Why does the school make kids read crappy books?

[The Butcher]

I want to know.

If it's to learn something,I'm not learning anything.
If it's to entertain,I feel like I'll die of boredom from those books.
If it's to get kids reading,it is not working at all.
If it's to teach morals,I think I want to make my own morals,and not base them off a book.

The books they read are just so boring. The plot is horrible,it's like a person with a one tracked mind wrote those books. The characters....god their characters are horrible.
Last time I checked,reading is for entertainment,not meant to take a knife and start mutilating the book because you wish it never existed. Things like A Doll's House,Things Fall Apart,Bronx Masquerade,and many more cannot compare to things like Cell,The Concrete Blonde,Eye of The Storm,Grave Peril and also many more.

Basically,I rage at the books they make us read :banghead:.

What are your opinons on the schools?

[Diocletian]

They made me read the Outsiders. I'm cool with that book so I disagree with your point.

[Furore]

Bring your own books to read.
Half the time they're also stupid enough to leave enough clues in the questions about the book that you can make an educated guess and get it right.
Or bring a portable gaming device, mute it, prop a book up in front of you and you have something like classical goomba stomping which is much more mentally stimulating to do!

[GrimStride™]

I don't think they are doing it with the purpose of making us learn something specific and they certainly aren't doing it to entertain us.As kids grow they need stimulation and the teacher's job is to encourage the thinking process by making us use our heads and reading is a very important part of that.They can't let us make the decision because lets face it,if it was up to us students,to decide whether or not to read anything at all in school,most wouldn't choose anything.Reading,unlike TV is an active mental process,it gives us a glimpse into other cultures and places,improves concentration,it makes us use our imagination and because of that they make us read what they think will do us the most good.Books are so powerful they can corrupt the developing mind as some might say so they have be quite picky.That's why mandatory reading material in schools is quite different in areas with different religious and moral beliefs.Unfortunately these limitations lead to the inability to accommodate every one's tastes,anywhere.In literature class here,they make us read what they consider to be the best works of literature.Some of it is actually interesting but most isn't..It's the same everywhere

[Lady_Baneheart_Of_Blades]

I quite liked the books I read, like the south african folklore stories, also Love,david, District 6, scripts, circles in a forest and vaselientjie. Those were good books.

[ghostthegreat]

If you were only to read books you like, how would you know what else is out there? If you were only to eat Italian food, how would you know if you liked Chinese food or maybe even just one dish of Chinese food? Some of the most enriching experiences you can get are from reading books that you don't think you will like. And it's fine not to like them! But along the way, you will learn about different writers, styles, and genres. You might even stumble across something you thought you would never like, but find out that you do. Even if you absolutely hate, and I mean HATE (I hate Things Fall Apart, I don't care about your damn yams, shut up about your damn yams already) you should be able to find at least one thing in the book that you can take with you, either a message, a meaning, or even just a half way cool scene.

[The Butcher]

Bring your own books to read.
Half the time they're also stupid enough to leave enough clues in the questions about the book that you can make an educated guess and get it right.
Or bring a portable gaming device, mute it, prop a book up in front of you and you have something like classical goomba stomping which is much more mentally stimulating to do!I always bring my books to read in my free time,but I'm not the kind of person who wants to get in trouble while being forced to read some crappy play or novel.


If you were only to read books you like, how would you know what else is out there? If you were only to eat Italian food, how would you know if you liked Chinese food or maybe even just one dish of Chinese food? Some of the most enriching experiences you can get are from reading books that you don't think you will like. And it's fine not to like them! But along the way, you will learn about different writers, styles, and genres. You might even stumble across something you thought you would never like, but find out that you do. Even if you absolutely hate, and I mean HATE (I hate Things Fall Apart, I don't care about your damn yams, shut up about your damn yams already) you should be able to find at least one thing in the book that you can take with you, either a message, a meaning, or even just a half way cool scene.
I try all different genres,even freaking romance sometimes(You can see that I will even torture myself to try something). I understood plays like Romeo & Juliet,fairly easy,while I could barely understand Thomas Harris' Red Dragon. I got to a high level of reading through the books I read,not the school's books, which I could even have understood back when I was in 6th grade.

[Furore]

It could be worse.
My class in highschool had 'visual texts' to study as well, one of which was Billy Elliot. I dislike that movie considerably so watching it and several key scenes several times wasn't on my list of things I liked about school. Even my gameboy couldn't salvage those lessons thanks to how high the volume was...

Also what is up with those centuries old texts they often use? Thou doth nay likely speaketh like that IRL.

[ghostthegreat]

I always bring my books to read in my free time,but I'm not the kind of person who wants to get in trouble while being forced to read some crappy play or novel.


I try all different genres,even freaking romance sometimes(You can see that will even torture myself to try something). I understood plays like Romeo & Juliet,fairly easy,while I could barely understand Thomas Harris' Red Dragon. I got to a high level of reading through the books I read,not the school's books, which I could even have understood back when I was in 6th grade.

If you are already reading books you don't like to explore different genres, then that's great! But, most (ie 99%) of students will not. So, books ranging from Grapes of Wrath to Things Fall Apart to Shakespeare are thrown in the curriculum to give these students an idea of what is out there. Does it make sense to have authors like these grouped together? Not a chance. However, in High School, they are mostly trying to give you an overview of literary works. Once you reach the collegiate level, you'll find more specific classes (a whole class for Shakespeare!) and usually the books are a much more enjoyable read as well. And as for specific books like Red Dragon(have never read this myself), sometimes they just pick really weird books, depends on the teacher sometimes too.

[GameGeeks]

The worst book I've had to read for school is Sophie's World and that was a living nightmare to have to read. And, to add insult in injury, I had to pay for the blasted book. School has introduced me to some great books though, like That was Then This is Now and 1984.

[Lady_Baneheart_Of_Blades]

We could choose what sort of twelve books to read in highschool to be graded on.

[-Ro-]

They didn't let us choose what books to read except one time, when I read the Fellowship of the Ring. I hated nearly all the books they made us read, especially Lord of the Flies... *ugh*. Lucky for me I can barely remember what any of the books I read were about. I didn't get anything out of them except maybe how to write better essays. I would rather have more freedom and still probably learn that way than read stuff I'm not interested in.

[The Butcher]

They didn't let us choose what books to read except one time, when I read the Fellowship of the Ring. I hated nearly all the books they made us read, especially Lord of the Flies... *ugh*. Lucky for me I can barely remember what any of the books I read were about. I didn't get anything out of them except maybe how to write better essays. I would rather have more freedom and still probably learn that way than read stuff I'm not interested in.You lucky.

I can't erase what I have read in school.

[Light Buster]

I think the point of it is for you to learn something. I never liked it but I learned something from them.

[Wio]

They make you read books because most kids wouldn't read otherwise. They have everyone read a certain book so that the class can discuss themes of the book. They don't want to waste time looking for book that the students like and is appropriate for class, so the teacher chooses from a pre-approved list.

I don't see how this is a difficult concept to understand. What do you expect, exactly? If you expect that their is some book that the entire class is unanimously enjoy, then you ask for the near impossible.

[GameGeeks]

Not really, I took a mythology class and everyone enjoyed the books in that class. I must be odd since there was rarely a book I hated that I was made to read. In fact the only one that comes to mine is Sophie's World and as far as I was made to read it was all just her reading letters ever single chapter for the whole chapter. I like philosophy but that book just drawled on and on.

[The Butcher]

They make you read books because most kids wouldn't read otherwise. They have everyone read a certain book so that the class can discuss themes of the book. They don't want to waste time looking for book that the students like and is appropriate for class, so the teacher chooses from a pre-approved list.

I don't see how this is a difficult concept to understand. What do you expect, exactly? If you expect that their is some book that the entire class is unanimously enjoy, then you ask for the near impossible.
I know not everyone will like the same thing,but something like Velocity,or Intensity are better than the books they read now.

[Anoleis]

One reason they give you books they know you probably won't like is because if they let everybody choose for themselves 9 out of 10 kids would choose books that have no literary value (i.e. Twilight)
Not to mention they can't write tests up for 30 different books. The only real solution is to finish the assigned book and then read something you enjoy.

[Archaic Devices]

Eh, I'm generally ok with the books they make us read -cough- Outsiders -cough- But the boring ones like Night and Of Mice and Men just couldn't keep my interest at all. And some had such confusing words you needed a dictionary next to you at all times (Les Miserables). I think there should be a list of books (at least 20) and then the students get to pick which books to read.

[The_Angry_Princess]

Because they need to make their mine smarter with boring books and no bad language

[maskedrose]

Just grin and deal with it until you get to college. Public school is such BS anyway.

[brolyx74]

The only good book I've read because of school was 1984. All of the others sucked. I feel like the books they have us read that are so called "classics" should be replaced with either more current selections, orlet us pick our own books. The Picture of Dorian Gray was horrible. Macbeth was ok, but overall, it gets a C-. Don't get me started on the Catcher in the Rye. I used to be a great reader, but then I stopped because school ruined reading for me. If it wasn't for light novels and manga, I probably never would have started reading for fun again.

