'Just cause' Is NOT an answer! (re-do)

[Vendetta]

This is an agruement I had with my grandmother about, 'Just cause' being an answer.
I was in the car and asked her why I had to do something, She simply replied, "Because I said so." I said, that's not an answer. She sai, "Oh well, It's good enough." I continued, "That IS NOT an answer, according to you, 'Just cause' and 'cause I said so' do not qualify to be an answer." She said back, "I AM the ADULT here, and you go by MY rules." I told her, "You know how on the news, they always say the child is like the parent? Well, I am like you, I don't and won't take that for an answer." I am not going to do something supid, if she doesn't justify why I am told to do it. I am like that and will always be. But, she continues to not tell me why, And I know... She HAS no reason why... Nothing that can be a reason. So, I continue to dis-obey unless she finds one.

Oops... posted this in fan fic.. It was going to be a poem... Sorry!

[Gjallarhorn]

Well, generally adults will speak from experience or from knowledge they have gained. Just because they do not feel like explaining a reason, that does not mean that they do not have a reason.
I also do not believe it is wise to disobey your grandmother because she states no reason. That just seems both arrogant and very angsty on your part. Sometimes you just have to respect your elders and do what they say. Remember, they are your elders. They have lived a lot longer and, for the most part, have learned a lot more than you have thus far.

[Vendetta]

Well, I would say that, But not when I am with her 24/7.. If she answered one quesion, I would be happy, Why does she hate my mother? If there was a good reason for hating her, than I wouldn't disobey, But she is nothing like my mother, complete oposites, and... this is sad to say, But I hate my grandmother...

[Eris]

It is an answer, but it's also a sign of inferior argumentation skills.

[Princess Minako]

or its a reason that you don't really need to know. There are somethings in this world that you don't get to know and that is life. If her wishes are to keep the true meaning to herself or between her and another person it is your duty to respect that wish, because she is that from whence you came.

[Kishiro]

While respecting your grandmother and elders is important, to keep in mind, I do commend you on questioning something that goes agasint your own constitution.

Just remember though, she is your granny, and things between you and her are going to be different than they would be between you and a younger parent, that might give at your questioning.

I was bothered when I was growing up by the "because I am the adult" and the "because I said so" thing as well. I'm sure we all were. I highly doubt that those answers were good enough for any of us, I know they weren't for me, and I see my little sister struggling with it, now that she is 16 and wanting more freedom like I had at that age.

It is a stupid line and excuse really. For whatever reasons and situations it is used in. But so long as you are a minor, there is nothing you can really do about it.

[Eris]

or its a reason that you don't really need to know. There are somethings in this world that you don't get to know and that is life. If her wishes are to keep the true meaning to herself or between her and another person it is your duty to respect that wish, because she is that from whence you came.

It is just weak to be unable to motivate your decisions, and have them stand criticism.

[Regex]

It is just weak to be unable to motivate your decisions, and have them stand criticism.Sometime try to tell a younger child that they're wrong about something. Explain to a young teen girl that her sweetheart and her are not likely to stay together, and that she shouldn't be making long term plans with him just yet. While some are willing to listen, most kids that age won't listen.. And you can give all the reasoning in the world, but when it comes down to it, she's not your responsibility, and she's just setting themselves up for heartbreak later on.

So what if she actually was your responsibility and she didn't listen? What more can you say? And what if something more serious were at stake than heartbreak? It's very common for children to clash with their parents, and quite often they don't even want to listen to their experience. You eventually get tired of arguing. You know that explaining yourself won't do any good. So... What more can you say? You say "I make the rules, and that's all there is to it."

Your parent or guardian may not always be right. But all their rules are for a reason. Maybe you don't understand the reason, but there is a reason, usually a very good one. Sometimes you have to just accept that you aren't in charge, and you don't have all the experience.

[[Boolean]]

I hate that too...but, they do have their reasons.

Me: Can I use the computer.
Parent: No.
Me: Why?
Parent: Because.
Me: Because why?
Parent: Because...I said so.

