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princessofpep
01-04-2008, 09:53 PM
I submitted this wrong at first, so sorry about that ^^;

I guess I have to do this verse by verse? The first translations are the originals, and then after is my translation~


I run past others with a parched heart.
Sorry, I can't do anything.
You won't even let me
Share our pain together.

--I run past you with a thirsty heart.
--Sorry, I couldn't do anything—
--you won't even let us share our pain with each other.The subject is implied (Kyon, ja?) so I changed that, cleaned up the tense and reworded the "au" part so that the subjects agreed.


To live on without tarnish,
I face your back and head out without looking back
on the lonely rail

--In order to live purely
--I face your back and leave without turning back.
--on the lonely railJust artistic differences here, except it is def. not "live on."


I will follow you.
No matter how agonizing the world is,
You will shine even in its darkest corners.
Cross over the end of the future,
My weakness will not shatter my spirit.
my way is overlapping with yours.
For the two of us, God bless...

--I’ll follow you.
--No matter where you are in the darkness of this bitter world
--you will shine,
--and exceed the limits of the future.
--To prevent your spirit from being broken because of your weakness
--you converge with my way.
--Now, God bless us...Almost the whole chorus is referring to "anata," so I changed it to fit. Also, I fixed what "donna" and "sae" were modifying and reworded things.


This warming affection that reaches me,
It melts my reality and roams my heart.
I don't need a reason for wanting to meet you,
Just my overflowing feelings, Lovin' you

--I send my warming feelings—
--they melt reality, then just hover there suspended.
--There's no reason for me wanting to see you.
--I pour my feelings into you, lovin' youHaruhi is sending the feelings here, not the other way around. It's just "riyuu wa nai" so there is no need for "need." Fixed the tense of the last line.


For now, let's paint a beautiful dream
And chase after
for your lonely heart

--Let's at least chase after the beautiful dream we've imagined
--for your lonely heartYou need an "at least" here because of "semete." Changed the wording to convey the meaning a bit better.


Stop it, it's not like you to lie.
Look at my eyes and let's talk about our future.
I am prepared,
Even if the future is bleak,
I might be able to change destiny if I become stronger.
But for my wish to come true,
Everything is God knows...

--Stop it, lying isn't like you.
--Look into my eyes and let's speak of what will be.
--I'm prepared—
--even for a bleak future.
--If you become strong you might even be able to change fate, you know.
--Though I want my wish to be granted,
--God knows everything...Once again, I fixed what verbs were referring to, etc. In particular, the third to last line is directed AT someone else (hence the "ne") so it's subject cannot be I.


You are here, I am here.
Everyone else has disappeared.
While we paint the beauty of this fleeting dream,
We trace out the lines of our scars.

--You're here, and I'm here—
--all the others have disappeared.
--We trace our scars— sketching the beauty of our fleeting dream.This is all artistic.


That's why I will follow you.
No matter how agonizing the world is,
You will shine even in its darkest corners.
Cross over the end of the future,
My weakness will not shatter my spirit.
my way is overlapping with yours.
For the two of us, God bless...

--So, I’ll follow you.
--No matter where you are in the darkness of this bitter world
--you will shine,
--and exceed the limits of the future.
--To prevent your spirit from being broken because of your weakness
--you converge with my way.
--Now, God bless us..."So" is just much more natural here.


My full translation:

I run past you with a thirsty heart.
Sorry, I couldn't do anything—
you won't even let us share our pain with each other.

In order to live purely
I face your back and leave without turning back.
on the lonely rail

I’ll follow you.
No matter where you are in the darkness of this bitter world
you will shine,
and exceed the limits of the future.
To prevent your spirit from being broken because of your weakness
you converge with my way.
Now, God bless us...

I send my warming feelings—
they melt reality, then just hover there suspended.
There's no reason for me wanting to see you.
I pour my feelings into you, lovin' you

Let's at least chase after the beautiful dream we've imagined
for your lonely heart

Stop it, lying isn't like you.
Look into my eyes and let's speak of what will be.
I'm prepared—
even for a bleak future.
If you become strong you might even be able to change fate, you know.
Though I want my wish to be granted,
God knows everything...

