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sjøpølse
06-23-2005, 12:39 PM
This will turn into some "your gross" or "its so gore n disgustin" spam. But we'll still try.

http://www.strasbourgcurieux.com/fourrure/
http://www.meetyourmeat.com/
http://www.petatv.com/

There are so many. I just thought about it. I'd like some structured debate, like: to what extent are we, individually, responsible of this; what mean can we take for it to stop; do we really want it to stop, or do we just want to feel bad about it for the 15 minutes following the video and then not think about it anymore?

Post your thoughts, constructively, please.

Ωmega
06-23-2005, 12:44 PM
ive seen much worse,but i guess it cant really be shown here...do to some of the younger members...but if you have a strong stomach go to ogrish.com.some of the things i saw there made me cry...which is very hard to do.

behold,the power of fake fur!

red storm
06-23-2005, 01:04 PM
or do we just want to feel bad about it for the 15 following the video and than not think about it anymore? I'm going with this statement. People will go "Oh my god the poor little animals" untill they fire up world of warcraft and start killing the boars and rabits for fur.

Zedekiah
06-23-2005, 01:31 PM
Why are all 'em pelts and furs so expensive if the extermination is that cheap and simple?

Makes me ponder.

shi_amai
06-23-2005, 02:40 PM
It's wrong is what it is. Why is it people's lives seem to be so much more important? Call me crazy (go ahead, lots of people do), but I think animal's lives are just as much important.

Wandering Samurai
06-23-2005, 02:42 PM
i've seen worse, but it is still wrong to do that.

dark_angel92
06-23-2005, 02:51 PM
the thing I seen on http://www.petatv.com/ was horrible, what they did to those poor monkeys, and I'm an animal lover , I wanna St****** somebody, (I'm not sure if I can say that word)

Tsuna Kadiri
06-23-2005, 03:16 PM
Why is it people's lives seem to be so much more important? Call me crazy (go ahead, lots of people do), but I think animal's lives are just as much important.I think so, too. <3 <3

It is wrong, but people don't care about the life of the animal, they care about the money. Killing an animal for food is a different story, because that's only natural. You need to eat. It happens in the wild.. prey/predator. But you don't need to wear a $1,000,000 fur coat. Honestly, just watching 1 of those was enough to make me cry... and I don't get teary-eyed very easily.

And to think, to make 1 fur coat, it takes around 20 animal's furs. And most of these celebrities that buy them only wear the coat once. Is it really worth it?

Drago the golden Dragon
06-23-2005, 06:11 PM
anyone that will harm an animal needs to be shot...they have no right to live
they should be done away with at all costs...animal cruelty is against the law and people that do it dont deserve to livehttp://animeforum.com/images/smilies/mad.gifhttp://animeforum.com/images/smilies/mad.gifhttp://animeforum.com/images/smilies/mad.gifhttp://animeforum.com/images/smilies/mad.gifhttp://animeforum.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

Uchiha Ulquiorra
06-23-2005, 06:52 PM
no one should treat any animal like that

yokoe1887
06-23-2005, 08:10 PM
OMIGOD!!!! THOSE PEOPLE ARE HORRIBLE FOR DOING THAT!!!!!:curses: I knew there was a problem with animal cruelty............ but I didn't know it had gone that far.....:(

Ollie
06-23-2005, 10:13 PM
I'm not an especially big animal-rights person [I really, really dislike the PETA fanclub people], but...some of that crap is rediculous. Sometimes they don't properly kill or even knock out the animal before skinning it, so it's flayed alive and conscious. It has 10 minutes of agony [without it's skin D:] before finally dying after that.

Darrmyth
06-23-2005, 11:21 PM
i am not a animal right's person but i wouldn't harm an animal

sjøpølse
06-24-2005, 07:25 AM
I am not a PETA fan either, though they provide the visual materials.

So, we kinda agree on the "it's so wrong" part; however, there were other parts to the problem, though I guess we'll stick to the 15-minutes-bad-feelings-after-the-video.

Are there any 'solutions' to it?
Would you be ready to take them?

What I can't stand personaly is not (I'm a vegetarian) people who eat meat, for instance, but people who can't watch the video, agree it's horrid, but still continue to eat meat. If you can't take the way it is 'made', then, don't eat it.

It would be interesting to go further the point where we find out that "it's wrong", and ask ourselves "why is it so" and "what can I do".

Mmm, remnants of idealism. Haha.

Tiggit
06-24-2005, 07:38 AM
I think killing animals is fine if it is needed for survival. But these days humans have no idea what we need. but the least that they could have done was kill the raccoons before skinning them. Dispicible

the chance of it stoping is almost nothing. killing animals makes money, animals make food, we work by killing animals(some do), we use work money to buy food.



that is why i wish we could go back to the way we used to live(indians for example. and Adam and Eve, if you believe in that). so we arnt cought in a never ending circle.

naojason
06-24-2005, 08:34 AM
I literally did a long post about this in my Morality and Justice forum last year, however, I can't recover my posts from that course anymore. http://animeforum.com/images/smilies/frown.gif I'd actually recommend reading the essays if you have access to them:

"Animal Liberation" by Peter Singer
*Focuses on the ideals that may give animals rights and how these rights may compare to human rights; The conclusion tends to be a rational middleground in which we work away from unnecessary animal cruelty, while making the remaining necessary animal cruelty unnecessary.

"Do Animals Have Rights" by Carl Cohen
*I actually didn't like this, because he uses the term "rights" as absolute instead of relative (which I don't feel can exist as long as there's "superiority" and "inferiority" in which the ruler has the right to rule, and the ruled only has rights the ruler grants), however, there's still some very good points made about the irrationality of granting full human rights to animals.

To get a good pair of views surrounding the issue.
My text was "Analyzing Moral Issues" by Judith A. Boss.

If I find any past material from that course though that I might have possibly saved to my laptop, I'll post it here. http://animeforum.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

yokoe1887
06-26-2005, 12:08 AM
I understand that we kill for food and can accept that but......................the way we go about it is what I can't support...........If your going to kill the animal for food, do it, don't just torture it to death..........even though we can't understand what they say doesn't mean they're not screaming and begging us to stop.....

LizaLiza
06-26-2005, 07:33 PM
... In a way I don't know if I should believe this or not. It is true that people probably still kill animals for fur or to eat them, but when they cut that racoon or racoon/panda's limbs off, they didn't show that it's limbs were off when it was being hung upside down. It still had it's limbs on. So then why would they cut it's limbs off? For fun? No, it was probably so they could get it's fur off easier. But then when they hung it upside, why were it's limbs still on?

I think someone just did this just to get a reaction from anyone who watched it, just to make them feel bad. And also, I don't think that animal would be able to survive being cut up like that. I think some computer programer just wanted to do this for their sick minds...Their all SICK.

I don't believe any of it, none of it at all.

Now with the cows, pigs, and chickens I don't know about that. I think that is real. And well since I've watched that video I've stopped eating chicken, cow, and pig...It actually worked on me.

Overall: The animals being killed for their fur I think that video is false, and with the farm animals I think it's true.

Elfy
06-26-2005, 07:35 PM
I hate cruelty to animals...I join the charities that stop it, because I hate it so much.
I don't see how people can even do that to animals.

Tragedy
06-26-2005, 10:27 PM
i am to sadistic to care thank you

Amena
06-26-2005, 11:08 PM
never be cruel to animals

Mayonnaise
06-26-2005, 11:30 PM
Okay. For the first video with the raccoon/dog being thrown around and being strung up at the end of a truck is not real in my opinion. I would think the animal would screech from being cut with a knife. And when they are done taking its fur off and throwing it on a pile of animals isn't real either. If you look closely, the animals with no fur are clean. No blood or anything. While the raccoon/dog had blood all over it.

The other two videos I saw I thought were real. Most of the acts they do to the chickens, pigs and cows I thought were real. And the one with the monkeys I thought seemed pretty real to me.

After I watched those videos, I wondered, "How would those doctors feel getting a tube stuffed through their nose and having drugs being pumped into their systems?" And, "How would those farmers feel living in poor conditions and then being slaughtered?" I don't think they would like it. And I think that's how the animals feel.

Overall, these people who commit these acts toward animals should be punished in my opinion.

Queen-of-Mars
06-27-2005, 01:12 AM
You know, a lot of people would consider eating meat cruelty of animals. People would consider hunting cruelty if you aren't able to kill the animal with the first shot. My stance is, unless it is killed ONLY for something stupid like a strip of fur, or any other stupid reason such as that, THEN it is animal cruelty.

I am a consumer of many meat products including deer, cow, pig, turkey and duck. If it were required, i'd get the gun and shoot it myself.

