Going to Japan

[Ertai87]

So, I'm going to Japan in about a week and a half (12 days and counting!), and I was wondering if there was anything I should know before I go there. I've taken 4 language classes at my University, so my grammar is probably at maybe a grade 2 (Japanese native) level, and my vocabulary (which I have admittedly not studied very much) maybe a Grade 1 (native) level, but I know very little about the culture. For example, under what conditions can I use plain form? I know in stores they use a lot of Keigo (and I know pretty much no Keigo so I'm screwed, but I've already resigned myself to that unfortunate fact), so it is OK to use plain style back to them? Also when is it OK to use short forms like きゃ or じゃ? Basically any information on customs and respect would be helpful, but please don't misinform me, as it's very important to me to make a good impression when I go. Thanks.

[Datenshi]

Hmm, where in Japan are you going? I wouldn't worry much, especially if it's Tokyo or a relatively developed city like Osaka.

It's impossible to give you any specific pieces of advice for politeness, but all I can say is to not be afraid to try and talk to people. You'll find there are people who are very eager to have a chance to talk to someone from overseas (I recently went to Tokyo Station to receive someone from abroad and we were stopped twice and asked if we needed any help by a random commuter). However, since Japan is a very secluded country, you should keep in mind there are unfortunately some people who are still a little wary around foreigners, but you shouldn't let that turn you off.

And anyhow, who on earth would be offended if a person who's still learning the language isn't "polite" enough? The worst possible thing you can do (and I've seen this happens to a lot of exchange students, mind) is to be so afraid of making a mistake that you keep to yourself, or stick with only those people who know English. That would be a terrible waste.

Anyhow, good luck. If you have any personal questions or whatnot, feel free to P.M. me, even though I can't be as active as I'd like online lately I'll try my best to respond.

Best Regards,
-Ken

[Ertai87]

Yeah, I'm going to Kyoto for 2 weeks (at Kyoto U for the mornings of those 2 weeks), then 1 week of traveling, including 3 days in Tokyo, where I leave from to come back to Canada.

See, the thing is that when I talk, I instinctively use the ます form all the time, but sometimes I force myself to use the plain form, so my speech comes out all over the place sometimes. Nobody's ever said anything to me, but it's kind of embarassing, I think. To be honest, I've been a part of the Japanese club at my uni for 8 months, but I've been embarassed about my speech so much that I've maybe spoken 3 or 4 sentences in Japanese in those 8 months, despite the fact that about 1/4 of the club is native Japanese and a further 1/8 is pretty much fluent. The fact that the native Japanese people speak such good English makes me feel that my Japanese is really lacking. I kind of just feel that if I try to speak Japanese, I'll have to think too much to put a sentence together. I know it's completely bad and wrong for me to think that way, but I do anyway :(

I'll try to do better when I go to Japan. I decided when I planned the trip about 6 months or so ago that the focus of this trip for me was going to be learning to speak Japanese better, and I'm set on that. Then again, I said the same thing in January, November, and September when I joined the Japanese club. So we'll see, but thanks for the advice and confidence ^_^

[MistressPookyChan]

We'll have to meet up for drinks when you're in Tokyo! :D

The advice I tell everyone is to not worry about their language abilities so much. Even if your grammar is not good, people will get the hint. Having some Japanese ability when you come over is good, but expect it to not be perfect. Students are taught textbook Japanese; the stuff no one uses except in written documents. Don't get discouraged!! People will appreciate that you know even a little Japanese. However, manners are important. Remember: shoes off when you go inside, please and thank yours, all that stuff your mom reminded you of when you were a kid. :)

Feel free to PM me if you have any Qs.

[Ertai87]

I guess so. I guess I just don't want it to be like...well, I saw in a stand-up comedy act on TV once where the comedian is talking about someone who doesn't speak French going to Quebec (and disclaimer: I have never been to Quebec so I don't know if this is true or not) and he says something along these lines:

"So, when we [non-French speaking people] go to Quebec, we try to fit in and use some French. So I walk into a store and the clerk says 'Bonjour!' and I reply 'Bonjour!' and then the clerk goes 'ugh...Hello...'"

