PDA

View Full Version : The "Fullmetal Alchemist" Manga and 2009 Anime are Sexist



NaokoElric2250
05-26-2011, 07:47 PM
Hello, everyone, this is NaokoElric2250 and this is my first ever discussion. I am looking forward to this :).

Female manga authors who write Shonen really need to get their act together. They need to treat their own gender with respect.

It is disgusting just how much they will discriminate against their own gender. In some cases, their level of sexism against woman is on par with that of the male authors (I am looking at you, Masashi Kishimoto, and others like you).

Their manga are often devoid of a good, smart, knowledgeable (as in knowing what is going in the story, such as what the main characters know) female presence whom dress sensibly. Instead, they have a very small female cast in comparison with the massive male cast, and this female cast are usually are very sexist, stereotypical characters: They will just wait at home for their male love interest/friend/friends, instead of going out and doing something useful and non-sexist.

These female characters are almost always ditzy, feminine, air-headed cry-babies who dress in very feminine or far too revealing clothing. They contribute nothing to plot except to saved and protected by male characters; act ditzy and stupid; to show how oblivious they are to what is occurring; to serve the male characters; or are just there to be comforted by male characters as they cry.

This sexist portrayal is made even worse when compared to what is usually the main cast: badass, muscular manly man and boys, and only one or two female characters, or perhaps none at all.

There are little to no important all female scenes or 'Female vs. Male' or 'Female vs. Female' fight scenes in which the female beats the male character in a serious manner, if that is whom she is fighting. However, they are plenty of 'all male' or 'mostly male and one female' scenes, and 'Male vs. Male' scenes. Finally, none of the female characters are ever as fully developed as the males.

This, however, as one can see from the title, will mainly focus on "Fullmetal Alchemist". It will concern why I feel this series is sexist and the aspects that should have been different for it not to be so. A few other related topics will also be included.
Now, before the flamers and I start, let me say one thing: I like "Fullmetal Alchemist". It is just under my list of favourite manga/anime. These are the manga versions of "Card Captor Sakura", "Elfen Lied", "Sailor Moon" and the manga and anime versions of "Black Lagoon".

However, just because I like something, does not mean I cannot do a rant on it.
The big issue I have with "Fullmetal Alchemist" is not entirely about the series itself, but also the author. Do not judge me wrongly, as I like Arakawa-sensei's other works (e.g. "Souten no Koumori" and "Stray Dog") as well as "Fullmetal Alchemist". Though I do wish "Souten no Koumori" was an actual series and not just a one-shot as I feel it is the only manga she has written that did not contain sexism.

However, I feel that the author was being sexist toward herself and did not portray women in a good light as she should, being one after all. Instead, she just made yet another typical Shonen manga with a tough male main protagonist whom fights most of the time, to add to the annoyingly endless list of female mangaka who just do not know how to treat his own gender in a non-sexist manner. It was yet another with the "Male-Male-Female" group where the most attention is paid to the two males, while the female is thrown to the side.

Some examples are "Korushitsuji" (look at Elizabeth Middleford. I do not care if it is the Victorian times, she is another example of a sexist character, and like many females that are close to main character, she knows nothing of Ciel's history and situation and is portrayed in a overly-feminine, ditzy, stupid, airhead, cry-baby manner) and "Katekyō Hitman Reborn".

Shonen series' can have tough a tough, capable, female main protagonist/two female main protagonists. Look at "Soul Eater", "Zettai Karen Children" and "Cutey Honey" (the very first Shonen mange to feature a female main protagonist), all created by men. For a non-manga/anime example, there is the "His Dark Materials" book series by Philip Pullman, which features a great female protagonist Lyra (and her Demon), who, in the first book, is trying to find and save her male friend. In addiction, the next two books have a good male protagonist, Will Parry, who does not outshine the main female character.

An example that works the other way would be the "Harry Potter" book series, which, despite being written by a woman, and having a male as the main protagonist, is very fair on gender. For example, the girl (Hermione) is the most smart and assist her male friends all the time. Were it not for her they would be clueless most of the time and enter into much more trouble.

Allow me to explain. When I first starting reading the series in question, I was sure a man had written it, because the main cast consisted entirely of male characters, and the portrayal of the female cast.

I was surprised when I learnt that the author was in fact female. If a male author had written "Fullmetal Alchemist", I would not have the following issues, as I would expect as much from a male author, from what I have seen from the books and manga I have read. However, that does mean there are not good male authors, as I know a few good woman-friendly that have really interesting stories).

Arakawa is quite sexist in general. Her opinion on how men/boys and woman/girls should look clearly indicate this. She believes that men should be muscular and tall (Edward Elric grows, so he still counts) and woman should be 'Curvy and Bosomy'. These are huge stereotypes. She is basically saying all men should be fit and strong and all women should have large breasts and the body equivalent to that of a model. General Armstrong is particular proof of this, and almost every male character in this series qualifies.

That is insulting to both genders! Not all men have to have a six-pack and not all women have to look like prostitutes/glamour models (who, in my opinion are a form of prostitute who does not have sex for money, but instead gets naked for photos for money, which is pornography and nothing to have pride in).
Before I start the individual point I wish to make, I will give one final general point:
Excluding Olivier Armstrong and Izumi Curtis (both of whom I think are so great), they were always 'second' and in the shadow of males: Winry serves as Edward's mechanic, Riza is the subordinate of Roy, Ran Fan is the Bodyguard/Servant of Ling, and Mei Chan is in the weakest clan of Xing. Riza and Ran Fan also had the stupid "Bodyguard Crush" trope as part of their character.

Purely the men in their lives defined the girls and woman! If the men did not exist, there would be no need of these girls and woman!

Now that I have that out of the way, it is on to the actual story. I first thing I just cannot understand about Arakawa-sensei is, being a woman, why did she make the main protagonists (Edward and Alphonse Elric) male and the main supporting character (Winry Rockbell) female. Due to this, we had the typical: "Male(s) go/goes on adventures to reach a goal, while the female best friend/love interest, oblivious as to what is happening, waits at home" trope! I know Winry travelled with the Elrics every now and then and learned some things, but it is still just annoying that Arakawa-sensei used such an over-used plot device!

She should have made the made the main protagonists a pair of sisters and Winry a boy and have the rarely seen story where: "Female(s) go(es) on adventures to reach a goal, while the male best friend/love interest, oblivious as to what is happening, waits at home."

How many series have a pair of sisters as the main protagonists, rather than a pair of brothers? Fem!Edward (Edwina) would have been a short, tomboy with a flat-chest, whom was also loving towards her younger sister. Fem!Alphonse (Alphonsa/Alice), your sweet, cute, feminine girl, with a rarely seen tough, badass side (which would make her femininity acceptable).

This brings me neatly on the next point of my rant: Winry Rockbell herself. I am not a Winry-hater. I just have some issues. In case you are wondering Alphonse is my favourite character, and Mei Chan and Ran Fan tied at second, but I digress.
The author was being just down right sexist towards herself because of the way she made Winry Rockbell.

The main thing I found annoying (but not really sexist) is that despite the fact that she the closest to the main characters, she is the furthest away, as she is hardly involved in the main plot, and even when she is, Arakawa found some excuse to throw her to the side. Some examples are 'Staying in Rush Valley to be apprentice', 'returning and staying in Rizenbul', and others.

Winry could have been a good character, but instead she was made a ditzy cry-baby, who 'cries for those who will not cry for themselves, such as Edward and Alphonse', which is just pathetic. She cries far too much. Nearly every scene she is in she is crying for some stupid, senseless reason! Arakawa even made her cry at the Elrics burning down their home, which had no reason to be done. Meanwhile, the Elrics themselves do not even look sad. Another example is when she hit Alphonse with her spanner after he thought he was not a real person. There was no need for that you sexist cow (no pun intended)!

Arakawa also had Winry wear far too revealing clothes (tube tops/midriff-bearing tops and mini skirts) as well. It was purely for fan-service and no sensible female mechanic I have seen in real life would wear a boob tube her under her jumpsuit. If she did, she would most likely be instructed to change. If males wear tank tops or t-shirts, then so should females! We know Winry owns one!

Winry was also reduced to a hostage to keep Edward doing as the military says. I know she came up that plan to get herself out of that hostage situation, but does little to counteract what a sexist character she is.

She also gets her soul stolen due to the activation of the National Transmutation Circle and had to be saved. I know she was not the only one, but still Winry had to a part of that did she not? She had be one of those who needed saving, even all the other important characters did not? She had be one of those who required saving, even all the other important characters did not?

Winry also does very feminine, stereotypical things such as the laundry and baking. Her job of mechanic does not contradict this. She is serving her male friend. I mean in chapter 84, Edward tells her to bake him as apple pie and keep it warm for him and she agrees! In reality, Edward was saying, as my deviantart friend AveriaAlexandros puts it, "Get back in the kitchen and make an apple pie for me" and Winry was responding, "Of course, I'll do something stereotypical for a girl as you're my man and I must obey you as I'm a weak, stereotypical woman". Again, anyone whom believes this is not sexist is very unintelligent indeed.

She is also the only 'important' character who does not directly witness Edward returning Alphonse from the gate, his body restored, in chapter 108 while every other important character does (Mustang, Hawkeye, Ling, Ran Fan and Mei) and some unimportant characters (the Chimeras). That just is not fair, considering the fact that she is their childhood friend!

Let us not forget about that scene where Winry first met Scar, learning he killed her parents. I will admit, despite my first annoyances, I thought FMA was a little progressive…until I saw this scene. Instead of being strong and confronting him in a brave manner, she started crying, sunk to her knees, looking pathetic and weak, despite the fact that she picked up a gun and contemplated shooting him! In addition, she does this in front of complete strangers as well as the Elrics. If one wants to be a weak, stereotypical insult to the female gender, than one should do that in the privacy of ones bedroom!

To make this even worse, the boy (Edward) had to jump in front of the girl (Winry) to protect her. The boy had to get the girl to put the gun down. The boy whom had to comfort the girl while she cried her little heart out (and wails like a toddler taking a tantrum)! The girl had to be left in the protection of the Military, as if she could not protect herself!

How could Arakawa-sensei have wrote and drawn this? How could she have made her own still-discriminated gender be so pathetic? I hate, hate, hate (I am beginning to sound like Kefka) this type of scene in fiction! They are so sexist it is almost unbelievable! The female character would be crying and sobbing, usually falling feebly to her knees or into her friend/lover's arms, crying into his chest and being weak and submissive! Meanwhile, the male character is being not even shedding a tear (even if he does look sad, like Edward) is being strong and dominating, hugging his frail friend/lover! The only way I can accept scene like this if the male and female roles were reversed, it was two females, or two males.

As if things could not get bad enough, after this, does Winry try to regain the large amount of dignity she just lost? Does Arakawa have her stand up and bravely inform Edward that she was going with him, to help Alphonse perhaps? No, she has her just sit there, crying and being weak! What is wrong with you, Arakawa Hiromu?

For this to be not sexist, Winry should not have been crying (therefore not showing weakness before her enemy, which is about the best thing you do) not fall feebly to her knees, but hold her head high (further showing strength) but deciding on her own whether to shoot or not and not having a boy jump in front of her to protect her! Finally, since I believe she still would not have shot or went with Edward, she should have told him something good, instead of sitting there crying and wailing.

At least in the 2003 Anime, the 'Winry meets her parent's killer' scene played out much better. Instead of breaking down in tears, Winry was strong and refused to cry, as she did not want to be a burden. That is very non-sexist. In the words of Fergie, "Big girls don't cry".

Arakawa-sensei was also hypocritical, as she made Winry previously say something along the lines of "I don't want to wait anymore" in Briggs, I think. However, she contradicted that statement when Winry returns to Rizenbul and decides to remain there. Thus, we are back to the "A male/a group of males go on adventures to reach a goal, while the female friend/love interest, oblivious as to what is happening, waits at home" situation, and I hate that!

Once again, the 2003 anime is superior in non-sexist portrayal. Winry actually does things other than repairing or building automail, waiting and crying. She interacts with more people (e.g. Roy and Sciezka) and does a lot more on her own. For example, she tapped Julia Douglas/Sloth's phone lines and she and Sciezka did some (not so good) investigating by themselves. She even had her own little story apart from the Elric Brothers.

I would have liked Winry more if the above things were different, I think Winry should have been male, yet still have been in the same situation, and go though same things in the manga I had issues with, as, with Winry being male, it would no longer be sexist to us women. Male!Winry (Winter) would have been your typical manly mechanic, who has a soft, emotional side to him.

It would have the rarely seen situation of "Female-Female-Male Group where most of the attention was given to the females".

Now I will talk about the next two characters: Roy Mustang and Riza Hawkeye.
Firstly, why did Arakawa-sensei make the woman the subordinate, and the man the powerful State Alchemist (well expect that he is useless in the rain) and Superior Officer/Boss?

In addition, why did she make the woman, instead of thinking for herself, and how she could improve the country on her own, instead think a man could do a better job than she could?

Furthermore, even though she is a tough gunslinger, Riza was turned into a bit of a Damsel in Distress as The Führer made her, like Winry to Edward, a hostage to keep Roy in check. She was also twice made into a complete Damsel in Distress when she was attacked by Gluttony, and later, when her throat was slit. Despite her skills, she had to be saved on both occasions, the first time (the Gluttony one) by men!

Then there is the scene is Riza crying when she thought Roy was dead. I mean do we ever get a scene where the man is crying and screaming because he thinks the woman he loves is dead? Even if there is a scene like that, the man does not cry most of the tine. This is yet another example of Arakawa's self-sexism.

Roy should have being female and Riza male. It is as simple as that.

Fem!Roy (Roya) would be an attractive, large-breasted man-eater, who wants to be the first female Further, whose flame alchemist suits her 'hot' appearance. Male!Riza (Rizo, code name 'Richard') would be a chivalrous, protective sharpshooter, who hates to hurt his superior, but know that sometimes he would have no choice (the Scar batter in Chapter 7).

This brings me onto Ling Yao and Ran Fan. As I said earlier, Ran Fan is mere servant (still cool though, I love her as much as Izumi, Olivier, Hughes and Alex) and not the royalty figure, which Ling is. I know a man (Fu) was a servant too, but that makes no difference.

Ran Fan (a ninja) was turned into a true Damsel in Distress when she was attacked by Wrath (taken out with just ONE STRIKE!) and had to be rescued and protected by Ling, a boy, and the person she was supposed to be protecting! It really displeased me.

There is even a picture of Ran Fan appearing weak and helpless, while Ling has one arm wrapped around her and the other clutching his sword in front of her. The roles should have been reversed as this is implying that a female guard cannot defend her charge!

Why would a female author allow this?

In addition, because she received this injury and had to cut off her arm, she was out of the majority of the story while Ling got all the adventure and attention!

Ling should have been female and Ran Fan male, or Ran Fan should have been with Ling the whole time, then I would not feel Arakawa-sensei was being sexist towards her own gender. Fem!Ling (same name, as it is unisex) would a ambitious princess who needs a bodyguard, implying she could not defend herself, but would reveal her protective, side when she needed to. Ran Fan (same name again) would be pretty much the same with little differences, due to being male. This would also be good, as Fem!Ling could have been the first Empress of Xing.

Now, on to Mei Chan. Even though I do adore her, as she is a "Little Miss Badass" and can use Rentanjutsu, she was still made to cry many times. For example, when she lost Xiao Mei (though I guess that is understandable, as she knew her for so long and they were good friends), when Alphonse gave himself over to the gate to restore Edward's arm in Manga Chapter 107 and when she thought Alphonse was gone.

In addition, just like Riza and Ran Fan, she had to be rescued! This happens every time she attacked Father. In both incidents, like Ran Fan before here, it takes ONE BLOODY STRIKE to defeat her and needing rescue and protection by a boy (Alphonse)!

However, the male characters seem to be quite well for a while, despite the fact two of them (the Elrics Brothers) cannot use Alchemy.

Why, Arakawa-sensei, did you write and draw this, even though it is clearly implying woman/girls are more easily defeated and weaker than man/boys are, when we are not?

Male!Mei (Meo) would be a ambitious, tough little prince with a bit of a vivid imagination, questing after a certain girl, until he meets her of course, and is stunned, as she 'broke the heart of a handsome young prince'. Then, after being saved by Alphonsa, falls in love with her instead.

Even Olivier (the great and powerful General) had to get help from her brother to defeat Sloth the second time around, because Arakawa could not have her defeat him on her own, oh no (I know Izumi and Sig help too).

Moreover, there was have next to no scenes featuring female characters rescuing/saving the lives of male characters. Mei saving Halling does not count, as Halling was a minor character. Neither does Riza saving Roy from Scar in chapter 7, as he was not in mortal danger, unlike Riza later on (throat cut). However, there were plenty of scenes featuring male characters rescuing/saving the lives of female characters (as I have mentioned above).

AveriaAlexandros, also pointed out another sexist point is this: none of the females in FMA were fully developed. Winry's was only she had something to cry about, Riza is…plot? As for the pasts of Ran Fan and Mei Chan, we know visually nothing! Furthermore, what little development we have of Izumi is placed in a side-story!

Now, I want to highlight that it is not only woman Arakawa-sensei was being sexist to. Again, this is came to my knowledge though AveriaAlexandros.

Look at Edward. Apart from the initial height problem, he seems to be your typical, muscular 'manly man' Shonen hero who regularly beats the daylights out of people. I understand that he, along with Roy, Armstrong and Hohenheim did express grief. There was Roy at Hughes's grave (that was a sad scene I will admit) Hohenheim after learning Trisha's last words, Edward when Hohenheim offered himself in exchange for Alphonse, and Armstrong….at random times.