VARLY
06-27-2005, 01:38 AM
wow.... what a scene.
yes, that's cruel. act like that should be stopped.
but how bout consuming meat? there are ppl who become vegetarian bcos this reason. but then what's the animal breeding function? hmm...

DragonNight
06-27-2005, 02:03 AM
omg.
i understand that we need to eat, but why torture them?
everything kills each other, thats the way we survive, but why should we do this to the animals? im not sure if the first video was true or not but the second one was just horrible...
i havent watched the third yet...im alittle scared i admit...
its just...
no words can express how surprised and how horrific it was....

Alchemy
06-27-2005, 03:29 AM
Heh, a little known fact. The IAMs company, which is one of the leading producers of foods and products for our many pets, kills cats and dogs in the process of making these foods for CATS AND DOGS.

Screwed up, huh? A little research goes a long way. I've stopped using IAMs altogether. I've advised my friends and family to do the same. Yes, I'm a tree-hugging animal saving enviro-lover. According to my friend. >_>

Mutsumi~Otohime
06-27-2005, 07:16 AM
I have seen so much........it haunts my heart and soul......I never realized humans could be so cruel....as a member of PETA we strive to end it all.....we continue to move forward fighting for what is morally and ethically right......I used to be a vegan but my family wont let me, so I have to wait untill I am 18 they say that it is unhealthy but its a sacrafice for something much bigger and worth the fight..if anyone would like you can become a member of PETA at www.peta.org (http://www.peta.org/) Join us in the struggle to improve humanity and save millions of animal lives.

Oh I just recently found out that Silk soy milk uses an animal biproduct in its ingredients that it hasnt listed on the bottle, I dont know if it is old news.....but I just found out....


*bows* untill next post farewell

Princess Minako
06-27-2005, 09:33 AM
If it wasn't for Rh testing on cow's I wouldn't be here today. I'm all for scientific research on animals. I owe my life to it.

The Goddess has Spoken

Mutsumi~Otohime
06-27-2005, 09:43 AM
I think I know why most people dont agree with PETA it only that some of the members go a little extreme and kill or injur humans to make a point when they dont realize that, that will only cause them to dissagree more......I am sure Ingrid Newkirk is not that way nore enjoys it when people are, what I think matters is the moral or motivation behind the group, and I do realize PETA doesnt have a good reputation behind it, but what really matters to me is that they are atleast trying to help the animals no matter if it has a bad reputation or not I support it 100% isnt that supposed to be what matters?

*bows* untill I post again

Mutsumi~Otohime
06-27-2005, 09:49 AM
If it wasn't for Rh testing on cow's I wouldn't be here today. I'm all for scientific research on animals. I owe my life to it.

The Goddess has Spoken
So sacraficing another beings life to save your own is worth it? Imagine if you were one of them. Having chemicals dripped into your eyes or soaked into your skin, everyday living in pain from the burning acids forever eating away at your life. It is very unpleasent and to be honest I am against it, if humans were not so envolved in a materialistic world there would be no reason to test on animals to see if its safe for humans I mean do we really need all those chemicals to stay alive, no we dont and quite frankly all it is doing is killing innocent lives, and hindering the bond between human kind by pitting us against eachother, that in itself is nothing to be proud of.

Princess Minako
06-27-2005, 09:51 AM
PETA screws up because it attracts the extremists. The problem is any idiot can claim to be a "member" of PETA and throw red paint on someone. All this does is generate distrust/dislike/animosity from the general public and actually imho works against their progress. They want to fight for animal rights, pissing off everyone around you isn't the way to do it. It will just get people to ignore you. If they were able to weed out the extremists and be able to say "you know these people really arn't following the PETA code" they might have a bit more of a fighting chance to make a difference.

As it stands as soon as I see those letters I'm going to assume its some raving fanatic and just ignore anything they have to say and cross to the other side of the street to avoid them.

And yes I do put my life above a lot of others, its called self preservation. Do you even know what Rh testing is? I highly doubt it. Your blood has Rh factors, positive or negative, I happen to be RH Positive while my mother is negative. The problem was that my brother is also positive. He being born first caused my mother to develop antibodies that kill anything that is not RH Negative. So if they hadn't developed the drugs to combat that I would not exist, which means a lot of things wouldn't... probably this site that you're talking on....

P.S. Don't double post thats what the edit button is for.

The Goddess has Spoken

Mutsumi~Otohime
06-27-2005, 09:59 AM
I think I know why most people dont agree with PETA it only that some of the members go a little extreme and kill or injur humans to make a point when they dont realize that, that will only cause them to dissagree more......I am sure Ingrid Newkirk is not that way nore enjoys it when people are, what I think matters is the moral or motivation behind the group, and I do realize PETA doesnt have a good reputation behind it, but what really matters to me is that they are atleast trying to help the animals no matter if it has a bad reputation or not I support it 100% isnt that supposed to be what matters?

*bows* untill I post again
As stated before, (you must have not read it yet or were not paying attention):laugh:

TodayIsMine
06-27-2005, 10:27 AM
i havent read anything in here...just saw the name of the thread.

my opinion on animal cruelty is that the ones who do it are cowardly bastards who were hated themselves. i hate animal cruelty...animals should be treated with respect and dignity. like, if people can have respect, i think everything should be restpected, cuz we're the worst creatures on this planet.

Mutsumi~Otohime
06-27-2005, 10:41 AM
i havent read anything in here...just saw the name of the thread.

my opinion on animal cruelty is that the ones who do it are cowardly bastards who were hated themselves. i hate animal cruelty...animals should be treated with respect and dignity. like, if people can have respect, i think everything should be restpected, cuz we're the worst creatures on this planet.
(watch the language please read forum rules) yes I do agree and hopefully humanity will reach the point to where they someday will understand that.

TodayIsMine
06-27-2005, 10:57 AM
sry mitsumi, i just had to use that word to express myself...heh.

Mutsumi~Otohime
06-27-2005, 11:14 AM
(thats ok sometimes its slips ^_^) anyway are you a member of any animal rights organizations? If you are interested in PETA please read the above threads.

TodayIsMine
06-27-2005, 11:26 AM
no, mitsumi, sry...i'm not into organizations, i just have my personal opinion and that's it. and i'm not a huge animal lover, i just find it inhumane to do what people do to them.

Princess Minako
06-27-2005, 11:50 AM
I read what you said about PETA, I just restated my own opinion. People before us killed animals to use their fur for warmth and home decoration. They used their teeth as money and claws for tools. All this was for the survival of the species. Explain how this is different than using animals for scientific testing of things that will ensure the survival of the species? Testing on animals ensures that people will be born and continue to live, people... like stephen hawkings, who do great things for humanity and further our understanding of the world around us. There are a lot of great people who have done a lot that have benefited from animal testing. You for one are one of these people, How do you think Pasteur did his experiments on anthrax or pasturization and antibiotics? Who do you think came up with the PASTURization of food? Testing on animals.

I'm all for testing when it comes to the betterment of our species, its called self preservation. I disagree with testing for cosmetic purposes or for parfumes etc.

Everyone is always shouting save the animals, waaah waaah animal testing, I did mass genocide on fruit flies for three years and no one came in to free them. These are the people who free lab rats but run over squirrels. Most people who cry out in the animal cruelty industry are so hypocritical that their points all become moot.

The Goddess has Spoken

Janus Silverlock
06-27-2005, 12:14 PM
I probably should keep my mouth shut... because it's probably going to lead to problems between us, Mutsumi... but... I can't help but agree with Minako. If it came down to it, and someone had to choose whether to save the life of an animal... or the life of a human... which is more valuable? if we have to sacrifice the lives of animals to keep the human race alive... then it is what we have to do. I love you with all my heart, but i disagree with you on this point. I would not die to save the life of an animal. It is pointless, the animal wouldn't understand the gesture, and all intents and purposes of my sacrifice would have been for naught. I love you, and i know you know this, Mutsumi... but I had to state my opinion on this. I love animals just as you do... but... there are things that just can't happen no matter how much we want them to... you, PETA, any other animal rights organization... nothing will stop animal testing. it is a necessary evil in this world to preserve the human race. I hate it too, but it's just not something we can do anything about... we have to be ignorant of the pain of the animals in this case... because there is truly nothing we can do about it. As Minako said, the reputation of the members of PETA seems to make them all look like crazy people. Well... I've said my piece... I hope you don't get angry at me for my opinion. I love you, Mutsumi. *nods to Minako* I agree with you. However, when it comes to animal testing for the purpose of cosmetics... i disagree with that. I don't think animals should die for the purpose of making some rich beauty queen just a tiny bit prettier. That's cruel. For medical purposes... i can completely understand. Well... i'm gonna get off my soap box while i have the chance. bye bye. O_O;;;

P.S. i love you, again, mutsumi... I hope you aren't mad.

