What Rpg That Started All Rpg's

[Chaos_Hell_Angel]

Can anyone of yall, think of a RPG that started that all the other rpg's to be put on the map or the very first RPG to ever be made? In my opinion, the RPG to put other RPG's on map was Final Fantasy 7.

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

D&D was the first RPG that put RPG's on the map, due to the fact it was the first RPG. It was inspired by early tabletop war games. Not really a videogame, but all early RPG videogames were based off it to a greater or lesser extent. All newer ones can still trace their lineage back to it.

[Khanxay]

Seriously, I don't think FF7 influenced anything except a movie and some more FFs

[Wilder]

D&D was the first RPG that put RPG's on the map, due to the fact it was the first RPG. It was inspired by early tabletop war games. Not really a videogame, but all early RPG videogames were based off it to a greater or lesser extent. All newer ones can still trace their lineage back to it.
I was going to say the same thing.

Video game wise, many Baulder's Gate games.

[Regex]

Well, Final Fantasy wasn't close to what started the RPG trend. Looking back into history, the video game RPG's started before graphics were even a factor.

The earliest known computer RPG is suspected to have been "Dungeon" (1975) which was a computer implementation of the tabletop game Dungeons and Dragons. It was all done in text mode, with an ASCII top down dungeon map. of what you could see.
From that came the common "text adventure" genre of games, and the MUD's which were online through local BBS's. You think the MMO's were fun, imagine how big a nerd you had to be back before everyone was online, telling your friends that you played a computer game with someone from a few miles away.
The first console RPG was for the Intellivision, called AD&D Treasure of Tarmin (again, based on Dungeons and Dragons), and was released in 1982.
However, the line of RPG's we know spawned from the Ultima games, first one realeased in 1981. Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy, released in 1986 and 1987 respectively, borrowed many aspects from the Ultima series, but they became far more well known.

Final Fantasy VII came out many years after all this.

So, in the end, I used a lot of words to say what Manhatten Project said already. D&D had the most influence.

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

Seriously, I don't think FF7 influenced anything except a movie and some more FFs
Well, I can't really go along with that based on the Fact that FF7 begat the current generation of RPG gamers, and that FF7 did influence other series with an emphasis on Cinematic and convoluted storylines. Near every console RPG has these things now, except for certain standouts like Nippon Ichi's SRPGs. But I enjoy Bethesda's RPGs more than any Square-Enix RPG, save maybe Chrono Trigger.

[Darth Tyranus]

Dragon quest was the first RPG to make it big, so to speak. While there were many before it they were all pretty much garabge DQ really made the genre popular, in japan anyway. Final fanatsy was the one that really took off over here. Which makes no sense since DQ is a lot better than FF.

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

I think Wizardry was very popular in Japan before the Dragon Warrior series came out. I could be wrong.

[Khanxay]

Well, I can't really go along with that based on the Fact that FF7 begat the current generation of RPG gamers, and that FF7 did influence other series with an emphasis on Cinematic and convoluted storylines. Near every console RPG has these things now, except for certain standouts like Nippon Ichi's SRPGs. But I enjoy Bethesda's RPGs more than any Square-Enix RPG, save maybe Chrono Trigger.Began the current generation of RPG gamers? More like current generation of FF fans. Not including myself of course, since it wasn't the game that gave me the interest in RPGs.

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

Yeah, the current generation of RPG Gamers. Very few, if any, were suduced by things like Wild Arms, Suikoden, or Shadow Hearts. Final Fantasy 7-10 are gateway games.

[Regex]

Dragon quest was the first RPG to make it big, so to speak. While there were many before it they were all pretty much garabge DQ really made the genre popular, in japan anyway. Final fanatsy was the one that really took off over here. Which makes no sense since DQ is a lot better than FF.Because the Dragon Quest games didn't get better as quickly as the Final Fantasy games did. I agree, Dragon Warrior was a better game than Final Fantasy. But Final Fantasy II came out here, and it was so much better than anything else. Followed by Final Fantasy III, blah blah blah.
As a series, the average quality of games is probably higher for Dragon Quest, but there were Final Fantasy games that were FAR better than any of the Dragon Quest games were.

[Khanxay]

Yeah, the current generation of RPG Gamers. Very few, if any, were suduced by things like Wild Arms, Suikoden, or Shadow Hearts. Final Fantasy 7-10 are gateway games.Wild arms and Suikoden are awesome. Then there was Legend of the Dragoon (or was it The Legend of Dragoon...i never could read the title right), Legend of Legaia, and Star Ocean 2. Most of these games were basically overshadowed by Final Fantasy.