However, the 2003 anime, Edward shows his emotions much more. For example, he cried over Nina more in the 2003 amine than the manga and he cried at almost being killed by Barry the Chopper, when he kills Greed when he is in the Gate after Envy kills him. He does not "refuse to cry" as much. He actually expresses emotion.
One final point is in an Omake, where Hohenheim give him a pornography magazine and Edward's hate turned to complete respect because of it. I understand it was a joke, but it is still sexist that she would make a boy like pornography and like someone whom they hate because of such.

This is not really related, but here is another thing. Lust was the only female Homunculus in the manga and she was the first be killed and Pride, the most powerful Homunculus, and the only one to survive in the end, just has to male, did it not? Because the immortal looks like a child, and has lived for hundreds of years had to be male did it not? (Anther example is Czeslaw Meyer from "Baccano!" though I do like that series. Ennis is my favourite character). Additionally, the only child of the ruler (even if it is false) has to be male as well, correct? That is so annoying!

Finally - Why were there no female State Alchemists? Was Arakawa-sensei trying to say that women were not strong enough to be State Alchemists? Alternatively, is it that women did not try to take the test? It is quite a big implication to me.

In conclusion, I simply cannot understand how a woman to write such a story so sexist toward her own gender. If the author were a man, I would expect as much, from what I have seen from most Shonen series (apart from the ones I mentioned).

Edward Elric, Alphonse Elric, Roy Mustang, Ling Yao and Slim Bradley/Pride should have been female in canon and Riza Hawkeye, Ran Fan and Mei should have been male. If the above were the canon genders, yet still have the same things happen to them in the manga (which a few necessary changes) that I did not like, with these genders the events would not be sexist. It would be more interesting, too. It would also have made "Fullmetal Alchemist" a more unique series, and I would have liked it so much more.
I am writing fanfiction with the above gender benders, with the personalities I described, as I think this is how they would be as the opposite gender.

So that was my first ever rant, so thank you for reading.


P.S (INPORTANT): I am not the only person who believes "Fullmetal Alchemist" is sexist. The following quotes were out before I created this rant I found this on LiveJournal as part of a meme called "Feminism Meme":

"FMA is one of my favorite series, and I (as well as many other fans) regard it to be quite progressive in regards to gender issues. But I still see a lot of female characters attached to male characters, or in the shadow of male characters. Riza exists to push Roy to the top; Winry supports Ed in his quest to regain his body; and Ran Fan serves Ling. In fact, without these male characters, many of the female characters would not exist, because they exist as a subset of their male counterparts. (The only exceptions to this seem to be Olivier and then of course Izumi and Sig: Sig exists as part of Izumi's story, not the other way around.) Also, Winry-supporters sometimes argue that Winry in particular is a progressive character merely for the fact that she does not fit a "healer" archetype unlike many of her fellow shonen heroines from other popular series (such as, say, Sakura or Orihime from "Naruto" and "Bleach", respectively). I disagree with this venomously. Winry's up there with the rest of them - it's just that, for this particular canon, automail takes the place of flesh and thus healing automail is equivalent to healing flesh. Some people see her mechanical skills and say, wow, that deconstructs gender somehow! - and it would, if Winry lived in the modern-day era on our side of the gate where she'd have to fix cars and machinery for a living. However, that's not the case, and in her universe, her skills exist to serve her male counterpart. Also, Riza can "kick ass" with a gun, but the ideals she's protecting with that gun are not her own. They're Roy's. So sometimes when I hear people say the female characters in FMA are progressive, I wonder if they're mistakenly looking at skills (gun skills, technical skills) and not looking at what those skills are doing for this particular narrative and for whom.

There 's also the fail of the only female homunculus in the manga being Lust - the one sin stereotypically pinned on women. She's the first homunculus to die, so she's never fully developed, but her comfort with her own sexuality is the source of her "evil". (This is one place where the anime wins, btw - Lust is more than just a character associated with sexuality and is quite philosophical and intelligent. She's also not the only female villain.)There's other fail, too, like the fact that Rose in the anime has no agency outside of Ed, for instance. I actually find her situation interesting because she has no agency, but it's still problematic."
See? This person made some good points too, and has similar issues to me, even pointed out some things I did notice. I do not care much for Rose as she is but a minor character.



Some other people who support my opinions on Winry (again, these were out before I wrote this):

"…Furthermore, the manga makes Winry and Ed act like an old married couple with *extremely* subtle "stay in the kitchen" mentality. There's a part where Ed and Al are talking about the Philosopher's stone, Winry asks what they're talking about, and Ed snaps "Men's talk!" Hitting him with the wrench for that would've been excusable and hilarious, but she sighs and does nothing! In chapter 84 when Ed leaves to go save the country, he tells her to have a pie ready for him when he gets back. Tell me how that is not sexist. As for her being a mechanic, she doesn't read like his mechanic. She reads like his nurse." - ElmeraMidas

"I really think that Winry contributes nothing to the storyline except as a love interest for Ed. She spends all her time crying (or telling everyone she's not going to cry in which case she might as well now) and saying she's sick of not being helpful and that she's going to help them now. But she never does. Every other main character in the anime serves some sort of purpose to the story line but if Winry weren't there what would change? Pinako would fix Ed's automail. As for the comment about her being to violent, personally I don't mind that. It's about the only interesting thing she ever does." - wolf-in-a-dress


So, again, before you flame me, think and read carefully. Thank you.

Finally I shall dicuss this in a proper forum!

blueangel06661
05-26-2011, 08:18 PM
tl;dr.

I don't even think you know what sexist is.

Even so. Who cares go watch something else then. Oh.. and btw? Why are you on an anime forum? Get back in the kitchen already

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk315/Apesapoppin88/facepalm.jpg

36gamer
05-26-2011, 08:50 PM
i read the first two or three paragraphs. basically, stop complaining about the series if you don't like it. just don't watch it.

guess what It's an ACTION, anime/manga. And guess which gender is associated with with strength? MEN. (and that's not sexist thats a fact. If you think that's sexist then i guess me saying chicks have boobs is sexist)

btw look at lust, sloth, and Armstrong's older sister (whose name has left my mind)

blueangel06661
05-26-2011, 08:55 PM
And it's just a copy/paste of what you wrote here.......

http://naokoelric2250.deviantart.com/art/A-Rant-On-Fullmetal-Alchemist-181630838

Todoroki
05-26-2011, 08:58 PM
Do you expect people to read all that? Also, a lot of anime are racist but yet people don't complain or type up a huge wall of text of a rant.

@36gamer (http://www.animeforum.com/member.php?u=268680) has it right but at the same time he is wrong..I mean women can be as strong as men, but they making women the weaker sex is not sexist at all.

EDIT: If is her own writing then I don't think it's something we can use against her. It doesn't matter if you she posted it elsewhere. AF doesn't always need 100% original threads...

blueangel06661
05-26-2011, 09:02 PM
Plus you have to take in consideration of the time period it's slightly based in. :| Not all men/woman were treated as equals back then. Women WERE expected to have house duties. It's not really sexist it's just how it was back then. Nothing to rant about. Can't change history.

Why don't you write up a while rant about the male sexist part. Ed and Al are portrayed as strong. OH NO! THATS SEXIST! Not all men are strong and determined. But them and every other guy in the show is portrayed as such. Besides Winry may whine a lot but she's a mechanic. Which makes her not a sexist girl o.O???? Same with what's her face who's in the office with Roy. If it were truely sexist there'd be no women positions. fail.

NaokoElric2250
05-26-2011, 09:15 PM
If one more person mensions the time period thing I am going to scream. Amestris IS NOT Earth, so do not use that excuse! And how on earh is making woman the weaker sex anyting BUT sexist?
I said I like the series! Just not these things in it. Alphonse is my favourite character as he is a fair combination of badass and cute...unlike the rest of the male characters.

---------- Post added at 02:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 AM ----------

Oh, and I will somone would repond to what other people have said instead of just me, that was the whole reason I added them.

Todoroki
05-26-2011, 09:17 PM
If one more person mensions the time period thing I am going scream. Amestris IS NOT Earth, so do not use that excuse! And how on earh is making woman the weaker sex anyting BUT sexist?
I said I like the series! Just not these things in it.

It's not sexist at all, like I said, women can be a strong as men if they work for it but making them the weaker sex is not abnormal nor sexist. I don't really understand why are you so into this, it doesn't really matter much anyways.

NaokoElric2250
05-26-2011, 09:21 PM
You have a serious fucking problem, it is one of the most sexist things you can do. And I do not whether it matter or not. This is not the only think I am here for (I mainly came here for CCS) but since someone told me to out this on a forum, so I did.

You can check that out too.

(what IS that thing that is in the middle of my sentence?)

blueangel06661
05-26-2011, 09:21 PM
If one more person mensions the time period thing I am going scream. Amestris IS NOT Earth, so do not use that excuse! And how on earh is making woman the weaker sex anyting BUT sexist?

......... please go crawl under a rock. :| and so what who cares it's just a TV show. :| and quite frankly woman are the weaker sex. It's just our body structure. Why do you think they don't let woman be on the front line in the army? Or on professional football teams. etc. etc. etc.


I said I like the series! Just not these things in it.
.... Well if you have enough time to write a book about them.. Then I don't think you like it very much...


Oh, and I will somone would repond to what other people have said instead of just me, that was the whole reason I added them.

Why we all agree with your stupidity towards sexism. and that your original post was waaaaaaaay too long.

NaokoElric2250
05-26-2011, 09:27 PM
Because that is stupid men thinking we could not do that. The pigs could at least let us try. Woman are stronger. For example, we seem to handle pain better, we do not have a 'weak spot' if you get what I mean.

Would I have OCs for a series I hate? Nope.

36gamer
05-26-2011, 09:30 PM
You have a serious fucking problem, it is one of the most sexist things you can do. And I do not whether it matter or not. This is not the only think I am here for (I mainly came here for CCS) but since someone told me to out this on a forum, so I did.

You can check that out too.

(what IS that thing that is in the middle of my sentence?)
first of all your grammar is very hard to understand and i can't take you seriously.

second of all the fact that men (for the most part, like Kaitou+ some women are stronger than some one) in general are physically stronger than women. How is it sexist to point out the differences between men and women? women are generally (again I am saying generally) more affectionate and understanding than males. is this sexist towards males? no it's just stating the strengths that one gender has over the other.

women have strengths over guys and guys have strengths over women. women have a vagina guys have a penis, see how we have differences? or are you a 3 year old girl who thinks that guys and girls are the same?

blueangel06661
05-26-2011, 09:30 PM
..... well it's because we can't? they are natually built with bigger muscles and bones. If a really big buff football player was to run into you.. You can kiss your conscious goodbye. It's annoying overly sexist sensitive woman like you that makes me wish I wasn't a woman >.> So lame.

36gamer
05-26-2011, 09:38 PM
If one more person mensions the time period thing I am going to scream. Amestris IS NOT Earth, so do not use that excuse! And how on earh is making woman the weaker sex anyting BUT sexist?
I said I like the series! Just not these things in it. Alphonse is my favourite character as he is a fair combination of badass and cute...unlike the rest of the male characters.


btw just like every single anime,movie,book, or other fictional tale that takes place in a fantasy world the attitudes displayed in the people of fma are supposed to be based or the attitudes and personalities of people irl. otherwise it would make absolutely no sense at all now would it?

GameGeeks
05-26-2011, 09:42 PM
^That, try not to write a novel. I only skimmed it and the impression I got is you're looking too much into it. Not to mention your repeat yourself over and over. That's way too much writing for a single idea. I'll just go over a few that stuck out too me.

AveriaAlexandros, also pointed out another sexist point is this: none of the females in FMA were fully developed. Winry's was only she had something to cry about, Riza is…plot? As for the pasts of Ran Fan and Mei Chan, we know visually nothing! Furthermore, what little development we have of Izumi is placed in a side-story!Um, first, Winry, didn't just cry. She either gave Ed his arm and legs or fixes them (forget which). She's known them since they where kids, an acomplished mechanic, and, as you mention later, gets herself out of tight situations. How is that reduced to simply being she's there to cry. And as for Riza, how is plot not development? And not every char is going to get a back story. They're there to fill a certain roll and that's it.


This is not really related, but here is another thing. Lust was the only female Homunculus in the manga and she was the first be killed and Pride, the most powerful Homunculus, and the only one to survive in the end, just has to male, did it not? Because the immortal looks like a child, and has lived for hundreds of years had to be male did it not? (Anther example is Czeslaw Meyer from "Baccano!" though I do like that series. Ennis is my favourite character). Additionally, the only child of the ruler (even if it is false) has to be male as well, correct? That is so annoying!This is just you being pick. The Homunculus where based on different sins. Lust was female because that's what you think of when you think of that sin. Ones like Pride and Gluttony tend to instill pictures of men when you think of them. So this is just strait up crying. Not to mention, 98% of villains in any media are male. Get over it. That probably wont change anytime soon.


Edward Elric, Alphonse Elric, Roy Mustang, Ling Yao and Slim Bradley/Pride should have been female in canon and Riza Hawkeye, Ran Fan and Mei should have been male. If the above were the canon genders, yet still have the same things happen to them in the manga (which a few necessary changes) that I did not like, with these genders the events would not be sexist. It would be more interesting, too. It would also have made "Fullmetal Alchemist" a more unique series, and I would have liked it so much more.
I am writing fanfiction with the above gender benders, with the personalities I described, as I think this is how they would be as the opposite gender.So it's not sexist if the jokes where changed to apply to men? How is that NOT a double standard? You're one of those woman that think, oh, she's in a secretarial position so her boss must be sexist. Cry me a river. Woman are equal in today's society (minus a few areas like paychecks, needs to be changed). Woman can do everything a man can. What are we supposed to do, get on our knees and kiss your feet? Wait, we've always done that. I like how people like you go crying about things like this and then still expect us to do things like pay for dinners, movies, whatever on dates, and all that other jazz. I'm not buying into it. Not to mention there's the fact you can't be sexist against your OWN gender.

EDIT: Wow, I took too long.

NaokoElric2250
05-26-2011, 09:52 PM
No, you just will not. Woman can do almost anything men, apart from the obivious and vise versa.
That is why in football (soocer) woman's teams verse woman's teams.

---------- Post added at 02:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:50 AM ----------

For your infomation, I get along with males better than females. Most of my friends are male. So before yiou go saying I am sexist, think about that.

blueangel06661
05-26-2011, 09:54 PM
No, you just will not. Woman can do almost anything men, apart from the obivious and vise versa.
That is why in football (soocer) woman's teams verse woman's teams.

Yeah but they can't do them together. Like in football [american] a woman can't play on a mens team. Except be a kicker really. If she were to get tackled she'd be instantly killed. I've been beside a pro player. He's huge. I'm sure if he did as much as lift a finger he could pin me to the ground. Scary. :|

and why are you still out of the kitchen???

36gamer
05-26-2011, 09:54 PM
what are you even talking about? what you just said doesn't even come close to anything resembling a valid point.

oh and btw. earlier you said some one had a serious problem for not agreeing with you. i believe the one who has opinions no one here agrees with is the one with the problem


edit: that was directed at NaokoElric2250

Todoroki
05-26-2011, 09:55 PM
GameGeeks never called you sexist. You are really overreacting about a something trivial as an anime, especially when it wasn't intended to be sexist at all.

You really need to lighten up and stop taking things so seriously.

GameGeeks
05-26-2011, 09:58 PM
No, you just will not. Woman can do almost anything men, apart from the obivious and vise versa.
That is why in football (soocer) woman's teams verse woman's teams.

---------- Post added at 02:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:50 AM ----------

For your infomation, I get along with males better than females. Most of my friends are male. So before yiou go saying I am sexist, think about that.Yeah, like how you completely missed the point of my post and/or ignored it.

animeyay
05-26-2011, 10:01 PM
I won't even attempt to refudiate your every single argument, (tl;dr.) but in short: what can you do about it? There's freedom of artistic expression, and if you don't like it, boycott it or whatever. There are plenty of other fans out there who will appreciate the work.

You know what's scarier than sexism in anime/manga?--people who forcefully affix reality to fantasy, and apply the laws and rules of real life to works of fiction. Why don't you try ranting about the impossibility of ninja skills (namely from Naruto) or something then? Isn't that a direct violation of physics, biology, etc.?

NaokoElric2250
05-26-2011, 10:05 PM
I know that. As you said our structer is different.

This is off topic, but why is it called "Football" when you mostly use your hands? Just curious. I know you kick it first, but it just seems strange.

---------- Post added at 03:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:03 AM ----------


Yeah, like how you completely missed the point of my post and/or ignored it.

Only the second part was in reponse to you.

GameGeeks
05-26-2011, 10:05 PM
I know that. As you said our structer is different.

This is off topic, but why is it called "Football" when you mostly use your hands? Just curious. I know you kick it first, but it just seems strange.

---------- Post added at 03:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:03 AM ----------



Only the second part was in reponse to you.
Then that falls under ignoring 98% of my post.

36gamer
05-26-2011, 10:06 PM
i think it had to do with it being shaped like a foot or something.

oh and good job changing the subject since you knew you were wrong

NaokoElric2250
05-26-2011, 10:11 PM
first of all your grammar is very hard to understand

Why so? It is because I write without beng lazy and using contraction? I mean, I do not mind people using them in speech, or writing for that matter, bu I just feel it is a rather lazy.

---------- Post added at 03:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:09 AM ----------


i think it had to do with it being shaped like a foot or something.

oh and good job changing the subject since you knew you were wrong

Ah, again, somone has made a foolish asumption that they have no evidence to suport. It was simply a side-question.[COLOR="Silver"]

Todoroki
05-26-2011, 10:13 PM
@NaokoElric2250 (http://www.animeforum.com/member.php?269056-NaokoElric2250)is butterhurt....Case and point. If you are going to complain about this, stop reading manga and watching Anime altogether.

