France forbids vegetarian and vegan food in the schools

[SuXrys]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2011/oct/26/french-government-banning-vegetarianism-schools

http://saawinternational.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/french-ban-vegetarian-and-vegan-meals/

http://saawinternational.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/nicolas-sarkozy-vs-mexico.jpg?w=150&h=107 It is banned!


A governmental order issued on October 2, 2011 has determined that all meals served in school canteens in France must contain animal products, and that meat and fish will be served at a certain minimum frequency. This implies that by law from now on no vegetarian can eat at any public or private school in France.
* What do you think? Is it okey or just crazy?

[Xian Jaguar]

that's just insane

[Saeriel]

Yar, that's silly. To each their own, and all that... If it's not effecting people negatively, or at all - besides those who choose to purchase it - why ban it *shrug*

It seems a poor choice, considering this is negatively effecting people more than providing vegetarian food would.

Though I totally approve a no-vegetable approach to life :D

[catie]

How stupid. What will the vegan's do? Are they trying to make children go to weight loss camps.

[-GAZKUL-]

Ahhh those dumb french, now the only real competition with yon Americans for the "Dumbest Government Alive" award...... oh wait we've got that Tory prick in...... i seem to have lost my own argument :(

[blueangel06661]

I don't know about you, but every school I've been to except my hipster art school of a college didn't really cater to the vegans. If you were vegan you simply did not eat whatever entre with meat/fish was served and choose another option.. It's not like the entire menu has meat etc. in there.. It's not like they are starving anyone..

.... I mean it's quite impossible to ban someone who is vegan from eating something in the cafe... I can understand not serving tofu but that's as far as I see this going.

[Saeriel]

It says that by law all the food needs to have animal product in it, though, which as far as I know is against vegan... law. xD. Couldn't think of a better phrasing.

[blueangel06661]

So you're going to put animal product in my salad, cereal, fruit cup, pasta, mac n cheese?

Looking at the lunch menu this month for my old school. Pretty much every entre is meat related.. Meh.. Bring your on lunch... >.> They can't kick you out for eating a banana and a BP&J sandwich rather than eating chicken nuggets.

[AnimeFrost]

What? France forbids vegetables? Thats kind of pointless because vegetables are food. I wonder how much the obesity rate will go up this year.

[animeyay]

omg what an unconstitutional government overreach! get the Tea-Partiers, pitch forks, and torches!

oh wait, this is happening in France, not in the US... silly France, what were you thinking? XD

[Acnologia]

What? France forbids vegetables? Thats kind of pointless because vegetables are food. I wonder how much the obesity rate will go up this year.

You won't get obese just because you eat food with meat in it. They didn't ban vegetables over all, they are just serving foods with meat in them (Like a chicken Caesar salad, or maybe steak and veges, which are both OK)

An this ban was only on the food served, they didn't mention any restrictions on food you bring. People could bring a salad to eat or something and it would save them money too.

[Random User]

They needed somewhere to put all those excess frog legs.

Also, this is pretty much on the same level of dumb as Congress declaring pizza an official vegetable. I don't see what the big deal is with having non-meat products in school lunches.

[AnimeFrost]

You won't get obese just because you eat food with meat in it. They didn't ban vegetables over all, they are just serving foods with meat in them (Like a chicken Caesar salad, or maybe steak and veges, which are both OK)

An this ban was only on the food served, they didn't mention any restrictions on food you bring. People could bring a salad to eat or something and it would save them money too.Ahh I misunderstood then. Thats a good thing then i guess.

[marvelangga]

They won't serve leek anymore? T^T

[SuXrys]

Looking at the lunch menu this month for my old school. Pretty much every entre is meat related.. Meh.. Bring your on lunch... >.> They can't kick you out for eating a banana and a BP&J sandwich rather than eating chicken nuggets.

Well you could still bring your own lunches, I agree on that. But still this ban, feels to me anyway, like a way to punish those who are vegeterian/vegans - since they are already paying for the food in the schools [It's included in the taxes]. So now it's like those who doesn't eat animal products are forced [or they are if they don't want to 'change their ways'] to pay x2.


I hope the grammar is better now after the edit... but im still very very tired. >___>





An this ban was only on the food served, they didn't mention any restrictions on food you bring. People could bring a salad to eat or something and it would save them money too.

What do you mean?




