Americans new anime is crap, what do you think?

[Wherethebibawi]

I was watching the cartoon network and a new series of transformers was on, OMG it was so rubbish I had to change the channel. Why do the Americans do that to classic Anime.

Does anyone have ideas or examples of this?

[sa5m]

Americans created a new Transformers? I thought Transformers was all originally Japanese.

P.S. Japanese new anime can be crap too.

[~Kaiya~]

I don't like any of the newer animes are cartoon network. I think they're crap. But that's just me XP.

[Lord Fluff]

I was watching the cartoon network and a new series of transformers was on, OMG it was so rubbish I had to change the channel. Why do the Americans do that to classic Anime.

Does anyone have ideas or examples of this?

I hate that cartoon (I will not refer to it as anime, it insults anime), the character design is freakin horrible, I saw the first 10 min. of an episode, never watched it again. The story from the small amount of the episode I saw was retarded.

HORRIBLE CARTOON!!!!

[Wio]

Avatar is better than any anime I have seen. I don't know why people classify it as anime.

Some american cartoons are good and some aren't so much. I saw that one transformer cartoon and I wasn't too entertained simply because I don't like any of the original transformers: I like beast wars. That one "sonic x" cartoon was total crap. However the older one with grounder and the chicken was awesome.

[Rem Nightfall]

The good "anime":
Avatar
Storm Hawks [This show wasn't that bad]

The bad "anime":
Everything else.

Its cause anime is the most wide spread and mainstream out there. They are just trying to get part of the cash cow.

[Gjallarhorn]

You know, hundreds of anime are produced every year. Only a handful are good. Even less make it to the U.S. I think Japan does worse to anime then America ever could.

[Rem Nightfall]

I think Japan does some unique pieces of anime.
Now I might not be fond with some of the story lines, but Japanese animation is far more unique.

[zerohalo21]

Gen 1 was the only good Transformers IMO.

[Tsunami_the_Ice_Wolf]

Cartoon Network is Adult Swim, which has excellent Anime, but I won't count those.

The good American "anime":
These used to be on there... One Peice, and DragonBall Z.

Avatar
Sonic X (it's not technically on CN, but it's still an anime)

The bad... everything else

[Howling Star]

Hmm I don't know but I must say. I somehow hate all new american cartoons etc. /Anime from america. I think they should make it all drawn again. Like Animals of farthing wood it's epic. And looks nicer then nowdays cartoons. I think pc's screwed up the art a bit. xd

[Diocletian]

Because we Americans can spend money on things no one wants to watch.That's how fabulous we are *finger snaps*

[Wherethebibawi]

I hate that cartoon (I will not refer to it as anime, it insults anime)

HORRIBLE CARTOON!!!!

Isn't Anime short for Animation???
Isn't a Cartoon, Animation???
Isn't Anime a Cartoon???

Anime is Japanese Cartoons, isn't it???

My point is that the Japanese stuff has better plots, better Graphics/drawings, better stories. Overall, Japanese animation is better than American crap... most of the time...

[Kanjoudakai_Ira]

My point is that the Japanese stuff has better plots, better Graphics/drawings, better stories. Overall, Japanese animation is better than American crap... most of the time...

Gotta agree with you. I hate it when Americans or others try to copy the Japanese original anime :| Tho i did like Avatar a lot, which is not anime but made by the americans...

[Evockzi]

Isn't Anime short for Animation???
Isn't a Cartoon, Animation???
Isn't Anime a Cartoon???

Anime is Japanese Cartoons, isn't it???

My point is that the Japanese stuff has better plots, better Graphics/drawings, better stories. Overall, Japanese animation is better than American crap... most of the time...

I can't even Compare the 2 Seriously.. There is NO American Style Shows that share similar plots Animated or not.. Anime is just So much different I honestly Cannot Compare them

[Diocletian]

Isn't Anime short for Animation???
Isn't a Cartoon, Animation???
Isn't Anime a Cartoon???

Anime is Japanese Cartoons, isn't it???

My point is that the Japanese stuff has better plots, better Graphics/drawings, better stories. Overall, Japanese animation is better than American crap... most of the time...
Listen America isn't Japan.I'm not going to move to Japan just because they have better cartoons.We are completely diffrent countries.Anime isn't even a quarter of America's economy despite the conventions.{Cheap-skates}

[Sanosuke23]

Gotta agree with you. I hate it when Americans or others try to copy the Japanese original anime :|

To be fair, Samurai Pizza Cats is a thousand times more entertaining than Kyatto Ninden Teyandee, the original anime. Plus you can't even blame them for rewriting the entire thing, the folks Saban bought it off of never supplied them with transcripts.

[Bring Me The Horizon]

The only good american anime i have seen would Teen Titans if it qualifies as anime or a cartoon but yup das it :)

[Wio]

My point is that the Japanese stuff has better plots, better Graphics/drawings, better stories. Overall, Japanese animation is better than American crap... most of the time...
Better plots? Better stories?
Those are the same thing.

Also, "better story" is more fitting, when you consider that most anime is the same crap, different title.
I don't hate anime, but in reality, I understand how lame and cheesy it is. Most of all anime is just a melodrama that plays on your emotions.

American cartoons aren't much better, but they aren't worse either.

[Doctor One]

Okay, I see people seperating the terms anime from cartoons. Stop that.
Japanese cartoons arn't better than Western ones. Not to mention that western influence is what spawned Japanese comics anyway.

I saw the Transformers Animated show and I was irritated with it. But I do like Megatron's look. Though I only saw him as a disembodied head. Cool head though.
(I thought that Hasbro was an American company. And Hasbro birthed Transformers)

I do think that cartoon network is rolling downhill in quality fast. Only two good shows in the passed four years are Chowder and Flapjack.
But they are pretty funny and make up for the poor excuse for everything else on that channel.
That includes Naruto.

The fights in Avatar are pretty. The characters are funny and the voice actors sound believable. Unlike most dubbed Japanese cartoons.

[Inamorata]

Cartoons are animated objects, ect. Anime and cartoons are just ways
of identifying a drawing. Also I saw in a anime documentry that anime was inspired from the atomic war that was experienced in Japan. I'd post links, but I'm too tired. x.x

[Gjallarhorn]

Cartoons are animated objects, ect. Anime and cartoons are just ways
of identifying a drawing. Also I saw in a anime documentry that anime was inspired from the atomic war that was experienced in Japan. I'd post links, but I'm too tired. x.x

Anime as we know it today is the animated form of a branch of illustration created by Osamu Tezuka, who found inspiration/based his work on the styles of Walt Disney. The whole general style in itself has been around for centuries, but the art style we know as "anime" and "manga" is based off of old Walt Disney works.

[Sanosuke23]

(I thought that Hasbro was an American company. And Hasbro birthed Transformers)

Actually, Transformers are a product of Japanese toymaker Takara(which merged with TOMY a couple of years ago), Hasbro just distributes it internationally.

Just clearing that up.

[Cantelope]

I liked Afro Samurai. And Megas XLR.

And I always thought of Anime as the art-style, not where it came from. Otherwise, you should consider all the anime and manga from Korea/China not a part of the whole..thing.

[Diocletian]

I liked Afro Samurai. And Megas XLR.

And I always thought of Anime as the art-style, not where it came from. Otherwise, you should consider all the anime and manga from Korea/China not a part of the whole..thing.

Manwha reads left to right it's not manga is what the kids say.

[Cantelope]

and yet...it's still in the manga section at your bookstores.

[Diocletian]

and yet...it's still in the manga section at your bookstores.

That's because book lady, Catherine can't tell the diffrence between all that

Asian Crap
That's what she told me.