GameGeeks
05-26-2011, 10:16 PM
I'm just gonna get petty and leave this here.

http://chzmemebase.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/memes-cant-tell-if-troll-or-just-really-stupid.jpg

36gamer
05-26-2011, 10:18 PM
Why so? It is because I write without beng lazy and using contraction? I mean, I do not mind people using them in speech, or writing for that matter, bu I just feel it is a rather lazy.[COLOR="Silver"]

I'm sorry but you seem to be a very un-intelligent person with a lack of any logic whatsoever. what you just said made absolutely no sense whatsoever. here let me dissect what i just quoted to make it understandable for you.

"Why so? It is because I write without beng lazy and using contraction? I mean, I do not mind people using them in speech, or writing for that matter, bu I just feel it is a rather lazy."

this phrase should look like this : "How come (previous way you said it sounded weird)? Is it (the way it was before made absolutely no sense) because I write without being lazy and using contractions (plural my friend plural)? I mean, I do not mind people using them when they talk (the way you said it before again sounded quite odd), or writing for that matter, but (you forgot the t) I just feel it is rather lazy.

I usually am not a grammar nazi. I just prefer to be able to understand what people say without re-reading it numerous times.

animeyay
05-26-2011, 10:20 PM
http://trollcats.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/you_have_abandoned_your_judgment_trollcat.jpg

Capitán
05-27-2011, 02:12 AM
First of all.. no one.. Woman OR Man.. could defeat wrath in a convincing way in brotherhood. He was just that badass. Scar got lucky.. and I mean VERY LUCKY. Split millisecond lucky.

Also, I recommend that you watch Claymore. You will be one happy camper once you do.

Assiduous✡Aristocrat
05-27-2011, 02:42 AM
Olivier Armstrong is strong as fronk.
Winry is strong both emotionally and physically.
And have you seen her grandmother.

Go ACTUALLY read some FMA.


Naruto: Sakura is Super Sayian level strong. as is Tsunade. Both are intelligent too. (Sakura pretty much aced then Chunin written test.)
Ohhhhhhh and the Current Mizukage. Yeeeaaahhhhhh, that be a female.
Have you seen her?

I suggest you stop here.
I spent my childhood reading them.
You're going to lose this.

I'm guessing you rode the short bus?

Velvet_Nightmare
05-27-2011, 03:01 AM
Why so? It is because I write without beng lazy and using contraction? I mean, I do not mind people using them in speech, or writing for that matter, bu I just feel it is a rather lazy.


That didn't help your argument, especially this point:

"These female characters are almost always ditzy...air-headed..."

Nanobyte
05-27-2011, 03:06 AM
Lol, u all mad?

GameGeeks
05-27-2011, 03:12 AM
Lol, u all mad?
Nope, well maybe Blue is, but I'm just amused. And There's nothing lazy about contractions. They're there to make it easier on the person speaking and writing it. And Amb, I think you forgot the sandwich.

Nanobyte
05-27-2011, 03:15 AM
Sorry. I'll get back to the kitchen now. v_v

Anoleis
05-27-2011, 03:45 AM
Oh sweetie, did you get tired of the Butthurt Brigade calling you on your crap on Deviant Art, and try to push it here as well look for sympathy?

Grow up sugar pie. And make me a samich!

Gjallarhorn
05-27-2011, 04:04 AM
I can't tell if you're reading too far between lines that are not there and assuming meaning where there is none, or if you're just baiting.

NaokoElric2250
05-27-2011, 09:13 AM
I am not ‘butthurt’. You cannot say how I feel. Only I am capable of doing that, as only I am capable of controlling my own emotions. And vise versa for that matter.
You are the butthurt ones as you cannot take someone criticizing your precious manga, which is just hilarious and pathetic. Really, almost every comment here and on DA caused me to snigger at its pure arrogance and lack of intelligent thought.

I am simply amused about how stupid you all are. I am clearly more smart and insightful that all of you as none of you will even bother to see from my point as view as you are ignorant, blind fan-girls/fan-boys. I do hate fan-girls and fan-boys. They are some of the biggest idiots on the internet.


Winry is strong both emotionally and physically.

AHAHAHA *ten minutes later* HAHAHAAAAA! That is one of the most stupid, retarded things I have ever heard from a blind FMA fan-girl/fan-boy. She is one of most pathetic, weak, feminine, and insults to woman in the entire manga.

I have read the manga as have the other people I have mentioned. Why not speak of their opinions instead of all jumping on me. Are you afriad to see that I am not the only to see the truth?

Do stop with the kitchen jokes. They are most immature, and do not effect me in the slightest as I know how pathetic and over-used they are.

---------- Post added at 02:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:47 PM ----------

For the "Naruto" comment, I have this, by Tox-chan:


You've entered my territorium... this is a rant I posted on my livejournal last summer:


Naruto was the first anime I ever watched. Sure, when Sailor Moon and Beyblade aired in Sweden they were my favourite shows as a kid, but I never knew they were anime or anything, so Naruto was the first anime which I knew was an anime, and watched in Japanese (with English subs of course). One Piece was my first manga.

I started to watch Naruto three years ago I think... Or two and a half, it was the fall 2006. I admit that I was a Sasuke fangirl and totally in love with the show.

When my sister and I who watched it together got to the point were we had to wait every week for the episode we chose to read the manga also. This was in the beginning of 2007, and soon I had read all of the chapters as well. It was soon after that when I watched Naruto AMVs I came across some Naruto vs Bleach videos and was tempted to try that manga as well, which I did and now Bleach is my favourite manga. Naruto became duller, more boring and immature than before so even if I read it every week I don't really like it anymore.

Something I love about Bleach is that regardless how sexist some of the females are drawn (Harribel's release anyone?) it still contains flat-chests (Rukia for example) and unlike some anime (Naruto for example) this isn't really a big deal. The characters don't care whether they fight a guy or a girl, they take everything seriously. Nnoitra that sexist bastard was proven wrong and shown that girls can kick ass too so all is good.

I just love Bleach for all the different female and strong characters, but mostly because it's not made a big deal of. They're women but they're also fighters, there's no one going "girls can't do that" and this is so refreshing. Sure, the captain of the relief squad is a (awesome) woman but so is the captain of the assassin squad. So even with somewhat girly Orihime it's okay, because I love her and they don't go "she's not a fighter because she's a woman", she's only not a fighter because of her personality, like Hanatarou for example. Keigo is also a weak coward, along with Omaeda but this is not because they're guys, it's just because they're that kind of characters. In my opinion a good character is a character which would work as a guy or as a girl, and I think most Bleach characters could. Kenpachi would still kick ass even as a woman and Byakuya would still be a bitch.

Now, moving on to Naruto, this manga/anime is VERY different than Bleach. I'll go through each female character worth mentioning and tell you what I mean exactly.

Sakura, our "heroine" (what a joke) is the stereotypical girly girl complete with a ninjadress, pink hair and a crush on the cool guy. When Kakashi is first introduced he notes that "girls in her age think more about love than ninjutsu"... what the hell kind of statement is that? It makes me so angry and I feel it's so damn unnecessary to say that and have Sakura in love with Sasuke. Also, if you train to become a ninja then why the hell do you care about your looks or love, it makes no sense. We see that the village has normal jobs, if you're a pussy you shouldn't be a ninja.

Anyway, Sakura is also violent. It's so funny to watch women beat up the main character, isn't it? Natsumi (who I love for being so damn evil) from Keroro Gunsou, Nami (a character I like but who is sexist) from One Piece, Rukia (to her credit Ichigo beats her up too so it's equal) from Bleach and Winry (who I have no opinion on) from FullMetal Alchemist all do it too, I don't know why this is, but we can easily say that it's a "girl" trait in shonen manga. So being a stereotype of course Sakura beats Naruto up.

Naruto is by the way in love with Sakura, because he finds her pretty.

Sakura is the weakest of her team, and is unable to do pretty much anything in Part One, only fainting again and again. However, like most weak female characters, she's at least smarter than the guys. You know, like Bulma from Dragonball and Nami and Robin from One Piece. This doesn't stop her from being annoying and pathetic.

Sakura is however a character who develops, the first step being cutting of her long hair. She gets her ass handed to her and later gets rescued but that's besides the point. She tried to be stronger, and that's at least something.

When fighting her rival in love Ino she gets a flashback from the days when she was in the ninja academy. Apparently the FEMALE ninja were taught to pick flowers and do girly stuff (shoot me). Why they train ninja to be girly I have no idea.

Anyway, Ino was Sakura's best friend until they both fell in love with the same guy (Sasuke) causing their friendship to end. Yeah, they decided childish crushes was more important than friendship, choosing the guy over the girl... I know no one who would act like that. It's stupid and indicated she only did this because she's a woman.

The rest of what Sakura does is pretty much cheering on her guy teammates and getting rescued. She relies on others and never do anything herself, and she has more cry scenes than talk scenes.

In Shippuuden Sakura has trained under Tsunade and is now stronger physically (but she doesn't have big muscles, that wouldn't look good, she's just super-strong) and can heal people. Since she's a healer she is often told to stand back when fighting so that she won't get hurt. I wonder how things would go if Naruto was the one being trained to be a med-ninja...

Sakura does some good things, like actually fighting, in Shippuuden, but is ultimately left out when male characters take bigger space.

The next character is Ino, who I've already talked about a bit. She is described as a blonde bimbo and in the guide book her hobby is said to be "shopping" of course. She also works part time at her parents flower shop. Ino has the bossy personality many girl characters possess in anime. To put it simple, Ino is an even worse stereotype than Sakura though I have to admit Ino is a bit tougher and less annoying. Oh, she is the one in her group (of only guys) who can heal people.


Hinata is a girl who is in love with Naruto. She is the stereotype shy girl who's whole character resolves around Naruto and Naruto only. She's weak, worries all the time and is the caring on in her group.

Kurenai is the only female sensei but is displayed as the weakest of the four (Gai, Kakashi and Asuma). She fight with illusions which are easily countered. Kurenai is also engaged to Asuma and carries his child, because female characters usually have one or two possible guys you can pair them up with.

The next girl character is Tenten, and is the character with almost no personality whatsoever. Tenten is the weakest in her group of course, and the one who seems to notice when anyone is injured like any caring girl character. Her philosophy (according to the guide book) is that a female is as strong as a male... that a book needs to say that pretty much proves this isn't something you notice in the manga.

Temari is a girl character I like, she's strong and intelligent. When she fights with Shikamaru however he points out he doesn't want to fight a girl and this makes me real angry. You shouldn't need to point out the gender of the person you fight, as a ninja no less this shouldn't make a difference. Temari is also easily paired off with Shikamaru seeing she also has the bossy personality that is so typical girly.

Tayuya and Kin are probably the best female characters in Naruto, though Kin is admitted to be the weakest as well as only the female ninja of her team. Tayuya is destroyed by fighting Shikamaru who notes she's female, and being scolded by a teammate for swearing. "A girl shouldn't curse"... Fucking stupid manga.

Konan is the only female Akatsuki member, but she dissapoints. Not only is she an "angel" while her partner (male) is a "god" but her whole reason to do anything is him. He is all her motivation, she's extremely dependant. Was also the caring one of her team.

Rin was a girl from Kakashi's childhood team. She was a med-ninja.

Tsunade is the logical next character to mention. She is strong, independant, intelligent and hot.... Her boobs rival those of Rangiku from Bleach. The only problem is she's 53 years old. Unlike the male elders she disguises herself so that she looks 20. Why? Because you can't have a strong female character who's not hot of course!

Tsunade's problem is that she's just an older version of Sakura, complete with beating up former teammate Jiraiya who was pretty much like Naruto.

Oh, and how could I forget Karin. She's in Sasuke's new team and has the hots for him. She's an extreme fangirl.

Naruto's cast of female characters is pathetic and saddening. Although a lot of manga have these traits (One Piece, Dragonball) Naruto have most viewers of both sexes. It speaks badly to young girls who watch it, and I feel somewhat relief it isn't a big hit in Sweden as it is in USA... yet.

Anyway, I just felt like ranting about that and how much it annoys me, seeing I've never come across anyone who's been discussing this before. That might be because I don't usually go to forums, but ah well. So yes, Naruto is sexist. If anyone disagrees, I'm free to debate.

Oh, and this rant is old. I forgot Anko, who is the best female character. The ONLY good female character. Says something about Naruto.

GameGeeks
05-27-2011, 12:06 PM
I am not ‘butthurt’. You cannot say how I feel. Only I am capable of doing that, as only I am capable of controlling my own emotions.
You are the butthurt ones as you cannot take someone criticizing your precious manga, which is just hilarious and pathetic. Really, almost every comment here and on DA caused to snigger at its pure arrogance and lack of intelligent thought.

I am simply amused about how stupid you all are. I a clearly more smart and insightful that all of you as none of you will even bother to see from my point as view as you ignorant, blind fan-girls/fan-boys. I do hate fan-girls and fan-boys. They are some of the biggest idiots on the internet.Sure, that's a good route to go. Insult the people here as stupid. So you say we can't say how you feel. Well, that's kinda hypocritical since that's what you're trying to do with that comment by calling us stupid for disagreeing with you.


AHAHAHA *ten minutes later* HAHAHAAAAA! That is one of the most stupid, retarded things I have ever heard from a blind FMA fan-girl/fan-boy. She is one of most pathetic, weak, feminine, and insults to woman in the entire manga.

I have read the manga as have the other people I have mentioned. Why not speak of their opinions instead of all jumping on me. Are you afriadto see that /I a not the only to see the truth?

Do stop with the kitchen jokes. They are most immature, and do not effect me in the slightest as I know how pathetic and over-used they are.

---------- Post added at 02:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:47 PM ----------

For the "Naruto" comment, I have this, by Tox-chan:You keep claiming she's a weak character but by your own words you said she got her self out of a bad situation. How is that being weak. And I'm gonna ignore the new rant since it's off topic and you ignored my last rebuttal and quite blatantly so.

Meteorkeeper
05-27-2011, 02:09 PM
My my that is certainly one long rant it took me a while to get threw it.
It must have taken a while to write I give you an A for effort but a D for substance there are so many things to talk about here that I don’t know where to start so I will just say this when I watched FMA I was always impressed by Winry's strength it takes a lot of strength both mentally and physically to do half of the things she did in that anime. The moments in the anime where you would call her weak I saw strength. It is unbelievably hard to watch as someone you love go and put himself/herself into harms way and then let them go and do what must be done. (I know this to be a fact my little bro. is a marine and has almost died on multiple occasions I worry every day) And can you tell me that you wouldn’t shoot your parents murder when he is staring you in the face and instead forgive him. No I do not believe for a second that Winry was a sexiest character hell in my opinion she is one of the strongest characters in the anime.

Though in some instances I can see your side of the argument but I do believe you are looking into things that are not there or just twisting the meaning of them to suit your way of thinking it's a common thing to do when ones mind is made up on a subject. Strength can be found in even the darkest of situations one need only have an open mind and look.

NaokoElric2250
05-27-2011, 05:12 PM
My my that is certainly one long rant it took me a while to get threw it.
It must have taken a while to write I give you an A for effort but a D for substance there are so many things to talk about here that I don’t know where to start so I will just say this when I watched FMA I was always impressed by Winry's strength it takes a lot of strength both mentally and physically to do half of the things she did in that anime. The moments in the anime where you would call her weak I saw strength. It is unbelievably hard to watch as someone you love go and put himself/herself into harms way and then let them go and do what must be done. (I know this to be a fact my little bro. is a marine and has almost died on multiple occasions I worry every day) And can you tell me that you wouldn’t shoot your parents murder when he is staring you in the face and instead forgive him. No I do not believe for a second that Winry was a sexiest character hell in my opinion she is one of the strongest characters in the anime.

Though in some instances I can see your side of the argument but I do believe you are looking into things that are not there or just twisting the meaning of them to suit your way of thinking it's a common thing to do when ones mind is made up on a subject. Strength can be found in even the darkest of situations one need only have an open mind and look.

First of all, thank for responding in a non-flaming way evn tough you disagree.
Well, at least a "D" is better than an "F".
Well, what you just said further shows a message I am trying to get through to the blind flamers of DA and here: Interpretation.
You interoperate it one way, I in another.
The main one I would like to talk about is the gun scene. I would feel Winry was strong were she not have been crying (therefore showing weakness in front of your enemy, which is about the worst thing you can do in front of said enemy) falling feebly to her knees, having Edward protect her, and just sitting there uselessly afterwards.
To me, the strongest woman are Izumi and Olivier. They are real woman, despite Izumi's status as a housewife. They are brave, strong, powerful, and do not take anything
I really do not mind if people disagree, I honestly do not. It is just the people who are rude, narrow-minded, people who cannot accept that someone could have criticisms about their previous manga (or their favourite/liked series) such as all the people above you and most over on Deviantart.

---------- Post added at 10:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 PM ----------

Oh, what is your opinion on what the other people have said?

GameGeeks
05-27-2011, 05:32 PM
Probably gonna be ignored like my other posts but meh.

First of all, thank for responding in a non-flaming way evn tough you disagree.
Well, at least a "D" is better than an "F".
Well, what you just said further shows a message I am trying to get through to the blind flamers of DA and here: Interpretation.
You interoperate it one way, I in another.
The main one I would like to talk about is the gun scene. I would feel Winry was strong were she not have been crying (therefore showing weakness in front of your enemy, which is about the worst thing you can do in front of said enemy) falling feebly to her knees, having Edward protect her, and just sitting there uselessly afterwards.
To me, the strongest woman are Izumi and Olivier. They are real woman, despite Izumi's status as a housewife. They are brave, strong, powerful, and do not take anything
I really do not mind if people disagree, I honestly do not. It is just the people who are rude, narrow-minded, people who cannot accept that someone could have criticisms about their previous manga (or their favourite/liked series) such as all the people above you and most over on Deviantart.

