View Full Version : Swordsman training
Overlord Darth Fluffles
08-21-2006, 09:28 AM
I dont wanna sound like an absolute nerd who has no life, but does anyone else here train with Swordsmanship?..Tetsu, i alrdy know about u.
Aeria
08-21-2006, 11:51 AM
I do. I use two short swords.
DarkMoonPrince
08-21-2006, 12:41 PM
I train with A Two Handed Sword, I just love how sharp they are.
Aeria
08-21-2006, 01:13 PM
Is it a broadsword, or a claymore?
KidHeart
08-21-2006, 01:30 PM
Ya guys actually train with sharp swords?! Careful not to think your the best cuz you can cut yourself, and thats not very cool. I weightlift so I can lift a celtic sword easily. Thier VERY heavy, at least the real ones.
Aeria
08-21-2006, 01:42 PM
That's the reason i use short swords. I have the agility to use them, and can easily break past an opponent using a large sword's guard.
KidHeart
08-21-2006, 01:57 PM
So your agile? I know some people who are the same too. I'm not very agile, but I'm fast(not my feet), there is a difference. I stand around for a moment watching. So, you seem like a good swordsman, or woman. Whats the combined weight of your swords? I'd like to wield a 80-90 pound steel like a feather one day.
Aeria
08-21-2006, 02:02 PM
I don't know their weight. One is a little longer than the other, though. Most of the weight is in the hilts, which i find makes it a lot easier to fight with.
XSelymSivadX
08-21-2006, 05:15 PM
I train with Long swords. my favorite is the Flamberge. its the longest and sharpest.
I took training for about 2 or 3 weeks. I quit case, well, it was more education form the past. We had to read and study the book of five rings. It was an interesting book tho. Any swordsman hould read ti. Infact, that book changed me. Anyway, I trained with a boken. I was agile fast. So I did enjoy it. Most of the things wee no problem. After all, I did take karate for 4 or 3 years when I lived in new york. And belive me, it wasn't a normal class. One hour, sometimes two hours. In fact, we maid it in the news papers. It was hard. Once, my intire body hert so bad that I couldn't walk for a week or so. I do miss dos days tho.
Cless Alvein
08-22-2006, 12:36 AM
Whats the combined weight of your swords? I'd like to wield a 80-90 pound steel like a feather one day.
Are you kidding me? I hope you're exaggerating.
"Medieval swords in general were well-made, light, agile fighting weapons equally capable of delivering dismembering cuts or cleaving deep cavities into the body. They were far from the clumsy, heavy things they're often portrayed as in popular media and far, far more than a mere "club with edges." As another source on arms affirmed: "the sword was, in fact, surprisingly light·.the average weight of swords from the 10th to the 15th centuries was 1.3 kg [~3lbs.], while in the 16th century it was 0.9 kg [~2lbs.]. Even the heavier bastard swords which were used only by second-grade fighting men did not exceed 1.6 kg [~3.5lbs.], while the horse swords known as 'hand-and-a-half' swords weighed 1.8 kg [~4 lbs.] on average. When due allowances are made, these surprisingly low figures also hold good for the enormous two-hand sword, which was traditionally only wielded by 'true Hercules.' Yet it seldom weighed more than 3 kg [~6.5lbs]." (Funcken, Arms, Part 3, p. 26).
Starting in the 16th century there were of course special parade or bearing swords that did weigh up to 8 or 9 pounds and more, however these monstrous show pieces were not fighting weapons and there is no evidence they were ever intended for use in any type of combat. Indeed, it would not make sense given that there were other far more maneuverable combat models available which were several pounds lighter."
http://www.thearma.org/essays/weights.htm
Personally I play around with a bokken a bit, but don't take any formal classes and have put off starting my real collection and possible training for after I get out of the military and settle down somewhere more permanently.
Tetsanosuke
08-22-2006, 01:01 AM
Yeah Sever you know I train... I teach you... yeah go figure.
Anywho, I've been reading Musashi's book of five rings and I'm on book two: water. He tells you that, like in my friend Sever's Sig "There is no 'perfection' in swordsmanship, only 'perfecting'." and "So if you think you are perfect, you will undoubtedly fall before your well trained opponent."
