Should anime be dubbed? [Archive]

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Gold_Roger

02-25-2007, 12:13 PM

Quik

02-25-2007, 12:50 PM

Of course anime should be dubbed. Unless Im mistaken, dubs are getting a lot better. While I do enjoy watching the original Japanese anime, I also like dubs. However, if the dub has bad voice work, script/plot changes, etc, then Ill just ignore it and watch the anime in Japanese; if the dub is good than more often than not Ill usually just watch the dub, and watch certain scenes in Japanese (to compare, for example). Rarely, I come across a truly great anime dub that I honestly feel is the better than the original Japanese, like Read or Die (OVA and tv series).

Buruku

02-25-2007, 01:54 PM

I find most Japanese voices annoying, the women (no matter what age they're suppose to be voice acting) always sound like 5 year olds squeeling.

Not saying there isn't bad english dubbing, but I'd rather watch crappy dubbing in my own language. And even if the voice acting is way better in the Japanese version, it almost doesn't even matter since all it sounds like to me is jibberish. :(

Koshiro

02-25-2007, 02:08 PM

It is almost a neccesity for an anime to be dubbed. Yes it is true that sometimes the english voice actors are not always that great and that some puns are left out, however, not everyone enjoys reading words at the bottom of the screen the whole time, it can even be a problem considering it becomes hard to focus on whats happening above the words which can result in someone missing an important scene. I find myself constantly rewinding some of the subbed animes I watch simply because I cannot keep up with both the text and the video at the same time, it's just too much work. As far as deleting things out of anime such as cursing and blood, etc. It's not like things like that are important to the storyline, although it does add a little more interest and depth to certain scenes.

nosfarartu

02-25-2007, 02:33 PM

personnally i dont watch anime in sub every mans voice sounds the same andso do the womans, and they also over exagerrate on things like 'oh no my snadwich fell on the floor the worlds going to end' stupid dubbed anime all the way woooooooooohooooooooooooo go dubbers

ParaParaJMo

02-25-2007, 05:49 PM

Not all English dubs suck.

But I also enjoy animes in other langauges like Tagalog, Korean, Mandarin, and Cantonese

sa5m

02-25-2007, 05:54 PM

I love anime dubs (most of them)! If it weren't for dubs like Sailor Moon, Gundam, and Pokemon, half of use anime fans wouldn't even be here! XD For example, Sailor Moon was the show that first got me into anime. Ever since I was little, I was a huge fan of Sailor Moon. Now I don't like it so much. But it still holds a special place in my heart because it was my first favorite cartoon on T.V.

Gold_Roger

03-01-2007, 06:02 AM

Thanks for your replies. I was on the fence with the issue because of the uncertain future of my beloved One Piece. Most of those quotes came from what One Piece fans amd myself were saying.

The dubs I do like are from FUNimation (nothing with Dragonball in the name) and from ADV Films.

NovaStar

03-01-2007, 08:14 AM

Ahhh The Age Old Question of Anime Dubs :), now see? I'm a fan - I always have been a fan ever since I was four years old and asked "Mommy, how does that Kitty Talk?"

(When watching Samurai Pizza Cats) but anywho, I wanted to touch on this because it's a topic I love to talk about) I see alot of people whom I have nicknamed "Anime Purists"

Complain about dubs and why they're blasphemous to what the "Original Japanese" was supposed to come across as. Quite honestly, my standpoint is that Dubs are a preferance and I personally like them better than Subs, I can lay back and enjoy listening to Dubs while not having to read anything.

Gold Roger Posted The Following: I'd like to post on that as well (This is just my thought)

I hear a lot of complaining about dubbed anime.

"The dub voices are horrible!" - Usually those who watch the subs will say this about every show(if they're of the "Purist" type who only watch one type of language(I watch both) I've spoken to many people on my messangers and I've heard nothing but "This dub is horrible" and when asked why, they can never give me a conclusive answer, but yet they have to be right. - Some dubs are bad, I'll give them that, but it boggles my mind how people can be so closed minded.

"Thye changed the music to crap!" - If you're speaking about the opening themes of some shows Yeah they do that(most notably Funimation) other than that I don't really recall seeing anything edited.

"The dialogue is full bad puns and lame jokes!" - Wrong again: They're full of the same Jokes which have been either changed to make sense, or replaced by another joke because that joke would not make sense - The people who complain about bad jokes overanalyze things :)

"They won't release uncut DVDs!" - Unless I've seen something that says "As Seen on TV" I usually assume it's uncut(at least I think so anyway)

"They edit every little thing out!" - Also Not True: That's the TV Station's doing, IE: When fox Kids got a hold of Escaflowne and edited it to all heck even though it was already dubbed prior to it's release.

"Just because it's a cartoon, doesn't make it for kids - Absolutely not: To us, this is a passion and I think that's why we're all here. - I love Anime, you love anime, we all love anime here.

Point is: regardless of what we like, we all love anime :)

(I've written an Essay on this as well :) (which is a good read or so I've been told) so if anyone wants to see that, just ask

As For One Piece - It was nabbed by 4Kids - all hope is lost :p
- Nova

Mugetsu

03-01-2007, 09:03 AM

Of course it should be. I can't understand Japanese so if there were no dubs (and I didnt havea subtitled copy) I would have no idea what was going on and lose interest. Also, having to rewind the tape/dvd because you missed some of the action while reading he dialogue can be annoying. Not all dubs are bad....just most that I've seen.

ParaParaJMo

03-01-2007, 10:44 AM

I don't understand Korean but Korean is my favorite language in which I watch anime in a different language. Mostly because a lot of times from what I've seen, they've gotten voice actors that sound like the original Japanese ones. Plus, Korean is gramatically similar and somewhat phonetically similar to Korean it can have that faithfulness.

I mostly watch anime or read manga in Chinese just to practice my Chinese, lol.

I remember one of the first animes I watched dubbed (as an anime fan) was Ronin Warriors/Samurai Troopers. Yeah, they changed the names and changed the story but you can still enjoy the awesome action and distinctive art style for the time.

As for Sailor Moon, I can understand editing out the deaths. Even parents in Japan complained about them. Just imagine how American parents would react if Japanese parents did as well. But I thought Sailor Moon was aired in a bad time slot during its initial airing. In my area, it was aired at 9am. I was in 6th grade at the time and I was 2 hours into school! How do you expect to reach a target audience if a majority of them are in school during that time!?

Dragon Ball Z just had bad lines like "I'M GONNA SEND YOU TO THE NEXT DIMENSION!!" That wasn't really Funi's fault. That was Saban's fault. Saban has made the most politically correct works of Japanese TV. Look at what he did to super sentai with Power Rangers. But I guess the fun action out does the ultra terrible acting and all that stuff. But I remember the creator of Kamen Rider was outraged with the Americanization with Masked Rider. He was pissed that they edited out the violence and it just went against what his creation stood for.

Takeuchi-sensei was pleased with the popularity of Sailor Moon in America. Toriyama-sensei is pleased that he's almost made an international hit.

Asyuoli

03-01-2007, 11:26 AM

"They edit every little thing out!" :banghead:

not true

i watched the subbed version of Fruits Basket before i watched the dubbed

when i did watch the dubbed the only thing that changed was a coulpe of jokes (and the voices obviously)

buhbibutterfly

03-01-2007, 02:10 PM

should they dubbed it? of course why, some of most favorites are in dubbed...ok maybe i'm just more used to the dubbed for those series but i still love them.

what i hate beyond anything about them is the butchering of the series...the best example of this would be one piece, not only does the choice of voice actors sux big time the chopping and changing and deleting of scenes and objects are just stupid. come on now, even going so far as changing skin tone....

so all in all

dubbing = sure why not go right ahead just don't take a knife and butcher it while you doing it.

Baka

03-01-2007, 03:30 PM

I hate dubs. But yes they should be made. Some people just prefer them.

sasunarubishoujo

03-01-2007, 04:18 PM

NovaStar

03-01-2007, 05:36 PM

Second time posting in here, but yeah, I have to give my opinion on this: So For Anyone who's wondering. I wrote a pretty large Essay on Dubs versus Subs(moreoften than not, what went into a dub)

So I'll post it here: I doubt anyone will care, because I mean we all have our opinions: But here's why I respect dubs

Alright, I suppose I should break this down for everyone, seeing as nobody can agree on it - I think however that this will recieve me more flames than positive critique, however I don't believe I care: I'm always up for talking on this subject, no matter whom brings it up, how they bring it up or why they bring it up. For 15 years now, I've been a fan of Japanese Animation, and I've heard both the english language and Japanese Language tracks on many different titles

Including D.N Angel, Nightwalker, Spiral, .Hack Sign, Noir, Angelic Layer, The Saber Mariontte Franchise, S-Cry-Ed, Azumanga Daioh and Tenchi Muyo(to name the VERY few I can think of off of the top of my head.) but it seems, that no matter whom speaks on it, no matter what is said, or no matter what is done, we as anime fans quandry and quarrel about an Anime being bad as a Dub and better as a Sub; I Personally like Both but tend to lean in towards the english dub.

I have a great ammount of respect for the anime industry, I myself am currently trying to get into it in any way possible, though that may not be easy, it's a dream, and damnit I can dream if I want to. One of the most common stories I hear from anime fans in general about why a Sub is better than a Dub is simple, it sticks closely to the Japanese - I think the reason for that is very clear and apparent

...

The people doing it ARE Japanese, so when it's done in it's original language, it will obviously be the first production of a series. The way I think of an anime, is like a broadway show, on opening night, you have nervous actors wondering "Will this be a hit, or will this be a flop" - Currently, Bandai Entertainment is going through the exact same wonderment and confusion with their recent aquisition of Suzumiya Haruhi No Yuutsu or in English The Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi. In my opinion, this is make or break for a company like Bandai, simply because the followers of "Haruhi-Ism" or the fans of the show as it were, will have an absolute fit if this show is not "Done Well" as I have seen many of you say.

I doubt that any of us, as mere fans realize just how much work goes into releasing DVD's for the united states, or making a show "Properly" or "Done well" is concerned, first of all one of the major things I don't think any fan realizes, is that a Dub will never ever be 100 % onto the Japanese, which I believe that alot of hardcore fans are dying to see, but alas for them it shall never happen. I myself, from reading honest interviews from writers, publishers and producers from the anime industry have come to have a new respect for it after realizing, just how much work goes into these DVD's, and English Releases.

both Monica Rial and Tiffany Grant: Famed english voiceovers of many anime series such as Neon Genisis Evangelion Noir and Azumanga Daioh have gone on record in saying just how hard it is to make an english dub - I think us as fans have no right to accuse them of "butchering" a show in any way, when the honest truth is a Dub is one mere thing an Adaptation. it will not be spot on to the Japanese, it will not use the direct subtitled Translations on things to be put into englsh.

The Fact is, many things are dumbed down or changed slightly in anime to appeal to a North American audience, nearly every single one of anime, go through this. It is in my opinion that a show is NOT butchered by an American Dub Studio, but by an American Television Network

Prime example: Back in 1996 Fox Kids(Now Fox Box or "WUHF 31 Fox Rochester": Aquired the rights to Escaflowne, this series is Imfamous as far as what people concern to be a "Poor Dub" - for those of you who do not know, Escaflowne ran for a little under 3 months, not even completeing the show before it was pulled off of the network due to low ratings. in all honesty there are certain things in the show which Exceutives from Fox clearly said the following in my eyes.

"No, we can't do that, our demographic is garnered towards children, what we plan to do with the show is release it, and cut any offensive part out so that children can enjoy the show, watch it on Saturday mornings and not be offended by things they may see"

fast forward to about six months ago, I had purchased the "Vision of Escaflowne Anime Legends Box Set" from Bandai and to my suprise, nothing which was in the show that I saw circa 1996 from Fox Kids, seemed the same for that show, it was completely unedited and it was shown it's in entierty, one of the main things(and I apologize for those of you whom haven't seen Escaflowne) that was not shown due to censorship in america, was the fact that Dillandau was Alan's Sister.

This was a key part of the story, and in my eyes one of the key reasons that Escaflowne didn't take off at all over in the united states, however be that as it may, it is now 11 years later and Escaflowne is still one of the most popular series in anime to be released among hardcore fans of Mech and Fantasy. though this wasn't the only thing which had recieved bad reviews from an adaptation's standpoint.

More Recently the Dubbed Versions of One Piece and Naruto have hit the airwaves and both of them again were considered "Butchered" by the fans there's no doubt that aspects of the show were changed, especially in the case of One Piece but again, this problem falls to the network which is broadcasting the show, and not the company whom made it: Mind you, in One Peice's case it was dubbed by a company known as "4Kids" - and in my eyes, the name of that company shall tell you exactly what they do with their Anime they bring over to North America.

