Religious bias in the classroom

[Velvet_Nightmare]

I am currently enrolled in a basic philosophy class. Our current reading is that of Lucretius' "The Nature of Things." After asking our opinions on it, one girl said to the professor that she hated it because it ranted on the "evils of religion" Well what about his theory on atoms? "He called religion evil!"

So fast forward to the next class, the professor asks us a simple question, "Is it possible to literally see the atomic structure of wheat?" Same girl, "Well, what about God, because he sees everything."

Honestly, you're not helping yourself or the discussion every time you bring up God. I'm not an atheist, but I honestly think that when it comes to the classroom, religion should be brought up as little as possible, and if possible not at all. By relying on "Well God..." as an answer defeats the purpose of you learning and answering questions. Do a little more thinking, it's not that hard.

Thoughts, opinions, hatred, all is welcome in this discussion.

[Amray The II]

It is like jumping from atop a cliff and expecting God to catch you;
Irrelevant, unreliable, and extremely stupid.

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

It is like jumping from atop a cliff and expecting God to catch you;
Irrelevant, unreliable, and extremely stupid.
Don't listen to him. Jumping off cliffs so you can be caught by god is awesome. I'd go so far as to say that if you haven't jumped off a cliff to prove you believe in god, you are clearly going to hell. Just make sure you bring any and all kids you may or may not have when you do it, and remember that:

Matthew 17-20: And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

If your prayers can move mountains, then it would be incredibly easy for God to change the jagged rocks into a ball pit, or grant you the powers of flight.

[SSDynamite]

If the professor wanted a discussion (which is usually what philosophy classes involve) then there is no reason that religion should not be brought up. If someone sees it as a valid point, then that point should be addressed and not just cast aside as irrelevant or unimportant.
I can see how it could get annoying, but if this girl believes it is important then it is- just as important as everyone else's opinions.

[sunnyside]

If you were talking about, say, economics 101 or physical chemistry OK.

But you're in a freaking basic philosophy discussion class! And you're covering a text that specifically addresses religion! You shouldn't be trying to suppress someone bringing up their religion, you should be asking, I don't know, if their god being able to see the atomic structure of things matters to them at all or is it just that god must be able to do all things.

Or maybe for spicier debate just lay your cards on the table and say what you just posted here and see what happens.

[Eris]

If the professor wanted a discussion (which is usually what philosophy classes involve) then there is no reason that religion should not be brought up. If someone sees it as a valid point, then that point should be addressed and not just cast aside as irrelevant or unimportant.
I can see how it could get annoying, but if this girl believes it is important then it is- just as important as everyone else's opinions.

Though, in this case, it doesn't seem like the girl in question is using sound reasoning, which makes what she is saying little more than unwanted noise.

[Amray The II]

If your prayers can move mountains, then it would be incredibly easy for God to change the jagged rocks into a ball pit, or grant you the powers of flight.

This is more pointless than burning someone alive to prove they are human, and not a whitch.

Remember; "God does not use whitchcraft!" Did 'you-know-who' not teach you anything during his rants here?

[Dr. Hax]

I am currently enrolled in a basic philosophy class. Our current reading is that of Lucretius' "The Nature of Things." After asking our opinions on it, one girl said to the professor that she hated it because it ranted on the "evils of religion" Well what about his theory on atoms? "He called religion evil!"

To some, religion may be considered evil. Look at the Crusades, the Iraqi Jihad, and other such battles and missions. These were set into motion because the gods of their designated religions supposedly "told" them to do it as if it were a divine battle decree. However, these ideas of their God(s) telling them this really messed up their minds and soon thereafter, they became religious zealots, fighting solely for the purpose of either convert or suffer by "God's Hand". This "God's Hand" is in the form of the zealot's weapons. Religious wars drive people into lunacy and madness.


So fast forward to the next class, the professor asks us a simple question, "Is it possible to literally see the atomic structure of wheat?" Same girl, "Well, what about God, because he sees everything."

Since this is not a science-based question, I will only answer the "God" part. It sounds like this girl is a huge fan of her God. I don't know her religion so I can't say for sure. Were this the time of the Crusades, I think she would be either an advocate of her religion or one of the brutal zealots giving others of different religions an ultimatum of converting to her religion or dying.

Now getting onto the science bit, look at the Scopes Trial. It is evident that we evolved from primates. We were not created by God. She wants to bring up religion? Bring up science and evolution as a counter-argument.


Honestly, you're not helping yourself or the discussion every time you bring up God. I'm not an atheist, but I honestly think that when it comes to the classroom, religion should be brought up as little as possible, and if possible not at all. By relying on "Well God..." as an answer defeats the purpose of you learning and answering questions. Do a little more thinking, it's not that hard.

If you have the time to say "Do a little more thinking." on here, shouldn't you be able to tell this girl the very same? The only time a god or set of gods should be mentioned is either when talking about different cultures or in school that teach about that country's major religion.


