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Alias
02-04-2007, 03:55 PM
Hello !

I know the topic sounds a tad silly, but that's pretty much the best descriptive subject I could come up with.

Anyhow, I'm interested in learning different ways to join two sentences together, and I don't seem to be able to find any good webpages for a reference.

So, without further rambling, could someone please tell the most common "joining words" in japanese, and how they could be used ?

Here's some of the things I'd like to know:

"because", as in "I walk because I don't own (have) a car."
"since", as in "Since my mother is ill, I need to go."
"reason for something", as in "It's raining, so I will take the bus."
"by, means of", as in "I managed to find my way there by asking help."
"if", as in "If tomorrow is sunshine, we go have a picnic."

And anything else you can think of, along the same lines. As simple as possible, with more focus on learning the correct way to think of the sentences than focusing on if it's a formal enough or such. Also, if you know how a specific sentence must be weighted to distinguish the parts from one another, please include it as well.

Creating japanese sentences is fun (at least for me), but if I cannot join them together, I feel like I sound retarded when speaking... :banghead:

- Alias

MistressPookyChan
02-05-2007, 09:10 AM
"kara" is great for "because". That, or "node".
車を持てないから、歩きます。 Because I don't have a car, I walk.
kuruma wo motenai kara, arukimasu.
お母さんを病気だから、帰ります。 Because my mom is sick, I need to return home.
okaasan wo byookida kara, kaerimasu.
雨がふっているから、バスに乗りました。Because it is raining, I took the bus.
ame ga futteiru kara, basu ni norimashira.

mE.
02-06-2007, 09:57 AM
Interesting, I want to help.
Do you know how to read hiragana and katakana?

you can add "mo" insted of "wa".
I am a student. You are also a student.
わたしはがくせいです。あなたもがくせいです。

with to you can link to nouns with "to".
Give me an apple and peach please.
りんごとももをください。

You can use "no".
My house.
わたしのうち。

You can add "soushite" (and) to link to sentences.
I am a student and I go to school every day.
わたしはがくせいです、そうしてまいにちがっこうへいきます。

If[],[] is made like this [Informal past]+ら、[sentence].
If you go to school on foot, you will need half an hour.
がっこうへあるいたら、30ぷんかかります。

Alias
02-07-2007, 03:28 PM
Thank you both of you !

Unfortunately my skill in hiragana is quite limited, and kanji/katakana is something I have completely no idea of.

I'd be delighted if you could write or edit the posts to contain the romanji versions as well.

Also, the distinction between "kara" and "node" still seems to cause a headache. Could either of you explain the difference in more detail ? I've checked through

- Alias

akiko_kalla
02-07-2007, 05:50 PM
Thank you both of you !

Unfortunately my skill in hiragana is quite limited, and kanji/katakana is something I have completely no idea of.

I'd be delighted if you could write or edit the posts to contain the romanji versions as well.

Also, the distinction between "kara" and "node" still seems to cause a headache. Could either of you explain the difference in more detail ? I've checked through

- Alias

"node" is stronger than "kara" so to speak. It implies there is less of a choice or freedom. For example, when speaking to your boss to say you can't come to work because you are sick, you would want to use "node" to imply that you are so sick you cannot work. On the other hand if you are saying something like "Since this book looks interesting, I'm thinking of buying it" you would use "kara" instead of "node." (or something else entirely) At least that is how it was explained to me.

As far as connecting sentences, it depends on the types of sentences you are using. Not all transition words connect sentences together. Here are a few more:

tatoeba -means for example
souieba -means speaking of that...
mazu -means first
saigoni -lastly, finally
KEredomo -however
sonoaida (ni) -during that time
sono ato (de) -after that
sono mae (ni) -before that
sorede -then, so
dakara -so
tsugi ni -next
tokoro de -by the way
mata -also

Also, if you are listing ajectives in a series but want to imply there is more than what you are saying use "shi." sumisusan ha yasashi hi kireida shi shinsetsu desu. (Smith-san is gentle, pretty and kind as well.)

However some conjunctions you can't just put in place the way we do in English. For example, in Japanese you would say: Home I get after, I him will call. Whereas in English we would more commonly say I will call him after I get home. There are some links in some of the threads here to language sites that might help, or a search for beginning Japanese.

mE.
02-07-2007, 05:51 PM
I strongly suggest learning at least hiragana.
Katakana is used for expressing sounds and foreigner words like banana, cd... so its secondary, as for kanji first learn hiragana and katakana good.
Here is a place were you can learn Hiragana and Katakana.
http://www.learn-japanese-kanji-hiragana-katakana.com/Hiragana_46Chart.htm
http://www.thejapanesepage.com/katakana1.htm
http://www.thejapanesepage.com/readarticle.php?article_id=2

The rest of the links are here:
http://www.animeforum.com/showthread.php?t=51364&page=2

Watashi wa gakusei des(u).Anata mo gakusei des(u).

Ringo to momo ("o" (can and doesn't have to be used)) kudasai.

Watashi no uchi(/ie (means "house" as well).

Watashi wa gakusei des(u), soushite mainichi gakkou e ikimas(u).