You're here, and I'm here—
all the others have disappeared.
We trace our scars— sketching the beauty of our fleeting dream.

So, I’ll follow you.
No matter where you are in the darkness of this bitter world
you will shine,
and exceed the limits of the future.
To prevent your spirit from being broken because of your weakness
you converge with my way.
Now, God bless us...

AzureDark
01-08-2008, 01:48 AM
OK. Seeming as DM doesn't look like he's interested to contest this I'll give my own opinions on this.

Point 1:
>you won't even let us share our pain with each other.
How could that be? The 'wakachiau' part is yes, the both of them, but since 'anata' is mentioned later, it's clearly he's the one alone not wanting to do so. DM left 'sae' though, some points for you.

Point 2:
Fine.

Point 3:
I guess you're right. Nice spot on noticing that
donna tsurai sekai no yami no naka de sae
kitto anata wa kagayaite
koeru mirai no hate
is one sentence.

Point 4:
Yes. The verb form of 'todokete' implies that it's hers. But I don't really think "warming" is a good word to use for 'atsuku naru'...
For the last line, that's an auxiliary sentence that's owned by the noun "Lovin' You" (I know how they treat Engrish so I'm sure of this), you can't really put that into a verbal sentence.

Point 5:
Is there a frightful reason for both of you missing 'dake'? >_>; onoes, if I am the most literal out of the three of us I'd rather die...
It can't be "imagined" because of the '-nagara' though.

Point 6:
once again my literalcy is scaring me... why are you two putting it as if it's 'tsuyoku nattara'? To me that looks like "We may get so strong that we could (even) change our destinies", it would be the reason why it ends with 'ne', because I don't really think it's talking about "you" otherwise.

Point 7:
Both DM and you don't seem to click it really - yours is giving the impression that they meant to trace their scars, they aren't. DM's is just too literal.
When we paint the beauty of this fleeting dream
We're actually tracing our scars

Point 8:
I'd use "thus" : p "That's why" is too long and rigid, "so" would probably fit but doesn't give a strong "hence" 'dakara' should convey.

...>_> can't believe he'd do something like this, he should be up there really. Anyway. just drop a comment to say if you've changed anything or not and I'll change it.

princessofpep
01-08-2008, 08:44 AM
--Point one:
v-au does imply "each other," and though it doesn't 100% HAVE to be included in the translation I can't think of any other not-awkward way to word it. "You won't even let me share our pain together" is something I doubt any English speaker would ever say.

So I stand by "you won't even let us share our pain with each other."

--Point four:
Do you have a better suggestion than "warming?" I almost took the liberty to use "thawing" because it would provide a nice echo to melt, so you can change it to that if you prefer.

As for the "anata e afuredasu Lovin' you," I don't think that "afuredasu" can be a modifier on the clause "Lovin' you" simply because it doesn't make any sense. Or maybe I misunderstand what you mean, but I'm 95% sure that Haruhi is referring to her feelings here, and the "Lovin' you" is just tacked on the end.

--Point five:
The reason I skipped the "dake" is because it's just an auxiliary of "semete" -- so there's no reason to translate it -- it'd just make for awkward English anyways.

I still think you could use imagine for "egaku." I used it here just because I thought it sounded better than "paint" or "illustrate." If you want to be more literal though, you could change it back.

As long as we’re imagining this beautiful dream,
let’s at least chase after it
for your lonely heart

--Point six:
I put "if" just because that's what I felt was implied there, but it is just artistic liberty, so we can ignore it if you want. This is my fav. part of the lyrics ^^ Haruhi is the "God" in this verse -- she's saying Kyon can change fate if he becomes strong, and she does want the love to work, but as God, she already knows that it won't. Awwww. So I still think the "ne" is making it addressed to someone.

To be more literal just go with:

Become strong and you might even be able to change fate, you know.
Though I want my wish to be granted,
God knows everything...

Point seven:
I actually played around with the order a bit here, so I'll just change it to the other option. My sister told me this is referencing a particular episode of the anime -- and I haven't seen it -- so I was a bit unsure I got the whole thing. I think this is better:

By sketching the beauty of our fleeting dream,
we’re just tracing our scars

--Point eight:
I still like "so" best ^^; In an English song you don't really hear "thus" or "hence" being used, so I think it's just the most natural way to translate it? I always try and make it song-like.

