Japanese online...?

[Lily Rock]

Loi' bois' and girls', i wonder if there's any free way to learn Japanese online? ^^
Since i am saving for a pair of drums(which i will never be able to get cause i have a lazy cow as father), i have always wanted to learn another langue, Japanese where i very interested in when i heard it on Anime's, i know SOME words, but not accurate enough if they are right, also i can't write Japanese with the keyboard, so romanji/normal i am pretty interested in.

[wolfgirl90]

Loi' bois' and girls', i wonder if there's any free way to learn Japanese online? ^^
Since i am saving for a pair of drums(which i will never be able to get cause i have a lazy cow as father), i have always wanted to learn another langue, Japanese where i very interested in when i heard it on Anime's, i know SOME words, but not accurate enough if they are right, also i can't write Japanese with the keyboard, so romanji/normal i am pretty interested in.

*Sigh*

There are plenty of sites that offer free Japanese lessons. The first one that comes to mind is www.freejapaneselessons.com (which seems a little obvious). Just Google, look around and take your pick which one(s) work for you.

However, I will warn you since I have heard plenty of people ask the same question. Japanese is not an easy language to learn, much less become fluent in. If you just want to learn a few words and phrases, then this will work, but I always hear people say that they want to learn Japanese because of anime and then become confused and frustrated when, two years later, they still can't speak/read/write the language fluently.

Also, romaji, while a great way to learn pronunciation, can easily end up being a crutch. Use it only for learning the pronunciation of kana and then drop it. Writing Japanese strictly in romaji is a bad habit.

[Kaname Shikara]

The program called Byki is free and you can choose through so many languages. You've got to download it though but it's worth it. ^^

[Eris]

Online language courses are universally made of suck and fail. Don't be cheap. Take a proper class if you want to learn it properly. You need the spoken element, not just (at best) repeating what the voice is saying, but actually talking it to get anywhere.

They -may- be useful as a supplement to a proper class, but they'll never be of any real help alone.

[Skylar1]

Uhh, let's see here..

you're best bet would first be to learn how to pronounce, memorize, and write the Hiragana/Katakana (simlar to the english alphabet). all 300 something of them.

Once you think you've got a pretty good grip on that, go to the book store or library and get a Japanese Dictionary with atleast 1 Japanese Grammar book. What you're going to want to do first is start picking up and memorizing basic words (things like house, food, table, blah blah etc.) and matching them to their corrisponding kanji (the complex chinese characters). Yes, you will need to know how to write them with all those little curves and lines and what not, but not until you get in the habit of the regular kana though. Remember- Practice makes perfect. This alone should take you a good few months if you do it hours at a time almost every day.

Once you've got a good clump of words memorized, move onto the grammar books. Every time you see a word you don't know, or forgot what it means- look it up! You won't learn by glancing over things. Make sure you take notes, and always look over things a few times even if you've already read it.

And don't forget, everything is usuful. If looking at manga in japanese, or listening to unsubed anime helps you, go for it. Every little bit of help you get will only make it that much easier. Just make ABSOULTELY sure that you really want to learn it. And get every oppertunity to use as much as you can. With the Internet you have virtually an unlimited supply of resources to choose from. Everyone has different styles of learning, and everyone learns at a differnt pace. Just know what best suits you, and go with it.

[Lily Rock]

I have learned these by myself, may not be 100% correct, but i am still figuring out, i want to learn Japanese cause it's a cool langue, i learned english by just playing WoW, i am a tough guy. :P

Yada: No
Honto/Hontou(NOT SURE!): Really(?)
Baka: Idiot/moron/stupid
There is some more, but my head is dizzy, have been running to much today.

And yes, i am sure i want to learn Japanese, i could've taken something like france, german, spanish, italian or such, but Japanese sounded fun and cool.

[Vyndrasta]

I've never known any.
I'm in the army so we get the Rosetta Stone language "learner".
Now I quoted "learner" because you don' really learn, you just imitate.
I haven't gotten around to japanese yet since I know the basics, right noe im at level 3 with Farsi.

[Lily Rock]

Hehe, i remembered some more.

Hai(NOT SURE!): Yes (sir).
Sayonara(NOT SURE!): Goodbye.
(HARD TO WRITE!)Gare Gare: Geez/Geesh/Yeesh etc.
(Don't really know how to write this: Teme/Theme(NOT SURE!): Them or you or *****(Oi...).

[Eris]

I forgot there's a Japanese language section to AF. So I'm moving this thread over there.

[Anyaaa]

I always wonder why people who don't speak/aren't learning Japanese comment on these threads o_O;

I'm with Eris, your best bet really is lessons but they don't come cheap so if you can't afford it, I guess your only option really is to use online resources. I highly recommend japanesepod101 (best to get a basic subscription - it's really cheap though), Tae Kim's Japanese Guide to Japanese Grammar, Denshi Jisho and japanese.about.com (I can't remember the first three URLs, you should be able to find them with a google search though).