[Psyco_Panda]

I figure its to torture us sometimes. Lol

[QueerFeminist16]

I'd say it depends heavily on the teacher: even the seemingly dullest of books can come alive, if a teacher can find some themes with which we (the students) can relate - and is passionate about conveying it to us. This, however, takes a keen mind, a willingness to connect with one's students, some creative freedom in the classroom (not having to 'teach to the test'), and plenty of rest the night before - stuff that many of the U.S's overwhelmed, underpaid teachers are thoroughly lacking.

[Capernicus]

OP: You need to get a grip. I have been made to read dozens of books that, at the time, I seriously despised to read. Now, later looking back, I see that they were all books that I learned something from, and grew personally as a writer. You learn tone, technique, style, culture, empathy, etc etc from such books. So if YOU'RE not learning from the books, I have to say that you're doing it wrong. Yeah, no one likes being made to read something, but you HAVE to do it so, if nothing else, you may as well buckle down and try to enjoy it. No reason to be dead set on hating it, it just makes the experience worse for you. Doesn't hurt the teacher or anyone else one bit. So stop QQing and do your damn assignments.

The only reason other people are agreeing with you and complaining is because they are all ungrateful teenagers like you, and they can't see the value in the reading. Take from someone whose older and has gone through all that: you will get something out of it.

[Furore]

The only reason other people are agreeing with you and complaining is because they are all ungrateful teenagers like you, and they can't see the value in the reading. Take from someone whose older and has gone through all that: you will get something out of it.

I work full time and still haven't found any decent use for Shakespeare.
I just hate having my time wasted when if not in a forced educational setting I could pursue things that are actually beneficial to me and wouldn't be surprised if any of these bright young sparks feel the same way.

[Capernicus]

I just hate having my time wasted when if not in a forced educational setting I could pursue things that are actually beneficial to me and wouldn't be surprised if any of these bright young sparks feel the same way.

That might be true for you, but I highly doubt the same is true for others.

[brolyx74]

That might be true for you, but I highly doubt the same is true for others.

This is kinda true for me too. After moving and having to go to a new school for sophmore year, they made me take a few classes I had already taken because they were required and I didn't take them there. And I didn't receive credits for a few other classes because I took them in 8th grade. Even though they were high school level classes that I got credit for at my old school, they wouldn't give me the credit. I tried to fight this, because there are so many other classes I could have taken instead of these crappy ones again, like Intro to physical science and health. I wanted to take some more business classes. Also, why wold reading these bad books benefit us in real life if we don't plan on becoming writers. Most people don't become writers, so you other point in your previous point is moot. Also, for me anyway, English has always been my worst subject, and is currently the only bad grade I've ever gotten. I got a B in it, though it should have been a B+. The teachers strange grading caused the grade to fall short by about a point. If it wasn't for that class, I'd have a perfect GPA. The only reading I like is manga and light novels. Maybe if we got to read more stuff like this, not manga, but the light novels, then people wouldn't hate english so much. The things they have us read are usually God awful The only books I ever tolerated, and the last one in this example I liked, were The Great Gatsby, To Kill A Mockingbird, and 1984.

[Hanamaru Kunikida]

It's not the books that are stupid, it's the student who are stupid and don't understand the content of the book.
EDIT: Bah, on second though---Some books I have to read were really, really ridiculous.

@Yoko: Books enhances your vocabulary, which makes you an eloquent individual. Books also enhances your reading comprehension, and the more books you read, if they are advance, the more it develops.

You have to read it anyways, might as well do it, right? It will help you in the end in the near future.

[Princely Dreaming Doll]

I only ever hated the books in school because they were not challenging or stimulating in an intellectual way. I found myself always and constantly bored by them. It was because I was the student in the middle not genius, but above average. I always got good scores on my test, always did well on my homework, and always did well on my reading comprehension books.
I discovered Edgar Allan Poe in 3rd grade and was reading Goosebumps, Harry Potter, and the "young adult" readers from 1st grade. So, by the time I hit middle school I was at a high school reading level. And when I got to high school I was at a college level reading level.
In elementary I was at a middle school reading level. The only reason I never liked the books because it didn't challenge me.

[Capernicus]

This is kinda true for me too. After moving and having to go to a new school for sophmore year, they made me take a few classes I had already taken because they were required and I didn't take them there. And I didn't receive credits for a few other classes because I took them in 8th grade. Even though they were high school level classes that I got credit for at my old school, they wouldn't give me the credit. I tried to fight this, because there are so many other classes I could have taken instead of these crappy ones again, like Intro to physical science and health. I wanted to take some more business classes.

Not to interrupt you while you tell me your life story, but... what does this have to do with required reading in schools?


Also, why wold reading these bad books benefit us in real life if we don't plan on becoming writers. Most people don't become writers, so you other point in your previous point is moot.

No, it's not. Literacy is a life skill that transfers over across all subjects. You know, you have to read science books, write articles for science journals, etc etc.


Also, for me anyway, English has always been my worst subject, and is currently the only bad grade I've ever gotten. I got a B in it, though it should have been a B+. The teachers strange grading caused the grade to fall short by about a point. If it wasn't for that class, I'd have a perfect GPA.

Oh, I see I didn't interrupt you telling your life story.


The only reading I like is manga and light novels. Maybe if we got to read more stuff like this, not manga, but the light novels, then people wouldn't hate english so much.

... reading manga does NOT count. 90% of them are pictures. Here, let me fix it for you


The only pretty shiny pictures I like is manga

Edit: Hey Pandemic Doll/Rem Nightfall, I was at a college reading level as a high school freshman too, you don't see me bragging about reading Harry Potter in first grade.

[brolyx74]

I know manga doesn't count, that's why I specified saying not manga. The rest of my rant is pertinet to the discussion because it shows that school makes us do things that don't matter that end up taking away from the intellectual experience of school. Also, reading a text book or article is very different from reading a novel. Also, I am quite good at writing essays and articles, despite not being very well read. That goes to show that reading is not necessary to become a good writer. Oh and to get back to the manga; if it wasn't for manga, I still wouldn't be reading anything. Manga renewed my faith in actually reading for pleasure, which had previously been destroyed by the books forced upon me by the school system.

[Hanamaru Kunikida]

98.1% of the content that school makes you learn does and will matter later on in your life, it's very stupid on your behalf to say so.

And not their not, or at least how you make it seem to be. All pieces of literature aren't that different, they all provide information of any shape or kind.

Yoko, really, stop being a brat.

[Capernicus]

Nah nah, let him be a brat. This is entertaining to see. He's losing out and has no one to blame but himself. I shall enjoy ordering a Big Mac from him someday.

[Princely Dreaming Doll]

Edit: Hey Pandemic Doll/Rem Nightfall, I was at a college reading level as a high school freshman too, you don't see me bragging about reading Harry Potter in first grade.

I was clearly trying to state my experience, not to brag.

[Hanamaru Kunikida]

Nah nah, let him be a brat. This is entertaining to see. He's losing out and has no one to blame but himself. I shall enjoy ordering a Big Mac from him someday.

You just made my day.

[Capernicus]

I was clearly trying to state my experience, not to brag.

Clearly, by going on and on about it for nearly a paragraph you are bragging. By the way, are you now acknowledging that you are Pandemic Doll/Rem Nightfall?

[Princely Dreaming Doll]

Clearly, by going on and on about it for nearly a paragraph you are bragging. By the way, are you now acknowledging that you are Pandemic Doll/Rem Nightfall?

I hadn't realized that factor. Next time I will keep it short. I am very sorry, what I had intended was not to brag. I promise to fix that for next time, thank you for the advice. I'll use it next time.

This is my account. I have had since it 2006. I was Fallen Baby Doll, changed my name to Pandemic Doll. And now I have a name for 2010...Princely Dreaming Doll. :) Need a name for the years. I will be honest I have done some terrible things in my life. And I regret every single one of them, now that my mind has been cleared. I am sorry for all that I have done and all that I have ruined. But I'll do my best. I want to be a better person.

[Hanamaru Kunikida]

Bah, you don't need to be that polite about it..."Very, very, very sorry"? Seriously? You don't have to put that much emphasis on your apology.

[Princely Dreaming Doll]

Bah, you don't need to be that polite about it..."Very, very, very sorry"? Seriously? You don't have to put that much emphasis on your apology.

I just feel I owe certain people an apology. I owe them an apology on a large scale. I have to repent.

[BoldMushroom]

Also, why wold reading these bad books benefit us in real life if we don't plan on becoming writers.
Students take a variety of subjects in high school to help them figure out what they want to do once they're done with school. If you know, good for you; not everyone does. I didn't. Besides, everyone needs a well-rounded education - everyone needs to know how to read and write (comprehensively and critically - not just knowing the words); everyone needs to know how to do basic math (and not just + - × ÷); everyone needs an understanding of how our government works, and how the nation has gotten the way it is; and if you think you don't need an understanding of the sciences, maybe you should look up why mixing ammonia and bleach is a bad thing.

I'm currently in college to become an English teacher. I'm also an avid writer - and while I don't refer back to my copies of Lord of the Flies or Of Mice and Men for symbolism (in fact, those are two of the books I enjoyed reading the least for English classes), they still helped me understand the concepts of symbolism, allegory, metaphor, and thematic illustration. Like someone else mentioned earlier - what makes a work engaging is the passion the teacher or professor has for the work, and the effort they put in bringing that work to life, highlighting its themes and convincingly tie them to our own lives. Everyone can learn something from a book like Animal Farm, or 1984, or Night, or Inherit the Wind, or The Crucible (boring as I thought that was), or Lord of the Flies.

