Step in and take action NOW

[Vendetta]

I was just thinking about to, so many people (Including I) complain about the government, this may not apply for all countries, but here in the US f you have something to say, you shouldn't just sit there and complain. My english teacher was telling us about something, and she told us that if we wanted to, to write a letter to the seneter, This is completely voluntary, so she put up the letter format on the board, only 2 people, went up to copy it down. But, when she let people read they journals, nearly EVERYONE said that what is going on isn't right and SHOULD stop, But if no one takes action then it won't happen, so I'm writing a letter, axplaining tha I know what is going on, And i WANT something done about it, I may be young, But I Am still an American I still have the right to say what I want. I am going to type the letter today, and give it o my teacher tommorow, she has to read it to make sure we aren't sending death threats or anything. So, who agrees with me? People should get off their lazy... *Butts* and do something! :D

[Music Fiend]

Yes, I agree with you, Vendetta. You show more dedication and determination, at such a young age, than most of the lazy adults that I know. In 2000 year, I went, with a local volunteer organiztion, to people's houses, to encourage them to get up and vote, in the Kerry vs Bush election. The organization was passing stuff out, in favor of Kerry and the Democrats. I am an Independent, myself, so I could care less about supporting Kerry, or Supporting Bush; I just want these cry-babies to get up and vote. We arrived at an apartment complex, and met a few people. When we offered them information about the election and a flyer, they said that they wanted nothing to do with the election. That it was a waste of their time, and who they wanted to win wouldn't win. All that whinning and moaning about how bad Bush is, and those jerks won't even TRY to change anything? How can you complain about someone or something, and yet, you don't try to do anything proactive to improve the situation? That seriously ticked me off. Bush won, of course, and if those people don't like it, then they just have to deal with it and shut up; they have no right to complain.

Well, that was just a long example, but, in general, people should do more to improve THEIR community. Get out and vote, write a senator, go to town meetings, blah blah blah, do something! I'll get to vote next year, and I'll be sure to go out and rock the polls.

[Regex]

Well, while I completely support and encourage people to actually get involved and do something about things that bother you, there is something that is very important before you do this.

Make sure you have all the information involved. I URGE you, don't go out and make a fool of yourself until you're certain that you know the whole story. Consider all the consequences of the change you are proposing. These days, everyone wants to be an activist. I've even seen a rally where people urge everyone to stop washing their hands, because after all, bacteria are living things too. Be prepared to have your views challenged, and be ready to challenge back. But don't be afraid to open your mind to opposing views.. After all, just because you disagree doesn't mean that one of you is wrong..

That being said, please do get involved. That's the freedom that we have, so exercise it.

[Dmeth]

I was just thinking about to, so many people (Including I) complain about the government, this may not apply for all countries, but here in the US f you have something to say, you shouldn't just sit there and complain. My english teacher was telling us about something, and she told us that if we wanted to, to write a letter to the seneter, This is completely voluntary, so she put up the letter format on the board, only 2 people, went up to copy it down. But, when she let people read they journals, nearly EVERYONE said that what is going on isn't right and SHOULD stop, But if no one takes action then it won't happen, so I'm writing a letter, axplaining tha I know what is going on, And i WANT something done about it, I may be young, But I Am still an American I still have the right to say what I want. I am going to type the letter today, and give it o my teacher tommorow, she has to read it to make sure we aren't sending death threats or anything. So, who agrees with me? People should get off their lazy... *Butts* and do something! :D

What are you talking about specificly? I can tell that whatever is "not right" Is somthing in the government that you do not agree with but you neglected to mention what it was... ...I think..

[Capernicus]

Yes, finally someone mature here. I turned 18 last year, and I've yet to vote in any election. But I am registered, and I do sign petitions when asked...as long as I agree with what it's petitioning for. I met the mayor of my city last year, and he was a really great guy. Made me wish *cough* other political figures were that dedicated.