-----------------------------------------------
Forgot to write this before to your Blue X___X


I don't know about you, but every school I've been to except my hipster art school of a college didn't really cater to the vegans. If you were vegan you simply did not eat whatever entre with meat/fish was served and choose another option.. It's not like the entire menu has meat etc. in there.. It's not like they are starving anyone..

.... I mean it's quite impossible to ban someone who is vegan from eating something in the cafe... I can understand not serving tofu but that's as far as I see this going.

Also, off topic but im curious ~, is it common in the states? I mean that they don't do any 'special food' for those who craves it? I have grow up with that the schools have to make special foods to those who 'needs it'. [vegeterians/vegans, jews, muslims exc - but then only them could take it], so for me what you just wrote sounds a little weird. But that is perhaps since we pay for it in the taxes here aswell.... I don't know.

[Ryuu No Kage]

Wow to bad for my vegan classmate if he was in france but my classmate is a complete asshole so I don't care bout him

[Acnologia]

Save the students who bring their lunches money xD I forgot to specify.

[Thefringedninja]

You won't get obese just because you eat food with meat in it. They didn't ban vegetables over all, they are just serving foods with meat in them (Like a chicken Caesar salad, or maybe steak and veges, which are both OK)

An this ban was only on the food served, they didn't mention any restrictions on food you bring. People could bring a salad to eat or something and it would save them money too.

I'm sorry, but this is pure discrimination! Why should they HAVE to bring in their own lunch? They should have an option, it's just common sense!
Plus, surely not all meat eaters would want to eat meat for every meal, so it would encourage more meat eaters to eat lower fat, more eco-friendly food which doesn't involve the cruelty of intensive farming.

[SuXrys]

Save the students who bring their lunches money xD I forgot to specify.
I don't see how it would save them money, since they are already paying for the school lunches threw the taxes.

[Datenshi]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Rebellion_of_1857.

The discussion seems to be focused on vegetarianism as a lifestyle choice, but I have to wonder if there is a religious element involved here that is missing from the coverage. Especially with France being somewhat notorious in recent memory for the controversy regarding displays of worship in public schools. But anyhow.

In my opinion, what you choose (or not choose) to consume through your mouth daily constitutes one of the most guttural, deep-rooted and intimate aspects of our lives, and hence something that we should have a degree of control over (within bounds of reason of course; a parent should still be able to tell his children to eat her peas). I enjoy horse meat because I've grown up in a culture where it's common for horses to be on the menu, but I feel slightly nauseated at the thought of eating dog meat. I imagine a culture that feels somewhat differently about horses (or dogs) would have a drastically different reaction.

Also, although one can argue that people who decline meat can opt out, the important issue here seems to be one of tolerance. The question is whether people of diverse lifestyles and creeds feel that their public institutions accommodate their particular ways of life without dictating one as less legitimate than another.

[Thefringedninja]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Rebellion_of_1857.

The discussion seems to be focused on vegetarianism as a lifestyle choice, but I have to wonder if there is a religious element involved here that is missing from the coverage. Especially with France being somewhat notorious in recent memory for the controversy regarding displays of worship in public schools. But anyhow.

In my opinion, what you choose (or not choose) to consume through your mouth daily constitutes one of the most guttural, deep-rooted and intimate aspects of our lives, and hence something that we should have a degree of control over (within bounds of reason of course; a parent should still be able to tell his children to eat her peas). I enjoy horse meat because I've grown up in a culture where it's common for horses to be on the menu, but I feel slightly nauseated at the thought of eating dog meat. I imagine a culture that feels somewhat differently about horses (or dogs) would have a drastically different reaction.

Also, although one can argue that people who decline meat can opt out, the important issue here seems to be one of tolerance. The question is whether people of diverse lifestyles and creeds feel that their public institutions accommodate their particular ways of life without dictating one as less legitimate than another.

I totally agree with you! What people choose to eat is their decision...I'm a veggie, but I'd never dream of forcing meat-eaters to give up! So why are the French allowed to enforce a culture where meat-eating is almost dictated in schools?

[Yuuchun]

Honestly~ Don't they have bigger fish to fry? Oh you know that thing called the world recession that is going on and the fact that basically a lot of countries in Europe are bankrupt? Government shouldn't be sticking their noses on lifestyles that doesn't even negatively impact anything.

[Infinita]

Sometimes, I greatly wonder about the french in Europe and what they are thinking...(I am french Canadian) I can kinda see where they are coming from since they are concerned about kids receiving the right amount of minerals, iron, potassium, calcium, all those vitamins that everyone needs for daily living and the amount of energy food gives for regular function.