[Acnologia]

Animes are cartoons, they're japanese cartoons. >.> I don't know why people say stuff "Oh Anime is better than cartoons." Its ridiculous.

[rf switch]

Ah yes. Nothing like getting older only to find that new stuff just isn't the same as the old stuff. The stuff you have great memories of. The stuff that makes you feel all nostalgic... It seems to happen with everything.

Animated shows seem to have a bigger market in Japan and in the US it's still seen mainly as something for kids. Which is fine. But thats also why American animation may seem a bit stupid, juvenile, and not as deep. Although theres plenty of Japanese anime that's guilty of that as well. Kids usually don't get it if it's not. So as you get older you notice that more. But the stuff you loved when you were younger sticks with you due to nostalgia...

It also helps that alot of the crap is left behind in Japan, but if you're in the US you're gonna get all we have to offer. Both good and bad.

[Saiyan Destroyer]

Only good American anime is "Avatar: The Last Airbender" and that show had it's final epiosde. Great show, but it should NOT have ended so soon.

As for all other American cartoons: They all suck. I've seen the cartoons on saturday mornings and commercials, they all are TERRIBLE. TV has gone down hill since th e90s and 60s. I remember great shows of American Achievement like Tom & Jerry, Looney Toons, Flintsones, Jetsons, Scooby Doo, Johnny Quest, X-Men when it was a drama in the 90s was awesome.

But now? Everything sucks. Futurama, Family Guy, Animaniacs, American Dad, and Batman (When it was darker in 90s) are the ONLY good cartoons but they're all over ex ept FG & AD. Those are the ONLY good shows left on. You kids don't know what good cartoons are.

[Amray The II]

Animes are cartoons, they're japanese cartoons. >.> I don't know why people say stuff "Oh Anime is better than cartoons." Its ridiculous.


I would not go as far as that. Some people do it so that they can easily define Japanese Animations from American Animations, as anime is the Japanese word for animations and Cartoon is the American term for animated productions.

Although I use the terms "Japanimation" and "American Animation". That was because of Excel Saga.

[Wherethebibawi]

I use the terms "Japanimation" and "American Animation". That was because of Excel Saga.

I think Japanimation is probably a better term than Anime.
How about a new word Ameramation for American Cartoons.

That would clear up the whole Anime is/isn't cartoons argument.

[Memento Mori]

Hey, Japan ruined the Powerpuff Girls, so hush.

Anyway, that's just one show.

I even liked Avatar when it first came out, like Wio said, way better than any anime I've ever seen.

Also, Saiyan Destroyer, just be quiet. You think just because it came out first, it was better.

Personally, Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends is the coolest cartoon I've seen, and last time I checked, it came out just a few years ago.

ALSO, might I add?

MEGAS XLR

[wolfgirl90]

Hey, Japan ruined the Powerpuff Girls, so hush.

Well, Japan had some help in "ruining" the Powerpuf Girls...Cartoon Network themselves:rolleyes:! They produce the American Powerpuff Girls and help with the production of the Japanese version. Japan did not do it on their own.

Before I state my point, I will clear up some things. Transformers started out as a toy line in Japan but was nothing more than that over there (the toy line wasn't even called "Transformers"). The comic books, the T.V series, the entire back story (including most of the names and the different distintions of the Transformers) is entirely American. Because of this, I do not consider Transformers to be anime. It was written, produced and recorded in America. The only Japanese things about it are the toy line it was based off of and the fact that it was animated in Japan.

I can not compare American and Japanese cartoons. There are some that are good and some that are not. Some that tell a really good story while others do not. Some that really good animation while others do not. While I like anime, I can not say that American cartoons "suck". I watch American cartoons more often than anime, since I can only watch anime on certain channels on T.V and on my anime DVDs. I do watch anime on the Internet, but not too often and only on certain (legal) sites (as a note, in case some people have forgotten, watching/downloading anime on certain sites is illegal:closedeye). I just like anime better than American cartoons;).

As I have said many times before, I am more forgiving of American animation (and the lack of anime on certain channels like Cartoon Network) because I know WHY this has been happening. First, since Cartoon Network is not under control of the FCC, they have to censor themselves and with lawsuits coming out about EVERYTHING, they want to be more careful about what they show, which is way some cartoons today may be more childish than the ones you grew up with. Cartoons (unlike anime) are made for one real purpose: merchandise (with anime, this is not a concern until the series has more popularity). If a show does not sell, it isn't good for anything (4Kids has also said this about the anime they show). Second (and this is something that people just don't seem to understand) is that anime does not get good ratings. Its sad, but true. Kids seem to be attracted to the style (hence the popularity of shows like Avatar and Storm Hawks) but anime in general is no longer popular on television. Cartoon Network has cut back on the anime that they show because it does not get good ratings, which is why the only anime you see before 12a.m is Naruto and One Piece...and then only on one day of the week:closedeye.

[nickdj61789]

Slot of american anime is crap. I cant watch it but...........Avatar the Last Airbender was awesome.

[Deadeye31]

Avatar was all right, but it's not Ghost in the Shell, Trigun, Gundam or Evangelion.

Japanese anime and American cartoons are two completely different animals. They are like oranges and apples; sure, both are fruit (animated), but that's about it.

The best Japanese animes are meant to tell a story. They have only between 13 and 50 episodes with clear beginnings, middles and ends. Examples are Chobits, Elfen lied, Gundam Wing, Evangelion, Ghost in the Shell. There are a few that are good that do go over the 50 episode limit like DBZ, Inuyasha, Yu Yu Hakusho, and Bleach but these are the exeptions and there are just as many poor 50+ animes as good ones.

American cartoons are meant to be one hit wonders. Each episode is stand alone and can be viewed without needing to know any background. The best way to describe them is animated sitcoms. Jetsons and Flintstones are the two best examples. Flinstones is actually meant to be based on the sitcom Honeymooners from the 50s. Even cartoons like Batman and Superman, who have stories and backgrounds are still drawn and shot as "Villan of the day."

Good anime doesn't try to compete with cartoons, nor try to be like them. Good anime is done along the lines of a major live action motion picture. Could you really call Spirited Away, Howl's Moving Castle, or Nausicaa "cartoons"? Likewise, Ghost in the shell is far beyond any child's show or Evangelion or Trigun or even Gundam.

So don't try to degrade anime by comparing it to cartoons. Japanese anime is more comparable to miniseries and movies. Japanese live action movies tend to suck but their anime tends to be brilliant. On the other hand, Our cartoons can't compare but our live action stuff does get a few blockbusters a year.

And that's all I have to say about that.

[Memento Mori]

Also, I have one more thing to say.

For all of you who are going to argue "But japaneese animez hav bettar stroy lins!!!11!"

Well, I don't care if they have better story lines.

If an American-made cartoon is more interesting/entertaining/funny than an anime show, you're darn right that's what I'm gonna watch.

[Sanosuke23]

Whoa whoa whoa, "degrade" anime? The four anime you list are good yes, but they are four of hundreds. Those hundreds are no Daria, Rugrats, Gargoyles or even The Marvelous Misadventures of Flapjack.

Episodic format does not automatically make a show somehow lower-grade than one that tells one story over an entire season. If anything, telling a fulfilling story in one or two half-hour blocks takes MORE ability.

Don't degrade cartoons by trying to elevate anime to some sort of fine art form.

[Diocletian]

If your going to move to Japan for cartoons,oh dear lord.If I move there for a month it's because of their kick butt trash system.

[sunnyside]

I think a big part of the problem you guys are likely having is that in America generally if they're making something animated it's targeted and rather younger children.