Did you hear about the Secretary of the Press resigning? And then Bush gave a press conference about how he will choose a replacement that HE feels is right. >.< Yeah, like he had such great success with things like that in the past. *coughsupremecourtnominationscough* We've yet to find a new judge as far as I know. But that press conference....he was able to reveal more information than the press secretary had in his 3 years in office. Hello? Is anyone home?

I will vote in the 2008 elections. I am deeply concerned on who we pick. It will be a great election, because the candidates will have an equal chance of winning. I hate that past presidents almost always get reelected. >>

In the meantime, I think I'll continue to keep my eye out on issues I feel strongly about. *coughgaymarriagecough* Ain't no constituional amendmant banning that gonna be passed if I have anything to say about it.

[Krsnik]

Capernicus, you obviously don't know the entire Secretary of Defense scandal, do you? Condoleza (Or however you spell her name) was given false information by the GERMANS. The German government, along with the RUSSIAN republic, gave us the information regarding Iraq and the weapons of mass distruction. If you want to act "mature", read what Member Name stated. Don't act unless you know the ENTIRE story. Obviously, you don't.

[Capernicus]

Capernicus, you obviously don't know the entire Secretary of Defense scandal, do you? Condoleza (Or however you spell her name) was given false information by the GERMANS. The German government, along with the RUSSIAN republic, gave us the information regarding Iraq and the weapons of mass distruction. If you want to act "mature", read what Member Name stated. Don't act unless you know the ENTIRE story. Obviously, you don't.
What? No need to be so condescending. I didn't say I knew jack squat about the scandal, I just said I saw that he resigned. I saw some of his press conferences too in the past, and he mostly seemed like he dodged questions. Referred them to other heads of departments. >.< Why don't you just calm down, eh?

[Krsnik]

Oh, i'm calm, dude. Sorry if you mistook me for something other than that. >_>; I didn't mean to come across like that. It's just a big, big, common misconception. If you're talking about Collen Powell, he deserved what was given to him. Honestly. However, that doesn't mean that the facts he was given were true, either.

[Capernicus]

No, I was talking about the Secretary of the Press. Some guy, I don't know his name. I didn't say anything about that chick you mentioned, or Collen Powell. Didn't he resign too a while back?

[Princess Minako]

I'm lost. I see a whole lot of talking here and very little facts being shown. What is being done thats wrong? whats so bad? what do you know? You are saying that you know what the government is doing, like its hiding something from you.

No crap the president will choose someone that he feels is right, THATS HIS ELECTED JOB. Holy cow, now we're just trying to find reasons to criticise him. Thats seriously rediculious.

Marriage is not a right, its a social definition that gets governmental tax benefits. The society as a whole has to define whether or not gay, straight, or cross species marriage is acceptable. Talk to the people around you, they're the ones voting it down, not the president.

The Goddess has Spoken

[Sayoran]

I praise you Vendetta of actually getting up and taking some sort of action, but sadly an angry letter usually doesn't get you anywhere - that's why when I'm slightly older I am hopeing to getting involved in some more extreme political groups, assuming the UK gets into the state I predict...

But basically Vendetta you are right: if you're not part of the solution - you're part of the problem.

Thanks,
Sayoran ^_^

[Capernicus]

No crap the president will choose someone that he feels is right, THATS HIS ELECTED JOB. Holy cow, now we're just trying to find reasons to criticise him. Thats seriously rediculious. I may be wrong, but I thought it was the president's job to nominate a qualified candidate who will best serve the interests of the country, and who will uphold the constitution as set by the founding fathers, not just WHO HE WANTS. That would be bordering on lobbying.

[Keitaru-san]

thta whats happening, people just whining up even me, but when comes to action i get lazy, but if i see there are others to support me i will take action.

[Regex]

I may be wrong, but I thought it was the president's job to nominate a qualified candidate who will best serve the interests of the country, and who will uphold the constitution as set by the founding fathers, not just WHO HE WANTS. That would be bordering on lobbying.Well, yes. But the President's beliefs will affect how he feels is best for the country. That's why the Presidential candidates' beliefs are so important in an election. The idea is that the President appoints people who support his beliefs, so you vote for a candidate that shares opinions with you on the big issues.

