Taking Back The AF Community

[Kishiro]

I feel that this issue concerns the community as a whole, and thus must no longer be simply whispered about and only discussed in chat or journals where a limited few can see it or care to look.

Our system is broken and it needs to be fixed.
Our rep system, that is.

It has been some time now since the spam threads in the music sections of the forum have been closed down. However, the damage has been done, and the the exploitation of the the rep system continues.


If you are somehow unfamiliar with how this worked, here is a simple run down:


Song of the Moment (aka Spam of the Moment)1) Person posts a 1-3 (depending on their set up style) line post consisting of the name of the song they are listening to, along with perhaps the band and album.

2) People view this and... OMG REPS FOR JUST LISTENING TO MUSIC & TELLING US ABOUT IT1111!!!!!!!11111ONE!!!!ELEVEN111!!!!EXCLAMATIONS

3) Someone else does what the person in step 1 did.

4) Step 2 happens again, then Step 3 again. And it just alternates in a never ending loop of pointless posts and even more pointless repping for listening to music.


I mean honestly... reps for listening to music? I do that in my car on the way to school and to work. It is something most people do throughout the day. Maybe they should have been handing out reps for just breathing too.
Also, similar scenarios exist with the Band Name Game (yes, Spam Name Game) thread, as well as the Lyrics Posting thread. Thank goodness they are all gone.


Another problem is all this "rep me back!!!" and "return the reps!" nonsense.

NO


That's a bad forum user!

People do not deserve to get rep just because they gave it out. People should get rep for making at least semi-decent posts that you enjoyed reading, can relate to, or made a valid point or impact. NOT just for posting in a thread. People make stupid or pointless posts all the time, and they get reps just for making them. Why? All that does is say "Here is some kudos for being an idiot!" or "Have some props for repeating what someone else just said!"

(As requested in a later post, the list was updated. But then I felt like since it has served it's purpose that it could be deleted.)


Now, on to the reason that any of this should matter at all.
Yes, it is just the internet.
Yes, it is just an anime based forum community.

However.
It is our community. Many of us, like myself have been here since it was just www.tuxedomask.com and saw the community grow since 1998 ( I was 10-11 then) and go through many different changes and expansions, and the crash. We remember when www.animeglobe.com, www.animegalleries.net, and the other sites in the AF community came to be.

Many of us appreciate this place and all the hard work people have put in to over the years. As far as the internet goes, this place is home. And the same can be said for newer and older members alike that haven't been around necessarily for 10 years.

Let's take back our community and make the reputation system worth something again, by any means necessary. Whether that be asking for a reset, or taking it down the rep of those who've cheated the system ourselves. Whatever our course of action we take, let's make it definite and soon.

It isn't so much about how much power we each have, but rather the balance of that power, and using the system responsibly.


If you've read through all of this, I thank you for taking the time to do so.

[overwatch]

And how do you plan to solve this problem?
You talk about resetting the rep, but what would that do? It would just mean that those you are complaining about would do exactly the same thing again and get back into the high rep.
Also who is to decide what is cheating and what is not? I cannot see or expect the mods to have to mod the rep system at all. Its a free system in place so that people can show respect (or disrespect) to others. So there are some who have reps that are though the roof - but how does this affect the board as a whole? Some members might climb the rep system though the aid of friends, but that is a choice that those indeviduals have made and so long as the rep system remains a system of free choice as to who you do or do not rep this will be the case

edit - a quick look at your rep and it seems that you and jose have some grivance as well which might be promoting this further - just a thought from an observer

[Kishiro]

Edit:
Mentioned above that Jose and I have a grievance. Well, the same could be said for the situation between him and multiple users. I in fact have no real problem with the kid other than the fact that he has bent the system to suit him. This thread -is not- aimed directly or solely at him, or anyone else. It takes aim at a myriad of problems that need to be addressed. If he or anyone else chooses to be apart of them, they will simply be caught in the crossfire.

Original Response:
One plan that has already been set in to motion is actually to hit the members with over used rep with negative rep to bring it back down to a more balanced amount.

It was done, but people rep for no reason, and was pretty much erased or will be if it hasn't been already.

There are other more direct methods as well but that has to be decided on by the administrators of the forums.

Also, now knowing this and seeing it, I'm hoping people would be more responsible with the points they award one another if a reset were to happen, and hopefully people will have more shame in begging for rep.

[overwatch]

It might have escaped your notice, but those that begg tend to get hate repped into the red about 10 - 20 minutes after posting the beg.
Also, neg repping people with high rep for no other reason than that they have high rep sounds daft - its just a reversal of your initial problem. Further, you statment of a rep-reset; well it might cause some to think, many more to strive to get back to where they were through precisly the methods you state is the problem. Further, it does not solve the problem (as you see it) - only resets the board for the problem to start again both with existing and with new members.
The only way to really counter the problem as you see it is to mod control the rep system - either with mods controling and removing inappropriate reps of just taking the rep system away from members and leaving it with the mods - which is just not going to happen

Also - you are putting a little to much focus on the rep system IMO - its a simple fun system for people to show respect to others - little more - so what if some people have reps through the roof

[Alias-Revolution]

Thank you, Li Kishiro. These statistics have been in my signature since the night before last. You have my full support, and here's a green rep from me. Why? Because I enjoyed reading your post, and it was concise. NOT because I expect it back.

I'd like to suggest that only Mods, Admins, and various other members the staff chooses be allowed to give out rep. This will prevent newbies from abusing the rep system, and will promote healthy forum activity.

[Ramona Flowers]

That's right, discipline those evil, evil reppers.
I honestly had no idea reps were so important, why do people want them so bad? ._. What do they do for you?
I'm interested to see how this works out.


Rofl. I never realized what Sgurd Ekoms name meant before this thread. <_<

[allaboutyou3678]

NO offense dude but does who or what gets rep really matter that much the same stuff will be posted if a spammer had a 10 000 rep or -10000 rep. So instead of bother about the rep system we just stop supporting those types of threads or get the mods to close them all..

[Alias-Revolution]

NO offense dude but does who or what gets rep really matter that much the same stuff will be posted if a spammer had a 10 000 rep or -10000 rep. So instead of bother about the rep system we just stop supporting those types of threads or get the mods to close them all..

Not nessicarily. Being a victim of Red Rep Abuse myself, I find it rather annoying.

I ended up with a -20000 rep once through an attempt at stealing. Thanks to the kind and generous people of AF, and some inteligent posting on my part, my rep got back to about -5000. Next thing I know, Here's jose101 with a bad rep because he thought I deserved it for being in the red in the first place. This raises one simple question:
W
T
F

[Lola Granola]

Why do you care? The purpose of a forum is to create conversation with other people. That's what people are doing. Points don't matter.

[KP4]

Yes, i understand your argument, and i also repect your views. But it seems that your main argument for doing this is because it's "our" community. You assume that the way "our" community should be is the way you want it to be for everyone. However there are maybe different kinds of people in the word and thus the internet. The ideal "our" community maybe viewed has something else to those people. For example to some people "our" community could be giving out reps has you have defined to get really close to others and have fun in such ways. Of course my views on this is indifferent, i don't care either way, but you should consider what others may consider an ideal "our" community maybe different from what you think an ideal "our" community is.

[overwatch]

As a point - removing the user access to the rep syetem and making it moderators (or selected members only) would most likley increase the number of "OMG I Agree with out!" posts in threads which add nothing to a thread but show a users support of anothers view or interest. This is currently, partly, solved by the rep system 0 the member can give a rep rather than make a useless post. This would also lead to increased mod work as they would have to trawl threads for more pointless posts

[Alias-Revolution]

Well, when people like Jose and his friends come and bad rep you because you won't join them in their spam-fest on some thread, don't come whining to us.

EDIT: In response to Overwatch:

Not nessicarily. Look around. People still post threads like that AND give people good rep.

[UrusaiSevera]

You most certainly have a point. And like many of the regulars in chat, I dissaprove of the way the rep system is being used. especially by the newer forum members. I think it's a part of knowledge they lack, as to why the rep system was set up.
You can hardly expect the new forum members to read the rules. And when they see a new gadget, they will surely try it out and could end up abusing it.

On itself repping the people you like isn't such a bad think. But making it a habbit, performing the act several times a week, that's what makes it intolerable. I see that there is no better politics as friend-politics, but that's no way to go around with the system.

I'm not going to take it out on one person, because a large part of the AF community is contributing to the problem. And we can hardly banish half the community, now can we?

I think a reset would solve this issue momentarily. Perhaps only being able to add one point at a time would help the system regain it's original purpose.

Then the spammers and lechers would lose interest in the system, because it would be going to slow. Because now it's based on the amount of reputation one has. So I think that alone will help solve this issue.

just my two cents

[overwatch]

Not nessicarily. Being a victim of Red Rep Abuse myself, I find it rather annoying.

I ended up with a -20000 rep once through an attempt at stealing. Thanks to the kind and generous people of AF, and some inteligent posting on my part, my rep got back to about -5000. Next thing I know, Here's jose101 with a bad rep because he thought I deserved it for being in the red in the first place. This raises one simple question:
W
T
F

You stole ( or attempted to steal) from another member - thus the bad rep was applied - this is a risk of using the steal command - and its a chioce you made.

in other news - is it right for you to steal from other members?

[allaboutyou3678]

okay since this is about the community lets just ask the whole community if they think the rep system is broken or not.


My opinion why does rep mean anything. Seriously thats like saying the secret admirer system is broken. I understand its purpose but having people say I agree with you in private is much better than an 80 pages thread saying i agree i agree from every user. The rep back thing is a bit dumb though.

[overwatch]

I Perhaps only being able to add one point at a time would help the system regain it's original purpose.


So far this is the only suggestion made which has merrit - this could work as a solution to the problem as you see it

[Alias-Revolution]

I never said it was, overwatch. What was wrong was Jose's reason for bad repping me. If I remember correctly, it was "omg you are in the red. let me help with that. *bad rep* There you go -jose101". With a rep power of 5000+, it's pretty disheartening.

[overwatch]

Perhapse then letting indevidual members view the whole rep history of others then. That would at least show that you were not a bad member in that sense as the thief command is another "light" addition of fun to the forum.
perhapse also a rep-cap so that members can only rep up to so much - - that way members still gain in giving form having a highe rep, but cannot smash another member ( or boost them) by such huge sums

[Sagat]

Why not remove the damn system entirely. It's become nothing more than a platform for elitists and losers anyways.

Good post Kishiro.

[Khanxay]

One plan that has already been set in to motion is actually to hit the members with over used rep with negative rep to bring it back down to a more balanced amount.

That won't work very well. The "Rep Circle" is full of those in the 2000s and 3000s. And most that try to attack one of them are in the 1000s.

A reset would be best, if anything is done at all. After the reset, staff members should be set to start at 100 rep power and everyone else at zero.

[Kishiro]

okay since this is about the community lets just ask the whole community if they think the rep system is broken or not.


My opinion why does rep mean anything. Seriously thats like saying the secret admirer system is broken. I understand its purpose but having people say I agree with you in private is much better than an 80 pages thread saying i agree i agree from every user. The rep back thing is a bit dumb though.

You will get yes as an answer from people on one side of the fence, no from people on another. And an I don't know or I don't care from people across the street, much like yourself.

In my opinion, yes. It is broken. I've stated that.

Also, the rep matters to us because it is like a reward for doing things right. Sure, you could omit it and say it doesn't matter, and in some ways it really doesn't. But it is something that some people work for, in this community of peers. Whether it be striving for acceptance, or if maybe people just like it as acknowledgment of all their hard work. The reasons that rep matters to anyone are as different as each member of the forums.

Thanks to all responders and supporters, by the way. Once we get the ball rolling I think it will be easier for others to get on with this as to where people might have been a bit too afraid too before. It had to be done.

Further more, it isn't just the positive rep power, it is the negative effects of it too. The power works both ways, and so when someone who has an insanely high amount of rep bad reps someone who may simply just disagree with them or have differing views, it takes a good chunk out of their status for no reason. I actually can never think of a time when Kaitou Ace has bad repped anyone. And I believe he shies away from doing that because one bad rep from the Boss Man could probably throw anyone in to the red three times over.

On the same ticket, while he receives a lot of rep (and never asks for it), I don't think he gives out many--if any at all--because it would be such an overwhelming boost for just one post.

THAT is the very essence of the responsibility that I wish more users had.

[overwatch]

To summaries I think this is what would work best:
1) a rep reset for then etire board with a bonus for mods (because they already hold repsected positions)

1a- might I add that the mods be allowed to add this bonus, or a lesser bonus to key members that they pick. There are some members of this fourm whoare worthy of such attention

2) a reduction in the amount of rep that can be given; either:
a) each rep is worth one point and that is it
b) reps increase and decrease with your rep poinst aquired, but there is a limit to this.

[The_Holy_Hunter]

I have to agree the system is sorta screwed up. I'm a new member and I can even see that. Do I think a reset is a good idea maybe not but an idea may be that people who conteset to known high reped spammers help the mods bring those ex-spammers down by a few rep points.

[Ichiro Matsuchani]

Ever since I started seeing these 1000+ rep powers on users that I didn't even know, I pretty much concluded that they don't mean anything anymore.

Reseting them would restore some of their meaning, I imagine.

[Music Fiend]

Well, I openly admit to once abusing the rep system myself, although very lightly compared to these new members, as well as the making frequently post in these so called spam threads, since removed and/or shut down.

But back when I was doing it, it was just friends repping friends because they are close, or repping because they like your taste in music. I didn't do that much, but I did it nevertheless. That, however, was minimal, next-to-harmless fun. I never begged for rep, and tho I did rep a few people back just for repping me, I actually made intelligent, thoughtful posts in Misc and the Video game forum, in addition to discussion based threads in J-pop...I repped people whom I thought made post of the same caliber, even if I didn't agree.

The abuse of the rep system that you are witnessing now is much, much more widespread, ill-intentioned, and damaging to the community.

