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Thread: Are traditional "jobs" no longer needed?

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    Default Are traditional "jobs" no longer needed?

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/09/0...ete/index.html

    thought this was an interesting take on the jobs crisis.
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    Default Re: Are traditional "jobs" no longer needed?

    This article is just some idiot who doesn't understand basic economics advocating for socialism. Nothing to see here.

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    Default Re: Are traditional "jobs" no longer needed?

    Yeah...no. It's one thing to have an interesting idea, or an idea that runs outside of our normal social constructs, but regarding something so deeply entrenched in our history and society, this article is just absurd.

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    Default Re: Are traditional "jobs" no longer needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wio View Post
    This article is just some idiot who doesn't understand basic economics advocating for socialism. Nothing to see here.
    The premises of "basic economics" are becoming increasingly obsolete. As technology progresses, we're increasingly becoming a zero sum economy. This undermines the very basic idea of perpetual expansion economics dictates. Growth is looking more and more like zeno's paradox.

    With limited room for expansion and machines that can do most forms of manual labor, it really is time to re-evaluate our economy. Why do people need to work full time?
    Last edited by Eris; 09-08-2011 at 03:19 AM.



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    Default Re: Are traditional "jobs" no longer needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    The premises of "basic economics" are becoming increasingly obsolete. As technology progresses, we're increasingly becoming a zero sum economy. This undermines the very basic idea of perpetual expansion economics dictates. Growth is looking more and more like zeno's paradox.
    Economics neither dictates nor is it dependent upon any premise of perpetual expansion, and I'm not sure where you're getting this idea.

    The basic principle this guy is failing to recognize is that individuals need to enter periods of economic discomfort when they are not being productive enough to support their own lifestyle. It signals them to either consume less or produce more. If you provide for them basic necessities, they loose the signals and motivation necessary to be self sufficient. Not only it is unjust to the people who finance such a system, but it's only sustainable for so long. None of this assumes or is dependent upon perpetual economic growth either.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Are traditional "jobs" no longer needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wio View Post
    Economics neither dictates nor is it dependent upon any premise of perpetual expansion, and I'm not sure where you're getting this idea.

    The basic principle this guy is failing to recognize is that individuals need to enter periods of economic discomfort when they are not being productive enough to support their own lifestyle. It signals them to either consume less or produce more. If you provide for them basic necessities, they loose the signals and motivation necessary to be self sufficient. Not only it is unjust to the people who finance such a system, but it's only sustainable for so long. None of this assumes or is dependent upon perpetual economic growth either.
    And that is where it breaks down. If there can be no growth, there can be no increase in production, and everyone settles into an equilibrium of not producing enough and being equally miserable.



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    Default Re: Are traditional "jobs" no longer needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    And that is where it breaks down. If there can be no growth, there can be no increase in production, and everyone settles into an equilibrium of not producing enough and being equally miserable.
    First of all, production only has to keep up with consumption, and consumption doesn't necessarily have to increase.
    Second of all, I don't see any reason to believe that production can't increase in the future.
    Third of all, I've explained the principle the author got wrong, and I'm not sure how your growth comment adds or subtracts from it.
    Last edited by Wio; 09-08-2011 at 04:24 AM.

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    Default Re: Are traditional "jobs" no longer needed?

    ITT: Pretending to be intelligent and socialism is the devil.

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    Default Re: Are traditional "jobs" no longer needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wio View Post
    First of all, production only has to keep up with consumption, and consumption doesn't necessarily have to increase.
    Second of all, I don't see any reason to believe that production can't increase in the future.
    Third of all, I've explained the principle the author got wrong, and I'm not sure how your growth comment adds or subtracts from it.
    Consumption increases with population. We're at 7 billion and ticking. And the billions living in squalor and famine aren't particularly happy with their standard of living. The reason production can't increase is because non-fossil resources are finite, and fossil resources are quickly running out. You can't use more resources than you have at your disposal.



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    Default Re: Are traditional "jobs" no longer needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    Consumption increases with population. We're at 7 billion and ticking. And the billions living in squalor and famine aren't particularly happy with their standard of living. The reason production can't increase is because non-fossil resources are finite, and fossil resources are quickly running out. You can't use more resources than you have at your disposal.
    I don't think this changes the dynamics of markets vs central planning at all. When production fails to keep up with consumption, things essentially hit carrying capacity. This is a reality which neither socialism nor capitalism can avoid. This also isn't anything new--humanity faced it prior to the industrial revolution. Markets warn people when they can't afford to have any more children, and people who ignore those warnings live under very poor conditions and in the most extreme cases die. Central planners can try to assist people who have children they can't afford, but this destroys wealth and in time you end up with a situation even worse than you would with markets.


    Quote Originally Posted by Frederica Sawyer View Post
    ITT: Pretending to be intelligent and socialism is the devil.
    Listen, you punk. My reasoning is laid out quite clearly so that you or anyone else can challenge it. I'm not hiding behind any confusing rhetoric or esoteric terminology. What exactly is it that I'm pretending to know? How about you call me out on where I'm wrong, rather than dishonestly characterizing what I've said?

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    Default Re: Are traditional "jobs" no longer needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wio View Post
    Listen, you punk.
    Looks like I struck a nerve. Did I damage your e-pride or something?

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    Default Re: Are traditional "jobs" no longer needed?

    America is productive enough that it could probably shelter, feed, educate, and even provide health care for its entire population with just a fraction of us actually working.
    While the other fraction does what?

     
    Quote Originally Posted by Frederica Sawyer View Post
    Looks like I struck a nerve. Did I damage your e-pride or something?
    >Lol, ITT people who disagree wit me

    >My argument is nicely laid out and sound, punk.

    >OMG, you called me a punk, u so mad!!

    Could you not try the internet-tough-guy act? Really, it just makes you look stupid and adds nothing to the thread.
    Last edited by Anoleis; 09-08-2011 at 10:38 AM.

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    Default Re: Are traditional "jobs" no longer needed?

    Comrades rise up against your mechanical oppressors for the good of the proletariat and let the workers rule the country rather than the capitalist6 pigs who take our jobs!!!!

    On a serious note **** technology, Did Genghis Khan need it?, did Robert Bruce need it? lets go live in caves!!!!

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