This is more pointless than burning someone alive to prove they are human, and not a witch.

It was pretty cool how Buddhist monks immolated themselves alive as a demonstration though.

[SSDynamite]

Though, in this case, it doesn't seem like the girl in question is using sound reasoning, which makes what she is saying little more than unwanted noise.

Yes, what you say is true. But I mean in general. This person seems to be saying that religion should be talked about less in school... yet the point of a philosophy class is to pretty much discuss the questions and answers of the world and seeing as religion is a big issue which creates both questions and answers then there's no reason to cast those views aside.

[Eris]

Yes, what you say is true. But I mean in general. This person seems to be saying that religion should be talked about less in school... yet the point of a philosophy class is to pretty much discuss the questions and answers of the world and seeing as religion is a big issue which creates both questions and answers then there's no reason to cast those views aside.

Religion should be talked about where religion is due. In this case, the person in question seems to want to make religion the only topic. In philosophy, it is important to examine different historical and contemporary viewpoints, and if you are going to throw a fit every time one of these viewpoints is going to differ from your own, you're going to interfere with the education.

[bizou]

I think there should be a class in school completely devoted to theology. And any discussions about religion should be kept to that class and that class only.

Although this girl seems to want to attribute everything to God, she's erasing the point of learning anything. If she wants to talk about God all the time, advise her to go to a church rather than school. She'll function much better there.

[Velvet_Nightmare]

I think there should be a class in school completely devoted to theology. And any discussions about religion should be kept to that class and that class only.

Although this girl seems to want to attribute everything to God, she's erasing the point of learning anything. If she wants to talk about God all the time, advise her to go to a church rather than school. She'll function much better there.

I guess I should have mentioned I attend a Catholic university. Yeah, that's actually an important detail...

[Amray The II]

I guess I should have mentioned I attend a Catholic university. Yeah, that's actually an important detail...

....if that is the case then I assume these unlogical little outbreaks happen quite regularly, correct?

[SSDynamite]

Religion should be talked about where religion is due. In this case, the person in question seems to want to make religion the only topic. In philosophy, it is important to examine different historical and contemporary viewpoints, and if you are going to throw a fit every time one of these viewpoints is going to differ from your own, you're going to interfere with the education.

Yes, I know what you mean. But I'm not trying to say religion should be talked about all the time- I'm just saying that when someone has a point it should be taken into consideration, regardless of whether it is to do with religion or not. Then, if someone disagrees then their argument can be put forward.
Just like people shouldn't throw a fit if someone opposes their religious viewpoint, people shouldn't huff and puff every time someone mentions the big "G" word.

[Capernicus]

Then it's really your own fault that you are being offended. You are the minority, so deal with it. =3

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

If you were talking about, say, economics 101 or physical chemistry OK.

But you're in a freaking basic philosophy discussion class! And you're covering a text that specifically addresses religion! You shouldn't be trying to suppress someone bringing up their religion, you should be asking, I don't know, if their god being able to see the atomic structure of things matters to them at all or is it just that god must be able to do all things.

Or maybe for spicier debate just lay your cards on the table and say what you just posted here and see what happens.

Parts of religion are philosophy. Like the Christian idea that you should ignore slights against you (not that anyone follows that) or the Buddhist idea of Karma (in practice. In theory not so much). But the parts that this person has brought up are not philosophical in the least. They are a baseless refutation, and mythology (or theology, your choice) respectively.

The person ignored the reason of a philosopher because they said something negative about their hypothetical cloud-man. You can disagree with any philosopher you want, but you shouldn't get butthurt about everything they say simply because they disagree with your beliefs. For example, I find Pascal to be extremely relevant on some issues, even though I think he's a raving nutter that should have been institutionalized due to some of his other musings (see: Pascal's Wager (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager)).


In the other case, what does it matter if Yahweh can see wheat molecules or not? It's about as relevant to the question as pondering how many angels could fit on the head of a pin.


This is more pointless than burning someone alive to prove they are human, and not a whitch.
How is that pointless? Everyone knows witches burn because they are made of wood. Some would point out that people burn too, but that's proof of how crafty Satan is. This is why the decision to burn someone to death should only be done with the blessing of the Angry Mob. Plus, if they are actually a good Christian, they are going to heaven so you'd be doing them a favor.



Remember; "God does not use whitchcraft!" Did 'you-know-who' not teach you anything during his rants here?

1. Yahweh is all powerful.
2. The Bible says he will grant prayers, up to and including mountain moving.
3. The Reverend Mavericker informed me that Yahweh has granted everyone, including myself, the powers of prophetic visions. I know I am correct that Yahweh will magic Christians so that they don't die from cliff-jumpings, so long as they call out to him and ask him to intercede on their behalf (also works with poison (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yD_Igdn9BQ)) because Yahweh told me in a super secret vision, ergo I am correct.