When I saw member repping each other in these circles of friends, over and over, actually calculating how long it would take to be able to rep again...begging for rep...posting 15+ times a day in the Song Stuck in Your Brain thread...when it should only be once a day...people not even bothering to look back a page in the Lyrics thread to see that Linkin Park's "Paper Cut" had JUST been posted...that is when I had enough, and that is when I knew things had gotten out of hand. Also, I knew that it was only a matter of time before Sotm, Band Name Game, and Song Stuck in Your Brain would be shut down.

I haven't posted in a good while. It's no longer as satisfying...and the threads seem as unintelligible as ever. Plus, since those threads J-pop threads are gone (they were once, honestly, fun and engaging, prior to this mess), there's not much to go to when Misc., Videogames, and all the Anime are jammed packed with ignorance. I mean, I suppose there is the Pay To Post board, but I don't even feel like going there that much. It's why I've been in chat much much more than I have been on the forum, over the past 6 months. Maybe longer.

The thing is, what to do about it. Urusai's proposal seems like a sound idea...a reset of the rep system, with the implementation of a +1/-1 reputation scale. I really do not even care about the reputation system anymore, because of the aforementioned corruption of it, but for those who do, they should at least be able to have a fair chance at making a name for themselves around here. If the abusers grow dissatisfied and impatient, then they will perhaps not even bother anymore...in a very unlikely turn of events, turn over a new leaf.

If not that, I'd have no problem with scrapping the entire system. But again, that's because I no longer care. However, I know that there are many who do, so, perhaps that's not the most appropriate course of action.

Either way, I'm not on the side of the abusers. Not anymore.

[prototypetetra]

Rep, even offline, should only be used as a reference and not a unit of measure in judging a person. Just because a person has good reps means that this person is good or smart or something decent - it could be the other way around and this person is simply in the company of people who are like him or her ~ thus getting such a huge number of points.

The system is interesting, but I believe it can work better if it saves the remarks behind the point and not just the last 5 or so, so that people can judge whether these points are bogus or not. But of course that would eat up a lot of database space and slow it down slightly.

[Eris]

The rep system is, and always has been flawed. It has a few fatal points that makes this an inevitability. First of all, it's prone to inflation. The average rep is always growing, meaning that rep always grows more useless. The more rep people have, the more they have to hand out, and the more people hand out rep, the more rep people have. Secondly, it's prone to pyramid-scheme-like exploitation systems (such as song of the moment.)

The solution would be make it a zero-sum game. Award everyone a stack of -- say 20 -- reputation votes, that they can hand out in rotation. When you've spent all your votes, the last one on the list is replaced by your new vote (a last-in-first-out order). That way, reputation is an investment. There is no inflation, and there is no possibility of exploitation systems. Having high reputation would be a continuous effort.

[Faceless111]

Why not remove the damn system entirely. It's become nothing more than a platform for elitists and losers anyways.I was going to suggest that exactly. I use the rep system when someone deserves it, be it good or bad. But really, the whole thing is annoying so that the highest rep powers get the most respect regardless if they even deserve respect. I would like the person's posts to matter more than their rep, so it'd be best to get rid of the rep system all together.

[Antares]

I really don't care for the rep system, I've always seen it as another special thing the site has to "play" with. But I understand those who say that is some kind of reward for being good and active members, so if a reset is in order, I support it.

Another option is to take it away. I sure can live without it.

[Tsuna Kadiri]

People have always fought about rep. Whether someone thinks you have too much, or so and so doesn't think you deserve your rep, or whatever. I can't recall a time where people didn't fight about it.

I figure that no matter what sort of changes are or could be made to the system, people will still fight and bicker about it. So no matter what happens, unhappy rep-goers are inevitable.

[Souhi]

I'm agreeing with Eris here. The rep system, in it's less inflated days, was an innocent way to reward and discourage people in a simple way for their posts. However the whole system does snowball (though at a much faster rate this past year). I remember my first month around here. Seeing people with a full bar of rep in of itself was impressive. I remember trying to clean up my grammar, and actually contributing my own thoughts to a thread to earn a rep from members. And when a respected person rewarded me, it felt good.

You used to work for that 3rd and 4th block. Now? A newbie gets a welcome rep, pumped up to 20x that. Some of it is innocent enough, but the system is definitely getting out of control. Come this summer, we'll be seeing 10k+ reputation. Getting hit with that as a newbie is discouraging.

The group I was part of with SoTM did playfully use the system for good songs and out of friendship. We never got as bad as last summer. I was away for a good 3-4 weeks, and the average rep had skyrocketed because someone wanted to "hit that 500 mark lol!". Or maybe we were that bad? Can't even remember anymore.

Whatever has to be done can be done. Points have been made and people have flamed over this for months. It's all getting tiresome.

EDIT: The way names are being named here, things don't look like they'll be settled.

[-Kitsune-]

After reading through all the posts so far in this thread, I have to say that I agree, especially in the case of Jose101.

Most of his posts are no more than one or two lines, full of typos and such. Then when anyone disagrees with him or challenges his posts, he uses his almighty 5000 rep power to shoot them into oblivion. Now I'm not saying I have anything against Jose himself but people with that much rep power should learn to use it wisely or have it terminated. I've got a rep power of 2700 or so right now and I try not to bad rep people unless they deserved it (spammy posts, pointless posts, etc.). I admit, I abuse our rep system at times when I see a member with a bit of red rep. Sometimes I try to pull them back to the low green rep, just to help them out. However, members with high rep powers need to stop randomly bad repping people, that's abusing the system even more.

I don't think we should take a step so drastic as to reset the system because this will happen:

1. Members who had a high rep power will freak out and try to bring their rep back up.
2. They will start randomly giving out reps to EVERYONE in hopes that they will rep them back.

This would just lead to it becoming more corrupted than it already is. Plus if we eliminate the rep system, stubborn members will start complaining to the mods and starting threads all over the place about "OMG!!!!!!!!! My rep is gone!!!!11 Help me mods!!!!". Which would just give our mods and admins a harder job and more spammy posts to clean up.

I think we should find a way to limit the rep power of those like Jose (and others) who don't use it wisely and bad rep people on a whim. However, if we had to toss out the rep system, I'd be a little disappointed that we couldn't save it (Since it's a decently fun thing around here at AF) but I wouldn't be too torn up about it.

EDIT: As for the Song of the Moment thread, I personally think it's a waste of space and time. It has no point and there are no discussions in it.

[Khanxay]

Oh yeah. I just remember that I use rep as a (rather limited) messaging system and entirely removing it will take that away. I mean, I almost never use PMs, so taking away rep would make me have to PM people. OH NOES!

[Kishiro]

I understand that many are concerned about the re-initialization of reputation inflation (say that 3 times fast =p) were there ever a rep reset again. And why wouldn't we be concerned about it? The forum was reset as a whole when the VBulletin Upgrade came about, and things are just now almost completely back to normal and fully functional, and we already have this issue.

It is my hope that if there was a reset, we would learn to be more responsible with it. It is kind of fun, after all. And neat to have so measure the credibility of a user's post. By no means essential, but for sure nice to have. But as of right now, the rep is no such indicator because of the system abuse.

And when you think about that, a elimination of the rep system does seem favorable. However, I don't think that will be happening although it would not necessarily be happening if it did.

Anyway, I'm glad people are taking so well to this.
Amazing what one post or one person can get rolling, isn't it?

[Ichiro Matsuchani]

The points system has the same exact problem. It goes like this.

1. Some user finds a way to get a lot of them REALLY FAST.
2. This user abuses this bypass and gets enormous amounts of that certain point system.
3. User hordes it over everyone else, so they all get nice and jealous.
4. User then gives it away recklessly, and those who are donated to then donate to others; this continues until those points no longer have any meaning.

Unless there's some sort of control from above, I don't see this stopping.

[-Kitsune-]

The points system has the same exact problem. It goes like this.

1. Some user finds a way to get a lot of them REALLY FAST.
2. This user abuses this bypass and gets enormous amounts of that certain point system.
3. User hordes it over everyone else, so they all get nice and jealous.
4. User then gives it away recklessly, and those who are donated to then donate to others; this continues until those points no longer have any meaning.

Unless there's some sort of control from above, I don't see this stopping.

The main way that people have been getting millions of points is from the Blackjack game in the AF chat. I've seen people who win about ten million per day, which is just ridiculous. Maybe if you put a limit on that we could tone down the points abuse and such?

[Ranshiin]

Well, I openly admit to once abusing the rep system myself, although very lightly compared to these new members, as well as the making frequently post in these so called spam threads, since removed and/or shut down.

But back when I was doing it, it was just friends repping friends because they are close, or repping because they like your taste in music. I didn't do that much, but I did it nevertheless. That, however, was minimal, next-to-harmless fun. I never begged for rep, and tho I did rep a few people back just for repping me, I actually made intelligent, thoughtful posts in Misc and the Video game forum, in addition to discussion based threads in J-pop...I repped people whom I thought made post of the same caliber, even if I didn't agree.

When I saw member repping each other in these circles of friends, over and over, actually calculating how long it would take to be able to rep again...begging for rep...posting 15+ times a day in the Song Stuck in Your Brain thread...when it should only be once a day...people not even bothering to look back a page in the Lyrics thread to see that Linkin Park's "Paper Cut" had JUST been posted...that is when I had enough, and that is when I knew things had gotten out of hand. Also, I knew that it was only a matter of time before Sotm, Band Name Game, and Song Stuck in Your Brain would be shut down.

I haven't posted in a good while. It's no longer as satisfying...and the threads seem as unintelligible as ever. Plus, since those threads J-pop threads are gone (they were once, honestly, fun and engaging, prior to this mess), there's not much to go to when Misc., Videogames, and all the Anime are jammed packed with ignorance. I mean, I suppose there is the Pay To Post board, but I don't even feel like going there that much. It's why I've been in chat much much more than I have been on the forum, over the past 6 months. Maybe longer.

The thing is, what to do about it. Urusai's proposal seems like a sound idea...a reset of the rep system, with the implementation of a +1/-1 reputation scale. I really do not even care about the reputation system anymore, because of the aforementioned corruption of it, but for those who do, they should at least be able to have a fair chance at making a name for themselves around here. If the abusers grow dissatisfied and impatient, then they will perhaps not even bother anymore...in a very unlikely turn of events, turn over a new leaf.

If not that, I'd have no problem with scrapping the entire system. But again, that's because I no longer care. However, I know that there are many who do, so, perhaps that's not the most appropriate course of action.

Either way, I'm not on the side of the abusers. Not anymore.I have to actually agree with this. He's in fact treated the system the same way as I always have, to be honest.

since SoTM got closed for 'that incident' I basically stopped posting. (I did, until the SSBB thread caught my eye) and really I don't know what else to say except what Fiend said. I don't really post any more, I'm never going to bug people for rep and I don't really expect it, either.

It's up to other people who see me to rep me if they want to. So long as it doesn't escalate into another apparent abuse of a otherwise harmless and previously fun system.

[Eris]

The points system has the same exact problem. It goes like this.

1. Some user finds a way to get a lot of them REALLY FAST.
2. This user abuses this bypass and gets enormous amounts of that certain point system.
3. User hordes it over everyone else, so they all get nice and jealous.
4. User then gives it away recklessly, and those who are donated to then donate to others; this continues until those points no longer have any meaning.

Unless there's some sort of control from above, I don't see this stopping.


The point system is out of hand because the ludicrous interest. 2&#37; per every two days. I mean, that's 3600% annual interest. I get more in interest -- every 48 hours -- than many people have in their accounts in total.

[overwatch]

and yet for people in the lower brackets of points the high interest is, in a way, needed. Many members are not going to blackjack thier way to success or make one billion posts a day to get the points - thus the high interest means that over a reasonable amout of time they can get enough points to spend.
Perhaps some sort of sliding interest scale is needed - one where the higher you total level of points the less your interest is

[Sanosuke23]

As for the topic at hand, a 1 member/1 point system has worked on other boards I've visited. It wouldn't solve any "rep war" problems, nor would it stop misappropriation of rep. It would, however, lessen the impact.

I'll admit I am both frugal and careless with the rep system. I'll forget to rep someone when I get home, or I'll rep someone once for their avatar or sig choice. I also repped/negrepped a bunch of people in a thread(though the reasons were sound), because I wanted to rep another member again.

[Ωmega]

I posted this in SGI's journal, but I'll irriterate here.

This may have started with a blog entry, and grew from that. However, I understand why its a cause of complaint from the staff's point of view.

Most of the staff here will use a negative rep as a first warning for a member who's spammed. Then a real warning, then an infraction. 5 infractions=ban.

Theres also a staff rule that your name MUST be left on any and all reps.

With the way things are going now, I can see how some staff members might be afraid to even give that first warning because the person who would be getting that bad rep could knock them down into the negatives with just one rep. You know most members cant just take it as a warning and let it go, they have to find a reason to bad rep the staff member back. We shouldnt have to worry about our rep power for inforcing the rules because several spammers have super high rep.

Its gotten so out of hand that I wont give rep anymore unless its a bad rep, or unless the person getting a good rep from me doesnt have +5738843827483784 rep. I wont rep if the person is above +2000. I. Just. Wont.

[-Batman-]

Why not remove the damn system entirely. It's become nothing more than a platform for elitists and losers anyways.

Good post Kishiro.

I agree with this post.
I support this post.
I've been saying this for months.

Just get rid of the entire freakin' rep system.

Newer members will stop spamming as much trying to get it, since it won't exist.
Older members won't complain about the newer members getting it because it doesn't exist.

And everyones a little bit happier.

[Eris]

I agree with this post.
I support this post.
I've been saying this for months.

Just get rid of the entire freakin' rep system.

Newer members will stop spamming as much trying to get it, since it won't exist.
Older members won't complain about the newer members getting it because it doesn't exist.

And everyones a little bit happier.

I don't think it needs to come to that. There are ways of redesigning the system (see my previous post) so that there still can be rep,... rep that means something.

[Buruku]

We all know what we need to do.

VIVA LA REVOLUTION!