Kurai Ha
06-27-2005, 01:13 PM
Why are all 'em pelts and furs so expensive if the extermination is that cheap and simple?

Makes me ponder.Because of the work it takes to deskin the animal, peel off the meat, make the skin to leather and all that takes a really long, laborious time to do. I really don't care what happens to the animals, they're grown for food. Are we really to complain about it when we're the ones who eat it. I don't think the humans have grown to the top of the food chain to eat carrots. We're preditory animals. Deep fried chicken and hamburgers are yumie. The animals were raised for slaughter, its not really cruel. Though I hate cock fights and dog fights. Gambling animals lives is cruel. Neway, got to go. Otherwise I'd chat more. Laterz.

DeathBlade/13.666
06-27-2005, 02:05 PM
well, i'm not big into saving animals lives (especially with the Animal killing, and Dog torturing PETA) honestly i believe in kill it then eat it only, and don't waste it. which means you kill animals for food only (besides protection) then take what's left and don't waste it, make something nice out of it. but killing to just make a coat is wrong, it's just so wasteful and greedy. and that one video with the guy beating the ferrets to death is just wrong. at just give them a quick and easy death, don't beat them to death. >.>; and they wonder why the cow's so mad (j/k)

Princess Minako
06-27-2005, 02:15 PM
I'm sure if I went hunting I could find videos of PETA people doing just as bad things to people they feel are "absuing animals" Can we boycott them too?

The Goddess has Spoken

shi_amai
06-27-2005, 06:43 PM
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's wasteful and stupid. Why do you need to kill an animal so you can have a nice coat or something? Some people sicken me.

And actually, I'm not a person who's crying to free one thing, but hurt another. As I stated, I think ALL live are just as valuable, not a cat nor a dog, nor a horse nor a rat, nor a fly nor a frog, or a person, and so are have a more value in my mind. And personally, I would take any life above my own, because I just want to help people, and atone for things bad I have done in the past. I don't want to argue, though, because everyone is some what right.


I think so, too. <3 <3

It is wrong, but people don't care about the life of the animal, they care about the money. Killing an animal for food is a different story, because that's only natural. You need to eat. It happens in the wild.. prey/predator. But you don't need to wear a $1,000,000 fur coat. Honestly, just watching 1 of those was enough to make me cry... and I don't get teary-eyed very easily.

And to think, to make 1 fur coat, it takes around 20 animal's furs. And most of these celebrities that buy them only wear the coat once. Is it really worth it?

Alchemy
06-27-2005, 07:08 PM
I agree with some people's points more than others.

I believe that every life is worth something, whether it be an insect, an amoeba, a piece of plankton, you get the picture. I don't have the heart to kill anything, let alone eat it. But I don't believe it because of religious reasons, It's just my own personal beliefs.

Up until quite recently, I ate meat. I then decided to stop because I didn't like the way that it made me felt. My family is very much so a meat eating family, so all except my uncle and I eat meat. I'm not involved in any animal rights organizations, one, because I don't have access to them around here, and two because I don't have the time. But I've signed petitions to stop such things as those Bonzai Kittens. I know they've promised they don't hurt them, but I cannot stand to see a kitten squeezed into a miniscule plastic bottle for someone's amusement! And the things are still alive when they do this! They're alive the entire time! It's cruelty to animals and I hate it! I get that it's fake, but still. The concept and all of that is apalling.

So yes, not to impose my beliefs on anyone else considering everyone is entitlted to their own beliefs, but still...

sjøpølse
06-27-2005, 07:45 PM
Everyone is always shouting save the animals, waaah waaah animal testing, I did mass genocide on fruit flies for three years and no one came in to free them. These are the people who free lab rats but run over squirrels. Most people who cry out in the animal cruelty industry are so hypocritical that their points all become moot.
I could not agree more, especially about the last sentence.

Killing animals for food: okay. But you should be aware that, for instance, what we consider being an average portion of meat is waaay beyond what a real portion of meat should be (the size of a card pack or of you hand-palm). And the frequency also is greatly exceeded (3 times a week should be the max.). Moreover, I think that there still are ways to eat meat without excess, both in frequency in quantity, and to still choose where the meat comes from, although 'ethically-breeded' can't always be found everywhere. But it still exists.

About research on animals: yes, but to a certain extent. That extent most of the time being that we should not always find ways to save everybody (though that is not related to animals). Though there still is a little twist about it: the fact that it has always been made (ex.: fore-fore-fore-fathers doing alike, etc.) does not make it right - nor wrong (Stopping there before drowning in some relativist theories). There was quite an eloquent part of it n 'The Unbearable Lightness of Being' (Milan Kundera, - I should stop re-reading him).

Anyways, testing on animals, even if for our own survival, is not right: it'd be quite pretensious to call our own survival 'Good'; though it is not bad either. I hate it when people qualify of good or bad things that are neither; neither good or bad, we make it 'cause we have the possibility to do it, and it has nothing to do with morals.

And yes, I know it is incoherent with me bringing up this whole thread.

Eris
06-27-2005, 08:08 PM
--edit-- Nevermind, too many spelling errors, too tired to fix the post up.

Princess Minako
06-27-2005, 10:34 PM
But I've signed petitions to stop such things as those Bonzai Kittens. I know they've promised they don't hurt them, but I cannot stand to see a kitten squeezed into a miniscule plastic bottle for someone's amusement! And the things are still alive when they do this! They're alive the entire time! It's cruelty to animals and I hate it!
You realize that the whole Bonzai Kitten thing is a joke right? It was never real, the whole thing is a joke. -_-; Oh My God...... I'm officially done with this thread, all is lost.

The Goddess has Spoken

ShizukaSasayaki
06-27-2005, 10:56 PM
It's wrong is what it is. Why is it people's lives seem to be so much more important? Call me crazy (go ahead, lots of people do), but I think animal's lives are just as much important.Because, we lovely humans like to separate ourselves from all other animals. Animals can make it heard that they feel pain(whining and all other noises), but how many people actually are there and hear it when their future meal is being made? Don't answer that, I'm sure a few people in this thread have already answered the question.


I could not agree more, especially about the last sentence.

Killing animals for food: okay. But you should be aware that, for instance, what we consider being an average portion of meat is waaay beyond what a real portion of meat should be (the size of a card pack or of you hand-palm). And the frequency also is greatly exceeded (3 times a week should be the max.). Moreover, I think that there still are ways to eat meat without excess, both in frequency in quantity, and to still choose where the meat comes from, although 'ethically-breeded' can't always be found everywhere. But it still exists.
..Yeah. Got to love overeaters. Obesity, anyone? I don't know how appetizing meat is myself, but it seems like people have awful self-control issues when it comes to eating what their body requires. Not that I never overeat myself. But being surrounded by others who do and encourage it doesn't help. My parents think that if I am not hungry for a meal and skip it that I am anorexic and don't appreciate the fact that they made dinner, yet don't care to ask me if I am hungry or not...suppose I should tell them I'm not, but oh well.

One more personal note: Anyone who wants to just eliminate meat because of how things are run now is an idiot. Humans still need protein. I highly doubt that everyone wants to convert to eating only peanuts, walnuts, tofu, soy beans, etc. to get their necessary protein dosage when they can eat a scrumptiously grilled cow. If they did, they would've already. Unless they knew lived in a hole. But if they did, what are the chances they'd go to a supermarket or butcher's shop anyways? Other animals eat one another to survive, humans have the same right.

Mutsumi~Otohime
06-27-2005, 11:25 PM
I'm sure if I went hunting I could find videos of PETA people doing just as bad things to people they feel are "absuing animals" Can we boycott them too?

The Goddess has Spoken
I totally agree with you on that part...but I guess I just want to help so I overlook things I shouldnt sometimes *sighs*

Alchemy
06-27-2005, 11:28 PM
I did realize that it was a joke. What I'm saying is the concept is disgusting to me....

/Aifa|
06-27-2005, 11:42 PM
OMG, i just watched those videos and damn, a lot of that stuff is wrong. For a lot of people, it wont make them into vegetarians after watching, but at least it informs them about the things that go on out there. A lot of people dont have too much idea of how meat is brought to their table.

Hmm, all this animal cruelty to make money reminds me of what a priest at my school said: Something about "big heads and small hearts". Where having a big head means you only care about making money, yourself, etc... and having a big heart means you care for others more where you can sacrifice your own wellbeing to do it. He says that one cant have a big head and a big heart, so its best to have a big heart and a small head. How i found that related to this, is that as long as these people make good money for slaughtering animals for their fur, they wont have the heart to stop it just for the sake of caring for animals.

LizaLiza
06-28-2005, 12:54 AM
...I shall post some more opinions of mine on this thread!