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

Yeah, but that's my point. Those games are deeper. No one starts getting into videogames by playing something like horrendously deep like Disgaea; they start by playing a Final Fantasy. Or Super Mario. Or Pac Man.

[Regex]

Yeah, but that's my point. Those games are deeper. No one starts getting into videogames by playing something like horrendously deep like Disgaea; they start by playing a Final Fantasy. Or Super Mario. Or Pac Man.Eh, I played Wild Arms.. It wasn't really all that deep. It was comparable to Final Fantasy IV in story. But good game overall.

The big thing is that Final Fantasy had something to work off of. Not to mention, Wild Arms came out with virtually no advertising, while Final Fantasy VII had flashy TV ads with the graphics from the FMV's from the game. That's why Final Fantasy VII got so much more attention. After that, they didn't have to advertise nearly as much, as their name got around plenty.

[SGI]

Dungeon Quest is the first known computer RPG, although perhaps the first major graphic based RPG to come out was Akalabeth: World of Doom (1980) which was a precursor to the Ultima series as well as perhaps the first major CRPG hit.

Fast forward a few years and another major CRPG landmark was Baldurs Gate, which effectively breathed new life into a genre, which was dying a slow death at that point.

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

By deeper, I meant something more like more nerdy/less mainstream. I tried playing WA 3 and gave up half way. Not really my cup of tea.

[Lord Garma Zabi]

FF7 truely gave rpgs the name it has today, and is the best game ever, lol. Just kidding, but I bet Manhattan and Member Name found it funny. Actually, for once I will agree with you guys. For the most part, FF gave nothing to the rpg world that wasn't already there, but may have been one of the more popular rpgs during the mid 80's, selling a little less than one in a half million copies. Dungeons, an VERY oldschool rpg, was what seemed to get people interested in rpgs in general. It is obvious that you aren't any older than what, 15, 16? Now don't get me wrong, the FF series remains one of the most popular rpgs of all time, having all of their games outside of FF2 sell more than 1 million copies, which is pretty good for a franchise atleast in my opinion, and for the times that FF came out, that wasn't too bad at all.

I do agree with Manhattan, almost every 13-15 year old gamer, who likes rpgs, claim that FF7 is the greatest rpg of all time. Now don't get me wrong, I happen to agree with this, but it did not place the rpg world on the map, to all the oldschool gamers who still gave FF7, and other newer rpgs, a chance. But on the other hand, through all those young gamers liking FF7, it has made rpgs a lot more popular than before, so who knows. FF7 could be what placed rpgs where they are today. Would newer gamers give Tales of Symphonia a chance, if they never played another rpg except FF7? Who knows, I'm sure a few would, but FF7 did pave a way a little bit. But.........sadly, lol, I'll have to go with the D&D series for starting the whole rpg genre up and giving it the kickstart towards the greatness it is today. For if it wasn't for D&D, Final Fantasy may not have even sold 100,000 copies. All speculation, but those are my thoughts.

[frankieanime]

i cant say for sure but i think final fantasy did

[Chaos_Hell_Angel]

Could they make D&D more like Final Fantasy?

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

I'm sure people have made FF campaigns for D&D. That’s the great part about D&D. The man don't control what you play YOU do.

[Darth Tyranus]

but there were Final Fantasy games that were FAR better than any of the Dragon Quest games were.
Poppy cock, dragon quest 8 is much better than any final fantasy I have ever played.

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

I disagree. DW8 had a cast of unlikable characters ('sides Yangus). Battling was frequent, and not very fun. Looking for rarely dropped Items for the alchemic pot was a huge hassle. Story was OK, but not my thing. FF 7, if not FF6 were at least slightly better than DW8. Love that DW universe Pokemon rip-off they put out on GB a while ago though even though it’s no competition for Pokemon Red/Yellow/Blue/Silver/Gold.

Now Lunar:SSSC was a Final Fantasy Killer. Had flaws, but its best parts were much better than anything in the FF series. Great story, with a manageable sized cast. Lots of laughs from the conversations with the villagers. Only two bad parts. A battle system that isn't really flexible with each character having a specialty with no way to change it, and the fact that there were no real side quests, just the Bromides, Female's Hot Spring, Rare items, and Red Chests. Still, better than Post-7 Final Fantasy’s by a factor of 10. Wish more designers ripped off ideas from Lunar than Final Fantasy 7-10.

[MistaCloudStrife]

Uhhh... what exactly could you rip off of Lunar?

A "Guy saves Girl" storyline?
An AI choice for battling?
2D graphics?
A simple battle system even if you don't choose the AI?

