, so this "proves" nothing about Muslims or anybody.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wio View Post
    You shouldn't take their word alone on anything, but to be honest I don't think you should take The Guardian on their word alone either.
    I don't trust any single source; hence why I always look things up first. Two separate sources linking to one source that already has a slant is immediately suspicious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wio View Post
    In the best case scenario (i.e. most passive and peaceful), those branches are located in parts of the UK where the Islamic population has completely taken over to the point that serving pork is not profitable. Even in this case it is important to make note of how Islamic culture is influencing parts of the UK culture. It has cultural significance.
    I am aware that it is. Profitability versus protest is precisely what lead Subway to start their halal program in the first place. There is a large Muslim population in the neighborhood. They don't want to eat at that restaurant because it serves pork and non-halal meats. Restaurant loses money. Restaurant switches to halal meats to gain new customers. The issue is...what now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wio View Post
    Sure, you can continue to throw "racism" at people for simply pointing at this elephant, and you will successfully silence a lot of people by doing so. The thing is, not all of them will remained silenced and instead will be pushed from rational concern to an irrational hatred.
    As I pointed out earlier, the racist parts were coming from Ranshiin's previous post. It wasn't about the changes in culture but jabs at an entire people, which, ya know, is quite racist, justified or not. A culture might be growing around you, but if businesses decide to cater to the new culture while turning away from other people in order to make a shilling, then you can blame good old fashioned capitalism for that.

    And again, the only insinuation being made here, from The Daily Mail and from the name of the thread itself (I never said that there was anything more), is that this is in anyway new, that this is a sudden decision born out of the ether when it is not or that this is happening at all Subways when it is not. This has been going on for over half a decade so either people haven't caught on or there is something going on that warrants attention.

    But on its own, this is nothing that should really matter to anybody. It is 13% of Subways where you can't a Meatball Marinara sub...well, one made of pork. Is this the start of a cultural revolution? Where our meatballs are made of turkey? EGADS!!
    This is my war face.

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  24. #24
    how 2 u sociul plz? Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin has a reputation beyond repute Ranshiin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yep, this just happened ...

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    But on its own, this is nothing that should really matter to anybody. It is 13% of Subways where you can't a Meatball Marinara sub...well, one made of pork.
    I can name plenty of people that are pissed off by this.

     
    You're also somewhat missing the point that whilst, yes, this is a minor problem that could be ignored, that's exactly what the people that caused this whole issue in the first place want you to do. They expect you to back down and to be 'reasonable' about it - but as I said it's one 'minor' problem ... that's adding up with dozens of other minor problems coming towards the answer of people taking advantage of the fear of being accused of cultural or racial discrimination to get what they want, as opposed to following the rules and traditions of the country that they have moved to.



    Please spare me a two-page-long argument on this because no offense to you - but you're not English. You might think that doesn't mean anything but you don't live in this country and you don't know what things like this represent. I'm making a big deal out of it because it's another example of Muslims immigrating to my country, and telling me what to do because it offends them. Meanwhile, if I tell them what to do because they offend me, I'm immediately a racist.

    That's the whole point of this. Our government and councils (and in this case our food chains) are so feeble and scared of doing anything remotely offensive that they're offending their most important citizens by trying to stay as 'politically correct' as possible - the citizens that were born, raised and have always lived in this country. The citizens that are actually British.

    As I said I don't want to start coming across as being racist but again, it's only 200 stores, right? What's to stop them rallying to ban bacon from the other 1,300 stores? Or from using this as a sign that they can get away with it and moving on to bigger things? Burger King, Greggs, even KFC? And above all things, our local Subway really did -not- need this sort of publicity. Our town center is a ghost town as it is; it's literally becoming more and more populated by Polish clubs and halal-only kebab shops.


    Whether the source can be trusted or not, the fact is that I can thoroughly confirm that they have done this, and I did. This is a real thing. How about I move to Virginia and start lobbying to have all the road-signs changed to the ones we use in Britain because I find your road signs and metrics offensive to my culture? That's absolutely absurd and ridiculous and you're going to laugh at me for even suggesting that but this whole bacon ban debacle is the same sort of ridiculous that this country, with its politically-correct government of shame, has let people that aren't even truly British get away with.



    Feel free to dislike/neg me if you think I'm wrong on all this, I honestly don't care. Though I'm using spoilers because I'm aware this has gotten a very borderline subject.

    I have a cold so I'm going back to bed, probably, after I've made a bacon sandwich. At least the butchers' haven't been banned for being offensive yet.
    Last edited by Ranshiin; 05-04-2014 at 07:07 AM.
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  25. #25
    Senior Member Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio has a reputation beyond repute Wio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yep, this just happened ...

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    As I pointed out earlier, the racist parts were coming from Ranshiin's previous post. It wasn't about the changes in culture but jabs at an entire people, which, ya know, is quite racist, justified or not.
    Let's be clear about one thing at the very least. This has everything to do about culture and race is an incidental part of it. The best way of identifying the culture at play here is with the words "Islam" and "Muslim", but if you have some other word you think is appropriate you are free to suggest one. If you are going to interpret Islam and Muslim as a reference to the race of the plurality of Muslim UK immigrants, then you are confusing the issue.

    So while most people know better than to criticize race, it is perfectly reasonable to criticize a culture. A culture is a collection of ideas shared by a group of people. Ideas can be good and bad. Even by simply criticizing some idea on its own, you are inadvertently criticizing any culture which harbors that idea. Which isn't to say that Islamic culture is bad, but that criticizing it is a perfectly rational thing to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    A culture might be growing around you, but if businesses decide to cater to the new culture while turning away from other people in order to make a shilling, then you can blame good old fashioned capitalism for that.
    Capitalism is doing exactly what it should be doing here. If the culture changes, the businesses should accommodate that change.

    The problem is the nature of the cultural change. It would be one thing if there was some UK counter culture that decided that pigs make cool pets, and thus eating pork no longer sat well with them. However these changes are happening completely independently of native UK culture, at the expense of native UK culture, due to an influx of immigrants that aren't naturalizing as intended.

    First generation immigrants are typically a lost cause, but this is perfectly fine so long as their children grow up surrounded by a super majority of native children (3rd generation or greater). There is where assimilation really happens, where the native culture absorbs the parts of the new culture that if finds worthwhile, while still maintaining it position as the dominant culture. The only problem is if this assimilation process is undermined by immigrants self segregating into their own communities.

    And the problem here isn't that one culture is bad while the other is good, but that neither culture has been properly exposed to each other. No melting has occurred. This naturally causes resentment between communities, and those who are most justified in feeling resentment are the natives living in areas that are drastically changed by an external culture. I say that because immigrants consent to enter into a new culture while natives have a new cultured forced upon them.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    And again, the only insinuation being made here, from The Daily Mail and from the name of the thread itself (I never said that there was anything more), is that this is in anyway new, that this is a sudden decision born out of the ether when it is not or that this is happening at all Subways when it is not. This has been going on for over half a decade so either people haven't caught on or there is something going on that warrants attention.
    Look, if someone said half a decade ago that there would be Halal Subways, they would be swarmed by oikophobes accusing them of xenophobia, racism, paranoia and religious intolerance. This is at the very least vindication for people who have had concerns about immigration.

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