The perfect MMO

[Fenrisulfer]

I want to hear from all of you guys( and gals) what, if you could make an MMO, what would you do with it. what features would it have, how would it be played. I want to know what you think the perfect MMO should have. Like whether it whould be an RPG or FPS or whatever. Me personally would have to say RPG because thats the kind of guy i am. so please post away.

[Orca]

well most MMOS are usually rpg, unless you can name an MMO FPS which im not sure there is any. none come to mind.

well for me first off it would have to be free and worth playing. thats about it.

now if i was the one creating it, i'd be in RPG custom character creation a nice variaty of classes, most likely set in a FFX time outlook. Meaning a bit futuristic but still using swords. Quests would follow a basic storyline, though some quests will need a party. Parties being up 3 or 6 depending on the quest. nothing to big because of lag. but yeah that just a small concept. dont feel like getting really to much in depth right now. ><; a bit sleepy.

[Unknownymous]

Haha. This has been on my mind ever since we left RO years ago. Here's what my "perfect" MMORPG would be like. Be warned, this is the view of somebody who really loves roleplay.

1. Dynamic world run by players. This is most important. There would be no stupid quests that everybody has to do to progress in the storyline. I mean, come on. If the guy that talked to that NPC before you did the same "please help me recover my lost item" quest, why are you doing it again for the NPC? That's just stupid. The NPC never even leaves that spot, so how did he lose it in some faraway map?

That being said, the dynamic world run by players involves absolutely no NPCs. That's right. Every job, every person, would be a player. King ruling the kingdom is a player. His bodyguards are all players. Merchants to buy and sell stuff from are all players. People that give quests are players. Bandits on the roads are all players. People actually have "jobs", as in, the blacksmith needs raw materials for making stuff, so there has to be miners to supply him with goods. If there's a drop in the productivity of the miners, there's a drop in the productivity of the blacksmith too. So his customers ask the blacksmith what's up, and the blacksmith can ask an adventurer to go check out what's up with the miners. You see the miners sitting around the outside of the mine, and they'll tell you there's a monster inside the mine near where the important metals are. Etc., etc. You get the idea.

Ultima Online did something similar to that, with people having more jobs than just monster-killers. You want to be a dressmaker? Go ahead. You like tending sheep? Go to the sheep pen. You want to chop wood and sell it to carpenters? There's lots of trees in the forest. That kind of thing. We're not limited to the endless fights with the endless monsters. In fact, we should be allowed to never have to fight at all, if we don't want to. I mean, come on. Why does a dressmaker have to fight goblins or something, just to make clothes?

This way, people can actually focus on "roleplay", and it's not just a grindfest of people trying to become the best PVPer or whatnot.

Additionally, considering the dynamic world, there is no storyline to follow. The world turns as it would in real life, except that we're all in a fantasy world. Eventually the king may decide to do something like start a war with another nation, or raise taxes and cause people to revolt, or something like that, which is where the players decide how the story flows.

That being said, I don't want to play a game and see the story unfold. I want to be part of the people that make the story happen. Everybody can be involved, even the beggars on the street would be affected when a major game event happens.


2. No level system: no grind. Personally, I think the level system is stupid in an MMORPG. It causes people to try to be the best, leading to ultimately boring gameplay. I mean, come on. What's exciting about having to fight 30 million monsters to reach max level? By the time you're grinding the last 29 million monsters, they're all too easy that you're falling asleep at your keyboard. And when you reach max level, then what? Bragging rights to say that you're higher level than that other guy that plays one hour less than you a day, and he's level 98?

Instead of that, it'll be a skills-based system. Ultima Online did this right. By practicing and using your skills repeatedly, you get better at them. The better you are at them, the more complicated the tasks you can do, and the better quality of your work. It doesn't matter what kind of work you're doing. Whether you're fishing, raising farm animals, or even writing scrolls. If you're good at it, you can make a living out of it.


3. No idiots allowed. The bane of any MMORPG community is idiots. Even with the best gameplay, the best battle system, the best unique features, the best graphics, all of that goes to waste if your game is overrun with annoying people whose purpose in life seems to be to piss you off.

That being said, the perfect MMORPG for me would have a strict application system. Only people that are guaranteed not to be annoying idiots will be allowed to play. Because even the bandits, thieves and murderers will be players in the game. If you have somebody stupid enough to disrupt the proper and delicate gameplay balance, it stops being fun and ends up being something that all the other players will complain about.

But if it were even a mass murderer, if he were doing it the proper way, it becomes an enjoyable hunt where guards and adventurers try to bring down this insane bloodthirsty killer, who hides out in the woods with a band of thugs around him.

That kind of thing. Rather than something stupid like:
Murderer (idiot): lololo u sux i pwned u now u dead cuz u sux & i rox
Bystander: That man you murdered was just a bard. He isn't even a fighter. He just sings songs here in the fountain square.
Murderer (idiot): shutup ur stupid he jus tsux i kill u now 2
Murderer (idiot) begins attacking Bystander.