[Overlord Darth Fluffles]

Yes, I know what you mean. But I'm not trying to say religion should be talked about all the time- I'm just saying that when someone has a point it should be taken into consideration, regardless of whether it is to do with religion or not. Then, if someone disagrees then their argument can be put forward.
Just like people shouldn't throw a fit if someone opposes their religious viewpoint, people shouldn't huff and puff every time someone mentions the big "G" word.

Hearing you and Eris's discussion, I thought I'd make an imput. I agree with both of you to a degree, I'm with Eris when she said the girl lacked a sound reasoning and just basically went on to assume there is a God. I also am in a Philosophy class, every time "God" is mentioned, "Well, if God were to" basically stating it in a way to where no one makes claims s/he is there or not (Even the people in my class who are religious). So making the assumption s/he is there is as what Eris described as "Unwanted noise"

However, I do agree with your view that their thought should be taken into consideration to provide an arguement back. Despite how annoying it can get, and bothersome, I'll agree into what you've had to say.

[Capernicus]

I didn't know we were allowed to cite the Reverend Mavericker here. I thought we were trying to avoid making him a martyr for the cause, since his views are so vehemently opposed by the bible.

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

I didn't know we were allowed to cite the Reverend Mavericker here. I thought we were trying to avoid making him a martyr for the cause, since his views are so vehemently opposed by the bible.
He received visions directly from god that told him he was right. I mean, who are you going to believe? The infallible Word of God as put in the Bible, or the infallibler Word of God beamed into your head when no one's looking? Certainly it's easier then trying to decide what's correct when the infallible Words of God in the Bible don't agree with other infallible Words of God also present in the very same Bible.

[Howling Star]

Well The Mavericker is gonna hate me for this. But I thought it was funny to make my six hunderd sixty six'th post here. Muhahaha

I am religious for a bit not to much but a bit. I looked at it like this. A you can say I don't believe B you can try it for a while. It's not like your having a contract etc xd.

[Dxon]

It is like jumping from atop a cliff and expecting God to catch you;
Irrelevant, unreliable, and extremely stupid.

Well that pretty much sums it all up.

I'm atheïst. :)

[Eris]

Yes, I know what you mean. But I'm not trying to say religion should be talked about all the time- I'm just saying that when someone has a point it should be taken into consideration, regardless of whether it is to do with religion or not. Then, if someone disagrees then their argument can be put forward.
Just like people shouldn't throw a fit if someone opposes their religious viewpoint, people shouldn't huff and puff every time someone mentions the big "G" word.

But this person isn't making a point. S/he's being disruptive. What s/he's doing is somewhat similar to classical skepticism. Whenever the classic skeptics saw someone discussing something, they ran up to them and bombarded them with the question "But how do you know that?" When they answered, they asked the same question, and kept at it ad nauseum. While the point of that exercise (vicious infinite regress (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_regress)) is that knowledge itself is impossible, once you come to that conclusion, you have to move on.

You can use the existence of a god to prove anything -- no matter how ridiculous, which may be a relevant point in itself (see Descartes' device "deus deceptor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_deceptor)"), but not inherently so. What the person is doing is making this point over and over again, not really contributing anything meaningful to the discussion causing disruption rather than insight.

[WolfShot]

In my honest opinion, religion is something that should be avoided in school. Seeing to the fact that many different ethnicities of many different religions attend school. I'm an Agnostic, so religion isn't really important to me but still. Religion is a rather touchy subject, since there are die-hard religious people around.

[Eris]

In my honest opinion, religion is something that should be avoided in school. Seeing to the fact that many different ethnicities of many different religions attend school. I'm an Agnostic, so religion isn't really important to me but still. Religion is a rather touchy subject, since there are die-hard religious people around.

I can't see a better reason to discuss religion in school. Naturally, it needs to be done on an abstract level, but simply leaving it alone will allow fundamentalism and other venomous ideas to fester causing trouble in the future. Much the same way fascism needs to be discussed in school.

[SSDynamite]

In my honest opinion, religion is something that should be avoided in school. Seeing to the fact that many different ethnicities of many different religions attend school. I'm an Agnostic, so religion isn't really important to me but still. Religion is a rather touchy subject, since there are die-hard religious people around.

I think it depends on what school you go to. I go to a catholic school and it's compulsory for me to take RE (religious education) all the way up to my final year. For me, it's taught me far more valuable things than all the other lessons have put together over the years I have been at that school. But I've not been taught that "God exists, Catholicism is the right way to be." I have been taught "Some people believe that God exists and catholics believe that their religion is the only fully true religion." along with aspects of other religions and a whole other load of things such as how religion (not just Catholicism) is portrayed in the media.
So what I'm trying to say is teaching religion is teaching people about these 'die-hard religious people' and their beliefs and the arguments for and against these beliefs.


But this person isn't making a point. S/he's being disruptive. What s/he's doing is somewhat similar to classical skepticism. Whenever the classic skeptics saw someone discussing something, they ran up to them and bombarded them with the question "But how do you know that?" When they answered, they asked the same question, and kept at it ad nauseum. While the point of that exercise (vicious infinite regress (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_regress)) is that knowledge itself is impossible, once you come to that conclusion, you have to move on.