[LavaBug]

We have two stickies in this area covering learning material...
Some of which maybe obsolete since they haven't been upated in a while, anyway:
http://www.animeforum.com/showthread.php?t=62912
http://www.animeforum.com/showthread.php?t=62913

Learning Japanese by anime: Wrong...Don't wanna hurt your feelings but stuff like baka and hontô is only gonna get so far...
From my experience anime only can help you if you already have some experience with the language...And even then it's only so you learn (often) NON-everyday vocabulary. ^^°
Best thing you can have: Japanese friends who are fluent in it
supplemented by some good books so you learn the grammatically correct forms which often differ from spoken Japanese...
Second best thing: Lessons :P

[wolfgirl90]

Learning Japanese by anime: Wrong...Don't wanna hurt your feelings but stuff like baka and hontô is only gonna get so far...
From my experience anime only can help you if you already have some experience with the language...And even then it's only so you learn (often) NON-everyday vocabulary. ^^°
Best thing you can have: Japanese friends who are fluent in it
supplemented by some good books so you learn the grammatically correct forms which often differ from spoken Japanese...
Second best thing: Lessons :P

I was about to edit my post to point this out but you beat me to it.

Yeah guys, watching anime in Japanese doesn't really teach you Japanese. Like LavaBug said, learning simple words like "baka" doesn't get you very far and can only work for so long. The best thing that anime CAN do is that you can use it to polish your Japanese skills once you are at least semi-fluent and it can show how words are used in everyday Japanese versus the formal Japanese you learn from lessons and books; beyond that, anime can't teach you a thing and you will need to learn the old fashioned way: books and lessons. Anime contains things like accents, dialects (can you tell the difference between a Tokyo accent and a Kyoto accent?) and VERY casual Japanese that can easily throw a novice off.

Yada: No
Honto/Hontou(NOT SURE!): Really(?)
Baka: Idiot/moron/stupid

Hai(NOT SURE!): Yes (sir).
Sayonara(NOT SURE!): Goodbye.
(HARD TO WRITE!)Gare Gare: Geez/Geesh/Yeesh etc.
(Don't really know how to write this: Teme/Theme(NOT SURE!): Them or you or *****(Oi...).

To start you off, I'll explain some of the words that you remember. I will give the words in romaji and hiragana since 1) its easier than Kanji and 2) romaji can become a crutch; as soon as you learn pronunciation, kana, and certain words, drop the romaji:

Yada (やだ): "No way!" (an interjection)
Hontou ni (ほんとう に): "Really?" or "Is that true?" (for the most part, only girls just say "hontou", dropping the "ni"; guys keep it)
Baka (ばか): "Fool", "Idiot", "Moron", etc (Note: be careful; this word is only innocent in certain dialects and places, like Tokyo; in other places, such as Kyoto and Osaka, this word becomes a very harsh insult, almost a slur)
Hai (はい): "Yes"
Sayounara (さようなら): "Goodbye", however this is only said when you will be gone for a long time, like "Goodbye forever" or "Farewell"; don't say this if you expect to see the person in the next day or so.
Yare Yare (やれ やれ): "Whew!", "Oh brother", "Good grief", "Geez" (also an interjection)

[Lily Rock]

Yeh, but this is how i thought why i want to learn:

First of all, cause knowing that langue is pretty cool, i like it pretty much.
And cause i want to read Manga and watch Anime, it's fun, entertaining, giving you another personality(well, for me it did!).
I could learn any other langue's as Spanish, Italian, France, German and russian, but i took Japanese cause i have atleast one reason to.

I have all time in world, but, since i see abit "negative" comments about this, i am sorry i posted it at all... T-T

[wolfgirl90]

I have all time in world, but, since i see abit "negative" comments about this, i am sorry i posted it at all... T-T

Don't take it so personally. Nobody said that you shouldn't learn Japanese because of anime; its why most get started and its a great motivator to learn the language. Its just that you can't learn Japanese simply by watching anime. You just...can't. Anyone who says you can is either ill-informed or lying to you. Its not that easy. You can certainly learn some Japanese WORDS from anime but you are not going to learn the LANGUAGE from it.

I say this because I hear it all the time from people who are learning Japanese and then wonder why they can't completely understand anime after 2 years and decided to give up the language entirely.

It took me 4 years to become fluent and I didn't have any formal training like lessons and classes. It took books, some software and LOTS of patience and practice (plus a very kind and very patient Japanese friend). So I can personally tell you that you do this without taking a class (that is NOT to say that classes are not important). However, like I said, it took 4 years of hard continuous study on my own to do it.