Get it? I don't know if anybody else understands me on this point, but I had to bring it out. It really bugs me about the way MMO's are run these days.


4. Freedom. This is closely-related and in fact, intertwined with #1. Players should never be forced to build their characters a certain way simply because it's "the most effective". There should never be cases like:

Spears are stronger than swords, so never use swords.

Fire elemental magic does more damage to (blablabla) so you should only use your fire elements and ignore everything else.

Use steel armor because it absorbs more damage than leather armor.


While all those things may be true, ultimately a player should not be forced to use them. There will be alternate ways to get around your problems, therefore you are not limited to using just those solutions.

For example, if somebody really likes using whips as a weapon, even if they do very low damage against heavily-armored enemies, then that person should practice a different aspect of the whip to combat heavily-armored enemies, which might be grabbing or strangulation. Or even using the whip to drive large animals that can simply crush the enemies.

Another example: what if a carpenter really enjoys making woodworked chairs? They're useless other than for decoration in a house, and the carpenter may be better off making actual houses themselves, as his friends are advising him. Because everybody knows, building houses is where the real money is at when you're a carpenter. But because he works so well at his chairs, they're becoming famous all across the kingdom, so much that the local lord decides he wants to buy some of his chairs, but only if he makes them out of a special kind of wood fit for nobility. So a quest begins, etc. Carpenter didn't have to build houses just to make money. He stuck with what he liked to do.

That sort of thing. Learning to use whatever you want to use will bring forth different kinds of benefits, maybe even greater than just using what everybody says is best.

Included in this freedom involves being able to equip anything we want. I mean, just because I'm a healer doesn't mean I have to equip those old gnarled staffs. What if I want to be a healer that likes archery? Or a healer that uses two large swords? Even if I won't be as effective with such weapons as an actual archer or a warrior, at least let me wear them and make use of them. By allowing me to practice with the weapons, I might end up being really good with them, and developing my own style of using them.



As you can see, I've put a lot of thought into this stuff. I've been thinking about it and discussing it with my friends and my sister, also a MMOGer, for years. As it is now, there's no MMO that even comes close to half of what I'd like to see. I understand it's going to be impossible to achieve such standards, and may be impossible unless some game developers decide they should make a game that isn't about money. That's probably because I'm asking for a lot. I'm asking for an alternate universe where we can do anything we want, especially the things that we aren't allowed to or can never really do in real life, such as fight cave trolls, or mine in a volcano, or sing enchanting songs with a lute and grab the hearts of every woman in town. That kind of thing.

It's asking a lot, but... when you think about it, wasn't creating an alternate universe the original intention of RPGs anyway?

[Kloud_Seven]

You and I have pretty much the same vision for what we want to see in a MMO, it’s almost scary really. Balancing out an MMO of this magnitude would take years to execute successfully. People seem to think that WoW is what a true MMO is, when In reality, It’s only the tip of the Ice Berg of the endless possibilities of what a MMO can really be.

I have thought about this for a while, just as you have, and I go crazy trying to figure out how everything will balance, perhaps I’ll send you a PM and share some of my thoughts.



Edit-This is for the guy who posted above me. I thought he was the thread creator.

[Unknownymous]

Haha lol. Good, at least I'm not the only one who thinks there should be a game like that.

To me, the closest as any MMO has ever been to that was Ultima Online. It wasn't really close as it didn't have a lot of the features I'm looking for, but it was satisfactory. I would've continued playing if I weren't annoyed by some of the community.

I'm still hoping for such a game. I was thinking, if I ever became rich, I'd hire myself a bunch of dedicated professionals that also think the same way, and we'd work on this project. It may not be too popular among the general public, because obviously it's only appealing to true roleplayers, but at least it sounds like something that would draw out possibly every good roleplayer on the planet. And then we'd have a real roleplay community.

[Kloud_Seven]

Haha lol. Good, at least I'm not the only one who thinks there should be a game like that.

To me, the closest as any MMO has ever been to that was Ultima Online. It wasn't really close as it didn't have a lot of the features I'm looking for, but it was satisfactory. I would've continued playing if I weren't annoyed by some of the community.

I'm still hoping for such a game. I was thinking, if I ever became rich, I'd hire myself a bunch of dedicated professionals that also think the same way, and we'd work on this project. It may not be too popular among the general public, because obviously it's only appealing to true roleplayers, but at least it sounds like something that would draw out possibly every good roleplayer on the planet. And then we'd have a real roleplay community.



I pretty much said the same thing to my friend a few weeks ago, which was “If I get rich, I can make this happen”. I honestly think that it would appeal to many people, just due to the fact that the player can make a living from just about anything, if their skills are good enough. Any who, I have some really good ideas on paper, I have an awesome idea that is better than a horrible leveling system.