It's probably funnier to actually see the joke being done, but you get the idea, and I don't want it to be like that (except with Japanese instead of French) when I go to Japan. The fact that I'm white doesn't help matters much, I don't think, as my prof said that Japanese people like to try to speak English to white people :( But oh well, we'll see ^_^

[Nytyngayl]

I`m at Kyoto Gaidai right now, and it`s not too terribly horrible. I often find myself forgetting that I`m talking to my teacher and end up using plain form, but she`s cool and doesn`t care too much.

All I can offer, though, is don`t be afriad to talk to people. If you say something wrong, they`ll correct you politely, and it`s a good learning experience.

And even if you mess up, I`ve noticed that they`re still always amazed that you even try to speak Japanese to them, rather than just point, or (as I`ve seen and hear people do) ask flat out in English.

[tetekmakhang]

And even if you mess up, I`ve noticed that they`re still always amazed that you even try to speak Japanese to them,

i get that all the time. i think its basically the mindset of the japanese and native english speakers are very different to begin with.

english in this age has become the lingua franca of the world. although chinese is spoken by the most number of people, english is the language that is most taught as a 2nd language around the world. therefore, english is spoken by a wider spectrum of people.

so to many native english speakers, if someone can speak english, it's not really that surprising. you just go, "you can speak english...i see." and if the non-native english speaker makes a mistake, sometimes you correct him/her.

but on the other hand, japanese is only spoken by people in japan. no other country in this world uses it as its official language. therefore to the japanese, it is very unusual to say the least, to see a foreginer speaking japanese. so when they hear one speaking, they become so amazed at the fact that you CAN speak japanese to begin with, and just go, "WOW!! you can speak japanese", eventhough all you said was "excuse me how much is this?"

even if you make grammatical mistakes they'll just ignore it. like i said, they're so impressed at the fact that you can speak any japanese at all, that stuff like that won't bother them.

so, have fun when you come here. don't be afraid to speak. make as many mistakes as you can and learn from them. you are white. you stick it out in the crowd. you are the foreigner so if you do anything wrong, they'll forgive you so don't worry:p

p.s. when i meant do something wrong, i meant grammatical mistakes or cultural mistakes like going into someone's house with your shoes on....not stealing or robbing someone lol.....i know you know. i'm covering my @$$ just in case

[Ertai87]

Rofl I'll definitely make as many mistakes as I can...calling my prof ちゃん and whatnot XD (nah, just kidding, I know what you said, but that's how I read it XD)

OK, I'll definitely keep that in mind. I really do want to improve my speaking skills, but I'm a bit embarassed over how bad they are now, and I found out last night that I have to take an oral test when I get to KyotoDai (where I'm going to be for 3 weeks), although it doesn't count for much. But I guess there's no way to improve other than practise, eh? Hopefully I'll actually do what I say this time though :'(

[peardruid]

I'll be heading to Japan on May 19 for five days of semi-diplomatic duty before taking three weeks' worth of holiday (starting May 24). Perhaps we could meet up for a cuppa in Tokyo? (I'll be staying in Saitama for a bit)

一級の取れる外国人生徒は滅多にないから正直少しは驚きました。まあ敬語とかはあまり気にせず、気楽で日本 にいる時間を過ごしたらどうですか？常に丁寧語で行けば安全だと思いますが、私に対してそんな遠慮はいりま せん。

じゃまなね～

[MistressPookyChan]

I live in Saitama and work in Tokyo. Where will you be based?

[Ertai87]

@Peardruid: I wouldn't have had a clue about what you said if I didn't have Rikaichan on my FFX XD Even as it is, I still barely have a clue, except it was something about Keigo which I haven't learned yet (Keigo isn't taught in my school until Japanese 5 which I am unfortunately going to have to wait till January '10 to take even though I'm already finished Japanese 4...my school is stupid...)

@PookyChan: I think my prof (who's organized the trip) said we're going to be staying near Tokyo Tower, but it's unlikely I'll be around the hotel for anything more than sleeping, showering, and internet access. Short of that, I'll be...around XD

But in all seriousness, I'll probably be spending the most time in Shibuya, I'm guessing. That is to say, I'll be spending maybe 30% of my time in Shibuya, since there's so much other stuff I want to see too XD

[tetekmakhang]

