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Mugen001
06-18-2010, 11:27 PM
I've been searching for an extremely long time for an anime series in which the bad guy ultimately wins, and:

A) succeeds in his plan- takes over the world or whatever
B) kills all of his enemies (good guys)
and
C) does not die

I would also prefer if the bad guy was the protagonist (as in death note, minus its horrible ending). And to clarify, I mean a murderous ambitious character (though he may have some personal code of honor) when I say bad guy, not just some "tough guy" anti-hero

Please help me find one! I would like it to be rather violent and uncensored and take place in either the present or the past (nothing futuristic). There are so many animes out there, there just has to be one like that...

Please don't respond with "that's a stupid idea" or "what's wrong with you", etc, only serious responses, as I'm having great difficulty finding what everyone else seems to find so easily: an anime they like.

wolfgirl90
06-19-2010, 07:55 PM
I've been searching for an extremely long time for an anime series in which the bad guy ultimately wins, and:

A) succeeds in his plan- takes over the world or whatever
B) kills all of his enemies (good guys)
and
C) does not die

I would also prefer if the bad guy was the protagonist (as in death note, minus its horrible ending). And to clarify, I mean a murderous ambitious character (though he may have some personal code of honor) when I say bad guy, not just some "tough guy" anti-hero

Please help me find one! I would like it to be rather violent and uncensored and take place in either the present or the past (nothing futuristic). There are so many animes out there, there just has to be one like that...

Please don't respond with "that's a stupid idea" or "what's wrong with you", etc, only serious responses, as I'm having great difficulty finding what everyone else seems to find so easily: an anime they like.

Well, despite your request, I am going to have to comment on how just...silly your request is. And yes, this is a serious response. :rolleyes:

Even in the case of Code Geass or Berserk where the protagonist is "evil", the "evil" is based on one's perspective (there are not many Light Yagami fangirls who are going to say that he is a bad guy). In fact, anime like Code Geass are made so the the "good guys" and the "bad guys" are sides that are hard to distinguish, not made in to black and white sides of good versus evil. To be honest, you are just flipping the script, not changing it.;)

I honestly can not think of any anime that operates under your parameters (except maybe Kōtetsu Sangokushi). That doesn't that there aren't any, but that is mostly because you are looking for something VERY specific outside of the (Japanese) mainstream (there are plenty of American movies where the "bad guy" not only wins, but outright conquers). I know plenty of anime where there is no happy ending or where protagonist has to go through hell in order to get to that ending, happy or not:

Code Geass
Berserk
Saikano
Neon Genesis Evangelion
Jin Roh: The Wolf Brigade
Higurashi no Naku Koro ni (When They Cry)
Ima Soku ni Iru Boku (Now and Then, Here and There)
X
Dangaio OVA 3
Virtually every other Gundam series from the 80s (especially Char's Counterattack) onward (e.g Gundam SEED Destiny, Gundam 00)

Of course, these do not fit what you are looking for. However, like I said before, the problem with you is looking for something REALLY specific to watch. You might want to try expanding your horizons (or make your own anime).:closedeye

Mugen001
06-19-2010, 09:04 PM
Thanks for all your suggestions, I'll have to look into all of those.

When I was searching for an anime like I described, I found a huge number of threads and posts on various sites asking for the same things, there must be a relatively large and untapped target audience for animes like that.

.Sev
06-19-2010, 11:34 PM
Couldn't this almost count as a spoiler thread? :P

wolfgirl90
06-20-2010, 12:37 PM
Couldn't this almost count as a spoiler thread? :P

I guess, if you really want to stretch it. However, like I said before, the anime that I recommended had conflicts where "good" and "evil" are hard to discern. That's what makes the conflict in the first place. I didn't say that evil outright wins in any of them (except for one) because the "evil" is effectively something that you need to figure out on your own.

This does not mean that evil doesn't win in any of them; I just didn't reveal which anime ended this way.

If you know how Code Geass, Higurashi, and Ima Soku end, okay then. However, I didn't say how they ended.;)

The Butcher
06-20-2010, 04:09 PM
Can't think of anything other than Code Geass.

Movie Dave
06-20-2010, 04:13 PM
school days
saikano
and that would be it for what i know o.o
as for death note i noticed that i can't say who's bad or good it is all poll based.

Gjallarhorn
06-20-2010, 04:41 PM
The original Naruto series; no joke, the bad guys win.