---------- Post added at 10:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 PM ----------

Oh, what is your opinion on what the other people have said?
You seem to think everyone is narrow minded if they disagree with you. You even seem to ignore responses that go against yours. Yes, I got on you in my first post. But I never disrespected you till the pic. I just simply can't stand people who are so adamantly for a double standard. Personally, I'd like to see your take on movies like Snow White or Princess Bride. You're just looking too much into it. There's no sexism here outside of a few jokes. Which are intentional and as such done for amusement. And if you have issues with such things I recommend stepping as far away as possible from any form of comedy. Like I said, you can't be sexist towards your own gender. That just doesn't make sense. And, chances are Meteor agrees with the rest of the forum since he spoke out against you.

SpeaR
05-28-2011, 12:58 AM
tldr
Fma time period is centered around the 1900s
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fullmetal_Alchemist#Production

Capitán
05-28-2011, 01:50 AM
NaokoElric: You seem to think that characters that exude obvious femininity are weak, sexist, annoying, or not "real" women.
I just don't get that logic.

The moment a character becomes girly at some point, is the point you start to rant about them.
So what if Sakura from Naruto isn't as strong as the boys? She has other avenues that can take her up on par with the fellas, namely her intelligence and wits. That alone can set her up a candidacy among real women.

SO WHAT if Hinata is a shy, caring girl? Does that make her weak? Last time I checked, she had a determined attitude in combat along with a no-giving up mentality. She does get injured, but Naruto, Sasuke, and even Lady Tsunade get injured once in while as well. It's all part of being a ninja.
Sure when Hinata fights, she is somewhat doing it for Naruto. You may call this dependence, which is okay, because I see it as that as well. But I also see it as reinforcement during crucial and dangerous times. After all, alot of male characters think about the girl they love to get a boost of fighting spirit. This negates the notion that if a girl is dependent, that automatically makes them a burden.

Winry is not pathetic. Edward is dependent on her to maintain his automail arm. Winry may not know much about alchemy, but even out the playing field, Ed doesn't know jack about automail mechanics. Winry is doing a job that is meant for males.. I think her character is balanced well enough.

Riza. Okay she has all the resources necessary to move up the ranks and perhaps get close to the Fuhrer. But she remains by Mustang simply because she wants to. Mustang is special to her. If he was just another guy to her, I betcha 5 bucks Riza would try to take his position. Then again, I might just lose that 5 bucks because I get the feeling that Riza doesn't care about power or influence. Well thats just a hunch on my part.

About Izumi. Yes she is an awesome woman.. but the house wife part could have been left out. Being a house wife isn't sexist, it's a choice.

I will say this though: I respect your opinions, as anime (as well as most things) is open for interpretation and criticisms. But let me point out.. if a girl acts or looks girly, that does not mean squat-diddle. They can be better than the guys using any gifts/resources they have and acquired.

NaokoElric2250
05-30-2011, 08:49 PM
NaokoElric: You seem to think that characters that exude obvious femininity are weak, sexist, annoying, or not "real" women.
I just don't get that logic.

The moment a character becomes girly at some point, is the point you start to rant about them.
So what if Sakura from Naruto isn't as strong as the boys? She has other avenues that can take her up on par with the fellas, namely her intelligence and wits. That alone can set her up a candidacy among real women.

SO WHAT if Hinata is a shy, caring girl? Does that make her weak? Last time I checked, she had a determined attitude in combat along with a no-giving up mentality. She does get injured, but Naruto, Sasuke, and even Lady Tsunade get injured once in while as well. It's all part of being a ninja.
Sure when Hinata fights, she is somewhat doing it for Naruto. You may call this dependence, which is okay, because I see it as that as well. But I also see it as reinforcement during crucial and dangerous times. After all, alot of male characters think about the girl they love to get a boost of fighting spirit. This negates the notion that if a girl is dependent, that automatically makes them a burden.

Winry is not pathetic. Edward is dependent on her to maintain his automail arm. Winry may not know much about alchemy, but even out the playing field, Ed doesn't know jack about automail mechanics. Winry is doing a job that is meant for males.. I think her character is balanced well enough.

Riza. Okay she has all the resources necessary to move up the ranks and perhaps get close to the Fuhrer. But she remains by Mustang simply because she wants to. Mustang is special to her. If he was just another guy to her, I betcha 5 bucks Riza would try to take his position. Then again, I might just lose that 5 bucks because I get the feeling that Riza doesn't care about power or influence. Well thats just a hunch on my part.

About Izumi. Yes she is an awesome woman.. but the house wife part could have been left out. Being a house wife isn't sexist, it's a choice.

I will say this though: I respect your opinions, as anime (as well as most things) is open for interpretation and criticisms. But let me point out.. if a girl acts or looks girly, that does not mean squat-diddle. They can be better than the guys using any gifts/resources they have and acquired.

First of all, I did not write the “Naruto” rant. I even stated that.

Next, I cannot stand feminine woman. Prancing around in skirts and dresses, being obsessed with appearance, sometimes the colour pink and being a downright pansy. Urg. Those are not real woman. Real woman are tough and did sink into the stereotypical behaviours, dress code and attitudes of feminine woman.

Well, I think she is. Her skill are only used to serve her male friend, and to drag her away from the main plot. She still a “healer type” since she repairs flesh (almost). Not forgetting her slutty wardrobe of tube tops and mini-skirts. We know she owns several shirts, jeans, tank tops and the like. Why could Arakawa have not put her in them and give her a tank top with the jumpsuit? Oh, wait, I know why: FANSERICE. And I thought a woman would know better *shakes head*.

Yeah, but that does not mean she should serve him like a slave and think he can do a better job than her.

Being a housewife is a waste of time, even if one is as awesome as Izumi. Cooking and cleaning around the house are done when necessary, the same goes for popping down to the supermarket, they are not ‘jobs’.

Well, thank you :). To me, it does. It means you are conforming to stereotypes, and showing everyone what they expect to say. Not to mention most are either pathetic, crybaby wimps (like Winry) who do mind being bossed around. They are not real woman to me. Real woman are intelligent, tough and willing to stand up for themselves. I do love intelliget people more than voilent people though, but Sakura and Winry are complete complete ditzes.

blueangel06661
05-30-2011, 09:18 PM
Next, I cannot stand feminine woman. Prancing around in skirts and dresses, being obsessed with appearance, sometimes the colour pink and being a downright pansy. Urg. Those are not real woman. Real woman are tough and did sink into the stereotypical behaviours, dress code and attitudes of feminine woman.

I am throughly offended. You must be some big cow who can't fit into skirts and dresses. Who wears nothing but black clothes and make-up like a rainbow threw up on you. So I'll offend you right back. You just said that I was not a real woman. My whole wardrobe consist of pink. I own more skirts and shoes than you probably would know what to deal with. I think this whole rant is you being jealous and forcing only real woman are strong. But what you are putting forth is a minority. and "strong women" are creepy as heck.


Being a housewife is a waste of time, even if one is as awesome as Izumi. Cooking and cleaning around the house are done when necessary, the same goes for popping down to the supermarket, they are not ‘jobs’

I imagine no food in your fridge except a stack of twinkies. Dishes pots and pans all over your kitchen counter. Only to be cleaned when needed again. And the use of the same pair of pants 3 or more times until you get around to cleaning them. I'm a girl. I like cleaning I like nice clothes. I care about how I look.
I like to cook. It dang sure doesn't mean I'm not a "real" girl. Sure I fit into the sterotype but so what. I'm as real as I can get. I'll put you in your place. I'll hang out with the guys and go race cars. Roll around in the mudd and have a good time. I cry when my feelings are hurt. I can't lift anything more than my own weight.

But you are just pathetic and need to get a life. PS. you don't know what fanservice is...

THIS... is fanservice.

http://www.furuanimepanikku.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/hsotd.jpg

GameGeeks
05-30-2011, 09:18 PM
First of all, I did not write the “Naruto” rant. I even stated that.

Next, I cannot stand feminine woman. Prancing around in skirts and dresses, being obsessed with appearance, sometimes the colour pink and being a downright pansy. Urg. Those are not real woman. Real woman are tough and did sink into the stereotypical behaviours, dress code and attitudes of feminine woman.Um, since when? I've met women exactly like that and I've met woman who are in the middle. In fact, I'd put most women in the middle. Sorry, but that's just so...so...

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/GameGeeks/3096466638_c29d97cb75_o.jpg


Well, I think she is. Her skill are only used to serve her male friend, and to drag her away from the main plot. She still a “healer type” since she repairs flesh (almost). Not forgetting her slutty wardrobe of tube tops and mini-skirts. We know she owns several shirts, jeans, tank tops and the like. Why could Arakawa have not put her in them and give her a tank top with the jumpsuit? Oh, wait, I know why: FANSERICE. And I thought a woman would know better *shakes head*. This is fan service:

http://www.motivatr.net/creations/rickroller/fanservice.jpg

What you described is a simple outfit and doesn't have to be slutty.

http://i803.photobucket.com/albums/yy319/edhering/Anime/lucy-tube-top.jpg

Doesn't really show any more cleavage then if it had shoulder straps on it.



Yeah, but that does not mean she should serve him like a slave and think he can do a better job than her.Just a personality trait. Plenty of people think like that. Male or Female.


Being a housewife is a waste of time, even if one is as awesome as Izumi. Cooking and cleaning around the house are done when necessary, the same goes for popping down to the supermarket, they are not ‘jobs’.Some woman like being housewives. There's nothing wrong with it. Again, falls under personality.


Well, thank you :). To me, it does. It means you are conforming to stereotypes, and showing everyone what they expect to say. Not to mention most are either pathetic, crybaby wimps (like Winry) who do mind being bossed around. They are not real woman to me. Real woman are intelligent, tough and willing to stand up for themselves. I do love intelliget people more than voilent people though, but Sakura and Winry are complete complete ditzes.Again I refer you to Homer. Not everyone is strong willed. Yes, there are stereotypes, yes people fall into them. But here's a kicker. In a story there's archetypes. And every character in a story falls into an archetype. Chances are Izumi happens to fit into the house wife archetype. Really you just need to do the following:

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/GameGeeks/STFU_and_GTFOashx.jpg

Miss Moonlight
05-30-2011, 10:00 PM
Holy balls. How do you expect anyone to read all of that?

Japan is a sexually repressed country, so it makes sense that most of their animation and manga would reflect that. It's an art form.

Also, if you want to have a legitimate argument about it, you need to shorten your initial post to oh ... something that's not 45 pages long. That will help. Or not, if your original argument sucks anyway.


First of all, I did not write the “Naruto” rant. I even stated that.

Next, I cannot stand feminine woman. Prancing around in skirts and dresses, being obsessed with appearance, sometimes the colour pink and being a downright pansy. Urg. Those are not real woman. Real woman are tough and did sink into the stereotypical behaviours, dress code and attitudes of feminine woman.

also, lels. You don't want to date women who act like the percieved gender role? that's fine, but you can't fault those women for the fact that society fosters that role and then has women play it.

Also, you can't really say that a woman in the traditional gender role isn't a "real" woman, because that's ridiculous. What constitutes a "real" woman or man anyway? I really dislike that kind of gender shaming. If you want to date a woman who acts like a man, those types are out there.


and "strong women" are creepy as heck.

I thoroughly disagree, unless their name is Helga and they look like they could crush you just by looking at you.

Souji Seta
05-31-2011, 03:07 AM
uhh... man, the OP post is looooonnnngggg! I didn't bother to read much of it...

well anyway, Fullmetal Alchemist is centered in a military setting, right? So ain't it normal to have more guy characters than female? Sure there are female soldiers but not as many as guys. I haven't seen a female ranger or green beret yet that for sure...

in any case, it's good that you have your own opinion but it ain't cool to push it unto others, everyone has their own way of thinking.

I, for one, don't really think it's sexist. Let's take one character, "Lust," she wears kinda revealing clothing, right? well, what do you expect? her name is "lust" afterall... when you think about it, it's right in every way.

I ain't gonna argue, but I'm just asking for you to stop and think first before doing something like this. It's either you're really a women's rights activist or just plain asking for trouble since a lot of people are obviously going to prove you wrong.

36gamer
05-31-2011, 03:50 AM
I was done with this argument a while ago after realizing you are very stupid and your opinion doesn't matter and isn't valid in the slightest therefore your lack of validity in your argument has caused me to completely ignore you.

this , howevver, cought my attention and made me laugh hysterically


Really, almost every comment here and on DA caused me to snigger at its pure arrogance and lack of intelligent thought.

I am simply amused about how stupid you all are. I am clearly more smart and insightful that all of you as none of you will even bother to see from my point as view as you are ignorant, blind fan-girls/fan-boys.

LOL omg omg, i think i need a tissue. just that's freaking hilarious. you do realize that that is EXACTLY what me, and everyone else here thinks about you right?

btw arrogance is alright if its just confidence in being correct. Think for a second (if you have to wait til your done pms'in thats fine) we are all giving intelligent and valid arguments (aside from a bit of trolling that can be helped as you baited us into it) and you are the lone person who is standing alone. guess why your alone. because your wrong.

blueangel06661
05-31-2011, 08:44 AM
I thoroughly disagree, unless their name is Helga and they look like they could crush you just by looking at you.

Nothing about this is attractive. Lol

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_nvDWp8u1GAM/SJkZWhu0XfI/AAAAAAAAAGU/B56WhCXY9gQ/s320/strong_muscular_woman.jpg

Isaach9565
05-31-2011, 08:52 AM
I'm pretty sure fullmetal alchemist is not that sexy but a anime that is sexy and horrific is highschool of the dead

Capitán
05-31-2011, 09:30 PM
First of all, I did not write the “Naruto” rant. I even stated that.

Next, I cannot stand feminine woman. Prancing around in skirts and dresses, being obsessed with appearance, sometimes the colour pink and being a downright pansy. Urg. Those are not real woman. Real woman are tough and did sink into the stereotypical behaviours, dress code and attitudes of feminine woman.

Well, I think she is. Her skill are only used to serve her male friend, and to drag her away from the main plot. She still a “healer type” since she repairs flesh (almost). Not forgetting her slutty wardrobe of tube tops and mini-skirts. We know she owns several shirts, jeans, tank tops and the like. Why could Arakawa have not put her in them and give her a tank top with the jumpsuit? Oh, wait, I know why: FANSERICE. And I thought a woman would know better *shakes head*.

Yeah, but that does not mean she should serve him like a slave and think he can do a better job than her.

Being a housewife is a waste of time, even if one is as awesome as Izumi. Cooking and cleaning around the house are done when necessary, the same goes for popping down to the supermarket, they are not ‘jobs’.

Well, thank you :). To me, it does. It means you are conforming to stereotypes, and showing everyone what they expect to say. Not to mention most are either pathetic, crybaby wimps (like Winry) who do mind being bossed around. They are not real woman to me. Real woman are intelligent, tough and willing to stand up for themselves. I do love intelliget people more than voilent people though, but Sakura and Winry are complete complete ditzes.

Mademoiselle, I know you did not write the Naruto portion.. but you used it as an example to back up your argument.

With all due respect ma'am, thats your definition of a real woman. Other people have different opinions. So lets not attack "feminine" girls shall we? ^_^

I agree with you that about the fanservice. Winry wears tube tops and skirts during casual occasions.. and that was appealing to some guys (myself included). But when she was working, she wore her work orientated clothes like the jumpsuit and stuff.

Riza thought of herself as a slave? Judging by her character and personality.. I don't think she wants to be treated like a slave. Again.. she is a subordinate for her own reasons.

Izumi runs a butchery with her husband, doesn't she? One needs home economic skills to be properly handle meat products and the like. So being a housewife isn't really a waste of time. You're right that being a housewife is not a job, but like I said earlier, it's a choice. She chose to be one in the same respect that you chose not to be one.

I agree, real woman have intelligence and various strengths. I do not agree with you about me conforming to stereotypes.
This is because I believe a woman can be what she wants to be. I prefer a girl that can wear a skirt with no problem.. but if she doesn't want to (like you), then thats cool too.

NaokoElric2250
06-01-2011, 11:30 AM
I am throughly offended. You must be some big cow who can't fit into skirts and dresses. Who wears nothing but black clothes and make-up like a rainbow threw up on you. So I'll offend you right back. You just said that I was not a real woman. My whole wardrobe consist of pink. I own more skirts and shoes than you probably would know what to deal with. I think this whole rant is you being jealous and forcing only real woman are strong. But what you are putting forth is a minority. and "strong women" are creepy as heck.



I imagine no food in your fridge except a stack of twinkies. Dishes pots and pans all over your kitchen counter. Only to be cleaned when needed again. And the use of the same pair of pants 3 or more times until you get around to cleaning them. I'm a girl. I like cleaning I like nice clothes. I care about how I look.
I like to cook. It dang sure doesn't mean I'm not a "real" girl. Sure I fit into the sterotype but so what. I'm as real as I can get. I'll put you in your place. I'll hang out with the guys and go race cars. Roll around in the mudd and have a good time. I cry when my feelings are hurt. I can't lift anything more than my own weight.

But you are just pathetic and need to get a life. PS. you don't know what fanservice is...

THIS... is fanservice.

http://www.furuanimepanikku.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/hsotd.jpg

I do apologise, as your measly attempt to offend me was all but futile, as none of that described me in the slightest, nor did describe my home. I am underweight, and I have been since birth. Mostly of my clothing are slightly too big for me, as I am slender, but rather short, and again I have always been so.

I cannot cook due to my eyesight and I do not have the patience, I would not resort to ready-made or ready-meal crap though. My mother cooks for me. I am obsessively clean and tidy; I cannot stand mess, disorganisation, or dirtiness. We do not have ‘twinkes’ over here.