[Sanosuke23]

Maru: About the ModRep situation: Honestly? While I agree with the negrep/warning/infraction deal, the problem is that mods also use their rep like normal members as well. Hell, Ai openly admits to negrepping me for fun. As long as that's the case, making the argument that staff need high rep and it should be protected is fairly one-sided, and saying mods can't use their own rep for personal reasons is equally unfair to mods.

Anyhow, to me the fact that a mod negrepped me has impact, no matter of how bad.

[Storm Strife]

I don't think it needs to come to that. There are ways of redesigning the system (see my previous post) so that there still can be rep,... rep that means something.

Well, we could always bring in the Karma system. All reputation is worth one point, and you can see both bad and good reputation.

Only problem with this is that we can't leave comments.

[overwatch]

I think we are repeating suggestions now - I think I made that one earlier in he thread - along with allowing members to view more of the history of others reps -- honestly I think we need to stop posting now - the grivence has been voiced and we have made most of the suggestions as to what we think should be done - unitil Ace makes a comment we cannot do any more here aside from fill up the thread - and hte more the thread fills the more chance that what has been said already will be lost

[Perpetual Specter]

I'm rather suprised I wasn't on the list in that first post. I'm not sure if I'm to be considered a good/active/smart member, a bad spammer, a troll, or simply a rep-magnet. However, I would like to see a change/reset/restoration of the rep sysytem too.

As for the points system, I believe there should be some sort of limit there also. (My points came from donations and not from blackjack because I always loose. >_>)

[Gjallarhorn]

I originally intended on saying nothing, but since I saw something several minutes ago, I figured I should.

Kie_D_K had posted in his blog the other day that he'd be repping admins to keep their rep up so they could used it for infractions, and has only spoken out against those who continually abuse the repuation system. So, what does he get? Well, several of the people who have been widely criticized for their abuse of this system, and their friends, decide to bad rep him for doing his.
Below I have highlighted, in blue, those people.

And, just for a touch, I have highlighted, in green, what the rep system is really meant for.

http://i32.tinypic.com/nqd2f8.png

The rep system is not some gang war where you and your friends can all gang up on someone and bad rep them simply because you do not like them, while you and your friends continually good rep one another to get strong reps. And it is also very poor for certain members, names will not be named but you know who you are, to be making multiple accounts to bounce rep from one to another, in order to increase your own rep.

As for those who leave "I rep back", that basically screams that you don't deserve your rep. At the moment, most of the "highest rep" members on the forum are greatly disrespected for being trolls, spammers, and general nuisences.

And now, I'm going to sit back, and wait for these little deliquents to bad rep me. Just know that by doing so, you'll only further prove me to be correct.

[Buruku]

The rep I left him was obviously very important.

[Eris]

Well, we could always bring in the Karma system. All reputation is worth one point, and you can see both bad and good reputation.

Only problem with this is that we can't leave comments.

That actually doesn't solve the problem. Inflation would be less prominent, but still exist; and rep-trading exploitation would still work.

[Raidou Kuzunoha]

Yes, the rep system is over abused a lot, but I would be slightly sad if it got eliminated completely. Revisions and perhaps resetting are good ideas and I would go with it.

I probably have repped people without a good reason a few times before. I know I have repped others for liking the same video game as me, so I can be counted guilty for that.

[Snababo]

Even though I am new I can see the rep system is wrong. Just today someone bad repped me cause I had " Too much rep for someone who just joined. Rep control! ".

LUDICROUS I only have 4579 rep POINTS not power, Points. But I don't know maybe people should have to give actual reasons for the rep they are giving.

[Akihiko Yamamoto Hozagaki]

The rep I left him was obviously very important.


Poor poor ignored Buruku ;___;.

I am too guilty of leaving "random reps". Hey, I won't be doing that again. After seeing all this commotion, I think the rep system should be abolished. I mean, it does us no good to begin with. It's quite helpful for mods, and I'd like to say the mods get to keep it, but if only they could keep it... they could only give each other negative rep! That gets us no where :/. So, everyone has basically said the right thing, in my opinion. I've even given bad rep for something incredibly stupid... I sure feel bad about it now.

[Ichiro Matsuchani]

Maru: About the ModRep situation: Honestly? While I agree with the negrep/warning/infraction deal, the problem is that mods also use their rep like normal members as well. Hell, Ai openly admits to negrepping me for fun. As long as that's the case, making the argument that staff need high rep and it should be protected is fairly one-sided, and saying mods can't use their own rep for personal reasons is equally unfair to mods.

Anyhow, to me the fact that a mod negrepped me has impact, no matter of how bad.If rep meant something, there would be limits to what mods could do with the power. Problem is, it's meaningless at the moment, so we throw it around however we want to.

[Ωmega]

Maru: About the ModRep situation: Honestly? While I agree with the negrep/warning/infraction deal, the problem is that mods also use their rep like normal members as well. Hell, Ai openly admits to negrepping me for fun. As long as that's the case, making the argument that staff need high rep and it should be protected is fairly one-sided, and saying mods can't use their own rep for personal reasons is equally unfair to mods.

Anyhow, to me the fact that a mod negrepped me has impact, no matter of how bad.
I really dont give out green rep. When I log in and it shows me the last rep Ive given, I see:

red
red
red
red
red
green
red
red
red
red
red

Personally, I think that letssay, one a week, the staff can give a good rep to one member for a good post. Kinda like a reward for not being an idiot.

Now, of course I'd imagine that some of the staff may use it for a buddy, but the administrators do have the power to remove rep. Though, moderating the moderators rep would be a hassle @__@

But hey, perhaps we can get rid of the rep system and go straight to warnings, then the staff doesnt have to worry about some high repped spammer taking away some force of the mods discipline blow

[Daenerys]

I mostly give bad rep. I give good rep to those I appreciate or posts I LOL'd at, only when I need to "spread more rep".

And I bad rep Sano because he doesn't care, and it is lol.

Edit: I should clarify that I give bad rep to spam posts the majority of the time.

[overwatch]

perhapse we do away with rep - but leave in place a comment system - that way support can still be shown. Granted you could just send PMs, but many people (myself included) would not see a message like "I agree with you in this thread" or "Good argument" as a thing which you send through a pm

[Raidou Kuzunoha]

perhapse we do away with rep - but leave in place a comment system - that way support can still be shown. Granted you could just send PMs, but many people (myself included) would not see a message like "I agree with you in this thread" or "Good argument" as a thing which you send through a pm

Removing the rep system wouldn't be a huge deal to the overall board, but I would still like to have a comment system like you have said. It would feel a little awkward for me to PM like that too.

So basically, I agree with you.

[Flah Blah]

Why not remove the damn system entirely. It's become nothing more than a platform for elitists and losers anyways.

Good post Kishiro.


I agree with this post.
I support this post.
I've been saying this for months.

Just get rid of the entire freakin' rep system.

Newer members will stop spamming as much trying to get it, since it won't exist.
Older members won't complain about the newer members getting it because it doesn't exist.

And everyones a little bit happier.

I support this idea as well. Heck, I know another forum who had a dispute about rep powers and once the admins got rid of it, everyone was a lot happier in the end. But since the probability of this happening is yet to be determined, I support the rep control course of action.


Even though I am new I can see the rep system is wrong. Just today someone bad repped me cause I had " Too much rep for someone who just joined. Rep control! ".

LUDICROUS I only have 4579 rep POINTS not power, Points. But I don't know maybe people should have to give actual reasons for the rep they are giving.

By the way Snababo, that was me (I think, though it may have been a different member since I'm fairly sure I repped you the day before). I personally have nothing agaisnt you, but regardless that you don't have rep power yet, and I stress the word -yet-, would you agree that it's better to control it now than later?

I'mma agree with Xero on this one as I sit back and watch my rep go down for this post. (Or heck, for the people who're mad at me for bad repping Snababo.) Though, I used to think that reputation was a great way to seperate the witty from the spammy posters. Now, that it's highly unlikely to have it that way, get rid of it or at least use Eris' method of redesigning reppage.

Edit: I like overwatch's idea too.

[Sanosuke23]

Maru: But that's you choosing to be responsible, and I'm sure the majority of mods follow that model. Again, I agree that the rep/warn/citation pattern is a good thing, but the fact that a mod is negrepping me for something I've done is more important than how much rep they take, and the current rep system is flawed in general.


And I bad rep Sano because he doesn't care, and it is lol.

I'd like to just point out that this is pretty much true. I care more about comments.

[overwatch]

So it could be said that leaving in place a comment system and taking away rep points alltogether would be better. If this was done I would argue for a member to be able to view thier whole comments history - as a period of absense might lead to more comments than they could read under the current rep system. (or a popular view made)
The only problem with such a system could be that people would use it as a form of chat - so a limited re-commenting feature like the one currently in place for reps would counter that.
edit - comments would also be easier to moderate if there was ever a disagreement -- red reps can mean anything, but ifyou have to comment you have to say something - continually insulting a member would be easy to pick up on and deal with from a moderators point of view

[Alias-Revolution]

Being required to comment bad reps would be helpful, but would it really change things that much? I mean, the biggest bad rep I've ever had was signed. Why? Because he knew I was helpless to rep back.

Once a user is in the neg, they are helpless against rep spammers.

New suggestion: What if the way the rep is given and taken were to remain the same, but the amount of possible rep points were limited based on how long the user has been a member of AF? Would this cause problems other than the occasonal n00b saying it's not fair?

[overwatch]

Problem is that time is not an indecator of quality of member - so a member that is less than perfect still gets a high enough rep over time to do what they wish.
Erises suggestion of a set number of rep points is interesting, but a little complexe possibly to be set-up for the site - and some members might account spam to boost thier own rep through this system.

Honestly though I am warming more to the comments box idea; at the end of the day its comments which are more important than the reps, and it would help to dampen down more on the "lol" "U R SO right" "I agree" posts in threads. though I think if such a system were implemented then all members would have to be able to see who left comments - this would help prevent online bullying of a member by another or a group of others and make detection of such easier for both the member and the mods if a problem required action

[Alias-Revolution]

True... What ever happened to the old rep system? That seemed to work relatively well. =/

[Hypergraphian]

Haven't been here long enough in order to make any comments how the previous systems have worked but I do have one other suggestion that may or may not work and also a couple of points to note :-

Suggestion 1
- Weekly resets with the highest and lowest repped individuals posted, afterall, that's what the rep was for in the first place isn't it? A public display of a user's integrity to all.

Suggestion 2
- Do away with the system, but create a hall of quotable quotes. Since reps are based on posts anyway, why not display or enshrine these worthy posts somewhere? Not sure if its technically feasible since I'm no tech whizz but this does away with the system and still enables individuals to be recognized.

Now for a few opinions to add, no doubt this is the internet but we sometimes forget that there are real humans behind these screens. So of course some would take offence to bad reps and others wouldn't care at all. So long as some system is in place humans will abuse it, after all, there will always be some of us who are cunning. Just like those darn hackers in MMORPGs... ggrrrr!!!! I want my 2000 gold back! (sorry, sidetracked)

Personally, I feel that the only way to exercise control on such activity is to leave it in the hands of few. But then there's the old debate on who is worthy and the question of trust in newer members that the mods will do their jobs properly. Perhaps the second suggestion could work out then since everyone will be able to view if indeed an individual deserved to be recognized.

Pardon my incoherent blabber. But that's about all I can add with my limited knowledge on how the forum works and what systems have been put in place.

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

THE REP SYSTEM IS THE CANCER THAT IS KILLING AF.

Nah on second thought, I don't even care. It's a system that was deemed pointless and retarded within 5 minutes of it's implementation, and rightfully so. If some people want to use/abuse it to claim E-penis superiority, then let them continue- if only to be epic failures for us to laugh at.

[Jose]

I think this thread might be the funniest thread ever. All the member who claim never to use the reputation system, are the ones who feel most passionate about this thread. I think that is so funny, I don't mind the rep system being reseted or being deleted. Contrary to popular opinion I don't even rep other members that much I just generally rep my friends or forum members that I find funny; but think about this way ask yourself just why do you hate the system so much. As the staff has said it is often used as a way to warn people that they are spamming, I far as I can remember that only staff member that does this well is MaruDashi, I am not saying that the other staff member don't do this also, however I have noticed that other (unnamed) staff members do use the rep system for personal gain or some sort, or because they do not personal like a member ask all his/her friend to bad rep them, I think that is stalking or maybe even harassment this is too the point I have been told to die more than once I have print screen I may admit that my rep power is somewhat higher than other members, but I really could not careless unlike some of you who have wasted so much time posting here, if you really have a problem with the system ask the admins to remove it, allow them to decide.

[International 4-8818]

I really don't see the big deal. Sure probably no one will listen to me partially because i am in the mega rep range, but i don't abuse and why should anyone care. I remember when i was in the 10 rep range and i would see WingMan or Dorian Grey and be like, "Oh gee, i hope one day i can join them in that range or more." rep honestly, isn't something for people to go crazy about. The reason why i like it is because i get to see who reps me and i get to spread the generosity with rep.

Partially, what i think is the reason why people are so upset about the people who have big reps is because they were here longer then the people with the gratuitous amount of rep. for instance again, Dorian Grey and Wingman. they have been here longer then me. I joined back in 2005 and they have been her for years. They are the dinosaurs of the site. So when they start seeing the newbs of the site getting more rep then them, of course i can see them being angry.

But should it really be even something to concern yourself with. As long as you get rep from friends and spread it around then it's fine. We should not abuse it by bombing someone's rep. Wouldn't that just make the circle of rep bashing continue?

Please people, lets just make this stop. There's no point.

[Jose]

4. jose101 - 540788. Spammer. A prime example of of abuse of the rep system as I've stated above in every manner. Ever since the death of the spam threads, he barely posted until recently. Now is most likely just posting just to be posting to receive more rep.





I think this is a personal attack for one who claim not to use reps you sure seam mad about it. So I am the 4th highest rep person on the forum big deal, oh and the reason I have not been posting was well I should not take the time to explain it to you. (most of the member who take the time to talk to me know about my personal problem) For you information I have NEVER asked someone to rep me back unless it was a joke and that was in the summer.