Animals for fur:
I think that killing animals for their fur is just wrong. Most of the coats they make anyways are just UGLY. That's my opinion, though. And I bet after a while it will start to STINK! I know this, my grandmother has the fur of a mink and the skin of my mother's horse. (Though the horse was dead when they cut it's hide off!) We can now do things for fake fur...it looks just as nice and soft.

Research on animals:
I also don't think scientist's need to do research on animals for some simple things. Like perfume, that's ridiculous...and if there were something that I could do to save a human, by killing any random animal...I would let the person die. We have millions and billions of humans already...and it's only one, anyways. =/ "But the human needs to see the world, too!" Yeah but this human might be the next person to destroy the world. Or even be the next person to a new disease... o__O; *Cough.* That animal needs to see the world as well...But that's me. I'm pretty much heartless to a fault, Neh neh. =P Except when it comes for animals.

Now, if they are doing research on BIG disease's like cancer and HIV, I think they should continue on with this. But...why not do research on humans? It's practically the same. Hmph! >:/ Just another living creature with many different traits.

Nineteenth
06-28-2005, 01:16 AM
We need more mindless animal cruelty, they would do it to us if they EVER had the chance. Think of it, would'nt that cow get it's revenge for being made into a Happy Meal if the chance came alone? Would'nt that chicken like it's giblets?

Like all topic's I'm both ways.
If your doing something major, sure continue. Yet if it is something stupid.. Like most of the research being done at this point in time, they should quit it.

We won't know untill a real doctor Dolittle comes along.

Cow: I'm doing my part... -Gets lead into a meat grinder.
Pig: I'm doing my part! -Also gets lead into a meat grinder
Hamster: I'm doing my part! -Before getting injected with something
Horse:I'm doing my part! - Before being grounded into dog food
Chicken and it's babies Are you doing your part?! -before being made into a chicken dinner

Janus Silverlock
06-28-2005, 01:34 PM
first off, OMG reji. that's like... insane. O_o; though, coming from you, it doesn't surprise me. lol.

now... on to some other issues i have to address...



if there were something that I could do to save a human, by killing any random animal...I would let the person die. We have millions and billions of humans already...and it's only one, anyways. =/ "But the human needs to see the world, too!" Yeah but this human might be the next person to destroy the world. Or even be the next person to a new disease...


or that person could be your mother... or father... or yourself. then what? i bet in that situation, your opinion would completely change. If you had to sacrifice an animal to save someone you loved... you'd do it. don't lie.



But I've signed petitions to stop such things as those Bonzai Kittens


if you REALLY knew it was a joke... WHY oh WHY would you sign petitions to stop them if you knew they weren't real? *sigh*



Oh My God...... I'm officially done with this thread, all is lost.



I agree, Minako. This thread... is just a bunch of people, all spouting their own opinions, not listening to the facts, and all of us, INCLUDING me, are too stubborn to even consider changing our opinions. SO... this whole thread is just going to cause all of us to hate each other because of our opinions. SO... i realize most of you will hate this suggestion... but I SUGGEST that we stop arguing, because we won't change what anyone else believes... and just stop posting in this thread. I'm done with it.

Mutsumi~Otohime
06-30-2005, 10:18 PM
Wheather you like it or not this thread was made to inform people on animal cruelty. You may not listen but you read and gain knowledge from the previous posts. You may only pay attention just to argue the point, maybe not. But informing people on animal cruelty is all we can do, we cant force anyone to agree, nore should we everyone has their own opinions about the issue, yes it is wrong and some may not agree, but they know what people are saying is the truth, b/c god gave us the ability to judge write from wrong, and yes animal abuse and testing is WRONG....... and asking questions like oh if an animal was in a road and so was your mom which one would you save first. That is just an idiontic question, of course the person is going to save their mom, its just like asking if your dad and a stranger were about to die which one would you save, I mean come on your alaways going to get the same answer. Look at it this way God created humans, and so he also created animals, dont you think he cares about them just as much as he cares about us, I mean just b/c we cant understand animals does not mean they dont have feelings, I mean yes he did put us dominion over the animals, but that also means we are supposed to take care of them, not drown them in acid or cram them into tiny cages untill they die so we can eat them. No matter how you look at this situation you know its wrong hurting a living breathing lifeform is wrong no matter who it is. Animal rights activists may get a little exstreme and do things that are morally wrong but if you look at it they are only fighting for what they believe in, wouldnt you? I mean of course you would if you felt as strong as they did about a situation. I am not saying what they do sometimes is right.... but it is what they believe.... The way to go about spreading animal rights issues is to do it peacefully people are more likely to listen and maybe even understand.... I am asking this to auron, you know our cat Neko right well would you want him in a lab having acid dripped onto his skin or in his eyes, No you wouldnt right? Well same goes for every other animal in the world. I know animal testing "saves human lives" but there are other ways of testing products that dont injur or hurt other living creatures, they have just as much a right to live as we do, b/c God also created them and he loves them just as much as he loves us, I know this b/c I am speaking from my heart and I trust my feelings.... i have been an animal rights activist for over four years now........and continue to fight....... I may not achieve anything in my life time, but what I do know is atleast there are people out there who care, and all you have to do is hear them out, they may have a few things to say that could change your whole outlook on life.......

Janus Silverlock
06-30-2005, 10:30 PM
Alrighty... I can agree with you on a lot of what you said. NO, i am not FOR people hurting animals. Not at all. I love animals too. but... just to rectify something you said... According to the bible, no, God doesn't care about animals as much as he cares about us. Im not sure where... but somewhere it talks about how God knows everything about a sparrows life... where it flies, what it eats, how many feathers it has... etc. etc. etc. but immediately following that... it says "and how much more does He care about you, who was created in His image?" well... don't quote me on that... it's probably not exactly the same. but it's the same idea.

And... No, i wouldn't like Neko being treated like that. but what would that be considered? abuse, or testing? testing of what? what kind of testing requires a cat to have acid dripped in its eyes? Like minako mentioned earliar... i doubt anyone would complain if the testing was being done on insects. and aren't they just as much animals as the furry, cute things everyone always jumps to defend? I'm not trying to be argumentative, or to make you or anyone else upset. but... I don't see what alternatives to animal testing there could possibly be sometimes. what should we do, test it on a human, and risk them losing their eyesight? or losing their sense of taste, or touch, or scent, or hearing... I don't think that there is a human out there who would willingly risk those things for the purposes of science. animals were put on this earth to help us... *sigh* you know... i have made my points all clear in my last post. I am done with this thread. I hope everyone else gets my points i have tried to make. goodnight everyone.

Mutsumi~Otohime
06-30-2005, 10:41 PM
Alrighty... I can agree with you on a lot of what you said. NO, i am not FOR people hurting animals. Not at all. I love animals too. but... just to rectify something you said... According to the bible, no, God doesn't care about animals as much as he cares about us. Im not sure where... but somewhere it talks about how God knows everything about a sparrows life... where it flies, what it eats, how many feathers it has... etc. etc. etc. but immediately following that... it says "and how much more does He care about you, who was created in His image?" well... don't quote me on that... it's probably not exactly the same. but it's the same idea.

And... No, i wouldn't like Neko being treated like that. but what would that be considered? abuse, or testing? testing of what? what kind of testing requires a cat to have acid dripped in its eyes? Like minako mentioned earliar... i doubt anyone would complain if the testing was being done on insects. and aren't they just as much animals as the furry, cute things everyone always jumps to defend? I'm not trying to be argumentative, or to make you or anyone else upset. but... I don't see what alternatives to animal testing there could possibly be sometimes. what should we do, test it on a human, and risk them losing their eyesight? or losing their sense of taste, or touch, or scent, or hearing... I don't think that there is a human out there who would willingly risk those things for the purposes of science. animals were put on this earth to help us... *sigh* you know... i have made my points all clear in my last post. I am done with this thread. I hope everyone else gets my points i have tried to make. goodnight everyone.
I am not saying that cats get tested, it is loving and caring for an animal and not wanting that animal no matter it be a rabbit or a horse to get hurt. That was the point I was trying to make. Yes I would care about testing on insects they may get annoying sometimes just like humans but I would care just as much about them as I do about animals and i am sure a lot of other people would to, PETA had even had a few people who were fighting for dragonflies. But that is not the point, the point is no matter if god cares about us more or not he still cares about the animals and that means we should take care of them not abuse them or do silly and harmful tests on them just to fill our own needs. No nate testing is not the only thing....... chickens as well as cows, and pigs are also treated very badly... I even know a person who went under cover and worked in a chicken mill with a camera to film it on his own. But the fact still remains we are to take care of the animals not do what we wish and put asside thtat they have the right to live just like we do. Isnt that enough for you people to understand, it is not about weather we agree or not, its about doing what is right.......and quite frankly why are you even fighting the issue of animal abuse...... would you like it if it was the other way around?