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

I may be wrong, but I thought it was the president's job to nominate a qualified candidate who will best serve the interests of the country, and who will uphold the constitution as set by the founding fathers, not just WHO HE WANTS. That would be bordering on lobbying.
Yeah, but the Founding Fathers also intended for the position of Vice President to be filled by the next runner-up on the ballot. It didn't happen. The Founding Fathers were smart, but figured that the leaders elected would be like them and be more patriot then partisan. So basically, the Founding Fathers were overly idealistic at times.

[Vendetta]

What are you talking about specificly? I can tell that whatever is "not right" Is somthing in the government that you do not agree with but you neglected to mention what it was... ...I think..I purposely left that out, because that is not the point of the thread, I don't want for people to only talk about that one matter, and that is why I didn't say it, I may make a thread being specific later, But for now I dont' think I will....




Make sure you have all the information involved. I URGE you, don't go out and make a fool of yourself until you're certain that you know the whole story. Consider all the consequences of the change you are proposing. These days, everyone wants to be an activist. But don't be afraid to open your mind to opposing views.. After all, just because you disagree doesn't mean that one of you is wrong..

That being said, please do get involved. That's the freedom that we have, so exercise it.I have only been researching for 2 days, But I have seen plenty. You don't know how mature, intellegent, and informed I can appear, If I'm this dedicated, and want this so much.JNow, I don't now everlst detail, But I know a lot.


I praise you Vendetta of actually getting up and taking some sort of action, but sadly an angry letter usually doesn't get you anywhere - that's why when I'm slightly older I am hopeing to getting involved in some more extreme political groups, assuming the UK gets into the state I predict...

But basically Vendetta you are right: if you're not part of the solution - you're part of the problem.

Thanks,
Sayoran ^_^ I am not writing an angry letter, Like I said, I am saying I know what is happeneing, I know I don't like it, And I know something should be done... And If you all think I know some top-secret crap, no... It just takes some research to find out much about it, It's not like on the news...

[Princess Minako]

I may be wrong, but I thought it was the president's job to nominate a qualified candidate who will best serve the interests of the country, and who will uphold the constitution as set by the founding fathers, not just WHO HE WANTS. That would be bordering on lobbying.Who the president would think would be "right" would be the most qualified candidate who supported his views and would best serve the intrests of the country in that way, that would be who they would want. So they are quite one in the same. That sentence you're saying is hypocritical in itself.

This is just another blindly bashing Bush thread. yeay

[Sagat]

So what if it is? Let the good times roll

[Vendetta]

Who the president would think would be "right" would be the most qualified candidate who supported his views and would best serve the intrests of the country in that way, that would be who they would want. So they are quite one in the same. That sentence you're saying is hypocritical in itself.

This is just another blindly bashing Bush thread. yeayOK.... This is NOT I reapeat NOT A BUSH BASHING THREAD I can't stress that enough, one of my older threads turned into a Bush Bashing one, This is for intelligent people, that know what the hell they are saying, not for critisizing weather not, or wheather they like the president. I am SICK of people constantly bringing up how much they dislike him. So, if you want to 'Bash Bush' DO IT SOMEWHERE ELSE, because If I see you flooding a good thread such as this with trash like that, I WILL bad rep you... And that is for everyone!

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

OK.... This is NOT I reapeat NOT A BUSH BASHING THREAD I can't stress that enough, one of my older threads turned into a Bush Bashing one, This is for intelligent people, that know what the hell they are saying, not for critisizing weather not, or wheather they like the president. I am SICK of people constantly bringing up how much they dislike him. So, if you want to 'Bash Bush' DO IT SOMEWHERE ELSE, because If I see you flooding a good thread such as this with trash like that, I WILL bad rep you... And that is for everyone!
You are the one telling us that if we have a problem with our government we should do something about it. Bush is the government. 1 + 1 = 2. Even if you didn’t intend to single the Republicans out, that’s what it appeared to be to a neutral outsider.