You can use the existence of a god to prove anything -- no matter how ridiculous, which may be a relevant point in itself (see Descartes' device "deus deceptor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_deceptor)"), but not inherently so. What the person is doing is making this point over and over again, not really contributing anything meaningful to the discussion causing disruption rather than insight.

Yes, you're right. But surely there are the people who say "But why don't you believe that?" to the people who ask "But how do you know that?" ?
So there always going to be people who question or disagree with your opinion/beliefs. So shouldn't we accept that that is their belief and if necessary argue our own case?

[Eris]

Yes, you're right. But surely there are the people who say "But why don't you believe that?" to the people who ask "But how do you know that?" ?
So there always going to be people who question or disagree with your opinion/beliefs. So shouldn't we accept that that is their belief and if necessary argue our own case?

What they believe is entirely beside the point. In a philosophical discussion, it is justifiable homicide to stab someone in the face for basing arguments on what they believe, unless it is immediate followed by an argument why. You shouldn't open your mouth unless you have something to say that affects the discussion in general. You might as well say "I ate pancakes for lunch," relevance wise.

[SSDynamite]

What they believe is entirely beside the point. In a philosophical discussion, it is justifiable homicide to stab someone in the face for basing arguments on what they believe, unless it is immediate followed by an argument why. You shouldn't open your mouth unless you have something to say that affects the discussion in general. You might as well say "I ate pancakes for lunch," relevance wise.

In the case of the girl in question, yes her point can be seen as somewhat irrelevant to the actual question asked. But, generally speaking, if someone believes that their point is relevant and speaks it- then the other members of the conversation are entitled to their say about the other's point. However, when replying they should at least try and say why they disagree, rather than just say "You are wrong, this is what's right..."

[Capernicus]

*grabs some popcorn to watch the debate*

[Kawairashii hikari]

I agree, I believe in God and everything but, being in a philosophy class... why would you even start to bring them up? That's just wanting an argument to flare up... and if you were going to debate everytime someone says something opposite of religion, (which is basically science). Why did you enroll in the class in the first place?

[Eris]

In the case of the girl in question, yes her point can be seen as somewhat irrelevant to the actual question asked. But, generally speaking, if someone believes that their point is relevant and speaks it- then the other members of the conversation are entitled to their say about the other's point. However, when replying they should at least try and say why they disagree, rather than just say "You are wrong, this is what's right..."

Though in this case I doubt the person's motivations, it feels like s/he felt the continued discussion posed a threat to her beliefs, and therefore s/he made every attempt at sabotaging it.

But naturally, an unmotivated response is no more legit than an unmotivated proposition.

[Dr. Hax]

*grabs some popcorn to watch the debate*

You, share the popcorn.....plz.

I'm hopped up on a drug that makes it impossible for me to get angry.

[SSDynamite]

Though in this case I doubt the person's motivations, it feels like s/he felt the continued discussion posed a threat to her beliefs, and therefore s/he made every attempt at sabotaging it.

But naturally, an unmotivated response is no more legit than an unmotivated proposition.

But rather than her trying to sabotage it, couldn't she be trying to defend her (and a lot of other people's) beliefs?
But that's beside the point o.o all I'm trying to say is that if someone feels that their point/opinion would contribute to the discussion- then they should say it. This then opens up the opportunity for anyone who disagrees to say why they feel this way and then the rest of the discussion follows.

[Eris]

But rather than her trying to sabotage it, couldn't she be trying to defend her (and a lot of other people's) beliefs?
But that's beside the point o.o all I'm trying to say is that if someone feels that their point/opinion would contribute to the discussion- then they should say it. This then opens up the opportunity for anyone who disagrees to say why they feel this way and then the rest of the discussion follows.

She shouldn't defend it if it isn't being attacked, that's for him/her to figure out for themselves. What s/he is doing is quite comparable to trolling on the internets. All s/he is saying is that s/he doesn't agree, without properly motivating why (which is what is important).

Once in a while, for whatever reason -- ignorance or malicious intent -- people come around that are venomous to the environment of discussion, they don't contribute, they destroy. For the good of everyone, they need to be made aware that what they are doing is not a working strategy, and that they are ruining it for everyone.

[SSDynamite]

She shouldn't defend it if it isn't being attacked, that's for him/her to figure out for themselves. What s/he is doing is quite comparable to trolling on the internets. All s/he is saying is that s/he doesn't agree, without properly motivating why (which is what is important).

Once in a while, for whatever reason -- ignorance or malicious intent -- people come around that are venomous to the environment of discussion, they don't contribute, they destroy. For the good of everyone, they need to be made aware that what they are doing is not a working strategy, and that they are ruining it for everyone.