[Sagat]

Because I said so is the lamest argument/reason ever, and usually said by people lacking an actual reason and usually stemming from a selfish desire

(ie - can I use the computer? --no. --Why? -- Because I said so (because I intend to use it soon))

[Eris]

Sometime try to tell a younger child that they're wrong about something. Explain to a young teen girl that her sweetheart and her are not likely to stay together, and that she shouldn't be making long term plans with him just yet. While some are willing to listen, most kids that age won't listen.. And you can give all the reasoning in the world, but when it comes down to it, she's not your responsibility, and she's just setting themselves up for heartbreak later on.

So what if she actually was your responsibility and she didn't listen? What more can you say? And what if something more serious were at stake than heartbreak? It's very common for children to clash with their parents, and quite often they don't even want to listen to their experience. You eventually get tired of arguing. You know that explaining yourself won't do any good. So... What more can you say? You say "I make the rules, and that's all there is to it."

Your parent or guardian may not always be right. But all their rules are for a reason. Maybe you don't understand the reason, but there is a reason, usually a very good one. Sometimes you have to just accept that you aren't in charge, and you don't have all the experience.

Uh, how is she ever going to learn if she isn't allowed to make mistakes?

[Princess Minako]

While that is all well and good, its natural for a parent to attempt to protect their offspring from any harm, emotional or physical. Not to mention you are the parent you are legally responsible for this younger thing. Childrern don't always understand a logical reasoning for what you say, their thought processes arn't developed enough. Take a 6th grader and explain to them the complex world of social politics. There are certain ages where no matter how hard you try, they just don't get it. So explaining to children whose favorite question is "why?" and this leads to unending circular logic, sometimes you just have to stop it with an absolute unquestionable answer.

Idealistically we'd have all the time and resources in the world to sit and explain to children exactly "why". But realistically this is not the case. Sometimes the answer is no, and the child must learn to accept it for what it is, the real world won't care to explain to you the reasoning. So why lull them into a false sense of security?

[Princely Dreaming Doll]

Actually it sort of annoys me when you ask your parents why.
They answer with the simple solution "Because" and yet when they want something from us thats an answer and we say "Becuase" they say it isn't an answer.
If it is not a good enough answer for them. Why can they answer with a "Becuase" or "Cause" or :"Because I feel like it" and we can't?

[lorie]

I know. I agree with Fallen Doll. But it is better to respect your parents-they have more experience and usually a reason. Though this can be unfair in some situations. Still, it is really hard not to argue back when they dont give a good enough reason.
Ive had that before.

[LadyPSerenity]

I think it's a perfectly acceptable answer to a question.

Minako-mom and Aaron have stated all the right reasons and in the end all I believe it comes down to respect.

The decision is as it is, and questioning it further than "Just Cause" is showing disrespect. Sometimes you're just not ready to understand, sometimes there isn't time to explain it. If my parents said "Just cause" or my boss says that to me, it's getting done that way - Even if I don't like it. I respect them, my parents brought me into the world and my boss pays my salary. So like it or lump it Just Cause is an answer, and sometimes it's the only answer.

[Bibi of the Blue Sea]

Uh, how is she ever going to learn if she isn't allowed to make mistakes?
you could learn from others' mistakes as well not just your own.
if someone was to jump off a bridge and you were told he died, would you do it too to see if you would die too? i think not...

[Vendetta]

Uh, how is she ever going to learn if she isn't allowed to make mistakesThis is my thoughs exactly. Parents are suppose to prepare you for the future. When they tell you is no, or because, then how are you suppose to have a sense of what to do in an instance when you must make your own decision? That definately isn't preparing you for the future. I also think I've already said this, But here I go again. Even if the parent is the adult and you are suppose to obey, If they don't justify ONE act, or thing you are told to do just ONE than how am I suppose to think it is the right thing to do? Like others have said, If 'Just cause' Is not an answer when I say it, then it shouldn't be an answer when they say it. They may be older, but they aren't better. We have are reasons, they have theirs. Either both sides state their resons, of both sides don't. If you don't respect me, I won't repect you. If you don't give me and answer, I won't give you one. That is MY rules,for myself, that I never break.

[Princely Dreaming Doll]

I think it's a perfectly acceptable answer to a question.

Minako-mom and Aaron have stated all the right reasons and in the end all I believe it comes down to respect.