Learning another language is great and Japanese is a really fun language to learn and use, especially when you are watching anime. If you want to learn it, go ahead and I hope you have lots of fun (it should be fun). I'm just giving you some warnings and advice because I do not want you to quit and cop out because its hard (and Japanese can be hard for some people).

[Lily Rock]

Yeh, it where like that i mean, i have learned some, i learn by several words and if i am not 100% sure, i use google translate to make it as sure as possible(if romaji is correct), i have let's see, from 14.30 to 21:00 most days to do stuff, i have MUCH privaty in my room at my fathers house.

[Eris]

Merely learning words is not going to get you far. Word-order, grammar, inflection, pronunciation, intonation, that sort of thing.

[Aku no Hikari]

Yeh, it where like that i mean, i have learned some, i learn by several words and if i am not 100% sure, i use google translate to make it as sure as possible(if romaji is correct), i have let's see, from 14.30 to 21:00 most days to do stuff, i have MUCH privaty in my room at my fathers house.

Google translate is a very bad (the worst?) way to figure out the meaning of a word. Here, you need a dictionary:

http://www.jisho.org/

Also, like Eris said, you can't just understand sentences by learning words. You need to learn word order, grammar, etc. This is the best Japanese learning site I've seen on the whole interwebs IMHO:

http://japanese.about.com/

Don't want to be captain obvious, but... click "Start Learning" to go to the page where you can start learning.

[dabura667]

learning words randomly does not help language ability.

learning online is a good way to go. Maybe if your parents are nice enough to buy you drums, they will be nice enough to send you on an exchange program to Japan. You could homestay in Japan, and that would help your ability.

To be honest though, you are 13 years old, and given that America's education (along with Japan's) is one of the lowest in the world, and also given the amount of spelling errors, complete misuse of nouns in some cases (france instead of french, when you were listing languages) and so on, I would recommend learning more about your native language before trying to learn a foreign one...

If you are serious about learning the language, you will be learning at the beginning by comparison to your own language, but if you don't know what direct objects, indirect objects, transitive verbs, proper nouns, relative clauses, etc. are in English (I doubt that all of those are in your current curriculum) you will have difficulty in learning Japanese.


Do not take this post to heart, as it is merely my thoughts on how you could learn Japanese better.

Summary:
1. Study English as a base (to learn about linguistics in general, linguistic terms, etc.)
2. Study Japanese abroad in Japan.
3. (if 2 not possible) See the sites suggested by others.

[supensaa-kun]

you're best bet would first be to learn how to pronounce, memorize, and write the Hiragana/Katakana (simlar to the english alphabet). all 300 something of them.

There are 46 hiragana and 46 katakana, in total 92 modern kana. This may seem like a lot of "letters", but remember we also have 52 different letters, considering you have to separately learn most capital and low-cap letters.

And don't forget, everything is usuful. If looking at manga in japanese, or listening to unsubed anime helps you, go for it.

Actually, I think subbed anime works better. Watching unsubbed anime is a great way to reinforce what you have already learned, but it will hardly help you anything with learning new things like vocabulary.

For example, if you hear "boku mo daitōryō no iu koto ga kikitai", and you don't know what "daitōryō" means, you will only be able to understand "I also want to hear what [...] wants to say". You won't know what "daitōryō" means, unless you look it up when the episode it finished.
However, if you're reading the subtitles, which say "I also want to hear what the President wants to say", you can now deduce that "daitōryō" means "president".

Of course to make it work you have to pay close attention to what they say in Japanese, and not just lazily read the subtitles. The best way is to turn subtitles off, and when you don't understand something turn them on and rewind to see what they said. I tried that, but it really takes the fun out of watching. x_X

Yada (やだ): "No way!" (an interjection)

Yada is still non-standard Japanese, only spelled that way in manga and similar. It is a slang-ish abbreviation for "iya da" (いやだ; in kanji: 嫌だ), which literally means "it is disagreeable".

Learning Japanese by anime: Wrong...Don't wanna hurt your feelings but stuff like baka and hontô is only gonna get so far...
From my experience anime only can help you if you already have some experience with the language...And even then it's only so you learn (often) NON-everyday vocabulary. ^^°

I was about to edit my post to point this out but you beat me to it.

Yeah guys, watching anime in Japanese doesn't really teach you Japanese. Like LavaBug said, learning simple words like "baka" doesn't get you very far and can only work for so long. The best thing that anime CAN do is that you can use it to polish your Japanese skills once you are at least semi-fluent and it can show how words are used in everyday Japanese versus the formal Japanese you learn from lessons and books; beyond that, anime can't teach you a thing and you will need to learn the old fashioned way: books and lessons. Anime contains things like accents, dialects (can you tell the difference between a Tokyo accent and a Kyoto accent?) and VERY casual Japanese that can easily throw a novice off.

