PDA

View Full Version : Lots and lots of questions.



Anyaaa
07-22-2008, 09:06 AM
I've been learning from Tae Kim's guide recently, and I wanted to practise some of the more difficult grammar points (and some of the not-so-difficult ones) by making my own sentences. But I don't have a teacher or any Japanese speaking friends, so could you guys just have a look at these and tell me if they make sense? I've got the grammar point I was practising written beneath the sentence as well, because I posted a few of these elsewhere but people posted corrections that didn't use the same grammar which was no good xD

犬が忠実 (http://www.animeforum.com/words?jap=??;dict=edict)で、利口で、フレンドリでしょう!
Dogs are loyal, intelligent, and friendly!
(で linking adjectives)

「新しい靴を買って、散歩しました」と言った。
"I bought some new shoes, and went for a walk" I said.
(listing verbs with て)

日本語を勉強するのが好きのに、易しくないよ!
Even though I like learning Japanese, it's not easy!
(Using 'のに' + negative adjectives)

スキーに行きたいけど、高い過ぎね。
I want to go skiing but it's too expensive, isn't it?
(Using ’たい’, ’けど’、and ’すぎる’)

彼は荒いし、バカだし、卑しいですが。。。
He's rough, stupid, and mean (etc.) but...
(Using し to link adjectives, suggesting others)

本を読んだり、映画を見たり、小さな子供をパンチしたりする。
I do things like read books, watch movies, and punch small children.
(Using たり...する to list verbs, suggesting others)

今日から、毎日は笑おうとしていくよ!
From today, I'm going to try and smile every day!
(Using plain volitional, とする, and ~ていく)

ヴァンパイアだから、飯が食べられない。
Because I'm a vampire, I can't eat food.
(Potential form)

無視していなかったよ!聞こえなかった!
I wasn't ignoring you! I couldn't hear!
(Negative past potential. And 聞く cuz that's weird.)

彼女が死んだことがあり得ます。
It's possible that she died.
(ありうる、ありえる、あり得る lolwut)

ケーキを作といた!
I made a cake!
(~ておく)

ピンクのドレスにします。
I'll have the pink dress.
(~にする)

医師になることにした。
I decided to become a doctor.
(~にする again, just a more risky sentence :p)

闇が怖いだから、夜は灯をつけっぱなしが好き。
Because I am afraid of the dark, I like to leave the lights on at night.
(Using っぱなし to say something has been left the way it is)

Basically I just want to know if the grammar described was used correctly, but if there are other mistakes that you can explain, please tell me. Whether that's vocabulary or whatever. And if any of them sound unnatural that'd be nice to know.

ALSO:

Couldn't think of anything for 'てある' - is that used very often? Can you guys give me some more sample sentences? And sample sentences for more uses of 'noun + にする'?
Can someone explain the difference between using よう and こと after a verb?

Hahaha if anyone actually bothers to answer all this, they have the patience of a saint xD

Ertai87
07-22-2008, 05:22 PM
OK, so starting from the top (I'm going to be very nitpicky, so be forewarned):

1) This looks pretty good. However, in English, you're stating a fact ("Dogs are blah blah blah") whereas in Japanese, you're sort of asking a question (by using でしょう). A better 英和 (English-to-Japanese) translation would use です instead of でしょう.

2) I'd use 〜てから here instead of just 〜て. Again, it makes sense as written, but 〜てから emphasizes "I bought the shoes, THEN went for a walk". I think it's because you comma spliced the English version, so it emphasizes the understood "then". Without the comma, I'd probably say it's fine.

3) I don't know のに, but I would use 簡単 here instead of 易しい. Fine otherwise.

4) When using すぎる with an い adjective, you drop the い. So it should be 高すぎる, not 高いすぎる.

5) No comment, as I don't know this grammar.

6) YOU'RE EVIL!!! Also, 小さい means, literally, "small", as in size, and I think can only be used for inanimate objects. What you're looking for is 若い, "young".

7) I don't know 〜とする, so I'm not going to comment. However, I think you're using 〜ていく wrong, just by feeling. I have nothing to back that up though so I may be wrong.

8) Looks good.

9) 聞こえる is "to be heard". I think you're using it wrong. Literally, I would translate the second sentence as "I wasn't heard". For the definition you want, I'd use 私は聞かられられない (passive potential form 聞く) or あなたは私に聞けない (potential form 聞く with subject あなた).

10) I don't know this grammar, no comment.

11) Um...I think you typo'd. 作っておいた no? Although, your meaning is slightly off. 〜ておく (as I learned it) is to do something in preparation for a later time. So, you wouldn't just say 作っておいた just like that. You would use it, for example, to say 私の弟の誕生日のパーティで、ケーキを作っておいた.

12) Looks good.