But in all seriousness, I'll probably be spending the most time in Shibuya, I'm guessing. That is to say, I'll be spending maybe 30% of my time in Shibuya, since there's so much other stuff I want to see too XD

shibuya? there's really that much in shibuya? like what? i could spend at the most about a day over there. i mean, like you have clothes shops....but if you want to look at japanese fashion, harajuku would be a better place.
if you want to go to an arcade, then the one in odaiba is waaayy better. as for electronics....how can u forget akihabara.

im not really sure if theres really anything that great there.... after a day (or maybe in just a few hours) you'll run out of things to do in shibuya...trust me.

im sure therell be some ppl wholl say the opposite...in which case i certainly most welcome such comments. my university is like only 20 mins by train from shibuya, and if theres something that ive missed out on, please do tell me :D

[Ertai87]

Well, I'm only gonna be in Tokyo for 3 days, so 30% of the time is...yeah XD

I forgot about Akihabara...I'm probably going to be spending a lot of time there too...where are the good video game and manga shops in Tokyo? XD

[MistressPookyChan]

I would actually spend time in Shibuya to see fashion than in Harajuku. Harajuku is getting too touristy. You COULD do a whole day in shibuya, but I wouldn't recommend it. It's close to harajuku and shinjuku, so there in plenty to do in the area.

For video games, any electronic shop will do. And for manga, any book store. There are plenty of places in Akihabara to check out as well. But akiba can be a bit overpriced.

My fav walking tour starts from Ueno, down the Ameyoko shopping streets of Okachimachi, and into Akiba. Did it the other day, actually!

[Kaitou Ace]

A good full day tour is to go to Asakusa, check out Sensoji temple and the shopping district around it, and then take a ferry down Sumida river from Asakusa, to Hama-rikyu (Tokugawa era park) [Costs about 900 yen, includes park admission). Once you leave Hama-rikyu, you can see the buildings in Shiodome, and then take the Yurikamome line train (check out the first car of this train, its fully automated, no driver) over the Rainbow Bridge to Odaiba, the home of Sega Joypolis (and a very interesting mall) and the Tokyo Big Sight. The view of the Tokyo skyline from Odaiba is quite nice.

[LavaBug]

Well suggestions for Tokyo have already been made a few and all are worthwhile (tokyo is a big city, I live here for 7 months and still haven't seen all of it ^^)
If you mainly plan to stay in Kyoto, and are interested in Akihabara-like areas I suggest a day trip to Osaka and then look for "denden-town".
I forget what the part of the city that one is in is called (I think it was shinsaibashi). My personal estimation is, that it has a bigger variety of shops,
and it not so much focused on tourism therefore feels more natural than akihabara. I daresay it even is a little bigger than akihabara, but I leave that comparison to other people. Osaka also has america-mura and dotonbori which you might wanna check out.

In Kyoto, there is an area, like a few blocks...around shijo kawaramachi which has shopping arcades. stores, a lot of shrines and temples implemented in those arcades and also an animate and melon book store.
Also of course it features a lot of temples/shrines and stuff, and most of which are really very nice to look at (but don't visit more than 2 temples a day, otherwise they all start to look the same after a while ^^°)

Also the Kansai area is a fairly good place to learn and apply Japanese and meet some people who are really genuinely interested in you.
Tokyo in that matter, is to an degree different, because here people are less relaxed and more distanced. Also if they can, they always talk to you in english, if they can which is tempting, but will not help you.
About Keigo and stuff, don't worry, in stores you just need to understand certain things (which will come automatically if you went there a few times), but can basically talk as colloqial as you like (you're the customer after all).
As long as your Japanese is understandable it will do, unless you look asian, people will know, that you try.

P.s pooky, we still need to hang sometime (and a know I can say that in pm too :P)

[peardruid]

@PookyChan: I'd be staying at Izumidai in Ageo City (call it 1.5kms from the Okegawa Station on the Takasaki Line) with an old couple for three weeks or so. I'll be gallivanting across the country sometime, but I'll be spending much time in Tokyo, particularly at Waseda University and one of its attached high schools (where I'm doing an informal immersion-like thing) in Shibuya district.

@Ertai: If you're keen on walking around Akihabara, I'm your man! (I can't seem to remember much about it, since I last went in 2006, but I'd love to just shop till I drop over there). I'll probably be spending some time in Shibuya as well - anytime convenient for you'll be great for me.

Oh and I just realized that they closed the Gundam Museum in Chiba. What a pity. I had a swell time eating a desert decorated with a picture of a pink Haro drawn with sauce. (It's called 「ラクスの休日」, if you can believe that).