[Azel]

I think this thread might be the funniest thread ever. All the member who claim never to use the reputation system, are the ones who feel most passionate about this thread. I think that is so funny, I don't mind the rep system being reseted or being deleted.

Do you know what else is funny? A lot of the people that think the rep system is degenerating the forum into oblivion and that the forum needs serious modifications are members that have been here for years. Members that have learned a lot from past mistakes on the forum and know how the rep system used to be and how drastically it is being abused.


Contrary to popular opinion I don't even rep other members that much I just generally rep my friends or forum members that I find funny;

Absurd. You have been bad repped to a ridiculous extent at times making topics such as ("What is your favorite movie? Snack? etc. of the moment) and big time repping people just for posting on your forum that was soon enough closed by a moderator. You even bad repped me when I first joined the site for telling you that you shouldn't be doing these type things. (Oh, and you can go ahead and search for it if you think I'm lying)


but think about this way ask yourself just why do you hate the system so much.

The question is why do you love the system so much? Why have you endlessly abused this forum for a green bar? What is the big deal about just getting rid of the system completely? When member's that post 92 posts in a "WhAT Is YoUr FaVoRite PoKeMon?" topic and have 12356 rep than does it show the credibility of the member? That the member is not a complete idiot spammer that will not just admit that they have abused the forum but instead will try to defend themselves like it is a personal matter (not that I am referring to you or anything).


As the staff has said it is often used as a way to warn people that they are spamming, I far as I can remember that only staff member that does this well is MaruDashi, I am not saying that the other staff member don't do this also, however I have noticed that other (unnamed) staff members do use the rep system for personal gain or some sort, or because they do not personal like a member ask all his/her friend to bad rep them, I think that is stalking or maybe even harassment

First of all, why must these moderators remain unnamed? Why can't you just SPEAK YOUR MIND. If you don't think a moderator is doing their job then THEY NEED TO KNOW so that they can work on improving their actions. I would think moderators actually want to know what they can do to be better moderators.


this is too the point I have been told to die more than once I have print screen

Why would you put this in a spoiler cap? If you feel your life is being threatened on here and that you are being harassed/verbally abused etc. It should not be a secret. Moderators need to know so that they can assess if it is a serious problem (which I doubt it is as of now) or more serious action probably would have been taken already.


I may admit that my rep power is somewhat higher than other members, but I really could not careless unlike some of you who have wasted so much time posting here, if you really have a problem with the system ask the admins to remove it, allow them to decide.

Some of us who have wasted our time posting here? Many of us have made good points on this topic that were actual mature posts. Unlike you who goes into all this crap about it being a personal thing. Oh, Kishiro doesn't like you...wahahaha and that is why you get death threats on a daily basis. I spent two minutes reading your response and I already can't stand you.

I'll admit that I've been a moron on this forum in the past. Kishiro called me out and afterwards I felt like I needed to go stand in the AF corner for five minutes. Can't there be other ways for moderators to warn Jose101's *cough* I mean spammers besides giving them a bunch of red bricks?

I agree that we should either do the anti-inflation thing or just get rid of the thing completely. I don't see the point in resetting the system if retarted members are just going to make the same mistakes again. Not every one can realize that they've made mistakes and sometimes this is clearly obvious.

You see it is posts like these that have made this forum disgust me and not come on the forum as much. I used to think that green bar is supposed to mean that you are the fourth most credible or the fourth most respectable or something but now I see it as its true worth, an excuse.

[Bean Bandit]

The rep system is pointless. It is just a addon to the messageboard. It should not rule who you like or dislike. I for one have no real opinion of the rep system. It is just another feature some of us use. It was intended to be a fun thing. Not something to be taken to heart.

[Dark_Evo_ChaosX]

There's really no need to do anything to the rep system, besides remove it. It was meant to be a harmless addon for us to use. Remember when rep was useful? You don't? That's because it never happened. :P

[MissChelly]

The rep system is pointless. It is just a addon to the messageboard. It should not rule who you like or dislike. I for one have no real opinion of the rep system. It is just another feature some of us use. It was intended to be a fun thing. Not something to be taken to heart.

I agree.

Personally- I'd like it if the option was just to comment on that particular post with no good or bad rep points included... I don't really care for the actual points. Or- the whole putting the rep back to zero after the end of the week/month, that idea I like.

[Kaitou Ace]

Hm... Well lets see.

First I want to say that while I do not rep people, mainly because of what would happen to their rep, if a staff member bad-reps/warns/deletes the posts of someone for not following rules, and then gets bad-repped for it, I will step in and bad rep the user.

Second, I understand that there are problems with the system, and we should probably figure out how to fix it, whether it means just lowering the rep for people who abuse the system, resetting it, or similar. A reset tends to be a very temporary fix, as it tends to punish the legit users more than it does those who abuse the system, as they just return back to their old level pretty quickly.

However, by the nature of the rep system, it is very hard to track abuse patterns, and I don't think we have anyone on staff with the time to track all the rep that people give/get. (And if someone thinks they have the time for that, then there are other jobs that need doing on the sites o_o').

One possibility that I have seen, is a system that lets you pick how many points to award on a rep, so someone with a high rep-power could give positive reputation in say a welcome thread, without overly inflating the persons' score. However this means that the person giving the rep has to be the one making the call, and might not prevent all of the problems that people are seeing.

Another option we can do is disable rep in certain forums, to prevent the abuse that can come from song of the moment type threads.

[Sanosuke23]

The rep system is pointless. It is just a addon to the messageboard. It should not rule who you like or dislike. I for one have no real opinion of the rep system. It is just another feature some of us use. It was intended to be a fun thing. Not something to be taken to heart.

That's the main problem right there. It's something that a lot of people see as super important. I kind of understand this, though, especially in the case of moderators. After all, nothing says to a new member "Listen to this person here" better than a visual representation of your reputation.

Like Ai mentioned, I find bad reps completely hilarious most of the time, unless a mod does it to give me a tongue-lashing, which only happened once, and at the time I had questions and spoke with the mod about it in PM(I'd be open about the mod's name, but quite frankly I can't remember in the slightest) and they elaborated.

Like I brought up previously, I could care less about having a number under my name with a green or red bar, but I do like to read comments that either approve or disapprove of my posts, that's nice. I'm addicted to attention like that. :3

[Daenerys]

I like the idea of disabling rep in certain forums. I like that a lot. But I still think we should reset, or just total the system entirely.

[Bean Bandit]

All I am seeing is this. Those who were ahead in the past with the rep system, are now not happy that they were beaten out by others.

Reminds me of the point system (rupees) here also. As long as your in the lead its ok. But when you fall behind, then it needs fixed or something different should be done.

Both features are add ons to the message board to be used for entertainment purposes.

[Alias-Revolution]

Disabling reps in certain forums is a very possible, and plausible solution. However, using Song of the Moment as an example provides a small problem, ace.

Some people actually post intelligent threads in the music sections every now and then. Those who post intelligently and deserve said rep would be cheated out of it. Well... In a sense.

The best solution you had was choosing how many points you can award, but then again, it relies upon the members to be responsible enough not to give somone a humongous rep on their first post. One thing you might look for is having a "points bank" so that users can only give out so many points in a day. That amount would be determined by tenure. You could also limit how many points would be given out per rep. This could be based on # of posts, that way new members with high post #'s would be unable to abuse the system by giving out spectaculor rep.

Another idea, which I posted in my first reply, would be to create a new user group with a higher access level. Any user in, or above that group would have the power to rep. Those below that group would have to get admin and/or mod approval before being added.

I'm sure you'll come up with something soon, boss man.

[Jose]

All I am seeing is this. Those who were ahead in the past with the rep system, are now not happy that they were beaten out by others.

Reminds me of the point system (rupees) here also. As long as your in the lead its ok. But when you fall behind, then it needs fixed or something different should be done.

Both features are add ons to the message board to be used for entertainment purposes.


I agree, these are the older members who are mad because they are no longer the highest/richest member does it matter? Like you said they add these features so more people would remain active. Why should all the reps/rupees be reset for a small group of people who are mad because they are no longer on top.

[Alias-Revolution]

I agree, these are the older members who are mad because they are no longer the highest/richest member does it matter? Like you said they add these features so more people would remain active. Why should all the reps/rupees be reset for a small group of people who are mad because they are no longer on top.

No-one ever said anything about all the rep points or vbBux being for the top members. The problem people have here is not one of pride, it's not one of greed (I hope), and it's not one of power! The problem people have is this: People who DO NOT deserve "Reputation beyond Repute" because they disobey forum rules becoming one of the most repputable members of AnimeForum! Honestly, how does one go about getting 4000+ posts in little over a year, especially after being inactive for a while?

Simple answer:

http://www.appscout.com/images/spam&#37;20boy.jpg


On another note:
Where did you get your grammar skills? Yeesh... Mine are far from the best, but wow.

[Bean Bandit]

I am not looking for anyone to agree with me in my personal opinions on this jose101. I see their point with your account, and understand it. I am just giving my opinion in my forum from what I see, and things I know of from the past. It is my job to remain nuetral in this type of stuff as I have in the past, and always will.
I never participated in the song of the moment, I never asked anyone ever to rep me or return rep to me. I am staff and I seldom bad rep anyone. Closing a post or letting them know directly does more than me leaving a bad rep.

[Inamorata]

Who freakin cares. GET A JOB!! lol (J/K). Theres more to life then forum points. o_o;
There is probably alot fo you who are employed.. so I'm sure you dont actually take these "forum points" too seriously..
Also the reason why I bring working intot his is because most people who make their own actual money dont spend time on a forum complaining about not having as many "points" as someone else. ^^; Kinda silly eh?

[Bean Bandit]

So in all fairness...

What is next after something is done with this?

Should we attack the blogs? Should we put a limit on the users themselves, so they cant keep refreshing their own blogs to be at the top of the most viewed blogs list? I think that would be a fair thing. Reset the amount of views every blog has, and make it that a user can't raise thier own viewed numbers.

This is how I see this topic. We had to reset the ruppees, and now we need to do soemthing with the reputation system, so why shouldnt we fix the blogs at the same time? It is all based on the same principals.

[Inamorata]

Maybe you should just get rid of the reputation system. o.O; I think its silly to pride having the most blog views... whats the big deal? lol.

[Sanosuke23]

This is how I see this topic. We had to reset the ruppees, and now we need to do soemthing with the reputation system, so why shouldnt we fix the blogs at the same time? It is all based on the same principals.


Well new members don't immediately see "NUMBER SO AND SO BLOG ON AF" with every post, and use that as a benchmark for their default attitude towards the person. Should they do that with rep? No, but it's called rep for goodness sakes. People will do that.

It's still all childish games when you get down to it, and even if jose's(and those with similar histories) rep was set into the negatives he wouldn't stop being an obnoxious spammer(as opposed to me, who is simply doubly obnoxious to compensate).

It all comes down to how serious you think rep is. I understand the group that's clamoring for a rep reset and a total overhaul or even complete removal, but at the same time I understand the people that are going "Meh, I don't care." I'm somewhere in the middle myself. I think that there probably ARE ways to do it better, but as far as site issues go this one's minor and there doesn't need to be an immediate call to action.

Why is this in Miscellaneous anyway, now that I mention it?

EDIT:I was just curious because it seemed like a Site Issue when I mentioned it. I hadn't even thought of it up until then.

[Inamorata]

Yeah, I agree with Sanosuke23. This is silly. This thread should be closed.. its pointless. Nothing needs to be change, people just need to stop compaining.

[Bean Bandit]

If it needed moved out of Misc, Kaitou Ace himself would have moved it out when he made his post.

It is considered funny when a new person comes to the board and posts. Then everyone bad reps them for something simple. I don't see these users complaining about their ability to do that. To me that would be a valid point for, and to help this discussion, yet it isnt really discussed. Because most seem to think it is funny to send someone way back into the red when they start out here for their first posts. Lets all slam Nick the new guy. It is why I see the rep system for what it was, a added feature.

[niKopol]

The Mods and Admins should obviously have higher rep. Its not like what he did was a crime. I'd hate it if I had to explain every time I repped someone... I usually don't bad rep unless I see something extremely out of line.

I just love how this whole situation started over something stupid. A spam post... then you got personal with your arguement. Seriously, grow up all of you. He's 16 years old, you're what?

Sorry, if that comes off as a bit cruel... but thats how the dice fell.

[Fabala]

Regardless of what I think about the system and my personal points and all that, as staff I don't like seeing the dissent with the rep system, and the fights, and the abuse. Yes, it was meant to be fun, and a bit of a measure of respect on the forum...but now it is being made less and less "fun."

I'm sorry, but I don't want to sit back and let it be just to watch us lose decent members when we could take action.

[The Wing Man]

I have grown to hate rep, everyone has 11 squares now and you only get repped twice and get it and it use to be fun and had order but now it is out of control.It has no purpose nowadays, it use to be a fun little feature and now it is these useless green squares on your posts and I think they should just take it away.

[Hamashimura]

Yeah, I agree with Sanosuke23. This is silly. This thread should be closed.. its pointless. Nothing needs to be change, people just need to stop compaining.

Actually,it's not pointless...it worthy of discussion tho,atleast I see it like that...
However,it's good oportunity to see who's prepared for losing high rep power...

I agree with some points here,and I agree that admins and mods should have higher rep power than ourselves...
I too,was abusing rep system sometimes,but not all the time..
Just when I needed to spread reps around or to rep friends...
But that's not what this is about...
I remember how,when I joined this place,you were getting good reps for mature and interesting posts,and bad reps for being an idiot...

I had to wait couple of months just to get till 100 rep power,and what about now...?
New members join,and after month or two they already have 1000+ rep power...
How...? Why...? When...?
One answer for all of them - rep spam...