4Kids first major Release was back in early 1996 when it hit the airwaves with the giant phenom from Japan(That's right) The Pokemon Virus had begun to spread, and the kids(myself included) at the time, had been swept into the giant conglomerate which was Pokemon
all at the head of this giant marketing scheme was: You guessed it: 4Kids - Any Dub released by 4Kids will be badly done, simply because unless it was already aimed towards children, it will be sawed in half and juliened to automatically make it appeal towards children(Gum Gum Fruit for example in One Piece) I do not, and have not considered 4Kids an Anime company, because I believe as much as probably all of you do, that 4Kids is a company, which takes Anime(Such as One Piece) and turns them into westernized style cartoon's) even though Anime Stores Online DO sell the DVD's of it.

Another company for example, which is based out of Fort Worth Texas which has gotten(Somewhat) of a bad reputation is Funimation Ltd. commenly known for it's aquistion of Akira Toriyama's Dragon Ball Frachise which to this day is still being released in box set after remastered boxset after remastered boxset. I don't see what everyone's gripe was with Dragon Ball - to be honest for it's time AND for it's editing, it did an extremely good job after it was brought over to the united states, I know personally that the Dragon Ball Franchise is something I remembered growing up and it was the first time I ever worried "Will my Favorite Character Die Tonight?"

The Fact is, Funimation has released SEVERAL good Anime series onto DVD which are overlooked because the company which did it was plagued by one "Bad"(And I use that in quotes because in my eyes I do not believe it was at all) Series. Two shows for example that come directly to mind when thinking about Funimation and a Solid release for an Anime series have been Gunslinger Girl and Kiddy Grade both of which were dubbed and released by Funimation over the last two years.

Quite Abit goes into creating an English Release for an Anime: for example: you will literally see Thousands of Anime fans in the Dallas Area looking in the paper or looking on a website to find out when ADV Films will be doing it's next Casting Call for a show first of all, be prepared for a long wait, ADV's Callback list stretches for over 2 years, so be prepared for example, if you go into a studio and do a sample(Unless they say, "You are perfect for this role and we need to look no further, which rarely happens) This year: to wait from 2007 to 2009 before you'll get a call.

Also: A Common misconception is the pay for Voiceovers: They're not as rich as you think they are, truth be told Anime in North America is not NEARLY as popular as it is in Japan, There is something called the North American Actor's Guild, which is basically a corperate conglomerate which sanction's pay(Currently, as of Nebraskon 2007) The Going Rate of Voice Actors(In Anime) According to Tiffany Grant(Whom has been a VA Since 1994) is 65.00(American).

Now you may think that this is quite abit of money for only an hour's work(but literally, you are only doing about 5 hours of work Per Month(Not Per Day, Not Per Week) Per MONTH, so let us add up that you are only making $325.00 A Month(Which contrary to most anime fan's belief's of "VA's Must be Rich): You can not live off of and will need a second job.

To my Knowledge: Tiffany Grant Also Sells Real Estate, so there you have it, moving along! I find it amazing Alone: Just how much work as I said earlier, goes into making a series

First you have the Casting Call(Which if you are in the Dallas Area and are an Anime Fan, is Kinda like American Idol, you'll go in, do a sample for them, and leave) Or: If you're fortunate enough to have the money, simply do a Demotape(Which can cost upwards of $1000 to be done professionally) Then, if you are lucky enough, and ONLY if you are lucky enough

Do you get to be in a Studio, you will then work on something known as Foley(Things like, Gunshots, Footsteps on the Ground) and other various sound effects, which have to be done right in order to make a series believeable(Not many shows from pre 2000 have Good Foley which honestly: takes away from the whole atmosphere)

After That: You will begin recording your line's, and if you're working with Monica Rial, hear ALOT of the word "Crap!" on your outtakes section of your DVD's(if I knew Monica she'd hit me for that one)

all and all: it takes several months to release the DVD's of something(An Interesting conversation was had between myself and Tryco about the slowness of the release of "Solty Rei" - an older title which just got liscenced by Funimation it could even take several years, as knowing most companies there will be a few snags on the product line or even sometimes on a deadline for a product to come out.

Prime Examples of this would be about 10 months ago when the HIGHLY anticipated release of "Final Fantasy: Advent Children" was FINALLY finished after about 6 rollbacks of dates due to incompletion. However, I having seen the finished product honestly believe it is worth the wait.

As I have said before I've been a fan of Anime for 15 years - I'm not saying that makes me more of an authority to speak on something than someone else, what I am saying is I probably have seen alot more than someone whom was starting say oh, only a year ago(Mind you my experience includes what I saw on TV BEFORE I got into collecting).

From what I've seen, alot of people in the Anime World can let you know five roles of these following people

Megumi Hashiyabara
Aya Hisakawa
Maaya Sakamoto
Chisa Yokoyama
Houko Kuwashima

knowing these roles being huge Sub Fans( and I know many whom can list off the top of their head, the roles that these ladies have
done)

Yet for those of you whom have not seen a Dub or refuse to because of the lack of keeping to the Japanese

I defy you for me (WITHOUT using Wikipedia) To list me Five Roles of the following

Tiffany Grant
Monica Rial
Christopher Patton
Wendee Lee
Or Greg Ayers

If you can't do it, I don't blame you at all: It's extremely hard: But that to me shows me just how imballanced the watching of the Dub is compared to the Sub in my honest opinion.

For those of you whom were discouraged by "What it takes to get into the business" from above: Fear Not

Greg Ayers for Example was and Still IS: A huge Anime Fan and himself admits to getting in a car and driving quite a long distants just to hear Rachael Lillis(Misty from Pokemon Fame) Sing the Jigglypuff Song(For whom she also did the voice)

Still not Convinced? Mandy Clark or Tomo Takino from the Azumanga Daioh series: Was Originally a Fan Dubber before she got into the prospect of doing Voice Acting in Dallas Texas for ADV Films. - these two are like a shining beacon of hope for a regular run of the mill anime fan who aspires to be a voiceover in their favorite shows, so while it may be hard, it is not impossible so don't give up.

I hope now, that after reading this you will realize that it is not the "Show" or the English Language Track which butchers the show

but the network which does it. as a good 95 % of DVD's which are released are uncut and unedited unless it says "as seen on(Name of Network here)

So if you're bored? go out, pick up a DVD and Give a Dub a Chance.

Thank you for taking the time to read this! ^_^

For those of you wondering? - I was extremely bored when I wrote this and did research on it

Ichiro Matsuchani

03-01-2007, 05:36 PM

Haibara

03-01-2007, 09:07 PM

You want to know why they edit out all the graphic stuff that some people like in Anime when they're dubbed in english? Because they people in America that are most likely going to watch it are the younger people, and they want to avoid trouble with parents.

I hate it when that happens, I think that is why they stoped showing Escaflowne a few years ago on Fox Kids. The only dubbs I can't stand are the ones that are dubbed so they are more suitable for kids.

Ichiro Matsuchani

03-01-2007, 09:10 PM

I hate it when that happens, I think that is why they stoped showing Escaflowne a few years ago on Fox Kids. The only dubbs I can't stand are the ones that are dubbed so they are more suitable for kids.Unfortunately, that's mostly all of them.

wolfgirl90

03-01-2007, 09:17 PM

True. One of the many reasons why anime is edited is so that the companies can make it more appropriate for children (Dragonball Z, Naruto, Yu-Gi-Oh, etc) and usually because they think they will make more money from merchandise (and its true; who else besides kids eat Yu-Gi-Oh cereal?).

Anyway, I believe that anime should be dubbed. Although some people screw up the editing, not all of them are bad (except the earlier anime like Sailor Moon and Dragonball Z. That was awful). I can understand Japanese, so I don't have a problem with listening without subtitles. However, I would rather hear it in my native language...which would be English. Many jokes have to be changed because you would not understand. Most anime do not give full explanations of why characters do certain things or are given certain names. Since the show was originally in Japan, they assume you already know what they are talking about. Once in America (or any other country, for that matter), the jokes must change to suit the audience, but may lose their purpose.

So, although some dubbed anime can be worse than their original Japanese versions, you may have to stick with them to understand everything that is going on....or study REALLY hard to understand Japanese, because even subtitles can be misleading....especially fansubs.

buhbibutterfly

03-01-2007, 11:23 PM

well i still say that the show -- one piece was absolutely butchered. yes i realize that not all dubs are bad. depending on how i heard it first is which of the 2 i would probably like of the series. best example is slayers series. I love this series dubbed even if it was played by megumi in subbed. however since i'm used to hearing it dubbed i like that version better.

back to one piece dubbed. I hate how 4kids got the liscensed for this. there are plenty of kid shows out there if they wanted to get something to show but i still believe they should never have gotten this one. with all the things they did to it, cutting out loads of episodes, editting out scenes and taking out things from scenes they just made it one of the most horrible shows ever in anime history. at least that's what i believe. Also, sanji voice...no matter, they could have gotten a better voice....have they seen the original before casting his role....it doesn't seem like it....his whole image change with that ghetto accent they gave him.

-----

i probably should stop this now.... but yes i know they're alot that goes into producing a series and i know it can't be 100 % perfect, and i get that Japan is more accepting of what they play on their tv's and what kid's see but i still don't like the changes in anime's where i know that there's been changes....i feel the same way sometimes 'bout when an manga is made to an anime and one of my favorite parts don't show up in the anime cuz it's been taken out....

--------

tiffany grant - chocolate - socerer hunter
monica rial - momiji - blue seed ova - although i think i like amanda lee better in the series
christopher patton - shin area 88 and sasame pretear
wendee lee - kiyone from tenchi
greg aryes - 2nd place - supergals....

NovaStar

03-01-2007, 11:34 PM

buhbibutterfly

03-01-2007, 11:41 PM

^_^ That wasn't meant to flame, only inform - I agree with you on One Piece is bad.
VERY Bad as far as dubs go

yea i know...but i just thought i'd add that in...since i was just gonna answer your list...but that would have been too short....i do agree...there are some good ones that i like

elfenstein

03-02-2007, 02:54 AM

Well, if you complain about the english dubs, you should listen to the german ones sometimes. :p

Somehow, over here, they can dub movies and television easily with a good quality. But if it comes to Anime (and Videogames btw.) there are often used voice "talents" who can never have seen a microphone close up before. Not always though, some are even quite tolerable, and the german dub of "Mononoke Hime" is at least as good as the japanese one, if not even better.

But good or bad dub, that's what DVDs are for. I never buy a DVD (regardless of anime or other things) where the original language track is not included (with english or german subtitles if it's a language I don't understand, of course).

Have fun,
Elfenstein.

dream magician

03-02-2007, 03:09 AM

I totally think they should be dubbed either in japanese or in our language,I would not understand if there are no voices coming from them,It would be so horrible!:unsure:

Gold_Roger

03-02-2007, 06:33 AM

Thanks to all the new people who posted, especially you, NovaStar (your second post, not your first one; it was rude). I didn't think this topic would catch on. (Maybe I should put it on another forum and see what I get.)

I guess after hearing so much negative attention about dubs, I started to wonder if liking subs more was better because I like dubs, too. I was afraid to admit it.

The only dub and dubbing company I do dislike is...well...you know!

As for the Naruto dub, I don't see the problem here. Besides Ino's voice (it's not working for me personally). And it's Cartoon Network who has been playing with the opening and closing songs (my biggest pet peeve), isn't it?

As for the purists, they really can be very demanding. Some of the stuff they complain about is unfair. In fact, I've rethought the quotes up there.

As for dubbing in general, it's much better in 2007 than it ever was in 1996. Fans, or soon-to-be fans like I was, are much smarter than we used to be. Companies know to pay us otaku some attention.

Almost done, I confess. I watch a lot more dubs than subs. I only watch one real sub regularly which I will not say because I shouldn't repeat myself.

In conclusion, Gold_Roger will be...a subbie and a dubbie!

NovaStar

03-02-2007, 11:27 AM

Thanks to all the new people who posted, especially you, NovaStar (your second post, not your first one; it was rude). I din't think this topic would catch on. (Maybe I should put it on another forum and see what I get.)

I guess after hearing so much negative attention about dubs, I started to wonder if liking subs more was better because I like dubs, too. I was afraid to admit it.

The only dub and dubbing company I do dislike is...well...you know!

As for the Naruto dub, I don't see the problem here. Besides Ino's voice (it's not working for me personally). And it's Cartoon Network who has been playing with the opening and closing songs (my biggest pet peeve), isn't it?

