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Thread: R.I.P. One manga

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    Default R.I.P. One manga

    The manga site One Manga is going to remove all manga content due o increased presure on them.
    You have till some time next week to read everything you can. There other manga sites but just to let you know you have till next week for One Manga.
    This is no joke.

    Also I Know that some people disapprove of manga's being released online in the way that One Manga allows them to be released so lets have a little discussion on this as well as One Manga going down.

    I am a little sad because I really liked One Manga, now I have to find one of the other 9001 site's that do the same thing they do.
    loops....


  2. #2
    Senior Member Lord has a reputation beyond repute Lord has a reputation beyond repute Lord has a reputation beyond repute Lord has a reputation beyond repute Lord has a reputation beyond repute Lord has a reputation beyond repute Lord has a reputation beyond repute Lord has a reputation beyond repute Lord has a reputation beyond repute Lord has a reputation beyond repute Lord has a reputation beyond repute Lord's Avatar
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    Default Re: R.I.P. One manga

    The anime/manga world has become very troublesome, first of Dattebayo had to end their Naruto/Bleach subtranslation and now One Manga is falling. And I especially hate when they transform the anime and the manga to childish cartoons, Cartoon Network is ruining Naruto as we speak. They are seriously trying to transform every good anime into Pokemon..

    it blows...


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    Default Re: R.I.P. One manga

    i already found new manga reading sites like onemanga

    You find life unfair? Try being and egg. You only get laid once, you only get eaten once, it takes four minutes to get hard, but only two to get soft, you share a box with eleven other guys, but what's worse was the only chick to sit on you is your mom!

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    Default Re: R.I.P. One manga

    It's a shame to see that O.M. is going to be closing its doors. It was the very first online manga reader that I found quite a few years back, so it's a bit sad to see it go. Still, all good things must come to an end; and, honestly, with the recent legal pressure that closed down Manga Toshokan, I can't say this came as a very big surprise. Guess we'll just have to wait and see if the other large manga sites will cave in as well.

    So far though, as least as far as I know, it's only been the online manga readers to have been shut down. Nothing's happened to any of the scanlation sites themselves, at least not those that I pay attention to. As long as they're still up and running, it won't be all that much of an inconvenience to me.

    My thanks to Xey Oiz for the awesome new set.

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    Default Re: R.I.P. One manga

    Let's go through the facts, and I'll address some of the statements made in this thread:

    1. All of these sites which allow you to download or watch/read anime and manga online are illegal. They are distributing media without the consent of the copyright holders. None of them should exist anyway. Manga publishers are entirely within their right to shut down One Manga, and in fact, they should have closed it a long time ago.

    2. These websites have been the cause, or at least a very large part of, a drastic decrease in anime and manga sales across the world. Anime and manga sales in Japan have slumped some 20 to 30% since 2006, and several formerly large animation studios have declared bankruptcy or gone out of business. These companies with decreasing sales still have to pay for materials, animators or mangaka and assistants, printing, advertising, and distribution.

    3. When animation studios and manga publishers have more income they can afford to pay workers more, and afford to hire more people to work on the anime/manga, which results in higher quality animation or artwork, and more high quality series being released.

    4. It's well noted that the average animator makes nearly nothing at all anymore. A typical animator could make about 1000000 per year, and while this may appear to be a large number, it is th equivelent of about $10,000USD per year, and it has been frequently cited that because they get paid by the number of frames they produce, they earn as little as $2-$3 per hour. I don't quite remember the stats on mangaka earnings, but unless one is the author of a very popular manga (Dragonball, One Piece, Naruto), then pay is barely any higher than that for an animator. Many mangaka will frequently hold a second full-time job to help pay for their living. At this point, animators and the majority of mangaka could make more money working at a fast food restaurant. And most certainly the growing rate of piracy of anime and manga effects these numbers.