Yes, so they end up being told why they are not contributing.
This girl should be asked to elaborate on her point or to find a different way to contribute to the discussion. So, basically give her a chance to explain herself- if she can't then her point goes as invalid.

[Capernicus]

Oooooooo point goes to SSD! *shares popcorn and couch with Hanai Sempai*

[Dr. Hax]

Oooooooo point goes to SSD! *shares popcorn and couch with Hanai Sempai*

....and that's game!!!!

*sits with cappy and eats popcorn*

[Diocletian]

The girl is godboarding religon in the classroom.We Catholics aren't innocent. From witch hunts to the Crusades, we have killed more than most religions.I digress before someone flames me.

Church, state, and education are to be seperated and be kept on a leash to not cross over in each others' yard.

[Acnologia]

Push that girl off a cliff.

[MissAstaire]

*grabs some popcorn to watch the debate*

Yo! Caps! Can you pass the popcorn? :D

[Tsubaki Yoshikara]

Everyone has their own believes. Just let them be. I'm a free-t, I don't mind people saying about how good their gods are. I just hope that they don't say about some other religion's bad. Religions teach people to be good, they promote peace. If that girl really likes her god it just proves that she's really religious. We can't do anything about it right? Our History teacher always says "I respect your opinion,no offense, some of you might not agree with me but it's just part of the lesson and my personal opinion or knowledge got from other sites." Yeah, just mention that and people won't really think of you as a big bad person that "discriminates"religions.

EDIT:Don't go to far on this topic, its bad to stir up religion stuff, even our teachers are really careful with their words when it comes to religion stuff. andI DON'T WANNA SEE ANOTHER MAVERICKER!

[Zenni-Kun]

now im not going to get hardcore involved, i just wanna make one smart aleck remark, then im just going to watch
Religion in the classroom, even if its in a philosiphy class is totally illogical and not the best course of action to continue a discussion, if someone asked me if i wanted to see the atomic structure of wheat, id show them a few pictures of atoms....but me being possibly the only non-catholic and or christian of any kind helps out my opinions of how god is all seeing and what not......if there is ever a religious thread, i have this nice little rant on my computer that might get a few laughs

[Rem Nightfall]

Everyone has their own believes. Just let them be. I'm a free-t, I don't mind people saying about how good their gods are. I just hope that they don't say about some other religion's bad. Religions teach people to be good, they promote peace. If that girl really likes her god it just proves that she's really religious. We can't do anything about it right? Our History teacher always says "I respect your opinion,no offense, some of you might not agree with me but it's just part of the lesson and my personal opinion or knowledge got from other sites." Yeah, just mention that and people won't really think of you as a big bad person that "discriminates"religions.

EDIT:Don't go to far on this topic, its bad to stir up religion stuff, even our teachers are really careful with their words when it comes to religion stuff. andI DON'T WANNA SEE ANOTHER MAVERICKER!


People may be inclined to their opinion, but religion shouldn't be brought up in class. As some people said there are other people with different beliefs. Last time I checked religion isn't philosophy. Also last time I checked religion isn't part of school, especially in high school unless you are taking a school course on religion. Religion shouldn't be brought up in school, period.
Religions are not good and they don't teach people peace. But you're inclined to your own opinion and I understand your opinion.
I'm not trying to be rude.
I'm stating my opinion.

[Zenni-Kun]

People may be inclined to their opinion, but religion shouldn't be brought up in class. As some people said there are other people with different beliefs. Last time I checked religion isn't philosophy. Also last time I checked religion isn't part of school, especially in high school unless you are taking a school course on religion. Religion shouldn't be brought up in school, period.
Religions are not good and they don't teach people peace. But you're inclined to your own opinion and I understand your opinion.
I'm not trying to be rude.
I'm stating my opinion.

*sits on seperate chair to take notes*
actually, youre religion is exactly how i feel, ask anyone here how religion and school mix, well most schools anyway, and remember the answer you get, i bet it wont be something like "oh yeah sure, they can and should have religion in public schools, and anyone who says no is a devil worshipper." Yeah i figure the day that person's wild dreams come true, im moving out of this country.

[Rem Nightfall]

*sits on seperate chair to take notes*
actually, youre religion is exactly how i feel, ask anyone here how religion and school mix, well most schools anyway, and remember the answer you get, i bet it wont be something like "oh yeah sure, they can and should have religion in public schools, and anyone who says no is a devil worshipper." Yeah i figure the day that person's wild dreams come true, im moving out of this country.

If they bring religion into public schools, that is the day I drop out and be a homeless bum.
Because we all know bums don't have religion. Joking.
But yes, religion is not good and its doesn't teach peace.
Because this is all you hear from religion, well mostly Christian [no offense to anyone], "Believe in God or you'll go to hell." How is that peace?

I also believe the girl bringing up God in the classroom is saying it without any evidence or any plausible reason. Because in religion you only need on answer and that is God.
And once again no offense to anyone, but that is just wrong. God doesn't explain everything.
God is just way to make your life more convenient. Its so you can't figure things out on your own.
No offense to anyone.
I don't mean to be rude.
Its my opinion.