However, I don't believe the school system should limit those two groups to the point of banning them from having to chose cafeteria food. They could have at least provided some substitute or other option without meat in it. Or, if the law continues, prepare your own lunch to bring to school. (My school didn't have a cafeteria. We had to bring our own lunch) :3

[stocksatron]

the french do stuff like this all the time, they prevent expression of religion in public too

[Eris]

they prevent expression of religion in public too


What, exactly is the problem with this again?

[Anoleis]

A violation of rights: "You must eat what we give you. No exceptions."

What they're doing: "We will not provide a meal that fulfills vegan or vegetarian dietary habits."

If some one is so involved in their morally superior fantasy, they can bring their own food.


What, exactly is the problem with this again?
Depends. If they prohibit religious stuffs to be used in public affairs, then nothing. If they arrest people for saying "god bless you"(or the french equivalent) when someone sneezes, then I think they're being a little pedantic.

[Samuru]

What, exactly is the problem with this again?
Nothing at all. Someone's eating habits are not related in any kind, or even comparable to, religion. Anyway, it's pretty silly to force someone to eat meat, or anything that contains animal products. This could mean that not everything has meat inside it, but something else like dairy. I hope this law will be revised when the French government discovers students are not going to be happy with this.

[Jasanime]

WTF!? I cannot believe this. Look at ANY recent studies on nutrition and it's impact on our health. Animal products are linked to diabetes, heart disease, cancer, obesity and more. It's not rocket science. Japanese are the healthiest, longest living race on the planet. Their diet? Mostly grains, veggies and soy. Westerners are the fattest, unhealthiest ppl, they eat loads of meat, eggs and dairy, all high in fat and full of antibiotics, steroids and all sorts of other nasties I can't pronounce.

The bottom line: feeding children large amounts of animal products = poisoning them with bad foods and teaching them unhealthy habits which can lead to disease.

[Samuru]

WTF!? I cannot believe this. Look at ANY recent studies on nutrition and it's impact on our health. Animal products are linked to diabetes, heart disease, cancer, obesity and more. It's not rocket science. Japanese are the healthiest, longest living race on the planet. Their diet? Mostly grains, veggies and soy. Westerners are the fattest, unhealthiest ppl, they eat loads of meat, eggs and dairy, all high in fat and full of antibiotics, steroids and all sorts of other nasties I can't pronounce.

The bottom line: feeding children large amounts of animal products = poisoning them with bad foods and teaching them unhealthy habits which can lead to disease.
Meat does not necessarily need to be unhealthy, but as the French government wants to add animal products to ALL sold wares in schools, there's gonna be a lack of diversity, which, in the long run, causes students to be less able to pay attention, not even starting about the denial of their psychical condition.

[Anoleis]

Animal products Over consumption has been linked to diabetes, heart disease, cancer, obesity and more.
Fixed


Japanese are the healthiest, longest living race on the planet. Their diet? Mostly grains, veggies and soy.
You've forgotten fish. The Japanese consume a large quantity of fish.


Westerners are the fattest, unhealthiest ppl, they eat loads of meat, eggs and dairy, all high in fat and full of antibiotics, steroids and all sorts of other nasties I can't pronounce.
Lol stereotypes.


The bottom line: feeding children large amounts of animal products = poisoning them with bad foods and teaching them unhealthy habits which can lead to disease.
But they're not telling kids to eat two pounds of ground beef every meal. I can't believe you've already sensationalized the story; that's some sort of record.


Meat does not necessarily need to be unhealthy, but as the French government wants to add animal products to ALL sold wares in schools, there's gonna be a lack of diversity, which, in the long run, causes students to be less able to pay attention, not even starting about the denial of their psychical condition.
What? Adding chicken to a sandwich and cheese to a salad isn't going to cause kids to become retarded.

[Jasanime]

Fixed


You've forgotten fish. The Japanese consume a large quantity of fish.
Yes they do, but fish contain large amounts of mercury not to mention the devastating effects over-fishing is having on our oceans.


Lol stereotypes.

No, it's just a fact. Longest life expectancy: Japan, Highest obesity rate: USA.


But they're not telling kids to eat two pounds of ground beef every meal. I can't believe you've already sensationalized the story; that's some sort of record.


What? Adding chicken to a sandwich and cheese to a salad isn't going to cause kids to become retarded.