They might not be the most interesting books to read (though personally, I disagree regarding the first four), but even a boring book can impart some valuable information - just look at any textbook!

[brolyx74]

I'm a brat? Well, let's see. I do the work to the best of my ability even when I hate it. Oh, and I see what you did there. You think I'm gonna be working at McDonalds when I grow up. Funny funny. Apparently in your mind a near flawless GPA and, what I forgot to mention before from my life story, was that I already have college experience and by the end of Senior year, I will have accumulated 8 college credits, effectivelfy shortening my college career by a full semester, isn't good enough to get into college and get a real job. Apparently, in your mind, because I don't particularly enjoy the bulk of the reading they make us do in school, that makes me a brat. Doing the work anyway has nothing to do with it. One question, wouldn't a real brat not do the work at all because they don't like it? I never thought complaining makes someone a brat. If it did, then everyone could be considered a brat.

[Furore]

The Big Mac thing, LOL.
I just finished high school before I started working and can now (and when I first started for that matter) make $2500+ a week fairly easily, some of the Uni educated kids I know can't get a job as practical experience often beats bits of paper in the eyes of some employers.
There are multiple ways to get ahead, and to get condescending just because someone else decided to make it differently is the mark of an egotist.

[Capernicus]

An egotist eh? It is not his dislike for the books that is the real problem, it is his inability to see how they can benefit him and his refusal to admit that they must have some value that leaves me little hope that he will do well. Just because he has college credits now doesn't mean he will do well either, like you said bits of paper mean little. It is about attitude. You know that old adage that life is 10% what happens to you and 90% attitude.

I almost had enough credits to get sophomore standing when I entered college, and I knew friends with similar that did not do well. Hell, I even know someone who double majored and graduated with honors fail to find a job. They were good at doing school an didn't have the right attitude. His is very poor.

I am well aware that there are several ways to be successful in life, and his attitude doesn't leave me much hope that he will find one.

By the way, things are slowly changing so that bits of paper matter more and more, and you need to get with it. People who have jobs are finding that, under new legislation and industry conventions, they need to go back to school to get certain degrees and certificates to keep their jobs. I'm telling you this so that you don't get caught in the same trap.

[brolyx74]

Just to clarify for you Cappers, I do find the meaning in some of the books we read, but my real problem is books from so long ago that they hold little relevence in today's society. The main explainations I've gotten from people about why we read these books is because they are classics. Some books I do not enjoy, but I understand the message of it.I just wish we could read books with the same messages, only that convey it in a less boring or tedious manner.

[Capernicus]

Just to clarify for you Cappers, I do find the meaning in some of the books we read, but my real problem is books from so long ago that they hold little relevence in today's society. The main explainations I've gotten from people about why we read these books is because they are classics. Some books I do not enjoy, but I understand the message of it.I just wish we could read books with the same messages, only that convey it in a less boring or tedious manner.
Then you should have added that to your first post rather than acting like an immature brat.

[brolyx74]

My apologies. I suppose I should have.

[QueerFeminist16]

I know manga doesn't count, that's why I specified saying not manga. The rest of my rant is pertinet to the discussion because it shows that school makes us do things that don't matter that end up taking away from the intellectual experience of school. Also, reading a text book or article is very different from reading a novel. Also, I am quite good at writing essays and articles, despite not being very well read. That goes to show that reading is not necessary to become a good writer. Oh and to get back to the manga; if it wasn't for manga, I still wouldn't be reading anything. Manga renewed my faith in actually reading for pleasure, which had previously been destroyed by the books forced upon me by the school system.

I found nothing ignorant or bratty about YokoKuwabara's comments. Each person has different ways of approaching their learning, and not every person will learn at the same pace; while I do agree there is value to be had from all niches of education, that does not necessarily mean that those who "got ahead" should shove it down everyone else's throats. I'm more than a little disconcerted by the maliciousness of the responses his posts engendered...

I feel where you're coming from; reading textbooks and articles are a different sort of exercise, compared to reading novels, manga and the like - especially since the way it's gone about in many schools, students end up looking upon anything "academic" with less-than-generous sentiment. After the debacle that was (ugh) junior high school, it took me well over a year before I could bring myself to love reading again.


I only ever hated the books in school because they were not challenging or stimulating in an intellectual way. I found myself always and constantly bored by them. It was because I was the student in the middle not genius, but above average. I always got good scores on my test, always did well on my homework, and always did well on my reading comprehension books.
I discovered Edgar Allan Poe in 3rd grade and was reading Goosebumps, Harry Potter, and the "young adult" readers from 1st grade. So, by the time I hit middle school I was at a high school reading level. And when I got to high school I was at a college level reading level.
In elementary I was at a middle school reading level. The only reason I never liked the books because it didn't challenge me.

Princely's statements sounded fair to me; he wasn't explicitly saying, "HAHA, I'M BETTER THAN YOU BY DEFAULT, YOU SUCK LOL" - nor does it seem, to me, that it could be easily implied. I see nothing wrong with detailing our experiences in such a manner; we ought to be proud of what we've done, not constantly ducking for cover from misconceived slights.

[Capernicus]

I found nothing ignorant or bratty about YokoKuwabara's comments. Each person has different ways of approaching their learning, and not every person will learn at the same pace; while I do agree there is value to be had from all niches of education, that does not necessarily mean that those who "got ahead" should shove it down everyone else's throats. I'm more than a little disconcerted by the maliciousness of the responses his posts engendered...

I feel where you're coming from; reading textbooks and articles are a different sort of exercise, compared to reading novels, manga and the like - especially since the way it's gone about in many schools, students end up looking upon anything "academic" with less-than-generous sentiment. After the debacle that was (ugh) junior high school, it took me well over a year before I could bring myself to love reading again.



Princely's statements sounded fair to me; he wasn't explicitly saying, "HAHA, I'M BETTER THAN YOU BY DEFAULT, YOU SUCK LOL" - nor does it seem, to me, that it could be easily implied. I see nothing wrong with detailing our experiences in such a manner; we ought to be proud of what we've done, not constantly ducking for cover from misconceived slights.
Spoken like someone with only six posts. You know nothing of Doll's infamy, nor Yoko's obvious trolling.

[QueerFeminist16]

Spoken like someone with only six posts. You know nothing of Doll's infamy, nor Yoko's obvious trolling.

By the venom with which they get responses, I'll assume this is something more personal than just trolling. Anywho, I've said my peace; I'll stay out of it.

[brolyx74]

I wasn't even trolling, just vocalizing my opinion. I didn't think it came across that way, and neither did anybody who I should the conversation to to get their opinions on the debate, but if you think I was trolling, then I'm sorry, I guess.

[Anime-Prince]

I wasn't even trolling, just vocalizing my opinion. I didn't think it came across that way, and neither did anybody who I should the conversation to to get their opinions on the debate, but if you think I was trolling, then I'm sorry, I guess.

You were just voicing you're opinion. And I didn't once notice you calling them names, just the other way around, so don't feel forced to apologise, YokoKuwabara.

[*Tsuki*]

Warning: This will be long.

Personally, I think that a lot of the books I've read because of school were great books.
When you read them slowly and process what's actually behind it, it's easy to relate to the books.
Now, I know I'm still just a sophomore in high school, but I still have to say some things about this subject.
So, here goes (Wow, don't usually do this.)


All of the others sucked. I feel like the books they have us read that are so called "classics" should be replaced with either more current selections, orlet us pick our own books.
It may just be that a lot of the "classics" you've read were the basis of what started it all for other books that are more recent and you've enjoyed. Have you ever thought of that? And by "replacing" these "classics" with more "recent" books, then won't the true classics slip away eventually until they are forgotten? If teachers merely say, "Oh, Shakespeare was a classic. But, we're never going to read anything about him in all your years of school because people wanted the 'classics' to be replaced with 'more recent books'", then will anyone ever truly know how great Shakespeare was? Maybe you don't find him that great, but what about all the scholars and writers who do look to him, or other authors who wrote other classics, as role models for themselves?
Besides, if English was your worst subject (as you allude to later) then who are you to say what great (or horrible) writers Shakespeare and other classic writers were?


I'd say it depends heavily on the teacher: even the seemingly dullest of books can come alive, if a teacher can find some themes with which we (the students) can relate - and is passionate about conveying it to us. This, however, takes a keen mind, a willingness to connect with one's students, some creative freedom in the classroom (not having to 'teach to the test'), and plenty of rest the night before - stuff that many of the U.S's overwhelmed, underpaid teachers are thoroughly lacking.

I agree completely with this statement. When a teacher is just as disengaged to read something as their students, something is wrong (Though, that feeling may also come from the students who just don't want to read what's assigned and make it a point to prove this each day). Luckily, this has rarely been the case. I've had some of the best English teachers over the past few years and I really enjoyed reading the books just because the teachers were so excited to read it as well.

Seriously. When your teacher is racing around rapidly flapping their arms, then jumping at the white board in order to draw a dragon over a city with little x's in their eyes, then turn to the class quickly and say, "Knocked out dragon over city + Gravity = Noooooooo" (in that way as well), then you are going to enjoy reading that book. Yes, this was The Hobbit.