And honestly, (many) Senators don't care what you have to say unless you donate to their campaign, or otherwise help them. That goes double if you ask them to do something that goes against party line. There are very few people in government that actually vote for their conscience, most vote with the pack. Your English teacher isn't a realist.

[Vendetta]

My english teacher may not be actaully doing anything, But she IS showing us how to act when we are older, So, no't say things because you don't know her, even though this may not change the situation, She is still telling us, that if enought people try, we can do something. No matter what you think, I will always believe that.

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

My english teacher may not be actaully doing anything, But she IS showing us how to act when we are older, So, no't say things because you don't know her, even though this may not change the situation, She is still telling us, that if enought people try, we can do something. No matter what you think, I will always believe that.
I believe large numbers of people can affect change. It's called a rebellion.

[Princess Minako]

thats call idealism, and is very rarely what happens. Hollywood would love for you to believe that in the end the pieces fall together and everything will just work out the way you want it and that of course will be the right way.

In the real world, this is not so. Writing letters will do little to none, and in truth the electoral college negates any vote you may have as well. You're actually voting for the electoral college to vote a certain way and in the end they don't have to do that ANYWAY. Idealism comes easy to the young. You're filled with "OH YOU can be the ONE person to make a massive difference and change the world".

Just by seeing what you're teacher has told you, its quite easy to come to the conclusion that they are an idealist. We don't have to "know" her to see that.

[Vendetta]

I actaully don't think the senator would give a *cough* crap... But, I'm still trying... I don't care if I do nothing.. But, Atleast I can say I tried, unlike the lazy people who sit on their couches eating icecream, watching the news and saying, "How in the world could they do that?!"

[Capernicus]

Who the president would think would be "right" would be the most qualified candidate who supported his views and would best serve the intrests of the country in that way, that would be who they would want. So they are quite one in the same. That sentence you're saying is hypocritical in itself.

This is just another blindly bashing Bush thread. yeayFirst, I would like to state for the record that I am not bashing Bush. Quite the contrary, had I been old enough to vote in the '04 elections (1 year away from 18! >.<) I would pobably have voted for him too. He had experience, which almost always outweighs any political fame.

Second, I would also like to assert that what you say is true: the pesident chooses the most qualified and just candidates....assuming he is knows exactly what that is. I have nothing against Bush, I like the guy (he takes most of the heat for the mistakes of his inferiors), but you must admit he screwed up pretty badly with Iraq and Bin Laden. I wouldn't blame him if he was way out of touch with the American people right now with all the things that are on his plate. He's got the worst job: no matter what he does, one group will hate him for it. Being a politician sucks.

Out of respect to Vendetta, I'll get back on topic here. I'm not 100% on these figures (and please correct me if you happen to know the real ones), but I thinks it's somewhere around 60% of the population that is elligible to vote but do not. And out of that 40% that does, about half voted for him. So, Bush is a president that was placed in office by 20% of the population (again, I'm not bashing Bush). What does that say about us as Americans? We are just too lazy to get involved, blaming everything that is wrong with our country on one group or another. Why do we play the blame game? For all our hype about democracy, we sure don't practice it much here. So how is it that we can teach other countries about it? What did we do, give them our civics books? The non-voting population is a very diverse crowd, ranging from young college students like me who ignore those deemed "overly political" to those baby boomers who feel out of touch with current issues. Why do people choose to let others make the decisions they have every right, nay, the rsponsibility, to make themselves? It doesn't make sense.

[MistressPookyChan]

The political scientist and activist in me is loving you for posting that! Please do write to your senators and govenor! They DO listen. They will listen more than the president will because they are concerned with getting votes. I've volunteered with a couple state and national politicians and they do listen to the people in their area and care what you have to say. There have been many instances where politicians have been pursuaded to vote a certain way because of their constituents.

Another idea is to write editorials for your local paper. It lets your ideas be heard while educating others. And, it looks really good on resumes. ;) The thing with editorials is that they reach a wider scope of people.

Get involved! Volunteer! Let your voice be heard!