Not retarded, I never used that word, but animal products are not healthy and are linked to western diseases. This is not opinion, it's just fact. I'm not here to argue either. Just to educate. Maybe do some research of your own before critisizing my statements? You may be surprised at what you find. A great place to start is "The China Study".

[blueangel06661]

Not retarded, I never used that word, but animal products are not healthy and are linked to western diseases. This is not opinion, it's just fact. I'm not here to argue either. Just to educate. Maybe do some research of your own before critisizing my statements? You may be surprised at what you find. A great place to start is "The China Study".

Yes but at the same time, not having animal products in your diet also decline your health in the long run... Just a fact....

Here you go kiddo


People who don't eat meat can, have and very well might obtain: sight problems, skin problems, blood diseases, mouth diseases, ulcers, fatigue is a big one, memory loss, depression (also a big one), rickets, osteomalacia, poor hair health, Osteoporosis, other bone problems (another big one), intestinal disorders and "easily offended" attitudes. Also from the related link below, it states that: "In an even more comprehensive British study involving nearly 8,000 subjects, a Cambridge University professor now says that children born to vegetarian mothers are up to five times more likely to be born with 'deformities' and other birth defects". The scientist leading the research told a Europe Intelligence Wire reporter that "there is a clear association between child deformities and vegetarianism, and this is a cause for concern."" If that doesn't spark some kind of concern for people especially women who neglect meat in their diet, I think you need a heart. Or some kids. Also, look at those teeth you have. Those pointy ones, yeah, incisors, those are there for a reason, to eat meat.


Your argument is sort of invalid since it can be thrown right back

[Samuru]

I thought that people knew that too much, or too less, from any possible vitamin, mineral or whatever, is generally bad for said consumer. My point in the previous post was, that with the increase of animal products in schools, the health of the students will gradually decline as they already consume enough animal products (and their minerals) during breakfast and dinner. This is easily remedied by having students bring their own lunch, like most usually do, daily.

[Jasanime]

Yes but at the same time, not having animal products in your diet also decline your health in the long run... Just a fact....

Here you go kiddo



Your argument is sort of invalid since it can be thrown right back

Sigh. I don't know why i'm bothering, but here you go:

http://www.waoy.org/26.html
http://www.vegsource.com/news/2009/11/the-comparative-anatomy-of-eating.html
http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/09/12/13120.aspx

I have not eaten meat for 14 yrs and never experieced a single one of those ailments (although I have meat-eating friends that have suffered some of those mentioned).
Trust me I have heard every argument for and against, and looked into both with an open mind. I believe in science, nothing else.

[blueangel06661]

Sigh. I don't know why i'm bothering, but here you go:

http://www.waoy.org/26.html
http://www.vegsource.com/news/2009/11/the-comparative-anatomy-of-eating.html
http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/09/12/13120.aspx

I have not eaten meat for 14 yrs and never experieced a single one of those ailments (although I have meat-eating friends that have suffered some of those mentioned).
Trust me I have heard every argument for and against, and looked into both with an open mind. I believe in science, nothing else.

Oh lookie biased sources!!! And one has a background of chicks... Why would I read something so unprofessional.. One is vegetarian, so biased.. The other one is a lie because I actually have osteoporosis ANNNNNNNNNNND it's because I don't drink milk and thus do not have enough calcium in my bones...

Come'on keep em coming, what other sources ya got??

[Jasanime]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1286537/
http://thechinastudy.com/
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102306407
http://vegetarian.about.com/od/vegetarianvegan101/f/fossilfuels.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_farming


Biased is a little unfair - the meat and dairy industry are worth millions, and have unbelievable marketing budgets. Unlike fruit and veg farmers...

[Anoleis]

Not retarded, I never used that word, but animal products are not healthy and are linked to western diseases. This is not opinion, it's just fact. I'm not here to argue either. Just to educate. Maybe do some research of your own before critisizing my statements? You may be surprised at what you find. A great place to start is "The China Study".


In sum, “The China Study” is a compelling collection of carefully chosen data. Unfortunately for both health seekers and the scientific community, Campbell appears to exclude relevant information when it indicts plant foods as causative of disease, or when it shows potential benefits for animal products.

Eat my Google-fu. http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/

[Jasanime]

The Angelic Anathema, The China study is just one of many. And try finding a single scientific study without a negative review somewhere....

Sorry I really am not here to argue. If any of you are genuinely interested in this topic and want to learn more with an open mind, I'll let you do that in your time. I thought I'd weigh in on this thread with what I have learned and experienced over the last 14 yrs (which I thought would count for more than 10 mins of googling) but I didn't expect such a nasty reaction.

