Progression

[Lola Granola]

Okay, so the thread title is a little vague and bold for what you're about to see. Allow me to briefly explain. I'll be 23 next month and I've just graduated from a university with a 4 year degree. Instead of continuing to law school I've decided to walk off the straight shot and pursue my interest in fine arts. Of course, this means I have a LOT of catching up to do. I'm practicing to get to get a decent portfolio together, so I can go back to school for this. I have only just started doing this, even during college I never had time to draw as a hobby. The last time I seriously picked up a pencil was probably seven to eight years ago. Now at this point there's probably some skepticism, but this is one of those things I don't want to look back on in 30 years and think, "what if?". Right now my goal is progression, not necessarily product.

Any criticism and advice on improvement would be much appreciated. Because I've just started all I really have are observations and copies from anatomy books.

* I'm not sure how observational nudity taken from anatomy books/studio drawing sessions is tolerated in the fan art forum, as it is necessary in the learning process - but if violates the rules, and nudity is nudity, then I apologize ahead of time.

[RaShayRitto]

the last two stand out to me because the poses are not only dramatic and interesting, you made them believable as well. They seem very natural to the observer. I can relate to your decision to pursue your passion (I'm making the jump from mechanical engineering to music recording), and I wish you the best!

You clearly have talent and your skills will sharpen through learning and practice. I think you'll be fine

[MoroDashi]

Your drawings are beautiful!
I love the last one .
keeeep them up (:

[Fabala]

I certainly see the raw talent present, which is going to be essential (I think) in pursuing the fine arts. Good on you for taking the plunge and starting another degree. It's important to do what you love, and not attempt force yourself to love the thing you're doing.

Anyway. The first thing I would recommend is that you practice, practice, practice. Keep drawing pads and pencils handy as often as possible, and try to capture whatever catches your attention. Take photographs to work from later, if that's helpful. As you seem interested in the human figure, it would probably be worthwhile for you to find more resources in that area. Anatomy for the Artist by Tom Flint is excellent. He gives useful material on human figure proportions, starting with a basic understanding of both the underlying skeleton and muscles underlying the skin. I think this is an area most untrained artists struggle with, and I think it's a more effective way of understanding the human body in art.

[Ollie]

(I apologize in advance if I come across as self-centered in this post because I'm going to try to explain one or two methods and will use my own art as reference for that. The focus is nonetheless all on you, babe.)

What you have here is great. Copying from photos and other drawings is actually a great learning tool and you're getting some great practice in. It made me very happy to read that you draw every day now... that is something I have not done in a long time and I'm beginning to think it's not just a drought now. :\ Keep up with it, don't let yourself get burnt out, and always search for new things to draw.

I see here you're decent at human form, at least by observation - that's good. Consider going out and sitting on the park bench and drawing the scenery around you. Try to focus on that one tree with half its leaves left, see if you can draw some of its larger branches' twists convincingly. Try to imagine that you can see through objects or people and draw *all* of them, like they are made of glass and you need to include overlapping lines. (Example) Another thing is to draw lines only on what you can see but so that you emphasize shape (example); this would actually help your brain "learn" shape and depth quite a bit.

Um... i don't recall what the name of this sort of life drawing technique is, but there is a form of art where all you draw is lines but you cannot lift your pen or pencil off of the paper. There's one where you never look at the paper, ONLY at the subject, and there's one where you do. Both will help a lot (though I think the one where you don't look is better for ya brain, even if it looks uglier), and sometimes the results can be pretty cool.

One more thing you should definitely try is drawing values, rather than lines. Have Garrett sit his bum down somewhere and shine a light over his head and sketch in all the shadows you see. Or you can do a self-portrait using a mirror and a small lamp, whatevs. Once again, this will help you gain an understanding of depth, as well as light and shadows, since you'll see how defined a face is by how the light falls on it, and that, despite how it looks in some artwork or photos, there is never a time where a person's face is half light and half dark split right down the middle; light reflects off of everything, even dull clothing, so below the person's jaw where it should be dark (if the light source is coming from above) you'll find a sort of dark midtone from the light that reflected off their chest, or something of the sort.

Though if you want to try practicing values alone (for simplicity's sake), you could just draw an apple set on your table or a ball and see how light curves around it and reflects off the table.

And since I believe I cannot stress it enough for any self-teaching art student:



GET IT GET IT GET IT

I can't wait to see what more you produce. :3

[Paain]

you have good detailing and shading,and on your last two i liked how you mad them do poises which you did splendidly so keep up and you'll catch up

[Lola Granola]

Thanks everyone for the advice and encouragement. Every little bit helps.