[akiko_kalla]

And honestly, Senators don't care what you have to say unless you donate to their campaign, or otherwise help them. That goes double if you ask them to do something that goes against party line. There are very few people in government that actually vote for their conscience, most vote with the pack. Your English teacher isn't a realist.

Actually, they do care. Especially if you have many people writing/emailing/calling your office for days because of an issue. They will listen because no matter who pays for your campaign, the people who vote decide if you are elected in the future.

Idealism, coupled with stubborn determination, is something that although it doesn't always work out does change the course of society. The problem right now is the country is divided on its ideals...together we stand, divided we fall. No change was ever created because someone didn't try or because they accepted things as they were. Change starts with one person, one person who decided things could be different and that they could change them. They may not accomplish their goal of changing the world, but they may very well set into motion the thought processes and people who do.

I do however, totally agree that although you may feel you have seen enough you still need to make sure that you know the whole story. No one in a seat of power will listen to you based solely upon your emotions and one sided view. (I'm not saying yours is, just saying make sure it's not.) There are societies much larger than your city, your country, your continent, and that is the society in which these people find themselves. Seeing things from the other side helps you to understand what it is you truly believe so you may better articulate it when presenting your own side.

[Vendetta]

I do however, totally agree that although you may feel you have seen enough you still need to make sure that you know the whole story. No one in a seat of power will listen to you based solely upon your emotions and one sided view. (I'm not saying yours is, just saying make sure it's not.) There are societies much larger than your city, your country, your continent, and that is the society in which these people find themselves. Seeing things from the other side helps you to understand what it is you truly believe so you may better articulate it when presenting your own side.

In formal letters, They many times sound bad when I write it, I don't sound human, Because I Don't put any emotion into it. For example I had to write a news paper type letter for hurricane Kartina, I put all the facts and no opinions, no emotion. Which may or may not be a good thing.

[!.Ski Takeshi.!]

What the heck is going on here?!

[akiko_kalla]

I do however, totally agree that although you may feel you have seen enough you still need to make sure that you know the whole story. No one in a seat of power will listen to you based solely upon your emotions and one sided view. (I'm not saying yours is, just saying make sure it's not.) There are societies much larger than your city, your country, your continent, and that is the society in which these people find themselves. Seeing things from the other side helps you to understand what it is you truly believe so you may better articulate it when presenting your own side.


As for if it's a good thing or not I think it just depends on the person and a little research into their background and views might help you determine if you would like to add any emotion or not. Normally emotion looks disorganized and irrational, but then again if you have none at all it can easily be dismissed as not something that is meaningful. Emotions are one of the greatest factors in memory and understanding, but it all depends on the person in the end.

[Vendetta]

What the heck is going on here?!
Read the posts and it isn't very hard to figure out.

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

Actually, they do care. Especially if you have many people writing/emailing/calling your office for days because of an issue. They will listen because no matter who pays for your campaign, the people who vote decide if you are elected in the future.

Idealism, coupled with stubborn determination, is something that although it doesn't always work out does change the course of society. The problem right now is the country is divided on its ideals...together we stand, divided we fall. No change was ever created because someone didn't try or because they accepted things as they were. Change starts with one person, one person who decided things could be different and that they could change them. They may not accomplish their goal of changing the world, but they may very well set into motion the thought processes and people who do.

I do however, totally agree that although you may feel you have seen enough you still need to make sure that you know the whole story. No one in a seat of power will listen to you based solely upon your emotions and one sided view. (I'm not saying yours is, just saying make sure it's not.) There are societies much larger than your city, your country, your continent, and that is the society in which these people find themselves. Seeing things from the other side helps you to understand what it is you truly believe so you may better articulate it when presenting your own side.
You have too much faith in humans with power. The basic fact is, the way legislators and president/governors are elected now-a-days proves the axiom true: No one who can be elected, should be. The way that the system works is almost farcical in the way it has guaranteed that the person with the most money, most political advocate groups, and most time in front of a camera will win 99/100.