[Zenni-Kun]

If they bring religion into public schools, that is the day I drop out and be a homeless bum.
Because we all know bums don't have religion. Joking.
But yes, religion is not good and its doesn't teach peace.
Because this is all you hear from religion, well mostly Christian [no offense to anyone], "Believe in God or you'll go to hell." How is that peace?

I also believe the girl bringing up God in the classroom is saying it without any evidence or any plausible reason. Because in religion you only need on answer and that is God.
And once again no offense to anyone, but that is just wrong. God doesn't explain everything.
God is just way to make your life more convenient. Its so you can't figure things out on your own.
No offense to anyone.
I don't mean to be rude.
Its my opinion.

once again dude, youre totally correct in my eyes

[Rem Nightfall]

once again dude, youre totally correct in my eyes

Well I forgot to add that to my original post, but then that make my original post way to long and I didn't want people to skim over a long paragraph.
Short paragraphs easier for people to digest.

[Lord Fluff]

I think religion should be brought up in schools, but not just one religion, it should be all the major religions of the world. It should also be a separate class specifically for learning about these religions. I can understand why people wouldn't to learn about another religion, it will probably offend them or some other completely valid reason (not sarcasm), but immediately dismissing the idea of learning about other religion is stupid. How can you remain ignorant of what a large portion of the world's population believes in? It's asinine to willfully remain ignorant.


If they bring religion into public schools, that is the day I drop out and be a homeless bum.
Because we all know bums don't have religion. Joking.
But yes, religion is not good and its doesn't teach peace.
Because this is all you hear from religion, well mostly Christian [no offense to anyone], "Believe in God or you'll go to hell." How is that peace?

I also believe the girl bringing up God in the classroom is saying it without any evidence or any plausible reason. Because in religion you only need on answer and that is God.
And once again no offense to anyone, but that is just wrong. God doesn't explain everything.
God is just way to make your life more convenient. Its so you can't figure things out on your own.
No offense to anyone.
I don't mean to be rude.
Its my opinion.

That "Believe in God or you'll go to hell" comment seems very Puritanical to me, like you know only of church sects that are descended from Puritan churches (I know most churches in America are but still), and you applied those beliefs to every form of Christianity. This is a gross overgeneralization of the Christian faith, and besides you could say this of all religions, not just Christianity, and it would be more like "Believe in my God(s) or you go to hell (or whatever the punishment for the religion is)."

And just because it's your opinion doesn't cancel out the fact that you were in fact rude, even if you didn't mean to be.

[Daenerys]

I personally always felt that people who answered a scientific question with "God said" or "In the bible it says..."

Basing your intelligence around something you can't prove is real, or something that was written by a bunch of greedy kings eons ago, isnt really something that should ever be taught in class rooms.

Scientific proof is one thing, but saying that "God said this, so it's fact!" isnt another. You didnt hear him say this, so shut thy yap.

[tenzo_groupie]

I before I say anything, I really hope people don't take this thread too far.
Sorry, if that sounded a bit off. ok.

Anyway, it does sound to me that this particular girl is being pretty unreasonable just saying "Well God,....." during a philosophy class. (That's the message I'm getting)
But seeing as though the university attended is catholic, then yes, there will most likely religious bias in subjects relating to evolution and other similiar topics. (cant think of any at the moment) It's common.

[Rem Nightfall]

I think religion should be brought up in schools, but not just one religion, it should be all the major religions of the world. It should also be a separate class specifically for learning about these religions. I can understand why people wouldn't to learn about another religion, it will probably offend them or some other completely valid reason (not sarcasm), but immediately dismissing the idea of learning about other religion is stupid. How can you remain ignorant of what a large portion of the world's population believes in? It's asinine to willfully remain ignorant.



That "Believe in God or you'll go to hell" comment seems very Puritanical to me, like you know only of church sects that are descended from Puritan churches (I know most churches in America are but still), and you applied those beliefs to every form of Christianity. This is a gross overgeneralization of the Christian faith, and besides you could say this of all religions, not just Christianity, and it would be more like "Believe in my God(s) or you go to hell (or whatever the punishment for the religion is)."

And just because it's your opinion doesn't cancel out the fact that you were in fact rude, even if you didn't mean to be.

There are already classes based off religion. Its a religion study history and making class. Or at least that is the class I'm taking.
Some people may not want to take a religious class because they don't want God and they don't want anyone else to convert them. And that seems like trying to convert someone to Christianity or any other religion. In my class all we are doing is study the nature of religion, why religion was put here, how much religions growth is, and how plausible and likely are the events in most biblical stories to actually happen.
If you want religion in class go to a Sunday School or some other religious school. Don't bring into public school, period.