I hardly ever wear make-up. I felt it to be a waste of time, and since I am ugly anyway, it does not really matter. I only put on a bit of nail polish and some lip-gloss or lipstick, such as I am going to do when I go to my prom (I am not wearing a dress, but a jumpsuit, as I could not find any dinner suits. It is in identical to a dress, but instead of a skirt part, it has trousers).

My clothing is aplenty and they are nice as well. What I meant by cleaning when is needed was clearly stupidly misinterpreted by a person as stupid as you. When I said when ‘they need done’ I mean after they would used, you fool!

So many absurd and improvable assumptions have you made. It is almost laughable, but I will not grant you that dignity. Winry’s outfits are fan service. No female mechanic I have seen in real life wear a fucking boob tube under their jumpsuit, and though there may not many, I have seen a few. If they, I would hope they wound instructed to return home and change into something more suitable.

I have a life, as that is over-used and ineffective attempt at an insult. I have a great life, and good people around me, even if I do becoming depressed quite many times. I am intelligent and knowledgeable, and I know this as other have informed me of this.

I want to clear this up too. Woman can cry, cry all they want in fact, they should just save it for the bedroom than insulting real woman like me who only do in their room, albeit rarely and for a very good reason, not the shit that most woman cry over. "Oh, I just broke up boo hoo hoo", "I'm been proposed to, boo hoo hoo" (even thouh she can do it too) "I'm geting married boo hoo hoo", and other stupid things. "Woman and girls cry too much and men and boys do not cry enough".

blueangel06661
06-01-2011, 11:42 AM
I do apologise, as your measly attempt to offend me was all but futile, as none of that described me in the slightest, nor did describe my home. I am underweight, and I have been since birth. Mostly of my clothing are slightly too big for me, as I am slender, but rather short, and again I have always been so.

Pathetic excuse. I'm 19. I weigh 83lbs and I'm about 4'10. I find clothes that fit me and I can still wear the ones from 6th grade in middle school. Elementary too except they look so tacky there's no way I even would. I can wear prom dresses sure most are for taller people but there are some that are for shorties. You're not even trying.

And women cry when they break up with someone or is proposed to. The first is because it hurts. Have you ever had a BF. To love someone and be so open with them and in most cases have the S word with them. It's hard to suddenly have it end. Though hysterical is uncalled for but crying about it doesn't hurt anyone. I'd cry if my bf broke up with me. But would still have a head on my shoulders. And getting proposed to is a big deal in a womans life. If you really love someone you can't wait for them to pop the question.

And ps. You are really stuck up. Calling yourself intelligent is really ignorant. :| What a turn off.

NaokoElric2250
06-01-2011, 12:00 PM
Nothing about this is attractive. Lol

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_nvDWp8u1GAM/SJkZWhu0XfI/AAAAAAAAAGU/B56WhCXY9gQ/s320/strong_muscular_woman.jpg

Well I definetly agree with you there. Woman do not have the body type for that. They can be toned, but some of these female bodybuilders, who have more muscles the men, just make my shiver in the creepiness of it.

Anoleis
06-01-2011, 12:16 PM
Woman can cry, cry all they want in fact, they should just save it for the bedroom than insulting real woman like me who only do in their room, albeit rarely and for a very good reason, not the grozit that most woman cry over.

>Other women shouldn't cry because it makes me look bad.

Not only are you insufferably stupid, you're beyond ignorant as well. How did you manage to stretch your anus to such a degree as to allow your ridiculously inflated head to enter it?

NaokoElric2250
06-01-2011, 12:21 PM
Pathetic excuse. I'm 19. I weigh 83lbs and I'm about 4'10. I find clothes that fit me and I can still wear the ones from 6th grade in middle school. Elementary too except they look so tacky there's no way I even would. I can wear prom dresses sure most are for taller people but there are some that are for shorties. You're not even trying.
And women cry when they break up with someone or is proposed to. The first is because it hurts. Have you ever had a BF. To love someone and be so open with them and in most cases have the S word with them. It's hard to suddenly have it end. Though hysterical is uncalled for but crying about it doesn't hurt anyone. I'd cry if my bf broke up with me. But would still have a head on my shoulders. And getting proposed to is a big deal in a womans life. If you really love someone you can't wait for them to pop the question.
And ps. You are really stuck up. Calling yourself intelligent is really ignorant. :| What a turn off.
*Coverts to metric system* 5st 13lb…that is even less than me. And I am assuming 4'10 is the same as 4’ 90” here, so you are about the same height as me.
The trousers legs fit, but I not the waistline. I would rather have to were a belt than to go hunting across the whole town just to find some trousers that actually fit around there. I have some nice belts that though quite random, going from a sparkly, pink leopard-print one to one which is fastened with a simple knot.

It is over. Deal with it. There is not point in sitting there sobbing over it, I will not change anything. That is what I think.

The solution is to not get involved until you are clearly sure. I understand you cannot tell that until you have entered the relationship, but you could al least give it good long thought.
 
No, I have been informed so, and in comparison to some of the retards that were in my classes, then yes I am. One idiot did not know what the listless meant, even though they and I were, at that time, in fifth year for goodness sake! Tat could just because I love learning and reading, and therefore expanded my knowledge and vocabulary though that, but most the others had barely picked up a book in their lives it seemed.

However, if you were to met me, you would soon see I am the most pessimistic person you will ever met, and have little confidence in myself. And I know it, but I cannot change it. I do care if it is a 'turn off' or not. That implies sexual attraction, which I do not do. I would like someone for their personality, not because I am superficial and like them because they look good. Though that is subject to interpretation.

blueangel06661
06-01-2011, 12:25 PM
No, I have been informed so, and in comparison to some of the retards that were in my classes, then yes I am.

Wow educated people must be really selfish. I'm really glad I'm not intelligent. Calling people retarded. That is so elementary school talk right there. :\ I hope your unborn child has Down Syndrome.


However, if you were to met me, you would soon see I am the most pessimistic person you will ever met, and have little confidence in myself. And I know it, but I cannot change it. I do care if it is a 'turn off' or not.

All I see is a whiny girl............................. Nothing like your godly definition of "real woman" Wow who knew you were a hypocrite too. This argument.. You just lost. Didn't you say they needed to be emotionally strong and what not. Hmmmmmmmmmm pessimistic typically are not emotionally strong. Hung out with one at lunch. He made me want to choke him nearly everyday.

GameGeeks
06-01-2011, 12:38 PM
I do apologise, as your measly attempt to offend me was all but futile, as none of that described me in the slightest, nor did describe my home. I am underweight, and I have been since birth. Mostly of my clothing are slightly too big for me, as I am slender, but rather short, and again I have always been so.So you're malnourished then.


I cannot cook due to my eyesight and I do not have the patience, I would not resort to ready-made or ready-meal crap though. My mother cooks for me. I am obsessively clean and tidy; I cannot stand mess, disorganisation, or dirtiness. We do not have ‘twinkes’ over here.So, what's your plan then when you move out on your own? And I thought real women didn't do housework stuff. Certainly seems to be one of the things your against.


I hardly ever wear make-up. I felt it to be a waste of time, and since I am ugly anyway, it does not really matter. I only put on a bit of nail polish and some lip-gloss or lipstick, such as I am going to do when I go to my prom (I am not wearing a dress, but a jumpsuit, as I could not find any dinner suits. It is in identical to a dress, but instead of a skirt part, it has trousers).So, just because you don't do something it means real women don't do that. Hate to break it to you but the majority of women tend to be nurturing and it's only natural for someone to want to look good. Part of it is having to do with attracting a mate. Even if you don't plan to marry anytime soon or even get in a relationship. The instinct is still there. And if you want proof this is common throughout the animal kingdom.


My clothing is aplenty and they are nice as well. What I meant by cleaning when is needed was clearly stupidly misinterpreted by a person as stupid as you. When I said when ‘they need done’ I mean after they would used, you fool!Yeah, insult harder. Not quite feeling it since you're the one that keeps appearing stupid. Evidenced by the fact that no one has agreed with you yet. Not to mention at least Blue knows how to use the English language properly.


So many absurd and improvable assumptions have you made. It is almost laughable, but I will not grant you that dignity. Winry’s outfits are fan service. No female mechanic I have seen in real life wear a fucking boob tube under their jumpsuit, and though there may not many, I have seen a few. If they, I would hope they wound instructed to return home and change into something more suitable.

The same could be said about you and the manga/anime. I showed you what fan service was and so did Blue. An outfit unless it's obviously skimpy isn't fan service. It's just an outfit and a tube top isn't revealing at all. There's plenty of woman who wear similar things, just with thin straps, otherwise there's no difference. Even then I'm sure those same women may have a tube top or two. It's common today. If you want woman to cover themselves up I suggest you move to an Arab nation. You'll be much happier there I'm sure.


I have a life, as that is over-used and ineffective attempt at an insult. I have a great life, and good people around me, even if I do becoming depressed quite many times. I am intelligent and knowledgeable, and I know this as other have informed me of this.Apparently you're not knowledgeable about the English language.


I want to clear this up too. Woman can cry, cry all they want in fact, they should just save it for the bedroom than insulting real woman like me who only do in their room, albeit rarely and for a very good reason, not the shit that most woman cry over. "Oh, I just broke up boo hoo hoo", "I'm been proposed to, boo hoo hoo" (even thouh she can do it too) "I'm geting married boo hoo hoo", and other stupid things. "Woman and girls cry too much and men and boys do not cry enough".Let me put that this way. Women tend to be more emotional. That's genetic since it serves the role they where genetically designed for. Which is to be nurturing and supportive to their children. Men where designed to be protectors and support the woman and child. Yes we've changed a lot since we first evolved but not everything has been evolved out of us and some of it never will be. There's nothing wrong with that. This explains why men rarely cry. Does that mean we don't feel sad? No, it's just not a natural instinct for us to shed tears.



*Coverts to metric system* 5st 13lb…that is even less than me. And I am assuming 4'10 is the same as 4’ 90” here, so you are about the same height as me.
The trousers legs fit, but I not the waistline. I would rather have to were a belt than to go hunting across the whole town just to find some trousers that actually fit around there. I have some nice belts that though quite random, going from a sparkly, pink leopard-print one to one which is fastened with a simple knot.

It is over. Deal with it. There is not point in sitting there sobbing over it, I will not change anything. That is what I think.

The solution is to not get involved until you are clearly sure. I understand you cannot tell that until you have entered the relationship, but you could al least give it good long thought.
 
No, I have been informed so, and in comparison to some of the retards that were in my classes, then yes I am. One idiot did not know what the listless meant, even though they and I were, at that time, in fifth year for goodness sake! Tat could just because I love learning and reading, and therefore expanded my knowledge and vocabulary though that, but most the others had barely picked up a book in their lives it seemed.

However, if you were to met me, you would soon see I am the most pessimistic person you will ever met, and have little confidence in myself. And I know it, but I cannot change it. I do care if it is a 'turn off' or not. That implies sexual attraction, which I do not do. I would like someone for their personality, not because I am superficial and like them because they look good. Though that is subject to interpretation.
All I got from that is that by your description of a real woman, you're not one at all.

Now, I once again refer you to Captain Jean-Luc Picard.

Tetsanosuke
06-01-2011, 01:42 PM
I've read maybe 40-55% of what you wrote, and in all honesty, though you have your right to an opinion- it seems like a pointless debate; if it was a debate at all. The author wrote the story, which means, the author 'wanted' the story that way. It's her fiction to play with, not ours. Not every story has to be about female power and vice versa with males. Shonen is a genre made for males, usually with action packed sequences and protagonists that young males can connect with. Such a genre capitalizes on the male desires; like shapely females and strong protagonists, and quests for inner strength.

Let's get a definition of Sexism, shall we? (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=sexism&tbs=dfn:1&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=k3HmTdcFjveAB6O37JwL&sqi=2&ved=0CBoQkQ4&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=e4b12d60a2759bc7&biw=1280&bih=641)

With these definitions in mind, let's think about the purpose of a story. It's entertainment, it can be used to teach life lessons as our ancestors have used them, and otherwise they can just be a general form of expression- even catharsis- as poetry can be. In this case we know a story such as FMA is about entertainment on the outside- regardless of it's inner themes. Truthfully I have not read or seen all of the series- but this is irrelevant, when it comes to the point at hand.

You are saying that it is sexist in general, but have you not thought about the author's intent? Do you really think it's plausible that a writer has a secret inferiority complex and wishes to hide it behind the guise of a manga/anime? Do you really believe she's just some woman who has an inner angst with feminine pride, and wishes to spite equality? OR JUST maybe it is more plausible that she had an idea for a story that JUST SO HAPPENED to have male main protagonists- and that the story JUST SO HAPPENED to focus on their escapades.

You make it seem like you think any story that just so happens to have males at their pivoting points, as main characters from which the audience sees the world, is sexist. Well, I don't see any discrimination, or prejudice going on here. It's one thing to blatantly discriminate against the other gender, no, another person- but it's completely another thing to interpret objectively neutral material as being sexist. =o

You can beg the question all you want, and try to interpret the story as sexist, but just because a story has male main characters doesn't outright mean it's sexist. And don't bring up your point that 'she sees men and women in a such and such way just because she draws them that way', maybe that's just how she's able to draw, maybe it's her style? Or maybe she felt anime/manga was such an open canvas that she could paint her own fantasy world of gender aesthetics, those that would appeal not just to her or the audience but also the story. The buff guy is buff because he's really strong, most of the males in that show seem to come from a military-esque background from what I've seen, so why can't they have the figures to show it? Maybe she represents females in a physically shapely light because she feels all women are beautiful regardless of their shape? As for personalities isn't it possible a character, and again I use this phrase, JUST SO HAPPENS to have a ditzy personality- just like how that guy down the street from you might be a creeper? Do you really believe she created these characters for the specific purpose of being some strange sexist representation of her worldview?

Look; I mean no offense, it just seems like you are beating a dead horse with this. If you don't like how aesthetics sell, and how authors envision their characters, than become one yourself and try to change the mainstream. Otherwise; either use it or get off the toilet.

.___.; Whew, there's my two cents.

NaokoElric2250
06-01-2011, 02:40 PM
Wow educated people must be really selfish. I'm really glad I'm not intelligent. Calling people retarded. That is so elementary school talk right there. :\ I hope your unborn child has Down Syndrome.



All I see is a whiny girl............................. Nothing like your godly definition of "real woman" Wow who knew you were a hypocrite too. This argument.. You just lost. Didn't you say they needed to be emotionally strong and what not. Hmmmmmmmmmm pessimistic typically are not emotionally strong. Hung out with one at lunch. He made me want to choke him nearly everyday.

I do not give a damn if a child has Downs Syndrome. That is genetic and cannot be changed. Why the HELL would I be so heartless as to chastise someone with that condition? I have known people who had it and they lived quite normal lives.
Well, we do have a tendency to complain. That is partially the definition of it.

GameGeeks
06-01-2011, 02:51 PM
I do not give a damn if a child has Downs Syndrome. That is genetic and cannot be changed. Why the HELL would I be so heartless as to chastise someone with that condition? I have known people who had it and they lived quite normal lives.
Well, we do have a tendency to complain. That is partially the definition of it.
So is the fact women are more emotional. Just like it's genetic that women can't handle the cold as well as men. Sure there's exceptions. But those exceptions don't apply to most people since the definition of exception is diversion of the norm. Just shut up already. All you're doing is arguing with Blue now (and losing), and aren't even on topic in your own thread. Where's Picard when you need him.

NaokoElric2250
06-01-2011, 02:54 PM
I've read maybe 40-55% of what you wrote, and in all honesty, though you have your right to an opinion- it seems like a pointless debate; if it was a debate at all. The author wrote the story, which means, the author 'wanted' the story that way. It's her fiction to play with, not ours. Not every story has to be about female power and vice versa with males. Shonen is a genre made for males, usually with action packed sequences and protagonists that young males can connect with. Such a genre capitalizes on the male desires; like shapely females and strong protagonists, and quests for inner strength.

Let's get a definition of Sexism, shall we? (http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=sexism&tbs=dfn:1&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=k3HmTdcFjveAB6O37JwL&sqi=2&ved=0CBoQkQ4&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=e4b12d60a2759bc7&biw=1280&bih=641)

With these definitions in mind, let's think about the purpose of a story. It's entertainment, it can be used to teach life lessons as our ancestors have used them, and otherwise they can just be a general form of expression- even catharsis- as poetry can be. In this case we know a story such as FMA is about entertainment on the outside- regardless of it's inner themes. Truthfully I have not read or seen all of the series- but this is irrelevant, when it comes to the point at hand.

You are saying that it is sexist in general, but have you not thought about the author's intent? Do you really think it's plausible that a writer has a secret inferiority complex and wishes to hide it behind the guise of a manga/anime? Do you really believe she's just some woman who has an inner angst with feminine pride, and wishes to spite equality? OR JUST maybe it is more plausible that she had an idea for a story that JUST SO HAPPENED to have male main protagonists- and that the story JUST SO HAPPENED to focus on their escapades.

You make it seem like you think any story that just so happens to have males at their pivoting points, as main characters from which the audience sees the world, is sexist. Well, I don't see any discrimination, or prejudice going on here. It's one thing to blatantly discriminate against the other gender, no, another person- but it's completely another thing to interpret objectively neutral material as being sexist. =o

You can beg the question all you want, and try to interpret the story as sexist, but just because a story has male main characters doesn't outright mean it's sexist. And don't bring up your point that 'she sees men and women in a such and such way just because she draws them that way', maybe that's just how she's able to draw, maybe it's her style? Or maybe she felt anime/manga was such an open canvas that she could paint her own fantasy world of gender aesthetics, those that would appeal not just to her or the audience but also the story. The buff guy is buff because he's really strong, most of the males in that show seem to come from a military-esque background from what I've seen, so why can't they have the figures to show it? Maybe she represents females in a physically shapely light because she feels all women are beautiful regardless of their shape? As for personalities isn't it possible a character, and again I use this phrase, JUST SO HAPPENS to have a ditzy personality- just like how that guy down the street from you might be a creeper? Do you really believe she created these characters for the specific purpose of being some strange sexist representation of her worldview?