Though last year, was literally amazing to me. We read through The Importance Of Being Earnest to start off the year (acting it out, of course and without anything being graded on a test) then went to see the play. I lost my ticket and had to sit next to the teacher (lucky me) and I could literally see the sparkle in his eyes. Every time he laughed, it was a feeling of pure, unadulterated bliss. He loved it so much and his eyes were glued to the stage the whole entire time. Seriously, it was amazing. (Also, having him propose to me wasn't that boring, either. Yes. I was the only one being proposed to.)

I could go on for days about that teacher and all the wonderful things he did for the class. There was not one book I did not enjoy reading in his class- even the mythology book he called a bit flat was interesting just in the way he had the class take charge of it all.

Teachers make such a difference in how much you enjoy a book. Seriously.


This is kinda true for me too. After moving and having to go to a new school for sophomore year, they made me take a few classes I had already taken because they were required and I didn't take them there. And I didn't receive credits for a few other classes because I took them in 8th grade. Even though they were high school level classes that I got credit for at my old school, they wouldn't give me the credit. I tried to fight this, because there are so many other classes I could have taken instead of these crappy ones again, like Intro to physical science and health. I wanted to take some more business classes.

I'm still not sure as to how the relates to the topic at hand (as Capernicus pointed out) but I can completely relate to you. Recently, I transfered to a different high school because two of my best friends are going to this school (granted, we don't have any classes together) and it's a much better school for learning in compared to the school I would be going to. Anyway, in this school I'm having to take Wellness 1, 2, and 3 again. Granted, I still would have had to take a semester of it at the other school, but I'd still have a semester to myself. So yes, I can relate. And yes, it sucks. But that's just the school system in general.


Also, why wold reading these bad books benefit us in real life if we don't plan on becoming writers. Most people don't become writers, so you other point in your previous point is moot.

I'm going to guess and assume that by this post you mean this:

Now, later looking back, I see that they were all books that I learned something from, and grew personally as a writer.
Though, you must have read it wrong because I am 97.99% sure that she meant as a writer in general, not a professional writer.

Anyway, I'm not quite understanding what you mean by "bad" books. If you mean poorly written, or what. Though, I can assure you that none of the books any my teachers have assigned (and enjoyed themselves) were badly written.



Also, for me anyway, English has always been my worst subject, and is currently the only bad grade I've ever gotten. I got a B in it, though it should have been a B+. The teachers strange grading caused the grade to fall short by about a point. If it wasn't for that class, I'd have a perfect GPA.

It isn't the book's fault that you didn't have a perfect GPA, it was the teacher's (or perhaps your own) fault.
And again, if English is your worst subject, then who are you to say who among the classic writers are well written?


The only reading I like is manga and light novels. Maybe if we got to read more stuff like this, not manga, but the light novels, then people wouldn't hate english so much.

Oh yes, let us read "light novels" all of our lives so that when we grow up and have to actually learn something we say, "I'd like this thousand page reference book turned into a 'light novel' please. So I can enjoy it while I read." Light novels are for little kids. In this day and age, if we go back to reading "light novels" in High School, the world is going to laugh at us. Us, being America (apologies to everyone elsewhere in the world).

A teacher's job isn't to make you love every book you read (though they can have a great influence on it) or make you love the class you're in. It's to help you learn and prepare for the future. While you may say that you never use the things from the books they make you read, you should probably think about that a bit more.
You say you "understand" what they mean in classics when they give you morals to live by. And maybe you do. But you can't say that a book is badly written because it's telling something you already know to live by. It's simply reinforcing the fact with a different way of telling it. Just like with children. The best way to get through to kids about things they should and shouldn't do is tell them stories to make them understand. Paint pictures in their minds so they can see what consequences they will face. It is a method that's been used for thousands of years. No, we're not talking about what happened thousands of years ago, nor children's bedtime stories, but it's all connected.


If it's to teach morals,I think I want to make my own morals,and not base them off a book.
Alright. Let's make you forget everything you have ever learned. Lock you away in a room that's completely shut off from the outside world, yet gives you everything you need for living food, water, and sunlight. No human interaction whatsoever. We could throw a couple animals in there, maybe. Because that's what you would basically be if you weren't raised with morals put in you from the beginning. Your morals will still be the same as long as you interact with other human beings you can go against all the morals, but wouldn't that just make you . . . immoral? Yeah. What separates humans from animals is our ability to think beyond them. To make morals and create. Books are our stepping stones in teaching us how to create.


The things they have us read are usually God awful The only books I ever tolerated, and the last one in this example I liked, were The Great Gatsby, To Kill A Mockingbird, and 1984.

I read To Kill A Mockingbird the summer of 6th grade. Just so you know and all. In fact, it's still sitting on my shelf behind me. The thing about it was, that when I read it, I completely understood the words that I was reading. I completely understood the main idea of it all. Yet, it wasn't that interesting for me. Because in the end, I didn't understand. At least, not to the extent that I would if I read it again. Since then, I've read so many books and learned so much about English from my teachers and I can't thank them enough for all the assigned reading they gave us. If not, I would have never truly understood the simple things teachers are trying to show us in writing.


Just to clarify for you Cappers, I do find the meaning in some of the books we read, but my real problem is books from so long ago that they hold little relevence in today's society. The main explainations I've gotten from people about why we read these books is because they are classics. Some books I do not enjoy, but I understand the message of it.I just wish we could read books with the same messages, only that convey it in a less boring or tedious manner.

I just read a book for summer reading that was written over 50 years ago. Fahrenheit 451. Not sure if you've ever read it, but it completely relates to things these days. In fact, reading it, I was amazed at how vividly it described some of our own problems these days.
I highly recommend reading it and really taking the time to let it all sink in. My teacher made our class stop and think about it every two pages (and write a sticky note about what we thought). Originally, I hated this idea. But, it was a great way to really get me into the book. By page 24, I was completely engrossed in the characters, the plot, and the message behind it. From there, it only got better. As more and more characters were added, you could separate them into different groups to how people really are. Sure, it took things to an extreme but all in all, it was a great book.
Overview (Feel free to skip over, but no, it's not really a spoiler):
Books are illegal. And as a fireman, Guy Montag's job is to hunt down people who hide books then burn down their houses. Homes are fireproof- they've always been that way. Books are merely a way to drown people in fairy tales and misery- something no one wants. The main goal in life: be happy. Whether that be driving 100miles an hour to get out some stress (hey you may even run over a dog in the process! Maybe 3 or 4!) or going to Funland and smashing windows! Everything is for fun.
But in a world, secluded from the truth, where your "family" are simply people on a screen shouting at each other, where people murder each other every day for no reason, is there really happiness?
Trust me. It was not long, boring and tedious. In fact, it was about 165 pages.

/rant

[Capernicus]

It isn't the book's fault that you didn't have a perfect GPA, it was your own.


There, fixed it for you. As a teacher I greatly despise when students blame the teacher for their failing (or otherwise unsatisfactory) grade.

Oh by the way person I've already forgotten the username to and too lazy to go back to the 2nd page to find out: if you think that my post was venomous, I don't think you'll last very long on this forum.

[QueerFeminist16]

Oh by the way person I've already forgotten the username to and too lazy to go back to the 2nd page to find out: if you think that my post was venomous, I don't think you'll last very long on this forum.

No worries...I've gone through a fair share of unforgiving forums in my heyday; I look forward to some fun times here. Cheers, Capernicus.

@Tsuki +Major points for the detail of your post.


Oh yes, let us read "light novels" all of our lives so that when we grow up and have to actually learn something we say, "I'd like this thousand page reference book turned into a 'light novel' please. So I can enjoy it while I read." Light novels are for little kids. In this day and age, if we go back to reading "light novels" in High School, the world is going to laugh at us. Us, being America (apologies to everyone elsewhere in the world).

Most certainly, if you're perusing fifth-grade readers in high school, there will be people that'll gladly go out of their way to ridicule you. And if light novels are all that you've ever read by that point in time, you may need to expand your base. But, I don't see anything intrinsically wrong with reading children's novels, regardless of age: there's an engaging simplicity to be had in such stories. Even now, as a college student, I still find new things to discover in works by Beverly Clearly, C.S. Lewis, and Alexander Lloyd, among others. When you really love to read, you begin to stop caring what other people say about your tastes.

I otherwise agree with you: it's important to allow yourself to be exposed to a great array while learning. It's not always easily apparent, but every book that you tackle helps you to develop. One might never again open a textbook after graduation, but the skills you gain during your time in school will stay with you for life.

[*Tsuki*]

@Tsuki +Major points for the detail of your post.



Most certainly, if you're perusing fifth-grade readers in high school, there will be people that'll gladly go out of their way to ridicule you. And if light novels are all that you've ever read by that point in time, you may need to expand your base. But, I don't see anything intrinsically wrong with reading children's novels, regardless of age: there's an engaging simplicity to be had in such stories. Even now, as a college student, I still find new things to discover in works by Beverly Clearly, C.S. Lewis, and Alexander Lloyd, among others. When you really love to read, you begin to stop caring what other people say about your tastes.

I otherwise agree with you: it's important to allow yourself to be exposed to a great array while learning. It's not always easily apparent, but every book that you tackle helps you to develop. One might never again open a textbook after graduation, but the skills you gain during your time in school will stay with you for life.