Janus Silverlock
06-30-2005, 10:52 PM
I'm not arguing animal abuse. I completely, 100% disagree with the pointless, senseless mistreatment of ANY animal. okay? it's just that sometimes animals need to be sacrificed for the bettering of the human race. it's a fact that i don't like so much, but it's the truth. Even in the bible, the ritual sacrifice of animals like sheep was used as a temporary replacement for Christs blood as a means to our salvation. and it continues to happen today, in a different way. when an animal is sacrificed, and through that sacrifice, say we discover the cure for cancer... or the cure for asthma, or (why the hell not) the common cold? would that not be worth it? I realize that alot of animals are sacrificed senselessly, and NO i don't like it. but... *sigh* you get my point. and.. for the third time, i'm done with this thread. bye everyone.

Mutsumi~Otohime
07-03-2005, 09:03 PM
I did realize that it was a joke. What I'm saying is the concept is disgusting to me....
Yes I know you knew it was a joke, and I tried telling Sir Auron that, but *sigh* he just doesnt listen to me sometimes, I exsplained to him that it was the concept that mattered to you, not that it was a joke, but I guess people who know literally nothing about animal cruelty dont understand.

Blood Metal Derangement
07-03-2005, 09:58 PM
I know a guy that has choked and twisted the cats head off for growling or unintentionally scratching,all because they don't care to be held or they just want down.Ppl like that and others I belive should be stabbed gutted and burned from the face of the earth, I mean seriously........would YOU if a cat didnt want to be picked up, I mean YOUR cat that you don't feed,that you keep its litter box unchanged and full of.....yeah you know........get mad and grab it by it's neck and back feet and stretch it so hard it looked like a demented slinky?!?! I mean, if you did will or have you need to be stabbed directly in your eye socket.
ppl like than and others no matter their age gender or anything like that that needlessly hurt,kill and other wise maime animals or think their lives are meaningless need to be exterminated like the nazi concentration camps.Pack'em all in, and slaughter them all by blades and fire.:angry1: :curses: :rant: :soapbox:
I love animals, and really am pretty disgusted with what the human race is.To tell the truth........most ppl arent worth the excrement that they push out of their arses in a day let alone a lifetime.
ppl could probley bash me for this but, it is my opinion and everyone has one.

LizaLiza
07-03-2005, 11:08 PM
Ah, Blood Metal, I couldn't have said it better myself. That in a way is like my opnion. =P I agree with you...

Wolfwood
07-03-2005, 11:37 PM
on the news here there were stories of teens buring cats and hitting them to death.
the next day i heard some little year 7's at school talking about how funny it was and that they wanted to do it.
i was about to smash the kid against a wall but someone i talk with in class a bit beat me to it, knocking 2 kids to the ground and throwing the other into the wall.

most people at my school would kill anyone who thinks doing those things to animals is funny.
killing animals like that should be treated the same as killing a human.

leslieilsel
07-04-2005, 12:30 AM
they didn't suprise me, I already knew that humans think they are so great that they can do whatever they want to any animal they want, as long as its not another human. In my opinion humans are the most selfish creatures that ever lived and I am ashamed to be one, we think we're so much smarter and better than any other animal and that we can do what we want and destoy their homes & torture them until they die s we can eat them and have nice clothes all becuase the human race is horrible.

Alice_Fallen_Cloud
07-04-2005, 02:19 AM
The simple fact that you raised the question shows that you care. And i like how you worded your question serious, honest, but not overdramatic, just the truth, unfortunately i couldn't see the pics but maybe thats a good thing

Princess Minako
07-04-2005, 08:07 AM
Yes I know you knew it was a joke, and I tried telling Sir Auron that, but *sigh* he just doesnt listen to me sometimes, I exsplained to him that it was the concept that mattered to you, not that it was a joke, but I guess people who know literally nothing about animal cruelty dont understand.
Get off your bloody high horse and try coming back to reality. Its OBVIOUS that they didn't know that the bonsai kittens were a joke. Atop that whether or not we believe that he/she/it thought or didn't think it was a joke has NO RELATION to whether or not we are educated in the ways of 'animal cruelty'. Come on. Even mentioning it in a thread like this just shows that they thought it was real. Your "holier than thou" attitude is what drives people away from your side of an arguement.

Also taking a 'pot shot' at Auron like that is just rude. Get over yourself. You've benefited from animal testing your whole life, you just don't want to feel 'responsible'. Honey its call nature, if the monkeys could do it to us they would. We have the ability to 'philosophize' everything around us. When you grow up and mature you'll realize that we have that ability because there were people before you who did all the things that you're trying to prevent, and those things are what allowed you to survive.

Come back to me when you're my age and are a bit more informed about the history of science and what people like Pasteur did and how hypocritical most 'animal rights activists' really are. Oh and anyone who says that they're a vegetarian, they know less about how their own body works than anyone.

The Goddess has Spoken

LadyPSerenity
07-04-2005, 08:30 AM
Just a note for something that I think you should know/hear/read

We as humans (TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN) eat animals to live. Can you honestly tell me the other purpose of a chicken? What to pick grain off of the ground? Are cows there to keep the grass low? Purpose = Food... We need to live, we eat them.

Mistreatment of animals is another thing... but using animals for experiments to further the human race? Uh yea... Once again TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN HERE.

I was reading through this and I got to the point where I just stopped. Half of you are all "Go Animals" when you don't realize some facts.
Lions eat other animals, do you think in their society they have a "Animal Rights" group or a "Vegetarian group" That comes along and goes "Oh no, this is bad, we mustn't kill the animals!" No.
Of course you can argue they're not "Advanced" Enough to understand that theory, they're not honestly. But they're lack of "Advancement" or "Intelligence" is likely why they don't live as long as we do.
Honestly do you think any other species would do differently in our position. It's Survival of the fitest, and as of right now, we are the fitest. (Maybe the Dolphins will conquer us one day.)

We use our surroundings to expand our life, to learn and to develop. Minako's right when she says "how hypocritical most 'animal rights activists' really are." (Quoted straight from her post)

So we test on animals before testing on humans. Yes we still test on humans, and I know the arguement but humans have the choice... okay I'll give the monkey the paper and tell him to sign the waver... oh right, he can't read... or write...

No I don't support the person who kicks their dog every morning, or the person who neglects to feed the pet relying on them for food. I don't support that, that is animal cruelty.

I do however support the scientist who researches the cure to cancer and such and is using an animal for testing... sorry, but if that's going to help find the cure for cancer... so be it.

Mutsumi~Otohime
07-04-2005, 09:22 AM
Just a note for something that I think you should know/hear/read

We as humans (TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN) eat animals to live. Can you honestly tell me the other purpose of a chicken? What to pick grain off of the ground? Are cows there to keep the grass low? Purpose = Food... We need to live, we eat them.

Mistreatment of animals is another thing... but using animals for experiments to further the human race? Uh yea... Once again TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN HERE.

I was reading through this and I got to the point where I just stopped. Half of you are all "Go Animals" when you don't realize some facts.
Lions eat other animals, do you think in their society they have a "Animal Rights" group or a "Vegetarian group" That comes along and goes "Oh no, this is bad, we mustn't kill the animals!" No.
Of course you can argue they're not "Advanced" Enough to understand that theory, they're not honestly. But they're lack of "Advancement" or "Intelligence" is likely why they don't live as long as we do.
Honestly do you think any other species would do differently in our position. It's Survival of the fitest, and as of right now, we are the fitest. (Maybe the Dolphins will conquer us one day.)

We use our surroundings to expand our life, to learn and to develop. Minako's right when she says "how hypocritical most 'animal rights activists' really are." (Quoted straight from her post)

So we test on animals before testing on humans. Yes we still test on humans, and I know the arguement but humans have the choice... okay I'll give the monkey the paper and tell him to sign the waver... oh right, he can't read... or write...

No I don't support the person who kicks their dog every morning, or the person who neglects to feed the pet relying on them for food. I don't support that, that is animal cruelty.

I do however support the scientist who researches the cure to cancer and such and is using an animal for testing... sorry, but if that's going to help find the cure for cancer... so be it.
Yes LPS I understand where you are coming from, but its not "eating animals" that I have a problem with, I mean come on if some humans didnt eat animals than they would get overpopulated like we already are, I mean I choose that as soon as I am 18 I am becoming a vegan but that doesnt mean everyone in the world has too, but the point is its not that I care about the eating part, its the way we have of doing it, I think they should all be organic chickens/cows/pigs, not cooped up in tiny cages with 40 others inside, or proded with electric rods everytime a human walks by just b/c they want to get some kicks, that is what i have a problem with, and thats what I as well as other animal rights activists are striving to change.

LadyPSerenity
07-04-2005, 10:53 AM
No that isn't what they are striving to change, they are striving to change the fact animals are used by humans at all.