Hahaha, It’s top secret stuff.

[Orca]

Sure but how many people would want to be a begger on the street? This would also lead to over population of jobs? So making money would be hard. Whats to stop one player to sell his goods cheaper than another? Nothing would, as for having Kings and what not. How would you decide who gets to be a King? Then you'd have a problem if so and so wants to be the same thing. Then the basic thing you didnt want would happen. Competition leading to PvP and who wants to be the best.

I mean it really is a good idea no doubt, but I just think you shouldnt make a game feel like real life. Then what would be the point of playing it when you can go out and do it yourself? Of course you'd probably not get the job intended to get. As for getting rid of idiots. . . now that would be nearly impossible, because people will usually act that way when something comes up. Plus whats to stop racism? Will there be ADMINS? I understand wanting a full player created MMORPG, which is why you insisted on it be strict but you know theres still alot of kinks.

You have a pretty good idea here, i like what you were going on about the whips, they should have that in games in general not just MMORPGS, Oh and im not trying to put anything negative or anything. Just stating some minor problems and what not.

[Unknownymous]

Actually no. That's why the application system is in place. Only roleplayers would be allowed to play, that means that people won't always choose just the most lucretive of jobs. It's for people who want to live a different life than what they're living IRL. You'd be surprised about how many people actually roleplayed beggars well on UO. There were even guides to how to roleplay it best on various fansites and forums.

I dunno about you, but again, for roleplayers like me, the idea of playing RPGs is to be able to do something different from what you normally do in real life. Most people only translate this into being able to duel with other people, fight monsters etc. People like me and my roleplayer friends translate this into exploring wilderness or travelling from city to city singing a song for my dinner and maybe a swig of ale, or the like.

If you can't understand that, no offense, but this game isn't for you. Kloud_Seven obviously understands, and so will other true RPers. I am one, and have been for years even ever since D&D, and I have a circle of friends that are like me. Call me geeky if you want, but it's just the way we think.

After all, this isn't a thread for the perfect MMO period. It's a thread for what we personally think/what our opinion is on what the perfect MMO would be like. You're not obliged to agree if you don't want to. :D

[[BlackDeath]]

3. No idiots allowed. The bane of any MMORPG community is idiots. Even with the best gameplay, the best battle system, the best unique features, the best graphics, all of that goes to waste if your game is overrun with annoying people whose purpose in life seems to be to piss you off.You can thank WoW for that. Sure most games had it's fare share of them but ever since WoW the quality of MMO players have dropped significantly. normal age group of MMO players were 20+ now due to WoW we get like 12+ players.

As for perfect MMO.

Most MMO's lack activities, a large scale war or event for the whole server on a more regular basis -say once a week- would be nice.

Better variety of quests not just 'kill this mob, kill this mob and collect drop, go here and there', they are all essentially the same and all repetitive so better variety would do nicely there and not to mention plentiful amount of quests to stop long grinding hours.

There also isn't much story, a bit more thought into that. Having an actual story back ground with a little more depth can make it more interesting. Say learning new things as your progress.

A nice variety of skills. I have played many MMO's and all lack a good variety of skills, sure they have lots of classes and jobs but only a handful of skills can be used and most of them are just more powerful versions of another skill. To add to that skill animation sequences.

Balance to classes, often you'll find that classes are always unbalanced in some ways.

[Unknownymous]

Yeah I heard that about WoW too. I never played because I didn't like the look of the graphics (not that it's ugly, but it's not my style), and the rumors about a bad community made me not want to play it either.

[Regex]

;1920347']You can thank WoW for that. Sure most games had it's fare share of them but ever since WoW the quality of MMO players have dropped significantly. normal age group of MMO players were 20+ now due to WoW we get like 12+ players.

You know why that is?

Because Blizzard did an incredible job creating an MMO that people will like. You will not be able to avoid this. Everquest never had this bad of a community because it was a game that was not fun to play. If you create a game that is fun to play, lots of people will join, including a large number of people that are annoying.

As with anything in the world that has a large following, you have to learn to ignore the people you hate.

[-Batman-]

Personally, I don't feel WoW has a bad community.
I've played tons of MMO's, many of which had "Mature" 20+ members, but those MMO's were all short lived and dead within a year and a half tops. And due to the small amount of users, it was like these games were barren and desolate...Oh wait, they were.

I actually like the annoying little kids who talk about non-trade things in trade channal. I like the mess that is barren chat. I love those little level 1 characters in stormwind with names like "kejfjhef" selling gold.
It makes the community more interesting. It's also called Diversity.
If you walk into a Mall, is everyone going to be in your age group, fun to be around, and an enjoyable human being? Pfft, Hell no.
However, there is always the option to /ignore a player you don't like if they're really that unbearable.

[Capernicus]

lol Why don't we just get VR up and running and be done with it. Attach a catheter and IV drip to Unknownymous and let him die in that world.