As for the purists, they really can be very demanding. Some of the stuff they complain about is unfair. In fact, I've rethought the quotes up there.

As for dubbing in general, it's much better in 2007 than it ever was in 1996. Fans, or soon-to-be fans like I was, are much smarter than we used to be. Companies know to pay us otaku some attention.

Almost done, I confess. I watch a lot more dubs than subs. I only watch on real sub regularly that I will not say because I shouldn't repeat myself.

In conclusion, Gold_Roger will be...a subbie and a dubbie!

^_^;; I didn't mean to be rude so I apologize if I was - though I'm very glad you found my post informitave, if there's anything else you wanna chat about or have an opinion on :) Post it, I'd love to see more from you - Or just PM Me

Whatever you prefer

^_^

Quik

03-02-2007, 05:33 PM

"The dub voices are horrible!" - Usually those who watch the subs will say this about every show(if they're of the "Purist" type who only watch one type of language I dont think this is true. I believe most people are capable of forming unbiased opinions about voice work.

"Thye changed the music to crap!" - If you're speaking about the opening themes of some shows Yeah they do that(most notably Funimation) other than that I don't really recall seeing anything edited.You may not have caught any music changes in the anime you've watched, but it does happen. In todays world of anime dubs, it hardly happens at all. It happened more in the past.

"The dialogue is full bad puns and lame jokes!" - Wrong again: They're full of the same Jokes which have been either changed to make sense, or replaced by another joke because that joke would not make sense And this is just not true at all. There are times when jokes or puns are added into dubs that werent there in the original Japanese. It may or may not happen as often as it did in the past, but it still happens.

"They won't release uncut DVDs!" - Unless I've seen something that says "As Seen on TV" I usually assume it's uncut(at least I think so anyway)Take here for example (http://www.amazon.com/Pokemon-Master-Quest-DVD-Collectors/dp/B0002YLDQO). This boxset may appear as uncut to you because of lack of "As seen on TV", but its the dub, with edits, cuts and all. Its not uncut, and the Japanese version is not added. It does happen.

"They edit every little thing out!" - Also Not True: That's the TV Station's doingNo, not all of time it isnt. The dubbing companies also make cuts.

Gold_Roger

03-02-2007, 06:32 PM

^_^;; I didn't mean to be rude so I apologize if I was - though I'm very glad you found my post informitave, if there's anything else you wanna chat about or have an opinion on :) Post it, I'd love to see more from you - Or just PM Me

Whatever you prefer

^_^

Don't worry about it. I was just a teensy bit irritated. But I'm glad someone actually researches this sort of thing. If the purists of any anime were to read your editorial then maybe they would see the work it takes to make dubs (I certainly learned a thing or two). If we can agree on at least one point, then there might be some equality in this fandom.

It's easy to criticize dubbed anime when all you have to do is buy it and watch it.

I might do another thread but it probably won't be that interesting. Oh well, back to the drawing board.

NovaStar

03-02-2007, 06:50 PM

I dont think this is true. I believe most people are capable of forming unbiased opinions about voice work.

You may not have caught any music changes in the anime you've watched, but it does happen. In todays world of anime dubs, it hardly happens at all. It happened more in the past.

And this is just not true at all. There are times when jokes or puns are added into dubs that werent there in the original Japanese. It may or may not happen as often as it did in the past, but it still happens.

Take here for example (http://www.amazon.com/Pokemon-Master-Quest-DVD-Collectors/dp/B0002YLDQO). This boxset may appear as uncut to you because of lack of "As seen on TV", but its the dub, with edits, cuts and all. Its not uncut, and the Japanese version is not added. It does happen.

No, not all of time it isnt. The dubbing companies also make cuts.

It seems that you found flaws in my article: it wasn't meant to be perfect by any means at all, I do have points on what I say, as do you, however It is my belief that there are far more sub fans(whom are not willing to give a dub a chance) because of the excuse of "It's not spot on to the Japanese"

My whole argument behind that article is: Of course it isn't, it's an adaptation."

I notice you say a few things I want to bring up

Number One: I was refering to Purists when I said "those whom do not take into consideration the english dub"

Two: I am fully aware of music changes in the past. I'm not discounting them: I acknowladge it, Funimation constantly changes the Op/Ed Themes into English.

Three: Again I quote "Spot onto the Japanese" - and this is where things urked me abit: Of course there are jokes that are not in the Japanese - Those jokes would Not make sense to a casual anime fan, - They probably would to you or I but they do not to most people whom are just starting out in anime - thus, they are either changed slightly, OR are completely traded off for another joke which is American Standard.

Four: I HEAVILY Spoke on 4Kids in my article: Pokemon is your example here when you gave me that link The Master Quest DVD Collection: Pokemon was produced by 4Kids: 4Kids will slice ANYTHING. a Pokemon Box Set IMO Hardly Qualifiy's as uncut: I challange you to find an Uncut Pokemon box set ;)

Five: You Are Correct: however they make "For TV Edit Episodes" - For Example: Take Tenchi Muyo! The Original OAV, Aired on Cartoon Network in 1993 where Night Before the Carnival(Due To It's Length) is was Edited into a Two-Part episode.

DVD's (UNLESS SPECIFIED) (Or By 4Kids because 4Kids does it anyway with EVERYTHING) Hence The Name "4 Kids") Are usually full length episodes which haven't been cut.

I agree with The Music Part and The Cut's part: But I believe you misinterpited what I was trying to say.

Prince Darien

03-02-2007, 11:14 PM

I think dubbing when done properly can make a really nice series. America is getting better at dubbing anime everywhere. Look how far we have gone since Speed Racer!

I would really like to a lot of the older series redubbed with more care than they were given at the time.( For example Sailor Moon), but it costs money for companies to do that.

I prefer English subtitles in general.

Jin the windmaster

03-03-2007, 12:42 AM

Sumtimes animes should have just never been dubbed at all like the yu yu hakusho movie the golden seal, great movie HORRIBLE voice acting

ParaParaJMo

03-03-2007, 07:38 AM

4Kids will slice ANYTHING. a Pokemon Box Set IMO Hardly Qualifiy's as uncut: I challange you to find an Uncut Pokemon box set

Does having region 2 sets count?

Five: You Are Correct: however they make "For TV Edit Episodes" - For Example: Take Tenchi Muyo! The Original OAV, Aired on Cartoon Network in 1993 where Night Before the Carnival(Due To It's Length) is was Edited into a Two-Part episode.

Tenchi was aired on cartoon network back in 1993? Wow, I did not know that. I know it originally came out in Japan back in 1993 but didn't know it came out to America soon after. The farthest I remember ever finding a Tenchi video was way back in 1995 or 1996. Kind of interesting CN would bring back Tenchi seven years later.

Did the Tenchi that air on CN back in 1993 still have the same dubbed voice actors? I haven't watched Tenchi ever since I graduated from high school.

NovaStar

03-03-2007, 10:14 AM

Does having region 2 sets count?

Tenchi was aired on cartoon network back in 1993? Wow, I did not know that. I know it originally came out in Japan back in 1993 but didn't know it came out to America soon after. The farthest I remember ever finding a Tenchi video was way back in 1995 or 1996. Kind of interesting CN would bring back Tenchi seven years later.

Did the Tenchi that air on CN back in 1993 still have the same dubbed voice actors? I haven't watched Tenchi ever since I graduated from high school.

To Answer Your Questions: Yes Tenchi Muyo's OAV Aired in 1993 for a very short time on Cartoon Network, The Japanese release of the OAV happened in 1992 not 1993, so they had some time to dub it.

As for the Voiceovers? Yep, Same Voiceovers, there was only one problem with the Tenchi Muyo OAV - The Nudity(Ryoko and all them): They had to edit in Bathing Suits electronicly for it due to censorship laws on TV.

As For a Region 2 Set? I doubt Region would matter: Pokemon was nabbed by 4Kids: Regardless of Region 4Kids dubs anything to be for children only, so it wouldn't really matter.

Quik

03-04-2007, 02:52 PM

however It is my belief that there are far more sub fans(whom are not willing to give a dub a chance) because of the excuse of "It's not spot on to the Japanese"I agree with this too for the most part, I just dont think most anime fans, even purists, will put down dub voice work just because its the dub. As I said before, I think most anime fans would form opinions on voice work without bias against the dub.

Two: I am fully aware of music changes in the past. I'm not discounting them: I acknowladge it, Funimation constantly changes the Op/Ed Themes into English.I was getting at the music edits outside of the opening and ending themes. Such as music remixing in the actual episode.

Three: Again I quote "Spot onto the Japanese" - and this is where things urked me abit: Of course there are jokes that are not in the Japanese - Those jokes would Not make sense to a casual anime fan, - They probably would to you or I but they do not to most people whom are just starting out in anime - thus, they are either changed slightly, OR are completely traded off for another joke which is American Standard.I was saying that there are times when jokes are added in dubs that were not there at all in the original Japanese production. Maybe not very often, but it does happen.

Four: I HEAVILY Spoke on 4Kids in my article: Pokemon is your example here when you gave me that link The Master Quest DVD Collection: Pokemon was produced by 4Kids: 4Kids will slice ANYTHING. a Pokemon Box Set IMO Hardly Qualifiy's as uncut: I challange you to find an Uncut Pokemon box set ;)You challenge me? o_O Of course I wont be able to find an uncut Pokemon boxset. That was my whole point, as you said yourself: "DVD's (UNLESS SPECIFIED) Are usually full length episodes which haven't been cut." Usually.

Also, I didnt read your essay. Only your first post.

NovaStar

03-04-2007, 03:49 PM

I didn't mean to come across as rude there :) so I hope I didn't

Read the Essay xD - some good stuff in there.

Grim Scythe

03-04-2007, 03:58 PM

sorry if this is already here but im not reading all of that
if an anime is to be dubbed it needs to be done well
like Trigun and Cowboy Bebop< GOOD dub
not Onepiece or Naruto < BAD ,(so bad) horrible,So horrible)
^(makes me want to tear off my ears and beat the one(s) responsible for making me tear off my own ears with my own ears)

deaddingo

03-05-2007, 04:37 AM

I hate dubs. I love subs. I still don't think that we should get rid of dubs though, they help younger kids and people who don't really like anime to get into it, and lots of huge anime fans love dubs. I also speak a little japanese so subs are a lot easier to handle without interupting my viewing experience.

In other words, all of you guys should learn japanese.:p

chob

03-05-2007, 10:05 AM

i despise anime dubbing cos you dont quite get the feel the the anime. japanese are good at expressing things on one word with their voice, i.e. one word has many meanings. so Subs all the way for me.

ParaParaJMo

03-05-2007, 10:14 AM

Hey NovaStar thanks for answering my question. I did not have Cartoon Network on my TV until like 1998 or so. Mostly my local cable company did not offer it.

Well sometimes some shows may not work in English. Ever seen our movies and cartoons dubbed in another language? Ever seen that Ninja Turtles anime? Most people would probably think the Japanese voice acting in that show is beyond terrible! Krang sounds like the English Meowth but just in Japanese but abusing booze.

The Turtles sound god awful. So Japanese voice acting is not that perfect all the time. I thought the Garou Densetsu/Fatal Fury dub far surpassed the original Japanese version. Joe in the Japanese version sounds like an old man while in the dub, it captures his childish carefree character.

chob

03-05-2007, 10:18 AM

maybe they japanese version of ninja turtles like they done with the power puff girls

Archangel Apollo

03-05-2007, 01:15 PM

Saban has made the most politically correct works of Japanese TV. Look at what he did to super sentai with Power Rangers. But I guess the fun action out does the ultra terrible acting and all that stuff.
But did you know that Mighty Morphin Power Rangers is exported and dubbed in Japan for broadcast?
I haven't looked for others but I'm sure they get dubbed too.

The only issues I have with dubs is if:
~they get people that can only read the lines off the page and can't put any emotion into what they are doing.
~lines are changed for the sake of changing it, like calling a carrot a potato when the character is holding a carrot.
~adding in jokes when serious dialogue had been used.
~scenes are cut just cause one character smacks another.
~the animation is censored through airbrushing or recoloring.

ParaParaJMo

03-05-2007, 02:08 PM

But did you know that Mighty Morphin Power Rangers is exported and dubbed in Japan for broadcast?
I haven't looked for others but I'm sure they get dubbed too.

I have lived in Japan on 3 different occassions but never knew that. I must have missed it or something. I knew it was aired in the Philippines and other parts of southeast Asia whenever I was ever in those countries. I know the creator of Kamen Rider was OUTRAGED over the American version though.