Oh yeah, not saying that light novels are bad or anything. I still have tons of them flooding my bookcase right now. xD
Just, in high school, you can't expect students to learn a lot if they're rereading books from past days that aren't as advanced in reading level.

[Princely Dreaming Doll]

Spoken like someone with only six posts. You know nothing of Doll's infamy, nor Yoko's obvious trolling.

Thank you for not judging me on who I was. And thank you for not holding a grudge on the past.

[brolyx74]

Try to understand my viewpoint. I think people tend to do their best work in school when they are passionate about what they are doing. When a book is conveys it's point badly, and or is dull, then people tend to lose their passion over it. I showed my english teacher some of my writing in other subjects where I liked what I was writing about, and she agreed that I deserved the A I got on those papers. I felt like, if people could write about books that they were passionate about, the end results would be much better. My papers on the books I liked always got better grade then on the ones I didn't like. Can anyone relate to my thought process or am I alone here?

And maybe I'm wrong, but I don't look at the light novelsI read as for children when the books have to do with muder, mass homicide, and even sexual abuse in part of them. Sorry for thinking that these books were made for older readers. By older I don't mean adult,but I think high school would be appropriate.

[Furore]

By the way, things are slowly changing so that bits of paper matter more and more, and you need to get with it. People who have jobs are finding that, under new legislation and industry conventions, they need to go back to school to get certain degrees and certificates to keep their jobs. I'm telling you this so that you don't get caught in the same trap.

In my career you get your pieces of paper on the job. :laugh:
But that's part of my point, not every career works the same.

As for looking at his attitude, only time can tell!
Unless you're psychic or something. ;)

Oh and Tsuki, it was me who mentioned Shakespeare. What does knowing how great he was way back when have to do with anything now? It's not like they force fed anything by other highly influential writers who are perhaps more relevant for modern times. I suppose it would be handy if you were passionate about the language as his works are an art of sorts, but to make everyone read it... sorta fits with my opinion they force feed us stuff that isn't relevant to us all.

[Princely Dreaming Doll]

There, fixed it for you. As a teacher I greatly despise when students blame the teacher for their failing (or otherwise unsatisfactory) grade.


I kind have to disagree on this. IMO:

It isn't bad kid because the kid is bad, no it's bad kid because of bad parenting.

Bad dog no bad training, bad owner.

Bad student no bad teaching.

Over the years teaching has declined. Watched a documentary nearly half of the teachers in this newer generation will not know their math. As much as yes, it's partly a students fault, it's also the teacher's fault for not knowing the material.
The other issue is the education teaches children how to test and is only following a specific curriculum. In some other countries in Europe, the teacher's teach their student a curriculum they set up on their own, test them twice midterm and final like college. The students are known for doing well in this kind of course.

I don't see how reading light novels prepares you for Beowulf, Odyssey, Hollow Men, etc.

@Furore: It was Shakespeare, Homer, Edgar Allan Poe, and T.S. Elliot that inspired me to want to become a fictional writer. So there is a purpose.

[Furore]

@Furore: It was Shakespeare, Homer, Edgar Allan Poe, and T.S. Elliot that inspired me to want to become a fictional writer. So there is a purpose.

That's sort of what I was trying to say in my last post. To people who do something with English he would be - it's just to those who don't it's not exactly something all would use or even appreciate. Most subjects focusing on things like that here aren't mandatory, English is.

[Hanamaru Kunikida]

But reading that kind of stuff does benefit you in some way, maybe not us, with an already developed comprehension and vocabulary, but it will for those that are just progressing. I read books to enhance my English vocabulary, not only because it's not my native language but more because I'll have a better understanding of any subject.

This comes from a person who is majoring for Computer Programming and minoring for Culinary Arts.


There, fixed it for you. As a teacher I greatly despise when students blame the teacher for their failing (or otherwise unsatisfactory) grade.

Oh by the way person I've already forgotten the username to and too lazy to go back to the 2nd page to find out: if you think that my post was venomous, I don't think you'll last very long on this forum.

Basically I agree with you. However, there's teachers that think they know what they are doing and just show you an "example" and sit their big *** again and just ignore the students. Happened to be back in Freshmen year of High School for Geometry. So in the end of the day, when I walked out of that class...I learned nothing in the class...so I had to go home and actually ask for my parents' help, or review the examples multiple times.

[The Butcher]

Well,I've come back from a hiatus a few days ago,good thing this is till up too.

This year I will be required to read Of Mice and Men. I looked up the plot of it,and it looks very disappointing.

Authors like the classics(Shakespeare,Poe etc) cannot even hold candles to people like Stephen King,or Dean Koontz. The characters in the school books make me mad to no end. I'm not expecting a high and mighty dude(Harry Bosch or Dexter Morgan),but one that is at least tolerant. They even make Angel from MEG look like she has more personality than them,and she is a shark!

[BoldMushroom]

...by the end of Senior year, I will have accumulated 8 college credits, effectivelfy shortening my college career by a full semester...I don't know what universe you come from where 8 college credits = one full semester, but I want in. My associate's degree requires about 64 credits over two years - that's 16 credits per semester. And I go to community college. The only way AP credits can help you graduate a semester early is if you take the maximum number of credits every semester. Even then, it's a stretch; you might need a few winter/summer sessions.

(Unless you're taking some obtuse major like Interpreter for the Deaf or Heating, Ventilation, & AC, where the credit requirements are 13 or less per semester.)

Also important to note: A lot of people I know have complained that their AP credits didn't transfer from their high school (and, again, this is community college). Don't be disappointed if you have to retake those requirements in your freshman year.

[Hanamaru Kunikida]

@At the kids *****ing: Listen, like I said.

You'll have to read it eventually for a grade, right? So my what I'm saying is that people should stop *****ing about it, and just read it, and try to learn something valuable from it, because after all...YOU HAVE TO FREAKING READ IT. Nothing with an educational value it's in vain, so just do it, and try to learn something from it. =\ Complaning won't get you anywhere at all, it's not going to make your teacher change his/her's mind.

[brolyx74]

Boldmushroom, I do take summer sessions. I've done summer college work since seventh grade to prepare myself. And at the college I want to go to, its 64 credits over 4 years. And Kaitou. I understand where you're coming from, but people need to complain about things they don't like. what does it matter if they complain or not as long as they do the work anyway?

[Princely Dreaming Doll]

Authors like the classics(Shakespeare,Poe etc) cannot even hold candles to people like Stephen King,or Dean Koontz.

You're dead wrong. Shakespeared, Poe, etc. are so better than these modern writers. The modern writers are the worse. 2010 is the like a dry well of books.

[The Butcher]

You're dead wrong. Shakespeared, Poe, etc. are so better than these modern writers. The modern writers are the worse. 2010 is the like a dry well of books.
Their plots were so boring,and the characters were not even tolerable.

Most of the book series I read come from the 70's-90's half from 2000's,I always hated the old stuff. Their plot never motivated me to read it unless it was for a grade for class. Due to these horriblee books they make other kids read,they think all books suck. Not much kids like myself venture out and research other books that appeal to me. I guarantee you,you replace something like Shakespeare's work in the literature book,and put a part out of Storm Front by Jim Butcher,they will ,at the very least try the whole novel,and research more books.

To the person saying about learning something: I don't read to learn,I read to entertain myself. If I took morals and stuff from the books I read...well, it would not be too pretty. Also,if the boo makes me learn something whoopee,good for it,but the stuff the school books is not interesting. Things like Jeffery Deaver's The Burning Wire ,I learn how electricity works around NY,and how a person shut down 7 blocks of power to make light bulbs in street lights explode onto people,hitting them with shards of glass that were 1,000 degrees. Also how the people try to re-establish the connection to get the power back on. It was kind of hard to understand though.

[*Tsuki*]

@Furore: I actually was thinking about when he said that Hamlet was rated at about a C- or something like that.
@Yoko: Sure, people can complain. But you can't say that it's poorly written because you don't like it. I had actually brought this up in English class today when we were talking about the summer reading because we were talking about how, when their world first started falling into ruins, it's because people wanted things to be shortened. They wanted classics to be turned into 2 minute reads and so on and so forth.
Also, you say you read about murder, mass homicide (genocide? or just serial killers gone wild?), and even sexual abuse. Something bothers me about this fact, though. I mean, how far into detail are these books going and do you really want all the high school students to be reading about such things book after book after book? Another thing I like about the books schools/teachers assign are the variety in the stories.

It's funny because we were talking about how, no story in all of history is ever "original" anymore since we all are born and raised, learning about the morals and such in life. "The fact is that there's always going to be some sort of conflict and people will base their stories off of things they learned as children or read in the past."


Authors like the classics(Shakespeare,Poe etc) cannot even hold candles to people like Stephen King,or Dean Koontz. The characters in the school books make me mad to no end. I'm not expecting a high and mighty dude(Harry Bosch or Dexter Morgan),but one that is at least tolerant. They even make Angel from MEG look like she has more personality than them,and she is a shark!
That's your opinion. Just because you think it's right, doesn't mean that it is to others. So, at least include "In my opinion. . . "
Though, honestly, I strongly disagree. If those authors never existed, do you think books would be the same they are now? Do you think that Dean Koontz and Stephen King believe the classics to be poorly written and with weak plots/characters/etc? That they have never looked to Shakespeare and Poe's work without a scorn on their face? I think not. I would bet to say some of their best influences to their writing were based off of classic writers.