[Cantelope]

A game where you get to choose your own profession? Hmmm. Does running a sword through a guy for his money count as a job?

[Unknownymous]

Absolutely heh. It's not a benevolent job but being a thief, bandit or even a murderer is still considered a job. The existence of such jobs causes the existence of their opposing jobs such as guards, bounty hunters, bodyguards, etc.

[B Gundam]

Hear hear, mind you share a rating of Sword of the New World and Perfect World?

Sword of the New World comes up with all those innovations such as NPC recruiting and Multiple Character Control, the stance system is also something to look up to (though there is barely such a thing as a character build since you can max all stances anyways and stats always stay same until you get *1* stat point at level 100), where other MMOs have you individualize the character you have to set up a team here, but it kinda takes the point out of having squads since you can include tank, nuker and healer in a single player. The skill animations are awesome but unfortunately far more spectacular than the actual effects, which seems to be mostly damage with differed delay. The Items are also quite variable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gLA08xJUvs

Perfect World features full 3D combat, and they mean it that way (you can/have to fly or dive, which is also to take in consideration in PvP situations), but other than that seems pretty much like a staple MMORPG, though it does feature a better item system than most MMOs. Also, characters are highly individual here, you can shape every bit of facial detail (and I mean shape, not choose from default preset stuff).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0XNCGg6LIg

I once liked RO because:

-The skills all made sense, they didn't just stack like "less damage for less SP" and "more damage for more SP" but all had notable strategic uses and drawbacks.
-Item depth. The variety of cards gave the items a good touch. It also had a fair set of uniques.

I'm currently looking for a new f2p MMORPG which has similiar item depth and skill system. Up to now Perfect World seems to be as good as it gets. Since I've been around in flyff and Rappelz and whatnot for stuff GPotato spewed out it has a sort of repetitive feel, but I'm still on the low end in levels there so I can't tell much about community and skill depth.

[Fenrisulfer]

After a week, i thought no one would reply. i'm happy to see there was discussion. I'd have to agree with most of Unknownymous' ideas. But where the complexity comes in is. suppose you are the carpenter who makes chairs, the only way someone can be truly a better chair maker is, if a system was put in where you can make 3D models of it and based on your skill lvl, would you actually be able to build it. Also creatures and monsters don't just stay in one place, they need to have life. Spawned creatures could have random programing saying,*go hunt people* *go hunt creatures* *become stationary below designated point*. And the actual fighting system, should one choose to fight, wouldn't be turn based or click on monster, click attack, watch fight. It would have to be something similar to the Elder Scrolls games. one where you have a button and you swing your weapon and use a spell in a direction. and you wouldnt have just swing, you would be able to different attacks depending on where you wanted to hit someone or something. on the notion of hitting something, all structures would be destructable, i mean if my rival in the game built a castle or a house and i cant get in through the front door, i should be able to break it down. or if your a theif, lockpick it, steal the goods and get out. that would be amazing fun.
of course our ideals for the perfect MMO is a dream drifting far from our reach.

[Unknownymous]

Unfortunately, we (as in me and my roleplayer friends) were also thinking of that, and it's very difficult to implement at least with the current technology. We were thinking that the only way for that to really become successful is if the game engine allowed the players to create new items on their own, like really putting chair parts together to form a chair in the way they want, and that may also include putching etchings or moldings or other details.

This idea also applies to pure fighters and stuff. The ability to design their own specialty attacks and skills, etc. Like for example, a character that really specialized in thrusting sword attacks can, if he's mastered it to such an extent, design a thrusting attack to his liking (for example, a lunging thrust attack that penetrates multiple enemies). Or an assassin that focused on "blink" (as in short-range instant teleportation). With mastery, the player can design a new way the blink works, such as disappearing then appearing with a delay, or even appearing to be at both the origin and the destination at the same time. Stuff like that.



mind you sharing a rating of Sword of the New World and Perfect World?
I played both games and I'll give you a short review on what I thought of them. Not to high jack the topic, but to give a comparison as to what I didn't like about them. I'll put them in spoiler tags so people don't have to read them if they're not interested.

Granado Espada, or as you Westerners seem to have called it, Sword of the New World, was an awesome game. Some of my friends didn't like it, but I personally enjoyed it. It's one of those games, however, where you had nothing to do except do quests and kill monsters, but still I found it rather fun. I guess that's because I was partially not thinking of it as a role-playing game, but more like a strategy game. I like setting up an area with my formations and watching enemies die. I thought that was enjoyable. And the character designs were beautiful, though the customization options were limited (especially since you had to buy the costumes, hairstyles, etc, with real money).

All in all, from a MMO standpoint, I thought it was a good game. I play(ed) in Granado Espada Japan, but it's kinda lonely since none of my friends play there. And everybody's high level so you really will feel lonely at low levels. Barely anybody in any dungeons, which was a good thing, except that it meant there was nobody to buy low level equipment from or sell them to.