I'll also be heading over to the infamous shrine sometime, as well as the museum. I'd been there last time, but had to leave early. This time I'd like to take another look. Any takers? XD

[Ertai87]

I'd like to meet some people over there actually. For anyone living in any of the areas I'll be in (pretty much Tokyo and Kyoto) and wants to hang out, PM me some contact info...I'd give mine but I don't know what it is yet XD Since I'm going as a school trip (with 11 other people including my prof), I don't know how much time I'll have or if I'll be able to do anything by myself, but if I do, I'll let you know :D

Also, I'll have to write down those tour recommendations. I have a map of Tokyo, but the streets aren't well labelled, so I might have to figure it out as I go along XD My plan was to take the Yamanote in a full circle and call that the end XD

[MistressPookyChan]

@pear: aaah, good ol' takasaki line. You'll be in a bit of the inaka; nearly 2 hours from Tokyo, but definitely doable. I commute through the waseda area daily and change trains at Takadanobaba station, so I'll be free for drinks if you area.

@lava: ramen in shibuya again? ;D I might be going to nagano this weekend, but I'll ask G.


cruising around the yamanote IS one way to do it! Each station is so different and has its own character.

[Ertai87]

Well apparently my prof has set a schedule for what we're doing in Tokyo. We have 1 free day, but that's gonna be mostly filled up with shopping in Akiba...lots of stuff I want to buy XD

Also, I was wondering: I looked at a JR map today and I noticed that a couple of the places I wanted to visit are pretty far away. I wanted to visit Hiroshima to see the memorial statue thingy and Kobe to see what's so great about their beef. Is there an easy/cheap way to get to either of these places from Kyoto? We're not supposed to activate our JR passes until we leave Kyoto, after which we go North (I noted both of these places are south-ish)

[MistressPookyChan]

Shinkansen would be the fastest, I think. Hiroshima is not too close to Kyoto unfortunately.

[tetekmakhang]

actually kyoto, kobe and oosaka are next to each other. about 1 hour apart (or just slightly more depending on which station you come from me) by normal train . so you wouldn't need to take the shinkansen. but unfortunately for hiroshima...it's way down south.

[Ertai87]

OK, so I'll have to do Hiroshima another time, I guess...how much would it cost to get from Kyoto to Kobe (return trip) by train? I'm just trying to plan what I'm doing on weekends XD

[Datenshi]

((You're visiting Kyodai? Ah, I envy you, that's a beautiful school. If you'd come to Waseda I could have shown you around :P.))

I know this isn't exactly what you'd travel halfway across the globe for but if you go to Akihabara you must try one of those Turkish Kebabs they sell at the stands. They're not even that fabulously good, really, but I make it a point to eat one every time I go there, so, er.

I haven't been to much of the Kansai area, but one thing about Tokyo is that always surprises me the most is that, despite everything, people actually live here (well, obviously). You can walk out of the busiest cities in town and right into a beautiful park or the suburbs, especially around the Imperial Palace.

[Ertai87]

Yeah, I noticed that when I was doing my presentation (everyone going on the trip had to do a presentation, and mine was on Tokyo with another guy). I found it surprising that Tokyo had so much green space (or park space anyway). I'm from a big city but there are very few parks here, and what parks there are are usually no more than a block large.

[MistressPookyChan]

the kebabs at harajuku are better!! It's near the Gap.

@ertai: my biggest expense is transportation. if you can, get the train pass before you come over. it's sooooo worth it. http://www.japanrailpass.net/

[Aki_Saku]

Well, I"ve never been to Japan, but I did read that you're not supposed to tip waitresses, cabbies, etc. Because the service you recieved was considered a duty, not a luxery (or something like that). I hope this helps!

[peardruid]

@ datenshi: you're a Waseda student? I'm heading over to SILS for a bit sometime during my trip? Perhaps you could take me around? ^^

[Ertai87]

Haha I'm going to have to write all this stuff down before I go! So much to remember, and I'm likely not bringing my laptop with me...

@PookyChan: Actually since we're going to a bunch of different places, my prof got us JR passes for the last week we're there.

A couple of stupid questions:

1) My prof gave us 3 things we should remember to say to be polite, but I don't know one of them. What does しつれいします mean?