13) I think 〜にするのを決めた would be better (lit. "I decided on becoming..."). But then you'd be stringing together a whole bunch of 〜こと or 〜の clauses, which probably sounds weird. I'll leave this one to the natives.

14) I don't know this grammar. No comment.

As for the other questions:

Re: 〜てある: This is basically a way of using 〜ておく without giving yourself credit. When you use 〜ておく it's saying "I did ~". When you use 〜てある, it's saying "~ has been done". The meaning is the same, but I think 〜てある is more humble. You can also use 〜てある when you've delegated a task to someone whose name you don't know or when a task that was given to you was already done by someone else before you could get to it.

Re: よう/こと: I've never heard よう used after a verb to mean something similar to こと. The only times I've heard よう is to say "like" or "I wish". If you mean の and こと, my prof said there's really no difference, although I prefer to use こと so I don't confuse it with the particle の.

Anyaaa
07-23-2008, 07:06 AM
:O
Wow, I wasn't expecting any replies xDD;
Thanks so much!

3) would be 「日本語を勉強することが好きのに、簡単じゃない!」then? That is how you make な-adjectives negative right? And is it quite informal? Is there a way to say it that's more polite without sounding too stiff, or is it fine to use 「じゃない」?

4) Whups wasn't paying attention xD

7) 「~ていく」has been confusing me for a very long time D: I'll have to look it up more later.

9) Aha, thanks :D Passive potential... that's a beast... *faints*

11) I read that 「ておく」is often slurred into 「とく」in casual speech, so that's why I wrote what I did, but on second thought maybe it should have been 「作っといた」... hmm...

And thank you for all the other answers! I have taken note :D

Anuket
07-23-2008, 09:25 AM
本を読んだり、映画を見たり、小さな子供をパンチしたりする。
I do things like read books, watch movies, and punch small children.
(Using たり...する to list verbs, suggesting others)




XDDDD Seriously, this sentence got me laughing for a while!! Haha! How did you come up with it? If I said this in my Japanese class my teacher would've said she'd do the same to me! Really funny man!!

Anyaaa
07-23-2008, 09:58 AM
xDDD
It was late at night and I was hyped up on fizzy drinks and chocolate, and couldn't think of a third thing to say so I just wrote that.

Ertai87
07-23-2008, 05:21 PM
:O
Wow, I wasn't expecting any replies xDD;
Thanks so much!

No problem.


3) would be 「日本語を勉強することが好きのに、簡単じゃない!」then? That is how you make な-adjectives negative right? And is it quite informal? Is there a way to say it that's more polite without sounding too stiff, or is it fine to use 「じゃない」?

Yeah, that's basically it. The way I understand it, you can use any combination of じゃ/では with ない/ありません to make your statement as formal as you like. じゃありません sounds kind of forced though, but ではない is common.


7) 「~ていく」has been confusing me for a very long time D: I'll have to look it up more later.

The way I understand it is that it's simply an expression of movement in action. So you could say "I took flowers to my friend's graduation ceremony": 私は花を友達の卒業式に持っていった. That's how I understand it, although in full disclosure, I was home sick the day that grammar was taught in class.


9) Aha, thanks :D Passive potential... that's a beast... *faints*

I'm not 100% sure my answer to that question is right. I'd like to hear from Shinnraiu or one of the other natives on that one, and I'd advise you to wait before taking my word on that one.


11) I read that 「ておく」is often slurred into 「とく」in casual speech, so that's why I wrote what I did, but on second thought maybe it should have been 「作っといた」... hmm...

Huh. News to me. Good to know, though.

Also, on the topic of embarassing things we've said in Japanese class, at the beginning of my Japanese 4 course, my prof asked us to tell her one thing we were looking forward to/wanted to do during the term. This was in January '08. As a gamer, I, like half the planet, was looking forward to Super Smash Bros. Brawl. Half because I was tired and half because I thought she'd know what I was talking about (although the fact that my prof is a *she* should probably have made me figure differently, despite the fact that she's a native Japanese, owns a Wii, and is relatively young), I simply said "Smash Brawlをしたいです". She gave me a weird look, to say the least. I quickly explained it was a video game, but I was still embarrassed for about a month after that XD

TabascoDango
07-24-2008, 12:59 AM
Hi, all
I wrote down what I thought about the Japanese sentenences Ertai87-san didn't mention.



彼は荒いし、バカだし、卑しいですが。。。
He's rough, stupid, and mean (etc.) but...
(Using し to link adjectives, suggesting others)

This sentence is mixed casual speech and formal speech, so I rewrote it in two different forms.

C
彼は荒いし、バカだし、卑しいけど。。。

F
彼は荒いですし、バカですし、卑しいですが。。。



彼女が死んだことがあり得ます。
It's possible that she died.
(ありうる、ありえる、あり得る lolwut)

It'd be better to use "可能性がある-かのうせいがある-" instead of "あり得ます".