If you say the classics are far outdated, then you can't say they are poorly written. You must go back to the time they were written and compare it to the books written then. If you still believe that these innovators of writing were "bad", then I will honestly think you are stupid in that aspect.


Their plots were so boring,and the characters were not even tolerable.
Maybe the fact that they are so boring to you is because you've seen the plots used multiple times in tons of other books you've read?
Because just maybe when they were originally written, they were new to the world?


That's sort of what I was trying to say in my last post. To people who do something with English he would be - it's just to those who don't it's not exactly something all would use or even appreciate. Most subjects focusing on things like that here aren't mandatory, English is.
Wait . . . are you saying that English should be optional?

[The Butcher]

That's your opinion. Just because you think it's right, doesn't mean that it is to others. So, at least include "In my opinion. . . "
Though, honestly, I strongly disagree. If those authors never existed, do you think books would be the same they are now? Do you think that Dean Koontz and Stephen King believe the classics to be poorly written and with weak plots/characters/etc? That they have never looked to Shakespeare and Poe's work without a scorn on their face? I think not. I would bet to say some of their best influences to their writing were based off of classic writers.
If you say the classics are far outdated, then you can't say they are poorly written. You must go back to the time they were written and compare it to the books written then. If you still believe that these innovators or writing were "bad", then I will honestly think you are stupid in that aspect.Even if King and Koontz think their great,and inspired them,do you think that is going make me like those authors?No it will not.

A book is a book,I compare a book to any time.I 'll compare a 1700's book to a 2000's book,and judge to see which one is better.

Just because it is a older book,does not mean I will have mercy upon it when I rate it.



Maybe the fact that they are so boring to you is because you've seen the plots used multiple times in tons of other books you've read?
Because just maybe when they were originally written, they were new to the world?
The plots I see in school books are just repeats of other books or movies I have seen. I know Mystery is repetitive,but the killer and the person solving the crime are not the same all the time,and how they solve it makes it different from other mystery novels.

[Hanamaru Kunikida]

She wasn't talking about giving it mercy just because it's old, but more about giving the respect it needs to get. You may not like them, and that's fine but acknowledge that a lot writers were inspired by the likes of Shakespeare.

[The Butcher]

She wasn't talking about giving it mercy just because it's old, but more about giving the respect it needs to get. You may not like them, and that's fine but acknowledge that a lot writers were inspired by the likes of Shakespeare.
Okay, Edgler Formann Vess' description of why he killed,and how you need to experience every pleasure in life,AND how life is so precious. It is from Dean Koontz's Intensity

That is some good writing,and philosohpy right there. I don't see that in older writers though. I've acknowledged most of my authors were inspired by people like Poe or Shakespeare,but they still will not get my respect.

[Hanamaru Kunikida]

Respecting who they are and respecting their work are different. I respect Shake as a great writer, despise that I don't really Romeo & Juliet myself, I wouldn't even touch it with 10-foot long pole again. =\

[Princely Dreaming Doll]

Okay, Edgler Formann Vess' description of why he killed,and how you need to experience every pleasure in life,AND how life is so precious. It is from Dean Koontz's Intensity

That is some good writing,and philosohpy right there. I don't see that in older writers though. I've acknowledged most of my authors were inspired by people like Poe or Shakespeare,but they still will not get my respect.

Poe, Lovecraft, Shakespeare, Homer, etc. Writing style was always focused on criticizing something in their time. As well, as they are very philosophically based if you take some of their deep connected poems.
Those kind of stories were written on the basis of thought. To think while you read. What this person is trying to convey and say.

Stephen King doesn't have that quality, neither does Koontz, or any other writer you praise so much. Their books take no thought, their stories take no thought. I could read Stephen King, but that doesn't settle my need for a good story. Good stories are the kind that make you think.

"Fiction reveals, what reality obscures"

[*Tsuki*]

Respecting who they are and respecting their work are different. I respect Shake as a great writer, despise that I don't really Romeo & Juliet myself, I wouldn't even touch it with 10-foot long pole again. =\

Ey. Agreed.
Read that story at least 4 times through, thought about it for heaven knows how long, and I still can't connect with it.
The time differences are just too much for me. How they can fall so madly in love with each other in less than two hours- I just don't get it.


The plots I see in school books are just repeats of other books or movies I have seen. I know Mystery is repetitive,but the killer and the person solving the crime are not the same all the time,and how they solve it makes it different from other mystery novels.
Wait, so the classic books you read are repeats of other books or movies you've seen which were made after these were written?


Even if King and Koontz think their great,and inspired them,do you think that is going make me like those authors?No it will not.

A book is a book,I compare a book to any time.I 'll compare a 1700's book to a 2000's book,and judge to see which one is better.

Just because it is a older book,does not mean I will have mercy upon it when I rate it.
I didn't say that you have to like the authors. I hate the twilight series but that doesn't mean I don't respect Stephanie Meyer.

I think what Prince said perfectly words how I feel about this next one . . .

. . . mercy? Who said anything about mercy?

EDIT: Why do my posts turn out so freaking long? D:

[SigmaSD]

Respecting who they are and respecting their work are different. I respect Shake as a great writer, despise that I don't really Romeo & Juliet myself, I wouldn't even touch it with 10-foot long pole again. =\

Romeo and Juliet are confusing?

I liked the books we had to read in my high school. If I remember correcly, our list consisted of:
Speak
Raisin in the Sun
Macbeth
The Tempest
Romeo and Juliet
Lord of the Flies
To kill a Mockingbird
I know why the Caged Bird Sings (or something like that)
Taming of the Shrew
Oedipus Rex
Antigone
Huckleberry Finn
One flew over the Cuckoos nest
Of Mice and Men
Hamlet

My faves were Hamlet, Of Mice and Men, and To Kill a Mockingbird. The others were pretty good too, but I just couldn't get into Maya Angelou; too boring for me. Like many people mentioned, most of these books did teach me something and when I read them I can see why they are still being read to this day.

[brolyx74]

This is what I understand. I get that we read these books in english to broaden our vocabulary and to better our writing. I also get that we read the classics because they are the books filled with the most symbolism, imagery, etc... The only thing I don't understand is why is English required for 4 years. Its not even 4 classes, you need to take an english class all 4 years. If you take 2 in Freshman year, you still need to take one next year, the year after that, and the year after that. I'm just happy that for my senior year, I get to take Film as a literary medium. That shall make english a lot of fun. This may be only at my school, but at both schools I've gone to, it was the same, only at my new school, they offer film.

[Hanamaru Kunikida]

Ey. Agreed.
Read that story at least 4 times through, thought about it for heaven knows how long, and I still can't connect with it.
The time differences are just too much for me. How they can fall so madly in love with each other in less than two hours- I just don't get it.


Wait, so the classic books you read are repeats of other books or movies you've seen which were made after these were written?


I didn't say that you have to like the authors. I hate the twilight series but that doesn't mean I don't respect Stephanie Meyer.

I think what Prince said perfectly words how I feel about this next one . . .

. . . mercy? Who said anything about mercy?

EDIT: Why do my posts turn out so freaking long? D:

@At the portion of your post addressing my post + Siggy: Not really, I just don't feel the story at all and it's kind of silly to me, but that's just me though. =\

Ehm, Unless you're calling me your prince (<3), I think I was the one who addressed the "mercy" issue.
EDIT: I missed Princely's post, lol. NVM.

[The Butcher]

Poe, Lovecraft, Shakespeare, Homer, etc. Writing style was always focused on criticizing something in their time. As well, as they are very philosophically based if you take some of their deep connected poems.
Those kind of stories were written on the basis of thought. To think while you read. What this person is trying to convey and say.

Stephen King doesn't have that quality, neither does Koontz, or any other writer you praise so much. Their books take no thought, their stories take no thought. I could read Stephen King, but that doesn't settle my need for a good story. Good stories are the kind that make you think.

"Fiction reveals, what reality obscures"Are you saying the plot has to be intelligent?Some of the plots I read of my free will are not intelligent,but they are very entertaining, and suspenseful.

I think you only read Koontz's Frankenstein to get your opinion on him,and you probably think King is just a gore author.

[Furore]

Wait . . . are you saying that English should be optional?

Not quite. English the language is important, but aspects like appreciating works written in antiquated English and the like should be split off elsewhere IMO as a good number of people would never have to use the stuff, a lot of people don't even care for that stuff. I look at other core subjects here like Maths and Science and they teach relevant information the vast majority of the time with stuff that's relevant to other people being in optional classes (Advanced/Specific fields etc). That's how it works here at any rate. Perhaps what rubbed it in the most is high school here consists of grades 7-12 meaning I had six years of compulsory lessons with a good amount of stuff useless to me - I became quite adept at bluffing my way through exams and the like so I wouldn't even have to bother with some of the forced literature in the last few years.

It's not like they couldn't make it happen here either, there are tons of different subjects one can take up in my state (and country).

[Princely Dreaming Doll]

Are you saying the plot has to be intelligent?Some of the plots I read of my free will are not intelligent,but they are very entertaining, and suspenseful.

I think you only read Koontz's Frankenstein to get your opinion on him,and you probably think King is just a gore author.