I admit,I was rep spamer too,but reading posts in this thread makes me feel guilty,lol..
Call me an idiot or something,I don't care...
I don't deserve this super big rep power,and I got it only because friends are repping me because they like me as friend and as a person...
Is that rep system...?
Rep people you like,bad rep those you dislike...?
I find that rather stupid...
Some talks I've had,and some posts in this thread only made me realize so...
There were times where rep system actually meant something...
I'm not here that long to speak about it,but wth.

[rf switch]

I don't really pay attention to the rep thing. To me its just another pointless gadget like all those ribbons and "items' people have.

[Famahama]

and here's a green rep from me. Why? Because I enjoyed reading your post, and it was concise. NOT because I expect it back.
EXACTLY how the rep system should work. or some parts of it.

heres a nice quote i found from a poster. (...)

"I do not agree with your opinions, but I'll guard to death your opinions."
change it a bit to "rep" in the imaginary mind.

anddd you could say something somewhat similar to Hama's post.

Rep people you like,bad rep those you dislike...?
and thats just weird.

i positive rep when i agree.

If i disagree entirely, i may leave a neutral rep, but rarely a negative rep. i only send those to the posters of spam (and some very rude people).



Offcourse,
Very nice work on the thread.




offffftopic.
http://jose101.justgotowned.com/
lets just see what happens.

[Kishiro]

Oh wow. So many responses over night and in the morning.
Well I'm glad people are talking about what to do and that Boss Man has given his input on the situation also with some neat suggestions.

I'm just glad that the forum as whole is in on this and thinking about what to do. I'm in favor of that controllable amount of rep giving idea combined with disabling points for certain thread areas. Heck, maybe even doing both with a reset would be the best answer.

I honestly don't think that the legit members would be upset about this. In fact, most seem willing to abolish the system. And I know that the rest of us are pretty much aware of it, but I just wouldn't be Kishiro if I didn't take the time to acknowledge the comments made towards me and calling me out on some things.

Jose101, we are not mad or jealous that you have as much rep power and points as you do. That's not the issue. The issue is how it was obtained and how you use it. Bad repping people you don't like or that you disagree with and simply leaving things like "here you go-jose101" or "you'll think twice before messing with me again-jose101" or some nonsense like that. And you do it because you fully well know how much power you have on the system. You can pretend that you don't realize it all you want, and play dumb, but clearly no one else that has posted in the thread believes that. The point of identifying you was 1) Because you are indeed the number 4 on the list. 2) To show who is doing what and how.
I have already stated the following in my second post, the third of the thread.

Edit:
Mentioned above that Jose and I have a grievance. Well, the same could be said for the situation between him and multiple users. I in fact have no real problem with the kid other than the fact that he has bent the system to suit him. This thread -is not- aimed directly or solely at him, or anyone else. It takes aim at a myriad of problems that need to be addressed. If he or anyone else chooses to be apart of them, they will simply be caught in the crossfire.

Also, I've kind of noticed that a fair amount (not all) of the people in heavy opposition to this thread to have a rather large amount of rep power and points. Claiming the thread is silly and that the points don't matter but.... They have more than many other users. A bit of an oversight on my part when compiling the lists. It isn't amount who has more or less than you or me, it is about how responsibly it is being used. And that is what some people are failing to understand, and then end up taking it as a jealousy issue.

Does anyone know why I stopped posting so often in the first place?
It isn't because of WoW or my personal life, or work. Because I can and have balanced all those things just fine and was still a regular poster in the past. My attendance on the forums decreased severely when all the good threads died, became spam heavy, and were often seen reposted every week. Stuff like "what's your favorite food" and "what color are your eyes" and people were repping each other like mad over all these do nothing threads that were not about Anime, and were not about the Sites. They weren't even about anything interesting or important. Just the same pointless threads so many times over. And this is mostly in Misc, and I noticed some similar trivial threads in Pay-To-Post as well.
Hence the reason for this thread and the suggestion of taking back the forums for good posters that write and post intelligent things, and/or are willing to discuss on topic of decent subjects.

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

Does anyone know why I stopped posting so often in the first place?
It isn't because of WoW or my personal life, or work. Because I can and have balanced all those things just fine and was still a regular poster in the past. My attendance on the forums decreased severely when all the good threads died, became spam heavy, and were often seen reposted every week. Stuff like "what's your favorite food" and "what color are your eyes" and people were repping each other like mad over all these do nothing threads that were not about Anime, and were not about the Sites. They weren't even about anything interesting or important. Just the same pointless threads so many times over. And this is mostly in Misc, and I noticed some similar trivial threads in Pay-To-Post as well.
Hence the reason for this thread and the suggestion of taking back the forums for good posters that write and post intelligent things, and/or are willing to discuss on topic of decent subjects.

You know, I've never really understood this sort of opinion. AF really hasn't changed all that much over the years. It's always been this spammy, filled with worthless topics, and constantly on the verge of defeat from the Noobish masses camped outside the gates. It's more likely that you've just become more intolerant of these things.

As for P2P, there have been, what, one post game (the first letter of each word secret sentience one, which was sufficiently time consuming that I think Eris and I were the only ones that posted more then once), one "what is your favorite" type thread (The atypical expressions one) and a few odd statements that didn't go any where? The vast majority of the three pages of threads are debatable topics. The point of P2P isn't NEW CONTENT!!!, but keeping the Noobish hoards out of topics that require thought.

[International 4-8818]

I see it as, if the rep is gone then people are going to attack the money or rupee system. And it is going to go on forever.

[Shin Natsume]

I see rep just as what it is. If a user feel that someone is respectable then thay should be allowed to show it through rep. No matter how much nonsense is in the post made. If someone likes the post then it's their opinion. Not anyone elses.

[Ichiro Matsuchani]

I agree, these are the older members who are mad because they are no longer the highest/richest member does it matter? Like you said they add these features so more people would remain active. Why should all the reps/rupees be reset for a small group of people who are mad because they are no longer on top.Ironically, it's you who would be upset if the rep was reset. Why? Because you already have a crap-load of it.

I couldn't care less either way.

[Alias-Revolution]

Getting rid of the rep system won't solve any problems. CONTROLLING IT will. That's the general idea. The rep system will stay, I am sure, but it should be changed in one of the many ways discussed here.

[Memento Mori]

I only recently joined the forum in June of last year, and when I did, jose had rep power of 900. He has, what, 5000 now? Yea, I've got 1700 something, but even myself, I feel I don't deserve about half of that. Probably not even that, more like 100. It's not just jose, though, when it comes to the spamming and the high rep. And, to add to that, the whole buddy rep system, where friends rep friends just ebcause their friends. Well, example, Hamashimura. Hama's a really nice person, but, they started out with about 800, maybe 900 when I joined. Then he sparked to 5000. The whole rep system has become a contest for a lot of users. When I first joined, yea, I read through the rules like people should, but I ignored some of them, and I got bad rep for it. I got mad for, like 5 minutes, and brushed it aside. But some users feel the need to drag it on, and bad rep back, even if the person who bad repped them had a good reason behind it. And, if they can, they get help from their buddies, like Xero said.

Now, of course, alot of thought needs to go into this. They can't just reset it and call it a day. There are so many other things to do, and to think about.

[rubberbabybuggybumper]

I find this entire discussion hilarious cause it has no bearing on anything important in life. Granted Im fairly new, joined in October, but I never really cared about reps. Sure I was excited when I could actually rep people but that lasted for like 5 seconds.

Ive actually thought about this topic quite a bit for some reason. A possible solution is to monitor the reps that are given and if the reason is good enough then that person receives the reps. However that would be insanely impractical and incredibly time consuming.

One possible solution is to rep levels or something. When you reach a certain level then the reps you give someone has less weight and you are able to give reps less often. This way people cant build up massive reps. Hell, you can even make it so that each individual forum has its own weighting.

Or you can have a cap at which reps become useless, say 5000 for example. Once you reach that number of rep power then your reps become ineffective.

Another thought. Have ratings for each individual post like it is for threads, -5 to 5. If a person likes what they said they would give a positive rating and that rating reps translated into reps (maximum being 5). And if they dislike it then they give a negative rating (minimum being -5). Its similar to the current system but I think would at least curb the out of control repping.

[Alias-Revolution]

Indeed. Let me throw in somthing of interest real quick.

If I've counted correctly, since posting in this thread and on this thread alone, I've received 7 good reps, one from a high-rep person who requested their rep be taken down. I have received 3 bad reps on this thread, one I can only assume was from one of our rep spammers. The reasons are as follows:
1. Can't see it anymore, but I beleive it was something like
I'm going to help fix the rep problem, starting with you!
2.
Get a life. Unsigned.
3.
spammer?... smiles and leaves bad rep... what I posted wasnt spamming you know... It was a topic over my space that it was. Unsigned.
The third reason really upsets me. I'm fairly sure I never said anything about MySpace in this thread, which leads me to beleive that this is some n00b extracting revenge for a bad rep I must have left them.

I have given out probably somewhere around 9 reps on this thread. The only person I ever "repped-back" here was Dorian, but I feel she deserved it because her posts in her blog were related to this thread, and well written.

Obviously, this thread has already had some effect.

On another note, I have been receiving good reps for decent reasons from people posting on this thread. As an example:


You know what, I've read through everything you said, and I feel you have made some really good points, unfortunately, I don't give a damn about rep power anyways, but hey, you deserve them for your well though out points ♥Jagan


Because everything you've said I agree with somewhat. - Memento Mori


I agree, you have some good points~Cameron Lau.

Such is an example of a good response in a rep comment.

[Middy]

Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents here.

I joined AF, 08-18-2006.
From there I made about 130 some posts, and ever since the beginning of 2007, I have been away from the site.

I can't really understand exactly what's going on with the Rep System since I've been away so long, but I remember that when I was a member here getting the stature "Reputation Beyond Repute" was something to be proud of, even if only just a little. Now I see people with that much rep just from their introduction threads.

So I think some sort of measure to improve the Rep system should be seriously considered.

[Hamashimura]

Aside note - Kishiro,you should edit your very first post,for I don't belong there anymore...

[Myrra]

I'm not going to bother reading pages 2-5. I'm only bothering to post here as I feel I have a right to defend myself. J-pop is my fourm, not yours!
The so-called spam threads were not created so people could rep mindlessly, it was created solely cos I happen to like those threads. I like seeing what music everyone is listening to. I wanted people to have a bit of fun in there and not just limit it to "OMG I Leik Brittany!","Greenday is so great, don't you agree?" and "X band is better then Y band"
So what if people liked repping each other cos of the music they choose to listen. Big whoop!
And for the record, I've advocated a reset for the reps (and imo, points as well) for the start of the new year. I like that idea as it allows for a fresh start. But that's just my opinion.

[Antares]

I'm not going to bother reading pages 2-5. I'm only bothering to post here as I feel I have a right to defend myself. J-pop is my fourm, not yours!
The so-called spam threads were not created so people could rep mindlessly, it was created solely cos I happen to like those threads. I like seeing what music everyone is listening to. I wanted people to have a bit of fun in there and not just limit it to "OMG I Leik Brittany!","Greenday is so great, don't you agree?" and "X band is better then Y band"
So what if people liked repping each other cos of the music they choose to listen. Big whoop!
And for the record, I've advocated a reset for the reps (and imo, points as well) for the start of the new year. I like that idea as it allows for a fresh start. But that's just my opinion.


I'm not defending the repping frenzy that happened on those threads, but I'm with Myrra on this one. I liked those thread too, it gave you the chance to see who had you same musical taste.

[Daenerys]

In my opinion, those threads should never have been started at all. It's much easier to just get everyone's last.am. There's a reason there's only one or two spam threads left in Miscellaneous, and they are watched ever so closely.

[Guerrera]

Apologies if I sound like an unwelcome interloper, but aren't we blowing this whole thing completely out of proportion?

[kingdomhearts_tom]

I can't see all the fuss about reps anyway, i've been here over a year and i only have low rep but i've seen some people with hundred's who've only been on for a few months. The rep system should be for good posts and fanfics etc, or if someone made you a sig or avatar. Not for 2 peoples favourite colour being pink.

[Ichiro Matsuchani]

Indeed. Let me throw in somthing of interest real quick.

If I've counted correctly, since posting in this thread and on this thread alone, I've received 7 good reps, one from a high-rep person who requested their rep be taken down. I have received 3 bad reps on this thread, one I can only assume was from one of our rep spammers. The reasons are as follows:
I won't name any names, but none of them were the rep spammers that you listed previously. Just thought you'd be interested.

[Myrra]

In my opinion, those threads should never have been started at all. It's much easier to just get everyone's last.am. There's a reason there's only one or two spam threads left in Miscellaneous, and they are watched ever so closely.
You are entitled to your opinion, but J-pop is mine and I was given the all-clear to have those threads if I wanted.
And I wanted.
End of story.
It was when people took advantage of my threads to post every 2 minutes that I closed it down. That and the fact I was exhausted by all the complaining coming at me on IM and via PM.
Reps are just that, reps. Does it really matter who gives them to whom?
Or the reason for their reps?
People give reps to send birthday wishes, to say hello, to beg for reps in return, just cos they felt like it, etc. What I don't get is how a few people can get so worked up over it. Most of us really don't care.

[███]

I don't think I have ever read such a large post with nothing but crap in it.

Who are you to decide who is a good forum user and who is not? If someone wants to good rep someone back let them, you aren't God.

I have also recalled quite a few bad reps you have given me just because you don't like my opinion, if anything you need to learn that a forum is a forum because it supports people's different opinions. Once again your opinion isn't the one that changes the forum. If the forum rules bother you that much then why are you here?

Who cares about rep, it seems it means something more to you than it does to most rep abusers, as you state. I haven't been here that long nor do I consider it home, but that hardly makes your opinion on rep any more valid than mine.

What I am saying here is if the rep system bothers you than ignore it. I will simply state that I don't care about the rep system which is why I joke about it numerously on the forum.

And in regards to Jose, who cares? If he can find a way to sneak past the rep system then he deserves it. If there isn't a rep system then someone will just find something else to complain about. Without the rep system users will just gang up stronger and harder on users via posts or PMS.

There are more important things in life than a good or bad rep on an anime forum. But hey, feel free to bad rep me cause I don't agree with you, again...