So you're becoming a vegan so you can be unhealthy? I fail to see the logic in that.

Tell me what's the chicken's life? Walk around eat some grain... sleep... lay some eggs... riiight they're doing lots for our society.
Okay lets let them roam free and have to hunt them... Let's make our job ten times harder so the chicken can eat grain elsewhere... ? and sleep... and lay some eggs. Right... failing to see logic.

Blood Metal Derangement
07-04-2005, 04:21 PM
I for one am not an animal activist or what ever, I am a very far cry from being a vegan as well.Yes I do eat the flesh of many thing's, as well as things from all the other food groups.I love steak,deer and all sorts of thing's.ppl do tend to forget that evan for as intelligent as we as humans are, we are still an animal ourselves.We have primal instincts, all the emotions that animals have as well.Territorial ect.

I am very much agenst animal cruelty though, i've been bashed for what I am about to say many times but I will keep stating this opinion because I belive in it wholehartedly.Humans are no more importaint than animals in truth, without the animals there would be no ppl, but without ppl there would be animals.One day we will all be gone, as nothing lasts forever.But for as long as we are......it is our responsibility to safeguard not onley our future but the future of things around us.

We should have a sense of nobility about us about being at "the top of the food chain" and we should I think stamp out those who do senseless thing's like the example I gave above in my last post.I think that they have some sort of problem with their mental state of mind, and should be held fully accountable for their actions and be charged with the taking or complication of A LIFE in general human or not.Anything that dose not serve good purpose,offers nothing benificial to themselves or the public should be regulated and put to a stop.

Well now I can imagen......this that i've added may give a few quite some things to discuss.

LadyPSerenity
07-04-2005, 08:05 PM
Actually not much to discuss off of that, other than you regurgitated the very same things that have been said over and over again without actually saying anything.

So are you against all Animal testing? Are you only against senseless violence on pets? Perhaps on farm animals? Perhaps you're against violence in general? What's that include though.

Does that include the hunter who hunts the deer and shoots him twice because the first shot didn't kill the deer?

Now answer that, and perhaps you'll have made an opinion and not a vague statement of regurgitated information.

Janus Silverlock
07-05-2005, 03:32 PM
Yes LPS I understand where you are coming from, but its not "eating animals" that I have a problem with, I mean come on if some humans didnt eat animals than they would get overpopulated like we already are, I mean I choose that as soon as I am 18 I am becoming a vegan but that doesnt mean everyone in the world has too, but the point is its not that I care about the eating part, its the way we have of doing it, I think they should all be organic chickens/cows/pigs, not cooped up in tiny cages with 40 others inside, or proded with electric rods everytime a human walks by just b/c they want to get some kicks, that is what i have a problem with, and thats what I as well as other animal rights activists are striving to change.
First off... We'll see about you becoming a "vegan" darling. I refuse to let you eat unhealthy. Protein is a very important part of the human diet, and eating peanuts and beans and all that stuff... blech. as your only source of protein? disgusting. You know you like to eat meat. i've seen you eat it many times. I won't let you be one of those people that doesn't get the proper nutrition because you think that somehow you not eating meat is going to change anything. because... i'm sorry to say it, hun, but it's not going to change a thing. except the fact that your muscles might atrophy and you might need to be hospitalized after awhile because of lack of protein. *sigh* I love you, and i don't want to see you hurting like that. alright... time to spell this out to EVERYONE reading this post and watching this thread... this is how things are...

Humans = Rulers of the Earth.
Animals = Helpers of the rulers of the Earth.

Animals are here to help us. that is their purpose. if we can't find any purpose for the animal other than for food, that becomes it's purpose. Animals were put here for the purpose of being our companions, to help us with our physical work, and for our food. they weren't exactly put here for us to keep them in zoos... or for our entertainment of any kind. But, i won't say anything about being "against zoos" because i'm not. END of story. Animals are here for our purposes.

scarletbeauty
07-05-2005, 03:39 PM
u disgust me why would any one ever wanna treat a animal like that i am appaled that u even made a thread for it dont expect me to sit back and be okay with it

Princess Minako
07-05-2005, 03:55 PM
as for being a vegan, do you realize that horses eat grass and are vegetarians, they also have whats called a rumen. This is a "sack" that contains bacteria to break down the chlorophyllic plants more and allows them to get the nutrients out. We do not have any such organ. We get very minimal nutrition from chlorophyllic plants. So much so that we dont' even digest lettuce. Our stomachs and acids are made to break down animo acid based proteins, like the ones found in meat. You would have to eat MASSIVE amounts of legumes to even attempt to get the amount of amino acids and proteins that you would get in one serving of meat. You HAVE to eat meat to replensh the amino acids that you expend during the day just with daily activities. The most healthy people one earth eat meat, we were made physiologically to eat and digest meat not plants. Granted we do get some nutritional value from plants and fruits, but no where near what we need to survive as healthy functional humans.

The Goddess has Spoken

Eris
07-05-2005, 06:08 PM
Humans = Rulers of the Earth.
Animals = Helpers of the rulers of the Earth.

Animals are here to help us. that is their purpose. if we can't find any purpose for the animal other than for food, that becomes it's purpose. Animals were put here for the purpose of being our companions, to help us with our physical work, and for our food. they weren't exactly put here for us to keep them in zoos... or for our entertainment of any kind. But, i won't say anything about being "against zoos" because i'm not. END of story. Animals are here for our purposes.

Animals are here to help us? Really? I missed that memo alright. Who sent them? And why aren't they helping me clean my room? I'm gonna have a serious talk with my cat about that.

Seriously though: Animals were put here for our purposes? Where did you get that absurd idea?

scarletbeauty
07-05-2005, 06:32 PM
its not right to abuise animals
i understand there used for food and economical product but why treat them like scum they have felling too i do not agree with some state acts in excepting abuise to these animals .
they r living things like u and me and they feel pain to this violence must stop

evil killer
07-05-2005, 07:15 PM
It's sad what animals go through. It makes me wonder why people can live after what they did to these animals.

Atailpha Wolffe
07-05-2005, 09:18 PM
I really did not even have to post before I was able to make my voice known. Animal cruelty is against my religion. "Harm None." It infuriates me when I hear of animal cruelty. I think of the possibilty that it could be my darling little kitty, and it makes me sick. I cry over the death of her sister from kidney failure nearly five years after still, so one might understand what I would feel over animal cruelty. Those who are cruel to animals should be skinned alive; harmed worse than the animal they hurt for thinking they are better than a fellow living creature. No human is better than nature and Mother Natures creations. I know the God and Goddess frown upon animal cruelties as much as do.

Himura Enishi
07-05-2005, 09:34 PM
as long as steak retains its glorious taste, i dont care

Blood Metal Derangement
07-06-2005, 12:02 AM
Actually not much to discuss off of that, other than you regurgitated the very same things that have been said over and over again without actually saying anything.

So are you against all Animal testing? Are you only against senseless violence on pets? Perhaps on farm animals? Perhaps you're against violence in general? What's that include though.

Does that include the hunter who hunts the deer and shoots him twice because the first shot didn't kill the deer?

Now answer that, and perhaps you'll have made an opinion and not a vague statement of regurgitated information.
__________________
Well for one did I say animal testing? Anything about hunting? Farm animals? And by far I am not agenst violence in general.....
My first statement told of a guy I know and his actions.......My embodyment of two posts were centerd around that......ummm so maby it was about that humm? In any case I don't care much for overly anylittical ppl, and dose my mis-spelling of words bother you as well??
Regurgitate.....
And anyway what do you care.......it's not like I care what you say about my statement I got it across anyway.Thank's for the response though, it gave me a little of something to do anyway.I like your wit btw;)

LadyPSerenity
07-06-2005, 08:19 AM
Well for one did I say animal testing? Anything about hunting? Farm animals? And by far I am not agenst violence in general.....
My first statement told of a guy I know and his actions.......My embodyment of two posts were centerd around that......ummm so maby it was about that humm? In any case I don't care much for overly anylittical ppl, and dose my mis-spelling of words bother you as well??
Regurgitate.....
And anyway what do you care.......it's not like I care what you say about my statement I got it across anyway.Thank's for the response though, it gave me a little of something to do anyway.I like your wit btw;)
Do you even know what you said? I don't think you do.

Your spelling is a hinderance, but at the same time it's impossible to read, though your last sentance makes no sense. Unless you mean my comments in regards to the things you've stated in your posts.

Once again you've tossed up the same so called 'facts' and gave nothing in support of what you say.
What do I care? I care that the posts are invalid and your posting for nothing more than to put words on a screen and to seem important when in reality you're truly saying nothing.