Don't tell me how I think. I read books because I want the challenge in them. As said, I was a very early reader and read mostly everyday of my life.
I read Koontz and Stephen King because people recommended them to me and said they were great writers. That whole spill, they thought I'd like them for some reason. And all I could taste was a bad dish.

Yes, plots should have to be intelligent. Intelligent plots is what gives some people the challenge of books. Some people read books for the entertainment of a challenge.

[The Butcher]

Don't tell me how I think. I read books because I want the challenge in them. As said, I was a very early reader and read mostly everyday of my life.
I read Koontz and Stephen King because people recommended them to me and said they were great writers. That whole spill, they thought I'd like them for some reason. And all I could taste was a bad dish.

Yes, plots should have to be intelligent. Intelligent plots is what gives some people the challenge of books. Some people read books for the entertainment of a challenge.
I am completely speechless right now. I know King and Koontz don't have intelligent plots,but their plots are entertaining,and very suspenseful.

You read the old stuff for that?A challenge?You don't read it for plot or characters?

Are you a Christopher Nolan fan?

[Princely Dreaming Doll]

I am completely speechless right now. I know King and Koontz don't have intelligent plots,but their plots are entertaining,and very suspenseful.

You read the old stuff for that?A challenge?You don't read it for plot or characters?

Are you a Christopher Nolan fan?

My enjoyment doesn't just come from the sensationalist story and plot. It has to be sensational and creatively intelligent.

[*Tsuki*]

Not quite. English the language is important, but aspects like appreciating works written in antiquated English and the like should be split off elsewhere IMO as a good number of people would never have to use the stuff, a lot of people don't even care for that stuff. I look at other core subjects here like Maths and Science and they teach relevant information the vast majority of the time with stuff that's relevant to other people being in optional classes (Advanced/Specific fields etc). That's how it works here at any rate. Perhaps what rubbed it in the most is high school here consists of grades 7-12 meaning I had six years of compulsory lessons with a good amount of stuff useless to me - I became quite adept at bluffing my way through exams and the like so I wouldn't even have to bother with some of the forced literature in the last few years.

It's not like they couldn't make it happen here either, there are tons of different subjects one can take up in my state (and country).

Ah, I suppose that makes sense.
Though, a lot of teachers (around here at least) don't teach a lot of the extremely old classics, just a few so we know what they're like.
They want to show us symbolism in it's finest (That's actually what we're currently learning about, knock on wood) and other aspects that are important to find in English that can't just be found in every other book.
At least, that's how I see it. They choose the older books so we can really understand what they mean when they're talking.

Also, I've been wondering this forever. How do you have 1008367 rep points? o_O
It's not like that big of a deal, just don't normally see it unless it's some epic poster from 7-9 years ago. O_O

[The Butcher]

My enjoyment doesn't just come from the sensationalist story and plot. It has to be sensational and creatively intelligent.
Well...you're the first I've ever seen to say this.

Well,anyway,the point I'm trying to make in this thread is:
If the school did not makes us read crap,kids would like reading a lot more than they do. Though I kind of steered it off topic to what I was trying to say...

[Hanamaru Kunikida]

Ah, I suppose that makes sense.
Though, a lot of teachers (around here at least) don't teach a lot of the extremely old classics, just a few so we know what they're like.
They want to show us symbolism in it's finest (That's actually what we're currently learning about, knock on wood) and other aspects that are important to find in English that can't just be found in every other book.
At least, that's how I see it. They choose the older books so we can really understand what they mean when they're talking.

Also, I've been wondering this forever. How do you have 1008367 rep points? o_O
It's not like that big of a deal, just don't normally see it unless it's some epic poster from 7-9 years ago. O_O

He's a pretty funny member, so I assume some of the big boys/girls reaped him and it made it go pretty far.
Since Days on forum + Rep Points + Post Count = Pretty high Rep Power.

[Yuki Atsuma]

Because they wish to bore us to death.

[StupidEJ95]

Most of the books I read in school had easy tests involved mainly because my brother endured reading the B.S. without wiping his *** with it or going to Barnes and Noble and saying to the manager 'I want my money back!' (In translation he read the same books I'm reading in school.) I didn't have to read them. I just rumaged through his drawers for his notes on the books he read. When I read the real thing I couldn't go through a tiny fraction of a page.

[Yukitomon]

My 4th grade teacher made us read Chronicles of Narnia. Everyone liked it as far as I can remember. To Kill a Mockingbird was like reading someone's dream; semi-coherent. Outsiders was good, In the Heat of the Night was pretty cool, Kite Runner was awesome, and Devil's Arithmetic was chilling and gripping.

[Kleio]

I hated the books I had to read. The exceptions were The Outsiders and The Giver, Shakespear, and Poe. But the novels we had to read were just stupid. Hawthorne was atrocious. I didn't read it. I can understand that we had to read books from that time period, but I wish they weren't so terrible. But I think if they are going to torture us then they should have an alternate list in case some of us can't read The Scarlet Letter or The Old Man And The Sea (which I read. I wanted to beat people up when I finished). Or have open book tests. I passed my Frankenstein test because my English teacher was gangster and let us have an open test where we coiuld quietly discuss and peruse the book for answers.

[.KITE.]

I could babble about the worth of reading true works of literature, but I'm not.

No, no. I'll babble a bit. There is pleasuring reading, and then there is literature, and while I don't necessarily think there should be a distinction, there is. Catch-22? Entertainment and purpose. Heart of Darkness? Mostly purpose, less entertainment. I found that book absolutely enthralling, but many of my classmates would beg to differ. Though, I do agree with the way books are tested. They shouldn't be a "LET'S SEE IF YOU READ SPARKNOTES!" like a teacher at my school does. I think that those kind of tests kill any passion for literature. Though, I'm all for essay tests like my current AP English Lit teacher is so fond of.

But honestly, I'm in agreement that English should be taught all 4 years. Maybe, if you're lucky and take AP English and score a 4 or a 5, you won't have to take it in college. But most people do have to take it in college at least for a couple of years, so it's one of those necessities that will haunt and torment you if you don't have a grasp of it now.

[under the rain]

Some of them are stupid, some of them aren't. I had to read Fahrenheit 451 and A Tale of Two Cities which were both very good books. I also had to read A Walk Across America which is one of the worst books I have ever read.

[Anuket]

Talk about crappy books? Try studying in China and you'd have a different thought on "crappy". I remember one time where they actually told us to read a compilation of ancient poems.. it was dreadful, I mean you can't even understand it. Then they told us to write an essay about it.. I mean, we weren't born 2,000 years ago. Other crappy books such as a memoir of a guy who went rebellious against the system of the government and then died a hero, it wasn't the best book to encourage kids these days. Still, reading books told by the teacher in schools in China isn't gonna be on your top list.

[Skilero]

This was always a frustrating issue with me as well. To help, here's what I've come to find in it all:

Bestselling books are oftentimes too political, explicit, or popular for the readings of students. To solve this issue, schools assign 'classics' for students to read, which often tell of tales or adventures from a very diplomatic point of view (far from politics and non-explicit). While the classics can be great reads for both knowledge and recreation, they are limited in variety and tend to have a monotonous diction (due to a much lesser availability of books back in the times). Schools do not confront this issue by searching for books that are new and appropriate for the selected group they are assigning to, and rather jump onto the bandwagon of other schools who're ignoring what's out there. Funding can also be an issue for schools. While new books can have benefits, they commonly have high price tags and aren't available in mass print. At the same time, classics are available for bulk purchase and are thus a viable option for your educational institution.

I do believe this is it!

Regards,
SK

[GuyverKnight]

Ugh...even though I was homeschooled there were some pretty aweful books that I had to read. Seriously it was freaking torture, they were so boring and really didnt grab my interest at all. Even my mom( who is my teacher too) thought that they were boring.

[President Truman]

You people don't seem to enjoy learning. Not very surprising, considering some of the things I've seen here.

[Lei Long]

First of most of the books are only crappy if you don't understand them, Which if u dnt ask for help! Second to answer ur question it will help in future of ur individual education.

[President Truman]

First of most of the books are only crappy if you don't understand them, Which if u dnt ask for help! Second to answer ur question it will help in future of ur individual education.

You obviously don't seem like the kind of person who understand books.

[Lei Long]

You obviously don't seem like the kind of person who understand books.
and you seem like the person who judges a book by its cover! :P

[GuyverKnight]

You people don't seem to enjoy learning. Not very surprising, considering some of the things I've seen here.

Or perhaps we dont like the garbage that they shove down our throats?

[President Truman]

Or perhaps we dont like the garbage that they shove down our throats?

Well you're hardly a judge of what is and isn't garbage. If they're making you read it, it's for a good reason. Now stop whining about what you have to read in school.

[Hypatia]

So far I have had good books. Nothing boring or pointless.
Here in South Africa we read some local books, which are quite interesting, as well as Shakesphere and a few other titles. I have never had an issue with school books.

[GuyverKnight]

Well you're hardly a judge of what is and isn't garbage. If they're making you read it, it's for a good reason. Now stop whining about what you have to read in school.

Do I look like I was forcing you to agree with my opinion? And for your know-it all information Im a collage student and for all the new reading I would rather read collage books than the crap they make you read in school.

[President Truman]

Do I look like I was forcing you to agree with my opinion? And for your know-it all information Im a collage student and for all the new reading I would rather read collage books than the crap they make you read in school.