Look; I mean no offense, it just seems like you are beating a dead horse with this. If you don't like how aesthetics sell, and how authors envision their characters, than become one yourself and try to change thse mainstream. Otherwise; either use it or get off the toilet.

.___.; Whew, there's my two cents.

I do not think that a story with a main male lead is sexist. It pisses me off when a woman does it and badly. J.K Rowling did it right, Arakawa did not. When it has a male protagonist and the female characters are not placed in minority or secondary roles to the males, when written by a female, unlike FMA, then is ok. If not…then the rants sums it up. When the female cast is many times smaller than that of the male cast and is barely in the spotlight, with most scenes containing just one female (usually fucking crying while no-one else is, screaming when no-one else, being frightened when no-one else is, acting like a ditz and getting into trouble when no-one else is…) or none at all, then yes it is sexist for a woman do this.
She give them those personalities, they did not come into being, she thought about them and made them so.

No. She did not realise that, but I certainly did, and never will I understand how on Earth a woman could write a series such as this.

blueangel06661
06-01-2011, 03:45 PM
Yo yo yo I just heard you cried and left Deviant Art. What happened to being strong? Can't take the heat. LOL. Only whiny loser women cry when someone doesn't like them and calls themselves ugly -reference to earlier in the thread- [That's what 11 year old emo girls on myspace do]

Seems like everyone over there is happy. :]

In any case. And it says you watch these shows "The Simpsons", "Futrurama", "Family Guy" ........ Those are more "sexist" than FMA. Such a hypocrite indeed.

And I found this quote from you


JUSTIN BEIBER PERFUME

Not forgetting that Justin Beiber is crap, but What does a BOY know about FEMALE perfumes? NOTHING! And vbise versa for that matter. link (http://naokoelric2250.deviantart.com/journal/40849648/)

Aren't you being sexist for saying a guy can't know anything about perfume? I hate to break it to you but the lingerie company known as Victoria's Secrete was created by a guy. I'm sure half of the perfumes in existence are made by guys just as much as by girls. Just like with female clothing and such. So you want girls to do guy things but gosh forbid if a guy does things related to girl products.

Todoroki
06-01-2011, 03:58 PM
Naoko, stop being so emo and let it go, your argument has no substance and with your whining you are contradicting what you are trying to preach.

animeyay
06-01-2011, 04:17 PM
Whoa, this thread is still ongoing??? How long has it been?

Naoko, please, for the sake of world peace, I repeat:

http://trollcats.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/you_have_abandoned_your_judgment_trollcat.jpg

It's become quite obvious that this argument is pointless and uncompromisable, so let's stop wasting internet space and brain cells.

Anoleis
06-01-2011, 04:46 PM
I do think that a story with a main male lead is sexist. It pisses me off when a woman does it and badly. J.K Rowling did it right,
Did you even read Harry Potter?

Mrs. Weasley is a house wife- Something you think is a waste of time.
Hermione cries, a lot- something you find weak.
Bellatrix Lestrange wants to implant Voldemort's "wand" in herself, not mentioning that she's emotionally and mentally unstable.
Fleur Delacor was a pretty pretty princess, all sorts of girly.
Ginny was easily manipulated by a book.
Trelawney is basically given a home and job out of pity.
Umbridge was a pink fanatic, and had a fetish for cats.
Nemphadora is a klutz, and cried when she couldn't get Lupin.

Clearly, by your definition of sexism, Rowling is an absolutely horrible misogynist.

blueangel06661
06-01-2011, 05:02 PM
Don't forget.. Harry Potter is the main male lead. No matter how you look at it. It's named HARRY POTTER. Not Harry Potter and Hermine in some fine print

Token Black Guy
06-01-2011, 06:46 PM
Man this chick is contradicting herself and basically not making a good argument at all. Basically just making herself look really dumb and ignorant. To put into simple terms:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svwGRJA28lY&feature=player_embedded

And Naoko, if you still wanna whine about the way women are portrayed in FMA(which has an Industrial revolution styled setting, even though i'm not really a fan of the show), you can put deez in your mouth:

http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/203621833/Planters_Peanuts.jpg

Tetsanosuke
06-01-2011, 06:52 PM
Did you even read Harry Potter?

Mrs. Weasley is a house wife- Something you think is a waste of time.
Hermione cries, a lot- something you find weak.
Bellatrix Lestrange wants to implant Voldemort's "wand" in herself, not mentioning that she's emotionally and mentally unstable.
Fleur Delacor was a pretty pretty princess, all sorts of girly.
Ginny was easily manipulated by a book.
Trelawney is basically given a home and job out of pity.
Umbridge was a pink fanatic, and had a fetish for cats.
Nemphadora is a klutz, and cried when she couldn't get Lupin.

Clearly, by your definition of sexism, Rowling is an absolutely horrible misogynist.

I have to say this quote here destroys the Harry Potter defense.

And yes, she did think about and create them, thus bringing them into being. That's how things are brought into our abstract reality. But what I'm trying to tell you is, that it is far less likely her 'INTENT' is that of sexism-based ideals, instead of a story the way she wanted to write it, With leads that just so happen to be male. Next you'll be telling me Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds was sexist because most of the leading roles are male, and yet, it has nothing to do with themes of gender power.

Just because alphabet soup has noodle letters in it doesn't mean it'll telling children to commit suicide in the school bathroom. What I'm trying to get across is; you can have a curvy ditsy female character in a series, but that doesn't mean the series is sexist.

Would you agree on the opposite end on the spectrum that anime/manga that involves main female leads with few male characters who are placed stereotypically to the side as sexist too? Angelic Layer is an anime series with mostly main female leads, where the male characters are more just a part of the side of the story, and are even the emotional support at times. By similar thought processes here, if I'm gathering right, this would be an anime sexist towards men, correct? Though if you feel this way I whole-heartedly disagree.

As it can go both ways, and if you disagree with that than that's hypocritical.

I'm not trying to tell you to feel differently or admit some lame internet form of defeat, what I am asking you is to open your eyes to objective logic- outside the box even. Just because you paint an exquisite picture of a duck in the waters of a beautiful glade doesn't mean that picture represents Duck-Supremacy. Am I right?

NaokoElric2250
06-02-2011, 03:33 PM
Yo yo yo I just heard you cried and left Deviant Art. What happened to being strong? Can't take the heat. LOL. Only whiny loser women cry when someone doesn't like them and calls themselves ugly -reference to earlier in the thread- [That's what 11 year old emo girls on myspace do]

Seems like everyone over there is happy. :]

In any case. And it says you watch these shows "The Simpsons", "Futrurama", "Family Guy" ........ Those are more "sexist" than FMA. Such a hypocrite indeed.

And I found this quote from you



Aren't you being sexist for saying a guy can't know anything about perfume? I hate to break it to you but the lingerie company known as Victoria's Secrete was created by a guy. I'm sure half of the perfumes in existence are made by guys just as much as by girls. Just like with female clothing and such. So you want girls to do guy things but gosh forbid if a guy does things related to girl products.

Did you not read the ‘vise versa’ part? I stated that woman should design male clothing/perfume either, not just one side. You clearly did not understand what I was saying. ‘Vice versa’ is a Latin phase that, in modern terns, means that something previously said applies in the opposite situation. That is what I meant.

I do understand there are good male designers, and good male fashion-savvy people in regards to woman, such as Gok Wan. However, here is the problem: most of the clothing they design are feminine. They are not even in the middle of the “Tomboy - Girly Girl” spectrum, they are feminine. If a mans wants to design something for a woman, then they should make it neutral, not all-out feminine crap. And those men designing female lingerie really saw something about them, do you not think. What is the point in designer pants and bras, anyway? No one is going to see them expect perhaps a partner. If I had partner and she/he said “Check these designer lingerie/boxers” I would be thinking, “…and your point is?”

I just think we know more about our own gender, and therefore will understand what our own gender likes. If someone wants to branch out into the design/story of the opposite gender, well good for them, they should just make sure they did it right.

One female deviant, whose usernae escapes me right now, was kind of sexist. She said FMA would not be dones as good with females *shakes head*.

blueangel06661
06-02-2011, 03:41 PM
Did you not read the ‘vise versa’ part? I stated that woman should design male clothing/perfume either, not just one side. You clearly did not understand what I was saying. ‘Vice versa’ is a Latin phase that, in modern terns, means that something previously said applies in the opposite situation. That is what I meant.

... You for one are not intelligent I know what vice versa means. And I know you googled it. On top of that.. You are being sexist by saying men should only deal with men things and woman should only do with woman things? But yet your argument is that you want women to be able to do mens chores instead of womens chores. :|

In the end you are still discriminating against sexes.

Wanna join in a lesbian orgy.. only girls know how to pleasure other girls.. Men don't know anything :/

NaokoElric2250
06-02-2011, 04:00 PM
... You for one are not intelligent I know what vice versa means. And I know you googled it. On top of that.. You are being sexist by saying men should only deal with men things and woman should only do with woman things? But yet your argument is that you want women to be able to do mens chores instead of womens chores. :|

In the end you are still discriminating against sexes.

Wanna join in a lesbian orgy.. only girls know how to pleasure other girls.. Men don't know anything :/

Housework isnot a 'woman's thing' it was only forced to be 'woman's work'.

I did not fucking ‘google’ it. I know what I meant because I read books and learn. How dare you say something like that when you do not even know me. I am not stupid.
 
BTW, not everyone flamed the fuck out of my rant. Unlike most people there were ten or so people whom actually understood what I was saying, and they actually thought about it. Some people, though disagreeing with some or most areas, still said it was good as it made them think. Like this:

44067

blueangel06661
06-02-2011, 04:08 PM
blahblahblah

Only stupid people try sooo hard to prove they are not stupid. Real intelligent people don't rub it in.. Especially when they are constantly being proven wrong.

And thats why you have 35 comments on your "wah wah wah I'm leaving" blog.. All 35 are pertained to wanting you gone. No one tried to make you stay. And LOL that one person is probably the only person.

...............Beating a dead horse.

GameGeeks
06-02-2011, 04:11 PM
Did you not read the ‘vise versa’ part? I stated that woman should design male clothing/perfume either, not just one side. You clearly did not understand what I was saying. ‘Vice versa’ is a Latin phase that, in modern terns, means that something previously said applies in the opposite situation. That is what I meant.Um, women do design male clothes and it's cologne for males, not perfume.


I do understand there are good male designers, and good male fashion-savvy people in regards to woman, such as Gok Wan. However, here is the problem: most of the clothing they design are feminine. They are not even in the middle of the “Tomboy - Girly Girl” spectrum, they are feminine. If a mans wants to design something for a woman, then they should make it neutral, not all-out feminine crap. And those men designing female lingerie really saw something about them, do you not think. What is the point in designer pants and bras, anyway? No one is going to see them expect perhaps a partner. If I had partner and she/he said “Check these designer lingerie/boxers” I would be thinking, “…and your point is?”Um, fashion lingerie is meant to be sexy so who better to know what a man finds arousing on a woman then a man? I doubt the lingerie you see on runways is functional for every day use.


I just think we know more about our own gender, and therefore will understand what our own gender likes. If someone wants to branch out into the design/story of the opposite gender, well good for them, they should just make sure they did it right.This is disproven by the fact that many of the clothing created for women by male fashion designers are quite popular with women.


One female deviant, whose usernae escapes me right now, was kind of sexist. She said FMA would not be dones as good with females *shakes head*.Where as you think any anime with a male protagonist is sexist. Gonna side with the DA user here.

OH PICARD, WHERE ARE YOU!?!

Anoleis
06-02-2011, 04:16 PM
BTW, not everyone flamed the frell out of my rant. Unlike most people there were ten or so people whom actually understood what I was saying, and they actually thought about it.

>Implying that those who disagree with you simply were not educated enough to understand what you were saying.

Kind of funny that you're just going to the "Well my argument is better, you're just ignorant" stance. Perhaps you'd like to run that by everyone here who's told you that they don't agree with you, and given a valid reason as to why you're wrong.

Edit: I see you there wolfgirl, and one of your tl;dr text walls would very highly appreciated~

blueangel06661
06-02-2011, 04:18 PM
Where as you think any anime with a male protagonist is sexist. Gonna side with the DA user here.


That reminds me.. She claims to like FMA besides it's sexism.. But Ed and Al are guys. And Ed is the male protagonist. :|

GASP BURN THE SHOW

NaokoElric2250
06-02-2011, 04:28 PM
Only stupid people try sooo hard to prove they are not stupid. Real intelligent people don't rub it in.. Especially when they are constantly being proven wrong.

And thats why you have 35 comments on your "wah wah wah I'm leaving" blog.. All 35 are pertained to wanting you gone. No one tried to make you stay. And LOL that one person is probably the only person.

...............Beating a dead horse.



It is not "wah wah wah". It is calm and straight to the point. Why should I deactivate when they are retards screen-capped my comments. did you read the above statement? I said TEN or so people understood it. And if the ten or so in-between the many flamers and trolls understood it, then I am happy.

---------- Post added at 09:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 PM ----------


>Implying that those who disagree with you simply were not educated enough to understand what you were saying.

Kind of funny that you're just going to the "Well my argument is better, you're just ignorant" stance. Perhaps you'd like to run that by everyone here who's told you that they don't agree with you, and given a valid reason as to why you're wrong.

Edit: I see you there wolfgirl, and one of your tl;dr text walls would very highly appreciated~

As I said on the submission, you may disagree, but that gives them no right to flame. Some people, who even though they did disagree, put in a across in a intelligence, non-flaming way, and some people also said it made them think about the series and how it is, such as the person in the picture. Hell, some people even agreed with me.
I did not if one disagrees, so long as they do not flame me as a result.

Get it into your skull.

blueangel06661
06-02-2011, 04:28 PM
You know... 11 people said I should be queen... ELEVEN!

Oh wait.. I just lied didn't I. Because it's not like anyone has proof.

And it is whining. Only babies post a blog about leaving a site because she gets proven wrong by her idiotic post. Real people stay and don't whine or casually leave without making a deal out of it. Only butt hurt people have to post a blog.

GameGeeks
06-02-2011, 04:29 PM
Housework isnot a 'woman's thing' it was only forced to be 'woman's work'.[QUOTE]No, it got the term woman's work because for thousands of years it was the woman's job to take care of the living area while the man went hunting or earned a living in some other way.

[QUOTE]I did not fucking ‘google’ it. I know what I meant because I read books and learn. How dare you say something like that when you do not even know me. I am not stupid.So the rest of us don't read books and learn?
 

BTW, not everyone flamed the fuck out of my rant. Unlike most people there were ten or so people whom actually understood what I was saying, and they actually thought about it. Some people, though disagreeing with some or most areas, still said it was good as it made them think. Like this:

44067That ten out of what? Hundreds? And we obviously did think about it as we gave you reasons as to why you're wrong. I even brake parts of your initial argument and, pretty much, broke down all your responses and responded to each part. Yet you ignore me. All you really want is someone to agree with you. And it seems at this point that you're desperate enough to even accept a partial agreement.

animeyay
06-02-2011, 04:31 PM
here is the problem: most of the clothing [men designers] design are feminine. They are not even in the middle of the “Tomboy - Girly Girl” spectrum, they are feminine. If a mans wants to design something for a woman, then they should make it neutral, not all-out feminine crap.

BTW, not everyone flamed the fuck out of my rant.
To be fair, I did not flame you as if my life depended on it, and I did not employ a single cuss word. I was merely speaking my mind and building upon what you said, so I'd appreciate it if you could respond in a more...mature way, too.

Now, you said you think male designers should make their female clothes "neutral". I do not agree to this opinion of yours, not because I think male designers should design more feminine clothes, but because it is right within their personal freedom to design whatever they want. That, is my personal opinion, which is equal to yours in weight. However, an opinion is only an opinion, you canNOT expect others to blindly accept your opinion. It is very important to learn to "agree to disagree." I asked you to please stop posting further because it was obvious no one would concede. What's the point of beating a dead horse? This is the final question I'm asking you: Do you personally believe there's a point in protracting this argument any further?

GameGeeks
06-02-2011, 04:33 PM
It is not "wah wah wah". It is calm and straight to the point. Why should I deactivate when they are retards screen-capped my comments. did you read the above statement? I said TEN or so people understood it. And if the ten or so in-between the many flamers and trolls understood it, then I am happy.You're one to talk, you're doing just as much flamming and trolling here as I am to you.


As I said on the submission, you may disagree, but that gives them no right to flame. Some people, who even though they did disagree, put in a across in a intelligence, non-flaming way, and some people also said it made them think about the series and how it is, such as the person in the picture. Hell, some people even agreed with me.
I did not if one disagrees, so long as they do not flame me as a result.

Get it into your skull.Get it in your skull, I did and you chose to ignore it.

blueangel06661
06-02-2011, 04:33 PM
desperate enough to even accept a partial agreement.

okay NaokoElric2250

Can I agree with you that the sky is blue so you'll stfu and gtfo? We've come to an agreement so there.

NaokoElric2250
06-02-2011, 04:43 PM
That reminds me.. She claims to like FMA besides it's sexism.. But Ed and Al are guys. And Ed is the male protagonist. :|

GASP BURN THE SHOW

I like the 2003 anime. The ONLY good things about the manga were Xing (as in the country), that fact that Briggs had snow instead of desert, and some of the locations and places and some plot elements.

Still, this is off-topic, but my OCs are made for the manga as they would not fit into the 2003 anime and they, unlike most OCs are not involved with the canon characters, they have their own story within the universe, a story that could happen without messing up the canon.