Don't get me wrong... I love Lunar SSSC and EB. They're pretty good games for when I just want to play a simple RPG with a good story.

Not Galeon, MAGIC EMPEROR Galeon. Funny guy, that Galeon.

[Khanxay]

I do agree with Manhattan, almost every 13-15 year old gamer, who likes rpgs, claim that FF7 is the greatest rpg of all time. Few of that age group even know what a rpg is. And the ones that claim the FF7 is the greatest, usually haven't played any rpg beyond final fantasy or games FF related. I'm embarrassed to say im part of that age group. -_-

[Lord Garma Zabi]

The definition of an rpg is varied a lot, and most people in that generation probably say:

RPG- A game in which you level up

Which most of the time, yes, but there is definetly more than just that. My definition

RPG- A game in which you take control of the character, in that you can decide what you wanna do, when you want to do it.

Now obviosly for a game's sake, you still need a storyline, and an idea of how to complete the game. When I say "what you wanna do", that is in the lines of what the game has coded into it, but freedom pretty much. If you can do other things, besides the story(like sidequests), it pretty much follows as an rpg. There can be more depth than that, if you want to get specific about what game falls where, but thats the gist of it

I was 9 when I played FF7, and got a good idea about what an rpg was at the time. Thats because, I really hadn't played a game like that, so I could easily tell the difference between that kind of game, and others like Doom Troopers and Super Mario World, lol. Its not hard to tell the difference, you just develop MORE about what an rpg is when you play others, like Legend of Dragoon(crappy game, lol) and Bahamut Lagoon(good game).

[Manhattan_Project_2000]

That’s a really bad definition. For one perspective, your definition applies to a ridiculous number of games. For example, using that definition GTA is a RPG. You control a character, and can do pretty much what ever you want with him, at anytime. From another perspective, almost no games fall under your definition. I'm sorry; FF7 is about following a very linear story to its conclusion. If I could, for example, give up the quest to save the world at anytime to settle down with Yuffie and become a Chocobo herder, or shoot Cait Sith in the head for no reason, then it would be a game where I could do what I want to.

My definition of an RPG: Any game that is based more on stats than game playing skill. RPG's are fun, and can have good stories, but at their root, they are nothing but math engines hooked up to an interface. Basically the difference between RPGs and Other Genres is this: I could stick the controller in someone else’s hands, tell them what exactly to do, and the same outcome would result.

[Regex]

A game in which players assume the roles of characters and act out fantastical adventures, the outcomes of which are partially determined by chance, as by the roll of dice.That is the definition. All of your definitions are lacking. Stats being more important than skill, that's not a requirement for it to be an RPG. That's just a byproduct of the way most video game RPG's are created. As for the idea that it's a game where you control the character and what you want to do, that's also ridiculous. Final Fantasy X is a good example where you don't control that. It's very linear, but it's still an RPG.

Nonetheless, your whole post was really pointless, filled with YOUR personal history, and your personal opinions. When the thread is about the history of RPG's, not the history of Garma_Zabi.

[Khanxay]

According to what I read (that right, i read!), RPGs trace their roots to wargames. *Goes back to reading*


The first role-playing games as such were played in the late 1960s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960s) in and around the University of Minnesota (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Minnesota)'s wargaming society, especially in scenarios moderated by Dave Wesley and Dave Arneson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Arneson). Wargame designer Gary Gygax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Gygax) had recently developed a set of rules for a late medieval (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval) milieu. This unusual wargame saw publication under the name Chainmail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chainmail_%28game%29). Although Chainmail was a historical game, it included an appendix for adding fantasy elements such as wizards and dragons. Arneson modified Chainmail, reducing the use of battle miniatures and exploring its potential for fantasy narrative. This new hybrid game became known as Blackmoor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackmoor).

Blackmoor contained core elements that would become widespread in fantasy gaming: hit points (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hit_point), experience points (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience_point), character levels, armor class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armor_class), and dungeon crawls (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeon_crawl). Like the wargames it grew from, Blackmoor used miniature figures and terrain grids to illustrate the action. Arneson and Gygax then met and collaborated on the first Dungeons & Dragons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons) game.

From Wikipedia

[Regex]

According to what I read (that right, i read!), RPGs trace their roots to wargames. *Goes back to reading*
From WikipediaYes, but that doesn't mention computer games at all. This being in the video games thread, we're focusing on the computer RPG's, not the tabletop games that clip referred to.

[Skeith/Haseo Wave]

Hey, what happended to Everquest?

[Ichiro Matsuchani]

FF1 was the very first RPG that I've ever played. It's pretty much what got me hooked to them.