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kendoka7
01-09-2007, 11:53 AM
Kanji....what can I say about kanji.
:samurai:
Probably the most frustrating thing for those of us learning Japanese as a foreign language is kanji. Kanji are both amazing and depressing at times. Bottom line, learning kanji is a life-long endeavor for most of us.

What does everyone think? Comments/questions about kanji......:curses:

LavaBug
01-09-2007, 12:31 PM
i think i rather have a text written in kanji that i can look up if i dont know them than some guy posting wrong transliterated romaji and asking me what they mean ^^°
kanji can be darn helpful...but are hard to learn...i find the hardest part is not forgetting about them after a week or so

WhatIsAUserName
01-09-2007, 11:27 PM
Just a question: Is Kanji read identical to the Chinese characters it's based off of? I mean, I knew the two were similar, but when my mother managed to rattle off entire sentences and give a (relatively) close translation to what I knew, I was fairly surprised.

So, if the two aren't read identically, what are the differences?

Even said, it's not going to make it easier for me if I were to learn Japanese- I don't know a word of Chinese either.

Capernicus
01-10-2007, 12:50 AM
Kanji is horrible. @[email protected] Yes you can look them up but what exactly ARE you looking for when you try to find their meaning? Confusing....I forget Kanji that is not basic (like 私) within a few hours. T.T I maybe have about....90 memorized. *sighs*

As far as how close they are...I'm not really sure. They are similar, yes, but I think my sensei told us the original Chinese characters are generally much more complicated and detailed.

LavaBug
01-10-2007, 01:33 AM
modern chinese characters are usually shorter (less stroke count) than the classical ones that are more identical to the ones still used in japan.
like the kanji for east it´s 東 in japanese but 东 in chinese but originated from the same original kanji.
some other kanji are basically the same but are a little different in stroke count or looks like 德 (de - virtue) in chinese and 徳 (toku)in japanese.
also some may have the same meaning and are written the same way, but are just spoken completely different like 猫 which is "neko" in japanese and "mao" in chinese.
yet some are spoken very similar like 愛 "ai" ...it´s more or less the same in japanese and chinese (but threre again the modern chinese character has less stroke count it´s 爱^^°)

i hope that explains a little. in general chinese sounds very different and for me it´s a pain to speak and pronounce correctly ^^°

kendoka7
01-10-2007, 10:26 AM
LavaBug pretty much said it all to explain some of the differences between characters in Japanese and Chinese. As far as speaking Chinese, it's the world's most notorious "tonal" language, so pronunciation is never gonna be easy. But it's still a beautiful language to speak.

Anyway, back to Japanese...


Just a question: Is Kanji read identical to the Chinese characters it's based off of? I mean, I knew the two were similar, but when my mother managed to rattle off entire sentences and give a (relatively) close translation to what I knew, I was fairly surprised.

So, if the two aren't read identically, what are the differences?

Kanji in Japanese have two main ways of being read:
音読み (Onyomi reading): the Japanese approximation of the Chinese pronunciation of the original character.

and 訓読み (Kunyomi reading): the reading based on a native Japanese word that closely approximates the meaning of the original Chinese character.

Some characters have multiple kunyomi readings, and some don't have any kunyomi reading at all. For that reason, kanji readings have to be learned on a case by case basis. This can be very frustrating, I know.

The main difference between characters in both languages (Chinese and Japanese) is the way they are used in each language. In Chinese, each character holds to one central idea and does not get modified within a sentence. For this reason, sentence structure in Chinese is much simpler than you might think. In Japanese, however, kanji are often used as stems for verbs, adjectives, and other parts of speech, making kanji much more flexible in sentences.

Rememberance of these ideograms from hell is always tough, but the sad truth is that the only way to really remember them is to use them and practice. For this reason, writing practice is very important in Japanese. They have entire schools in Japan dedicated to calligraphy, for goodness sake!

I'd say. for those struggling with kanji, start with the basics. Do some research and get the list for Grade 1 Kanji. Then, take about 5-8 a week and study each individually. You'll find that as you read more and more, pronunciations come naturally. Far more important, concentrate on memorizing basic stroke orders. I found out quickly that certain shapes will always be drawn the same, no matter what character it is.

That's it for today!
Keeping coming with questions though! I'm glad to help.