P.S. I also love the amount of people who have just complained about the rep system and saying it should be deleted, then have gone straight and good repped the thread creator, if you hate the rep system then why are you using it? Further more why state your name, why let them know whom it was that repped them? What purpose would that serve?

[Capernicus]

I have ALWAYS hated the SotM thread and at the same time recognized that it would have to be Myrra herself to close them down. I am so glad she did, it was seriously the best decision made on AF since they shut it down a few days to upgrade servers (something like, oh a year and a half ago). I HATE those threads with a passion, I hate the losers that have no life and post in them every chance they get, and I hate that they are used as excuses to go on repping sprees.

Everything stated above is my opinion. Don't be dumb enough to flame and/or bad rep me for them. See, I do care about the rep system insofar as who is bad repping me and for what. If it is deserved then I let it go, but 90% of the time (if not more) it is not, and they get bad reps back. And they always get a bad rep back if they don't leave their name. I don't endorse such cowardice.

[Derrick Remon]

Rep is useless. It's more like how much people like "you" and not your post. And if someone takes your post in a Bad way, they make you look stupid for it by giving you Bad rep. Reputation is more like a gimmick for popularity, not used seriously.

[Brewmaster]

Well i haven't been here for long so i don't know how it was in the past, but i will still state my opinion over this.It is all very STUPID!I mean arguing over the rep?!People we have a life and rep on some forum is not it!!!You cannot expect many smart topics since many people here are young of course with some exceptions but come on people!!Should i now bad rep everyone who puts a topic like whats your fav (insert here) or if i don't agree with them in their opinion?!Think about the core of this.We are fighting over some points on a forum.Like stated by Bean Bandit should the next thing be rupees or how many views you have on your blog?!!?Simply let it be.
There that was my opinion so go on and bad rep me if you don't agree with me that will just prove the facts and confirm how stupid this is.

[Capernicus]

Well i haven't been here for long so i don't know how it was in the past, but i will still state my opinion over this.It is all very STUPID!I mean arguing over the rep?!People we have a life and rep on some forum is not it!!!You cannot expect many smart topics since many people here are young of course with some exceptions but come on people!!Should i now bad rep everyone who puts a topic like whats your fav (insert here) or if i don't agree with them in their opinion?!Think about the core of this.We are fighting over some points on a forum.Like stated by Bean Bandit should the next thing be rupees or how many views you have on your blog?!!?Simply let it be.
There that was my opinion so go on and bad rep me if you don't agree with me that will just prove the facts and confirm how stupid this is.
That's a lot of exclamation points for someone advocating the "just don't care" attitude.

[Brewmaster]

That's a lot of exclamation points for someone advocating the "just don't care" attitude. I know but it's just that i don't want people to argue about things like this.Instead of being just friends and forget about the rep thing we argue.We all came here for one reason and thats to debate anime and chat.Sure misc is full of things not connected to anime but thats why its misc.

[clowangel]

I figured I might as well join in too even though I'm not a known member. I also happen to be fairly new. I can see what all this is about and I understand where everyone's coming from, but obviously I won't agree with everything. ^_^;

I find the rep system to be just a fun add-on to this forum. I don't really take it very seriously. However, it is a good way to give my opinion about a user's post and whatever else you can think of. I also enjoy reading the comments that come with it. It makes me smile.

So far, I haven't bad repped anyone (nor have I received any). I haven't found the need to. I also rarely give out reps because I'm lazy like that. Often, I'll rep back because I'm grateful for their comments and taking their time in doing so. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I see that a lot of users are begging for reps too. Those, I ignore. There's no need to encourage such annoying behavior.

But I think that should be as far as you should go in regards to how serious you take the Rep System. It's not the center of this forum therefore it shouldn't run the way you do things here. Certainly intelligent posts are great and deserve rep, but it's also okay to rep people you like, for having the same hobbies, etc.. I agree it's stupid to rep because two people wear the same sized shoes or something, but you know what I mean.

I also read through the suggestions for maintaining a better balance for the system and I think a reset and a -1/+1 system would probably be best if you think it's that out of hand.

Feel free to ignore my post though since as I said, I'm fairly new and I'm sure no one knows who I am anyway.

Note: If anything I say is contradictory, I apologize. ~~; It's 9:27am, and I still haven't slept yet. I believe I'll go crash now. ^^;

[Kishiro]

I don't think I have ever read such a large post with nothing but crap in it.

Who are you to decide who is a good forum user and who is not? If someone wants to good rep someone back let them, you aren't God.

I have also recalled quite a few bad reps you have given me just because you don't like my opinion, if anything you need to learn that a forum is a forum because it supports people's different opinions. Once again your opinion isn't the one that changes the forum. If the forum rules bother you that much then why are you here?

Who cares about rep, it seems it means something more to you than it does to most rep abusers, as you state. I haven't been here that long nor do I consider it home, but that hardly makes your opinion on rep any more valid than mine.

What I am saying here is if the rep system bothers you than ignore it. I will simply state that I don't care about the rep system which is why I joke about it numerously on the forum.

And in regards to Jose, who cares? If he can find a way to sneak past the rep system then he deserves it. If there isn't a rep system then someone will just find something else to complain about. Without the rep system users will just gang up stronger and harder on users via posts or PMS.

There are more important things in life than a good or bad rep on an anime forum. But hey, feel free to bad rep me cause I don't agree with you, again...


P.S. I also love the amount of people who have just complained about the rep system and saying it should be deleted, then have gone straight and good repped the thread creator, if you hate the rep system then why are you using it? Further more why state your name, why let them know whom it was that repped them? What purpose would that serve?

Hey Blasphemous, your rep is pretty high up there. I bet it'd be a shame to lose it all. =p

If it doesn't matter, then why do you have so much, and why did you bother posting in this thread at all? I'm confused about all the high end rep having members posting in this thread, to be honest. You say that rep doesn't matter and we shouldn't care, YET, you all are the exact same people abusing the system and that technically "have the most to lose". I wonder why you all are in such opposition to these ideas.

It's been a cute facade, really. It would have been more believable had you just not posted at all. I've already stated why this post was made, and why it matters. Had you taken the time to do some reading comprehension at the start of this, instead of getting all huffy about it, you'd know why.

But no, you just want to cause a ruckus and ruffle some feathers.
Again, nice try.

I will say this though, that I agree with you in the irony of so many people repping me for this thread and my posts, as that was not at all the intention of it. But then again, people are indeed free to give reps, and none of us can decide who we should and shouldn't give them too, just like you said. So why do you give a damn and why did you mention it?
Maybe because I got rep for a post that wasn't spam?
Maybe because you don't like me?
Maybe you're just butt hurt that I hit a bit too close to home.

How come you still use the rep system?

Oh and, "hi noob" to you and your other half too. Very original.

[███]

Hey Blasphemous, your rep is pretty high up there. I bet it'd be a shame to lose it all. =p

If it doesn't matter, then why do you have so much, and why did you bother posting in this thread at all? I'm confused about all the high end rep having members posting in this thread, to be honest. You say that rep doesn't matter and we shouldn't care, YET, you all are the exact same people abusing the system and that technically "have the most to lose". I wonder why you all are in such opposition to these ideas.

It's been a cute facade, really. It would have been more believable had you just not posted at all. I've already stated why this post was made, and why it matters. Had you taken the time to do some reading comprehension at the start of this, instead of getting all huffy about it, you'd know why.

But no, you just want to cause a ruckus and ruffle some feathers.
Again, nice try.

I will say this though, that I agree with you in the irony of so many people repping me for this thread and my posts, as that was not at all the intention of it. But then again, people are indeed free to give reps, and none of us can decide who we should and shouldn't give them too, just like you said. So why do you give a damn and why did you mention it?
Maybe because I got rep for a post that wasn't spam?
Maybe because you don't like me?
Maybe you're just butt hurt that I hit a bit too close to home.

How come you still use the rep system?

Oh and, "hi noob" to you and your other half too. Very original.


Once again I can't help but LOL at your post, like most of yours. Firstly perhaps I have high rep because people respect my posts? I don't recall ever posting in the music threads or anything else and repping people because they are my friend. I haven't any friends on here, so clearly I am not doing anything to gain high rep, it just seems to accumulate.

We are all the same? How have I abused the rep system? Perhaps I should start posting crap and that way I wouldn't get high rep, nice thinking! The reason I posted is because I wanted to put my two cents in, not because I want to maintain my high rep, for posting here wouldn't affect that in the slightest of ways.

And to causing a ruckus? It's a forum man, that's the point. Would you rather I rolled over and admitted you are the all powerful member? Would that make my post more believable? Would make discussing things on here very boring, with everyone to afraid to post their opinions.

Your logic is very flawed, I can't seem to find one bit of sense in that last post at all. And in regards to hitting me close to home... I don't consider this forum my home, as you have stated.

In a forum we can't always get what we want, this is a forum directed to many people, not just you. If we have a high amount of users abusing the rep system then why should we change it to suit the one person who doesn't like it? This isn't a community nor is it anything close, it's an internet forum.

I respect your thoughts on rep and am actually for you starting a discussion on it, but attacking people because you don't like the way they do things is not a good way to do it. The way you have worded your thoughts and the general way you have gone about this thread is all wrong.


P.S. I good repped you and you are upset? Would you rather I bad repped you? I have no idea who the other person was that bad repped you, but clearly I can't bad rep you twice in a row like that.

[Piper]

omg sumone rep me plz lolz


Lol, okay as a moderator I probably shouldn't be contributing to such spam threads, but I honestly don't care much about reps. Bad rep me, good rep me, honestly it's not going to damage my life outside the internet.

I'm nonchalant when it comes to these things.

[Kiss of Death]

this is sick and wrong... i know the rules is agains spaming, but... well, do what you want. i dont care. i read this because my friend asked me to. good bye

EDIT: i personaly rep people when i feel like it. i never rep because someone asked me to. i give ant bad reps too

[MomijiTMO]

Ok I was in Malaysia (on holidays) when all of this happened and wasn't avoiding this thread.

When I first joined this forum last year, I thought it would be nice to have a lot of rep. (I didn't think I'd end up with so much rep though.) I currently have a lot of rep, rupees and posts. There was a time where I would spend hours on AF just posting and talking in the SoTM threads. In fact for a while, I tried to post as many post per day for 'fun'. In a period of about 4 months, I spent all of my available time on AF. As stupid as it is, I guess I was kinda getting some high of receiving more rep in those games and it kind of dented my life. I guess I kind of realised then that I'm wasting my time TRYING to get xxx reps or post xx times a day because it achieves nothing. I'm probably one of the only SoTM people who were glad it closed because I can't go waste time there. The flaw is clearly in MY character and not anyone else's.

I achieved 2 million points in a one off large donation in like July or something from a member. I played a lot of BJ and with interest managed to get it up to 9 million by December. Then I gave some money to another member who in turn became rich by .. . . . wasting time with BJ. When I kinda pulled myself out of the hole I dug and returned to AF, people had 100 million rupees and I was shocked. I got some more money and played BJ myself and worked my way up the list. Of course my luck did run out here and there but for the most part it was up. Then when someone got even richer they gave me some more money. I played A LOT and ended up here. I'm seriously saying that I didn't get all of my money in a one off donation. However, I didn't get it by myself and if I didn't get the 2 million in the start, I would NEVER be this high up.

Post. . . lol. All I can do is laugh. I used to post 60 something times a day all in the 'allowed' spam threads. What a pathetic life. Anyhoo I have no idea where my post per day is but it sure ain't that high. The more I posted, the more I got repped. I remember the 'SoTM Crew' and so many have already posted in this thread. I guess it took me a lot longer than others but I eventually realised how silly I had become. So I stopped posting as much.

The only reason why I 'climbed' the rep spam people list was because the people in front of me stopped posting and visiting the site. Music Fiend used to be way in front of me as was The Wing Man and Souhi. They realised how uselsess it was and stopped with the rep and post stuff. But I was still here and for a while I was the highest normal member of this forum. Then people over took me. I honestly reacted firstly with disappointment (as if you would not care a bit) and then shrugged and moved on to something else. I think in the past I would have gone : "WTH Ohhh no I must repp tonnes of people to get back" and could have ended up in a mental home lol.

The rep system is exponential and is subject to abuse. In other forums, they don't have any negative rep and only good rep is given out for legit reasons. Abuse of that will result in an infraction. That forum has high rep members that should have high rep.

In summary, I do deserve some of my stats but as I said earlier with the SoTM part, people stopped posting and moved into chat. Obviously they aren't going to receive much reputation since they don't post. However the chat members are the ones who hold the most money. I happen to be on both. New people come and go and Hamashimura had kinda left the site and didn't receive much reputation from me although his rep soared. If he isn't on the site, I see it as a big problem with users tracking down his posts to rep him.

For those older members who think my comment about not posting much as the reason why you are below others, look at Eris. I've gone up about 1000 in what ever time frame while she has gone from close to 0 rep to where she is. I've been having exams, Xmas working and just went on a month holiday .. . . few posts. She did this because she deserves it for her quality posts and because she POSTS. I'm sure if she hadn't had -xxxxxx to start with, she would be at half a million rep by now.

I remember Souhi saying something to me about his rep back in the day. He said he had to be careful with his rep or the system would be in ruin. I think he was right.

Once again, I obviously abused the system back in the SoTM days. I don't think it's wrong to rep people based on the current standings but do think that the rep system is meaningless if it continues. Sorry to have been a part of it all.

[Sagat]

omg sumone rep me plz lolz

That depends, WILL U REP ME BACK?!



Bad rep me, good rep me, honestly it's not going to damage my life outside the internet.

Speak for urself the time u bad repped me I was so mad i wrote a mean entri about you in my LJ, but tthe time u gave me a warning i didnt sleep for weeks

[Alias-Revolution]

Hah. Some people really are like that, Sagat. Reason: They have no life.

But we're getting off track here. Now we're just talking smack instead of trying to work out a solution.