Doom85
06-20-2010, 08:09 PM
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheBadGuyWins

Gjallarhorn, are you referring to the original version of the first chapter of Naruto (which I've yet to read, but I've heard bits and pieces about), or the end to Part 1? If it's the latter, I'd see that as more of a "bad guys won the current battle, but the overall fight continues" sort of ending.

Mugen001
06-20-2010, 09:00 PM
Yeah, please don't say specifically how any of these animes end, just whether I'd like them :-)

For reference, I thought Light Yagami was a great character and just the sort of protagonist I like-- arguably evil, but still with somewhat-moral reasoning behind his actions. An ending in which Light had killed Near would have made it a perfect anime to me.

I've started watching Elfen Lied, as some people recommended it to me. I like it so far, as it certainly doesn't shy away from violence, and while I don't expect any of the main characters to die any time soon, it's not predictable in the sense of some other "villain of the week" animes, so it's keeping my interest. That said, I've heard it's only 13 episodes long, so I'll need more animes soon enough. I haven't yet gotten a chance to look into all of the animes you recommended, wolfgirl, so I'll let you know how those go.

Gjallarhorn
06-20-2010, 09:27 PM
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheBadGuyWins

Gjallarhorn, are you referring to the original version of the first chapter of Naruto (which I've yet to read, but I've heard bits and pieces about), or the end to Part 1? If it's the latter, I'd see that as more of a "bad guys won the current battle, but the overall fight continues" sort of ending.

No, I'm referring to the entirety of the original story arc. The entire build up of the arc was the relationship between Naruto and Sasuke, with the conflict arising from Sasuke's desire to avenge his clan. Naruto, as the hero of the story, was assigned the role of having to prevent Sasuke from giving in to his dark desires, and was both defeated and failed to do so at the same time. Sasuke, being the antagonist in this situation, wins.

小美ドクロchan
06-24-2010, 10:47 AM
What kind of message would it be to have ultimate evil conquer good? o_o That is twisted....even the Japanese think so, as twisted as anime can get, they do not do that. I mean it would be.....just wrong.

GameGeeks
06-24-2010, 11:01 AM
Not really, look at the book 1984. While that's more about oppression still can be divided up into good and evil at the most basic level. You'd have to be an amazing writer to pull it off. As for the message it sends, it states that the guys in the right don't always win. It's an un-sugarcoated truth which is why I think it hasn't been touched in anime.

Doom85
06-24-2010, 12:27 PM
It's an un-sugarcoated truth which is why I think it hasn't been touched in anime.

It has been touched in anime, but it's just no one wants to say which ones since it would be a major spoiler. If you really want to know and don't mind spoiling the series, check the TVtropes list I provided.

GameGeeks
06-24-2010, 12:42 PM
Yeah, touched but it doesn't go beyond that. Prequels, I don't count. Like it says, doomed by canon and come after the original anime. Also, animes where you can't tell who is good and evil don't count since those tend to be a matter of each sides beliefs/opinions. Like I said, touched but never outright.

wolfgirl90
06-24-2010, 12:49 PM
What kind of message would it be to have ultimate evil conquer good? o_o That is twisted....even the Japanese think so, as twisted as anime can get, they do not do that. I mean it would be.....just wrong.

Well, I wouldn't say that. Just look at my first post. I already listed a bunch of anime where this COULD happen (I am not giving the endings away) and already gave one where not only did ultimate evil win, but outright won; I mean, the villain was laughing manically at the end (I already gave it away; look back at my first post to see its name).:ninja:

Now, like I said before, I don't really have a problem with the villain winning (hence all the anime I listed); I have a problem with ultimate evil winning. Not because I believe that its "twisted" (hell, I could name off plenty of American movies where this happens), but simply because I do not believe in "ultimate" evil and that such black and white descriptions of good and evil make me want to roll my eyes (at least when it comes to anything that is supposed to attract adults). Such "complexities" exist in children's cartoons where the story has a hero whose good because he needs to be and a villain whose evil because they want to be (and not even Lelouch, Sephiroth and Gendo Ikari are evil for no reason).:closedeye

And while such evilness leads to villains like Megabyte (Reboot), Skelator (He-Man), Jafar (Disney's Aladdin), Cobra Commander (G.I Joe) and Dilandau Albatou (Visions of Escaflowne) and also leads to villains like Plankton (Spongebob), Murky and Lurky (Rainbow Bright), Dick Dastardly (Wacky Races), Professor Coldheart (Care Bears) and The Purple Pie Man (Strawberry Shortcake).:rolleyes:

小美ドクロchan
06-24-2010, 12:49 PM
It's an un-sugarcoated truth which is why I think it hasn't been touched in anime.