Capernicus
01-10-2007, 12:35 PM
Far more important, concentrate on memorizing basic stroke orders. I found out quickly that certain shapes will always be drawn the same, no matter what character it is.

Yes, I did notice this. Which is very convenient when im trying to write 日and 日曜日. You can see, the "日" is included in the "曜" ^_^

kendoka7
01-11-2007, 09:40 AM
Haha, yes, that's a perfect example.

曜 (day of the week) is a particularly difficult character to write, especially with the correct stroke order. With this example, there are 3 different parts to the character; the main radical being 日 (day).

When writing, you would first draw the main radical (4 strokes), then the part in the upper right (6 strokes), and last the part in the lower right (8 strokes).

Even worse is the fact that each stroke in each part of the character is drawn in a certain order. ><

Ryouga
01-11-2007, 03:47 PM
Is it really necacery to follow the stroke order, for sheer reading value? I'm trying to learn Japanese, but I'll I've picked up is the ability to read some common and distint kanji, like Katana and Gen, and some Katakana. Also, how do you get the ability to write Kanji on the computer? Cause the only way I found is putting it in a translater, and copying it.

Capernicus
01-11-2007, 04:01 PM
Is it really necacery to follow the stroke order, for sheer reading value? I'm trying to learn Japanese, but I'll I've picked up is the ability to read some common and distint kanji, like Katana and Gen, and some Katakana. Also, how do you get the ability to write Kanji on the computer? Cause the only way I found is putting it in a translater, and copying it.
Most (if not all) operating systems have a built in international language feature you can activate. I use Windows XP, and I am able to type in Katakana, Hiragana, and Kanji. However, if yours does not, I'm sure you can find a site online from which to download this software.

Ryouga
01-11-2007, 04:21 PM
I have Windows XP. The newest Version. How do you get the language changed? I can't find it.

Akihiko Yamamoto Hozagaki
01-11-2007, 07:11 PM
I agree to a degree. Kanji is pretty difficult, but I find it pretty interesting. Sure, I wish it was just hiragana and katakana, but hey... kanji adds depth to the language. But this is coming from a newbie who is still learning level four x_x;.

kendoka7
01-12-2007, 12:53 AM
Logically, you wouldn't have to worry about stroke order when reading kanji. But in the case of physical writing (whether with pen, brush, or soy sauce), stroke order is very important with Kanji. The reason is because once you learn proper stroke order, you write much faster and much more accurate. Plus, your characters look much better.

As far as how to learn kanji more efficiently, I already posted my tips for that earlier in this thread.

If you want to find out about typing Japanese on the computer, go to this thread where there are some good links and resources:
http://www.animeforum.com/showthread.php?t=51364



I agree to a degree. Kanji is pretty difficult, but I find it pretty interesting. Sure, I wish it was just hiragana and katakana, but hey... kanji adds depth to the language. But this is coming from a newbie who is still learning level four x_x;.

I completely agree with you! Although difficult, you just don't find something as unique as kanji is other languages. It's what makes Japanese a very interprative language. It shows good character when you decide to dedicate youself to something as challenging as studying kanji.

By "level four", I assume you mean Level 4 of the JLPT Kanji list. While I myself prefered to learn kanji in order of school grade, that doesn't necessarily mean you're a newbie. ><
Level 4 does have some difficult kanji. Psh, the fact that you even got far enough in the study of Japanese to start learning kanji is an accomplishment.

Akihiko Yamamoto Hozagaki
01-12-2007, 07:53 PM
I completely agree with you! Although difficult, you just don't find something as unique as kanji is other languages. It's what makes Japanese a very interprative language. It shows good character when you decide to dedicate youself to something as challenging as studying kanji.

By "level four", I assume you mean Level 4 of the JLPT Kanji list. While I myself prefered to learn kanji in order of school grade, that doesn't necessarily mean you're a newbie. ><
Level 4 does have some difficult kanji. Psh, the fact that you even got far enough in the study of Japanese to start learning kanji is an accomplishment.

That is what I mean ^^! I plan on being more active in here once I can learn all four levels ^^;. It is such a challenge to remember them all, but stroke order is pretty simple. Remember the key rules!
+Left to right
+Up to down
+And when there is a square, always the bottom line last

I find kanji very fun to study ^^! And level four does have it's difficulties like 書 and 電... in my opinion ^^;.

kendoka7
01-12-2007, 11:31 PM
That's awesome! I'm glad you enjoy it. But just so you know, learning with the JLPT lists is good and all, but does not always offer the full range of kanji that are actually learned in Japan. The JLPT lists are specifically designed for foreign learners. But, believe me, if you start learning by School Grade level instead, it has its benefits.