Gakkou e aruitara, sanjuppun kakarimas(u).

The u at the end can and be read but it is also left out.
he is read as e in the case above
wo is read as o in the case above
ha is read as wa in the case above.

MistressPookyChan
02-08-2007, 11:15 PM
I added romanji to my list. Sorry for assuming! But yes, I also recommend learning hiragana and katakana. It will dramatically increase your learning potential.

akiko_kalla
02-09-2007, 06:51 PM
In fact, I think it makes things easier to understand. At least for me it did. Romanji can be very confusing because it's not always consistant, or the person writing it isn't, and many times pronuciation is only written in hiragana or katakana. It also helps greatly to have the syllabry in your mind when you are conjugating words if you are intending to seriously study Japanese at some point. Things will look like patterns more than random memorizations.

Also, my Japanese teacher always said that it's best to start with hiragana because the pronuciation of students is better than if she starts with romanji. She's Japanese and didn't change how she was teaching, just didn't let us see the romaji so we didn't try to use English sounds for Japanese. There are programs that aren't that expensive for pronuciation and kana, so if you don't have access to a teacher at the moment you might look into that.

LavaBug
02-10-2007, 06:06 AM
Also, if you are listing things in a series and want to imply there are more that you are not naming, like I like oranges, apples, etc. Use "shi." Orenji shi ringo ga sukidesu.


you can also use "ya" for that...like "neko ya, inu ya, iroirona doubutsu ga imasu."

MistressPookyChan
02-10-2007, 06:21 AM
please keep the discussion on particles and the like; save the romanji discussion for a different thread. Thanks!

Famahama
02-10-2007, 05:36 PM
Hiragara is basic(i mean really basic) japanese right? if not , why should i learning this then? is it because to recognise the words?

AzureDark
02-11-2007, 12:21 AM
Yo, fellow Bruneian.

Yes, hiragana is basic Japanese writing and the foundation of Japanese alphabet structure. Even if you can't read or write kanji/chinese characters, in some texts (e.g. manga), the furigana, or hiragana appendage, is added.

You can learn Japanese through romaji but it's generally not recommended especially when learning it seriously.

mE.
02-11-2007, 05:43 AM
Like AzureDark said Hiragan is the basic.
Without it you can't read Japanese even if you know Katakana and all of the Kanji. And there are quite a few texts that besides Kanji and katakana have written hiragana (katakana explanations in hiragana are rarer).

Katakana is used for forigner words and sounds effects, so when ever I see katakana first I try to think what word in English sounds similar.

Well the question now is why learn kanji? Well there are a lot of Japanese words which have 2 or more meanings:
"Hayaku" it can mean "early" and "quick". So there are 2 different kanji for the same word (with a different meaning). So its a big help (depends on the way you look at it ^_^) in reading.

for Alias : You can link sentences like this:
I woke up, drank coffee, went to school and came back home.
(Watashi wa) okite, koohi o nonde, gakkou e ikite, uchi e kaerimashita.
[Sentence -te form],(...),[normal sentence].
Its said the other way in Japanese.

Like this:
I go to school after I eat breakfast.
So first its I eat breakfast, then I go to school.
[sentence -te form] kara,[normal sentence].
Asa gohan o tabete kara gakkou e ikimasu.
And like this:
I read a book before I sleep.
Neru mae ni hon o yomimasu.
[informal sentence] mae ni [normal sentence].

royal_ken
02-11-2007, 06:56 PM
haredomo -however

Also, if you are listing things in a series and want to imply there are more that you are not naming, like I like oranges, apples, etc. Use "shi." Orenji shi ringo ga sukidesu.


There are two things that caught my eye. First of all, "haredomo" in Japanese would roughly mean "even if it's sunny (good weather)..".

On the other hand, phrases like keredemo, soredemo, shikashi can mean however

The other point is that, the explanation for the use of "shi" is quite confusing. "Orenji shi ringo ga sukidesu" isn't a proper sentence. It'll be nice if I could hear what that's all about before I write anything further.

akiko_kalla
02-11-2007, 10:12 PM
There are two things that caught my eye. First of all, "haredomo" in Japanese would roughly mean "even if it's sunny (good weather)..".

On the other hand, phrases like keredemo, soredemo, shikashi can mean however

The other point is that, the explanation for the use of "shi" is quite confusing. "Orenji shi ringo ga sukidesu" isn't a proper sentence. It'll be nice if I could hear what that's all about before I write anything further.

I mistyped and meant keredomo. Sorry about that!

I also corrected the part about "shi." I was reading two different aspects regarding its use and decided to only include one for the sake of simplicity and I myself got confused. It should make more sense now. My Japanese teacher said the use of shi when listing things can imply there is more than just what is listed. It does have other uses, but I chose to just list one. Sorry if I offended you; I was just trying to help. My brain doesn't always think clearly as I'd like when I'm reading and typing, especially when I'm taking things out of the context of the text. Thanks for noticing. ^_^ Just another reason why it's better to learn from a class or living there instead of the internet.

Famahama
02-12-2007, 10:16 AM
Does anyone know how to pronounce "tsu" it so close to "su" .