Oodzuchi

03-06-2007, 08:51 AM

Go ahead and make some dubs IF you'll make good ones.

Luzifer

03-06-2007, 03:32 PM

Dubs are perfectly valid, admittedly though some do have problems, especially when a particular joke in the anime makes perfect sense in japanese but none in english (the imfamous homophone jokes). However, those are rarely of import to the overall worth of the anime and can be ignored. On the comment that the dub brings bad voice actors, well, there is always a chance that an actor brought in will be bad whether it is in english or japanese. This argument was more valid back in the beginning when anime's had to take Z-level voice actors since they weren't given much thought in America but now that they are a valid industry it will begin to improve. This can actually be used to fight many of the criticisms brought against dubs. The dubs will improve as anime's become more a part of american culture since putting down the money to get a better voice actor will seem more and more like a good investment. So you who spurn dubs might want to buy them for no other reason then it will convince people that there is enough money in them to warrant the investment. This can also be used for jokes to. More return on investment, more investment into decent joke writers. So in general dubs are good and in general i personally prefer the dubs becomes i'm more able to interpret mood and subtlties of thought when i hear it in english because my japanese isn't good enough yet. I can get a course understanding of the idea from the japanese version but still the fullest grasp eludes me unless its in english.

However, i do hear the censorship argument but thats not a valid reason to dislike dubs since thats not the fault of the dubs so much as the rules of censorship they must be released under. If an anime wants to be on toonami or whatever they have to censored according to american television laws set up by, among others, the FCC (who have earned my everlasting scorn), which are as we should all know FAR more restrictive then those in japan. So don't blame the dubs for being censored, even if they were merely subbed they would be censored, blame the television regulations and if you want to change those send a letter to your local congressman. I know I will.

Thats my two cents

Lil~Shawty~Gurl

03-09-2007, 05:38 PM

NovaStar

03-09-2007, 06:07 PM

Dubbing sucks period! How can you enjoy dubbed anime that is made str8 JAPANESE? It's not the same...I personally gotta feel the vibe, the climate of the situation and when I see some samurai talking in english that sounds pretty fake...

You act as if your opinion is Gospel, not to flame but when I see "Dubbing Sucks Period" It's quite obvious that you haven't any good reasoning behind it. - Feeling the Vibe? yeah I can understand that, but you have to realize too That a Dub is an ADAPTATION Of Course it won't be straight on to the Japanese.

Everyone is intitled to their opoinions I just don't like seeing someone blasting something in which people put such hard work into.

Read my Article. It's posted in this thread. I know it won't change your mind, but I think you should read it, it may give you a new respect for what goes into Dubbing.

Lil~Shawty~Gurl

03-10-2007, 06:33 AM

NovaStar

03-10-2007, 11:18 AM

Ok my bad ~IN MY OPINION~

Anyways they don't have to put ''such hard work'' into it they chose it on their own and I didn't ask these people to dub it so I don't have to be thankful. Personally I see no reason for dubbing but if there is a lot of people who are too lazy to read the subs then I guess dubbing is quite important :-] How can you say that japanese voices are annoying? That's the greatest thing about anime it's different. You can't express the same emotions using english that's impossible. Japanese people talk like that and that's very unique, it makes anime unique in general.

I just hate dubbing in general. It's the same when I see f.e George Clooney talking in german (cuz i have a lot of german channels and they dub everything I swear EVERYTHING) and that sounds so fake that I'm loosing my will to watch it.

I respect everybodys opinion but I just can't understand it that's all...No offence to anybody but I gotta speak my mind that's how I am.

Again you have an opinion: Don't ever call me too lazy again, You'll make an enemy out of me very quickly, I watch BOTH when it comes to my anime, I just have a preference. you are exactly the type of person that I speak of when it comes to purists.

I'm not going to attack you at all any further, but I don't agree at all with your reasoning and let me break down some things for you.

Number One: You don't have to be thankful for it? That is absolutely false: You do: I hope you don't forget, that not only do these companies do dubs(which I could care less if you watch or not) but they also liscence a series for North American Distribution

NEVER Did I say "The Japanese Voices are Annoying" don't put words in my mouth, or if I did, I certainly didn't mean to come across as godly - I have great Respect for people like Orikasa Ai, Hashiyabara Megumi, Sakamoto Maaya or Any other Voice over you want to throw at me.

Personal Example is NOIR: Which is one of my favorite series: The Chloe character being my favorite character, I find that Hillary Hagg can not match up at all to the Job Aya Hisakawa did.

What you are trying to do is make me out to be a Purist of the Dub Variaty: Which I am not: I watch both, and take great pride in the fact that I do and that I'm able to do so without taking things so seriously.

The whole REASON I wrote that article was to explain that Dubs were not on equal par with subs: So mission accomplished, Thank you for proving me right in every sense of the word.

You have an Opinion: and I completely respect that: but don't crap all over mine, I refuse to turn this thread into a Flame war, so I will ask you nicely, if you want to respond and talk about it (Civily) in any mannor

Feel Free to PM Me. - I just really don't like the way you came across here, I have NOTHING against you at all.

Nova

Edit: I'm very sorry if I came across as a jerk.

Lil~Shawty~Gurl

03-10-2007, 01:56 PM

lol you take things too serious you gotta chill ;-)

Now...

First off I never called you lazy...

2nd off I never said that japanese voices are annoying TO YOU so you are the one who should stop putting words in MY mouth ;-)

...cause I said it all IN GENERAL...I directed that to everybody who said that japanese voices are annoying so you didn't have to write that essey cause like I said NO OFFENCE but obviously you got offended for something I didn’t direct at you lol

You also failed to notice that I said it's MY OPINION and I also said that I don’t understand why people would hate japanese voices which means I wanted them to explain so we could discuss this topic but you had to get all defensive...you misred things so next time read again and try to see my point and discuss it with me instead of gettin an attitude for no reason boy...

and 3rd off what's up with ''Don't ever call me too lazy again, You'll make an enemy out of me very quickly'' <<< lol it's just internet I could careless if you're my friend or enemy...next time ask me if I called you names and stop assuming. We are here to discuss not threaten each other....

PigFarts

03-10-2007, 03:41 PM

I complain about bad dubs (or just dubs in general) all the time...but to ask if anime should be dubbed? Of course, so it can be distributed to the masses, to increase the anime's popularity, and so that the creaters/companies that distribute the anime can make a pretty profit.

Also, many people feel uncomfortable reading subtitles and listening to a foreign language constantly, so they prefer the anime to be broadcasted in thier native tongue.

NovaStar

03-10-2007, 06:40 PM

NovaStar

03-10-2007, 07:01 PM

Not to Bump at all: Anyone whom feels the need to yell at me for what I said to LSG: I don't blame you, however before you do that, PLEASE Read my blog I apologize profusely in it as well as I've done in this thread, and personally in PM With her

I meant to step on nobody's toes.

Dragonshaz

03-11-2007, 05:31 AM

umm.. yes anime show should only be dubbed if you speak another language or if its another country i dont see why it cant be dubbed.

Madel5566

03-11-2007, 09:37 AM

Personally I've never met any bad japanese dubbing before, and I prefer Subbed anytime. Dubbing in American can sometimes be acceptable but dubbing in China is absolutely disgusting. no offense but they have monotone, droning voices which does not suit the characters and turn me off. I dislike it. Very much.

Dubbing in Taiwanese would be much better and acceptable by me *likes it*

shinobi dog

03-11-2007, 09:39 AM

If you don't want to read subtitles then yes.

Lil~Shawty~Gurl

03-11-2007, 10:10 AM

Personally I've never met any bad japanese dubbing before,

Oh I did lol I remember the dubbing for Sailor Moon o man that was horrible so after that I try to avoid any dubbing for real

NovaStar

03-11-2007, 01:02 PM

There are a few bad Japanese Dubs(I prefer to call them O.L.D's (Original Language Dialouges)

Call me Crazy but I think it's a two way street, I'm not denying there are horrible Dubs(because I know their are) But there are horrible OLD's as well.

IE:Someone mentioned the Sailor Moon Dub being Horrible? - I couldn't agree more, worst thing I've ever seen

But a Bad Original Language Dialouge? to me, You're Under Arrest and Witch Hunter Robin come to mind, I couldn't stand either of them in Japanese.

Lil~Shawty~Gurl

03-11-2007, 02:46 PM

^I did lol

NovaStar

03-11-2007, 02:50 PM

BSSM619

03-11-2007, 03:03 PM

Should anime be dubbed?

yes it should, but my
only problem is that
they completely change
the bgm, when they do
that, all the emotion that
was at that exact scene
(whatever anime it is) is lost.
But, when I watch the
original one, I could
feel the emotion emitted.
Especially, in the voice,
I could feel the raw emotion.

greenwolfzero

03-11-2007, 03:08 PM

dubs are good if they have good voices, uncut, raw animation, and same music (inless it's crappy in the origanal anime).

:curses: BUT THEN THERES 4KIDS, WHO DISOBAY ALL OF THE ABOVE RULES!!:curses:

NovaStar

03-11-2007, 03:55 PM

lol, I honestly think with the world the way it is in Anime, the laws of physics don't apply anymore, 4Kids has shown us that :-p but enough about 4Kids, I think we've ragged on them enough.

I think the answer to "Should Anime be Dubbed?" is an overwhelming yes

Rowloman

03-11-2007, 04:37 PM

I hear a lot of complaining about dubbed anime.
"The dub voices are horrible!":mad:
"Thye changed the music to crap!":broken:
"The dialogue is full bad puns and lame jokes!" :oy:
"They won't release uncut DVDs!" :badrazz:
"They edit every little thing out!" :banghead:
"Just because it's a cartoon, doesn't make it for kids!":curses:

I know dubbed anime broadens its appeal (after all, if it wasn't for dubs, 90% of us wouldn't be here) but it's the bad dubs that get attention. What do you think?

It's always the self proclaimed Otaku who have problems with this.

Dub Voices are Horrible~ While at least little kids can watch it without trying to keep up, you see the action and aren't reading, it's easier to chanel surf while listening, it's legal, and I can eat easier while watching.

Changed music to crap~ That's an opinion, some people don't like J-rock and J-pop.

The Dialog is full of bad puns and lame jokes~ So are the jap versions, you just don't get them, or the translator edits it to make it more universal.

They won'trealease uncut DvD's~ Because anime is aimed at child audiences here not at you forty year olds needing your daily dose of Hentai.

They edit every little thing out~ They do that so kids don't start stabing eachother and cutting there wrists.

Just because it's a cartoon doesn't mean it's for kids~ This veries if your talking about onepiece, Naruto, TMM, and stuff like that it SHOULD be watched by kids and not old pedo's.

NovaStar

03-11-2007, 05:04 PM

It's always the self proclaimed Otaku who have problems with this.

Dub Voices are Horrible~ While at least little kids can watch it without trying to keep up, you see the action and aren't reading, it's easier to chanel surf while listening, it's legal, and I can eat easier while watching.

Changed music to crap~ That's an opinion, some people don't like J-rock and J-pop.

The Dialog is full of bad puns and lame jokes~ So are the jap versions, you just don't get them, or the translator edits it to make it more universal.

They won'trealease uncut DvD's~ Because anime is aimed at child audiences here not at you forty year olds needing your daily dose of Hentai.

They edit every little thing out~ They do that so kids don't start stabing eachother and cutting there wrists.

Just because it's a cartoon doesn't mean it's for kids~ This veries if your talking about onepiece, Naruto, TMM, and stuff like that it SHOULD be watched by kids and not old pedo's.

Um.. we talked about this: I TALKED about this in my article, 4Kids is what it says it is.. For Kids

Also You say One Peice and Naruto in statements: Naruto was changed horribly, this I agree on, One Peice was dubbed by 4Kids thus, the reasoning behind the show y'know, being aimed at kids

Fact is: Both of these if left uncut are not for kids, but for Teenagers and up, Editing Job's make them for kids :-p

Also: Self Proclaimed Otaku is a very bad thing, I wouldn't want to be a self proclaimed Hermit whom doesn't leave his house ;)

Errr...Calling people who watch TNMNT Pedo's? ...I take offense :-p I watch TNMNT All The Time X_x

Jonwolf

03-11-2007, 05:28 PM

I like both. Certain times I would rather watch a dub rather than a sub, most notably FMA. It is set in 1900's Europe, they should be speaking English. Also, when the japanese Seiyuu try and pronounce an English name like Roy or Ed it just comes out weird.

Other times I'd prefer to see it subed. Most notably, Gravitation. Voice actors for that one make me want to weep in the fetal position off in a dark corner. You can't get an American to make the noises that Shuichi makes.