Haha! Yea, 電 is a fun little one, isn't it?

If you ever need any help or just wanna talk about learning Japanese, just send me a private message. That goes for anyone else on this forum who might need help!

Daily tip: When it comes to studying kanji, flash cards own!

akiko_kalla
01-13-2007, 01:06 AM
Is it really necacery to follow the stroke order, for sheer reading value? I'm trying to learn Japanese, but I'll I've picked up is the ability to read some common and distint kanji, like Katana and Gen, and some Katakana.

As stated above, it is in writing that stroke order is most important. However I have found that knowing the stroke order sometimes makes written (not typed) Japanese easier to read. It also helps me identify parts of kanji that may help me understand the character I am not familiar with, but it could just be me. ^_^

It's also very important in looking up unfamiliar kanji. For example, 何 has seven strokes; the top and right lines are not connected, but if you don't know that or are unfamiliar with stroke order and types of strokes it may make the word more difficult to find.


Kanji is horrible. @[email protected] Yes you can look them up but what exactly ARE you looking for when you try to find their meaning? Confusing....I forget Kanji that is not basic (like 私) within a few hours. T.T I maybe have about....90 memorized. *sighs*


Japanese dictionaries can be tricky when you first start using them. :p Knowing the radical helps not just with looking it up but with meaning sometimes, but of course it helps to know the number of strokes in the character when looking it up too. Otherwise it can be like looking for a needle in a haystack. As for the meanings I think time and experience in the language help the most with that. Context clues can be difficult to decode if you haven't had the time and experience in the language to fully understand them.



I agree to a degree. Kanji is pretty difficult, but I find it pretty interesting. Sure, I wish it was just hiragana and katakana, but hey... kanji adds depth to the language. But this is coming from a newbie who is still learning level four x_x;.

I agree, kanji is difficult. It's difficult for natives of Japan much less a non-native. Memory is especially a problem. However if you just had hiragana and katakana it would quickly become difficult to decipher meaning from reading. The syllables themselves are just sounds and many words have the same sound. For example, hana can mean flower or nose depending on your inflection and the kanji. You would probably figure that out from context clues in the texts but if you have several such words it easily becomes frustrating to read. Especially since there is often little spacing. If you don't know what you are reading already it's difficult to discern where one word stops and the next begins.

What I have found is that the more I study kanji the more I begin to think in kanji. The character will present itself when I hear it spoken and sometimes I find myself tracing them over in the air as I think about them. (Of course maybe I'm just weird...) Personally it's easier for me to think in kanji than hiragana/katakana because kanji carries the meaning. I unfortunately do not know as much kanji as I would like. Knowing any of this doesn't make it any easier to learn and remember however. ^_~

LavaBug
01-13-2007, 05:55 AM
stroke order is ok...but when drawing certain a kanji ignoring the stroke order sometimes makes it easier to draw, especially when you need to draw them fast ^^&#176; (but when you start learning NEVER do that)
i personally am far too lazy and unorganised to use cards for learning...i don&#180;t bother buying them, drawing kanji on them write the meaning on the back etc..and then end up having my room full of 1945 cards i never use or look at (again) ^^&#176;
but constant learning/refreshing is important...during the last 4 months i must have forgotten more than just 200

MistressPookyChan
01-13-2007, 09:57 AM
Stroke order is important and all, but I think that radicals are more important. When you know the meaning of the radicals, you can get a general meaning for the kanji. For example, you can know if it is something having to do with water, or that it is a bird, or a fish.

Akihiko Yamamoto Hozagaki
01-13-2007, 12:18 PM
Stroke order is important and all, but I think that radicals are more important. When you know the meaning of the radicals, you can get a general meaning for the kanji. For example, you can know if it is something having to do with water, or that it is a bird, or a fish.

I find that to help me a lot, too. When I write in pencil, I'm not too concerned about stroke order, but when I write with a calligraphy brush, I am.
When I first started learning Japanese, I thought that learning romaji would just be fine. Until I read a couple articles and realized that learning kanji would help me even more. I was intimidated when I read about there being 50,000 kanji, but then was relieved when I saw that I could read a newspaper with just 2,000 XD!