As Sever knows, I train with my bokken, two whenever I have two. I also train by dual weilding my hunter's sword and ninja style blade (Though they work, in terms of well made swords, they are crap) I'm attempting to learn the "Niten Ichi Ryu" or "Two heavens as one" style created and perfected by Miyamoto Musashi, who if I'm not mistaken, was the greatest swordsmen in our history.
So my passion for swordsmenship is evident.... Keep training Sever and maybe your overcome me someday. (Yes we know each other in real life.... ^^)
Aeria
08-22-2006, 04:20 AM
I don't have a set style really. I just practice a lot, and try my best. I've gotten pretty good, i think, because where i am, there are quite a lot of people who do it, and i've won against most of them.
Fester
08-22-2006, 05:33 AM
I practised Kendo and Iaido for 3 years before I moved house last year, I have also read The Book of Five Rings infact I always carry it with me in my rucksack.
Locke
Aeria
08-22-2006, 05:42 AM
This Book of Five Rings... what exactly is it?
aimforthetop
08-22-2006, 06:03 AM
So which of you actually train with swords and which of you are lying
Aeria
08-22-2006, 06:06 AM
I do. How about yourself?
Sammael
08-22-2006, 08:40 AM
This Book of Five Rings... what exactly is it?its written by the best samurai in Japan-Musashi. The book covers 5 elements-Water, Fire , Wind and I forgot the other 2(its been too long since I read that book). These 5 elements reflect on our personality(Correct me if I'm wrong)
I used to train with wooden Katana with my cuz...damn his reflects are fast but I hav more vitality than him(He injures really easily)
Zoma the Forsaken
08-22-2006, 09:05 AM
My brother does....he uses my celtic sword and a kris dagger
Overlord Darth Fluffles
08-22-2006, 09:06 AM
Yeah Sever you know I train... I teach you... yeah go figure.
Anywho, I've been reading Musashi's book of five rings and I'm on book two: water. He tells you that, like in my friend Sever's Sig "There is no 'perfection' in swordsmanship, only 'perfecting'." and "So if you think you are perfect, you will undoubtedly fall before your well trained opponent."
As Sever knows, I train with my bokken, two whenever I have two. I also train by dual weilding my hunter's sword and ninja style blade (Though they work, in terms of well made swords, they are crap) I'm attempting to learn the "Niten Ichi Ryu" or "Two heavens as one" style created and perfected by Miyamoto Musashi, who if I'm not mistaken, was the greatest swordsmen in our history.
So my passion for swordsmenship is evident.... Keep training Sever and maybe your overcome me someday. (Yes we know each other in real life.... ^^)
ummm where did u get that book again....i can really use it. Cause i forgot 2 of the 5 ways to enter in on your opponent...hehehe, and me overcoming you? lol that will be the day.
Kaitou Ace
08-22-2006, 12:17 PM
Ah, swords...
I've done a bit over a year of iaido, and currently I have three swords, one of which is an iaito, in other words a sword with a zinc-aluminum alloy blade, that cannot be sharpened. The other two are hand-forged carbon steel affairs, which I use for cutting practice (the main workhorse for that is a paul chen/hanwei tokugawa katana)
And as Lance said, no one, east or west used a sword that heavy. No matter how strong you are, something that size will have too much momentum for you to correct yourself in case you should miss, or if your opponent steps out of the way, in which case you are very vulnerable. Historical swords that were made for combat are between 2 and 8lb in weight, and that is including even the largest of the two handed blades.
You really shouldn't be training in sword-work by yourself, and certainly you should never, ever, ever, ever try to swing a non real or a non training sword. Most of the swords that people have or buy nowadays are 220 or 440 stainless steel affairs, with rat-tail tangs, if any at all, and with such weak support in the handle, a strong swing can make the blade a projectile, which is extremely dangerous.
Even with a proper tang, 220 and 440 stainless steel is prone to breaking or shattering if it hits an object. Unlike proper sword steel, even a small flaw in the steel, combined with a slightly improper (or even fully proper) strike angel, can cause the stainless steel blade to shatter into many pieces, becoming effectively shrapnel. People have been badly hurt, and even killed by playing with these sword-like-objects.