The rep system is exponential and is subject to abuse. In other forums, they don't have any negative rep and only good rep is given out for legit reasons. Abuse of that will result in an infraction. That forum has high rep members that should have high rep.
Indeed it is subject to abuse, which is why I beleive mods, admins, and members they choose should be the only ones allowed to give out, or take away rep.

A point was presented in an earlier post. "When the rep system is fixed, people will just abuse the point system." I have 2 possible solutions to that as well.

1. Make the cost of dontion 50&#37; of what you are donating
OR
2. Only allow a certain amount of donations per day
`~`A. 1 Donate per recipiant per day
`~`B. allowed amount for donation = Posts x10

Consider that.

[Ωmega]

I think it would just be easier if the rep system was directly related to actual posts. Like, when your a new member, I think you have to have so much rep and so many posts before you can get a rep power of 1.

So something like:

1-10= 1 rep
11-100= 10 rep
101-500= 20 rep
etc

this way, the only way a person could have 5,000 rep power is if they have something like 10,000+ posts.

[Sagat]

Your ideas of 50% donation cost and the amount determined by post is a pretty solid idea. People who would try to increase post count by spamming would be much easier to identify and deal with. It would also keep this stupid mass spam fest from occurring and would balance the scales so to speak.

[Alias-Revolution]

Ladies and gentlemen, let me share with you my rep history. I have some really good reasons, and some really bad reasons. I'm sure you can decide which is which.

http://www.animeforum.com/image/3065047bb2408dc715.bmp (http://www.animeforum.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=26207)

Not hard to decide.

EDIT: And thank you, Sagat. Taking down the rep problem would only cause another, but if we go ahead and develop a solution for it too, then we're going to be doing well. The spam threads will slow down, if not cease completely, and spammers will be much easier to identify. Reputation will mean something again, and the general IQ level of our forum will rise. People will either post decently, or be reprimanded. Simple as that.

EDIT2: LR8, "Your Annoying" is not a good reason for a bad rep, in my opinion. A good reason for bad rep is something along the lines of "Spam is not appreciated here." or "You should put more detail into your posts." If you feel like coming clean, I'm not going to return the rep. But I do know who you are.

[Eris]

I think it would just be easier if the rep system was directly related to actual posts. Like, when your a new member, I think you have to have so much rep and so many posts before you can get a rep power of 1.

What would that accomplish? The post count is already a good enough measurement of how many posts you have.

[Ωmega]

What would that accomplish? The post count is already a good enough measurement of how many posts you have.
Not to show off your post count, but it would cap off the rep system so someone with only 900 posts cant have 5,000 rep. It kills off the whole "rep me and I'll rep you back" crap.

[Eris]

Not to show off your post count, but it would cap off the rep system so someone with only 900 posts cant have 5,000 rep. It kills off the whole "rep me and I'll rep you back" crap.

But then not only would people have stupid rep-trading systems, they would also spam themselves unconscious so that they could increase their rep cap. The "pile"-rep system we have now will always have this flaw, no matter how you try to cap it. My suggestion is to introduce finite reps (http://www.animeforum.com/showpost.php?p=1971981&postcount=27) instead.

[jakun_kenpachi]

Ok, i am new and to me it seems that rep is too easy to get, it must get harder in some way.
Some ways of makeing rep harder to get could make other problems rise, but then we can take care of those problems with another solution as long as the solution to the solution will not make another problem. We do not want to start one long chain do we?

[Fiery]

I don't have a solution to propose, nor do I want to join in the debate.

However, in the spirit of things, I want to thank Kishiro and the rest of the members for contributing posts I actually wanted to read. It's the first time in a while I've read through an entire thread. Plus, I didn't want to disembowl myself afterwards.

I support having the system reset and regulated, in whichever way works best. I'd honestly hate to see it removed altogether.

I don't post often, and I don't rep often, because I don't read the threads. Spam nonsense continuously defers my visits to the forums, and the whole thought of it leaves a bad taste in my mouth, sometimes. I've liked coming here, but for the past year or so, I just haven't been able to stomach some of the thread titles, let alone their contents.

So thank you to those who've given back to AF by participating in this thread. I won't rep any of you.

[Kariya The Wind]

Rep is serious business?

[Jose]

^ for some people honestly I have no reason why it is, it is an extra feature meant to me fun, like the gift system and such

[Alias-Revolution]

However, when members corrupt it and use it too much, it becomes a niucense.

EDIT: On another note, while some beleive the point of my last post was a direct attack, I can assure you it was not. The intent of the post was to demonstrate both good and bad rep reasons. The post has been edited.

[Sanosuke23]

^ for some people honestly I have no reason why it is, it is an extra feature meant to me fun, like the gift system and such

Not for nothing, but if it's no big deal to you then why are you even bothering to bad rep Alias so much?

I could care less either way, but it's a bit obsessive of you to negrep him at every opportunity.

That, and the remarks on some of your rep comments lead me to believe you think it's SRS BZNZ even more than Alias and Kishiro.

[Jose]

If I did care for the rep system so much the I would still have my half a million rep points, but that is not the case is it?
Oh I have not bad repped him so much I think I have repped him 5 times and only 2 of the were negative

[Memento Mori]

Seriously, people. You need to stop targeting jose, and constantly using him as an example. I know I did, but I haven't seen any other names used that much beyond his.

And jose, seriously, instead of bad repping someone to get your own personal message across, one that has nothing to do with the post your repping, how bout you take it into private messages? It causes a lot less chaos, keeps it private and personal, plus, maybe if you asked Alias, he'd, you know, take that thing in his sig down? I mean, seriously, bad repping him, and others for that matter, well, that won't help your image at all. o_o'

[Sanosuke23]

If you didn't care, you wouldn't have had half a million rep points to begin with.

At least Kishiro and Alias are honest about how they're upset about people misusing the rep system. You, you worked the proverbial street corner for rep and now you wanna pretend you have no idea how you got so much rep. Lemme guess, you were just giving all those members directions is all.

I don't care that you wanna be a rep 'ho, but at least be honest about it.

[Acnologia]

I don't really think Jose is a spammer, there are way worse than him. Though I find Jose, that you are sometimes a little stuck up.

And guys, little green squares, honestly.

[Flah Blah]

Not to show off your post count, but it would cap off the rep system so someone with only 900 posts cant have 5,000 rep. It kills off the whole "rep me and I'll rep you back" crap.

It's a great idea and all, but I have two small issues with it.

1) There are people with already an insane amount of posts from just spamming it up in some of the old SOTM threads and the like (or just the current spammers in general). I won't point out any names though.

2) Reputation, to me was a great way to determine which posters had sometimes witty or meaningful posts but if rep is then to be determined by amount of posts, that would be impossible to achieve.

[Daenerys]

2) Reputation, to me was a great way to determine which posters had sometimes witty or meaningful posts but if rep is then to be determined by amount of posts, that would be impossible to achieve.
That's what it always was for me too, now all this self respecting idiots have a ton of rep by "ill rep u backies!"

[Alias-Revolution]

Just to clarify what she it talking about...
http://www.animeforum.com/image/3065047bc452949cd9.bmp (http://www.animeforum.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=26227)
I did my best to keep people anonymous. But this is where the problem stems from. You rep me, I rep you. Simple as that.

[Daenerys]

I bad repped someone for having that in their sig, and they actually took it off. But then they complained about me in another thread. Lol.

[Kariya The Wind]

That person shouldn't have that much Rep.

[MistressPookyChan]

Aren't there other things in the forum to worry about than rep? like.... the wallpaper contest? :D But seriously, I don't get the rep hype.

give hugs (or coffee), not rep. <3

[Ωmega]

It's a great idea and all, but I have two small issues with it.

1) There are people with already an insane amount of posts from just spamming it up in some of the old SOTM threads and the like (or just the current spammers in general). I won't point out any names though.

2) Reputation, to me was a great way to determine which posters had sometimes witty or meaningful posts but if rep is then to be determined by amount of posts, that would be impossible to achieve.
Well, not if the staff decided to be far stricter with whats an acceptable post and what isnt. If it isnt, it gets deleted.

[Myrra]

And Maru-cakes, who will set the standards for what one determines "acceptable"?
If the standards are set to the length of reply, then I'm going to have to delete nearly every post in intro.
And most post in J-pop will also be deleted and I think a fair amount of post in nearly every other forum on this site.

My definition of acceptable and yours are not likely to agree.

And I'm getting sick and tired of everyone in this thread bashing me and what I have chosen to allow in J-pop. If you don't like it, don't post there!
Unlike the majority here, I really don't care about reps. And if you don't believe me, go look around and see what I've given away in reps. I generally use it as a first line option when people are new and violating rules in my forums so as not to go directly to the warns.
I also don't care about points or ribbons/gifts, etc. Those things are here to make it fun for people, but you are all determined to suck the fun out of everything.
I've been here for ages and you've no hope of being rid of me. I'm here daily for several hours a day, and in the last 3 years, I've taken a break from AF only twice. Once was for a 4 day weekend (and I was online more than once during that break) and the last was this past Christmas and I took a 2 week holiday.
I hear enough whining in my work...no, wait, the little preschoolers don't whine nearly this much! But then again, you do expect small children to whine on occasion. I'm sick of reading it on here. And I'm going to exercise my rights and ignore this thread and the people in it from now on.

[Alias-Revolution]

Be my guest, Myrra. You'll be ignoring possibly 80&#37; of the decent posters on AF. In my opinion, no-one here is bashing you or your forum, but bashing the spammers therein.

We are not determined to suck the fun out of the rep and points, but to put the fun and some meaning back into it. Are we really whining? Some are, but others are trying to find a viable solution.

It's great that you're here, and it's great that you put so much time into your job here, but contrary to your opinion stated above, we are not trying to rid AF of you. Everyone loves you, and you know it. =P

[Ωmega]

And Maru-cakes, who will set the standards for what one determines "acceptable"?
If the standards are set to the length of reply, then I'm going to have to delete nearly every post in intro.
And most post in J-pop will also be deleted and I think a fair amount of post in nearly every other forum on this site.

My definition of acceptable and yours are not likely to agree.

This is very true. And it would probably push members away from the site too -__-;;

Well, then I guess just a reset. And then, instead of getting a bad rep, a warning would be given.

Eh, I dont really care anymore. Im just gonna keep doing my job with whatever resources I have as warnings.

[Daenerys]

Which just means that we'll probably be giving out more infractions for swearing than just bad repping.

Which I'm not really a fan of, because I'm trying not to be an infraction-ho. I've hardly given out 1 a month lately. I like that.

[genericusername2]

Do not reset the rep system. Doing so may solve a few peoples problems, but in return others will get upset about it.

Scrap the rep system completely, or just leave it as it is.

[Inamorata]

I say free icon/avatar/gifts (whatever they are called) XD!! Lets all be rich forum people! YAY!@!@$#@

o.o oh wait this thread is about rep... well... I still think the free gifts is a good idea.. v.v;

[Azel]

Stupid joke. No one found it funny. So pretty much just deleted it.

[Kariya The Wind]

And Maru-cakes, who will set the standards for what one determines "acceptable"?
If the standards are set to the length of reply, then I'm going to have to delete nearly every post in intro.
And most post in J-pop will also be deleted and I think a fair amount of post in nearly every other forum on this site.

My definition of acceptable and yours are not likely to agree.

And I'm getting sick and tired of everyone in this thread bashing me and what I have chosen to allow in J-pop. If you don't like it, don't post there!
Unlike the majority here, I really don't care about reps. And if you don't believe me, go look around and see what I've given away in reps. I generally use it as a first line option when people are new and violating rules in my forums so as not to go directly to the warns.
I also don't care about points or ribbons/gifts, etc. Those things are here to make it fun for people, but you are all determined to suck the fun out of everything.
I've been here for ages and you've no hope of being rid of me. I'm here daily for several hours a day, and in the last 3 years, I've taken a break from AF only twice. Once was for a 4 day weekend (and I was online more than once during that break) and the last was this past Christmas and I took a 2 week holiday.
I hear enough whining in my work...no, wait, the little preschoolers don't whine nearly this much! But then again, you do expect small children to whine on occasion. I'm sick of reading it on here. And I'm going to exercise my rights and ignore this thread and the people in it from now on.
QFT, this stuff is just to make the site more fun and unique, but you see little cliques of friends spending like, 20,000 points just to layer each other with gifts so that they "look better".

[Jose]

However, when members corrupt it and use it too much, it becomes a niucense.

EDIT: On another note, while some beleive the point of my last post was a direct attack, I can assure you it was not. The intent of the post was to demonstrate both good and bad rep reasons. The post has been edited.

And who are you judge how the MAJORITY of the forum uses the rep system anyway, I understand that you could be a little upset and it might annoy you. If you really find it such a a flawed system then ignore it, same things goes for the rupees syetem, live and let live is what I always say.


If you didn't care, you wouldn't have had half a million rep points to begin with.

At least Kishiro and Alias are honest about how they're upset about people misusing the rep system. You, you worked the proverbial street corner for rep and now you wanna pretend you have no idea how you got so much rep. Lemme guess, you were just giving all those members directions is all.

I don't care that you wanna be a rep 'ho, but at least be honest about it.

Not really I know where and when and how I gained all of my rep, you can ask anyone of my friends. I have ONLY asked ONCE for rep and that was to my closes friend to reset my rep. I know that most of my reps did come from the JPOP threads, however I also received countless number of reps, in the post you pictures thread, and the secret admire threads. I know I'm not a rep ho but then again you are entitled to your own opinion.




And I'm getting sick and tired of everyone in this thread bashing me and what I have chosen to allow in J-pop. If you don't like it, don't post there!
Unlike the majority here, I really don't care about reps. And if you don't believe me, go look around and see what I've given away in reps. I generally use it as a first line option when people are new and violating rules in my forums so as not to go directly to the warns.
I also don't care about points or ribbons/gifts, etc. Those things are here to make it fun for people, but you are all determined to suck the fun out of everything.