MistressPookyChan
02-12-2007, 10:21 AM
say a bit of a t sound, then su. It is a difficult sound, but will come with practice.

And btw, keep this topic on subject. Thanks!

MioAkaichou
02-13-2007, 07:29 AM
Ahh! This is way too general ^^ there are hundreds of ways to join sentences! And a lot of them are really annoying because you have to change the whole word instead of just adding like 'if' or 'when'. But thats the beauty of this language :D you can say whole sentences in one word (example: mottekaeritakunachatta = Unfortunately, he[/she/I/they/you/we/ it] did not want to bring it home with him [/her/me/them/you/us/it])

But yeah, hmm, some joining examples, hai kore:


-zu ni = without doing

Example: Nemurezu ni, sukottorando ni unten shimashita
Without sleeping, I drove to Scotland

-nagara = while doing

Example: Shimbun wo yominagara, kohii wo nomimashita
While reading the newspaper, I drank coffee

-ba = if/when

Example: mainichi nihongo wo benkyou sureba, hayaku jouzu ni narimasu
If you study Japanese everyday, you will improve quickly
or
Otona ni nareba, nani ni naritai desu ka?
When you grow up, what do you want to be?
(lit.when you become an adult)

oh yeah! This is an easy way to joinn sentences! Change 'desu' to 'de'

Watashi no namae wa Mio de, 16sai no onna no ko desu
My name is Mio and I am a 16 year old girl



By the way using 'shi' as an 'and' is like saying 'and whats more' or 'not only___ but ___ so___' Its like listing off all the reasons for something

Example: Yamapi wa utau no ga jouzu shi, odoru no ga jouzu da shi kakkoii
shi, yasashii hito da shi, daisuki da yo

Not only is Yamapi good at singing, but he's good at dancing, and
he's good looking AND he's a kind person, so I really like him

Using 'shi' on its own at the end of a sentence is like saying 'and so on'. Like there are more reasons and so on but you don't need to say.

For example, what I just said is a 'shi'

Example : there are more reasons and so on
hoka no yue ga aru shi

wasspam
03-10-2007, 05:52 PM
Isn't it 'そして' and not 'そうして'?

Ertai87
03-20-2007, 05:50 PM
Isn't it 'そして' and not 'そうして'?

...yeah I was gonna say that too...

(I apologize for the fact that that's my first post on these forums :P)

LavaBug
03-20-2007, 06:10 PM
actually it's pretty much the same

Hanzo
03-21-2007, 10:15 PM
I added romanji to my list. Sorry for assuming! But yes, I also recommend learning hiragana and katakana. It will dramatically increase your learning potential.

I master both of those...now to Kanji....so hard yet easier to write.....for me though. ^^;;
I'm also left handed too so my characters might be way off from what Japanese ppl expected. ^^;;;;

By the way, how do you guys write ur Japanese words in Hiragana, Kanji, or Katakana on the computer??

Ertai87
04-15-2007, 12:36 AM
@Hanzo: I replied to your question in another thread.

@Thread: I wanted to write something on my Facebook the other day, but I realized halfway through I didn't learn the proper grammar structure. I asked my friend who's taking Japanese 2 if she learned it, but she didn't either. I'm wondering if anyone else knows. I was writing something really stupid cause I was bored. Here's what I started writing:

ここに いみは ありませんよ。 [sentence goes here]

はい、 とても つまらない ですよ。

What I wanted to write in the [sentence goes here] thing is something along these lines "I'm writing this just to see how many people comment on it because it's in Japanese". We never learned compound phrases in class though. Any ideas?

mE.
04-15-2007, 06:43 AM
By the way, how do you guys write ur Japanese words in Hiragana, Kanji, or Katakana on the computer??
I use "IME" program, you just write how you would pronounce the word and it writes in Japanese for me.

slasheddream
04-17-2007, 01:58 PM
I can really recommend this online guide http://www.guidetojapanese.org/
What you're looking for is located here
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/compound.html

if you're using windows you can install the neccessary files from the windows CD and then set your keyboard to JP. I can't really give you a step by step explanation because my windows is German.

Ertai87
04-17-2007, 10:53 PM
Unfortunately we don't learn to read Kanji for another year (201 course; I'm starting 102 course in 2 weeks), so I couldn't read...well, any of that...the only Kanji I know are the numbers except 7 (Komamura-taicho wasn't a prominent enough character in Bleach :P) and "hito".

The problem is the second "because" and the first (implied) "because" have different meanings, and I wouldn't know how to structure those using "kara" (I'm too lazy to switch to Japanese in case anyone's wondering why I'm typing in Romanji...I've really gotta set up a hotkey one of these days :P). Also, that site doesn't say how to create the subordinate clause "how many people comment on this".

Oh, and after checking out that site, I feel kind of stupid...we were taught to use "wa" for question phrases, like "ano hito wa dare desu ka" (lit. "that person is who?", used as "who is that person?"). Apparentely we don't how to properly use "ga" till 201...a friend of mine who just finished 102 said she didn't learn it. We also only learned the formal form, which is why I use "desu" all the time (in case anyone's wondering)...casual form is in about a month (although I know some from Anime).