But from an RPG standpoint, it's not that good. As my friend put it, it's hard to get in character when you have three (or more) characters.

Perfect World I didn't like at all. Another one of those games where there's nothing to do but fight, and it didn't do that too well either. I mean, it's not bad, but it's not special. At least Granado Espada had a fun Multi-Character Combat system. Having a crafting system is standard in all MMOs, so I won't comment on that. The only thing that PW had going was the elaborate character creation system, which really allowed you, with some skill and patience, to make your character look exactly the way you want.

Otherwise, it's just another kill-many-monsters-to-become-the-most-powerful-PVPer game. Not much incentive there. I don't want to sit in front of the PC for 16 hours killing the same one or two monsters over and over just to get 5% exp.

Quite frankly, not to sound so negative, but I've been on the search you're currently on for years. I've tried almost every free MMORPG, from the high-profile ones like PW and GE, to the lesser known ones like Fung-Wan Online and Zero3000, etc. That being said, there is none that fits my ideals of being a good game that I'd like to stick around in. I'm not even talking about "perfect" like I described a few posts above. Even just a game that gets me going with basic elements like fun combat system, non-linear gameplay, and other things to do like mini-games or fishing, and a decent community, is enough to get me to play for a long time.

[Regex]

Quite frankly, not to sound so negative, but I've been on the search you're currently on for years. I've tried almost every free MMORPG, from the high-profile ones like PW and GE, to the lesser known ones like Fung-Wan Online and Zero3000, etc. That being said, there is none that fits my ideals of being a good game that I'd like to stick around in. I'm not even talking about "perfect" like I described a few posts above. Even just a game that gets me going with basic elements like fun combat system, non-linear gameplay, and other things to do like mini-games or fishing, and a decent community, is enough to get me to play for a long time.
Like I keep saying.. You really get what you pay for.

[Unknownymous]

True. That's why I'm saving up for LotR:Online heheh (www.lotro.com). It's not perfect but it looks like a lot of fun, with lots of interesting features and stuff (with a lot of them having RPers in mind). My friends are also saving up, and we'll probably have a blast when we finally get to play.

Although, now that I have a lot of hobbies outside of the PC realm + a job, I'm wondering if I'll actually have time to play. o_O

[Grod]

well most MMOS are usually rpg, unless you can name an MMO FPS which im not sure there is any. none come to mind.

Um... really? Ever heard of Halo?

[Innovative]

Planetside is an MMOFPS.

The perfect MMO is Diablo II: LoD.

[Sanosuke23]

Gunz is an MMO 3PS.

I would like a full, faithful to the sourcebooks D&D MMORPG with at least everything in the core books accessible in some way, shape or form. Templates can be earned by quest chains(you unlock them for a new character you create). For instance, you do a long chain involving a dragon's lair protecting their human loved one, and at the end you can make Half-Dragon characters.

Oh, and if I want to be an NPC class then damnit, let me be it! Expert, at least!

[Golden State Warrior]

Me, personally, the thing people underestimate the most is the ability to solo. Some people love playing MMOs, but no one wants to waste time looking for a party. One thing to note is even though soloing should be a viable option, encouraging to group is a must! A way to encourage grouping would be to reward people who group up. A hefty bonus in experience points or a better chance for rare items to drop would be an example.

Party Leader: Hey, wanna group up? We're just all farming for EXP here.
Soloer: Nah, I gotta log soon.
Party Leader: Oh, no worries. While you in a group, you get three times more experience. We're just killing mobs, so you can leave whenever you feel like it.

Soloer: Sounds good! Sign me up!

Something like that.

[Ball Tripper]

Two words to describe the perfect mmo.

FORGOTTEN REALMS

I can't believe the dnd mmorpg was set in ebberon. What were they thinking...

[Sanosuke23]

Two words to describe the perfect mmo.

FORGOTTEN REALMS

I can't believe the dnd mmorpg was set in ebberon. What were they thinking...

Warforged is what they were thinking I'd assume.

I'm shocked it wasn't, you know, Greyhawk. The default setting for D&D's core books.

[Ball Tripper]

Warforged is what they were thinking I'd assume.

I'm shocked it wasn't, you know, Greyhawk. The default setting for D&D's core books.
Screw warforged. I can probably think of 100 different races to play as that are cooler than warforged.

Forgotten Realms would be hard to pull off I imagine. Atleast if they tried to do it in any scale compareable to the scope of the world. FR is MASSIVE. But I think it would also be an instant success just with the popularity of FR.

I really like playing in the warcraft universe. Serving Thrall, killing Jaina for the hell of it. Cool cameos and such, I'm a nerd with the lore. But I would drop it in a second if Elminster wanted to send me on a quest.