EDIT: Oh, by the way. Subbed anime have the plus side of being very accessable. You can find nearly every anime subbed on youtube. You can find barely any dubbed anime for free on the net.(save for fansubs, but the quality of most of those are downright awefull))

Rowloman

03-11-2007, 05:39 PM

Um.. we talked about this: I TALKED about this in my article, 4Kids is what it says it is.. For Kids

Also You say One Peice and Naruto in statements: Naruto was changed horribly, this I agree on, One Peice was dubbed by 4Kids thus, the reasoning behind the show y'know, being aimed at kids

Fact is: Both of these if left uncut are not for kids, but for Teenagers and up, Editing Job's make them for kids :-p

Also: Self Proclaimed Otaku is a very bad thing, I wouldn't want to be a self proclaimed Hermit whom doesn't leave his house ;)

Errr...Calling people who watch TNMNT Pedo's? ...I take offense :-p I watch TNMNT All The Time X_x

There was slight bloodloss on Naruto, the Voice acting was good, Naruto stayed annoying and Naruto.

Fact is: Cartoons are more popular among children than Teenagers in america. 4kids is in the morning, what kind of teenager gets up to watch onepiece.

I said nothing about TNMNT I said TMM Tokyo Mew Mew and a grown man who watches this is a pedophile, a grown women who watches this is a lesbian Pedo simple as that.

NovaStar

03-11-2007, 05:50 PM

There was slight bloodloss on Naruto, the Voice acting was good, Naruto stayed annoying and Naruto.

Fact is: Cartoons are more popular among children than Teenagers in america. 4kids is in the morning, what kind of teenager gets up to watch onepiece.

I said nothing about TNMNT I said TMM Tokyo Mew Mew and a grown man who watches this is a pedophile, a grown women who watches this is a lesbian Pedo simple as that.

Ah, My Mistake, I read too fast.. eh... Tokyo Mew Mew, I don't agree.. I think that's a little harsh really, I can see what you're trying to say and I suppose you've got a point

But I don't think it's fair to judge people on what they watch nessicarily. so I'll leave it at that ^_^

Edit: Answering a question about "Who gets up to watch One Peice?"

Me before I got a credit card ^_^;;

Rowloman

03-11-2007, 05:52 PM

I guess yah Pedo was a little harsh maybe different.

Lil~Shawty~Gurl

03-11-2007, 06:59 PM

That's because it is - To me the Key to a bad dub is when you Change the names of a Character.

IE Usagi for Example: It's Usagi, not Serena
Or Makoto: It's Makoto, not Lita

Minako's Change I didn't mind because they still called her Mina. but when you completely change the character names, it becomes a horrible show.

Exactly! Man everytime I hear Darien instead of Mamoru I wanna kill somebody I swear lol I don't understand the reason for changing names that's pretty lame....

BSSM619

03-11-2007, 07:32 PM

Exactly! Man everytime I hear Darien instead of Mamoru I wanna kill somebody I swear lol I don't understand the reason for changing names that's pretty lame....

You ask why, to make
the name more easier
to pronounce. I like it,
if they keep the name
also.

(You could agreed to disagree)
Sailor Moon Says

Lil~Shawty~Gurl

03-12-2007, 04:17 AM

Since when Mamoru or Usagi is harder to pronounce? lol

NovaStar

03-12-2007, 11:33 AM

Since when Mamoru or Usagi is harder to pronounce? lol

I don't think that this is why they did it, I don't think at all, that the start to change the names of the characters was because of pronunciation, it was simple really, the Anime took off over in North America simply after the edits were done.

Mamoru(Darrien) was just another casuailty in the line of fire really, to be honest with you, if you REALLY wanted to get into technicalities, the biggest casualty of the Sailor Moon Dub was Zoicite, whom was originially male in the series.

Number one: at the time, it shows just how pathetic the North American Audience was as far as willingness to accept Shounen Ai parings(Malcite X Zoicite)

So there's your biggest thing

Renames like Rae and Amy I didn't mind nor did I Mind Minako being called Mina because the name itself was onto the Japanese(this coming from a guy whom watches Dubs constantly) but I would have prefered it if Sailor Moon was left alone.

Though I don't think it would have had the appeal to kids that it did, as the attention span of a kid whom watched the English dub at that age, had the attention span of a flea and thus probably wouldn't care to memorize the Japanese names.

So in all reality, Sailor Moon is a Martyr for the anime society as it's proof of what you can do to a good series, just by heavy editing

Nova

Lil~Shawty~Gurl

03-12-2007, 01:24 PM

^I did

I remember 9 years ago when I was 13 they didn't play dubbed SM in my country but they used a lector so names weren't changed at all so when I was talking to my american friend like 2 years ago and he was using all these weird names I was like ''who the hell is Serena or Darrien?''. We couldn't talk at all bcuz I didn't know who he was talking about lol

Rowloman

03-12-2007, 09:19 PM

Who really cares if the dubs change things if you don't like it go make a crappy fandub so no one can watch it or Don't watch.

NovaStar

03-13-2007, 04:07 PM

Who really cares if the dubs change things if you don't like it go make a crappy fandub so no one can watch it or Don't watch.

^_^; Mandy Clarke would slap you if she heard that,(Tomo Takino from Azu fame) She started out as a Fandubber, and Fandubbing has been encouraged by many a voiceover to help kids learn the basics.

I care if they change things too much (See my Problem with the Sailor Moon Dub)

I have a problem If: The names of the Characters are Changed

Or: The Genders of the Characters are Changed

that's my only issue with dubs really.

mythroch

03-18-2007, 07:15 AM

what a hot topic this one's turned out to be.
So here's my two cents - or dollar tweny-three - depending on whether your from europe or not.
i like dubs. i like subs. and for two entirley diffrent resons.
Dubs 1: because they're easier to understand.

2: because when they're done well, they add to the culture of the anime. not detract from it.
(now i dont intend to insult any japanese speaking menbers of the planet but direct translations to the sub do not often make a whole lot of sense. they seem disjointed when turned into english.) that said i'v seen allot of dubs that are close to the origional works and still work out well.

- on the other hand, when the japanese is flat or disjointed english dubs are obvoisly the better choice. Orphen and Saiyuki are both good examples of this. the japanese has a classic almost murical feel to it while the english dub is allot snappier. (this could probably be attested to David Matranga's work though since he played the lead in both.)

3:fowley (for those of you who dont know, fowley is the sound efects, usaual made by a voice actor.) this could have appeared in either list since the fowley is usaully the most noticable of diffrences....besides the actors couce of language. the japanese love fowley. gasps and coughs and vairous other noises to enhace the acting of the character. the dub is usaually more understated. but that can be accouted to the western prefrence for understatement than any real lack of enthusiasm. its there alright, but there much less.

Sub 1: because it is the origional artical.

2: i'm presently learning japanes and since i dont have may people to practice on, it's an excellent task exersise. i write down what i hear and then check to see how close i was to the true translation.

3: not all japanese is bad. in fact, truth be told some of the stuff out of japan nowdays is allot better then its english dub, due pramrily to the fact the anime creators are allot more sensetive to their western market and take our cultural diffrences into view.

and that's what it boils down to.. as always.. how you were brought up.

i'm sure i'm wrong on may counts here but when you generalize your bound to be.
Dub is good because it gets us closer to understanding the characters better. on our own terms, in our own langauge.
Sud is good also, it adds an elemet of interpretation and allows us to get closer the understanding of a diffrent culture.
(and this topic is near and dear to me since i'm presently studying for a position in the western half of this marvelous industry.)
Every one has their bugbrears. the little things about one or the other version they just cannot abide.
thats OK, life would be dull without them.

now the people who like dubs, please don't look down upon your sub prefering neighbours as though they were damaged or special.
sub loving denomiation, life would be so much quieter if you weren't so rabid about your attachment to the classic origional laguage. its important, we understand.
(Gosh darn it, i'm such a fence sitter.)

now that thats settled lets all share in our good will and brotherhood......
unreal tournament anyone?

NovaStar

03-18-2007, 03:00 PM

what a hot topic this one's turned out to be.
So here's my two cents - or dollar tweny-three - depending on whether your from europe or not.
i like dubs. i like subs. and for two entirley diffrent resons.
Dubs 1: because they're easier to understand.
2: because when they're done well, they add to the culture of the anime. not detract from it.
(now i dont intend to insult any japanese speaking menbers of the planet but direct translations to the sub do not often make a whole lot of sense. they seem disjointed when turned into english.) that said i'v seen allot of dubs that are close to the origional works and still work out well.
on the other hand, when the japanese is flat or disjointed english dubs are obvoisly the better choice. Orphen and Saiyuki are both good examples of this. the japanese has a classic almost murical fell to it while the english dub is allot snappier. (this could probably be attested to David Matranga's work though since he played the lead in both.)
3:fowley (for those of you who dont know, fowley is the sound efects, usaual made by a voice actor.) this could have appeared in either list since the fowley is usaully the most noticable of diffrences....besides the actors couce of language. the japanese love fowley. gasps and coughs and vairous other noises to enhace the acting of the character. the dub is usaually more understated. but that can be accouted to the western prefrence for understatement than any real lack of enthusiasm. its there alright, but there much less.

Sub 1: because it is the origional artical.
2: i'm presently learning japanes and since i dont have may people to practice on, it's an excel task exersise. i write down what i hear and then check to see how close i was to the true translation.
3: not all japanese is bad. in fact, truth be told some of the stuff out of japan nowdays is allot better then its english dub, due pramrily to the fact the anime creators are allot more sensetive to their western market and take our cultural diffrences into view.

and that's what it boils down to.. as always.. how you were brought up.
i'm sure i'm wrong on may counts here but when you generalize your bound to be.
Dub is good because it gets us closer to understanding the characters better. on our own terms, in our own langauge.
Sud is good also, it adds an elemet of interpretation and allows us to get closer the understanding of a diffrent culture.
(and this topic is near and dear to me since i'm presently studying for a position in the western half of this marvelous industry.)
Every one has their bugbrears. the little things about one or the other version they just cannot abide.
thats OK, life would be dull without them.
now the people who like dubs, please don't look down upon your sub prefering neighbours as though they were damaged or special.
sub loving denomiation, life would be so much quieter if you weren't so rabid about your attachment to the classic origional laguage. its important, we understand.
(Gosh darn it, i'm such a fence sitter.)

now that thats settled lets all share in our good will and brotherhood......
unreal tournament anyone?

Nice post, I like how you broke down the reasonings you like both for different reasons, It's refreshing to see that.

Subs and Dubs are needed to counterballance one an other in my opinion, as there would be many Dub fans whom would be mad if there were no dubs, and many sub fans whom would be mad if there were no subs.

I do have a peice of advice for you, not to nitpick :) I liked what you wrote, but in the future, can you please space what you write? some of it was very hard to understand.

mythroch

03-18-2007, 07:57 PM

sorry about that. i'm usually too busy writing to realize other people have to read it.

NovaStar

03-18-2007, 08:23 PM

sorry about that. i'm usually too busy writing to realize other people have to read it.

Don't be sorry at all. It was a good read, I just had to go over it once or twice ^_^

lamentoes

04-14-2007, 01:12 PM

NovaStar

04-14-2007, 02:55 PM

i dont really care about that..but..
the jp seiyuus are the real voice actors...

seiyuus(voice actor) is not just a job in JP now...but also kinda like idols...
and every seiyuu works really really hard...they re superexcellent people(some)

I dont really know about the voice actors in other places ... well i just talk about japanese.

失礼します

Okay.. this made me mad.. so you're telling me that Monica Rial, Tiffany Grant, John Burgmeir Chris Patton Luci Christian Kira Vincent Davis *goes on to name the 50 more VA's that he respects*

Do not have Jobs or are not real? This is very closed minded of you, granted some people may not think that they're as good as most of the Japanese Voice but discounting the work of the English Voiceovers demeens what they do, I am sure, if Someone did the same to someone like Megumi Hashiyabara that most Anime fans would be outraged.

The English VA's do a great job at addapting the Japanese to the English in my opinion, there's absolutely no reason why that should have been said.

unspun

04-14-2007, 03:08 PM

Okay.. this made me mad.. so you're telling me that Monica Rial, Tiffany Grant, John Burgmeir Chris Patton Luci Christian Kira Vincent Davis *goes on to name the 50 more VA's that he respects*

Do not have Jobs or are not real? This is very closed minded of you, granted some people may not think that they're as good as most of the Japanese Voice Actors but calling them "The Real" ones demeens what they do.