Many series I like have a male main protagonist, but they treat their female and males characters right. However, I like them for their story and characters in general and some of my favourite characters are male. Case in point: Alphonse Elric (favourite FMA Character), House and Wilson (House M.D though Thirteen is my most favourite), in regards to the current series, Mickey and Rory from ‘Doctor Who’ (though again, other characters stand above them).

---------- Post added at 09:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 PM ----------


To be fair, I did not flame you as if my life depended on it, and I did not employ a single cuss word. I was merely speaking my mind and building upon what you said, so I'd appreciate it if you could respond in a more...mature way, too.

Now, you said you think male designers should make their female clothes "neutral". I do not agree to this opinion of yours, not because I think male designers should design more feminine clothes, but because it is right within their personal freedom to design whatever they want. That, is my personal opinion, which is equal to yours in weight. However, an opinion is only an opinion, you canNOT expect others to blindly accept your opinion. It is very important to learn to "agree to disagree." I asked you to please stop posting further because it was obvious no one would concede. What's the point of beating a dead horse? This is the final question I'm asking you: Do you personally believe there's a point in protracting this argument any further?


I did not believe anyone’s opinion is lower than mine unless they are a troll. Such as your opinion. Well, if other's stopped replied, I would not be tempted t keep it going. Other people will keep it going even if I do stop, due to the screen-capped comments, which people will comment on, so they are the ones not letting it drop. I would gladly let it drop were the comments not screen-capped. If those people were mature enough to remove them, yeah, ok, I shall drop it. But I cannot completely do that with the comments up. Believe me, I want this to end, but I cannot, due to those trolls. I want it be left in the past, but thanks to the trolls, it cannot.

GameGeeks
06-02-2011, 04:44 PM
I like the 2003 anime. The ONLY good things about the manga were Xing (as in the country), that fact that Briggs had snow instead of desert, and some of the locations and places and some plot elements.

Still, this is off-topic, but my OCs are made for the manga as they would not fit into the 2003 anime and they, unlike most OCs are not involved with the canon characters, they have their own story within the universe, a story that could happen without messing up the canon.

Many series I like have a male main protagonist, but they treat their female and males characters right. However, I like them for their story and characters in general and some of my favourite characters are male. Case in point: Alphonse Elric (favourite FMA Character), House and Wilson (House M.D though Thirteen is my most favourite), in regards to the current series, Mickey and Rory from ‘Doctor Who’ (though again, other characters stand above them).Apparently not since you claim that about Harry Potter but Aeschylus did a nice break down of some of the characters and the roles they filled that you hated.

~*Red*~
06-02-2011, 04:44 PM
FMA's manga and the anime being sexist? GTFO >_> *sigh*

And I agree with what blueangel said - the time period Full Metal Alchemist is set in DOES have the females doing chores, ect, while Al, Ed and Roy are seen as the main characters who are the meaning of strength, courage and so on.

blueangel06661
06-02-2011, 04:45 PM
I did not believe anyon's opinion is lower than mine unless they are a troll. Such as your opinion.

Says the trollolololololololol

GameGeeks
06-02-2011, 04:46 PM
I did not believe anyon's opinion is lower than mine unless they are a troll. Such as your opinion. Well, if other's stopped replied, I would not be tempted t keep it going. Other people will keep it going even if I do stop, due to the screen-capped comments, which people will comment on, so they are the ones not letting it drop. I would gladly let it drop were the comments not screen-capped. If those people were mature enough to remove them, yeah, ok, I shall drop it. But I canno completely do with that with the comments up. Believe me, I WANT this to end, but I cannot, due to those trolls. I want it be left in the past, but thanks to the trolls, it cannot.Or you just simply choose to ignore it. You've yet to respond to one of my posts and I doubt you ever will. I've used reason and logic and so have many others and you just choose to ignore it.

NaokoElric2250
06-02-2011, 04:51 PM
Um, women do design male clothes and it's cologne for males, not perfume.

Um, fashion lingerie is meant to be sexy so who better to know what a man finds arousing on a woman then a man? I doubt the lingerie you see on runways is functional for every day use.

This is disproven by the fact that many of the clothing created for women by male fashion designers are quite popular with women.

Where as you think any anime with a male protagonist is sexist. Gonna side with the DA user here.

OH PICARD, WHERE ARE YOU!?!

I did not say the male disigners were not good.

And I do not believe that. As I said before, many series I like have a fantastic story and great characters, and the main protagionst is male, and still love it. Here is something to think about, it is something I heard in a video on www.thatguywiththeglasses.com (http://www.thatguywiththeglasses.com): "Why is it that most series have a male protagionst? Why can we understand males the most, yet only girls can understand female protagionist. It's not very fair. We should be able to side with both".

Token Black Guy
06-02-2011, 04:53 PM
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r39/J-MB/kitten-please-stfu.jpg

NaokoElric2250
06-02-2011, 04:54 PM
Or you just simply choose to ignore it. You've yet to respond to one of my posts and I doubt you ever will. I've used reason and logic and so have many others and you just choose to ignore it.

I cannot just ignore people showing me up behind my back like cowards. I could not just ignore bullies in school, so why should I ignore thins, when thhey are talkin shit about me when, again, they have not met me in real life.
If you want, I could remove the thread, but it does not seem like I can. I have others threats with more postive things to attend to anyway.

animeyay
06-02-2011, 04:59 PM
[...]If those people were mature enough to remove them, yeah, ok, I shall drop it. But I cannot completely do that with the comments up. Believe me, I want this to end, but I cannot, due to those trolls
Okay, so a long story short: You personally want this to end, but you will also only let it end when your condition is met. Well, I doubt that will happen any time soon, but let me just say this: If you believe the others are trolls, you should stop feeding the trolls, because the trolls feed off your posts. This is one of the most important rules of internet you must remember.

With that said, I officially conclude my participation in this thread. I shall be an observer now. Don't feel the trolls.

GameGeeks
06-02-2011, 04:59 PM
I did not say the male disigners were not good.

And I do not believe that. As I said before, many series I like have a fantastic story and great characters, and the main protagionst is male, and still love it. Here is something to think about, it is something I heard in a video on www.thatguywiththeglasses.com (http://www.thatguywiththeglasses.com): "Why is it that most series have a male protagionst? Why can we understand males the most, yet only girls can understand female protagionist. It's not very fair. We should be able to side with both".Um, you do know that site is full of people meant to make you laugh, There are a few that do serious reviews like Bennett the Sage, but chances you're pulling a quote out of nowhere if you can't even remember who said it or in what video. And if it was Doug, chances are he was just being silly since he's an entertainer first and reviewer second.

wolfgirl90
06-02-2011, 05:00 PM
Yeah, its a long post, but bare with me ya'll.

When it comes to "sexism", yeah, I guess Fullmetal Alchemist is a little sexist...when viewed with a heavily biased Western lens.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Bare in mind that Fullmetal Alchemist (and all the other anime that you have essentially whined about) was made with a completely different cultural mindset, namely Japanese. There are so many nuances in the Japanese culture that seep through into anime that trying to examine anime without SOME of this knowledge is rather futile (and reveals more about your ignorance than anything about "sexism").

It is not uncommon today in Japan for women to send their husbands off to work and not see them again until much later in the evening only to repeat the cycle the next day. The culture and even the Japanese language itself expects women to be polite and demure (this has more to do with gender roles than the overall "value" of a certain gender). While this trend has been changing, even females have a hard time breaking it completely (females can lead a company, but will still use the polite language expected of them).

The same thing happens in anime. In Fullmetal Alchemist, Winry does essentially serve as a support character (virtually every other female in a shonen series usually ends up in this position). But that doesn't mean that she is useless. For all of the support that she gives, if it wasn't for her, Ed wouldn't have made it as far as he did without her.

I believe you place WAY too much importance on relative status rather than individual action and merit (hell, I think that you are being quite the hypocrite, allowing certain actions to be acceptable only if they are done by certain people). Winry may be a support character but she has helped Edward multiple times, more times than he helped her. She was effectively held hostage by the military, but in case you forgot, it was her freaking idea to keep up the charade despite the obvious danger to her life. She may have stayed home but that was only because she wanted to be in a constant postition to help Edward. He wanted her to leave the country but she refused and decided to stay. To stay by his side constantly, even on the battlefield wouldn't be brave; it would be borderline foolish. And when it comes to how she handled the news of who killed her parents, there's no point in comparing her reactions from the 2003 anime with the 2009 anime (there were two different killers and she personally knew one and was already afraid of the other).:rolleyes:

Lan Fan does serve Ling, but she is not "a mere servant" (pfft...honestly). She is his bodyguard, a bodyguard who is so freaking hardcore that she cut off her own arm so that Ling could get away. Yeah, Lan Fan is so weak.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Riza Hawkeye is Roy's subordinate, however, she is not the ONLY subordinate Roy has (she is the only female subordinate). Also, Roy has entrusted HIS life to Riza, not the other way around. Riza is Roy's assistant and, like Lan Fan, his personal bodyguard. Riza has stepped in multiple times to prevent Roy from doing something profoundly stupid, like trying to perform flame alchemy in the rain (speaking of flame alchemy, Roy learned it from the tattoo on Riza's back, not his male master).

Olivier Armstrong was rescued by Alex when she was fighting Sloth, but this was after Sloth had broken her arm and by that time, she had "killed" him several times, all of this WITHOUT using alchemy. And before those events took place, she killed two generals without any hesitation.:ninja:

Arakawa-sensei makes use of standard shonen tropes: strong male lead, supporting female for the male (possibly his love interest). However, Arakawa is not the only female shonen manga-ka who does this. If you are going to complain about Hiromu Arakawa, then you might as well complain about every other female shonen manga artist (almost all of them do the same thing). Rumiko Takahashi with InuYasha: InuYasha is at the forefront while Kagome is his support and love interest. Yellow Tanabe with Kekkaishi: Yoshimori is at the forefront while Tokine, despite her intelligence, is his support and love interest. This happens A LOT in shonen anime: the males are the lead (since, by definition, it is something that is supposed to appeal to MALES, so of course MALES are usually the lead since MALES like reading things about other MALES) and the females play support; even in a action role (i.e Fullmetal Alchemist, InuYasha), the females usually end up backing the male. Its shonen 101. Deal with it (or make your own comic; whatever occupies your time).

However, just because the females are the support doesn't mean that they are useless or that their roles should be disregarded because they are not the lead. Kagome may be InuYasha's support, but InuYasha can't do a darn thing without the girl. Tokine may be the Yoshimori's support, but she is the only one of the two who uses any amount of common sense.

You place too much important on relative status and importance that you ignore the individual strengths of the characters. The women in Fullmetal Alchemist have so many roles and purposes that it makes no sense to gauge their value by their relative status with a man; in fact, doing so only DEVALUES them.:closedeye

Lan Fan's "servitude" doesn't make her actions any less hardcore; Riza being Roy's subordinate doesn't negate the fact that he entrusts his life to her; Olivier needing Alex's help doesn't negate the fact that she killed two corrupt generals and destroyed a bunch of immortal soldiers before her arm was broken (and continued to give commands to soldiers afterwards); and Winry being Edward's support doesn't stop the fact that she has helped him several times and serves as one of his inspirations to keep fighting.

If you have a problem with the status of the female characters, despite their many strengths and merits, then go write some fan fiction and stop wasting everyone's time.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

GameGeeks
06-02-2011, 05:04 PM
I cannot just ignore people showing me up behind my back like cowards. I could not just ignore bullies in school, so why should I ignore thins, when thhey are talkin shit about me when, again, they have not met me in real life.
If you want, I could remove the thread, but it does not seem like I can. I have others threats with more postive things to attend to anyway.
Again you don't grasp what I was referring to. You chose for the longest time to simply ignore my posts. Even though I initially did give thought out responses. You just refuse to listen to reason and logic. As such I have been harping on you since I knew I wasn't going to get a response and I still stand by all of it either way.

blueangel06661
06-02-2011, 05:12 PM
blahblahblahi'm uselessblah blah blah


Hey stop using your second account EnnisNagato to dislike people. It's so obvious it's you because the second part of your SN always has a characters name. Naoko ELRIC... Ennis NAGATO and you have Nagato as your profile picture... Smooth

http://i51.tinypic.com/33mmzr8.png

We're not stupid. It's clearly obvious it's you. Only babies create fake accounts to dislike other people and like their own post. NO ONE HERE IS AGREEING WITH YOU. Just face it.

Miss Moonlight
06-02-2011, 05:17 PM
I cannot just ignore people showing me up behind my back like cowards. I could not just ignore bullies in school, so why should I ignore thins, when thhey are talkin grozit about me when, again, they have not met me in real life.
If you want, I could remove the thread, but it does not seem like I can. I have others threats with more postive things to attend to anyway.

If you can't stand the heat of the internet, get out of the internet ... kitchen.

Also, people disagreeing with you does not equate to "bullying". You're pretty much making yourself a target at this point.

blueangel06661
06-02-2011, 05:19 PM
05:14 PM - GameGeeks clicked Likes for this post: Re: The "Fullmetal Alchemist" Manga and 2009 Anime are Sexist by blueangel06661
05:10 PM - EnnisNagato clicked Dislikes for this post: Re: The "Fullmetal Alchemist" Manga and 2009 Anime are Sexist by blueangel06661
05:05 PM - EnnisNagato clicked Dislikes for this post: Re: The "Fullmetal Alchemist" Manga and 2009 Anime are Sexist by blueangel06661
05:05 PM - EnnisNagato clicked Dislikes for this post: Re: The "Fullmetal Alchemist" Manga and 2009 Anime are Sexist by blueangel06661
05:04 PM - blueangel06661 clicked Thanks for this post: Re: The "Fullmetal Alchemist" Manga and 2009 Anime are Sexist by wolfgirl90
05:04 PM - EnnisNagato clicked Dislikes for this post: Re: The "Fullmetal Alchemist" Manga and 2009 Anime are Sexist by blueangel06661
05:04 PM - EnnisNagato clicked Dislikes for this post: Re: The "Fullmetal Alchemist" Manga and 2009 Anime are Sexist by blueangel06661
05:03 PM - EnnisNagato clicked Dislikes for this post: Re: The "Fullmetal Alchemist" Manga and 2009 Anime are Sexist by blueangel06661
05:03 PM - EnnisNagato clicked Dislikes for this post: Re: The "Fullmetal Alchemist" Manga and 2009 Anime are Sexist by blueangel06661
05:01 PM - EnnisNagato clicked Dislikes for this post: Re: The "Fullmetal Alchemist" Manga and 2009 Anime are Sexist by blueangel06661
05:00 PM - EnnisNagato clicked Dislikes for this post: Re: The "Fullmetal Alchemist" Manga and 2009 Anime are Sexist by blueangel06661
05:00 PM - EnnisNagato clicked Dislikes for this post: Re: The "Fullmetal Alchemist" Manga and 2009 Anime are Sexist by blueangel06661
05:00 PM - EnnisNagato clicked Dislikes for this post: Re: The "Fullmetal Alchemist" Manga and 2009 Anime are Sexist by blueangel06661


Surely there's got a be a limit on that o____o How desperate can this girl get? Now it's to the point of spamming my notifications

Token Black Guy
06-02-2011, 05:25 PM
05:14 PM - GameGeeks clicked Likes for this post: Re: The "Fullmetal Alchemist" Manga and 2009 Anime are Sexist by blueangel06661
05:10 PM - EnnisNagato clicked Dislikes for this post: Re: The "Fullmetal Alchemist" Manga and 2009 Anime are Sexist by blueangel06661
05:05 PM - EnnisNagato clicked Dislikes for this post: Re: The "Fullmetal Alchemist" Manga and 2009 Anime are Sexist by blueangel06661
05:05 PM - EnnisNagato clicked Dislikes for this post: Re: The "Fullmetal Alchemist" Manga and 2009 Anime are Sexist by blueangel06661
05:04 PM - blueangel06661 clicked Thanks for this post: Re: The "Fullmetal Alchemist" Manga and 2009 Anime are Sexist by wolfgirl90
05:04 PM - EnnisNagato clicked Dislikes for this post: Re: The "Fullmetal Alchemist" Manga and 2009 Anime are Sexist by blueangel06661
05:04 PM - EnnisNagato clicked Dislikes for this post: Re: The "Fullmetal Alchemist" Manga and 2009 Anime are Sexist by blueangel06661
05:03 PM - EnnisNagato clicked Dislikes for this post: Re: The "Fullmetal Alchemist" Manga and 2009 Anime are Sexist by blueangel06661
05:03 PM - EnnisNagato clicked Dislikes for this post: Re: The "Fullmetal Alchemist" Manga and 2009 Anime are Sexist by blueangel06661
05:01 PM - EnnisNagato clicked Dislikes for this post: Re: The "Fullmetal Alchemist" Manga and 2009 Anime are Sexist by blueangel06661
05:00 PM - EnnisNagato clicked Dislikes for this post: Re: The "Fullmetal Alchemist" Manga and 2009 Anime are Sexist by blueangel06661
05:00 PM - EnnisNagato clicked Dislikes for this post: Re: The "Fullmetal Alchemist" Manga and 2009 Anime are Sexist by blueangel06661
05:00 PM - EnnisNagato clicked Dislikes for this post: Re: The "Fullmetal Alchemist" Manga and 2009 Anime are Sexist by blueangel06661


Surely there's got a be a limit on that o____o How desperate can this girl get? Now it's to the point of spamming my notifications
It's irritating, but it's her just going full retard. She brought this upon herself.

GameGeeks
06-02-2011, 05:30 PM
Seems that way.

Shinn Kamiyra
06-02-2011, 05:34 PM
It's irritating, but it's her just going full retard. She brought this upon herself.