LavaBug
01-14-2007, 12:54 PM
i tried a calligraphycourse once...it aggravated me so much i never went there again (and people see it as a relaxing activity...meh! it&#180;s really discouraging when you learn and write kanji for more than 2 years and end up not being able to draw a single horzontal line the way the teacher wants it while all drewn kanji look cool)

Akihiko Yamamoto Hozagaki
01-14-2007, 01:38 PM
i tried a calligraphycourse once...it aggravated me so much i never went there again (and people see it as a relaxing activity...meh! its really discouraging when you learn and write kanji for more than 2 years and end up not being able to draw a single horzontal line the way the teacher wants it while all drewn kanji look cool)

I do agree, but after a while, I got used to it ^^;. It's just a bit of a hassle to hold the dang thing XD! I still prefer a pencil, though. I'm not used to constantly dipping the brush into the ink after every stroke. My friends help me, and they're nicer than a teacher XD!

LavaBug
01-14-2007, 01:47 PM
well the teacher was nice, but i&#180;m maybe not the "sit still and draw a line for 1 1/2 hours" type ^^&#176;

Akihiko Yamamoto Hozagaki
01-14-2007, 01:52 PM
well the teacher was nice, but im maybe not the "sit still and draw a line for 1 1/2 hours" type ^^

I see. That can get a bit frustrating after a while. Besides, I don't think people really use brushes anymore XD!

LavaBug
01-14-2007, 01:56 PM
drawing with a brush is fun...making even my bad handwriting look awesome^^

charizardpal
01-14-2007, 09:41 PM
I'd like to try a calligraphy class. Although I have heard that such classes are difficult, such ancient past-times do posses an aesthetic value. Meaning that these arts allow a jocular guy to show off. It's a shame that my current school does not offer these classes or a class for learning the chinese radicals. My school does have classes on Anime and manga translation. (In fact, to the best of my knowledge my school is the only school offering those, at least in my area.)

conformiste
01-17-2007, 10:17 AM
Well, i find that one good way to start learning Kanji is to look at them as pictograms. For example, "川 -> kawa, which means river. With a bit of imagination, it really looks like a small stream, doesn't it? :} Of course, this becomes more difficult with the more complicated Kanji. And it doesn't really help you remember how to say it, either... But it's a start (^_^) and as MistressPookyChan said:


Stroke order is important and all, but I think that radicals are more important. When you know the meaning of the radicals, you can get a general meaning for the kanji. For example, you can know if it is something having to do with water, or that it is a bird, or a fish.

:)

kendoka7
01-17-2007, 05:13 PM
I agree! When you first start learning the simpler kanji, it is definitly useful to see them as pictogram (even though they are technically ideograms). Still, I'd always prefer radicals!

MistressPookyChan
01-17-2007, 08:51 PM
There is a book that teaches kanji using pictograms, but I don't know anyone that has gone over the 200 kanji hump. After that, they don't really look like pics. So, when you're starting out it may be helpful, but you may need to discover other learning styles after awhile.

LavaBug
01-19-2007, 05:12 AM
from a certain point on it&#180;s just craming...

kendoka7
01-19-2007, 12:27 PM
There is a book that teaches kanji using pictograms, but I don't know anyone that has gone over the 200 kanji hump. After that, they don't really look like pics. So, when you're starting out it may be helpful, but you may need to discover other learning styles after awhile.

You're completely right! Usually somewhere around the beginning of Grade 3 (if you study by school grade), it becomes much more important to really know the different radicals and what they mean.

For example:
磯 seashore, beach
This kanji looks like 17 strokes of pure hell! But once you learn to break it apart in your head and analyze the different parts, it becomes so much easier.
The two radicals here are
石 & 幾
The first (石) means "stone" or "rock". The second (幾) means "a certain number or quantity". Put them together, and with a little abstract thinking you get "there are a certain number of rocks and stones". This would obviously refer to the rocky shores of Japan's coast. Therefore, you can remember that the kanji means "seashore or beach".

What does everyone think about this advanced approach? Reasonable, insane, etc...

小美ドクロchan
01-19-2007, 01:39 PM
Kanji is SEXY!!! :laugh:

...no sorry, I'm weird...it's because I hang around nothing but weird people all the time...:rolleyes:

I learn a lot of kanji from reading raw manga and then I look up said kanji in a Japanese Word Processor. <---very useful. GET ONE! They're free.=D


What does everyone think about this advanced approach? Reasonable, insane, etc...