Ollie I didn't even know you posted until now. Thanks for all that advice, I really appreciate it. I've got that Betty Edwards book! I haven't cracked it open yet, though. Apparently it is the book Digipen sends home first year students during the summertime as well. I'll definitely try out some value study next, scenery intimidates me but I know I should do that soon as well.

Here's another figure drawing.

[Snowscala_Xx]

your art makes me happy. I've always though realism was that best form of art.

[Teddy2116]

Everything looks great, yet I think the face proportions are a little off but the again I'm look at this screen without my glasses lol

Overall I like it

[Lola Granola]

Thanks! Yes, the face proportions in my drawings focusing on those are definitely off. Another thing I need to work on. Well, I need to work on everything of course!

After reading Ollie's response I decided to try a drawing with more value. Here's a sketch of Garrett's head. He's trying to stay awake while reading a textbook. Garrett doesn't have a jawline, which explains the lack thereof. I probably didn't do it right since I drew the lines first. Maybe I'll try again tonight o_O'.

[Ollie]

O lawdy doing that with a pencil would be time consuming and painful, especially since the graphite in pencil is very narrow. I would recommend buying some charcoal (compressed charcoal if you don't want it to rub/fall off super easy) and some cheap newsprint paper to draw on. The charcoal is darker without being shiny like graphite (and like graphite you can buy varying "hardness" so that you can control how dark you want it without having to resort to smearing it all). It can be pretty messy though, so don't do it on a cloth couch unless you know how to clean that out, 'cause I don't.

If you do try charcoal, one method one of my teachers taught us was shading in the entire paper to a middle gray, then erasing out the highlights in what you are drawing (a kneaded eraser is used to dab at the paper and gently lift off the charcoal, but you can use whatever you like; it's just extra useful since you can mold it into sharper points for smaller details), and then add in the darker tones. It's a lot of fun and can make some cool effects.

[Lola Granola]

Oh DUH LOL. I'm such a noob. Thanks for the tip with the charcoal, definitely would not have known that.

Hopefully you can tell this is a dying rose. I put this under a light as well. For such a simple object this was so freaking hard to do.

[Teddy2116]

Hmm... a little too much on the pedals for my taste but everything else looks great. You're getting better

[Lola Granola]

Okay, wasn't all that happy with my last sketch. I started this one doing what Ollie said, filling in the background first. I'm much happier with this result.

[Teddy2116]

Beautiful, just beautiful.

[Lola Granola]

Thank you! I'm finding out that I like drawing the same things multiple times to help me look at things harder and notice differences easier.

I was laying in bed last night, and for some reason I was thinking about still life drawings. I was thinking about how I would make a still life interesting because people are usually so bored by them. How would I make a still life stand out in my portfolio? The rose lead to an idea: composing a still life of important objects, that are often overlooked, in Disney movies. I think that would help make one of my still life drawings memorable.

Here's what I'm thinking so far:

Beauty and the Beast
- rose, under a bell cover (if I can find one)

Cinderella
- glass slipper or clear slipper

Snow White
- apple

Sleepy Beauty
- spool of thread

The Little Mermaid
- a fork

Aladdin
- magical looking lamp

Mulan
- lotus flower hair comb

Alice in Wonderland
- tea cup and saucer

Please help me with any other ideas involving objects in Disney movies! I'm looking for things that are prominent, not like... a leaf for Pocahontas, or something.

[Teddy2116]

Micky's wizard hat in Fantasia
The umbrella from Mary Poppins
That music player thingy from Tarzan (it stuck out to me in KH)

I would of thought of more but I need to re-watch a lot of my old movies lol
good luck I know that your drawings will turn out great

[October_23]

Originally Posted by Ollie

Um... i don't recall what the name of this sort of life drawing technique is, but there is a form of art where all you draw is lines but you cannot lift your pen or pencil off of the paper. There's one where you never look at the paper, ONLY at the subject, and there's one where you do. Both will help a lot (though I think the one where you don't look is better for ya brain, even if it looks uglier), and sometimes the results can be pretty cool.

Ooooh, how I hated that in school. I got out of doing realism quickly (esp. humans...kept a bit of it w/my equine art, though). But man, I admire anyone who masters it; that's talent!^^

[October_23]

Originally Posted by Lola Granola

I'm finding out that I like drawing the same things multiple times to help me look at things harder and notice differences easier.