If it's aimed at an older set they'll switch to live action. Which I believe Japan doesn't do so well with.

For example if the concepts had origionated in Japan I would expect that:

Torchwood
The Sarah Conner Chronicles
The Dresden Files
Burn Notice
Rome
Firefly
Every Star Trek


And others would likely have been done as anime. Sex in the City anime? Maybe. You get the idea.


Bottom line, if there is an idea over here that would make a great anime we'll just do it live action.



However there are some exceptions, but you aren't going to find them in with the Saturday morning cartoons.

Spawn
Boondocks
Afro Samurai
The Animatrix
Tripping the Rift
Æon Flux (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%86on_Flux)
Clerks
The Maxx

[Christ-san]

haaaaay guys :D

having been to japan, i can quite reliably inform you that most japanese people think it's hilarious that you sad westerners watch children's cartoons :D

unless you're twelve or something, in which case carry on, kiddoes :D

[ePic_eRroRs]

haaaaay guys :D

having been to japan, i can quite reliably inform you that most japanese people think it's hilarious that you sad westerners watch children's cartoons :D

unless you're twelve or something, in which case carry on, kiddoes :D

Well it's kinda sad you have nothing else to do but screw up this and several other threads. Besides you're the one looking and disturbing images and posting them on af. Just get a life where it doesn't affect anyone cause you don't have anything else to do. Go get a job or something.
Besides I have a brother in Japan and from what he tells me, anime is extremely popular over there just as it is over here. So STOP making crap up and go somewhere with you're stupid self!!!!

[Memento Mori]

butthurt :D

this is where i inform you i have a job, and that your brother is making excuses to cover up for the fact he's a massive weeaboo and he only went over there to grope schoolgirls :3

my life is fine kthxbye ;D

What are you, seven?

Insults like that got old when I was 5, so you're probably younger.

Don't know why you're lookin' at all those nasty pictures, though, at such a young age.

Anyway, a lot of anime is for adults only.

It's called hentai.

So don't say it's only for kids, when it's not.

[Diocletian]

What are you, seven?

Insults like that got old when I was 5, so you're probably younger.

Don't know why you're lookin' at all those nasty pictures, though, at such a young age.

Anyway, a lot of anime is for adults only.

It's called hentai.

So don't say it's only for kids, when it's not.

It's a troll.I'm surprised mods have PROBABLY seen this and haven't done anything.The whole I don't have a job because I like anime thing is stupid.How can I buy myself a 20 dollar box set without working?

[STi]

haaaaay guys :D

having been to japan, i can quite reliably inform you that most japanese people think it's hilarious that you sad westerners watch children's cartoons :D

unless you're twelve or something, in which case carry on, kiddoes :D
thank god someone went ninjapleazee on this fool

[Sanosuke23]

To all of you talking about Japanese live-action stuff being unpopular, it just goes to prove how little you do know.

There's a LOT of popular live-action stuff, especially dramas and soap operas. I, however, quite enjoy the tokusatsu genre and puroresu.

[sunnyside]

There's a LOT of popular live-action stuff, especially dramas and soap operas. I, however, quite enjoy the sentai genre and puroresu.

Drama and soaps sure.

But do they have anything on par with, say, Firefly.

If you don't know firefly get your digital butt over to
http://www.hulu.com/watch/4569/firefly-serenity

For hulu is free, legal, and awsome.

[ePic_eRroRs]

thank god someone went ninjapleazee on this fool
haha shut up foo. Don't be bringing up h-i on af. That is forbidden here....
but good one :D

[WolfShot]

I don't know whether I should defend american cartoons cause I live in the U.S. but.....Screw it. Now-a-day cartoons in america suck completely and I have no interest in watching them. I remember when Ed, Edd and Eddy was the major thing to watch.....so much for America being the greatest. Thanks Japan, thanks for saving me from the embarrassment of having to watch total boredom on a daily basis.

[tabby123456]

Manga and Anime are originally from japan, so i think Americans should stick to like....comic books or something, cause Batman is still the legend =]

[Sanosuke23]

Drama and soaps sure.

But do they have anything on par with, say, Firefly.

If you don't know firefly get your digital butt over to
http://www.hulu.com/watch/4569/firefly-serenity

For hulu is free, legal, and awsome.

You clearly don't understand how freakin' awesome tokusatsu is. Especially older stuff, though the new Kamen Rider where he's a vampire or something should make some of the kids around here wet their pants in glee or something.

[Deadeye31]

Whoa whoa whoa, "degrade" anime? The four anime you list are good yes, but they are four of hundreds. Those hundreds are no Daria, Rugrats, Gargoyles or even The Marvelous Misadventures of Flapjack.

Episodic format does not automatically make a show somehow lower-grade than one that tells one story over an entire season. If anything, telling a fulfilling story in one or two half-hour blocks takes MORE ability.

Don't degrade cartoons by trying to elevate anime to some sort of fine art form.

Hey, my heart heart skipped a beat too, when I heard Optimus' voice in the new movie but the point of my post was that American cartoons can't be compared to Japanese Anime because of the Episodic vs Seasons argument. Like I said, the only commonality is that both are animated.

And as for making up a story for a half-hour show, the Japanese already beat us to it. Look up "Doll" or "Canon-D" on Youtube. They are virtual animes made up in the span of a 2 minute song.

[The Nightingale]

I agree 100% America should leave Anime to the TRUE creators, Not butcher it.

Yes I know it's for younger audiences. But that makes these kids grow up on fake anime not the good kind. >_>

[Sanosuke23]

You clearly missed my point about elevating anime above cartoons being like dressing a pig in a tux and claiming it is people, so I'm not going to argue about that.


And as for making up a story for a half-hour show, the Japanese already beat us to it. Look up "Doll" or "Canon-D" on Youtube. They are virtual animes made up in the span of a 2 minute song.

Hurr hurr because Disney and Warner Bros. haven't been doing that for closer to a century than not.

[Deadeye31]

Even Tom and Jerry need a good 5 minutes to beat each other's brains out.

first, don't steal Obama's remarks. Second, you have to admit that anime is not cartoons. You are on an anime forum yet don't seem to realize that anime is not called "Japanese Cartoons" for a very good reason: they are far too serious and the ones worth watching are too adult for kids. Evangelion is not for kids, Elfen Lied is not for kids, True Tears is not for kids. Hell, who is "Girls Bravo" for if not guys our age?

That stuff people watch on saturday morning or on cartoon network at all are crap compared to the real stuff. The only reason Avatar and Bleach have the following they do is because they are all 90% of people see so they think that is good anime.

Listen people, if you want to see good anime, send me a PM. If you think Avatar is good, I'll give you a list that will boggle your mind.

[Memento Mori]

Even Tom and Jerry need a good 5 minutes to beat each other's brains out.

first, don't steal Obama's remarks. Second, you have to admit that anime is not cartoons. You are on an anime forum yet don't seem to realize that anime is not called "Japanese Cartoons" for a very good reason: they are far too serious and the ones worth watching are too adult for kids. Evangelion is not for kids, Elfen Lied is not for kids, True Tears is not for kids. Hell, who is "Girls Bravo" for if not guys our age?

That stuff people watch on saturday morning or on cartoon network at all are crap compared to the real stuff. The only reason Avatar and Bleach have the following they do is because they are all 90% of people see so they think that is good anime.

Listen people, if you want to see good anime, send me a PM. If you think Avatar is good, I'll give you a list that will boggle your mind.

Excuse me, but did you just say cartoons were crap to anime?

Alright, first of all. Anime wouldn't be here with cartoons. So hush.