2) I need a new iPod, but I'm thinking if I should get it before or after I go. What's the Wi-Fi situation like in the big cities? I probably won't be bringing my laptop, but if I get an iPod Touch, will it be able to supply my internet habit for the 3 weeks?

[tetekmakhang]

this website is priceless for when you're travelling in big cities. especially in tokyo where the the map of the railways look like a huge messy spiderweb.

http://transit.yahoo.co.jp/

it's in japanese so it's the most accurate with up to date information (when accidents, natural disasters happen, they'll let you know not to use the affected lines) But in case you're not confident with using it, u can try using this site especially for gaijins

http://www.jorudan.co.jp/english/norikae/e-norikeyin.html

the only problem is that you might have problems inputting some stations. remember romaji is NOT STANDARDISED in japan so the website might not recognise some of your spellings. the safest way is to use the japanese website and input the kanji.


to answer your question, しつれいします is basically "excuse me". it's something you say before you're about to do something that might bother people....like for example make your way to the door of a packed train. you're gonna have to squeeze/barge through some people so you can say this. but saying すみません in this train situation is also totally fine.

im currently working part time at a coffee shop and we also say this when we're about wipe a table where a customer is sitting and enjoying his coffee. we also say it when we're about to put the plates on the customer's table. dentists also say it when they're about to insert their instruments into the patient's mouth. you also say it after you knock the door of a teacher's room and are about to enter........ get the idea now?

p.s. u should get your ipod in the US...it's cheaper there. also, don't forget that buying stuff in japan means that you're buying stuff that's meant for japanese consumers. that means the manual, warranty, instructions etc will all be written in japanese.

rather than bringing an ipod along, i recommend you get yourself a good electronic dictionary..one with lots of words and many word examples, jap-jap, jap-eng, eng-jap, and also kanji dictionary. i cannot stress enough how important mine has been to me. this thing will be the bridge that connects you to the japanese.
anyway, why would you want to shut yourself in your own little world with your ipod. you're gonna be here for only 3 weeks so you should take in as much as you can. when you're in the train, instead of listening to your ipod, listen to the other people in the train and see how much of their conversation you can understand

[LavaBug]

When buying an electronic dictionary you may consider buying a
gameboy ds and get some kanji software to go with it.
(the gameboy ds WITHOUT software is actually cheaper and you can also play with it....Ok on the other hand there are electronic dictionaries you can watch tv with too ^^°)

As for kebab, speaking from the smell I go with Pooky..
You can find Kebab at the, I think South entrance in Shinjuku Station,
Akihabara (3 Stands, various locations), Harajuku and Okachimachi
(but that was not that great, also watch your purse ^^°)

[Ertai87]

I wanted to bring my iPod anyway cause it's like a 12-hour plane ride and I only have about 10 hours of entertainment between watching anime on my laptop and playing WLAN DS games with the other people in my group, so I figure I can get some iPod sleep in sometime in the middle (plus I'm currently on about 5 hours of sleep in the hopes I'll be on 8 tomorrow despite waking up at 4:30 am, but that likely won't happen). Since I'm bringing my laptop, I won't need the iPod Touch anyway, I guess.

But yeah, I know all about buying stuff in Japan...I'm not planning on buying too many electronics there unless they run on batteries. Speaking of which, I'm thinking of getting an electronic dictionary, as my current paper dictionary is about 2" thick and weighs more than most textbooks. How much are they usually, and is there a good place to get one in Kyoto? Does KyotoDai have a campus shop where I might be able to get one for a cheaper price?

[LavaBug]

In Kyoto there is a "big camera" store right next to the main-station
(when you get out of it, on the left...sorry for being vague, but you should find it....other stores like that I don't remember now..^^°)

[MistressPookyChan]

for train travel in English: http://www.hyperdia.com/

[Nytyngayl]

Speaking of which, I'm thinking of getting an electronic dictionary, as my current paper dictionary is about 2" thick and weighs more than most textbooks. How much are they usually, and is there a good place to get one in Kyoto? Does KyotoDai have a campus shop where I might be able to get one for a cheaper price?

There is an electronics store just about right across the street from Hankyu Saiin Station in Kyoto. Giant store- Joshin. It` s a huge chain of electronics stores and they have everything from plug adaptors to wiring supplies to cell phones to electronic dictionaries to video games to...