--The whole thing---

I run past you with a thirsty heart.
Sorry, I couldn't do anything—
you won't even let us share our pain with each other.

In order to live purely
I face your back and leave without turning back.
on the lonely rail

I’ll follow you.
No matter where you are in the darkness of this bitter world
you will shine,
and exceed the limits of the future.
To prevent your spirit from being broken because of your weakness
you converge with my way.
Now, God bless us...

I send my thawing feelings—
they melt reality, then just hover there suspended.
There's no reason for me wanting to see you.
I pour my feelings into you, lovin' you

As long as we’re imagining this beautiful dream,
let’s at least chase after it
for your lonely heart

Stop it, lying isn't like you.
Look into my eyes and let's speak of what will be.
I'm prepared—
even for a bleak future.
Become strong and you might even be able to change fate, you know.
Though I want my wish to be granted,
God knows everything...

You're here, and I'm here—
all the others have disappeared.
By sketching the beauty of our fleeting dream,
we’re just tracing our scars

So, I’ll follow you.
No matter where you are in the darkness of this bitter world
you will shine,
and exceed the limits of the future.
To prevent your spirit from being broken because of your weakness
you converge with my way.
Now, God bless us...

AzureDark
01-08-2008, 10:16 PM
Rebuttals:

1.
>v-au does imply "each other," and though it doesn't 100% HAVE to be included in the translation I can't think of any other not-awkward way to word it. "You won't even let me share our pain together" is something I doubt any English speaker would ever say.
The -au for each other in
>You won't even let me share our pain together
is in "share". 'yurushite kurenai' is in 'let', and this is especially singular since there's a -te kuru there which implies the action is from only one side, the second person.
Okay, it's probably Haruhi wants to bargain for it and Kyon refuse to do so. But like in real life, usually one side does it and waits for the other to comply; I'm looking at this as a scenario that Haruhi already poured her problems to him but he still refuses to give his. If the scenario you're seeing is that they're trying to do a cross-bargain, then the sentence would have been in past-tense because the deal would already be off.

Then again this is probably a defect of eastern and western English.

4:
'atsui' is in the effect of "burning". Not as hot as 'moeru' but still hot as fire. Then again it's probably not best to turn the heat up in such a mellow song so we should probably use an etymology closer to home, like "raging".
>As for the "anata e afuredasu Lovin' you," I don't think that "afuredasu" can be a modifier on the clause "Lovin' you" simply because it doesn't make any sense. Or maybe I misunderstand what you mean, but I'm 95% sure that Haruhi is referring to her feelings here, and the "Lovin' you" is just tacked on the end.
It. Does.
Yes, it doesn't make sense in English but that's because it's in a different grammatical structure, alien to English.
This is another case of "hanging noun", also a source of translation problem Japanese songs have.
{(watashi no) [(anata e afuredasu) "Lovin' You"]

Lit: (My) "Lovin' You" that starts to overflow towards you
Rev: (My) overflowing loving feelings toward you
and it hangs there.

...alas, on the other hand, let's not be literal and put the sentence as verbal. I'm just showing you the example of how English words are used in Japanese songs, sometimes they're used like this.

5.
The point I'm making for '-nagara' is that to me they're seem to be chasing a dream they're yet to dream of. Hence it can't be a pre-meditated "imagined". Then again this is also utterly literal.

6.
Now hang on a minute. My reasoning for "we" based on 'ne' is also that I doubt this song was sung "IC(in-char)", because it'd be narcissistic for Haruhi to want the blessing of herself of their love in the first place! Then again what god is not.
My reasoning for grouping "get strong" in with the fate-changing is because of the -te there which means 'naru' should take the next verb's tense which is potential, but again, maybe too literal, since you really need strength to change fate.

7.
Nicely done.

8.
I guess taking your reasoning that's okay...

...That's why I never want to translate Aki Hata songs. She rapes our t/ling brains like wow.