When you send a letter to a senator, the first thing he asks himself is whether a large amount of people in his district feel the same way. Then he compares it to what his contributors want from him. He then asks himself, assuming he can get another term, which is more important; the number of people willing not to vote for him because of this, or the amount of campaign contributions he will get from his supporters and the amount of votes that can buy. If he isn't electable, he has no incentive to side with the people, but has the possibility of rich, important friends after his term is done on the other side.



To paraphrase, a Senator doesn't receive his power from the goodwill of the people, he receives it from their votes. Money is a medium that is easier to transmute into votes than goodwill ever was, and a lot easier to obtain in quantity.

[akiko_kalla]

You're free to believe what you will, but I do not necessarily have faith in humans with power, and I'm not sure about humanity itself...that however, is a totally different topic. Perhaps I was not clear, their voting power was my point and I did say that it is not usually one person who accomplishes a goal, but many. It's true the system is set up poorly and it is unfortunate that even one community protesting a bill or issue will most likely not make a difference. But those that do not exercise their own responsibilities and freedoms are just as much to blame as those in office. Those who sit back and allow things to happen only to complain about them have the same mindset that allows these people to stay in power. When enough people protest, when people are actually moved into action, then change can occur. When banded together, humans are capable of great and terrible things. And these things are seldom accomlished by those with "power." The problem in the government I see is only another symptom of a disease that is quickly spreading throughout society. That's my point, one person may not be able to change the future by one action or many, but changing the mindset of a few and then a few more, etc. can have far reaching results.

This type of change is exactly what happened to a bill where I live. The students, parents, and community of the schools flooded the senators' offices with emails, calls, and letters over the week and it did change what happened. I am not delusional enough to think every time you write a letter it will change the world, nor did I say anything of the sort. Nor do I believe they will fall down and weep at the sad story you present, in fact I suggest presenting yourself in a logical manner rather than an emotional one. Likewise, I am not pessimistic enough to believe that sitting back and just accpeting what is going on is the only option. You don't have to win every battle to win a war and when you are fighting for something you believe in it is the same. In fact, if you focus only on your success/failure you will probably float to one extreme or the other. If you feel strongly enough about something, you should do something. It isn't always the end result of your one action that matters. There is a much larger picture going on, both in the world and personally.

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

You're free to believe what you will, but I do not necessarily have faith in humans with power, and I'm not sure about humanity itself...that however, is a totally different topic. Perhaps I was not clear, their voting power was my point and I did say that it is not usually one person who accomplishes a goal, but many. It's true the system is set up poorly and it is unfortunate that even one community protesting a bill or issue will most likely not make a difference. But those that do not exercise their own responsibilities and freedoms are just as much to blame as those in office. Those who sit back and allow things to happen only to complain about them have the same mindset that allows these people to stay in power. When enough people protest, when people are actually moved into action, then change can occur. When banded together, humans are capable of great and terrible things. And these things are seldom accomlished by those with "power." The problem in the government I see is only another symptom of a disease that is quickly spreading throughout society. That's my point, one person may not be able to change the future by one action or many, but changing the mindset of a few and then a few more, etc. can have far reaching results.

This type of change is exactly what happened to a bill where I live. The students, parents, and community of the schools flooded the senators' offices with emails, calls, and letters over the week and it did change what happened. I am not delusional enough to think every time you write a letter it will change the world, nor did I say anything of the sort. Nor do I believe they will fall down and weep at the sad story you present, in fact I suggest presenting yourself in a logical manner rather than an emotional one. Likewise, I am not pessimistic enough to believe that sitting back and just accpeting what is going on is the only option. You don't have to win every battle to win a war and when you are fighting for something you believe in it is the same. In fact, if you focus only on your success/failure you will probably float to one extreme or the other. If you feel strongly enough about something, you should do something. It isn't always the end result of your one action that matters. There is a much larger picture going on, both in the world and personally.



Let’s put it this way. In general elected officials care about the will of the people in an extremely cynical and non-genuine way, and it isn’t there number 1 priority. It comes well after Party Line, and Special Interests.