[FoX_D3ff3nd3R]

i played 2 MMOFPS games a while ago...

one was like "planetscape" or something similar,
very good, vehicles and everything...
but not much in the way of team play... was more like a bf2 with massive maps...

the other was "eden" or something else starting with 'E'
was VERY good, was like lineage 2 but with guns,
wasnt so much FPS tho...

[Inactive Account 0061]

hmm a perfect MMO would be Naruto Online xD like World Of Warcraft just the Naruto world. and all their moves. and make your own char...... would be so F****** COOL!

[Chiko-Chan]

Yogurting is the best mmorpg ever made you should all try it www.yogurting.jp

i know that it's on japanese but even if, try it it's easy to learn how to play. and there is a lot of guides here www.yogurting.tk on english ^^

[Mr.Diaf]

Asheron's Call, I played from the start and played for several years,

It never will be replaced to me,

I haven't found an MMORPG that I've played like that since.

[Sanosuke23]

hmm a perfect MMO would be Naruto Online xD like World Of Warcraft just the Naruto world.

You know, given Naruto's extremely loose definition of "ninja" I can totally see a skill-based classless leveling system, with certain restrictions and benefits for each tier of ninja.

Villages provide PvP opportunity, and skill acquisition through either slow, free self-practice or costly but expedient instruction make this seem like not a bad idea at all... *ponder*

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

You know, given Naruto's extremely loose definition of "ninja" I can totally see a skill-based classless leveling system, with certain restrictions and benefits for each tier of ninja.

Villages provide PvP opportunity, and skill acquisition through either slow, free self-practice or costly but expedient instruction make this seem like not a bad idea at all... *ponder*

As a semi-related point, I have long pondered a Naruto -> D20 conversion (I do it when I'm working, shut up). Base classes would be d20 Modern-esque, Chakra/non Taijutsu Jutsus would be psionics-rule based, most specialization would be through Advanced/Prestige Classes, Tailed Beasts would be templates, Basically every Akatsuki-level ninja would be in the level 30 range, etcetera, etcetera. The big problems would be play balancing that stuff, and keeping it interesting when basically every encounter ends up a series of one on one duels worth insane experience points.

[Sanosuke23]

MP2k: There already is a Naruto module floating around under the OGL, but from what I hear it's terrible.

The one-on-one battle dynamic issue is a valid one for tabletop play, but that's the beauty of an MMO. All of it is really one player vs. the game, as far as directing things goes.


Have you considered NPC classes, by the way? Just planning to use d20Modern base rules for, say, that sea of mercenaries Zabuza had to cut through? If you use rival ninja battles as mostly boss encounters it might work.

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

MP2k: There already is a Naruto module floating around under the OGL, but from what I hear it's terrible.

The one-on-one battle dynamic issue is a valid one for tabletop play, but that's the beauty of an MMO. All of it is really one player vs. the game, as far as directing things goes.


Have you considered NPC classes, by the way? Just planning to use d20Modern base rules for, say, that sea of mercenaries Zabuza had to cut through? If you use rival ninja battles as mostly boss encounters it might work.

As far as Non-Ninja characters, The d20 Modern classes would be fine. But I don't think having Ninjas only as bosses would be true to the setting. Non-Ninjas are cannon fodder at even low levels, and the Ninjas gain power so quickly that the non-Ninjas can't keep up. I figure by the current storyline, all of the Kohana Kids would be at least level 16, and the setting has no non-ninjas anywhere near that power to offer. So while it could work at level 5, it would quickly stop being feasible, unless you want your characters fighting swarms of Red Shirts.

Also, I figure that I would have to add another base stat for chakra, because there is no base stat that would make sense. I want to say wisdom would be good, but Naruto and Lee both would have average-to-low wisdom scores and are on completely different ends of the spectrum chakra wise (even considering that Naruto gets a good boost from his tailed beast). And then a chakra control skill to justify why most people have no chakra to speak of inspite of having average potential.

[Sanosuke23]

As far as Non-Ninja characters, The d20 Modern classes would be fine. But I don't think having Ninjas only as bosses would be true to the setting. Non-Ninjas are cannon fodder at even low levels, and the Ninjas gain power so quickly that the non-Ninjas can't keep up. I figure by the current storyline, all of the Kohana Kids would be at least level 16, and the setting has no non-ninjas anywhere near that power to offer. So while it could work at level 5, it would quickly stop being feasible, unless you want your characters fighting swarms of Red Shirts.

Also, I figure that I would have to add another base stat for chakra, because there is no base stat that would make sense. I want to say wisdom would be good, but Naruto and Lee both would have average-to-low wisdom scores and are on completely different ends of the spectrum chakra wise (even considering that Naruto gets a good boost from his tailed beast). And then a chakra control skill to justify why most people have no chakra to speak of in spite of having average potential.