Pardon my intruding on this so late. Though I have to say that, at this point, you're probably right; and that she's lost any sense of having a fruitful discussion, if she ever had that intention to begin with. Long story short, her logic and reason have already been decimated beyond any hope of repair. Prolonging this anymore really doesn't serve any purpose. If she doesn't get it by now, I seriously doubt she ever will.

So, mayhaps we should just call it a good fight and let this thread fade into obscurity where it belongs.

Token Black Guy
06-02-2011, 05:37 PM
Pardon my intruding on this so late. Though I have to say that, at this point, you're probably right; and that she's lost any sense of having a fruitful discussion, if she ever had that intention to begin with. Long story short, her logic and reason have already been decimated beyond any hope of repair. Prolonging this anymore really doesn't serve any purpose. If she doesn't get it by now, I seriously doubt she ever will.

So, mayhaps we should just call it a good fight and let this thread fade into obscurity where it belongs.
Good call. And so that this doesn't go further, i'd say a mod should close this thread.

TheCrazyFreak
06-02-2011, 06:16 PM
I don't even know why I bothered reading this entire thing (you seem to repeat yourself a lot). First of all, you're looking waaay too into this. It's like you're purposefully searching for "sexist" things or something. You're interpreting things as sexist, when they aren't.

What bothered me was how you complain about Winry crying all the time, but when it comes to Ed you said it'd be good if he cried more, because it's good to show your emotional side more. So, what? It's okay for men to cry, but not for women? Double standards much. >__> And I personally don't see crying as "weak" (I used to think it was, but I don't anymore), I see it as letting go of your emotions and feeling better about yourself afterwards. If you pent it all up, you become miserable and aggressive, which is never a good thing.

You also kept repeating how you want more "Girl, Girl, Boy" main characters, where the girls go on an adventure. Well, I'm sure there are mangas/animes like that out there, so just go read/watch those instead of wasting your time posting here.

As for why the manga-ka decided to have boys as the main characters.. maybe she just prefers drawing boys. I mean, she is a woman, after all. Unless she is a lesbian, she prefers guys. I admit that I usually like male characters better too. There's just something that draws me to them more than it does to female charas.

Also, considering you're (apparently) from Glasgow, meaning English is your first language, I'd expect better grammar (and better constructed sentences) from you. Reading that long thing was painful enough without all the grammar mistakes. >__>

NaokoElric2250
06-02-2011, 09:22 PM
I don't even know why I bothered reading this entire thing (you seem to repeat yourself a lot). First of all, you're looking waaay too into this. It's like you're purposefully searching for "sexist" things or something. You're interpreting things as sexist, when they aren't.

What bothered me was how you complain about Winry crying all the time, but when it comes to Ed you said it'd be good if he cried more, because it's good to show your emotional side more. So, what? It's okay for men to cry, but not for women? Double standards much. >__> And I personally don't see crying as "weak" (I used to think it was, but I don't anymore), I see it as letting go of your emotions and feeling better about yourself afterwards. If you pent it all up, you become miserable and aggressive, which is never a good thing.

You also kept repeating how you want more "Girl, Girl, Boy" main characters, where the girls go on an adventure. Well, I'm sure there are mangas/animes like that out there, so just go read/watch those instead of wasting your time posting here.

As for why the manga-ka decided to have boys as the main characters.. maybe she just prefers drawing boys. I mean, she is a woman, after all. Unless she is a lesbian, she prefers guys. I admit that I usually like male characters better too. There's just something that draws me to them more than it does to female charas.

Also, considering you're (apparently) from Glasgow, meaning English is your first language, I'd expect better grammar (and better constructed sentences) from you. Reading that long thing was painful enough without all the grammar mistakes. >__>

To you they are not. It is all down to interpretation. This is what I interperate.

Arakawa is the one with the double standards, making a girl cry all the fucking time and have a boy not cry at all (expect once, and she was not even there) and more fr she is crying for him, which, as I said, is pathetic.

I am not 'wasting my time'. You would not say that if this was positive. I only come on here to check this and my other threads.

She just made another typical, sexist, male-dominant shonen manga. At least the 2003 treats the female characters better and has more of them.

Why?

It is a rant, not an essay. There is a small but significant difference. I tried to keep the grammar correct as best as possible, but I cannot make it that all the time, especially when I was letting off steam thought it. And yes, I am from Glasgow.

And AGAIN, there is no mension of the OTHER PEOPLE who share this opinion. Tell me what you think of them too!

I do not to enter into an argument with you.

---------- Post added at 02:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:12 AM ----------

BTW, if you all want this to stop, then stop it by not replied anymore and I will not reply either. Simple.

blueangel06661
06-02-2011, 09:22 PM
Yeah, its a long post, but bare with me ya'll.

When it comes to "sexism", yeah, I guess Fullmetal Alchemist is a little sexist...when viewed with a heavily biased Western lens.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Bare in mind that Fullmetal Alchemist (and all the other anime that you have essentially whined about) was made with a completely different cultural mindset, namely Japanese. There are so many nuances in the Japanese culture that seep through into anime that trying to examine anime without SOME of this knowledge is rather futile (and reveals more about your ignorance than anything about "sexism").

It is not uncommon today in Japan for women to send their husbands off to work and not see them again until much later in the evening only to repeat the cycle the next day. The culture and even the Japanese language itself expects women to be polite and demure (this has more to do with gender roles than the overall "value" of a certain gender). While this trend has been changing, even females have a hard time breaking it completely (females can lead a company, but will still use the polite language expected of them).

The same thing happens in anime. In Fullmetal Alchemist, Winry does essentially serve as a support character (virtually every other female in a shonen series usually ends up in this position). But that doesn't mean that she is useless. For all of the support that she gives, if it wasn't for her, Ed wouldn't have made it as far as he did without her.

I believe you place WAY too much importance on relative status rather than individual action and merit (hell, I think that you are being quite the hypocrite, allowing certain actions to be acceptable only if they are done by certain people). Winry may be a support character but she has helped Edward multiple times, more times than he helped her. She was effectively held hostage by the military, but in case you forgot, it was her freaking idea to keep up the charade despite the obvious danger to her life. She may have stayed home but that was only because she wanted to be in a constant postition to help Edward. He wanted her to leave the country but she refused and decided to stay. To stay by his side constantly, even on the battlefield wouldn't be brave; it would be borderline foolish. And when it comes to how she handled the news of who killed her parents, there's no point in comparing her reactions from the 2003 anime with the 2009 anime (there were two different killers and she personally knew one and was already afraid of the other).:rolleyes:

Lan Fan does serve Ling, but she is not "a mere servant" (pfft...honestly). She is his bodyguard, a bodyguard who is so freaking hardcore that she cut off her own arm so that Ling could get away. Yeah, Lan Fan is so weak.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Riza Hawkeye is Roy's subordinate, however, she is not the ONLY subordinate Roy has (she is the only female subordinate). Also, Roy has entrusted HIS life to Riza, not the other way around. Riza is Roy's assistant and, like Lan Fan, his personal bodyguard. Riza has stepped in multiple times to prevent Roy from doing something profoundly stupid, like trying to perform flame alchemy in the rain (speaking of flame alchemy, Roy learned it from the tattoo on Riza's back, not his male master).

Olivier Armstrong was rescued by Alex when she was fighting Sloth, but this was after Sloth had broken her arm and by that time, she had "killed" him several times, all of this WITHOUT using alchemy. And before those events took place, she killed two generals without any hesitation.:ninja:

Arakawa-sensei makes use of standard shonen tropes: strong male lead, supporting female for the male (possibly his love interest). However, Arakawa is not the only female shonen manga-ka who does this. If you are going to complain about Hiromu Arakawa, then you might as well complain about every other female shonen manga artist (almost all of them do the same thing). Rumiko Takahashi with InuYasha: InuYasha is at the forefront while Kagome is his support and love interest. Yellow Tanabe with Kekkaishi: Yoshimori is at the forefront while Tokine, despite her intelligence, is his support and love interest. This happens A LOT in shonen anime: the males are the lead (since, by definition, it is something that is supposed to appeal to MALES, so of course MALES are usually the lead since MALES like reading things about other MALES) and the females play support; even in a action role (i.e Fullmetal Alchemist, InuYasha), the females usually end up backing the male. Its shonen 101. Deal with it (or make your own comic; whatever occupies your time).

However, just because the females are the support doesn't mean that they are useless or that their roles should be disregarded because they are not the lead. Kagome may be InuYasha's support, but InuYasha can't do a darn thing without the girl. Tokine may be the Yoshimori's support, but she is the only one of the two who uses any amount of common sense.

You place too much important on relative status and importance that you ignore the individual strengths of the characters. The women in Fullmetal Alchemist have so many roles and purposes that it makes no sense to gauge their value by their relative status with a man; in fact, doing so only DEVALUES them.:closedeye

Lan Fan's "servitude" doesn't make her actions any less hardcore; Riza being Roy's subordinate doesn't negate the fact that he entrusts his life to her; Olivier needing Alex's help doesn't negate the fact that she killed two corrupt generals and destroyed a bunch of immortal soldiers before her arm was broken (and continued to give commands to soldiers afterwards); and Winry being Edward's support doesn't stop the fact that she has helped him several times and serves as one of his inspirations to keep fighting.

If you have a problem with the status of the female characters, despite their many strengths and merits, then go write some fan fiction and stop wasting everyone's time.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Quoted for truth so you'll stop coming back to this dang thread.

GameGeeks
06-02-2011, 09:31 PM
To you they are not. It is all down to interpretation. This is what I interperate.Interpret it that way all you want. Doesn't mean it's true. You can say she's sexist, doesn't make it true. Just like I can interpret you as a donkey, doesn't make it true.


Arakawa is the one with the double standards, making a girl cry all the fucking time and have a boy not cry at all (expect once, and she was not even there) and more fr she is crying for him, which, as I said, is pathetic.I explained that before.


I am not 'wasting my time'. You would not say that if this was positive. I only come on here to check this and my other threads.You're right, you're wasting our time.


She just made another typical, sexist, male-dominant shonen manga. At least the 2003 treats the female characters better and has more of them.Explained archetypes before.


Why?She wanted male main characters. Nothing sexist about that.


It is a rant, not an essay. There is a small but significant difference. I tried to keep the grammar correct as best as possible, but I cannot make it that all the time, especially when I was letting off steam thought it. And yes, I am from Glasgow.Your grammar sucks insanely bad for someone who keeps trying to say she's knowledgeable and intelligent because she reads books. If you read as often as you say you do you'd have better grammar.


And AGAIN, there is no mension of the OTHER PEOPLE who share this opinion. Tell me what you think of them too!Can't comment on things we haven't seen and the one you did show I did comment on.


I do not to enter into an argument with you.Once again bad grammar strikes making this sentence difficult to read and understand.

NaokoElric2250
06-02-2011, 09:47 PM
Interpret it that way all you want. Doesn't mean it's true. You can say she's sexist, doesn't make it true. Just like I can interpret you as a donkey, doesn't make it true.

I explained that before.

You're right, you're wasting our time.

Explained archetypes before.

She wanted male main characters. Nothing sexist about that.

Your grammar sucks insanely bad for someone who keeps trying to say she's knowledgeable and intelligent because she reads books. If you read as often as you say you do you'd have better grammar.

Can't comment on things we haven't seen and the one you did show I did comment on.

Once again bad grammar strikes making this sentence difficult to read and understand.

I did not think her preference was sexist. I was just curious.

As for the grammar, what do you expect? I told you I have poor eyesight, I am not blind, obviously, but close to it, as a matter of fact, I am 'registered blind'. I am going to make mistakes.

If you wish for this to be removed, well, frankly that is fine with me. I can focus on my other threads and not have to keep returning here.

I am not a retard, I am not ignorant, stupid, anything of that nature. That is what you think, not what I do. I am me, you are you, we are us. Only the people in control of their feelings can truly think what they are and feeling. Yes, others may tell one what they think of them, but it is up to that person to decide whether that is true or not. Especially one who has never met me in real life.

I can try to proof I am not retarded, provided you give a task to prove it.

GameGeeks
06-02-2011, 09:57 PM
I did not think her preference was sexist. I was just curious.[quote]Yet you keep calling her sexist. And curious about what? If she actually was sexist?

[quote]As for the grammar, what do you expect? I told you I have poor eyesight, I am not blind, obviously, but close to it, as a matter of fact, I am 'registered blind'. I am going to make mistakes. I would be surprised if they made glasses for that. And if you already do then just do simple things like proof read before posting. But I'm not completely cruel, just mostly, and will drop the grammar argument.


If you wish for this to be removed, well, frankly that is fine with me. I can focus on my other threads and not have to keep returning here.Well then it's a catch 22.


I am not a retard, I am not ignorant, stupid, anything of that nature. That is what you think, not what I do. I am me, you are you, we are us. Only the people in control of their feelings can truly think what they are and feeling. Yes, others may tell one what they think of them, but it is up to that person to decide whether that is true or not. Especially one who has never met me in real life.And where did this come from? I never said anything about how you should feel. Just what I thought of you.


I can try to proof I am not retarded, provided you give a task to prove it.I can give you that task. Simply stop posting here.

Anoleis
06-02-2011, 10:19 PM
BTW, if you all want this to stop, then stop it by not replied anymore and I will not reply either. Simple.
All you want is the last word. Tsk, tsk, such immaturity.

Shinn Kamiyra
06-02-2011, 10:24 PM
With the exception of closing the thread, the last word in a failed thread is epic fail, no matter how you slice it, this being even more true if it's intentional. I say let her have it if she's really that desperate for it.

Token Black Guy
06-02-2011, 10:31 PM
With the exception of closing the thread, the last word in a failed thread is epic fail, no matter how you slice it, this being even more true if it's intentional. I say let her have it if she's really that desperate for it.
You're right man. If she want's to continue to "go full retard" and make herself look ignorant, then so be it. It's her choice, even though she will leave a bad impression.(Which she already did.) So every body else out there, let her have the last word even though she is being very childish and so this pointless thread can die. That is all.

blueangel06661
06-03-2011, 07:11 AM
As for the grammar, what do you expect? I told you I have poor eyesight, I am not blind, obviously, but close to it, as a matter of fact, I am 'registered blind'. I am going to make mistakes.

I'm going to stop you right there. THIS is the most ridiculous thing I have EVER read. My older brother is registered blind. And he will tell you he's more than close to it. He has Nystagmus which makes him unable to even wear glasses. And I know you have glasses as that little character drawing of you does and you seem to like characters with them. Stop blaming other things for your failures. You blame your shortness on not finding clothes. All of that is bologna. He was actually so smart a college came to the high school and asked why he was even IN high school still. He doesn't make typos and grammatical errors. And with a little bit of care you don't have to either if you tried. If I can type with my eyes closed correctly you should be able to do it with your eyes open. "Almost" blind or not. Might as well say you can't read a book. If you can't understand what you type then you can't read a book. I don't take to people blaming their disabilities on stupid things.

As much as you guys want this thread to end. Myself included..... I really had to say that. Sorry Shingo >_>

Token Black Guy
06-03-2011, 10:04 AM
I'm going to stop you right there. THIS is the most ridiculous thing I have EVER read. My older brother is registered blind. And he will tell you he's more than close to it. Stop blaming other things for your failures. You blame your shortness on not finding clothes. All of that is bologna. He was actually so smart a college came to the high school and asked why he was even IN high school still. He doesn't make typos and grammatical errors. And has Nystagmus which makes him unable to even wear glasses. And I know you have glasses as that little character drawing of you does and you seem to like characters with them. And with a little bit of care you don't have to either if you tried. If I can type with my eyes closed correctly you should be able to do it with your eyes open. "Almost" blind or not. Might as well say you can't read a book. If you can't understand what you type then you can't read a book. I don't take to people blaming their disabilities on stupid things.

As much as you guys want this thread to end. Myself included..... I really had to say that. Sorry Shingo >_>
It's ok. I see your point in here. I have an uncle that recently went fully blind, and he can use a computer. But let's just let it die at this point.

NaokoElric2250
06-03-2011, 01:46 PM
It's ok. I see your point in here. I have an uncle that recently went fully blind, and he can use a computer. But let's just let it die at this point.

AndI kknow blind people whom both can and cannot use a computer. Your point being? I am not using it as an excuse, you may kno someone with eye problems, but that does not mean you fully understand them. You need to experience it to truly know what it is like. And I do wear glasses. I have both reading and distance ones. You cannot say I am 'using it as an excuse' as you do not fully know what it is like.

wolfgirl90
06-03-2011, 02:34 PM
Alright, I think we need to end this. But let's have a Wolfgirl ending before a mod closes this. YAY!!


It is a rant, not an essay. There is a small but significant difference. I tried to keep the grammar correct as best as possible, but I cannot make it that all the time, especially when I was letting off steam thought it.

Okay, but let me point this out since you are pretty new here. When you make rants, no matter what they are about, it makes you appear to be very immature, no matter what intelligence level you claim to have (stupid is as stupid does). I don't care about what excuses you have, but here at the Anime Forum, if you want to be taken seriously, you need to be able to express your thoughts and opinions (whatever they may be) in an intelligent manner (we don't rant here). Blasting insults at other people is not the way to accomplish this.

I have dealt with people like you before, people who have had strong opinions and have made complete fools of themselves trying to express those opinions, so let me make this clear as I will only say it once to scrubs like you. Your behavior, not the relative validity of your arguments, is what matters to me. If a person made a thread about the Tea Party, as crazy as they are, I will pay attention as long as they are not acting like an idiot. Fair is fair.

However, continue to act like a fool, insulting others and carrying on, and I will go full wolf on you. I have chased fools off of this forum before. Don't think that I won't do it again.

And I do believe that we are done here (EVERYONE).:glare::glare:

/END THREAD

Gjallarhorn
06-03-2011, 04:03 PM
I stand by my original post in regard to the thread's subject matter, but Wolfgirl pretty much handled the rest.