Second, Elfen Lied is a terrible anime, and I wouldn't even bother spitting on a box set of it because it wouldn't be worth it.

Third, you can't say ALL anime is better than ALL cartoons. Cartoons are always going to have something better than most anime, vice versa.

[Sanosuke23]

Even Tom and Jerry need a good 5 minutes to beat each other's brains out.

first, don't steal Obama's remarks. Second, you have to admit that anime is not cartoons. You are on an anime forum yet don't seem to realize that anime is not called "Japanese Cartoons" for a very good reason: they are far too serious and the ones worth watching are too adult for kids. Evangelion is not for kids, Elfen Lied is not for kids, True Tears is not for kids. Hell, who is "Girls Bravo" for if not guys our age?

That stuff people watch on saturday morning or on cartoon network at all are crap compared to the real stuff. The only reason Avatar and Bleach have the following they do is because they are all 90% of people see so they think that is good anime.

Listen people, if you want to see good anime, send me a PM. If you think Avatar is good, I'll give you a list that will boggle your mind.

First, stop trying to be witty and political AND an obstinate beawoo at the same time(in case you weren't aware, it's censored). I was saying that just beacause you dress it up doesn't mean it isn't a pig. Just because you want to play with yourself to the thought of how "mature" and "sophisticated" the cartoons you watch are compared to the cartoons other people watch doesn't make it true, I'm afraid. They're still - surprise, surprise, CARTOONS. LOLOMGWTGDAIRYQUEENLOLOMGBBTHEQITOTARLYDIDNTJUSTCA LLANIMECARTOONSBAKABAKANEKODESU!

Second, if you think Daria or Gargoyles, both of which I mentioned earlier, are targeted towards small children, please go watch them. You probably won't like them because they don't spell their names in a language you can't read, but I'm sure you can appreciate that the themes(in the case of Daria) and the general depth and overall continuity(in the case of Gargoyles, and yes I mean all the seasons in total, story arcs and all) trump the vast majority of throwaway anime. Sane people can also appreciate and admit that they're comparable to slice of life/comedy and shounen series that are popular, but I don't hold you in this category so you can probably disregard this sentence. Before you ask again, "Girls Bravo" is for little girls, but since they are in the business of making money they add in visual cues to make creepy men buy it along with a box of kleenex.

Third, the "real stuff?" Hurr hurr hurr, look up Maus. Look up ANYTHING in the quiet world of animation festivals. THAT, my little Nihon-humping mongoloid, is the "real stuff" of western animation. That's stuff that employs actual artistic talent to tell a story visually, usually in a matter of minutes or even under one.

Fourth, and I can't believe I actually need to say this, AVATAR IS NOT ANIME. IT IS PRODUCED BY A WESTERN COMPANY. CLAIMING AVATAR IS ANIME IS LIKE CLAIMING THE BOONDOCKS OR SAMURAI JACK ARE ANIME. OR GI JOE. OR G1 TRANSFORMERS. THEY ARE NOT. Size, color, and Palantino Linotype added for emphasis, because that's standard practice for getting through to idiots.

Finally, I'm fairly certain if you gave me a list I'd have probably seen most if not all of it. I am not as ignorant as most people on the board, and I am open to any kind of artistic expression from any part of the globe. I am not claiming that western cartoons are BETTER than anime, I am caiming that they are NO BETTER than anime. There's more to that difference than more letters.


Meh, if this is a troll I'll take the bait this time, there's quite a few people on this board that would genuinely agree with such butthattery.

[Deadeye31]

I don't call Avatar an anime. But if you went by half the board members on this forum, you'd think it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Every single time someone puts up a "what's your favorite anime" topic, a good half of the people will say Avatar. I address it because the majority have seen it and think it is representative of quality anime.

But, franky, I'm getting sick and tired of your stupidity when it comes to appreciating a genuine work of art verses the saturday morning crap they show on TV these days. And before you mentions Gargoyles again like it's the almighty counter argument I grew up in the same time period as you. I loved Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (the old one), GI Joe, and even the old Ghostbusters cartoon. And recently Beast Wars and the Superman and Batman cartoons from WB. But I don't compare them to anime.

I said it in my very first post in this topic. It's like oranges and Apples. The only thing they share is that they are both animated. Anime requires different things from its creators than American Cartoons.

Let me explain it. American Cartoons requires little more than a set up, a villain reveals themself, a place to do battle is chosen and said battle occurs. And the lines are clearly drawn. The villan is the villan, the hero is the hero. They fight, the villan loses, everybody is happy.

In Anime, things are not so clear cut. Numerous examples can be found. Yu Yu Hakusho had them fight against three guys who eventually became allies. Bleach did the same thing. As did DBZ many times. A Romance anime may start between two people and one of them then moves on to another.

Anime has a story. A clear line of events. If you miss a single episode you might be lost for the next few. It begins, introduces characters, brings us through the story of those characters and gives us an actual ending. It's more like a mini-series or Movie than a cartoon series.

Anime is much more complex, it spurs our feelings, twists plots, grays the line between good and evil and does it all in a short amount of time.

You said it yourself. The animation festivals. I've seen the stuff that comes out of them and they are quite interresting as well. I saw a great animated spawn series on HBO some time back too. But I won't call them cartoons either because a "cartoon" is not just something animated. Unless that is your deffinition which would be wrong.

The term "Cartoon" also encompasses those one frame political drawings you see in the paper. Here is a LINK (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cartoon) to the deffinition of a "cartoon". Does that deffinition describe Evangelion, Ghost in the Shell or Gundam Wing? I don't think so and therefore I don't call Anime "Cartoon". I leave cartoons for kids and gag writers and Anime for those who want serious entertainment.

Another way to describe it is comics vs Novels. Cartoons are like comics and are often based on them. Anime is like a novel and almost plays like one. Comics don't want to be novels or they'd be novels. Novels don't want to be comics or they'd have drawn stuff. The same goes for American cartoons and Anime. They can't be compared because they neither side wants to be the other. At least, the serious animes don't want to be cartoons though there are a lot of animes on saturday morning slots these days.

[Sanosuke23]

I'd bother with the rest of what you said, but then we'd just be talking in circles, and you obviously can't hear me with your head so far up Japan's rear end so it'd be moot. I will, however, address this:


The term "Cartoon" also encompasses those one frame political drawings you see in the paper. Here is a LINK (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cartoon) to the deffinition of a "cartoon". Does that deffinition describe Evangelion, Ghost in the Shell or Gundam Wing? I don't think so and therefore I don't call Anime "Cartoon". I leave cartoons for kids and gag writers and Anime for those who want serious entertainment.

Main Entry: animated cartoon
Function:noun Date:1915 : a motion picture that is made from a series of drawings, computer graphics, or photographs of inanimate objects (as puppets) and that simulates movement by slight progressive changes in each frame




from here. ( http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/animated+cartoon) No I don't suppose that sounds like anime at all, seeing as how anime is clearly made by taking an epic poem and performing ancient shinto rituals to create moving depictions of the tale for all to see and be moved as if touched by god.

[Deadeye31]

So a cartoon is a cartoon is a cartoon. There is apsolutely no difference between Tom and Jerry and Ghost in the shell? Well, I'm glad that cleared things up. Man, was I so wrong to think that serious plot, serious characters and serious emotions shouldn't be bunched together with two animals that beat each others' brains out in 5 minute intervals. God, what was I thinking? I'm sorry I appreciate serious works of art. It won't happen again.