The decision is as it is, and questioning it further than "Just Cause" is showing disrespect. Sometimes you're just not ready to understand, sometimes there isn't time to explain it. If my parents said "Just cause" or my boss says that to me, it's getting done that way - Even if I don't like it. I respect them, my parents brought me into the world and my boss pays my salary. So like it or lump it Just Cause is an answer, and sometimes it's the only answer. Yes you may say that now, but look at it more than that. In some cases when you actually make your point "Just Cause" is an answer.
But other situations a simple question were you haven't presented your case "Just Cause" is not an answer.
Her grandmother didn't present her case so "Just Cause" in this situation is not an answer.
In our PMs you presented a case so in that situation "Just Cause" is an answer.

[Princess Minako]

actually we don't know the situation presented so how can you make that judgement call. What if she had asked to put her hand on a hot stove? The grandmother said no, she asked why? and the grandmother said "its hot" and she asked "well I want to find out how hot" and the grandmother replied "no" again, now this would continue indefinately so the answer is "just cause". Could that be the question? yes, because infact we were not given the exact question or situation. So one can only make generalizations.

We don't know the entire conversation, we dont' know if the grandmother did or did not present the case, we're having the tail end of a conversation that obviously had more dialogue in it. Not only that the recount of it seems very skewed to her own viewpoint.

In the end Just cause is an answer because believe it or not you are sometimes just not ready or there isn't enough time/energy to get into an arguement. Also they are the adult and parent and you inevidably have to listen to them until you are 18.

Life sucks, get a helmet, deal.

[LadyPSerenity]

They may be older, but they aren't better.

No they aren't better - they just have a LOT more experience than you because they've been down that road before.


If you don't respect me, I won't repect you.

You're disrespecting your grandmother when you argued with her. Somethings are private. And Just Cause is an acceptable answer at that point. It's also acceptable where her experience out weighs your own.


Yes you may say that now, but look at it more than that. In some cases when you actually make your point "Just Cause" is an answer.

Your boss, doesn't need to make a point, it's do it... or get fired. And they need not give you the reason behind anything. So unless you want a bumpy ride start accepting "Just Cause" is an answer.


But other situations a simple question were you haven't presented your case "Just Cause" is not an answer.

I can think of a few times where "Just Cause" isn't an answer but it's not relying on whether the situation is complex or simple. It relies on specific issues that led up to the answer.
In terms of why you're not allowed to go out late at night - Respect your parents rules. Just cause there, is the answer. I said no. That's all there is to it. (Note this is an example)


Her grandmother didn't present her case so "Just Cause" in this situation is not an answer.

This isn't debate class, that is her GRANDMOTHER. If anything all I saw in that whole thing was a big lot of Disrespect.


In our PMs you presented a case so in that situation "Just Cause" is an answer.

PMs are exactly that. PRIVATE messages. In otherwords, I won't go further into this because it is a Private message between you and I therefore shouldn't be brought up in this thread at all.

[Vendetta]

How am I disrespecting her? Everytime she asks why, I tell her why. I give my respect, and I am now sick of doing it, and receiving none in return. You keep saying she has her private reasons why not. Lets say it was something as ptty as why you can't use the computer. What reason would she not want to tell me? She never goes on the computer. Now, If it is something complicated, that may lead to endless questions, I will accept that for an answer. But, I am not the type of person to get into an endless quesion kind of conversation, If I want to know something that would take a lot of explaining, I actaully just look it up on the internet.

[LadyPSerenity]

Disrespecting*

I would never in a million years probe into the personal life of my parents, grandmother or any one else. It's not my business. If they want to tell me they will.

If they are my parents or my boss, or my grandparents, I have to accept that they know what is best and Just cause is an answer at that point.

How would you feel if someone YOUNGER than you, starting probing into your personal life with "Why"

If you wanna talk petty about the computer - The computer can in the end all do damage, people can get addicted. Maybe the parent is saying "No" because they want the child to enjoy the out doors or a good book at the same time. They are trying to protect the child. Rules are rules, accept it.

Sometimes the reason is implied and your further pursuit of a personal matter is disrespectful.

[Vendetta]

Disrespecting*

How would you feel if someone YOUNGER than you, starting probing into your personal life with "Why"


I would be absolutely fine with that. I have had tht done before, And I give an answer, I explain my best why. When it I am asked a question that I personally don't know the answwer to, I just say I don't know.