As a basic rule of thumb if you paid under $200 for your sword, chances are it is a display piece, not meant for actual training or combat, and can prove more dangerous to you, and those around you then an actual sword would.
Bokken, shinai and suburito are great practice tools, I work with and own one of each (A bokken is a standard wooden sword, a shinai is a bamboo sword, and a suburito is an extra heavy bokken made to improve your swing.)
The book of five rings, and other similar style books are very good at helping you understand the philosophy of sword fighting, but they will not actually teach you any technique. If you want to learn, look for an iaido school near you that can trace itself back to Japan, and do the same for European sword schools. Any martial arts school worth its salt can be traced back to the fighting styles' country of origin.
Tetsanosuke
08-22-2006, 06:29 PM
The book of five rings Sever? Go to a book store and ask the people there. As for that "say you speak of.... it may come... don't doubt yourself my friend.
I'd love to go to a school for swordsmenship, but Michigan offers none....
And about the sword weights, The average katana weighs between 3-5 if not, six pounds.
And the explination for "What the book of five rings is":
Written by Miyamoto Musashi, the greatest swordsmen that ever existed (At least by history) the book of five rings is a book that describes :
Tactics in war.
Finer points of the Niten Ichi Ryu.
The basics of the "Spirit of the thing" (As Musashi repeats a lot)
Comparing The Niten Ichi Ryu with other sword styles (Like the Shinkage Ryu)
How to weild the long sword (Katana) with the short sword (Kodachi)
The book is divided into 5 elements: Earth, Water, Fire, Wind,
and No-thing-ness as Musashi describes it. Every time you read the book, you will find several different meanings to his words, and will most definatly learn something new or different. I suggest that any swordsman or woman worth his/her mettle should read this book, and carefully.
But as for training tools, If you are planning to play Kendo (And I say "play" because it's a sport) go with the Shinai. If you want to learn Kenjutsu (A way of fighting with swords for actual combat) then use the Bokken or the suburito. (I need a Suburito....)
Señor Nobody
08-22-2006, 06:37 PM
I have a bokken and a claymore, but just to exercise. I have no real style since I have no real desire to fight. I'd be easily defeated by any of you in at least twenty seconds.
Zanethose
08-22-2006, 06:53 PM
I train myself...started in basic stances and the such and then started some basic techniques....i am not that good nor have i done alot, i havent read any books either (cant afford to buy any XD) but yes...i do train >.> got meself a nice Bakken, a short sword and a tanto (decorative...unfortunately :'( )
Faceless111
08-22-2006, 07:16 PM
The only training I did was the basics with shinai, bamboo swords. Really, I prefer hands-on TKD.
raycom1
08-22-2006, 07:32 PM
i love swords, any sword i can find i'll practice with, im pretty good
KidHeart
08-23-2006, 09:19 AM
And as Lance said, no one, east or west used a sword that heavy. No matter how strong you are, something that size will have too much momentum for you to correct yourself in case you should miss, or if your opponent steps out of the way, in which case you are very vulnerable. Historical swords that were made for combat are between 2 and 8lb in weight, and that is including even the largest of the two handed blades.
You really shouldn't be training in sword-work by yourself, and certainly you should never, ever, ever, ever try to swing a non real or a non training sword. Most of the swords that people have or buy nowadays are 220 or 440 stainless steel affairs, with rat-tail tangs, if any at all, and with such weak support in the handle, a strong swing can make the blade a projectile, which is extremely dangerous.
I said lift it, not use it. I practice with a 10 pound steel. I wish I can show a master swordsman what kind of momentum I have. Yup, weak handle supports can loose the blade sending it flying. Better make sure no one gets hurt or your in big trouble.
Kaitou Ace
08-23-2006, 09:58 AM
Even 10lb is close to being too heavy. and what do you mean about momentum? The more of it you have the worse it is for you if you don't hit. And you won't always hit. What kind of sword is it, and who made it? I am rather curious.
KidHeart
08-26-2006, 02:16 AM
Ten pounds is light dude. Seriously. I use a blunted sword that belongs to my brother. He does not know what type it is, so it's no second guess that I for sure don't know either. Hmm, you must be the guy that leads this site since your name is familiar. Its an honor.
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