Well the old Red Shirts would be replaced with lower-level ninja as time went on, which is indeed the case if you're going with all-out Ninja warfare, but then you're getting into Mass Battle rules and things are getting sloppy from the get-go. If we're talking, say, one outing, you can also take into account the various jutsus that are effectively mind control on both humanoids and beasts, summoning jutsus, clone jutsus, etc. Then there's the typical three-man cell dynamic found in the series, and we've seen by now that there's typically varying degrees of power even in an individual cell, probably effectively +/-1 amongst their given levels in an average group and more in a specialized group.

As for Chakra, I'd make it in the same vein as Will saves; Smart heroes get the most while Powerful would get the least. THEN you'd need to make an advanced Ninja class to even USE Chakra effectively. A Chakra Control skill seems unnecessary when Concentration can pretty easily pick up the tab for that. Say, fail by more than five and it costs X amount more, succeed by more than 5 and it costs x amount less, etc. Then again I'm not too up on Modern, so if there's no Concentration anymore then I guess a new skill needs to be used.

To be perfectly honest, it would probably be easier to work it out in GURPS, but that's pretty much what the system was made for.


BUT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT MMORPGS AND NOT TABLETOPS, SO TO RERAIL THE THREAD: Ball Tripper: I second the "screw Warforged" and "lore nerd" sentiments. I'd love to play Forgotten Realms stuff, even if it wasn't strictly FR and instead a mishmash of everything.

As for the final(as far as sequence is concerned, at least) epic quest of the game for adventurers, they can completely reenact Die Vecna Die!, only without the segue into a new version. If you choose not to adventure, well then enjoy whatever it is you're doing and disregard that part.

Me, I'd roll Expert and play a merchant.

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

Well the old Red Shirts would be replaced with lower-level ninja as time went on, which is indeed the case if you're going with all-out Ninja warfare, but then you're getting into Mass Battle rules and things are getting sloppy from the get-go. If we're talking, say, one outing, you can also take into account the various jutsus that are effectively mind control on both humanoids and beasts, summoning jutsus, clone jutsus, etc. Then there's the typical three-man cell dynamic found in the series, and we've seen by now that there's typically varying degrees of power even in an individual cell, probably effectively +/-1 amongst their given levels in an average group and more in a specialized group.

As for Chakra, I'd make it in the same vein as Will saves; Smart heroes get the most while Powerful would get the least. THEN you'd need to make an advanced Ninja class to even USE Chakra effectively. A Chakra Control skill seems unnecessary when Concentration can pretty easily pick up the tab for that. Say, fail by more than five and it costs X amount more, succeed by more than 5 and it costs x amount less, etc. Then again I'm not too up on Modern, so if there's no Concentration anymore then I guess a new skill needs to be used.
I disagree. As for Chakra points, you can't tell me Naruto and Sharkface have enough levels in Smart/Dedicated or appropriate advanced classes to explain why they have infinitely more chakra then say, Shikamaru. And while there would be a concentration skill, I don't think that it would cover chakra control. Early Sakura had no concentration skill to speak of, but she was good at chakra control. Early Naruto was exact opposite (which makes sense, because his Tailed Beast obviously gives him, I don't know, + 4 Con in addition to Fast Healing at the base level).


To be perfectly honest, it would probably be easier to work it out in GURPS, but that's pretty much what the system was made for.


BUT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT MMORPGS AND NOT TABLETOPS, SO TO RERAIL THE THREAD: Ball Tripper: I second the "screw Warforged" and "lore nerd" sentiments. I'd love to play Forgotten Realms stuff, even if it wasn't strictly FR and instead a mishmash of everything.

As for the final(as far as sequence is concerned, at least) epic quest of the game for adventurers, they can completely reenact Die Vecna Die!, only without the segue into a new version. If you choose not to adventure, well then enjoy whatever it is you're doing and disregard that part.

Me, I'd roll Expert and play a merchant.

Really, FR-MMO would suck, if only because there would be nothing but Chaotic Good Drow Rangers walking around.

I call Mindflayer Barbarian!

[Sanosuke23]

I disagree. As for Chakra points, you can't tell me Naruto and Sharkface have enough levels in Smart/Dedicated or appropriate advanced classes to explain why they have infinitely more chakra then say, Shikamaru. And while there would be a concentration skill, I don't think that it would cover chakra control. Early Sakura had no concentration skill to speak of, but she was good at chakra control. Early Naruto was exact opposite (which makes sense, because his Tailed Beast obviously gives him, I don't know, + 4 Con in addition to Fast Healing at the base level).

Well Shark guy(I cannot remember his name for the life of me, damn you) is a member of Akatsuki so I'd say yes, he DOES have quite a bit of Chakra and would have levels in an advanced class. Wasn't he, like, a Swordsman of the Mist village or something? As for Naruto, his training under Jiraya would also give him advanced class levels. Keep in mind that Stamina also plays a part in how much Chakra you have, so that +4 Con would probably have something to do with Naruto's extra Chakra. Besides, Naruto would probably be Dedicated.