[Cantelope]

So a cartoon is a cartoon is a cartoon. There is apsolutely no difference between Tom and Jerry and Ghost in the shell? Well, I'm glad that cleared things up. Man, was I so wrong to think that serious plot, serious characters and serious emotions shouldn't be bunched together with two animals that beat each others' brains out in 5 minute intervals. God, what was I thinking? I'm sorry I appreciate serious works of art. It won't happen again.
But...what about anime like Gintama, Shin-chan, Azumanga Daioh, Lucky Star, and so forth? There's next to no plot at all in any of those, and you can hardly consider it serious.

I'd agree with work of art though.

[Deadeye31]

You've heard of the terms A, B, and C ratings when it comes to movies. Like a Summer blockbuster has a bigger budget and bigger stars than a Sci-Fi channel movie so they are ranked appropriately. Well the same is true in animation. It may be a funny show, but the show doesn't rank as high because the budget, plot line and characters aren't as good. Sure, you get a laugh or two and may enjoy it (though I hate sci-fi channel level stuff) but Chin Chan is no Ghost in the Shell or Evangelion.

To use an analogy, why do you have Iron Man as your avatar? because that scene rocked genuinely. But you don't pick a scene from a made-for-TV movie because those scenes are of much less quality.

[Sanosuke23]

You've heard of the terms A, B, and C ratings when it comes to movies. Like a Summer blockbuster has a bigger budget and bigger stars than a Sci-Fi channel movie so they are ranked appropriately. Well the same is true in animation. It may be a funny show, but the show doesn't rank as high because the budget, plot line and characters aren't as good. Sure, you get a laugh or two and may enjoy it (though I hate sci-fi channel level stuff) but Chin Chan is no Ghost in the Shell or Evangelion.

To use an analogy, why do you have Iron Man as your avatar? because that scene rocked genuinely. But you don't pick a scene from a made-for-TV movie because those scenes are of much less quality.

So because you picked out, like, five shows that are the "A" list, you've decided that those five elevate EVERY SINGLE ANIMATION FROM JAPAN, WHICH IS THE DEFINITION OF ANIME, to the "A" list? Because that is basically what you're saying.

Before you go into "well I don't consider Bleach REAL anime hurr hurr," it really doesn't matter what your definition of anime is, since you're the only one who defines it as such.

I could go into how even your holy grails are in fact based on one of three or four fairly cliche and obvious plotlines and just happened to have an art team and gimmick that stuck, but then that gets into the realm of flat-out bashing anime and I'm not trying to do that.

[Amray The II]

People, there will always be two sides of an argument and one-sided opinions. Opinions and facts are very different things.

Elfen Lied - Japanimation.

Avatar - American Animation.

Anyone argue? No you cannot, because it is fact based knowledge. People refer to anime as Japanimation, whereas some know Anime to be the Japanese term for "Animated Productions" which is correct. Although various people use the term "anime" to refer to Japanimation because it is a word from the Japanese language. Yes, one can define an American Animation with the word "Anime" if they really wish to, although the people that refer to anime only being Japanimation will always argue back.

If people used the correct terms then communication would be a lot easier on this planet, but I suppose that is too much to ask.

[jtdlives]

I'm sorry but elfon lied Rocks and is better than anything america has ever put out in my opinion. You say girls bravo is for little girls. That is like saying American Pie is for little kids. I wouldn't let my ten year old watch that series. No! Girls Bravo is defiantly for adults. I stlill think American cartoons are crap.:banghead:

[Sanosuke23]

@Kajiwara: Even so, Japanimation is an extremely broad term, and saying that the difference between Ghost in the Shell and Tom & Jerry is what makes Japanese animation better than American animation across the board is ludicrous. That'd be like me comparing Transmetropolitan and a cheesy paperback romance novel and using that as evidence to say ALL comic books are better than ALL novels.

@jtdlives: I mixed up GB with something else, mea culpa. But it's shounen. Young boy. Generally teens. AP is 18+.

[Amray The II]

@Kajiwara: Even so, Japanimation is an extremely broad term, and saying that the difference between Ghost in the Shell and Tom & Jerry is what makes Japanese animation better than American animation across the board is ludicrous. That'd be like me comparing Transmetropolitan and a cheesy paperback romance novel and using that as evidence to say ALL comic books are better than ALL novels.

Yes, I definitely agree with you. Comparing a silly and unlogical childrens American Animation to a mature themed animated Japanimation production is just plain stupid and unfair.

What I meant was that if people simply used the terms "Japanimation" and American Animation" then there would be less arguments to the term "Anime". Then all this "can i cartoon be clased as a anime?" crap would end. That was all I was getting at.

[Sanosuke23]

WE ARE IN AGREEMENT THEN. LET US FEAST AND DRINK DEEP THE CUP OF UNDERSTANDING.

@jtdlives, Part 2!: Also, in the future please avail yourself of the edit button. Double posting is frowned upon on this forum.

[Diocletian]

But...what about anime like Gintama, Shin-chan, Azumanga Daioh, Lucky Star, and so forth? There's next to no plot at all in any of those, and you can hardly consider it serious.

I'd agree with work of art though.

Gintama is slowly developing a plotline.You haven't been paying attention.NU NU NU!


Anime is from Japan.You can consider an American created piece inspired like a manga, but that's about it.The creators never called it anime.You guys brought that on yourself.

[Deadeye31]

@Kajiwara: Even so, Japanimation is an extremely broad term, and saying that the difference between Ghost in the Shell and Tom & Jerry is what makes Japanese animation better than American animation across the board is ludicrous. That'd be like me comparing Transmetropolitan and a cheesy paperback romance novel and using that as evidence to say ALL comic books are better than ALL novels.

@jtdlives: I mixed up GB with something else, mea culpa. But it's shounen. Young boy. Generally teens. AP is 18+.

Did you ever think there was a reason I mentioned specific animes or did you think "He's an anime fan, he must think ALL anime is better than American"?

This is why I hate getting into these arguments. People start to generalize and make assumptions that are all completely wrong. I especially hate the almighty ones that come out of the woodwork thinking they know it all.

Listen, what are you trying to argue? That not all anime is good? You don't think I know that? go back and reread my posts. When I mention animes, I mention specific ones. I know they run the gambit from good to bad just like American cartoons and I myself actually don't like Shin Chan. I didn't like Digimon and only sort of like Pokemon because of nostalgia but I haven't seen a new one of those in months nor plan to see a new episode ever. And I will not watch saturday morning anime at all, if I can help it.

So is Japan generally better than American? I think it depends on what you've seen. I've seen the ones that get popular and the A list ones and they are all better than most movies and series I see in the US. Ghost in the Shell is 100X better than Law and Order in my opinion and the whole thing is only 50 episodes and a movie.

My whole argument is to not bunch up the A list animes with the rest of the animated world. These are genuine attempts at great productions and they should be set aside from the episodic good vs evil stuff we see in American cartoons.

You want to call them cartoons, fine. But at least admit that Ghost in the Shell, Evangelion, Gundam Wing and the other A list animes are a different league from Fairly Oddparents, Flapjack and Spongebob.

[Sanosuke23]

I don't know what crack YOU'RE smoking, because from where I'm sitting you're using those few as examples and then making a blanket statement about all anime being degraded by being called cartoons.

Now it seems like you're backpedaling in order to not look like a rabid beawoo and saying "Oh, I meant only those."

No wonder you hate getting into arguments about this, you suck at it.

[Deadeye31]

Aparantly it's not as good as what you have Mr. has to give themself a Japanese name just because the forum is about anime and use terms like Beawoo like some know it all ***.