[LadyPSerenity]

Somehow I HIGHLY doubt that.

I'd would be offended, in all honesty. If My "Child" (don't have one) at one point turned to me and said "Just cause is not an answer you have to explain why" When it comes to my personal affairs, my child doesn't need to know why.
Strangers, don't need to know why, and my employees when I worked at McDonalds as a Manager(Don't work there anymore) didn't need to know why.

[Eris]

I would never in a million years probe into the personal life of my parents, grandmother or any one else. It's not my business. If they want to tell me they will.

If they are my parents or my boss, or my grandparents, I have to accept that they know what is best and Just cause is an answer at that point.
It is your duty to rebel against authority figures, if you succeed, you will help bring down your inferiors, ifyou fail, they will rightfully grow stronger, and resist future such attempts.



How would you feel if someone YOUNGER than you, starting probing into your personal life with "Why"

I wouldn't mind. I have nothing to hide, and do not fear questions. If they they a point, I might be willing to accept that.

[Bibi of the Blue Sea]

i think those of us who are saying its a good way to answer another's question are older than those who say otherwise...

i think this is because we know why we use it to tell a younger person not to do something...
i know i use it to tell my lil bro and sis not to spend all day watching tv or playing games. when they do ask "why not?" i simply tell them "i says so"
then if they continue asking, i simply tell them "show some respect, i know what im doing". it ends there. they know that im preventing them from doing things they'll only regret. why spend all day watching tv when they could do more productive things? i dont tell them my reasons why, thats for them to figure out on their own. if they had younger sibs, they would do the same.

maybe Vendetta the reason your grandmother has told you to do something is so that you may benefit from whatever it was. she does not have to answer to you as to why she wants you to do something, you do not have to ask why. your grandmother does not want to make your life terrible, she is only looking out for you. however, you are now disrespecting her and making it hard for her. i know she must feel awful having a granddaughter with such an attitude (not trying to be offensive). try looking at things from her perspective instead of always thinking that she wants to make your life a bore.

if you dont understand this try looking at the situation like this: you have a pet rabbit. this pet rabbit wants to run in the fields, but you know for a fact that there are weasels in the fields. weasels love to eat rabbits. so you tell your rabbit that no, she may not run in the fields. your rabbit gets mad and asks continously why. could you tell her that she might be killed? will the rabbit understand what it means to die? so instead of telling her the awful truth, what will you say? if the rabbit scorns you for not answering will you still love the rabbit?

[Vendetta]

Somehow I HIGHLY doubt that.

I'd would be offended, in all honesty. If My "Child" (don't have one) at one point turned to me and said "Just cause is not an answer you have to explain why" When it comes to my personal affairs, my child doesn't need to know why.
Strangers, don't need to know why, and my employees when I worked at McDonalds as a Manager(Don't work there anymore) didn't need to know why.I am not talking about personal affairs and such. I mean for something that you would have NO reason not to answer. I don't but into my grandmother's life. I don't care what she does. But, when it involvs me, I do care. If it doesn't involve me, I won't try to get involve, it is her life do as she pleases, But not if it effects me!

if you dont understand this try looking at the situation like this: you have a pet rabbit. this pet rabbit wants to run in the fields, but you know for a fact that there are weasels in the fields. weasels love to eat rabbits. so you tell your rabbit that no, she may not run in the fields. your rabbit gets mad and asks continously why. could you tell her that she might be killed? will the rabbit understand what it means to die? so instead of telling her the awful truth, what will you say? if the rabbit scorns you for not answering will you still love the rabbit?
I would tell the rabit this. In those feilds there are weasles, now weasled like to eat rabits like you. And I don't want you to be eatin.

Rabbit asks why.

I say, If you where eaten then who would I have around to talk to?
Rabbit asks what is death

I answer as best as possible.. Death is when you con't move, think, or do any functions. And when you die, I will miss you. I will burry you underground. After you die (In some beliefes) You go to a place called heaven, if you have been a good rabbit, and hell, if you have been bad.

Rabbit asks why would I burry it underground.

I reply, Because it is so I can go to you're grave, this place where you are burried, and remember you always. If I didn't burry you, then what would happen if I lost your body? Now, that wouldn't be good...

Okay, If there was more qeustions, I would answer as best as possilble. But I figured I would shut up, unless you make the rabbit ask something.