I'll wait for some more time, I guess I'll accept it now, you can still discuss the above with me though.

princessofpep
01-09-2008, 12:44 AM
1.
Umm, I'm not sure what you mean here. My reasoning:

痛みを分かち合う | こと | さえ
share our pain with each other [nominalizer] [limit setting-sae]
あなたは許して | くれない
you won't permit [for my sake]

= you won't even let us share our pain with each other

4. pt.1
There really isn't one perfect translation for the 熱い... wait. Ahaha, I just found the answer to this one in my built in kanji dict. Under the example "熱い思い" it provides the equivalent "熱意" which means enthusiasm or zeal. Zeal + hot + love = passion, yea? And instead of "becoming" which is awkward in English, let's use a time phrase instead =

I send my now passionate feelings—

4. pt.2
I understand sentence structure can be reversed in Japanese grammar, but I still think the topic here is set by the previous line:

会いたい気持ちに理由はない
[その気持ちは] あなたへ溢れ出す Lovin' you =
I pour my feelings into you, lovin' you

5.
I don't get this point either, as I see no evidence for the dream being a work in progress. There's no としたが or まだ予想できなかった-esque phrase here.

But here's my reasoning:

せめて | 美しい夢だけを描き | ながら
[limit setting sae] we're painting/imagining this beautiful dream [aux.] | [while]
追いかけよう
let's chase after it

= As long as we’re painting/imagining this beautiful dream, let’s at least chase after it

6.
て-form doesn't really absorb the tense of the following clause. Also, I'm choosing "you" here because it's the most open ended pronoun, and I think this line can be addressed to Kyon, the listener, or even Haruhi.

強くなって | 運命[を]変えられるかもね
become strong [imperative/connective] | and one might be able to change fate [addressing listener]

= Become strong and you might even be able to change fate, you know.


...........

Full version=
I run past you with a thirsty heart.
Sorry, I couldn't do anything—
you won't even let us share our pain with each other.

In order to live purely
I face your back and leave without turning back.
on the lonely rail

I’ll follow you.
No matter where you are in the darkness of this bitter world
you will shine,
and exceed the limits of the future.
To prevent your spirit from being broken because of your weakness
you converge with my way.
Now, God bless us...

I send my now passionate feelings—
they melt reality, then just hover there suspended.
There's no reason for me wanting to see you.
I pour my feelings into you, lovin' you

As long as we’re imagining this beautiful dream,
let’s at least chase after it
for your lonely heart

Stop it, lying isn't like you.
Look into my eyes and let's speak of what will be.
I'm prepared—
even for a bleak future.
Become strong and you might even be able to change fate, you know.
Though I want my wish to be granted,
God knows everything...

You're here, and I'm here—
all the others have disappeared.
By sketching the beauty of our fleeting dream,
we’re just tracing our scars

So, I’ll follow you.
No matter where you are in the darkness of this bitter world
you will shine,
and exceed the limits of the future.
To prevent your spirit from being broken because of your weakness
you converge with my way.
Now, God bless us...

AzureDark
01-09-2008, 05:25 AM
The problem with 1. is the subject of the first line, which is omitted like the usual problem these Japanese sentences have. To you it's "us" and supported by 'wakachiau'. To me it's possible for a singular noun to use an -au verb provided supporting nouns follow. Then, in this sentence you yourself supplied
>you won't permit [for my sake]
"for my sake" is usurped into
>you won't even let (me) share our pain with each other

4.2 It's _not_ about sentence structure reversal which you and I know but unfortunately not a lot do. But you've inferred what's missing from the line above which is good t/ling anyway. I wasn't saying you're completely wrong, but it was too natural for a hanging noun to be in this.

5. Didn't really notice how you worked around the sentence such that it needed the tense change... stupid ol me

6. Aki Hata also did this for Kaibutsu Oujo OP (http://www.animelyrics.com/anime/kaibutsuoujo/bloodqueen.htm) which I did... oh gawd. I did the same thing too.

OK you win. Geez, why are the most awesome, tenacious and articulate translators have to be girls?

princessofpep
01-09-2008, 07:32 AM
Geez, why are the most awesome, tenacious and articulate translators have to be girls?
There is academic work on this idea ^^ The article I read was in a pretty derogatory sense: that women aren't good enough to write, just to translate. But it was a very old article as well, and I think it was from Japan. I can't recall now though.

I wonder if more work has been done though, I'd be interested in reading it.