Me, too! That's how I learned! I'd sketch something out and re-do what worked out, or was visually correct. Even if that meant tracing over my original sketch. I found it help me understand why things worked, while ingraining it visual in my mind and the motion in my hand. That way, next time I wouldn't have to sketch as much to get the correct placement. If that makes any sense?!

Anyhoo...I agree w/what's been said. Your faces lack symmetry and depth, but your human forms, which are harder to me, are marvelous!!

I like the rose, too. It's depressing. Which is also why I like it!

And kudos to you for pursuing your dream! G'luck!

[The Grey Crane]

Originally Posted by Lola Granola

Thank you! I'm finding out that I like drawing the same things multiple times to help me look at things harder and notice differences easier.

Since you like drawing the same things multiple times then i have a suggestion, do MANY sketches in an hour or two.

One of the few things i enjoyed doing during my college years are our fast-paced life sketching activities wherein the professor would bring in a model and the model would change his/her pose every few minutes. We were required to draw at least four drawings per pose, so that means one frontal, one back view, and two side views meaning left and right. The catch here is that you have to be quick or you'll get left out since the model changes positions quickly.

The four drawings per pose thing is fairly easy, the required quantity of drawings ballooned as the semester progressed and soon we were doing hundreds of sketches in just an hour, even just under an hour. We were never required to do at least four drawings per pose anymore, instead we should do semi-side views, aerial views, any view possible... if not, we wouldn't be able to reach the required number of sketches in that given period.

The activities were easy for me since i don't have problems with anatomy and gestures but for you who wants to polish your anatomy i think this is a perfect activity and training regimen. It's rigorous but you'll be quickly improving, seriously, especially in gestures and anatomy... and take note of speed.

So grab a buddy, your husband, your mom, anyone willing, and try doing what i suggested. Do it under an hour or two and do it systematically, you don't have to do hundreds in an hour during your first try, 20-30 would be good enough. Your sketches don't have to be slick, but be sure to capture some detail and make it look decent. The point here is not about making a masterpiece, but training towards a given goal.

Originally Posted by Lola Granola

I was laying in bed last night, and for some reason I was thinking about still life drawings. I was thinking about how I would make a still life interesting because people are usually so bored by them. How would I make a still life stand out in my portfolio? The rose lead to an idea: composing a still life of important objects, that are often overlooked, in Disney movies. I think that would help make one of my still life drawings memorable.

Please help me with any other ideas involving objects in Disney movies! I'm looking for things that are prominent, not like... a leaf for Pocahontas, or something.

Meh, i don't like Still Life, but that's just me. I think it's boring and depth-lacking when done in pure form, but i think it could be worked on when it gets bolstered by strong imagination. Anyway....

Cinderella's pumpkin carriage
- it's a grand object, tickles imagination, and has a lot of details that you should be working on.

Those animate objects in Beauty and the Beast
- the kettle, the candelabra, and the organ, or are there more? Anyway, those guys/things. Candelabras and kettles are commonplace in still life paintings, but those objects having facial features and expressions is a different thing.

Pirate stuff from Pirates of the Caribbean
- this could be anything from pistols, treasure chests, and maps (or globes) to eyepatches, corsair hats, and bandannas. I don't know 'bout you but i have never seen a still life artwork with a 'pirate theme'.

The Notre Dame bell
- yep, we've got big bells from every corner of the world, from cathedrals to AC/DC concerts. But since you wanna stick with Disney stuff, the Notre Dame bell is the one for you. You don't usually see still life artworks wherein the view is perched on a high bell tower. You don't usually see still life artworks wherein the background is an aerial view of a city. One thing that makes this choice extra special is the high demand for shades. Take note that the bell is inside a bell tower with very little light passing through, and the view outside is Notre Dame - just right for the application of dramatic lighting. Well, if you want to take on shades and shadows, this is the one to go.

[Ollie]

I want to add on to what Grey Crane said in regards to the figure drawing. My first life drawing teacher had us do poses ranging anywhere from 3 seconds to 3+ hours. This is one of the short ones (and he loved and obsessed over the one on the right) though I don't recall exactly what the timer was, probably ~10 seconds. The necessity of speed forces you to quickly pick out what is and is not necessary to accurately convey the figure you are drawing. It's also good way to learn movement, perhaps since you literally have to have it *flow* out of you with very little time to think it over, and have to use quick lines instead of sketchy details.