It's good, it's good. *nod nod* Kinda like how my sensei taught us.「好」means "love" or "like" because it consists of 「女」 "woman" and 「子」 "child" because everyone loves women and children etc. xD

Sore ni...

I can remember the kanji for 朝 (morning) because the 日(sun) and the 月(moon) and the 十 stars are out at the same time...^^
(十 is not the kanji for star but if you use your imagination, it looks like a twinkling star so....*shrug* Get eet?

kendoka7
01-19-2007, 02:07 PM
The way I'd remember is 好 is "all mothers love their children", but any way you can find to remember a certain kanji is good. In essence, you make a connection or association between the radicals in the kanji.

conformiste
01-20-2007, 11:23 AM
Hey! Maybe people familiar with Kanji could post new words every day for people in this forum to learn ^_^;; complete with how to pronounce it, what it means and how to construct it using the various radicals (if applicable). That way even the posters themselves get to practice!

Akihiko Yamamoto Hozagaki
01-20-2007, 11:53 AM
Hey! Maybe people familiar with Kanji could post new words every day for people in this forum to learn ^_^;; complete with how to pronounce it, what it means and how to construct it using the various radicals (if applicable). That way even the posters themselves get to practice!

Hm... it's not up to me, but to the mods. Though, it does sound like a good idea. I wouldn't be too helpful (since I only the first 80), but it would refresh my memory, and help me learn more =D. Hmm... we'll see, like I said, I'm not in charge ^^;.

LavaBug
01-20-2007, 04:48 PM
some kanji are quite understandable or at least suggestive...by just reading them by radicals like 嬲る(naburu - to pick on someone...also possible with the radicals reversed, but not common) or 凄い(sugoi...ice + wife = scary ^^&#176;)...

miarori_satins_rose
01-20-2007, 05:07 PM
Kanji....what can I say about kanji.
:samurai:
Probably the most frustrating thing for those of us learning Japanese as a foreign language is kanji. Kanji are both amazing and depressing at times. Bottom line, learning kanji is a life-long endeavor for most of us.

What does everyone think? Comments/questions about kanji......:curses:
ive studied kanji for two years and im better than my teacher who is japanese:angry1: :banana: :samurai: :flaming: :flame: :python::slurp:

MistressPookyChan
01-21-2007, 09:32 AM
I was going to do a sort of bi-weekly lesson but been trying to judge people's abilities. Perhaps I will do intermediate. No worries; kanji WILL be on there (because I'm just that geeky).

Akihiko Yamamoto Hozagaki
01-21-2007, 01:00 PM
I was going to do a sort of bi-weekly lesson but been trying to judge people's abilities. Perhaps I will do intermediate. No worries; kanji WILL be on there (because I'm just that geeky).

Oh it's not geeky XD! It's a good idea. Well, I know it'll be for me x_x. As I plan on actually posting in Japanese for once here ^^;. Unfortunately for me right now, I only know romaji *is shotted*.

Meia_Gisborn
01-22-2007, 04:22 AM
i would say kanji is easy, coz kanji is chinese character n i'm chn XD

Meia_Gisborn
01-22-2007, 04:28 AM
You're completely right! Usually somewhere around the beginning of Grade 3 (if you study by school grade), it becomes much more important to really know the different radicals and what they mean.

For example:
磯 seashore, beach
This kanji looks like 17 strokes of pure hell! But once you learn to break it apart in your head and analyze the different parts, it becomes so much easier.
The two radicals here are
石 & 幾
The first (石) means "stone" or "rock". The second (幾) means "a certain number or quantity". Put them together, and with a little abstract thinking you get "there are a certain number of rocks and stones". This would obviously refer to the rocky shores of Japan's coast. Therefore, you can remember that the kanji means "seashore or beach".

What does everyone think about this advanced approach? Reasonable, insane, etc...

wow, nice explanations!! r u a chn or pure amarican? o.O?

conformiste
01-22-2007, 09:23 AM
I was going to do a sort of bi-weekly lesson but been trying to judge people's abilities. Perhaps I will do intermediate. No worries; kanji WILL be on there (because I'm just that geeky).