The English VA's do a great job at addapting the Japanese to the English in my opinion, there's absolutely no reason why that should have been said.

I concur, in addition to that I think in certain animes, the jp voices are more annoying than the english ones.

mythroch

04-19-2007, 05:53 AM

i dont really care about that..but..
the jp seiyuus are the real voice actors...

seiyuus(voice actor) is not just a job in JP now...but also kinda like idols...
and every seiyuu works really really hard...they re superexcellent people(some)

I dont really know about the voice actors in other places ... well i just talk about japanese.

And we're back to the rabid.......:glare:
ignoring the talents of english voice actors ( adds Hilary Haag, Troy Baker and Chrispin Freeman to Nova Star's list.) because it's not what your used to is short sighted. (saying that they have not talent is worse.)

other than that...if you want to listen only to the japanese stuff that's your choice...
...especially if you only understand Japanese.;)

NovaStar

04-19-2007, 09:21 AM

And we're back to the rabid.......:glare:
ignoring the talents of english voice actors ( adds Hilary Haag, Troy Baker and Chrispin Freeman to Nova Star's list.) because it's not what your used to is short sighted. (saying that they have not talent is worse.)

other than that...if you want to listen only to the japanese stuff that's your choice...
...especially if you only understand Japanese.;)

Mythroch, my issue wasn't with him posting only the Japanese, my issue was him mocking the industry which is dubbing by saying that The Japanese are "Real"Yes, they are, but a better word to use Would have been "Original" and not "Real" as Both Voiceovers are actually Real employees I also didn't add Hillary Crispin and Troy(though I know of all three and watch Crispin and Hillary regularly) If I were to list the Voiceovers whom I found amazing, we'd be here all day and I really don't feel like typing out a list that long.

We're not back to the Rabid, truth be told, anything he says to the contrary now, I don't care about, because he made it very clear to me that he insulted something that I really enjoy.

mythroch

04-20-2007, 03:46 AM

NovaStar

04-20-2007, 10:58 AM

i think you misinterpreted what i said nova. this is my own opionin and i understand what lamentos said. i belive his comments are short sighted.
and i merely added to you list as an comical offside comment not a refrence. i kind of picked up the extent of you naming for the "goes on to name the 50 more VA's that he respects" :p
plus i think my last comment still sticks since lamentoes location says tokyo (true or not i dont know.) in which case he probably only listens to the origional since i doubt there are english dubs with japanese subtitles out there.....
(Correct me if i'm wrong about that. i'm curiouse now.)

There are no dubs in Japan, and if their are, I have absolutely no knowledge of them. as far as me respecting other VA's, I do. - I would apreciate not being targeted for comical effect because I respect something.

lamentoes is very shortsighted. I'll leave it at that.

Antares

04-22-2007, 07:25 PM

Dubs help little kids that maybe can't read that fast or can't read at all, so it's good. I like both of them, and right now I'm more into te subs just because after the summer I'm going to take japanese =3 so yes, it's easy to practice (plus, I learned english watching really OLD Barney and Sesame Street lol I'll do the same with this). But, I really prefer spanish dubs over english. They leave the music just as it is (well, Sakura Card Captor is an exception that I'm still trying to know why because in the past, they translated all of the DBZ themes). The names and the dialogues are the same as well (but not if it is translated from english). Plus, japanese names don't sound weird in spanish or any kind of name... so, yeah, spanish rulz! xD

hyosoka

04-25-2007, 12:14 AM

Not all dubbing is bad. Anime like Fullmetal Alchemist for instance has very good voice actors in my opinion and I perfer the dubbed version over the subbed. Also subtitles can hurt your eyes after a while, especially if it's low quaility.

yup....i go with u.....original language (japanese) is better, because i like their word.....beautifull...:laugh:
nihongo wa suki dayo....sore kara...hanashimasuyo:D

Dubs help little kids that maybe can't read that fast or can't read at all, so it's good. I like both of them, and right now I'm more into te subs just because after the summer I'm going to take japanese =3 so yes, it's easy to practice (plus, I learned english watching really OLD Barney and Sesame Street lol I'll do the same with this). But, I really prefer spanish dubs over english. They leave the music just as it is (well, Sakura Card Captor is an exception that I'm still trying to know why because in the past, they translated all of the DBZ themes). The names and the dialogues are the same as well (but not if it is translated from english). Plus, japanese names don't sound weird in spanish or any kind of name... so, yeah, spanish rulz! xD
but without dub we can study japanese language..so i think dubbing is unhelpfull....
original is the best:cool:

minna san daijoub?

NovaStar

04-25-2007, 07:47 PM

yup....i go with u.....original language (japanese) is better, because i like their word.....beautifull...:laugh:
nihongo wa suki dayo....sore kara...hanashimasuyo:D

but without dub we can study japanese language..so i think dubbing is unhelpfull....
original is the best:cool:

minna san daijoub?

I'm very sorry, but this is the most innacurate statement I have ever heard you can not at all Study Japanese through Subtitles, and anyone who says they can I'll call them out on that bluff and say to them they're a liar.

Anime subtitles are produced by an AMERICAN Company on DVD's, they are sometimes not at all accurate and even if you were to "Learn Japanese" from a Subtitle, you would only learn bits and peieces of a fragmented sentance, which if spoke in Japan would probably mean nothing and you would be a laughing stock.

So you learned that "Baka" means Idiot? or "Nani" means what? - I'm sorry, anyone who says "I'm watching Anime so I can learn Japanese" is either very very misguided, or is very uninformed and not telling the truth.

To The Mods: I offended, I'm sorry, but this is something which had to be said.

If you truly want to learn Japanese: Buy a Book.

Antares

04-25-2007, 08:20 PM

I'm very sorry, but this is the most innacurate statement I have ever heard you can not at all Study Japanese through Subtitles, and anyone who says they can I'll call them out on that bluff and say to them they're a liar.

Anime subtitles are produced by an AMERICAN Company on DVD's, they are sometimes not at all accurate and even if you were to "Learn Japanese" from a Subtitle, you would only learn bits and peieces of a fragmented sentance, which if spoke in Japan would probably mean nothing and you would be a laughing stock.

So you learned that "Baka" means Idiot? or "Nani" means what? - I'm sorry, anyone who says "I'm watching Anime so I can learn Japanese" is either very very misguided, or is very uninformed and not telling the truth.

To The Mods: I offended, I'm sorry, but this is something which had to be said.

If you truly want to learn Japanese: Buy a Book.

Just in case this was for me: I know I said that I'm practicing, and it's true, I'm practicing to learn how to listen to it. I did mention that I'm going to take japanese over the summer. Knowing a few words and sentences, that's a bonus, but to truly learn I know I need to take classes and buy books.

So, lets keep the nice atmosphere of the thread and stay on the subject.

myahon

04-25-2007, 08:38 PM

Final Fantasy Advent Children was better Subbed, but Ghost Stories was better dubbed by ADV.

I think it should be an option on the DVD menu, but when airing it on TV lean towards subs.... and if not, use a GOOD actor who will stick to the script.

NovaStar

04-25-2007, 08:49 PM

Your opinion on a Good Actor is someone whom sticks to literal japanese I suppose? :) however you must realize that when you're speaking about arining something on TV, Things will HAVE to be changed in order for it to come across better. you can't edit something to "lean towards Subs" either you use them or you don't.

There is no in between, and a Dub would come across better for a North American Audience.

myahon

04-26-2007, 09:57 PM

NovaStar

04-27-2007, 09:48 AM

depends on the channel I suppose. Somethings like Blue Gender can get aired in their entirety meanwhile the far less risky One piece was edited pretty bad. I hated one particular line in Advent Children while I'm complaining.

There is such thing as Subs that aren't horrible. They are rare but they
are out there.

This has to do with Dubs how? I never said "Subs are Horrible" I said you can't learn Japanese from them, which is entirely true, and once again anyone whom says they learn Japanese from a Subtitle, is lying to you.

Also: I must inform you, One Piece is a HORRIBLE Example of a Dub: it was dubbed by a company known as 4Kids entertainment, 4Kids always slices up their shows and edits them for children which explains why the dub was done so very badly.

I have never known, minus a few specialty channels, an Anime to be broadcast in Japanese with Subtitles. - so if that's the case, then It's extremely odd.

However, I will say this much: First off, don't think of me as rude towards you, Dubs are just a hobby of mine I take very seriously.

Second; please don't use One Piece as a referance towards All Dubs: it's a general concensus that 4Kids should be shot and killed, there are much better Dubs out there than those.

NovaStar.

the japanese ed gein

04-27-2007, 02:27 PM

eh personally i dont really give a damn as long as it falls into my hands somehow. dubs dont bother me as long as they arent too americanized with the cartoony childish voices and the horrid editing of anything moderately seedy or "immoral" to make it sutible of 5 year olds who probably dont get it anyway. subs are fine as long as they at least attempt to make the english tangible and not have the "all you base are belong to us" effect.

Lil~Shawty~Gurl

04-27-2007, 03:21 PM

I disagree I learnt a lot from anime. Of course I'm studying japanese by myself the same way as I was studying english by myself and listening to japanese music and reading subs helps me A LOT

Troiya

04-27-2007, 11:09 PM

i personally prefer to watch anime with subs or raw. I guess since I am gradually learning Japanese culture and language I don't find the voices as annoying as some do. In fact, I used to find their pitches a bit too high, myself, but as I became more familiar with the language I found them to be increasingly normal. There are some OP/ED songs that feature singers with rather deep female voices (Alto, etc)

That said, of course there should be English dubs. Some people have dyslexia while others simply have a hard time following along while reading the subs. They find they have to view twice. Once to read and once more to watch. That said said... I do have a major pet peeve when some dubs do not give you the option of turning on the Japanese audio track.

If they dub it but include the original Japanese (and in most cases if they do that they include the Eng. Subs too) I am perfectly satisfied!

marus

04-30-2007, 04:31 AM

Well, I download Sub animes , and watch dub animes on TV, but I agree that some dubbed really sucks, especially one piece, in which I have watched both english dubbed and chinese dubbed of one piece. The english dubbed is really horrible. But I have watched some good dubbed as well. But I watch mostly subbed. But I agree that the dubbing have improved a lot. still got more room for improvement to get the level that we watch on animation Movie and hollywood dubbing standard

ZloyPryanik

04-30-2007, 06:44 AM

All the reasons above are applicable to the english-speaking countries, right? Here, in Russia, things are different...

###here lies some sentimential story, you don't nave to read that###

Firstly, let me describe the situation. There is two major otaku formations in Russia: old-school "hardcore fans" and so-called "moonies" (deriverd from Sailor Moon), a new wave.
Hardcore fans, pure otakus, are mature and experienced anime lovers. They understand the main idea of anime and respect it's traditions. They'd started to watch anime from a long ago, so their tastes were formed upon an old good titles. Often they know japanese good enough to watch raws. Their mission is to keep otaku traditions and transmit it through the time. They're like some "elders", or such ^_^.

However, there is one much more crowded faction - "moonies". The rapid grow of this formation is caused by popularization of anime. Someone of merchants had realised, that anime is a breath of fresh air after endless hollywood actions and soap operas, and anime flowed down to the unprepared audience. Most of them saw only "cartoons with blood" (hello, "Hellsing"!), "cartoons with giant robots" ("Gundam") or even (sarcastic) "funny chinese cartoons". They are people with no respect to the japan culture or anime traditions. They saw no idea, no spirit of anime. The only thing they realize - that anime "is cool", because others told them so. For them anime is a mainstream.
Most of them saw only few titles - "Sailor Moon", maybe "Hellsing" and "Chobits", but they think it's enough to consider themselves as "anime guru".
Well, maybe I'm too rough on these poor kiddies, still, these ignorant brats irritate me alot. I'm sorry.

In ancient times (^_^), when anime was an underground culture for chosen ones, "elders" watch anime with english subs, or in raws. It was heavenly time, when all the anime lovers lived in harmony, and anime community was solid.
Of course, there were some russian fansubs to attract new members, but these translations were of excellent quality, because every disputable phrase was examined by the whole bunch of experts.

But then some greedy traders had realized, that anime has a great potential.
Anime starts to become popular, the number of translated titles increased rapidly. And, as expected, quality of translations decreased drastically. Anime-trading industry became directed toward "moonies", who were too ignorant to read subtitles, even in russian.
Newly hired narrators and voice actors had no talent at all T_T Normally, you could hear only one yacky voice in translation. And voice-over dub is awful.
Not only from aestetic side, but even true meaning of replics were distorted.