You want a list of animes I've seen? here:
Gundam Wing
Ghost in the Shell: SAC
Evangelion
Chobits
Onegai Teacher and twins
Vampire Knight
DBZ
G Gundam
Z Gundam
Tenchi Muyo
Trigun
Full Metal Alchemist
Girls Bravo
Cowboy Bebop
Outlaw Star
Trinity blood
Blood Plus (some)
Death Note
DBZ
Yu Yu Hakusho
Kimi ga Nozomu Eien
AH! My Goddess!
True Tears
Last Exile
This Beautiful Yet Ugly World
Princess Mononoke
Nausicaa of the valley of the wind
Spirited Away
Castle in the Sky
Howl's Moving Castle

and I'm sure I missed a few.

And to generalize, yes, they are ALL (except maybe Tenchi) better than ANYTHING I have seen come out of the United States in the animated department.

[Gjallarhorn]

The two of you are going to be stopping this arguement if it is going to turn into flaming. I'd suggest you be a little "nicer".

[Sanosuke23]

Yes but see, no matter how much more you like it it isn't somehow automatically superior. In fact, I can argue that by removing one random gimmick I can fold your list there down to maybe seven or eight stories with maybe twice as many characters. The only thing that separates them is a catchphrase or two and a different artist.

Popular anime, like most televised anything, is basically Colorforms. It really isn't "deep" or "sophisticated."

As for Miyazaki, I counter with Don Bluth.

Sorry, Xero. :x

[Deadeye31]

I've been thinking and I don't think the argument really is about which is superior in a one to one setting. I think it's more an argument about demographics.

God bless the guys who made GI Joe, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and all the other cartoons we grew up watching. They were great....when we were kids. But I'm an adult now, as are you and many other people in this forum. And as an adult, I want different things. I don't want a clear cut good vs evil. I want adult situations, adult emotions, adult plot, deeper colors, and more realism. And the only place to get that is unfortunately Anime.

As long as Venture Brothers and Metalacolypse are the execption to the rule in America that animated productions are only for kids, I have to go overseas. It's an unfortunate fact. Not an opinion but a fact that the widespread belief is that cartoons are for kids and anime is just japanese cartoons.

[Amray The II]

All countries are different. Japan is a country that just happens to enjoy much more maturer themes than that of America. It is true that America do make more child aimed animations because they care deeply about the way their young grow up, but I do not see Japanese children killing eachother or having ninja style fights with shurikens and such. It is just adaption.

Here in Britain common channels sometimes put 18+ movies on at just 3PM. In America that is probably counted as a sin. We all have our own cultures and enjoyable themes. Japan happen to be amazing at producing amazing adultic animations that have become famous worldwide that even children watch. Hellsing here is a 15+. In Japan it is what we know as a PG. (Parental Guidance) which is the second to lowest certificate that is given here.

[Sanosuke23]

I've been thinking and I don't think the argument really is about which is superior in a one to one setting. I think it's more an argument about demographics.

God bless the guys who made GI Joe, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and all the other cartoons we grew up watching. They were great....when we were kids. But I'm an adult now, as are you and many other people in this forum. And as an adult, I want different things. I don't want a clear cut good vs evil. I want adult situations, adult emotions, adult plot, deeper colors, and more realism. And the only place to get that is unfortunately Anime.

No, really? Yeah of course there's more widespread adult animation in Japan compared to America, that wasn't the argument to begin with. It was one of maturity and sophistication. For example, you claimed that there were series that lacked any kind of themes an adult would be able to appreciate as an adult. This is not true, and I cited Daria for that because it's aimed at older teens/early twenties and as a slice-of-life/comedy series we can relate to a fair number of situations the show uses. As for depth and continuity, I cited Gargoyles. Have you ever gone back and watched that now? It's got a lot more going for it than you probably remember. Good and Evil AREN'T so clear cut in a lot of the cases there. They make a good number of recurring villains pretty fleshed out, and they deal with characters who are more shades of gray than black or white.

What I think the problem is, is that like many others you think violence, gore, profanity, and sex equals a mature, sophisticated story. This is not the case. Yes it's mature, but it's mature in the same way porn is mature. Kids shouldn't really watch it, but it isn't exactly going to enrich your life after watching it.


As long as Venture Brothers and Metalacolypse are the exception to the rule in America that animated productions are only for kids, I have to go overseas. It's an unfortunate fact.

To be fair I think mainstream animation in this country is dying out. The fact that Williams Street has so far ignored the fans demanding they make more Korgoth of Barbaria and instead flooded their programming block with TIM AND GODDAMNED ERIC CRAP shows that most companies are looking for cheap and easy more than quality. Cartoons are dying out, being replaced by what basically amounts to fifteen minutes in Flash.


Not an opinion but a fact that the widespread belief is that cartoons are for kids and anime is just japanese cartoons.

You see where I bolded it? Do you see? Here, I'll add an underline:


Not an opinion but a fact that the widespread belief is that cartoons are for kids and anime is just japanese cartoons.

RIGHT THERE IS THE GODDAMN PROBLEM WITH YOUR ARGUMENT HERE. You seem to think that because they're targeted at kids or families, that the majority of American cartoons are somehow lower than Japanese cartoons. THEY ARE NOT. THEY ARE ALL CARTOONS.

That sentence up there in quote tags is what we like to call a "blanket statement," in that it covers an issue in a very broad and general manner, like throwing a blanket over it. ALL anime is not Neon Genesis Evangelion. There are hundreds of anime that are so unbelievably throwaway we in the US will probably never see them. Even if we do, they're so vapid and uninteresting we won't care.

Compare that to The Marvelous Misadventures of Flapjack, which AT SURFACE LEVEL is aimed at children. However, did you ever stop to think about how and why they use "candy" to represent most of the seedier aspects of pirate/adventurer life like alcohol, drugs, sex, etc.? Have you ever taken a look at the West episode, and appreciated the hallucination scene as the psychedelic trip it is?

Hell, even CHOWDER has little nuances you probably kind of ignore because it's brightly colored and nobody drops the F bomb. Schnitzel is the most accurate depiction of an adult in cartoons EVER. He hates his job. he's got a hobby he likes but keeps separate from his work acquaintances, he goes out after work to relax, and he finds having to babysit his boss's kid a hassle because it isn't in his job description but he does it anyway because he needs the job. Compared to hot robot chick in the military or wacky harem series #238174863910, that's much more "sophisticated."

However, unlike you I don't treat it all as SERIOUS BUSINESS where one has to be clearly above the other. I can appreciate the nuances and good qualities of both without having to classify them as Japanese and American.

They're all just cartoons, dude.

[Deadeye31]

That's the problem. I don't want Chowder. I Don't want Gargoyles.I don't want drama or archetypes dressed up in flashy colors. I want realism. I want to see real friggin human beings! I want to see a sexy Cyborg who kicks butt and demands the admiration of all around her. I want to see how 5 kids deal with the power to annihilate space stations the size of cities. I want to see the drama that occurs when a guy can't get up the courage to tell a girl he loves her.

I don't want flashy colors. I don't want sponges or starfish or fairies or whatever the hell they are in Chowder's world. I want HUMAN FRIGGIN BEINGS! I don't want candy to be a metaphor for drugs. If the guy wants to smoke, let him friggin smoke! :curses:

In short, I don't want make believe characters and animals that skirt the line. I want to see human beings who go over and deal with the consequences. I want to see death, desctruction, emotion and how REAL human beings deal with it. I want it Rated R and in my face, not G and metaphored to all hell. :angry1:

[Gjallarhorn]

That's the problem. I don't want Chowder. I Don't want Gargoyles.I don't want drama or archetypes dressed up in flashy colors. I want realism.