彼女が死んだ可能性があります。




闇が怖いだから、夜は灯をつけっぱなしが好き。
Because I am afraid of the dark, I like to leave the lights on at night.
(Using っぱなし to say something has been left the way it is)

Because the tou-ten was wrongly placed, I fixed it.
Then I added "にするの" to "つけっぱなし" for more natural speech.

闇が怖い、だから夜は灯をつけっぱなしにするのが好き。
闇が怖いから、夜は灯をつけっぱなしにするのが好き。

Of course, both of the two sentences above have the same meaning.

Anyaaa
07-24-2008, 04:33 PM
Thank you both very much!

Ertai - Hahaha xDD I've definately said weird things to my French teacher before, thought I can't remember any of them. I once wrote that I don't do much sport in one of my essays (which wasn't even true), and he went on for ages about how I need to do lots of sport because it's healthy, I was so embarrassed. Actually all of my teachers seemed to think I was quite lazy... one of them didn't believe me when I said I'd taken up tennis and looked at me with a kind of "whatalie" face. *cough*

TabascoDango - Thanks! Is there a reason that adding にする made it more natural? Or is it just something I'm going to have to remember?

TabascoDango
07-24-2008, 09:33 PM
Thank you both very much!



Ertai - Hahaha xDD I've definately said weird things to my French teacher before, thought I can't remember any of them. I once wrote that I don't do much sport in one of my essays (which wasn't even true), and he went on for ages about how I need to do lots of sport because it's healthy, I was so embarrassed. Actually all of my teachers seemed to think I was quite lazy... one of them didn't believe me when I said I'd taken up tennis and looked at me with a kind of "whatalie" face. *cough*



TabascoDango - Thanks! Is there a reason that adding にする made it more natural? Or is it just something I'm going to have to remember?

You are welcome.

It's just because some of my friends and I felt the sentence you made sounded a little bit weird when we heard it^^;

dabura667
07-29-2008, 07:56 AM
犬が忠実 (http://www.animeforum.com/words?jap=??;dict=edict)で、利口で、フレンドリでしょう!
Dogs are loyal, intelligent, and friendly!
(で linking adjectives)

フレンドリーです。 you need to extent the ri and use desu not desyou

「新しい靴を買って、散歩しました」と言った。
"I bought some new shoes, and went for a walk" I said.
(listing verbs with て)

ok

日本語を勉強するのが好きのに、易しくないよ!
Even though I like learning Japanese, it's not easy!
(Using 'のに' + negative adjectives)

Hard to explain, but it's not just のに it's なのに in this case. When speaking most people use 簡単(かんたん) so 簡単じゃないよ。 is more natural

スキーに行きたいけど、高い過ぎね。
I want to go skiing but it's too expensive, isn't it?
(Using ’たい’, ’けど’、and ’すぎる’)

高い過ぎね。 is wrong. when using sugiru with adjectives, you drop the i for i-adjectives and just add sugiru to the na-adjectives without adding na. 高過ぎだね or 高過ぎるね are normal. でも一瞬止まったwwww日本語がこんなにショボいのに急に「高過ぎね?www」とか言い出すってクオリテ ィー高ぇえなぁwwwって思ったwwwwでも単なるタイプミスだったんでちょっとだけがっかり したw

彼は荒いし、バカだし、卑しいですが。。。
He's rough, stupid, and mean (etc.) but...
(Using し to link adjectives, suggesting others)

荒いis not often used for people, more like actions or things. like 荒い風 or 運転が荒い or 息が荒い

本を読んだり、映画を見たり、小さな子供をパンチしたりする。
I do things like read books, watch movies, and punch small children.
(Using たり...する to list verbs, suggesting others)

パンチする is not natural... maybe if it was the name of some technique you had like "SUPER ULTRA PUNCH!" or if you were saying punch as a noun something, but normally we say 殴る=殴ったり(なぐる=なぐったり)
てか子供は何故殴られなくちゃいけないんだ?wwww

今日から、毎日は笑おうとしていくよ!
From today, I'm going to try and smile every day!
(Using plain volitional, とする, and ~ていく)

don't use ていく in this situation... or 笑おうとする... because -ou to suru has a tone of "I tried to but failed" and is not used in the future tense.

今日から、毎日頑張って(がんばって)笑うことにしよう! is better

ヴァンパイアだから、飯が食べられない。
Because I'm a vampire, I can't eat food.
(Potential form)

吸血鬼(きゅうけつき) = Vampire but Vampire in katakana is ok. Don't say 飯meshi... which originally means rice, but can mean a meal... which for a vampire is blood, so they could say that blood is their meshi. Maybe you mean can't eat normal food like humans.人間の or 普通の食べ物が食べられない

無視していなかったよ!聞こえなかった!
I wasn't ignoring you! I couldn't hear!
(Negative past potential. And 聞く cuz that's weird.)