True I almost see it as they are trying to limit my freedom to rep for any reason I please, I don't remember reading a rule anywhere saying that we should limit our repping. Next thing you know people will ask for the administrators to deleted all the gifts, because some members think that the "Gift system is meaning used for no reason, and they will call some gifts (rep spam=gift spam.) I think Ron[Bean] was correct in his first post. If the administrators do give in the childlike demands of a forum-wide reset, it will be same thing as give a mouse a cookie, they will soon want more and the know they will get it there way. In the end from what I heard the only reset we ever have had was a rupee reset and that was only because almost every member had over a million points, ask yourself, do you really think that the reps system has been blowned to such proportions? If you do then I'm sorry to say that I think that you are sadly mistaken.

[MomijiTMO]

QFT, this stuff is just to make the site more fun and unique, but you see little cliques of friends spending like, 20,000 points just to layer each other with gifts so that they "look better".
Well I didn't get my gifts in one go and didn't get them all from the same people. Even though no one has mentioned me, I can't help but feel that the lot of you severely disagree with my stats etc. Well I'm sorry people repped the crap out of me and I'm sorry if I get some awesome luck in BJ and ZOMG sorry if my gifts bug the heck out of you.

If you chat legends would have all stayed active on the forums, you would have ten times my rep. I know a lot of the older (and wiser) members who post in the forums have not got the reputation they should have. However, trying to make sure that they do is WAY to idealistic and best kept in fantasy novels. It's never going to happen.

Oh yeah SoTM was approved by Myrra and since it's her forum she wins. I doubt she never though this allowed spam would be so popular and she sure as hell didn't think that she would have to give out so many infractions for swearing/sex talks that often occurred in it. People were flamed every day (I flamed someone once) and the effort to go through 20 pages a day would have been hell. 99% of the people who have a lot of rep now got it through SoTM, even the ones who have come here to attack Jose and Hama (you know who you are). I do recall Myrra posting somewhere that people were not happy about the amount of reputation given out in the game threads and continual protest was another reason why they were closed. Fair enough I say.


It's an anime forum and is meant to be fun. Sure the ones in charge could change some things here and there but to pout over rep, points and gifts is a little absurd. I understand the members who actively participate in this forum complaining (the mods, the chat admin and people like Eris, Sagat, Hatake, Cap and Gandizzl) because I see them posting. However people who have kinda left/took a break from the forum for a year really can't expect to still have high rep etc.

At the end of the day, I'm at a loss. AF isn't as fun as it used to be because people complained. Now people are complaining and I wonder how fun it will end up if there are no points, rep and gifts.

[Jose]

\ I think Ron[Bean] was correct in his first post. If the administrators do give in the childlike demands of a forum-wide reset, it will be same thing as give a mouse a cookie, they will soon want more and the know they will get it there way.




At the end of the day, I'm at a loss. AF isn't as fun as it used to be because people complained. Now people are complaining and I wonder how fun it will end up if there are no points, rep and gifts.

I agree, I think that the time might come when some member will get mad at not only the rep that was exchanged (rep-reset) in SoTM but the post them selfs, I do not doubt that the time will come that the wish the entire forum to be reset because of some jealously issue they have. I do understand why they would be mad but to go as far to ask for a reset I think it is a little bit ridiculous, I mean just how many people are helped if it is reset. I also atm (at the moment) many members are leaving AF in direct result of this thread, image just how many would leave if the reset would happen. I dare to take a look in the blogs or intro forum for something labeled leaving AF.

[Sagat]

I also atm (at the moment) many members are leaving AF in direct result of this thread, image just how many would leave if the reset would happen. I dare to take a look in the blogs or intro forum for something labeled leaving AF.

If that is the case, I dare say that this is a good thing.

[Princess Minako]

If people are going to leave over a rep reset thats pathetic. No one left when the rupees got dumped, why would they do it over some green bars? With the rupees at least you could GET something for it, name change, forum access, colors etc.

If you're really that upset about reputation, I think you need to take a step back and reevaluate your basis of self worth. People leaving a forum over non-administrators arguing over a rep reset is stupid.

In the end its a decision that KAITOU and I make. We will make a decision based on what is best for the forum overall.

Just an FYI, the two of us haven't even discussed the topic yet... its so far down on our list of things to do its not even funny. This has gotten so far out of hand, grow up.

The Goddess has Spoken.

[Ichiro Matsuchani]

The whole rep thing became meaningless when it became a whole "i gotz a bigger numbah den ju" contest. They didn't really mean anything in the first place, since there aren't any real prizes for having a high rep power.

Remember back in the day when most of the respectable users had full RED bars of rep? Didn't mean anything then, so I don't see why it's any different now.

[Memento Mori]

I also atm (at the moment) many members are leaving AF in direct result of this thread, image just how many would leave if the reset would happen. I dare to take a look in the blogs or intro forum for something labeled leaving AF.

That's quite ignorant of you to say such a thing. No one with a fraction of a brain cell would leave the forum simply because their rep went down! I mean, PLEASE.

[Jose]

That's quite ignorant of you to say such a thing. No one with a fraction of a brain cell would leave the forum simply because their rep went down! I mean, PLEASE.

I'm not saying that they will leave because of there rep being reduced, I re-read it and it did sound like that. However I did mean this so called "rep war" not the rep itself is driving some members away. I have received like 5 pm of members saying the rep war is pointless (agreed) and that they will jut leave the forum until it is over. They don't care about the reps itself it is more the argument that has been placed on the rep system, I do agree that the previous post was somewhat ignorant.

[Antares]

I also atm (at the moment) many members are leaving AF in direct result of this thread, image just how many would leave if the reset would happen. I dare to take a look in the blogs or intro forum for something labeled leaving AF.

Really? I haven't noticed people saying they are leaving because of this rep business. And if they are thinking it, I agree with Memento Mori, that's kind of a dumb reason.

[Memento Mori]

I'm not saying that they will leave because of there rep being reduced, I re-read it and it did sound like that. However I did mean this so called "rep war" not the rep itself is driving some members away. I have received like 5 pm of members saying the rep war is pointless (agreed) and that they will jut leave the forum until it is over. They don't care about the reps itself it is more the argument that has been placed on the rep system, I do agree that the previous post was somewhat ignorant.

Well then tell them if they don't like the whole rep war, they can avoid getting involved, it isn't THAT hard to do on this site. Just tell them to STAY OUT OF THE ISSUE. They don't have to be part of it. I know members who regularly visit chat who don't even know this is going on!

[Sanosuke23]

Well then tell them if they don't like the whole rep war, they can avoid getting involved, it isn't THAT hard to do on this site. Just tell them to STAY OUT OF THE ISSUE. They don't have to be part of it. I know members who regularly visit chat who don't even know this is going on!

I can second this, someone asked me about it this morning. I had to explain it.

I gotta say though, then after explaining it, somebody then complained that I shouldn't care about it so much, even though I was explaining the situation to someone in a neutral manner(Me: "Some people are complaining about other people exploiting the rep system." Other Person not even listening to the convo: "Why do you people care?" Me: "I was explaining because he asked, I personally don't care about who has what rep." Them: "Oh.")

Seem to me if more people ON ALL SIDES OF THE ARGUMENT(even neutral) listened instead of immediately jumping on people, this wouldn't be a "rep war" and instead it would be more of a simple, if heated, discussion.

[-Batman-]

@Jose
Members: 129,053
Yeah, the forum is reaallly feeling the losses in it's member base from this thread.

[MistressPookyChan]

Myrra, I'm standing by your side. I think people are taking the rep thing too serious. What about people in wallpapers that give rep for contest submissions, comments on wallpapers, etc etc? Even contest I start, I always get a couple of good reps. It shows me that people appreciate what I'm doing and are showing interest in what I'm doing.

If you like what someone said, or want to say "thank you", then you give them rep. That's what I always thought the rep was for.

[Exquiro]

That's what I always thought the rep was for.

That -is- what the rep system is for. The point is that people aren't using it for that and things like "return reps" and "random reps" are cropping up repeatedly. I think some people are getting a little worked up about this, though. We've already bashed the main rep spammers, that was enough for me.

[Alias-Revolution]

Indeed, the system is nothing to lose an arm over. It's no reason to leave the forum, and if you just don't care, ignore the issue completely instead of posting here. No-one here who DOES care about rep cares about those who DON'T care's opinion. Did that make sense? o.O;

I assume the rep system was re-done when the rupees were re-done. It seems as though before that, rep power was hard to accumulate. Rep was given to people because their posts were appreciated, or because their posts were intelligent. Very seldom were random reps given out. Anyone who was rep spamming would give up sooner or later because it took way too long to accumulate high rep power. The eleven green boxes were something to be proud of on the forum. Heh... I remember when Princess Ai lost all her green rep boxes. *laughs slightly* Before I was neg repped for stealing, I only had 4 green boxes, but I was damn proud of them because all my rep was from 1 of 2 things: Good posts, or rate&rep. Even the Rate&Rep threads didn't get people huge rep powers. Green bars took forever to get, and in my opinion, that made the system enjoyable.

The system is just a fun addition to AF. It used to be fun to get good reps. Every time I got new reps I had to go see if my rep bar had gone up. All my friends had high reps. Of course, all my friends at the time were mods. I never asked them for rep because I felt, and still feel, that rep is something that should be earned through intelligent posting, and intellectual points.

I've lost heart for this issue. If the rep system isn't going to be fun again, and it's not going to change, why even bother? I've posted here every day (as have many others), many viable solutions have been presented, and Princess Minako basically said "Shut up, nothing is going to change." Sorry all, but untill something I read here sparks my interest, I'm out.

Good luck, and I truely do hope something will change.

[Acnologia]

I say people need to stop being so goddamn immature and fighting over a bunch of bloody pixils on an internet site.

[Memento Mori]

I say people need to stop being so goddamn immature and fighting over a bunch of bloody pixils on an internet site.

I second this.

[demonplight]

I have been here for a while, off mostly off, and on. but until I read this thing in is entirety, I couldn't help but notice that well I never actually paid attention to reps, and gifts. actually the first time I saw gifts I looked at them them bought my self the cancer one, because I support lung cancer. I didn't know that you where to buy them for other people. oops. but as with the rep thing, I generally don't notice them, so what is the point, I think most people like me just come to talk to people when they get out of school and work.
on the other hand, if you use them as punishment, how does it work with inflation? I did look, and I found red bars, small bars, and no bars.
what is it's point?

Now i did notice a 22&#37; (that would be 10 out 0f 45 points then think of another person with lets say 1706 points 22% about 375 points, or the standard 10 would just be a joke at .0058%) reduction in my points harsh for a using a bad word (if these are that important I just got raped seeing as I still found only one curse in it that being in the quote and its self), and I did just notice that, apparently if they are to be used to determine who says things that are witty, and insightful, should the weight of the point reduction be taken in mind. I noticed that there was this kid who just joined, and he was beaten down in his first couple days. if people can give good one's and bad one's and mods in turn can do the same... what is the point? In my opinion looking at this it is just a way of beating someone down, or making popular people more popular. but then in a few days I will probably disappear for a month or two then come back.

In addition, if people do care about the rep points, then they may be less willing to say what they think and fell because they are afraid of being bad repped for just thinking different. a forum is to be a place where people should be allowed to voice their opinions what ever that may be with out reprisal. the rep system appears to just be a way in which people can do just that. are reps creating a powerful group, and a weaker group? victims? if so I would say that it too need to be moderated. official punishment aside.
I can site one case I looked at one user, and a bad rep, and it was from an abortion thread, and mostly benign comment, that was the slightest to the left. I don't understand.
in addition ( keep editing this post) I live in the Misc section because it is interesting, I rarely go out of it. I looked at a couple of profiles, and noticed that most people get good reps from people who agree with liking the same series. explain how this system work, you like the same series i do have a rep, you don't agree with me on a social issue, take a hit? so a person who loves an anime and stays in that forum gets a rep of 1000000000000000000 and a person who's second comment is about a social issue gets 0 and big red bar?
one word hypocrisy.

Now I enjoy this place as much as the next guy, but apparently their is a problem. I have seen this place grow, and I have seen it change. Seen new mods, and old mods. people move to Japan, and people come to America. 100,000 people are drawn here. if this system pushes them out, then I will see this place wither, and people people go, and mods go. until their is one person with all the reps in the world. and no one to give him/her a bad one. but then that may be the point in a system that promotes people, and punishes people. their is after all only room for one person on the top.

[Kiss of Death]

personaly I think that everyone of us has a head on his/hers shoulders and cant thing give reps or not. and i dont believe in that when i get bad reps i have to give bad reps too to person who gave me them (confusing). if i get bad reps i always trying to get better and not blame others. sure, if person didnt understood, it's his/hers problem, but i'll try to explain and not to giwe bad reps couse he/she didnt get it

[Inamorata]

I agree.

Personally- I'd like it if the option was just to comment on that particular post with no good or bad rep points included... I don't really care for the actual points. Or- the whole putting the rep back to zero after the end of the week/month, that idea I like.

Agreed. I think some people take this rep deal too seriously. Also I agree with Ace's last recomendation. Its a good idea to probably just ban rep from certain threads. Or maybe you should just start giving out warnings to spammers, potty mouths, ect.. and or ban them. o.o; Rep is kind of a excuse to get away with things. Or to just bad mouth someone.

[demonplight]

I think that some oversight should be adopted where someone or a group of some ones can remove a bad rep if it found to be inappropriate. like a judicial system, in which if a person has a legitimate problem with a bad rep, then they can argue to have it removed. With rules for defining whether or not a rep should be removed in place, one could simply message this group of mods, where they could read a brief explanation, say 3-4 sentences, look at the rep, and the post it refers to, then decide if it should be removed. Mind you this is for the irrelevant one's that are from flaming, and attacking. The reps that are from real complaints will be enforced. In addition they could curve the impact of a bad rep if they have a lower rep power to begin with. this I think is the best way to solve the bad rep issues, as for rep inflation... I'm working on that.

[Daenerys]

The staff DO remove flaming reps. The reps that contain swears or vulgarities, are removed if reported. (If they aren't reported staff never see them.)