You must really hate most pre-90s anime, then. And most anime in general. Realism, and a lack of flashy colors is pretty far and few between. It's just that those far and few between series are the ones that get popular here in the West.

[Zycolette]

Well, it must be agreed that everyone has their own opinion. As soon as everyone realizes that I can begin to explain my own opinion.

I think that Japan does create some really great anime(RIP Osamu Tezuka) and cartoons. America does too in another form. These two are very different and should not be mixed up with one another. I'm implying that American's should not make a cartoon based on a Japanese shows. Neither should the Japanese. Well, not just the Japanese but any other countries.

[Sanosuke23]

That's the problem. I don't want Chowder. I Don't want Gargoyles.I don't want drama or archetypes dressed up in flashy colors. I want realism. I want to see real friggin human beings! I want to see a sexy Cyborg who kicks butt and demands the admiration of all around her. I want to see how 5 kids deal with the power to annihilate space stations the size of cities. I want to see the drama that occurs when a guy can't get up the courage to tell a girl he loves her.

I don't want flashy colors. I don't want sponges or starfish or fairies or whatever the hell they are in Chowder's world. I want HUMAN FRIGGIN BEINGS! I don't want candy to be a metaphor for drugs. If the guy wants to smoke, let him friggin smoke! :curses:

In short, I don't want make believe characters and animals that skirt the line. I want to see human beings who go over and deal with the consequences. I want to see death, desctruction, emotion and how REAL human beings deal with it. I want it Rated R and in my face, not G and metaphored to all hell. :angry1:

Congratulations on using descriptions to negatively describe cartoons that describe most anime for the third time in this thread.

Also, congratulations on failing to make the connection that the anime YOU like and gravitate to is not indicative of ALL anime.

A third congratulations for failing to understand that you've been arguing that anime IN GENERAL is superior to American cartoons, which is just silly.

Finally, congratulations on wanting REAL people out of DRAWN entertainment.

I think I've made my point in this thread as much as I possibly can. Anything further would be like clotheslining a paraplegic.

[Memento Mori]

Deadeye31: You seem to think that just because it's from America, and not Japan, it's automatically kiddish, immature, and not worth watching past the age of 14.

Then you argue that anime is superior to it. And don't say you're not, because this entire time, you've been talking about how great anime is, and how cartoons are made with little effort.

First of all, I repeat this.

Anime was cartoon's baby.

So, basically, anime came from cartoons, if you think of them as two different things.

Japan just used a different style with it.

Second, anime is not superior to cartoons.

There will always be a cartoon that is better than a lot of anime, while there will always be an anime better than a lot of cartoons.

Why do I have to repeat myself?

Because you obviously don't get it.

Stop looking at anime like it's some grand form of unique artwork that deserves to rule the world, despite it not being a real person.

[Amray The II]

Anime was influenced from animations from Russia, Germany, France, and America. So this places as a major fact in the production and history of Japanimation. Although that is not to say that Japanimation would not exist at all to this day if other countries did not produce animation. But obviously it still would have taken a lot of years for them to begin with the idea. That can be said for many other countries too though. It is just that some parts of Europe and the United States happened to think of it first. I am sure that if Japan thought of it first then they would still have the same unique style that they have now, but I admit that that is just my own opinion. All countries produce animation with their own style, excluding the "Japanese influenced cartoons" produced in America. That is something that I still do not understand.

[Deadeye31]

What are you guys defending? I mean, is a 15 year old cartoon about Gargoyles and Chowder all we got? And those are suppose to compare to anything out of Japan? And don't get me started on Disney. They dropped the ball after they went CG only. Nowadays all they've got is Kung Fu panda and this space monkey movie.

IF you know of any serious attempts as something along the lines of the animes I've mentioned throughout this topic, then by all means let me know. Otherwise get this, it may not be superior just because it's from Japan, but Just because we make cartoons too doesn't mean we are just as good.

[Memento Mori]

Japan has a lot of crap, too, you know. O_o

Now you're acting like it's a superior country, or something.

Chowder and Gargoyles isn't all we ever had, if you're really that ignorant.

Avatar is a pretty deep show, Megas XLR was epicly awesome that still had a storyline, Samurai Jack was awesome, all from AMERICA.

We have our shows, and Japan has their's.

HOW many times must I repeat myself?!

[Sanosuke23]

When you're using NGE and Yu Yu Hakusho as arguments you lose the right to complain about how old a show I mention is, tbh.

[Deadeye31]

oh yeah, Samurai Jack. Yeah, that was awesomeness on paper. Almost forgot how much I loved that show though I never got to see the ending. Why can't we have more stuff like that?

[Sanosuke23]

Because Genndy Tartakovsky hates happiness.

[wolfgirl90]

You've heard of the terms A, B, and C ratings when it comes to movies. Like a Summer blockbuster has a bigger budget and bigger stars than a Sci-Fi channel movie so they are ranked appropriately. Well the same is true in animation. It may be a funny show, but the show doesn't rank as high because the budget, plot line and characters aren't as good. Sure, you get a laugh or two and may enjoy it (though I hate sci-fi channel level stuff) but Chin Chan is no Ghost in the Shell or Evangelion.

To use an analogy, why do you have Iron Man as your avatar? because that scene rocked genuinely. But you don't pick a scene from a made-for-TV movie because those scenes are of much less quality.

While its true that movies are often ranked based on the amount of money spent, that does not automatically make the higher budget movies of higher quality or more popular than those that took less money to make.

In fact, with that argument, you have made anime look like crap compared to American cartoons. Despite what you may see, anime does not have a higher animation budget than an American cartoon. It is actually much less than you think. It takes more money to make an episode of Spongebob Squarepants than it does to make episodes of most anime.

Anime is a form of "limited animation", which means that things such as shadows and light and camara tricks are used to trick the viewer into believing that more movement is happening than what is really there. The same technique is used in low-budget Saturday morning cartoons;).

[Deadeye31]

But some how they manage to pull it off. If they did that for Ghost in the Shell, I don't care. Gundam Wing recycled a lot of footage but I think it was still awesome.

I don't really have anything against American made stuff. I just wish we had more animation like the ones from Japan. Though that would be both a blessing and a curse. It would be a curse in that Anime wouldn't be all that special anymore but a blessing that we get serious entertainment instead of all the slapstickery we have nowadays.

If there is one thing that can't possibly ever compare. Japanese Anime openings ROCK. I can't do it. I can't hate a single one of them. From Ghost in the Shell's Rise to Gundam Wing's Rythm emotion. It's simply incredible. The music seems to always fit PERFECTLY. It's the one flawless thing about anime: the music they use is both apropriate and extremely memerable.

[jtdlives]

I think we all just have to agree to disagree. By the way I'am looking forward to the new stars cartoon on cartoon network though it is in cgi. I still think anime is better.

[WolfShot]

I think we all just have to agree to disagree.

Unfortunately that's not how the world works. You can't quite agree and disagree at the same time [It's almost like putting oil in water and expecting the two to mix perfectly]. America and Japan will show what they both want to show, I will truthfully admit though that american cartoons are nothing like they used to be [ Ed, Edd and Eddy, Megas XLR (Thanks for the reminding Mori) and Pokemon (Use to be awesome) And Digimon]. But on another note Cartoons and Anime are different [Just cause they're both on paper doesn't mean a damn thing]. That's all for now, read and enjoy.