I largely agree with you two, but I want to point out that I am living evidence that learning Japanese from anime as a primary source CAN work.

I have watched anime intensively for about 4 years before choosing Japanese Language and Culture as my major at university half a year ago. (and I have been listening to Japanese anime music and learning their lyrics even before that. Animelyrics.com FTEW!) In those years I have supplemented watching anime with extensive research into Japanese grammar and expressions on the internet. Armed with the basics I plunged myself into anime and started to recognize and reinforce the things I had learned, and pick up new vocabulary and simple constructions. (refer to my rant about subbed anime before) By combining anime with some online research like this, I have developed a large vocabulary and a good feel for Japanese grammar. (for a "beginner" at least xD)

I won't say it's a good way to learn Japanese, or that it's an alternative to proper lessons. However, when properly supplemented it does work, and it helped me develop all-round. I'm still far ahead of my average classmate here at university. And I'm no exception, because my cousin took the exact same path for learning Japanese (hard core anime watching and self-tutoring at high school, and majoring Japanese at university after graduation).

There is one skill you really have to teach yourself to survive learning from anime though, and that is to recognize different styles of speech. I have become a master at recognizing slang, archaic constructions, levels of politeness, stereotypical speech, Kansai dialect, etc. Without the ability to keep these apart it will be like trying to learn 5 languages at once, and you won't know which things you should remember and which you shouldn't pay too much attention to.



Well... that's my two cents.

[wolfgirl90]

I won't say it's a good way to learn Japanese, or that it's an alternative to proper lessons. However, when properly supplemented it does work, and it helped me develop all-round. I'm still far ahead of my average classmate here at university. And I'm no exception, because my cousin took the exact same path for learning Japanese (hard core anime watching and self-tutoring at high school, and majoring Japanese at university after graduation).

I said that anime couldn't TEACH a person Japanese. That's what some people claim, that they can "learn" Japanese from anime. This simply isn't true mostly because people use fansubs that may or may not have correct translations and usage of the words. One can SOME Japanese, but they are not going to learn the language by sitting down and watching Japanese cartoons.

I didn't say that a person couldn't use anime as a supplement. In fact, I believe I said earlier that watching anime can be beneficial once a person has gained some knowledge in it first and it can be used to polish one's language skills (you quoted me saying as such).

You can certainly use it as a supplement to research (I also know this from experience; learned Japanese basically the same way you are), but it really can't be the primary source of Japanese language education for the simple fact that in order to get the biggest gain from anime, one needs to already have a bit of knowledge of the language. As some people, including myself, have already said, taking snippets of vocabulary here and grammar there is not going to teach one Japanese. SOME Japanese, yes, but certainly not the language itself.

[Rei]

I agree. There is no way you can learn Japanese (as a language) through anime.

[MirrorToTheMoon]

Hmm, you could try Youtube for some lessons and ideas on pronouncing Japanese, but they (obviously) aren't as good as real actual lessons.
I, personally, think that anime is not really the best way to learn Japanese, knowing fail fansubs and all, and how some characters - for example, Ku Fei from Negima! - put 'accents' at the end of their speech; Ku Fei says '-aru' at the end of all her lines to show that she is Chinese. But if anime works for you, by all means, go ahead.

[LavaBug]

I was more refering to: Learning from anime only and taking the speech you hear for faced value. If you supplement it by your own research for grammar and vocabulary and the like you might really get something out if it.
Still think it only gets you so far when being in the *real* japan where subjects and speechpatterns are very different from what you hear in anime.
(At least, that was the impression that I got when I was there...But that depends on the individual)

Knowing stereotypical speech patterns f.e. is no bad thing...but in the worst case you only get a glimpse of how some nerds in a Tokyo production studio imagine people in the Kansai-Area to speak like...
(Which imho would be in the same league as learning about Kanadian speech patterns and people by only watching south park.)

Finally, using fansubs has some drawbacks too, as the subtitles could just be either wrong or improvised, *free* translations...In either case you get an inaccurate picture of what's being said...

However, if you keep an objective perspective about all that..it can work...

(But still whenever I thing about anime, and learning Japanese from it, I can't get out of my head, that a friend of mine who went overseas before me, got a pamphlet from his university, strongly advising the exchange students not to use stuff like "kono oresama" when talking about themselves :P)

I start babbling so I hereby declare this post - over.

[chocomallows]

Finally I found a Usefull thread, anyways thanks for the post im gonna learn this stuff, and i agree that learning japanese in anime is worng..


Only thing i learned from Anime is

NANI?!?! meaning : WHAT?!?!

lolz