Ciao.

[Anoleis]

The Angelic Anathema, The China study is just one of many. And try finding a single scientific study without a negative review somewhere....

Sorry I really am not here to argue. If any of you are genuinely interested in this topic and want to learn more with an open mind, I'll let you do that in your time. I thought I'd weigh in on this thread with what I have learned and experienced over the last 14 yrs (which I thought would count for more than 10 mins of googling) but I didn't expect such a nasty reaction.

Ciao.
Criticism isn't a nasty reaction. Classic hypersensitive vegan self victimization.

Not related, but still humorous.
http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzvdhcUUwo1qlrxk7o2_500.jpg
Also this
http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzvfynyXBl1qb5gkjo1_500.jpg

[Jacob's Ladder]

Someone has to eat all that escargot...

[Kaleohano]

for once...i like france! and thats a lot to hear from me. cuz i really hate those people. just a stain on this earth in my eyes. but this is good! vegetarianism is for the weak and deformed, and deformed weak. medium rare meat. i like to taste the animal last emotion. puts a smile on my face
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_KvLqA3jaFEw/SjQP6nO2NHI/AAAAAAAAAXU/T8ulUL3s6Uk/s320/fuck-vegetarians.jpg
http://pics.blameitonthevoices.com/042010/vegetarians.jpg
hahaha
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6013/ohwait.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/10/ohwait.jpg/)
BAAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

https://images.nonexiste.net/popular/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Challenge-Accepted.png

[SuXrys]

@The Angelic Anathema (http://www.animeforum.com/member.php?238244-The-Angelic-Anathema) Oh no that picture was just so wrong... >___<

[sataned]

GOOD! buck that playdoe food.it sucks.

[stocksatron]

What, exactly is the problem with this again?
what do you mean whats the problem with this? it prevents freedom of speech, isn't that important at all to you?

[blueangel06661]

what do you mean whats the problem with this? it prevents freedom of speech, isn't that important at all to you?

No it doesn't... Just because they don't offer you Tofu doesn't mean you can't bring it... I mean when I was in school, my school didn't offer me some twinkies... I'm on a strict twinkie diet!!! School not serving me my daily serving of twinkies is a violation of my freedom of speech...!!!!!

See how stupid that argument sounds when you replace it with twinkies...

[Eris]

what do you mean whats the problem with this? it prevents freedom of speech, isn't that important at all to you?

They ban conspicuous religious symbols (like crucifixes), not religious speech. I don't see how this is any more of a violation of your freedom to express yourself than the laws that require you to wear pants.

[stocksatron]

I was talking about religion not food

---------- Post added at 07:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:12 PM ----------

they ban the veil and turbans as well

[Anoleis]

they ban the veil and turbans as well
In 2010, a public debate arose and France passed a law that bans the wearing of full-face covering, including but not limited to burqas and niqābs, in public. The law was constitutionally cleared so that it will come into force in April 2011. That debate and ban are separate from the above-discussed debate on the hijab in public schools, in that the new law does not pertain to Islamic scarves but rather to their much rarer full-face versions among other full-face coverings (such as masks and balaclavas), and in that the new law applies to all citizens in public spaces regardless of religion or claimed tradition (and regardless of gender). (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_scarf_controversy_in_France)

[stocksatron]

fair play my friend

[Kaleohano]

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_scarf_controversy_in_France"will come into force in April 2011.[/URL]

did you miss a memo or something?

---------- Post added at 10:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 PM ----------


I was talking about religion not food

---------- Post added at 07:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:12 PM ----------

they ban the veil and turbans as well

francés image is steadily increasing with me

[stocksatron]

I think I'm going to stop posting in this thread, its quite hostile

[Anoleis]

did you miss a memo or something?
I can't tell if you're trying to be sarcastic, you're generally confused, or you just can't comprehend the point of my post.

[Kaleohano]

I can't tell if you're trying to be sarcastic, you're generally confused, or you just can't comprehend the point of my post.

you said "April 2011" in future tense. it is now march of 2012. so;
a. you didn't notice that this took effect about a year ago.
or b. you meant to write "April 2012."

just poking a little fun is all lol

[Saeriel]

you said "April 2011" in future tense. it is now march of 2012. so;
a. you didn't notice that this took effect about a year ago.
or b. you meant to write "April 2012."

just poking a little fun is all lol

Wasn't he referring to the comment regarding how the french also disallowed the wearing of turbans and such? It doesn't really matter when the thread article was posted, in that case, considering they don't regard the same subject...