Right, because most anime is aimed at the youth in Japan; children, teenagers, and young adults. And people don't want to send them the negative message of "If you're evil, you can get everything you want!"

The only luck this guy might have is watching a......hentai or something. Something made for adults ONLY, for sheer entertainment, the same purpose horror movies serve.


I already listed a bunch of anime where this COULD happen (I am not giving the endings away) and already gave one where not only did ultimate evil win, but outright won; I mean, the villain was laughing manically at the end (I already gave it away; look back at my first post to see its name).

I will take a shot in the dark and say....Berserk? But that one was never finished....does it count?

Furore
06-24-2010, 01:43 PM
I saw a few scenes from something sounding something like evil winning at my mate's place. Though I don't think the evil guy was complex, just incredibly batshit insane and brutally violent. I think it was called 'something' (unsure of what exactly) Guro.

Not really my cup of tea though, I much prefer my anime with warm feelgood endings despite whatever adversity faced.

Doom85
06-24-2010, 05:27 PM
Yeah, touched but it doesn't go beyond that. Prequels, I don't count. Like it says, doomed by canon and come after the original anime. Also, animes where you can't tell who is good and evil don't count since those tend to be a matter of each sides beliefs/opinions. Like I said, touched but never outright.

Well I gather you didn't even look at the list because there were quite a few there that would qualify. I'll list another that strangely was absent from the list, but don't say I didn't warn any of you about the spoilers!: Chrono Crusade

GameGeeks
06-24-2010, 06:09 PM
No, I looked at the list. But one of the main ones it lists as the villain winning, Berserk, wasn't so much the villain winning as it was the anime just not having a proper ending. Many animes get dropped and never finished. Though for that one I'm just going by what friends have told be since I couldn't get pass the first few episodes. Just seemed like too much mindless bloodshed to me. Haven't seen Chrono Crusade since I want to finish the two games before I watch it.

小美ドクロchan
06-25-2010, 01:12 PM
Well I gather you didn't even look at the list because there were quite a few there that would qualify. I'll list another that strangely was absent from the list, but don't say I didn't warn any of you about the spoilers!: Chrono Crusade

Eh, it occured to me but I don't know because.....

Azmaria is still alive at the end....even though Ion is too (come on, a human cannot KILL a devil lol) but it's like a neverending cycle of good and evil...so I don't think that counts....

t9s1n2
06-27-2010, 05:05 PM
I think there was a digimon season in which the bad guys won. I think it is 4.

Mugen001
06-28-2010, 11:35 PM
(original poster)


What kind of message would it be to have ultimate evil conquer good? o_o That is twisted....even the Japanese think so, as twisted as anime can get, they do not do that. I mean it would be.....just wrong.

Not everyone's definition of evil is the same. Anyway, I checked out alot of the animes that people have mentioned here. To be honest alot of them are too futuristic for me (Code Geass, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Dangaioh OVA 3) or are just not really interesting to me (Jin Roh, Saikano, School Days, Kotetsu Sangokushi, Higurashi, Ima Soku) for whatever reason. Meanwhile, I really liked Elfen Lied, and I should mention that alot of the more evil characters in it (#35 the psycho killer girl, Lucy when she attacks a ton of innocent people for no reason and especially kohta's family) I found myself cheering against. Maybe they're too evil for me. Like I mentioned I do like characters with some sort of personal code of honor, not just out to kill innocent people for no reason. But it was a good anime. I also liked the movie Ninja Scroll, in which a good guy wins, although I did kind of feel bad for the antagonist again in that one (lol). So yea... anyway what I'm looking for is probably not as cut-and-dry as what I originally posted, since I've found some I really like since then where the "good guys" win.

1gn1t0r
06-29-2010, 02:42 PM
I can't see how the bad guy can be the protagonist ? Don't you mean the bad guy should be the main character. As the protagonist of a story is regarded as the good guy and the antagonist as the bad guy.

Anyway the only anime I can think of that fits this description is Death Note