[pyrothunder336]

I have the same problem you do with my mom except with one little difference. If i ever said anything like "cause i said so isn't an answer" she would slap the hell out of me. One reason that your grandma does what she does is that she feels like she doesn't have to answer to you because your young and what adults automatically think is "ignorant." Another thing I can say is that is the way all adults are. They are extremely hypocritical. They want you to be good but you can't do what they do. If you ever find a way to end that, call me first!

[Eris]

if you dont understand this try looking at the situation like this: you have a pet rabbit. this pet rabbit wants to run in the fields, but you know for a fact that there are weasels in the fields. weasels love to eat rabbits. so you tell your rabbit that no, she may not run in the fields. your rabbit gets mad and asks continously why. could you tell her that she might be killed? will the rabbit understand what it means to die? so instead of telling her the awful truth, what will you say? if the rabbit scorns you for not answering will you still love the rabbit?

That is a very bad paralell.

There seems to be some sort of misconception that intelligence comes with age. That is true to a degree, but not completely. I know a 14-year old kid that's smarter than anyone else I know.

There seems to be paralell misconception that wisdom comes with age. That is plainly wrong. Wisdom comes with experience, and unless your kids have experiences, both good and less good, they're never gonna be wise. This, of course, only goes -so far-, you shouldn't let your kid do outright dangerous and stupid things that they may never recover from (like doing heavy drugs, dropping out of school, etc.)

[Vendetta]

I agree that intelligance doesn't come with age. Xero (for example) Isn't old, Yet he is very intellegent, and knows alot. I'm 12 (I bealieve I have said that) And I may seem ignorant, and what-not. But, If you got to know me I am not.

[Regex]

It is your duty to rebel against authority figures, if you succeed, you will help bring down your inferiors, ifyou fail, they will rightfully grow stronger, and resist future such attempts.Seems like the attempts are resisted pretty easily by saying "Just because I said so."

I sure hope you never are a parent. You would be the absolute worst thing for your children with an attitude like that.

In fact, if it's everyone's duty to rebel against authority, and to question them, all organization would fall, and society would be locked into a downward spiral of debates and repeating yourself. If people kept that attitude during human development, we'd all still be sitting in caves trying to eat rocks. After all, why should you accept when your pack leader tells you that rocks aren't edible? Why should you accept that you can build better structures to live in than caves? I'm sure you can take down that saber tooth tiger pack alone. They're only trying to keep you down by telling you not to try it.

We learn from not only our own experiences, but from the experiences of our previous generations. If we spent all our time trying to challenge our elders, we'd be absolutely nowhere.

[YourShadow]

This is an agruement I had with my grandmother about, 'Just cause' being an answer.
I was in the car and asked her why I had to do something, She simply replied, "Because I said so." I said, that's not an answer. She sai, "Oh well, It's good enough." I continued, "That IS NOT an answer, according to you, 'Just cause' and 'cause I said so' do not qualify to be an answer." She said back, "I AM the ADULT here, and you go by MY rules." I told her, "You know how on the news, they always say the child is like the parent? Well, I am like you, I don't and won't take that for an answer." I am not going to do something supid, if she doesn't justify why I am told to do it. I am like that and will always be. But, she continues to not tell me why, And I know... She HAS no reason why... Nothing that can be a reason. So, I continue to dis-obey unless she finds one.

Holy Crap I have to stop myself from throwing up after reading that.
You show no respect at all, your not even old enough to have a valid argument.
If you show her no respect, why should she show you any?

[Bibi of the Blue Sea]

if you did not understand my rabbit parallel, i have no other way of explaining the situation without confusing you. the rabbit example was as uncomplicated as i could get it to be. the weasels in the field is something you cannot explain to the rabbit since it will not understand. so even if you do tell them they will not realize the dangers of the situation.

Vendetta, the only thing i could tell you is that you are hurting your grandmother. not showing her any respect only makes her not trust you enough to let you do what you want.

[Eris]

In fact, if it's everyone's duty to rebel against authority, and to question them, all organization would fall, and society would be locked into a downward spiral of debates and repeating yourself. If people kept that attitude during human development, we'd all still be sitting in caves trying to eat rocks. After all, why should you accept when your pack leader tells you that rocks aren't edible? Why should you accept that you can build better structures to live in than caves? I'm sure you can take down that saber tooth tiger pack alone. They're only trying to keep you down by telling you not to try it.