In fact the only people I've seen really say something is Sir Auron, Princess Minako, Mutsumi that's arguing her point... Oh and our newcomer to the thread, Atailpha Wolffe.
Could have missed people I really only skimmed through the topic while looking at the posts of everyone going "omg omg animals desrve da live!#@!$!!" Meanwhile they're sitting back tonight and enjoying their meal tonight, likely chopping down on some pork, chicken, steak or hamburger as 90% of meals are made of them.


As for Atailpha Wolffe, I understand the Wiccan Rede "As ye harm none, do what ye will." Yes... very interesting outlook on it...(I couldn't spell the word I wanted to say ;_; ) ((For a period of time I was exploring the religion))
Do you eat meat? Do you wear Cotton, fur, leather?
Not really trying to argue just trying to see which type of animal creulty you're speaking of.
Is it not that the harm done shall come back on the harmer by the power of three? And is it not up to fate for a situation as such to be handled? Skinning them alive and such isn't exactly harming none?
What kind of animal cruelty are you truly speaking out against? Is it the beating of dogs and cats... or is it the slaying of animals for food, the testing for medical advancement?
Er... once again not trying to fight, just trying to get your views a little more clearly.

I've left the Mutsumi issue alone because Mutsumi you're one of those people who needs to walk outside and open their eyes. Becoming a vegan just off the bat isn't going to happen, you'll last likely no longer than my friend.
Better not eat the fries at McDonalds they're cooked in Animal Fat.
Do some research before you dive head first into "oh noes save the animals@!!!@!@@#"
Because I garentee you vegan isn't the solution. Once again not touching the rest of the issue as it seems you've no care to read what we type in response as I noticed you ignored half of my points the last time =P

Corin Trueheart
07-06-2005, 10:35 AM
Okay, I guess this is my first reply, so let's see...

You really can't be angry about the drug-testing and experiments on humans. I mean, would you like to volunteer for potentially lethal drugs? I know I would not. And, animals are just animals. I mean, sure, it's wrong to torture a living thing, just kill the animal and then peel off its skin or whatever.

We need animals to survive. And also, we need them to give us our daily pleasures. We need them for warmth, food, and for entertainment. Yes, there are sadistic people out there, but most of us are not. And yes, the act of killing an animal does seem cruel, but hey, we HAVE to kill the animals.

Janus Silverlock
07-06-2005, 03:58 PM
I really did not even have to post before I was able to make my voice known. Animal cruelty is against my religion. "Harm None." It infuriates me when I hear of animal cruelty. I think of the possibilty that it could be my darling little kitty, and it makes me sick. I cry over the death of her sister from kidney failure nearly five years after still, so one might understand what I would feel over animal cruelty. Those who are cruel to animals should be skinned alive; harmed worse than the animal they hurt for thinking they are better than a fellow living creature. No human is better than nature and Mother Natures creations. I know the God and Goddess frown upon animal cruelties as much as do.Okay... I'm trying to understand this... SO.. your whole saying is "Harm none" but then later in your post... you suggest that anyone who hurts an animal should be harmed worse than the animal was? that sounds more like "an eye for an eye" rather than "Harm NONE". *sigh* I'm trying to get this across to you all... Animals, as incredible beatiful some of them are... and as glorious members of nature... They are STILL animals. non-sentient beings. they lack the levels of intelligence to understand the difference between what is right and what is wrong. you think the animals REALLY care when people try to do these things they do to "protect" the animals? the animals don't care. all they want is the basic needs of survival. food and shelter. that's about it. they don't care WHERE it is, or even most of the time what the food is. as long as they get it. I hope I have made a point. ~_~ it doesn't appear to be getting through to many of you yet, though.

Nineteenth
07-06-2005, 11:05 PM
The fastest way to solve every animal problem is to toss as many people into a giant blender and hit frappe then feed them to the animals and those who need food.

Look! I've solved World hunger AND overpopulation at the same time AGAIN!

Problem solved, everyone is happy; Except the ones being minced.
Yet, those blasted cows are still planning the overthrow of the human race. The dogs are in on it as well. Once we are nice and comfy, they will turn against us and we will be the ones to be promptly slaughtered for their survival.


In a shorter way, we do what we have to. We're the human race, don't you just love us?

Atailpha Wolffe
07-06-2005, 11:12 PM
Its a figure of speech darlin'. :) . You can believe what you want however, as you are entitled to. My heart tells me that animals are just like four-legged, uneducated, and furry human beings. I follow my heart. And that is what I will continue to. And there are some animals that want more than basic needs of survival. That is what makes most of them, "intelligent" in humans eyes, or "domestic." By saying that animals are nonsentient beings, is like saying there is no life on Mars, and that the moon is inhabitable. These are things that may in time amy be proven otherwise in time. All things happen in time in some way. I am not arguing with you or saying your wrong, but I do wish to point out how it is a possibility you are wrong. For all we know you could be right. Or for all we know I could be right. But the fact that we don't makes it the opinion. You have yours, I have mine. And that is what this post and topic respects.
Blessed Be!


Okay... I'm trying to understand this... SO.. your whole saying is "Harm none" but then later in your post... you suggest that anyone who hurts an animal should be harmed worse than the animal was? that sounds more like "an eye for an eye" rather than "Harm NONE". *sigh* I'm trying to get this across to you all... Animals, as incredible beatiful some of them are... and as glorious members of nature... They are STILL animals. non-sentient beings. they lack the levels of intelligence to understand the difference between what is right and what is wrong. you think the animals REALLY care when people try to do these things they do to "protect" the animals? the animals don't care. all they want is the basic needs of survival. food and shelter. that's about it. they don't care WHERE it is, or even most of the time what the food is. as long as they get it. I hope I have made a point. ~_~ it doesn't appear to be getting through to many of you yet, though.

飛竜
07-06-2005, 11:34 PM
Oh gosh....

Oh the horror.

What happen to those endangered species?

They were turned into clothes or something like food... -_-;;

I felt pity for the animals.

Kaitou Ace
07-07-2005, 12:35 AM
Its a figure of speech darlin'. :) . You can believe what you want however, as you are entitled to. My heart tells me that animals are just like four-legged, uneducated, and furry human beings. I follow my heart. And that is what I will continue to. And there are some animals that want more than basic needs of survival. That is what makes most of them, "intelligent" in humans eyes, or "domestic." By saying that animals are nonsentient beings, is like saying there is no life on Mars, and that the moon is inhabitable. These are things that may in time amy be proven otherwise in time. All things happen in time in some way. I am not arguing with you or saying your wrong, but I do wish to point out how it is a possibility you are wrong. For all we know you could be right. Or for all we know I could be right. But the fact that we don't makes it the opinion. You have yours, I have mine. And that is what this post and topic respects.
Blessed Be!

ow ow ow.. that hurts my brain >_<
You are equating your beliefs with things that can be proven by empirical evidence, and deciding that they are about equaly likely to be true?
We've been on the moon. We know it's not inhabitable in it's current state. No amount of belief will let you take off the space-suit on the moon and survive.
We've sent robots to Mars also. There seems to be a 99% chance of there not being life there, but we can say that from research and evidence, and you can't equate it to your random guesses.
Animals aren't furry human beings. They have their own brand of intelligence to be sure, and natural adaptation, but that is not a show of intelligence, and is very different from human intelligence. Certanly some animals are smarter then others, but they are only "smart" in areas that have direct real-world impact.
Animals are incapable of abstraction levels from the here and now.
They are not moral certanly. Lions, upon taking over a pard, kill all cubs born from the previous alpha male. There has not been an instance of the lion not going through with it. It's instinctual, and insures that his progeny get priority, but one would think that any moral creature would at some point stop and think it over. Sharks don't feel any remorse after snacking on a scuba-diver other then whether they should have gone after the other one.
Animal family groups (pards, prides, packs, etc) never cooperate with other groups, even if it would benefit them both. Other then things that have to do with direct survival, or propagation of species, animals don't really exhibit any signs of sentience.
Even what we see in the domestic animals, is more of evolution at work, preserving the traits that served the species well. Canines developed along two tracks. Dogs, that get along with humans, where traits that humans respond to take priority, and wolves, that are pack hunting animals. Puppies of dogs are almost always capable of picking up on human hints to find food instinctualy, whereas wolf puppies are incapable of it without training. This indicates that it is instinctual, and not stemming from sentience.

No one really advocates beating seal pups with clubs. And yes, more regulation is needed for humane treatment of livestock and poultry. But a life of an animal, or animals can not, and does not outweight a human life.
When it comes to animals being used in research that will save, or better human lives, or for food, I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. Sure, you don't need to test cosmetics. But medicine? Absolutely. Animal testing tends to be the fastest method, and is quite a good indicator of whether the procedure will work.
Human bodies also require the protiens from meat to survive, and there have been cases of people being prosecuted for child endangerment for feeding their babys vegan diets, causing severe, life endangering malnutrition. It is the height of stupidity to equate human life with animals, and not even the animals would agree.