As an edit, upon rereading it... Are you really nitpicking about the choice of future tense versus past tense o.0?

[Kaleohano]

As an edit, upon rereading it... Are you really nitpicking about the choice of future tense versus past tense o.0?

yyyeeeeeaaaa lol

[stocksatron]

moving back on to the topic, 7 - 11 percent of the uk population (which is similar to the french one) are vegetarians which is about 4 million people, and 23 percent are vegetarian or meat reducers, also there are some health disorders where people just don't have the choice to eat meat due to the chemical content in a lot of meat, and some have religious reasons preventing them from eating it (yes I know france has kind of banned that too)

[Anoleis]

I've nothing else to really add to the thread so...



you said "April 2011" in future tense. it is now march of 2012. so;
a. you didn't notice that this took effect about a year ago.
or b. you meant to write "April 2012."

just poking a little fun is all lol
It is a direct copy-paste from the Wiki article it was linked to. You can blame them for whatever mistakes they made.

[Wio]

What, exactly is the problem with this again?

People need to keep their controversial speech hidden in private, right?


France forbids vegetarian and vegan food in the schools

Are you like trying to be misleading as possible with the title?
Each meal must have some sort of meat in it. As long as the vegetarian avoids the part of the meal that has meat, they can have a vegetarian meal. How dependent are these kids on government meals anyway?

[stocksatron]

but does avoiding the meat leave them with a substantial meal?

[Wio]

That has nothing to do with banning vegetarian food. The point of ensuring that the students who eat meat can get some.

If the vegetarians aren't getting a substantial meal, then they have to either eat the animal product, or stop depending on central authority to distribute their food.

[stocksatron]

are school meals cheaper than a packed lunch?

[blueangel06661]

are school meals cheaper than a packed lunch?

Absolutely not... But if you're poor you can qualify for free lunch but it only comes with an entree and two sides and milk. You can't have more or less than that. I think just an order of chicken nuggets is like 2.00 for about 5 or so. A slice of pizza is 2.50. I forget how much a full meal was since I rarely got it. I only got what I wanted and that was it.

[Eris]

People need to keep their controversial speech hidden in private, right?

You're free to speak any religious message in France, you just can't wear overt religious symbols.

[stocksatron]

I thought he was talking about having to keep controversial speech hidden in the forum

[Wio]

You're free to speak any religious message in France, you just can't wear overt religious symbols.

Why? Who is the victim?

[stocksatron]

for some people wearing the veil etc is important because parts of the koran tell them that it is necessary, also to show that they are not equals with god, and to hide men who may find them sexually attractive

[Eris]

Why? Who is the victim?

Who is the victim of public nudity?

[stocksatron]

are you going to take this seriously?

[Anoleis]

Who is the victim of public nudity?
Hypersensitive people who think that testicles and chesticles are vulgar and disgusting, unless they belong to themselves.


are you going to take this seriously?
Why aren't you taking this seriously?

[stocksatron]

I'm trying to, this is a series issue in france

[Wio]

Who is the victim of public nudity?

There is no victim, so it really shouldn't be a crime.

Edit:
Perhaps some people would think they are a victim if they had to seen an ugly person they didn't want to see, or if their children had to see nude people. I don't think these count as a legitimate grievances to required government action.

Regardless, if you want to argue that there are victim-less crimes of expression that fall under obscenity or something like that, then you better have a pretty clear definition of obscenity and explanation of how religious symbols are obscene.

[DOOM!]

Yeah, you go France! You rock!
I love meat! And I hate meals that aren't complimented with EVERYTHING.

[Thefringedninja]

What, exactly is the problem with this again?

He's probably referring to the ban on the headscarves worn by muslim women. Which is wrong. Haven't you ever read the Human Rights Declaration?

[Hakoshi]

that sucks, for the vegans, as for vegetarians they'd just eggs eggs, and milk.. to go around that , unless it says "strictly MEAT" on it (not gonna read because I'm just not in the mood to read long worded paragraphs/texts...)
well, knowing this, they might do something to change it... unless they already did..

[Eris]

He's probably referring to the ban on the headscarves worn by muslim women. Which is wrong. Haven't you ever read the Human Rights Declaration?

I read it now, and see nowhere it disallows such a ban.