Uh, that is exactly how a democracy works (in theory, anyways). Anyone can challenge the wisdom of any decision, and all decisions are, when push comes to shove, made through the social debate, even if we elect representatives they have to listen to what we think and motivate any previous decisions if they're going to get any votes. In totalitarian governments however, decisions may not be questioned and come from the top of the hierarchy of authority.

[Vendetta]

Holy Crap I have to stop myself from throwing up after reading that.
You show no respect at all, your not even old enough to have a valid argument.
If you show her no respect, why should she show you any?
Well, don't throw up on the computer. I have said, I did show her respect, I have shown her respect for more than 5 years that I've lived with her. I have just had enough, for 5 years I have received no respect what-so-ever. I guess I can say I'm being more rebellios lately. On a lot of things. The usual of twisting my words, I said, "Why should I give her respect, if I get none." And as most people I know, they twist it around and turn myself against me. (I wonder If I can do that) That was a breif description of the 'arguement.' I actaully don't consider that a real arguement. To me an arguement actually does something, it either effects you in a good or bad way. I guess this could qualify because it effected me. But, it is just the first time I've sopke me mind to her.

[Regex]

Uh, that is exactly how a democracy works (in theory, anyways). Anyone can challenge the wisdom of any decision, and all decisions are, when push comes to shove, made through the social debate, even if we elect representatives they have to listen to what we think and motivate any previous decisions if they're going to get any votes. In totalitarian governments however, decisions may not be questioned and come from the top of the hierarchy of authority.There's a big difference between a democracy, and it being your duty to challenge those in authority over you. You still have to accept the decisions that were made, and work to change them through the proper channels. Try using your method at work against your boss. You'd be let go after that happened too much.

Furthermore, this is Vendetta's legal guardian we're talking about. A successful family rarely is a democracy. You can not vote your mother out of office. That doesn't even apply to this situation. Not one bit.

[Eris]

There's a big difference between a democracy, and it being your duty to challenge those in authority over you. You still have to accept the decisions that were made, and work to change them through the proper channels. Try using your method at work against your boss. You'd be let go after that happened too much.

Furthermore, this is Vendetta's legal guardian we're talking about. A successful family rarely is a democracy. You can not vote your mother out of office. That doesn't even apply to this situation. Not one bit.

I'm not saying question everything with all means possible. (What would be the point in challenging someone you agree with?) I'm saying question the decisions what you find flawed, using the correct channels (if they exist and work).

A family can be democratic, remember that not all democracies are representative. For smaller groups direct democracy is a more suitable option.

[Regex]

I'm not saying question everything with all means possible. (What would be the point in challenging someone you agree with?) I'm saying question the decisions what you find flawed, using the correct channels (if they exist and work).

A family can be democratic, remember that not all democracies are representative. For smaller groups direct democracy is a more suitable option.Had that been what you were saying, I'd have had no reason to disagree with you. And you'd have had no reason to even say so, since the grandmother made it clear that the decision was final and questioning it would do no good. Still does not apply.

[Eris]

Maybe you misinterpeted me then?

[Vendetta]

There's a big difference between a democracy, and it being your duty to challenge those in authority over you. You still have to accept the decisions that were made, and work to change them through the proper channels. Try using your method at work against your boss. You'd be let go after that happened too much.

Furthermore, this is Vendetta's legal guardian we're talking about. A successful family rarely is a democracy. You can not vote your mother out of office. That doesn't even apply to this situation. Not one bit.
Hmm... I posted this already. But, it didn't post... Okay....

Actaully in my case, I some-what can vote my grandmother out of office. I now have the choice to move back with my mother, But I don't. When I finally have TOO much I will. I was going to leave 2 years aho. But, if you care to know why I haven't already, PM me... bacause It isn't relivant to the topic.

[Bibi of the Blue Sea]

i give up!!
it seems that a child is trying to have their way with the world. once children think that they know better than a parent or guardian, there is no getting through to them.
go ahead and do as you please. make all the mistakes you want, learn the hard way if you want.
afterall, if someone tells you fire is hot, you'd be the first one to go touch it.