*agrees with pengin-san*
It isn't geeky! :D
We would definitely appreciate it. For reference though (since you said you were trying to judge people's abilities) i'm currently JLPT 3 :<

@Meia_Gisborn:
I'm chinese too :| but i'm from Singapore. Are you? Or are you a mainlander, or something XD
It certainly helps to understand the meanings, but the pronunciation's different. And sometimes i end up writing fan2 ti3 in chinese lessons too... @[email protected]

Anagoth9
01-24-2007, 12:55 AM
I've only taken two years of Japanese in college but for the most part kanji isn't that difficult. To understand at least. To remember all the readings though, yeah, that's pretty hard. Once you start to really look at them as pictographs and learn to identify common parts, then they get pretty easy to figure out. The kanji for rest is a guy next to a tree. That's easy enough. The kanji for ocean is a little water symbol next to the kanji for every.
A good place I've found for learning kanji online is www.kanjisite.com
They also teach hiragana and katakana.

MazzieEowyn
01-24-2007, 09:16 AM
Heya, I'm new here and I was wondering... I've been learning Japanese at university and I'd like to learn kanji. I was thinking of starting to learn kanji properly instead of looking them up, and I see there's a few knowledgeable people on the subject here, so I'd be really grateful if you could clear up a few of my problems :)

1. Is the best way to start the jouyou system (the levels)?
2. When I'm learning case-by-case, what do I need to know about a character, aside from what it looks like, how it's pronounced and what it means?
3. Where can I find a list of the 2000 daily-use kanji?
4. Is there any program out there which lets you draw in a character for immediate recognition?

Akihiko Yamamoto Hozagaki
01-24-2007, 09:40 AM
Heya, I'm new here and I was wondering... I've been learning Japanese at university and I'd like to learn kanji. I was thinking of starting to learn kanji properly instead of looking them up, and I see there's a few knowledgeable people on the subject here, so I'd be really grateful if you could clear up a few of my problems :)

1. Is the best way to start the jouyou system (the levels)?
2. When I'm learning case-by-case, what do I need to know about a character, aside from what it looks like, how it's pronounced and what it means?
3. Where can I find a list of the 2000 daily-use kanji?
4. Is there any program out there which lets you draw in a character for immediate recognition?

1. I personally think so, but you can also learn by grade ^^!
2. Stroke-order. Sometimes you can get away with stroke with really simple kanji like 一, 二, and 三... but that's to be expected XD!
3. Here (http://learnjapanese.elanguageschool.net/course/view.php?id=13)
4. What do you mean by that o.o?

zerog
01-24-2007, 11:35 AM
I don't think Kanji is that hard to learn if you put your mind to it, well for me I only learned Hiragana and even that was hard for me, I guess when it comes down to it, Learning that language is easier than learning the Japanese Alphabet I actually took a Japanese Class and it was fun to learn all the new words and my teacher was really nice... I'll miss that class because it was so fun although I never learned much of the alphabet it was fun just to learn a new language and plus Japan has always interested me... I want to go there someday in japan...

MazzieEowyn
01-25-2007, 10:09 AM
XD Thank you for answering!

Well, I once saw a program on someone else's laptop - you drew in the character with your mouse in this little window, and it popped up the matching character in text form. I thought it was so clever and time-saving I thought... where can I get me one of those? Because when I try to translate things, it's finding the kanji in unicode that takes me ages.

:) Actually, my memory's pretty much saturated with all the subtitled anime I've watched for five years, so I already had a sense for how the language *should* sound. So when I started Japanese in October last year and actually set my mind to learning the hiragana, I managed pretty quickly. I don't know how or why. I kinda treat it as one of those code games I liked when I was a kid. Katakana is much harder for me to remember though.

Japanese class is fun :) Our teacher, I think, is a Japanese student on one of those programs I'm considering going on where you travel to another country to teach your language. He's also a bit scatterbrained which is kinda funny... he starts talking in Japanese (did this from first lesson, actually) and we're looking at him going 'eh?' then he says, 'daijobu?' XD And everyone just nods, because what else can you do?

He also once asked me what anime I liked in a lesson when I'd gotten excited over the word 'persocon'. XD Of course, it's obvious why, but I don't think he's heard of Chobits, so it was funny (and embarrassing) trying to explain to him. I stuck one of my song translations into my Japanese portfolio, and bearing in mind we're not really expected to know hiragana yet - never mind kanji - I'm hoping it'll give me a good mark XD

Did you do oral exams as part of your course?