The funny thing is, that most the voiceovers and subs are made from english subs ))) Yeah, it's true. English is far more easy to lern than japanese.
Therefore, the number of mistakes raised in geometric series.

Summing up, nowadays russain dub and sub quality is still low. Well, there is some good ones, but most of voiceovers and subs are horrible. But there is one thing that gives me hope. As times goes by, I encounter more and more good russian subs and dubs. Maybe after some time there will be a big pile of really awesome subtitles...

###here the sentimential story ends###

But now, I prefer english subs and dubs. To be more accurate, I prefer subs only, with the original japanese voices. Japan has a great experience of voice acting, their seiyus in most cases are better even than english ones. That's the answer to the topic's question.
And as in Russia, I think the dubbing was made for newbies.

NovaStar

04-30-2007, 09:19 AM

Judging by your talk of Traders, I'd say that a majority of things are bootlegs that you spoke about, it's not all that common to see it, especially if after you say, the Russian- Anime fanbase has gone up so much in the last little while.

As for the Moonies, we have them here too, we also have what I like to call the Narutophiles and the Inu Freaks I myself have to deal with one on a daily basis. so there you go, you know you're not alone.

I am glad however, you're an Anime fan, in a place where it's seemingly so hard to get it.

Hina-chan

04-30-2007, 03:40 PM

NovaStar

04-30-2007, 03:49 PM

Anime could be dubbed for most people to understand. On dubbed they revised it to make the words fit when they are talking but when it comes to sub, you could probably understand clearer of what's going on. They exactly sub on what they are saying without revising.

Again, I go back to my Literal Subs problem - people say "Subs translate the literal meaning of things" The truth is, that couldn't be any further from a true statement. The Subtitles you read are produced by the exact same company which does a dub. They may change wording in the Japanese, but in most cases, it's still a dumbed down version of what is said.

Subtitles are NOT literal. They never have been.

ZloyPryanik

04-30-2007, 05:29 PM

Speaking of bootlegging.
Yes, I must admit there is licensed russian anime. With many voices and high-quality translation.

But... you know, even flawless technologies are useless, if voice actors simply doesn't understand the anime. For example, how would you like Lina Inverse with a deep voice of a 45-year-old mature woman? Or a squeaky chicken-like Alucard's voice? And so on.
Translation is far from ideal too. Bold commercial translators easly cuts out every "complicated" phrase or word. So, the meaning of some dialogs often changes straight to the opposite ))

About subs:
With sub you get more information, than with dub. You read the text and simultaneously hear the conversation. Two streams - audio and video - are merging in your brain to build a full image.
Something like that... for me, it's much more easier to read subs. Dunno why.

FaceKillah

04-30-2007, 09:10 PM

Ami~chan

04-30-2007, 09:24 PM

deaddingo

05-01-2007, 02:41 AM

You guys know what I hate? The Love Hina dub.

Man that is a bad dub.

But the fruits basket one is really good.

NovaStar

05-01-2007, 09:13 AM

Anime is like food. It should be prepared well, or not at all.

When a dub turns out fantastic (Cowboy Bebop, Yu Yu Hakusho, FLCL, to name a few) it makes watching more enjoyable.

But when a dub turns out like absolute crap (Chobits, a good deal of Sailor Moon) it's painful to listen to. It is then that it's worth it to read the subtitles, even though you might miss something.

The only problem I have is that a majority of Anime fans will be adiment against watching any dub, granted there are some dubs which are great, and some dubs which are horrible.

The only type of person I really, and truly can not get along with is the person who will not give something a chance.

Ami, you make excellent points on Sailor Moon, it is the epitome of a bad dub, however, I have to say, 90 % of the Dubs that I have seen, weren't all bad.

I think we as fans do not realize, just how hard it is to do a dub, and so we are critical towards how it is done. Dubs are much harder to do than people think.

Lil~Shawty~Gurl

05-01-2007, 04:45 PM

Meh... I hate the subs. I mean, why waste time trying to watch and read what they say because I don't understand them, when I can just watch and listen in English. Dubs are awesome... not matter how lame some of them are. lol

It's because you are lazy lol I bet you hate reading books too...probably reading in general. How old are you? Just curious... :rolleyes:

Anime are not some cartoons you watch 'cause you are bored. It includes Japanese tradition too and english dubs kills it PERIOD. These so called ANNOYING VOICES are part of a beauty of anime. I'm not going to give it a try like somebody said because I tried it many times and it didn't work out for me. Hearing dubs I don't feel like I'm watching anime it's not the same. Real anime fans respects the japanese vibe and climate and if you prefer dubs it means you are just too lazy to read the subs...

Oh and I hope the guy who deleted my previous post is happy that this one is MORE INFORMATIVE....sigh

Regex

05-02-2007, 12:19 AM

It's because you are lazy lol I bet you hate reading books too...probably reading in general. How old are you? Just curious... :rolleyes:

Anime are not some cartoons you watch 'cause you are bored. It includes Japanese tradition too and english dubs kills it PERIOD. These so called ANNOYING VOICES are part of a beauty of anime. I'm not going to give it a try like somebody said because I tried it many times and it didn't work out for me. Hearing dubs I don't feel like I'm watching anime it's not the same. Real anime fans respects the japanese vibe and climate and if you prefer dubs it means you are just too lazy to read the subs...

Oh and I hope the guy who deleted my previous post is happy that this one is MORE INFORMATIVE....sighFor the record, I deleted your previous post because simply saying "Real Talk!" makes no sense. I considered it to be spam, and I removed it, because it did not convey any complete thought.

Now. As for what you said in this post. I completely respect your desire to preserve the original art of the anime writers, and the voice actors, but you have to understand that most anime is an adaptation of a manga. So it's already outside of the original "vibe" and "climate" that it was created in.

But the real art to anime is not the Japanese voices. It's the story and the art, and the voicing. Some anime is dubbed well, and some is not. Hell, sometimes the original Japanese is just as bad. Of course it's not as easy to notice that if you haven't spent a great deal of time in Japan.

But if you want to say that people are "killing" the art by dubbing it in English, look at the alternative. You are reading the subtitles, you miss all the nuances of the art itself, because you have to focus on the words at the bottom of the screen. Any anime director will say that they'd rather you have it dubbed and lose a little in translation than lose all the imagery that the artists have worked so hard to create.

But most of all. People have different preferences. Remember that. Some people focus on one area, while others will focus somewhere else. Just because you feel that the art is in the original voices, that doesn't mean that people are lazy for preferring the dubs.

Myself, I think some anime have great dubs. Trigun and Cowboy Bebop are wonderful examples of this. Many others, not so much. it's a case-by-case decision.

Fiery

05-02-2007, 01:49 AM

I agree with Regex. Dubbed animes really should be considered on a case-by-case basis.

I don't have much to add to what he's already said, but I will say this. Some animes I've seen have such horribly translated subtitles, that my frustration in trying to decipher them while simultaneously attempting to watch the actual thing killed any ambition I had to begin with.

I would gladly take dubbed voices over ambiguous, grammatically incorrect subtitles any day.

Lil~Shawty~Gurl

05-02-2007, 03:21 AM

mythroch

05-02-2007, 09:43 AM

Due to my weak english I don't know how to explain this but...I don't care if the subs are not exactly translated from the original japanese language I just want to understand the meaning of the words. I was talking about the sounds and voices. You said that reading the subtitles I miss all the nuances of the art itself which is not true. I read a lot and I read fast I don't have a problem with that. Subs also helps me a lot with japanese because I'm currently studying that language and hearing the accent and reading the traslation is very helpful. I don't see any negative things about subs. When I see a damn samurai who is japanese living in Japan expecially in ancient times and talking in english then that's the most messed up thing in the world...americans can't replace that japanese expression with their voices no matter how much they will try. I still think that people who prefer dubs are too lazy to read that's why they prefer it or they just some random cartoons fans and are not really into anime that much 'cause they just like animated movies in general. I remember I had a friend who liked anime because the graphics were so amzing...I don't get it :-/ so he was watching anime only because it was well drew? What about the story? What about the climate of vibe of japanese culture? SMH that's why it makes me mad.

ok that raised my blood temperature just a little. some of your points were valid, some were not but they all got mashed in there together so it came out sounding like you actually believe what you're saying.

(you should read post 77 if you want a full desciption of how i fell about this cause i aint repeating it all and it'll help you understand where i'm coming from.)

firstly - i'm going to comment on you assertion that people who watch anime dubbed are lazy.....i grew up with my nose in a book. i speed read as a hobby. i do however watch dubbed anime. stating that i don't rate as an anime fan because i watch dubbed is insulting.

secondly - stating that english dubs lack the depth or inflection that japanese actors is a misdirection.
assosciating or comparing english gramatics and tonal inflection to japanese is almost as absurd as it is pointless. they have two entirely different structures. and if your studying japanese you should now that.
english has its own inflections, inflections that english voice actors are more than well versed in. if you cannot disinguish between the two thats your loss.

third - granted there are show styles which have a better feel in japanese i.e samurai period pieces, but the locality basis of anime nowdays is so broad that your statement just doesn't sit solid. lets pull a couple of shots out of the hat.
- Chrono crusade: its set in america. 1920's america. so if what you say is true then the natural language should be english. if you ever bothered to watched it dubbed you would also know that the ADR script when to lenghts to get the correct slang and terminology of that period. while still, as far as i could see, stay relivly true to the origional text.
- hellsing: england. they speak english there incase you were wondering.
- and just for a bit of flavour:
Saiyuki - if you're clued in on the initial origin of this story they should be speaking an ancient form of chinese/mongoul.
i'm not completely making fun of you dude, but you have to realize that anime isn't only set in japan. if you think it is you should vary your viewing habits a bit before you make comments like that.

finaly - anime can look pretty. don't doubt it. but assuming that an anime show is watched purley for its eye candy (unless that is what it's designed for.) makes no logical sense.
anime is largely...largely, based around neorealism. in other words it gets you to feel what the charcter feels by telling you how they feel instead of letting you guess. japanese and english laguages do this diffrnthly because thei laguage stucture is diffre. but they both do it and, with some exceptions
if you're baseing your assesment of the wider comunity by your friends viewpoint then that's probably the most shortsighted comment you have made.

i can respect it if you think you, personaly, should only watch subbed, but i will say i think your reasoning is off.

Slumber

05-02-2007, 06:55 PM

I'd prefur not watching television in silence with subtitles. Unless, it's a silent movie, or something. :P

shakkun

05-04-2007, 05:53 AM

no.. for me, it's better watch the original version..

hireshi

05-04-2007, 06:35 AM

No, it ruins the real versions. It should stay in the good old Japanese language, and Sub it.

shakkun

05-04-2007, 06:47 AM

or maybe it's better if there's a translated text..

NovaStar

05-04-2007, 10:40 AM

I dunno really, for me it's just I enjoy things in my own language. I watch things in Japanese too, but, it's all a preference when it comes down to it I suppose.

Sub or Dub you still watch Anime.

Eternal Dream

06-03-2007, 07:35 PM

NOOOOOOOO...
They could let the original voices!!!
If somebody dub, it looks so fake!!!

Noemi Hernandez

06-03-2007, 07:47 PM

Anime should not be dubbed
They do edit every little thing out.
Some of the voices are horrible
They kinda change the story a little
i think anime should be left just the way it is. In Japanese.

http://www.animeforum.com/image/thum_8422446635f5949a46.jpg (http://www.animeforum.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=12002)

xoXMizukiXox

06-03-2007, 07:55 PM

well..alot of the time dubs will totally ruin a series *coughcough* ONE PIECE
but anyways..if it weren't for dubbed anime, i wouldnt be the happy otaku i am today ^^ lol so we need dubbed anime..they should just TRY and find some nice voice actors or fix the dialogue a bit or something..

CheatMasta

06-04-2007, 05:08 PM

It depends. Usually I find the original voices are better and relate to the character better, but if you've only ever heard a dub then I don't think don't matters to you as much.

Kaza-SOU

06-04-2007, 08:11 PM

Well, I prefer subtitles more. Because I experience some emotion and expression lost when watching a dubbed anime. Word play also known as "pun" cannot be easily understand when an anime is dubbed. Therefore, it reduces the funny essences in an anime. In the end, I honour those fansubs who can make a good translation, so we can understand every little meaning in an anime. *cheers*

Shotel

06-05-2007, 08:15 AM

Yes, they should. Cuz I was introduced to anime when it was dubbed.

NiesaxShiori

06-05-2007, 08:20 AM

no.i prefer the original .. so we can feel the real situation..and some voices are not suit with the character..they should provide subtitle..