Personally I love seeing people's still life, especially of the human figure. It's a naturally beautiful thing in all its forms and I love seeing how artists render it. c:

Good job on the rose! Question - behind the rose, was there a wall, or empty space? As in, if you took a photo, would we see a hallway, or just the box it is propped up against, etc.

edit* ONE MORE THING I keep forgetting to mention. You said your proportions in face drawings (at least one of them) is off. The drawing you did of yourself is based off of a photo. Have you tried digitally overlapping the photo and drawing in Photoshop? The difference may be overwhelming (with the exception of *very* good likeness illustrations that tends to happen, believe me!) but it may help you understand what you did wrong and how to improve it over time. I know that when I try to draw the likeness of someone from a photo or from life, knowing general facial anatomy helps me to figure out why something looks off sometimes.

[The Grey Crane]

And if possible, never stick with just one person or one KIND of person as a model. Find a skinny person, a plump, and a muscular one. Use a male, and a female, yadda yadda yadda. Well, you know what i mean...

If you could find people willing to help you with this, you'll be doing quantum leaps towards improvement.

[Lola Granola]

I totally know what you guys are talking about in regards to the second/minute sketches. I was actually going to attend a nude modeling session this Sunday but chickened out because Garrett's mother (who is sort of my mentor now) couldn't come with me.

Since I haven't had an art class since junior high I would not know where to begin in an environment like that o_O. I know it sounds silly that I chickened out but 1. my drawings are child's play, 2. I would not know how to approach a gesture drawing, and 3. I don't even know how to sit or stand at these sort of things, or if that even matters! Or how dense the charcoal I use should be. All these things make me nervous about my first time for some reason. Maybe it has something to do with my age.

Garrett's mother did give me a CD of nude models in various 360 degree poses that I could time myself on. I will make plans to begin that this weekend. She also said she would be able to come with me to this week's session so I'll post what I have on that, even if it is all terrabad.

Ollie - That is a great idea with the photoshop. I should try that out once I get a scanner. All the sketches I've posted thus far have been taken from a camera. Also, there was empty space behind the rose. If you took a photo you would see the dining room. The rose itself was so difficult for me I didn't even feel like tackling a background that night.

Thank you both for the guidance.

[Ollie]

Originally Posted by Lola Granola

Since I haven't had an art class since junior high I would not know where to begin in an environment like that o_O. I know it sounds silly that I chickened out but 1. my drawings are child's play, 2. I would not know how to approach a gesture drawing, and 3. I don't even know how to sit or stand at these sort of things, or if that even matters! Or how dense the charcoal I use should be. All these things make me nervous about my first time for some reason. Maybe it has something to do with my age.

Mesdemoiselles, that isn't silly, not in the least bit. I'm out of practice for life drawing, so if I were pick it up again I'd probably spend the first few minutes staring at the paper wondering where the hell to start. This is why those quickie sketches are so great since they usually start off life drawing sessions with those as warm-ups.

As for the background, when you do get to them, don't worry about making it supa-complex; once again, focus on values. How dark is it behind the rose? Is the rose darker than the background, or vice verse? Just shade in some bits to show there is more to your illustration than a single object floating in space. You will work in further details when you're ready.

have you checked out the Concept Art dot com forums? They're probably the biggest and most famous art people collected in one site in the whole interbutts. You may be intimidated by some of the stuff in there, but it can be very useful to see how others work, since a lot of the posters there will show step-by-step progress for critiques (and the critiques are useful to keep in mind as well, even if it's not your drawing). There's a really useful color theory thread in there somewhere that I would post but I don't have the link right now and I'm late to class, and since you're just starting out with a focus on drawing that may be a little too much for right now anyway.

Crane - you wouldn't happen to post there (or on any other art comm) would you? <.<

This thread makes me giddy. I wish there were more serious threads here than 'hay look at this anime drawing i copied' ._.

[Mokochocolatte]

Originally Posted by Ollie

If you do try charcoal, one method one of my teachers taught us was shading in the entire paper to a middle gray, then erasing out the highlights in what you are drawing (a kneaded eraser is used to dab at the paper and gently lift off the charcoal, but you can use whatever you like; it's just extra useful since you can mold it into sharper points for smaller details), and then add in the darker tones. It's a lot of fun and can make some cool effects.

We did that recently in Art 2, except we had to use a fixative to hold the dark tones a bit more. Erasing shields are so useful for highlighting<3 Rubbing the paper into a middle gray took us a while. We scraped the (vine?) charcoal onto the paper and smeared it with Tissue paper, and getting it even without the clear circles annoyed me so much.
ooshy ooshy ooshy