MistressPookyChan
01-27-2007, 09:18 AM
Mazzie:

the kanji drawing thing is with IME. Press the icon with the magnify glass and paint brush and then the top option (手書き).

If you want to know more about those programs "where you travel to another country and teach your language", let me know. I was on JET for 2 years.

I ALWAYS had oral exams. They were difficult, but essential. I've seen too many people that can read and write a language but can't speak it.

Keithsnyder
01-27-2007, 09:39 AM
well what u say just is true. for me there isnt anyone that can speak japanese with me so i ended up talking to myself alot in japanese and yes i know it sound weird but it's true.:p

MistressPookyChan
01-27-2007, 10:12 AM
well what u say just is true. for me there isnt anyone that can speak japanese with me so i ended up talking to myself alot in japanese and yes i know it sound weird but it's true.:p

Actually, that's not weird at all! I recommend to all my students that they should speak to themselves. As you get ready in the morning, say aloud what you are doing. Everything from "taking a shower" to "putting on a shirt", when said in a foreign language, can be great practice! But this thread is about kanji, so please keep it there.

Another idea would be to post-it note kanji on everything. For example, put 電話 on the phone.

LavaBug
01-28-2007, 06:03 PM
Another idea would be to post-it note kanji on everything. For example, put 電話 on the phone.

lol, that&#180;s exactly what my chinese teacher is telling us...
(but, since i hate flash cards and notes and thus never did it, it can be useful i&#180;m sure ^^&#176;)

Galaktika Evrika
01-29-2007, 02:07 PM
大切なものは目に見えないんだよ。^^; Without 漢字, reading 日本語 would be annoying. 失礼なことを言うつもりはないのですがそれはさほど理解し難いことではない。とにかく練習をしなよ。=^ ___^= どう思う?

MazzieEowyn
01-29-2007, 04:48 PM
O.O プーキさん、ありがとうございます!
I am so dumb... I've been using that language bar for months and never noticed the IME pad. Thank you for pointing it out to me, although I think I'll need some practice getting the strokes right.

Also - I was thinking about going on the JET scheme... though I'm still considering it. I'm still a bit nervous about doing something like that, for a few reasons... I'd welcome it if you could tell me about your experiences. My e-mail's [email protected] if you'd like to mail me :)

Akihiko Yamamoto Hozagaki
01-30-2007, 06:37 PM
While were on the subject of the matter, I'd like to know the "difference" between katakana and hiragana. I mean, I understand katakana is the Chinese reading... but do we use it in the same sentence with hiragana characters, and when do we use it?

conformiste
01-31-2007, 08:35 AM
I don't know what you mean by chinese reading, but it's basically the same as hiragana except for the symbol and context. That is, they have an entire set of katakana that corresponds directly to the set of hiragana: for example 'ma' is in ま hiragana and マ in katakana. Same pronunciation, different symbol.

They're also used in different contexts: hiragana is used for original Japanese words and grammar while katakana is only used for foreign words that (mostly) don't have a Japanese counterpart (there are exceptions.) For example, the word 'tennis', which is pronounced 'tenisu' in japanese and written in katakana because it is a foreign concept. The word 'soba' (a kind of noodle) is a Japanese food, and so is written in hiragana. Most times though, Japanese things have names in kanji (chinese characters) and in that case you use those ^_^.

And yes, you can use them in the same sentence.

...and i realised something. Perhaps, by 'chinese reading' you mean Kanji and not katakana? (Which would make sense, seeing as this is a kanji thread after all.)

-feels dumb- ._.

Akihiko Yamamoto Hozagaki
01-31-2007, 11:19 AM
I don't know what you mean by chinese reading, but it's basically the same as hiragana except for the symbol and context. That is, they have an entire set of katakana that corresponds directly to the set of hiragana: for example 'ma' is in ま hiragana and マ in katakana. Same pronunciation, different symbol.

I know what katakana is, silly XD!

Well... maybe I do mean kanji XD! Though I must've forgotten, because what you just said reminded me of something a book said a while back o.o.

akiko_kalla
01-31-2007, 08:18 PM
I know what katakana is, silly XD!

Well... maybe I do mean kanji XD! Though I must've forgotten, because what you just said reminded me of something a book said a while back o.o.