My comment was the truth. I have been to more then Puritan churches and that is all pretty much all I find. You must believe in our God, You must believe in are faith, and You must put your life in this book written 2,000 years ago. 2,000 years ago they didn't even know how to read or write. The Bible is written by a mass of many different people and if you read the Bible in true context you would see some stories conflict each other. I have also been to Churches and trust me since I haven't been religiously brainwashed, as you have, I noticed the pope talked about the same things over and over and over again. Just in different ways and people viewed him as a speaker of God.
No offense to anyone.
I just had to write down what I have observed and my opinions.
I don't mean to sound rude or if I'm trying to fight with anyone. I'm not, but I feel as you need another side.

[wolfgirl90]

The girl is godboarding religon in the classroom.We Catholics aren't innocent. From witch hunts to the Crusades, we have killed more than most religions.I digress before someone flames me.

Church, state, and education are to be seperated and be kept on a leash to not cross over in each others' yard.

You are one of the few Christians I have met in my life that have actually said that the witch hunts were wrong. Where I am from, there is still a very large population of people who would like to burn me at the stake for being a witch.

I can say that I am a religious person, since I dutifully follow the traditions of my religion. I just do not follow the Christian religion.

[Dr. Hax]

You are one of the few Christians I have met in my life that have actually said that the witch hunts were wrong. Where I am from, there is still a very large population of people who would like to burn me at the stake for being a witch.

I can say that I am a religious person, since I dutifully follow the traditions of my religion. I just do not follow the Christian religion.

They wish to call you a witch and say they want to burn you at the stake? Forgive me for being serious but nobody disses another person for their religion. Were it possible, I would defend you from any oppressors. No one harms a fellow Christian. I am not a firm follower of Christianity but I get the feeling that these people's thoughts are "tainted" by Satan's will. I believe in karma so I get the idea that these people with ill thoughts will get punished sooner or later. I had to defend myself because of religion once. It wasn't pretty as an Anti-Christian protester attacked me.

[SSDynamite]

You are one of the few Christians I have met in my life that have actually said that the witch hunts were wrong. Where I am from, there is still a very large population of people who would like to burn me at the stake for being a witch.

I can say that I am a religious person, since I dutifully follow the traditions of my religion. I just do not follow the Christian religion.

Here's another one.
The witch hunts were wrong.

[Rem Nightfall]

They wish to call you a witch and say they want to burn you at the stake? Forgive me for being serious but nobody disses another person for their religion. Were it possible, I would defend you from any oppressors. No one harms a fellow Christian. I am not a firm follower of Christianity but I get the feeling that these people's thoughts are "tainted" by Satan's will. I believe in karma so I get the idea that these people with ill thoughts will get punished sooner or later. I had to defend myself because of religion once. It wasn't pretty as an Anti-Christian protester attacked me.

If you don't follow their rules specifically they are going to punish you. It has nothing to do with the devil's thoughts, okay. It has to with follow or else.
Don't blame this on the devil's thoughts. You are the sole chooser of what you think and what you do.
To blame your thoughts and your actions on the devil is just a way to make them not responsible for their thoughts.
The same thing goes for your thoughts and actions being blamed on God its another way not to make you responsible for your actions.
Its their choice to believe she is a witch, not the devils.

[OLD ACCOUNT WORKS AGAIN]

But how does everyone feel about school work in church??? I was trying to listen to the sermon and this guy next to me kept doing his math facts. he kept asking me to solve for y.

[Dr. Hax]

If you don't follow their rules specifically they are going to punish you. It has nothing to do with the devil's thoughts, okay. It has to with follow or else.
Don't blame this on the devil's thoughts. You are the sole chooser of what you think and what you do.
To blame your thoughts and your actions on the devil is just a way to make them not responsible for their thoughts.
The same thing goes for your thoughts and actions being blamed on God its another way not to make you responsible for your actions.
Its their choice to believe she is a witch, not the devils.

Excuses never help and people must take responsibility for their own actions, right?

[loveyourfate]

Religion in the classroom, even if its in a philosiphy class is totally illogical and not the best course of action to continue a discussion

not having religion brought up in class is what would be entirely illogical.
People tend to think of Christianity or Catholicism when thinking about this... Religion is broader than just the basic religions everyone immediately thinks of, Atheïsm for example is also a religion.
Religion is also a very important part of history (so you can't teach history propery without showing the different aspects of religion).
Religion is an incredibly broad subject in which almost everyone (if not everyone) is involved. How can such a thing 'not' be brought up in class?

[Diocletian]

But how does everyone feel about school work in church??? I was trying to listen to the sermon and this guy next to me kept doing his math facts. he kept asking me to solve for y.

Without math Jesus wouldn't have known how much wine he converted from water, therefore legal.


You are one of the few Christians I have met in my life that have actually said that the witch hunts were wrong. Where I am from, there is still a very large population of people who would like to burn me at the stake for being a witch.

I can say that I am a religious person, since I dutifully follow the traditions of my religion. I just do not follow the Christian religion.

The witch hunts were useless.So what if she's a witch.Your going to kill her because she can give you a cold?