おk

彼女が死んだことがあり得ます。
It's possible that she died.
(ありうる、ありえる、あり得る lolwut)

maybe using は instead of が is better I think

ケーキを作といた!
I made a cake!
(~ておく)

作っといた (don't forget small っ) is good we say and type like that online and stuff, but technically not grammatically correct. In books and school you will not see that, you must write 作っておいた

ピンクのドレスにします。
I'll have the pink dress.
(~にする)

ok

医師になることにした。
I decided to become a doctor.
(~にする again, just a more risky sentence :p)

ok

闇が怖いだから、夜は灯をつけっぱなしが好き。
Because I am afraid of the dark, I like to leave the lights on at night.
(Using っぱなし to say something has been left the way it is)

no だ in beginning, 怖い is a i-adjective and doesn't need だ...電気(でんき) is better. 電気を付けっぱなしにするのが好き is ok, but usually when we talk about a routine or something we do constantly we don't usually say suki all the time. so I would say something like 闇が怖いから、夜は電気を付けっぱなしにする。

ALSO:

Couldn't think of anything for 'てある' - is that used very often?

用意してある。 = I have prepared it (and it is ready)
用意している。 = I am preparing it (and it is not ready)

消してある。 = I have turned it off (and it's still off)
消している。 = I am turning it off.

We use てある for ACTION verbs known as Dependant Verbs or 他動詞
We do not use tearu for passive verbs known as Independant Verbs or 自動詞

閉める = 他動詞 = 閉めてある (I have shut it (and it is still shut))
閉まる = 自動詞 = 閉まってある (is incorrect Japanese, is not used, means nothing, people will maybe ask, "do you mean 閉めてある?")

The main verb in this tense is ある as it is the final verb. what does aru mean? to exist. te te te ru verb structure is like sequence of actions, so when I say ドアは閉めてある shimete aru means what about the door? it exists after (order) someone (usually not said or known, because usually if you yourself did the verb you would just say "I shut the door" ドア閉めたよ or something) shut it

Can you guys give me some more sample sentences? And sample sentences for more uses of 'noun + にする'?

noun にする is easy... just like "I choose" or "I decided" 毛布は黒にした。 As for the blanket, I decided on black.

Can someone explain the difference between using よう and こと after a verb?


ようmeans like the way, and こと is like the thing or action itself.

祈るようになった。 I started praying (as a lifestyle, before then I used to not pray)


よう when written in kanji is 様 which maybe you recognize as -sama for names, but it is short for 様子 yousu which means "way of being, state, condition" so when I say 祈るようになった I mean "(I became)(なった) (into)(に) (a state)(よう) (of praying regularly)(祈る)" (remember the dictionary form of verbs in Japanese is NOT present tense. there is no present in Japanese. dictionary form is future or routine...) (there is a present perfect tense though, like 走っている the -ing tense)

こと when written in kanji is 事 which means thing in a nontangible way.
Like 食べる = I eat, she eats, we eat. but 食べること = the act of eating.

so when you use ことにする really all こと does is changes the verb into a gerund noun for you and it's exactly the same as the 黒にした example I gave you.



I hope this helped

Anyaaa
07-31-2008, 05:18 AM
Wow, thank you so much Dabura, you've been a great help! I'll have to read through that a few times to make sure I got it all! xDD

dabura667
08-01-2008, 06:45 AM
I was talking to friend today because of your "arieru" phrase, I figured you want to use 有り得る so I suggested は instead of が but I thought it was still strange...

we thought of ways to use arieru, (though I think the 可能性 kanousei example someone else wrote is better for this english sentence)

有り得る needs to be used with は or が so it is the subject that is to be possible...

I think that it sounds less strange if you use the phrase ということ which is used a lot in Japanese but I don't know how to say in english...

so 彼女が死んだということが有り得る。 is best to use arieru.

死んだこと is gerund noun "the act of having died" and because its sounding like "The act of she is having died is possible" but it sounds too unnatural... you won't say that it was possible....... umm, ok so maybe arieru isn't exactly "to be possible"

I think it is more like "it will gain existence" meaning that in the case that you would guess on the possibility, that it will gain existence...

but 彼女が死んだということが有り得る。 could also be written 「彼女が死んだ」ということが有り得る。 as と in japanese is like an ending quote for most times.

meaning that you are saying the assumption of "She died" will gain existance, meaning it's possible...


I don't think I can explain well, but maybe you understand?

Anyaaa
08-02-2008, 07:28 AM
Thank you, I think I understand it now! I'll avoid using 有り得る until I understand Japanese better.

Getting sentences to sound natural is a lot harder than I would have thought o_x; Guess I should work a bit harder at it =p

Thank you again!