Are you referring to the kun vs. on readings for kanji? If so typically the kun (hiragana reading) is used if the kanji is by itself and while the on reading is used for certain combinations of kanji. (Like 山 yama vs. san) However there are many exceptions so you do have to have an idea what the word is. From what my teacher has said part of the kanji combination will carry the pronunciation while the other the meaning, so perhaps it is most useful to know in those cases. Of course I could be misunderstanding something too. :P

Mokuren
02-04-2007, 11:30 PM
Explanation: I'm just really excited that something this easy is workin'. Ignore the overenthusiasm.

First off, for kanji learning and reference you can't beat this book (http://www.amazon.com/Kanji-Kana-Handbook-Japanese-Language/dp/0804820775).
Armed with that, a great Japanese dictionary, and also this book on verbs (http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Glance-Kodanshas-Childrens-Classics/dp/4770027656/sr=1-1/qid=1170649222/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-7875990-1066412?ie=UTF8&s=books), you will be completely prepared...

...NO! Not to start learning a few kanji in order from your handbook, day after day, trudging through, writing and rewriting, and wondering if you'll ever get it. You are absolutely prepared...to buy a couple of manga from your favorite writer/artist in the original Japanese, grab on to your Nintendo DS (no, no, never mind if you don't have one...you can get one eventually, right? Save $10 a day for ten days and you own one), and set the language to Japanese. Every time you hit a phrase or kanji you don't know, look it up in the books; if this fails, google it; failing this, animeforum.com! Write the new info down in a notebook and review it at the end of the day.
You'd be surprised how quickly you pick up kanji this way and the INCREDIBLE amount more interesting they seem. It's the next best thing to learning by being forced to decipher actual spoken language in Japan.

PS I recommend Animal Crossing for the DS; the slow movement of the game and large amount of simple speech make it ideal for translation.

Mokuren
02-05-2007, 01:10 AM
http://www.animeforum.com/images/icons/icon1.gif Super-Fun Ways to Learn Kanji & Japanese
Explanation: I'm just really excited that something this easy is workin'. Ignore the overenthusiasm.

And: The first step to learning Japanese is always to get down the few basic phrases listed EVERYWHERE like ohayou, hajimemashite, gomenasai, etc., along with basic verb conjugation. The hiragana and katakana are also essential. (This site (http://www.realkana.com/) is AWESOME for that.) After THAT though...

First off, for kanji learning and reference you can't beat this book (http://www.amazon.com/Kanji-Kana-Handbook-Japanese-Language/dp/0804820775).
Armed with that, a great Japanese dictionary, and also this book on verbs (http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Glance-Kodanshas-Childrens-Classics/dp/4770027656/sr=1-1/qid=1170649222/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-7875990-1066412?ie=UTF8&s=books), you will be completely prepared...

...NO! Not to start learning a few kanji in order from your handbook, day after day, trudging through, writing and rewriting, and wondering if you'll ever get it. You are absolutely prepared...to buy a couple of manga from your favorite writer/artist in the original Japanese, grab on to your Nintendo DS (no, no, never mind if you don't have one...you can get one eventually, right? Save $10 a day for ten days and you own one), and set the language to Japanese. Every time you hit a phrase or kanji you don't know, look it up in the books; if this fails, google it; failing this, animeforum.com! Write the new info down in a notebook and review it at the end of the day.
You'd be surprised how quickly you pick up kanji this way and the INCREDIBLE amount more interesting they seem. It's the next best thing to learning by being forced to decipher actual spoken language in Japan.

royal_ken
02-11-2007, 07:18 PM
I'm Japanese myself but I'm constantly learning new kanji. There's just so much variety. I've heard that you'd need to know at least 1000 different kanji to be able to read a Japanese newspaper fairly well. Meh, I still struggle reading the newspaper.

Either way, the useful thing about having kanji is that similar shaped kanji tend to have similar meanings, so you can manage to have a vague understanding of what it could mean even if you've never seen that particular kanji before. I always have fun when I go to places like Hong Kong because Chinese is written everywhere but I could always vaguely understand what they're referring to hehe

Kanji can also keep sentences compact and shorter.
A word like "higuma" (brown bear) can be compacted into one 「羆」

It'll definitely be useful to learn kanji (you'd need to know it to read in Japan anyway lol)

Keithsnyder
02-12-2007, 05:36 AM
ya i agree but sometimes even though they look similar they have a totally different meaning :( .I think that's why sometimes one would find himself having birds on top of his head while reading kanji:p .