Shotel

06-05-2007, 08:36 AM

no.i prefer the original .. so we can feel the real situation..and some voices are not suit with the character..they should provide subtitle..

Hmmm. Me like Byakuya's voice in Japanese.
As for being suited, Ichigo in the English version sounds like the Japanese one.

|Ai|

06-07-2007, 10:26 AM

Anime shouldn't be dubbed because it places voices upon the characters that wern't the original choices for the actors..It ruins the anime for you if you hear it in both because you start to make biased decisions because whichever you hear first you will think is the best so you automatically assume that way is better..Yet the original way the anime was made is always the best..not the copy.

Also I personally think that anime shouldn't be dubbed because you get some pretty dodgy dubbing projects out there..For instance I watched an anime one time in dub then rewatched it in sub...The storyline in both was really really different in what was being interpereted as what was being said...It really ruined that anime for me so much so that i've never ever watched it again since then.

The_Aluminum_Cow_Theory

06-07-2007, 10:43 AM

I don't mind dubs. If you listen to original Naruto cast and then listen to the American cast, you'll notice they have some of the same voice characteristics.

However, I prefer manga to anime.

Gaarademon

06-07-2007, 10:55 AM

it depends on which anime youre watching but i think it should be dubbed
for people who cant read very well

Neal Raven

06-07-2007, 11:21 AM

ive never heard a good bub so far, but naruto's is borderline acceptable except that damned 'believe it!'
i ALWAYS go for subbed nowadays

Shinigami Ichigo

06-07-2007, 08:03 PM

Generally, I like the sub version better, but that isn't to say that there should be no dub. Some people, sadly, cannot read, much less read along with subtitles. There are some dubs (Yu Yu Hakusho, Trigun) that I actually enjoy more than the original. It just depends on who the company hires and how good they are with their particular characters.

Xieshunnuan

06-07-2007, 09:31 PM

well....if u dont lik to read or understand jap.I dont really lik dub tho.

Shotel

06-08-2007, 11:15 AM

I DESPISE reading while watching animes. I accept dubs.

chappie1989

06-08-2007, 08:13 PM

My opinion is that Anime should not be dubbed.

The voice over in English is really bad and they don't put as much emotion in the voices of the anime.
The Japanese voices give of more emotion than the dubbed version but that is my opinion.

mythroch

06-19-2007, 12:38 AM

just so i have a better understanding of your statement, that shows have you watched that were dubbed?

Kincho Hanako

06-19-2007, 01:08 AM

I prefer pro dubbed anime. I really dont read fast.
But watching the original Japenese versions are quite good.:D

Zeta_Stryker

06-19-2007, 10:17 AM

Of course it should be dubbed. Because I wouldn't want to see the intro/ending in japanese all the time. I'd want to see some english credits. Like who voices who. And the staff names.

Don't get me wrong, but these fansubs is good. But it's mostly in english I'd rather see it. Which the following dubs I found to be really good IMHO

- Tokyo Underground
- Black Cat
- Coyote Ragtime Show
- The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya

This' another reason why I look down on anime dub haters. Sometimes diss them and tell them to buy the anime on DVD upon it's license.

Shinigami Ichigo

06-19-2007, 01:19 PM

I think the chief reason, for me, to watch sub over dub, is to get past the localization done by American companies. Switching in American names, rice balls = donuts and stuff like that. I am not against dubs, as I do enjoy some, but the amount of them that turn out badly is greater than the amount that turn out well. The original (in this case, subbed) is almost universally better.

Dragonshaz

06-25-2007, 11:27 AM

Well it really depends,sometimes it can suit but sometimes not,i prefer fullmetal alchemist in japanese but when they dubbed i tought it was horrible but dragonball z,when they dubbed i tought it was good because of the characters voices,like goku sounded like goku and vegeta sounded like vegeta so it really depends,but you get what i mean

Rem

06-29-2007, 12:53 PM

Yes, since not all of us are elititists who care about accuracy in their cartoons.

Exquiro

06-29-2007, 01:09 PM

Personally I hate dubbing, I'm yet to find one I like. But I think the option should bet there, in most cases (assuming you aquired the anime legally :p) subtitles are also an option so those that hate the dubs can go for subs. The only times I ever find myself listening to dubbing is when I'm feeling too tired and lazy to bother with subtitles.

Tempest Wind

06-29-2007, 01:14 PM

I hate most dubs, so I usually go with subs.

Anpan Hayase

06-29-2007, 03:10 PM

The woman that does the voice of Naruto is like 80.

Rem

06-29-2007, 09:48 PM

The woman that does the voice of Naruto is like 80.
So is the women who does the japanese voice, ZOMG.

I think things would be differen't if cartoons could emote, but they can't. If I'm watching a foreign film I can't stand dubs, because they honestly don't get across the desired emotion very well. But when dealing with anime or really any cartoon, the characters facial expressions are so rudimentary that it's really a none point.

Sake!Sake!

07-04-2007, 01:37 PM

I wish that they could dub it but keep the original dialogue as much as they can. Because the violence, profanity, ect. is what makes it SO great lol.

kj369kj

07-05-2007, 10:21 PM

I dont think so....
I think people should learn japanese..
It only takes an year and less if your really into it
Or all of all they should just read the subtitles.
I have no problems with them
Only the laughing mans subtitles in GITS. 2nd gig
Way to much dialog but i don't mind because it is a good anime

Delsus

07-08-2007, 06:17 AM

DEFINITELY NOT!! Dubbed anime sound weird, many conversation become suck, and of course, the theme song become...uh, weird. I like Anime in their original form, because it's supposed to be that!!

Sasaria_Genei_Ryodan

07-08-2007, 08:19 AM

no no no no no >< !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i hate it wen its dubbed it sux seriously !!!!!!!!!
i love to hear the original voices its the best !!!!
dubbed sux !!!!!!
subbed rox !!!!!!!!
XD !!!!!!!!!hahahahahahah !!!!!!!!!!

ArachnoSapien12

07-12-2007, 05:41 PM

i think all anime should just be subbed as thats the way it originally was, and most likely the way it should be. another reason is that the japanese voice actors are some of the best around so you can really hear the emotion in their voices, and you can tell that the people who made the anime really thought about the voice actors.

Shia_san

07-12-2007, 09:18 PM

should anime be dubbed? .......NOOOOOOO!!!!
the dubbed version sucks.:ninja:

Elphaba

07-12-2007, 09:21 PM

I hear a lot of complaining about dubbed anime.
"The dub voices are horrible!"
"Thye changed the music to crap!"
"The dialogue is full bad puns and lame jokes!"
"They won't release uncut DVDs!"
"They edit every little thing out!"
"Just because it's a cartoon, doesn't make it for kids!"

I know dubbed anime broadens its appeal (after all, if it wasn't for dubs, 90% of us wouldn't be here) but it's the bad dubs that get attention. What do you think?

omg you are so true they totally change the story.

Surix

07-13-2007, 06:30 PM

NovaStar

07-14-2007, 01:24 AM

Sometimes a good dub happens, like project ako and dominion tank police. those dubs are even better than the origional japanese versions. More emotion and alot more comedy. sometimes the campyness is a real plus.

I'm Alive!

And how fitting that this thread is still going, because i love this thread, Anime fans have to realize, Dubs are an adaptation, they will never be spot on to the Japanese, so hoping for that is Crazy.

There are plenty of good Dubs out there,

Greg Ayres Used to be a snobbery "I only watch the Japanese" fanboy? What does he do now? Dubs english stuff.

Not saying there weren't bad Dubs(Gokusen... oh god)

but a Majority? aren't as bad as made out to be at all.

doomnezeu

07-17-2007, 07:02 AM

At first, i was totally against dubbing. Then i thought: "what the hell, if folks want to see this show in turkish, or russian, or some weird african dialect, then why not". It matters what you choose, after all. I still prefer to see my anime in Japanese, with the good ol' engrishuu subtitles, for various reasons, one of them being my respect for the seyuus. Though I think many anime shows *can* get good dubs (good being a bit redundant here, hehe), I tend to consider the original language to be of more importance. The said show was, after all, thought to be in japanese, many inside jokes and other related stuff only work well in the said language. You can't translate all the twists and turns that a complex language has to offer, at best you just "fake" it.

Plus, probably the most important thing, you just can't beat a japanese female seyuu in terms of epic cuteness. :P

Pyrobrave

07-17-2007, 05:34 PM

It really depends on the company doing the dubbing. Yes most fan dubs suck like a vacuum. But I have yet to see an anime dubbed by funimation be a bad dub. I believe they portray the emotion very well, and they match the voice to the character very well also. Other companies do a good job too. Geneon and ADV do pretty good on most of the animes.

Azel

07-17-2007, 07:00 PM

-Snip-

Thank you for clearing up all the false conceptions about dubbing for all the people that rag on it constantly. THANK YOU.

VraieEsprit

08-14-2007, 05:24 PM

It really depends on the company doing the dubbing. Yes most fan dubs suck like a vacuum. But I have yet to see an anime dubbed by funimation be a bad dub. .

Did Funimation do the Tenchi Muyou OVA part 3? Or was that Geneon? I can't remember off the top of my head. Either way listening to Ryouko's new voice in English makes me want to throw sharp pointed things at the television. But that's because it's a change in voice artist (and that often seems to happen in English dubbing, but not in the original Japanese casting, which is a frustration).

I'm not overly bothered by dubbing usually, except with a few specific shows. I watched Tenchi Muyou originally on Toonami when it was first aired (even cut to pieces as it was) so I got used to the English voices and so in some ways I still think of the characters with those voices more than the Japanese ones.

But since I got into anime and identified seiyuu that I really like listening to, I tend to watch most in Japanese with the subs these days. And it is true that major plot things are ripped about sometimes in translation.

I mean, speaking as someone who's studied languages a lot, I know you can't expect a perfect translation and that some things do not colloquialise exactly from one language into the other (especially with such wide cultural differences as with Japanese and English). And even the subs don't give a very exact translation for this reason.

But some of it is really illogical. I noticed that "nikushimi" is often translated as "anger" rather than "hate" in some shows for whatever mysterious reason. (Is hatred too violent a concept or something...?)

I do have major issues too with the Fushigi Yuugi English dub because there are countless scenes where the plot dialogue or whatever has been completely rewritten so that it bears no resemblance to the original lines at all. And this seems to be simply because whoever's dubbing doesn't believe that the original dialogue would be "suitable" or whatever if they were to translate it straight.

For example, Nuriko's cross-dressing/transexual behaviour is muted down in dialogue. The scene that springs to mind is when they managed to change a conversation about the sound of (subtitle quote) "a homo being strangled" to "the worst sound I ever heard" (dub quote) and with Nuriko giving a completely different reply. "That's how I feel about your flute!" (Eng dub) vs "Excuse me for being gay!" (subs). Tasuki's (bad) language is often changed around, too.

I dislike when things are written out from the dub to make it more "politically correct" or to use less "controversial" language, etc.

But I think that all anime series should still be dubbed. Not everyone wants to listen to Japanese. Not everyone wants to read subs and watch a show. And anime should be available to those people without censure - it doesn't make them less of a fan in my opinion if they love the show but have only seen it in their native language :) . Just because I'm a languages geek and I love listening to the Japanese doesn't mean everyone feels the same way...

And fandubs aside, I've also noticed that you can rarely get anime with decent English subtitles if there isn't an English dub for that series. It helps if the subtitling makes sense...so the work going into translating it for an English audience is beneficial to subbed viewers as well, I think.

I think it's cool like that. The bottom line is if you don't like it dubbed don't watch it dubbed. I def. don't subscribe to the stuck up otaku view that anime should only ever be watched in Japanese. Sometimes you can glean completely different impressions of characters from different voice tones of different seiyuu/voice artists after all :D

Vraie

Rem

08-15-2007, 10:35 AM

"The dub voices are horrible!"
This happens most often for shows aimed at kids. most dubs aren't bad nor are they good they just are.

"Thye changed the music to crap!"
It's not 1996 anymore they don't even bother with that stuff anymore.

"The dialogue is full bad puns and lame jokes!"
And you know what? THAT is what the japanese find funny, even in the japanese it had terrible puns.

"They won't release uncut DVDs!"
Because no one will buy them, shamen king and yugioh are proof of that. And every series that isn't on tv is uncut, you have to search really hard to find one that isn't.

"Just because it's a cartoon, doesn't make it for kids!"
But some are, people whine about bad dubs for KIDS SHOWS. Kids don't care, and that's who a lot of the shows with terrible dubs are aimed at.

BTW I know these were not the views of the original poster, just responding the these complaints.

[BlackDeath]

08-17-2007, 06:42 PM