[Memento Mori]

Unfortunately that's not how the world works. You can't quite agree and disagree at the same time [It's almost like putting oil in water and expecting the two to mix perfectly]. America and Japan will show what they both want to show, I will truthfully admit though that american cartoons are nothing like they used to be [ Ed, Edd and Eddy, Megas XLR (Thanks for the reminding Mori) and Pokemon (Use to be awesome) And Digimon]. But on another note Cartoons and Anime are different [Just cause they're both on paper doesn't mean a damn thing]. That's all for now, read and enjoy.

It is true the quality of American cartoons this generation has gone downhill, but so has the quality of anime.

I have yet to see a more recent anime with a good story, not too many cliches, and good animation.

[Zombiliciouss]

The truth is: there will always be two sides of a coin. Some people will think american anime blows, some will think it is great. You are reading too much into his post shadow (no offense)

My opinion: American cartoons DO blow these days. I remember when they use to be good; but I respect other people's opinions

[Ai Hayakawa]

I hate that cartoon (I will not refer to it as anime, it insults anime), the character design is freakin horrible, I saw the first 10 min. of an episode, never watched it again. The story from the small amount of the episode I saw was retarded.

HORRIBLE CARTOON!!!!

You would be referring to Transformers:Animated... It would be more of an animated cartoon than Anime right?

[Sanosuke23]

It is true the quality of American cartoons this generation has gone downhill, but so has the quality of anime.

I have yet to see a more recent anime with a good story, not too many cliches, and good animation.

This. Everything kind of sucks in comparison to older stuff.

Actually now that I say that, if you compare Japanese and American stuff from the same time periods they're pretty similar quality.

[Amray The II]

It is true the quality of American cartoons this generation has gone downhill, but so has the quality of anime.

It depends. Kyoto Animation's animation is absolutely beautiful. On Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu (no, I am not using it because it is popular, so don't start complaining) the animation was incredible, not to mention the character designs and plot, and that anime is as recent as they come. The story was nothing amazingly in-depth but it was interesting. Unfortunetly people down-grade anime's that are popular these days because they are so overrated. I thought I would give this anime a try because I love all of the genres in which it had and I found it amazing.


I have yet to see a more recent anime with a good story, not too many cliches, and good animation.

Watch Black Blood Brothers if you have not done so already. Animation is decent, voice acting is superb, very recent, the Opening song is done old style, and it shows vamipric events that have not been shown on any other vampire anime that I have seen. The plot is also very in-depth and amazing. There is a majority of back tracking to the story tracing back to the early 19th century so that you can see more of what has happened and why the events that occur are happening in the present.

No clichés. Well..maybe one or two but that is it. Most of the anime is very unexpecting.

[Sanosuke23]

@Kajiwara: The secret to Haruhi's success is that it's based on a novel series. From what I'm told the books are more elaborate, and they kinda reverse-engineered the show into something more palatable for mainstream television.

Come to think of it, if someone did the same to, say, Harry Potter, I wonder how it would come out?

[Kagome]

Maa...quite the argument here...

While I will take no stand either way on whether anime from Japan is or isn't cartoons, I will say that the majority of American animation has been thrashed in by Japanese animation. If you look at nearly all of what is considered "good" American animation of today-you'll find that a *lot* of it has Japanese influences.

Gargoyles-though a late 90's Disney animation-(and undoubtedly my FAV show in its day) if you look in the credits you will see Japanese artist names within them! Lyke OMG NOWAI! It's true, however.

Avatar-Although *everyone* agrees it's not Japanese animation, it quite *obviously* reflects the popular art styles of the Japanese.

Power Puff Girls, Transformers, the new TMNT, the new X-men series' same deal. Whether we like it or not-American animators have gotten lazy and gone down from the great stuff it once had. I.E. Looney Tunes, Tail Spin, Doug, Rocco's Modern Life, Duck Tales, Darkwing Duck, Freakazoid, Batman the Animated Series, Superman, the Amazing Spider-Man etc... Pretty much everything early 90's and before was when American made animation was GOOD. Now-it relies far too much on our friends from across the pacific ocean.

And that's my two cents for now...>.>

[Diocletian]

Cave drawings will always surpass anime AND cartoons.

Silly bull there were homo-sapiens on the other side!You better hide!

That story is original.

[Zenni-Kun]

I've always lived by.......If it comes from Japan, THEN its anime, if it comes from America its Cranime (C***+ Anime)..........because americans positivly suck when it comes to trying to recreate japanese anime

[dream magician]

Hmm, concerning that, i do admit some anime of American production is with less quality in drawing compared to the Japanese.
But then, we never know in time.

[Sanosuke23]

Not to beat a dead horse or anything, but the [as] thread in Misc. got me thinking.

Deadeye, what about Duckman? The Brothers Grunt? The Maxx? Pretty much everything from MTV's old Liquid Television block? Those were pretty "mature," by your definition.

[Memento Mori]

I've always lived by.......If it comes from Japan, THEN its anime, if it comes from America its Cranime (C***+ Anime)..........because americans positivly suck when it comes to trying to recreate japanese anime

Whoa, you're an incredibly ignorant person. Must I bring up AGAIN, Avatar, Ben 10, Megas XLR, etc., etc. I don't like any of those but Megas, but I don't flat out say they suck. You're just being another kid who thinks Japan is "OMGROFLBESTCOUNTRYEVER!11!!!1"

[Sanosuke23]

Mori: Two things.

First, <3.

Second, Ben 10 isn't so bad, but that Alien Force monstrosity has absolutely zero redeeming qualities.

It's like Ninja Turtles: Fast Forward. Sure TMNT(the new one) is really good and true to the original Eastman & Laird work, but FF is absolute crap.

Then again, so is DBGT and almost all filler material ever, so I guess it's just a question of quality vs. commercialism.

[Deadeye31]

I watch very little of American Television as it is, I'm not going to waste my time even looking at MTV when I look at the on screen guide, so I really wouldn't know. But it's not about being mature that brings me in.

Sure, I like that there's more apparant maturity in anime but that's really only about half the reason I watch it. The other half is the story. If Elfen Lied was just about a naked girl who killed people, like 99% of American horror movies then I wouldn't give it the time of day. But the story behind the "monster", the love, the misunderstanding. It made me look past the bloodshed and I saw a girl who really just wanted to be accepted and have a friend. And that's what made it great.

I get my laughs, too, watching family guy and Simpsons and, yes, even occationally spongebob because there are some hilarious scenes. But what puts me over the top for a show is story. a Cohesive beginning, middle and end with characters that are complex and memerable and it's not drawn out (Though it should leave you wanting more).

[Amray The II]

Just here to point out....just because you don't like a programme, or anything similar, does not make it crap.
I was not pointing that statement at anyone..okay Zenni? ..Actually, I was. But it was not just Zenni either.

[Sanosuke23]

I watch very little of American Television as it is, I'm not going to waste my time even looking at MTV when I look at the on screen guide, so I really wouldn't know. But it's not about being mature that brings me in.

Sure, I like that there's more apparant maturity in anime but that's really only about half the reason I watch it. The other half is the story. If Elfen Lied was just about a naked girl who killed people, like 99% of American horror movies then I wouldn't give it the time of day. But the story behind the "monster", the love, the misunderstanding. It made me look past the bloodshed and I saw a girl who really just wanted to be accepted and have a friend. And that's what made it great.

I get my laughs, too, watching family guy and Simpsons and, yes, even occationally spongebob because there are some hilarious scenes. But what puts me over the top for a show is story. a Cohesive beginning, middle and end with characters that are complex and memerable and it's not drawn out (Though it should leave you wanting more).

The Maxx had a story, described more or less here. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Maxx) Of course, despite the connection you tried to establish between you and I and the shows we grew up watching, apparently I managed to not immediately dismiss MTV's animation bloc simply because of the channel it was on when I was younger.