Other than that, I`d say Osaka Den-Den town.

[Ertai87]

Well, I'm here now (in Kyoto)...wow. That's really all I can say. It's SOOOO different from North America it's ridiculous. It'll definitely take some getting used to, especially the fact that I can't read restaurant menus here...at least there are pictures XD

[MistressPookyChan]

yeah, the menu pictures saved me when I first arrived.

[Ertai87]

Heh, well, so far I've accomplished 3 of my goals in Japan:

1) I bought something from a vending machine that I can't find in North America (some kind of lemon pop or something...it was really good)

2) I ate ramen.

3) I saw middle school girls in the sailor clothes (to be honest, I thought that was only in anime until this afternoon)

[MistressPookyChan]

1) CC lemon? love that stuff. the hubby mixed it with alcohol o.o;;

2) woooo!! what kind? speaking of which... LavaBug: when ya free for ramen? :D Maybe Dateshi would like to join us? :D!

3) ah, the school uniforms. so cute!

[LavaBug]

I'm free on sunday and friday (after 5pm)

as for the schoolgirls, there is a big school here where I live and I marvel every day about the degree of how they master to make the skirts look too (or at least very)short, but also successful cover the holy grail of all otakuhood - the panty...
In connection to that, I also sporadically see signs warning women of people who hold their cellphones under their skirt while on the escalator...A justified warning...

[Akihiko Yamamoto Hozagaki]

A little late, but congrats! I just can't wait for my opportunity to go to Japan.

There's this program that is basically like an exchange program. But unlike most, it sends you directly to the school. It's a private, all-girl's school in Osaka that has an exchange program within the school. I'd be living with a host family, but I'd at least get to attend the school. And the school sure looks incredible. Once I'm in 10th grade I can spend a semester or even a year (money is tight right now x_x;;!) there. Of course I have to continue learning Japanese though!

But enough about me. I can imagine it to be very different from America, but at the same time at least a little similar. What is it about the menus that are difficult anyway o.o? I know there's this one Chinese restaurant that I go to where the menus are only in Chinese, so I just point to the pictures and say "that" XD! Well, I hope you have fun!

[Ertai87]

@PookyChan: It was some Asahi Lemon Cider or something, although I did try CC Lemon later on (I really like lemon drinks, although I hate lemon water...y'know, where you put a slice of lemon in a glass of water...disgusting...). Personally I like the Asahi one more, although it's more expensive (I found the CC lemon in a big bottle at the 99 Yen store).

@LavaBug: I didn't think to look XD Probably a good thing too XD

@Pengin-san: I heard about that exchange actually...I forget what the school is called though (I'm a guy so I wasn't paying attention when my prof was telling us about it). This is the first year (I think) that my school is doing it though, so I don't know anyone who's done it or anything so I can't give you any recommendations.

[Akihiko Yamamoto Hozagaki]

Oh oh oh! I remember when my friend brought me CC Lemon. That stuff was really good o.o. I just don't think I'll ever have it again until I go out to Japan ;___;.

The school is called Osaka Girl's Senior High School. That's surprising that you've heard of it though. Maybe it's well-known. I looked into it deeply, and it just seems incredible. If you don't mind me asking, where are you going to school in America?

[Kaitou Ace]

Meh all this talk about CC Lemon, now I am going to have to search for it out here, because I really enjoyed it when I was in Japan.

[MistressPookyChan]

I also recommend na-chan orange. soooo sugary, but addictive.

@lava: fridays are pretty bad for me, but might be able to do sunday. Gotta see what Glen is up to, though. mind if he tags along?

[Ayame_Sohma]

Wow...You guys who have been to japan or going there are sooo damn lucky..i wish i could go there as well..grrr :(

[LavaBug]

I also recommend na-chan orange. soooo sugary, but addictive.

@lava: fridays are pretty bad for me, but might be able to do sunday. Gotta see what Glen is up to, though. mind if he tags along?

Sunday is ok for me and of course I don't mind ^^

[Ertai87]

@pengin-san: Maybe it was different. It was a university exchange to Japan to an all-girls university. Also, please please turn off the red. It's so hard to read...

I go to school at the University of Waterloo in Ontario, Canada.

[peardruid]

Hmmm. I wonder if I should pop over to Kansai for a bit. Three weeks sounds long but I guess it isn't. >.<