...Collage? COLLAGE? Don't you mean college?

[Skilero]

...Collage? COLLAGE? Don't you mean college?

Sir, there's this wonderful thing called the bold tag I think you would find useful in your trollary.

[Aleyna]

Because most of the books are textbooks, that are meant to be read for memorizing key lessons that need to learn to somehow apply into everyday life. Memorizing lots of things is not fun.

[brolyx74]

If they're making you read it, it's for a good reason.

Or they make you read it because it is what the teachers already know and it would be easier to have the teachers teach what they already know/what the school already has available as opposed to new books that cost:more money and the time it would take for teachers to learn it well enough to actually teach to students.

[blueangel06661]

So far I've read pretty decent books that have references to other things such as

Fahrenheit 451- Taught you about how corrupt everything can be once you burn books and things. Hard read though.
Lord of the Flies- Didn't like this book at first but once again proved to be interesting and about how things can go without civilization and rules.
Canterbury Tales- Has multiple references from even todays time. I do believe South Park referenced to them one time.
Beowulf- This was alright as well. I didn't care for it all too much but it kept my attention at least.
Night- I'll never ever forget this book.

My two personal favorites were Fahrenheit 451 and Night. I looked forward to reading those two and I do think all the material my school had made us read was rather appropriate and with good cause.

[Bibi of the Blue Sea]

I didn't think the books I was made to read in high school were at all boring. Most of them are taught in English class because they are well written and have wonderful examples on the use of English to teach/ convey certain ideas and morals. Even if I disagreed with what the symbolism some teachers thought something meant, I still enjoyed reading the novels. The authors are worthy of having their works taught in high schools across the States.

[Exodus__]

Because of the mistakes of History.

[TheAsterisk!]

If we are to read "classics" and preserve the "classics" in the minds of young students, then why in Hell stop at Shakespeare, or even Homer? Where's my Gilgamesh, darn it?! I've never seen Gilgamesh assigned in a high school!
And why do the Romans always seem to get left out? The Aeneid is interesting, more so if you evaluate it as Augustan propaganda instead of as myth.

If we are to read them to understand culture, or even culture as it relates to language and writing, then isn't that covered by the social studies department, not the English staff?
And why, then, the particular works chosen? I think Mark Twain's 'non-fiction' works would do far more here than his fiction, certainly more than Elizabethan plays.

If we are to learn how to write narratives or perfect tone from these works, then about the only thing Dickens can impart is a want for brevity and a loathing for the entirety of Victorian fiction. (Certainly, if I describe an author as excessively verbose, things are not well.)

If they are to teach morality, then I fear for our collective future. Taking ethics from fiction is idiotic, like taking ethics from mood rings. There's an entire field of philosophy dedicated to ethics, most of it rational and not directly based in characters, emotions or empathy. (You could apply the ethics you learned to a fictional scenario, though.)

If they are to highlight "problems from today," then:


1 - Why are the books so damn old if the problems are contemporary?
2 - If we're supposed to learn that human nature and the progression of societies and states never really varies too much, then why not just teach history? That works nicely.


Yes, reading- both non-fiction and fiction- has both academic and practical uses, but many of the works chosen to be taught and read do not seem to match well with the reasons given. Whether the reasons given may need revision or the works chosen often need reevaluation is a matter for argument, but something is desperately wrong.

I've also yet to hear a good, solid argument (that doesn't rely on some ad hoc "age implies value" crap) that Frankenstein is any better than Jurassic Park. (I speak of the novel, not the movie. It should also be noted that judging the novel from the film is like judging the whole of authentic Italian food by stopping at a Pizza Hut.)

On the other hand, in Canterbury Tales Chaucer (if translated- reading the original language for a contemporary English class is cruelty) insults all his characters and those they represent in a pretty amusing manner.

[Uncanny X-Man]

I disagree, where I was we got to read some pretty good books, my favorite that I clearly remember was some kids who should gather some very important stuff and put it in a giant pile to prove something to another kid, and one of the things they end up getting the head of one of the kids dog which they cut off, a crazy book with some crazy kids, if I could remember the name of the book I would probably buy it.
So yeah, maybe you are just unlucky, or maybe they just don't let you read the kind of books you like to read, I'd suggest you talk to your teacher and maybe discuss some books that you would find interesting to read that could have something to do with whatever class you have.

[Penshiru]

Well I do think your right in some cases.
I hated The Catcher in the Rye
I loved Animal Farm, The Kite Runner, and Lord of the Flies.
I just think it could also depend on your class and teacher about the books you read
I think they should work on the textbooks. Those textbooks sometimes are painful to read

[Thenu]

I never read the books the schools told me to read lol

[brolyx74]

I've looked back on some of the things they've made me read in school, and now I do have a better appreciation for the stories, but still I hate the books. The reading of Dorian Gray was horribly painful, but I really do enjoy the overall story.

[Nesh]

So they wouldn't have to spent money on the good ones!

[╬Karami Mew~Meow]

Yeah, and there are those authors that do not want their books being used to force kids to read. I think the authors would appreciate it if their books aren't forced, because kids might just end up hating them.

[Trippy Hippie]

Lol, cause they're too lazy to actually to money towards buying decent books. Or they can't afford it. //2

[zekes]

I guess it has something to do with your teacher. Maybe her strategies are not that interesting that's why you think that reading those books are really not helping you.

[Shikshin]

Although many of the books or plays or poems we were supposed to read and analyse I didn't like, at least I can say I have taken those analytical skills away with me, whereas before they weren't so good. Our teacher never picked the 'good' Shakespeare plays and would always choose the dreariest of poems, but that opinion differs from one person to the next.
At the start of my GCSE's, on one piece of coursework, I got a D because I wasn't being thorough when describing a text or a theme. When I retook it a year later, I go an A because we did more and more practise. Even though I hated most of the practise tests, I stuck with it and now I'm glad I did because my grades are far better off because of it.
The only texts I really liked were Of Mice and Men (I didn't appreciate the novel as much before I had watched the film adaptation), Desiree's Baby (the text I had first got a D on because I didn't give it much of a chance) and then the extract we got on the final exam which was Catch-22, which I plan on reading the full book.

[~Fallen~Angel~]

It's cause most good books have inappropriate content or have no moral at the end. But certain books they make us read are good and help us grow as people. We just have to bear through the not so good and savor the good.

[Datenshi]

Or, you could go the route of the Japanese Ministry of Education, which is to cut and paste passages from various books into a neat little packaged textbook, complete with convenient little blank spaces to fill in so you can memorize the big words and a patronizing little answer booklet that tells you exactly what you should have thought after reading each page, and have the students do literally nothing but take turns reading aloud the passages word for word during literature class.

From my point of view, at least most of you seem to have got assigned complete, unmutilated books to read at your leisure.


On a more serious note (or maybe not); the way I see it, the teaching of literature is essentially a nationalist endeavor whose chief aim is to indoctrinate citizens with a common language and the sense that they are a members of a common culture, making them more productive members of society and also less likely to make a fuss when the state makes them pay their taxes or ships their families off to war (the development of the printed press is closely related with the rise of nationalism; Benedict Anderson's Imagined Communities and whatnot). For example, the first steps of colonization (like what Japan did to Taiwan and Korea and the British did to practically everywhere else) is to make the people learn the language and the literature of the colonialists. Literature has far less to do with the intrinsic value of learning the classics than people sometimes like to think. The only reason some works are chosen is because they're more effective tools of legitimization; beyond that, children can be reading instruction manuals for all extents and purposes.

[nrL]

Most of the books they force people to read at schools are propaganda books so we'll hate the other nations as much as the older generations do.
Not that anyone actually reads them, but the propaganda sessions during classes are painful none the less.

[SwiftKill GunToting]

I personally hate some of the books I'm given, though i suppose a lot of this could be up to a teacher's preferences.

I was given Fast Food Nation which is along the same journalism as Supersize Me. I felt like I was re-learning fast-food dangers/rumors we suspect all over again, which only serves to disgust me and make me put off my summer-work longer.

This was for my AP Language course, and i can't help but feel studying the use of rhetorics, quote analyzation and such can be done on a book that's...oh, what's the word??...oh yeah, entertaining!! Gives us some top teen books with action/drama we'll be into, lessons we can learn from, books people actually want to read!! And if not that, then how about some classics like Frankenstein? Once in class I was given The Raven and The Tell-Tale Heart and I thouroughly enjoyed it. Shakespeare's take on Caesar was fine work (though i was sick for reading most of the first Act).

This is all I want, not too much to ask, i don't think.

[ZombieWolf2508]

I remember having to read uber crappy books in advanced classes. Don't complain until a dumbass teacher has the class read Twilight. It was painful. That class ruined reading for ke T-T I had to read some of the STUPIDEST books in that class >.>

[HamsterGod]

I usually read onyl what I like. The teacher's can't really complain much, so I don't care. I try to read what I'm given, but all the books are usually stupid ot uninteresting. Like when we had to read uhm..."Under the Slavery" (idk how the name is in English) by Ivan Vazov. It's about the Bulgarian revolution under the Turkish slavery, interesting and all, unless you try to read it or watch the movie. I never finished doing either. I'm not proud of myself, but I know my limits. This year we have to read some parts of the Bible and some mythology. It's still pretty boring, though. I think that whatever the teachers give us to read, it will seem boring...