[Daenerys]

I think religion should be brought up in schools, but not just one religion, it should be all the major religions of the world. It should also be a separate class specifically for learning about these religions. I can understand why people wouldn't to learn about another religion, it will probably offend them or some other completely valid reason (not sarcasm), but immediately dismissing the idea of learning about other religion is stupid. How can you remain ignorant of what a large portion of the world's population believes in? It's asinine to willfully remain ignorant.
So religion is more important than learning how to read, write, and the basic math skills?

Seriously, religion shouldn't be taught in schools. There are special schools where you can take your kids, where they can refrain from learning how to spell great, and learning how to do math, or learning biology. I know all about those schools, because my friend went to one, and they were more into teaching him about the bible, than teaching him multiplication tables.

This guy didnt know the difference between europe and england. Until he went to public high school.

[Rem Nightfall]

Excuses never help and people must take responsibility for their own actions, right?

Yes.
And people who blame the devil or god as their thoughts are not taking responsibility for their own actions and they are making excuses.

[Monster]

I didn't read all of the replies here, but I skimmed. And most likely my reply won't be read by many either, but such is the nature of a popular forum.

Religion is a tough issue. It's tough because to be religious means to replace logic with faith - its demanded of you. Meaning every argument stemming from this premise is faith based and not logic based. So if you are arguing against logic by using faith, neither side can ever "win".

Truth, then, becomes relative, or rather, is perceived to be relative. But how can truth be relative? Hmmm. It can't. So somebody... must be wrong.

Truth exists beyond our capacity to realize it or be aware of it. It is what it is - it doesn't matter what you think or what you think is true. The truth manifests itself independently of our feeble minds.

But if you really learn about religion, and I mean really *learn* about the religion itself (ie, dont rely on your holy books as your source of info... they tend to be a little biased wink wink), people tend to either freak out and realize the fallacy of their current thinking, OR freak out and just !!!FREAK OUT!!! and cling to their comfortable beliefs anyway because they don't have the balls to accept the truth. Depends on the strength of the individual.

I won't get too far into it right now because I'm not debating anyone specifically, but if anyone wants to try me, we can have a very civilized back and forth if you want.

As far as religion/religious bias in the schools, which is the point of this thread, I would rather see people able to express whatever they want rather than be censored. I'd rather hear an opposing viewpoint than no viewpoint at all. It may change the way I think about that person, but such is the game we play when we open our mouths and make a statement.

Where the line is crossed, however, is when knowledge and truth (as close as we can get) is suppressed because it conflicts with someones already existing viewpoint. A great example is certain colleges and schools (fundamentalist christian, yes I'm talking about America) teaching students that the Earth is really only 10,000 years old and that God put dinosaur bones in the earth's crust to "test our faith."

This is far beyond education. This is indoctrination. I'm really glad I live far far away from these types of people, but the sad thing is... they are MASSIVE part of the voting population and government officials (ie uh the presidential candidates included) running for office need to drop down to their level to obtain their vote. Ignorance is DEMANDED for the sake of "faith".

[Lord Fluff]

So religion is more important than learning how to read, write, and the basic math skills?

Seriously, religion shouldn't be taught in schools. There are special schools where you can take your kids, where they can refrain from learning how to spell great, and learning how to do math, or learning biology. I know all about those schools, because my friend went to one, and they were more into teaching him about the bible, than teaching him multiplication tables.

This guy didnt know the difference between europe and england. Until he went to public high school.
I said be brought up, not taught.

I don't mean religion should be taught over other things, my meaning was more like what loveyourfate said, although I will admit my own religious views came in a little bit. But I'm not "brainwashed" as Rem said, I'm actually fairly skeptical of religion in general, and as loveyoufate said "Religion is broader than just the basic religions everyone immediately thinks of", and not speaking and learning about religions is idiotic. You can't understand where people come from if you don't know their religion because religion plays an important role in everyones lives. This is why religion should be brought into public schools, and I know that there are seperate classes for this, usually in college, but I'm saying it should be in public schools, most public high and middle schools don't offer this type of class, which produces people that are ignortant about the rest of the world.

And Rem, what you said isn't the truth, it's your conclusion based off of what you have seen, for it to be the truth then you would have to have gone to every single church and listened to every single sermon of every single priest ever, which of course impossible, and they all would have had to have said "You must believe in our God, You must believe in are faith, and You must put your life in this book written 2,000 years ago".

I am part of a very liberal Christian church, that's mostly based of Catholicism, that doesn't have views like this at all, the way the church is run is borderline blasphemy, but it is also much more tolerant of others, and we rarely discuss the Bible, instead we discuss current world events, and we don't disregard other religions, we accept them for what they are. That right there disproves your "absolute truth" that all churches say you must believe in God and the Bible. To us the Bible is a secondary thing, we focus more on the lessons it tries to teach, which are similar to other religions, we don't take the Bible as an absolute "you must follow what it says", more a here is something to help you on your way.