I also object to the idea that Shikamaru has less Chakra than them, as we have no idea how to quantify how much his shadow manipulation jutsus actually consume. If anything I'd say it consumes Chakra per five feet it travels, and for every round you hold a person, in a game mechanic. Even someone with scores of Chakra would have that run them down after a while. As for Sakura, what do you mean she had little Concentration? She's more a scholar than anything else before Tsunade teaches her how to Hulk Smash, so I'd think she'd have max ranks in Concentrate at any given level and any module-specific Knowledge skills. Keep in mind that at the time she'd only know the lower stuff, probably around DC 10+jutsu level so say 11 or 12, and in order for average mercs to not be a problem for a ninja they'd be about level 3-5 during the Zabuza thing to the mercs being like 1-3. This is why I said even being a Ninja would probably be an Advanced Class.



Really, FR-MMO would suck, if only because there would be nothing but Chaotic Good Drow Rangers walking around.

I call Mindflayer Barbarian!

This is why I'd advocate a mixing of lore/characters/etc. from the three realms. There's stuff in Greyhawk, FR, and Eberron that are pretty cool and I'd definitely play in an MMO.

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

Well Shark guy(I cannot remember his name for the life of me, damn you) is a member of Akatsuki so I'd say yes, he DOES have quite a bit of Chakra and would have levels in an advanced class. Wasn't he, like, a Swordsman of the Mist village or something? As for Naruto, his training under Jiraya would also give him advanced class levels. Keep in mind that Stamina also plays a part in how much Chakra you have, so that +4 Con would probably have something to do with Naruto's extra Chakra. Besides, Naruto would probably be Dedicated.
Shark Guy might, he seems to be a Strong/Water Jutsu/Swordsmen type, but Naruto seems to be more of a Fast/Tough/Clone Specialist/and maybe 1 level of Wind Specialist type to me. In spite of his Ninja code, Naruto isn't a Dedicated at all. For one thing, his base Wisdom seems to suck (although it gets better post time-skip) which makes it unlikely. Dedicated in d20 Modern is for Police Officers, Detectives, Medical-type characters, and anyone who progresses with reason and/or empathy. Sakura is more of a Dedicated Ninja then Naruto.

And if I remember correctly, Kakashi gave an explanation of Chakra early on. He basically said that it was a intrinsic attribute, and explained that it existed outside of normal stamina (although a ninja could fatigue himself to gain more if need be).



I also object to the idea that Shikamaru has less Chakra than them, as we have no idea how to quantify how much his shadow manipulation jutsus actually consume. If anything I'd say it consumes Chakra per five feet it travels, and for every round you hold a person, in a game mechanic. Even someone with scores of Chakra would have that run them down after a while.
It's remarked repeatedly that Naruto has super-freakishly high levels of chakra even without using the Tailed beast's chakra. I remember that Kakashi early on stated that Naruto had more then twice as much chakra as he did, and Kakashi is an experienced genius-level ninja. Each time he creates a clone, it get's half of his chakra, and he is still able to create thirty or so to use as Red Shirts (losing all that chakra when they die) and still use the Rasengan which is by definition a ball of dense spinning chakra. For whatever reason (possibly his chakra eating sword) Sharkface was able to match Naruto in chakra even through one of Pein's clones limited to using something like 30-50% of Sharkface's chakra. As for Shikamaru, I assume that like Sakura he has average chakra levels, but good chakra control. It's never been stated that he has extraordinary reserves of chakra, so I assume he doesn't.



As for Sakura, what do you mean she had little Concentration? She's more a scholar than anything else before Tsunade teaches her how to Hulk Smash, so I'd think she'd have max ranks in Concentrate at any given level and any module-specific Knowledge skills. Keep in mind that at the time she'd only know the lower stuff, probably around DC 10+jutsu level so say 11 or 12, and in order for average mercs to not be a problem for a ninja they'd be about level 3-5 during the Zabuza thing to the mercs being like 1-3. This is why I said even being a Ninja would probably be an Advanced Class.
I mean she seemed flightly, and would quickly lose concentration if she was injured, at least before all that stupid Sakura Blooms garbage. Either that or she failed a will save vs every action every enemy ever took. After she got Medical Ninja training she was clearly near max-ranks in Concentration.




This is why I'd advocate a mixing of lore/characters/etc. from the three realms. There's stuff in Greyhawk, FR, and Eberron that are pretty cool and I'd definitely play in an MMO.

I'd be happy if Dread Necromancer was a choice.

[gangman5]

i would have a realistic rpg with full pvp, you can build your own city/docks/boats/houses
where there is at least 12 classes and 12 races
some classes would be race specific
at lvl 80 you can choose an extension class e.g. a lvl 80 warrior could become either a berserker or a dread knight
fully user controlled economy
character customizable down to the last hair
user leaders of each race e.g. a lvl 150 dread knight leading a 5000 man army of players into a battle against the orks would be awesome
completely free to play and no restrictions on the game