飛竜
07-07-2005, 12:53 AM
ow ow ow.. that hurts my brain >_<
You are equating your beliefs with things that can be proven by empirical evidence, and deciding that they are about equaly likely to be true?
We've been on the moon. We know it's not inhabitable in it's current state. No amount of belief will let you take off the space-suit on the moon and survive.
We've sent robots to Mars also. There seems to be a 99% chance of there not being life there, but we can say that from research and evidence, and you can't equate it to your random guesses.
Animals aren't furry human beings. They have their own brand of intelligence to be sure, and natural adaptation, but that is not a show of intelligence, and is very different from human intelligence. Certanly some animals are smarter then others, but they are only "smart" in areas that have direct real-world impact.
Animals are incapable of abstraction levels from the here and now.
They are not moral certanly. Lions, upon taking over a pard, kill all cubs born from the previous alpha male. There has not been an instance of the lion not going through with it. It's instinctual, and insures that his progeny get priority, but one would think that any moral creature would at some point stop and think it over. Sharks don't feel any remorse after snacking on a scuba-diver other then whether they should have gone after the other one.
Animal family groups (pards, prides, packs, etc) never cooperate with other groups, even if it would benefit them both. Other then things that have to do with direct survival, or propagation of species, animals don't really exhibit any signs of sentience.
Even what we see in the domestic animals, is more of evolution at work, preserving the traits that served the species well. Canines developed along two tracks. Dogs, that get along with humans, where traits that humans respond to take priority, and wolves, that are pack hunting animals. Puppies of dogs are almost always capable of picking up on human hints to find food instinctualy, whereas wolf puppies are incapable of it without training. This indicates that it is instinctual, and not stemming from sentience.

No one really advocates beating seal pups with clubs. And yes, more regulation is needed for humane treatment of livestock and poultry. But a life of an animal, or animals can not, and does not outweight a human life.
When it comes to animals being used in research that will save, or better human lives, or for food, I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. Sure, you don't need to test cosmetics. But medicine? Absolutely. Animal testing tends to be the fastest method, and is quite a good indicator of whether the procedure will work.
Human bodies also require the protiens from meat to survive, and there have been cases of people being prosecuted for child endangerment for feeding their babys vegan diets, causing severe, life endangering malnutrition. It is the height of stupidity to equate human life with animals, and not even the animals would agree.
*nods*

You have a point there of your opinion, sir.

Anna-san
07-07-2005, 01:07 AM
I've seen much worse than the links given... not only on web but oso on tv. They show things abt wat those poachers do. I always cry after watching n have a bad mood for the rest of the day. Thank God there are organizations to save the animals

celebix2
08-18-2005, 07:27 PM
:banghead: Terrible thing dont understand wy some human are so :censored: :curses:
Someone try this side www.bonsaikitten.com/bkmethod.html its more evil in this world:help2:

Marie2007
08-18-2005, 07:33 PM
i have seen much worse as well after all i do work at an animal shelter/hospital

-Shizu-
08-18-2005, 07:48 PM
poor little animals. :(

Mira Kaiba
08-18-2005, 07:56 PM
I think that we can kill animals for foodl, I mean, I eat cow, fish, and chicken, (but that's all) but I do NOT think that people shoud be mistreating or killing them in inhumane ways. Animals have nerves, and their lives DO matter. We would feel just as much pain as they do if we were treated that way (heaven forbid). I do not think that animals should be harmed, and I don't believe that we should kill them just because we can.

Moon Helix Avatar
08-18-2005, 08:02 PM
I really do not want to be a part of this subject, as it disturbs me deeply.I treat animals as equals in life, their lives are just as importaint as ours.Anyone thinking differntly....well just has a problem.I hate it that ppl think their higher than everything else, humans are bad in more ways than they are good.They have the ability to do great good, yet they destroy and claim ignorance.
:<_<:

LadyPSerenity
08-18-2005, 09:18 PM
I really do not want to be a part of this subject, as it disturbs me deeply.Then why reply at all?



I treat animals as equals in life, their lives are just as importaint as ours.Their lives are important yes, but their lives are as supplements to ours. If you failed to realize this, you need to go back to school and learn about the ways of the world.
Everything on the planet has a purpose, and find me the purpose of a chicken other than food for us.
In means of Animal Testing, well sorry but if testing on an Ape is going to further society then bye bye Ape.



Anyone thinking differntly....well just has a problem.I don't have a problem, I have a sense of realism and understand of the food chain as well as the way the world works.
We die, we fertalize the ground and bugs eat us. So really it just goes around. Watch the Lion King, the Circle of Life is very real as we're at the top of the food chain we eat what's below us. As they would eat what's below them. Don't think a shark thinks twice about about the fish he's going to eat or what he's going to do to it before eating it. It's called Primal instinct.



I hate it that ppl think their higher than everything else, humans are bad in more ways than they are good.Ever hear of survival of the fittest. We're the fittest at the moment and thus we're surviving. Do I think because I'm at the top of the food chain I have the right to kick my dog. No. That's animal cruelty. Do I have the right to eat chicken, pork, lamb or such, yea it's part of being at the top.
Do I have the right to torture animal's. No.
Want to talk about human's being bad... we'll talk about the fact we're the only species that blantantly and cold bloodily will murder our own kin for no reason other than kicks.
Sure Lions kill each other to remain Alpha and such... whatever all that's about but we kill our own and complete strangers for no reason other than because we thought it'd be cool. That's where humans are bad.
But the fact we use animal's to test medical advancements doesn't make us bad, it makes us smart. Sorry... but it does.
If another species could do the same, they would.


They have the ability to do great good, yet they destroy and claim ignorance.
:<_<:They don't always claim ignorance they claim survival.
A woman kills her husband in order to survive, what she's done is evil but it's forgiven because it's the lesser of two evils.
Some sacrafices need to be made on the road to success.

Let's make this clear.
Torture = Bad
Medical Advancement Testing = Good
Food = Good

Sorry, but it's fact.

Edit - I blame Typo-itus The disease for my typing.

Regex
08-18-2005, 09:29 PM
:banghead: Terrible thing dont understand wy some human are so :censored: :curses:
Someone try this side www.bonsaikitten.com/bkmethod.html (http://www.bonsaikitten.com/bkmethod.html) its more evil in this world:help2:Just want to add in that this site is a joke. Perhaps in poor taste, but still intended as a joke..

(see:
http://hoaxbusters.ciac.org/HBStupids.shtml#bonsaikittens
http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/bonsai.asp
)

ROXAS of the 13 order
03-29-2006, 07:06 PM
i love animals and people should not be cruel 2 animeals because animals can be compaions and they r loyal i love dags and cats and all animals but u should treat animals with the same respect as you would give a human being they inhabit this earth to.

animeglobe
03-29-2006, 07:28 PM
if i wrote about what i think of animeal cruelty it'll be long but i think its selfish..just because some animals can't defend there self doesn't mean you gotta do that..argh..it makes me cry..when i see that

Sayoran
03-30-2006, 10:38 AM
The video was at times difficult to watch, it is sick the how some animals in the world are treated.

But remember that was a propaganda film none the less, you must be careful as you watch it; there was much more opinon involved than actual fact. Most cattle and pigs for example are slaughtered humanely, with a simple stun gun to the head, and they die instantly.

I do not deny such cruel things go on but I am sure it's not as widespread as the film suggests, there are many honest and good farmers out there, defiantley many more than cruel.

I believe the governments should work better to ensure all meat on the market has be produced in a humane way, so farms such as the one seen in the film do not continue.

So please, don't let this bias propaganda film turn you vegetarian - Eating meat doesn't make you evil, but the people who are cruel to animals are - and must be stopped.

*phew* Thanks people!
Sayoran :cool:

sophie
03-30-2006, 11:03 AM
hi i am new and i couldnt be bothered reading but i hate animal crulety it is mean and you wont like if you were getting picked on

lorie
03-30-2006, 12:45 PM
animal cruelty is is DISGUSTING
why would ppl want to be cruel to animals that is wrong! but most do it because they have a sad life some areas where they were not satisfied or were neglected from their parents etc. those kind of situations make me sad

mimichan1000
03-30-2006, 12:55 PM
yeah it's sad, horrid , gross. but people are cruel to people too. where are the advocates for them?

lorie
03-30-2006, 01:22 PM
i know child cruelty etc. that kind of stuff makes me mad :mad:
i feel to do something about it but i dont know what!!!

DeathBlade/13.666
03-30-2006, 05:06 PM
yeah it's sad, horrid , gross. but people are cruel to people too. where are the advocates for them? The advocates are there, it's just big business pwns them by lobbying and buying the governments.