    5. Naruto is a childish manga. It is written and targeted at males 8-15 years old. The dialogue is childish, the characters are (mostly) childish, and the humor is childish. In fact, the online scanlations you read try to make it not childish by adding in more mature language and occasionally swear words...though the argument could be made that there are not "swear words" in Japanese the same way there is in English...meaning they can't really swear at all; though rudeness is entirely possible. The same is true for most shounen manga that you read online...the American anime and manga distributors are not dumbing the anime and manga down for children, that's simply how they always were in reality. An exception to this would be One Piece, which 4kids openly admitted it tried to dumb down to target children 7-11 years old.

    6. Until recently, it was only illegal in Japan for anime and manga to be uploaded to the internet, but not to download it (unless it was licensed). This changed on January 1, 2010 when a law went into effect making it also illegal to download anime and manga, since it is still in violation of the copyright. The law isn't anime-and-manga specific, but is in regard to all copyrighted media; this updated Japanese copyright law to be more aligned with other countries. After this happened, a number of Japanese and American distributors and copyright holders joined together to slow down the piracy of manga. This group, called the JDCA, announced that it identified 30 large-scale websites that were distributing their copyrighted content online without permission, and that it intended to shut them down; they first offered a warning, and if that was not followed, they would take legal action. A number of very large scanlation sites and a few manga-readers and archives (including the largest scanlation community), before even getting their warning, removed the copyrighted content from their servers, while others (like OneManga) waited for the offical C&D letters to be served. Once received, they had to shut down or be faced with legal action. The JDCA says they have no intent to entirely stop manga piracy, as they realize it is impossible, but they wish to tip the curve of convenience away from piracy.

    Edit: 7. I just checked out the OneManga site, and I noticed this in their statement: "Manga publishers have recently changed their stance on manga scanlations and made it clear that they no longer approve of it". Let me just point out that manga publishers never approved of scanlation, and were in fact always strongly opposed to it. Granted, manga-reader sites generally don't know crap about the manga industry or scanlation community, since they just take whatever they can find from the actual scanlators and throw it up on their website and rake in ad revenue. Anyway...it's a ludicrous statement; just be away of that.

    My response to this is simple: Good. While I enjoy scanlations, I also buy what I like once it is available officially in English. The problem is that the majority of people do not do this and that has had a very large negative financial effect on the manga industry. Now the people who only pirated their manga and didn't buy any will actually go out and support the artists, authors, and the industry that they enjoy so much.
    Last edited by Gjallarhorn; 07-22-2010 at 02:16 PM.

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    Default Re: R.I.P. One manga

    Doesn't matter if their "illegal" But it doesn't really matter if Onemanga dies. There are other sites. Ones that are fair hidden and will continue on without much persecution. Though it will be sad to see it go.
    Last edited by Gjallarhorn; 07-22-2010 at 02:27 PM. Reason: I hit "edit" instead of "quote"...my bad...
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    Default Re: R.I.P. One manga

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinigami Hilde View Post
    Doesn't matter if their "illegal" But it doesn't really matter if Onemanga dies. There are other sites. Ones that are fair hidden and will continue on without much persecution. Though it will be sad to see it go.


    As one site goes down, it's followers will go to other sites. One or more of those sites become popular and it's traffic becomes heavy. That makes it a target for the JDCA, and they will take the same action against the site as the original site.

    The cycle repeats.

    And it does matter quite a bit that it is illegal; see my above posts for the effects such sites have.

    "The color fades along the intervals I follow."

  8. #8
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    Default Re: R.I.P. One manga

    I too buy manga's however I read a lot and I use online scans to see if I even want to buy it. I only buy like 1% of what I read.... I read a lot. I would have wasted too much money on stuff that would not have been worth it had it not been for online manga.
    Honestly I think manga companies should make site's to read thier manga's on. If you like it you buy it, and it would steal from the ones that steal. see what I did there? Anyways I can't remember his name but a few years back a guy released his book online the night before it hit the stands and he got a best seller! Posting it online yourself can help you and take down those that would steal your media works, ect...

    Until Manga publisher's make thier works easy to access on the internet there will always be a demand for their works with or without thier consent.
    If I read something I like I will buy it. Sure not everyone is like that, but at least they could make ad money off those people, and punish those whom they can't find that steal their work.

    Thanks for all that info though Gjallarhorn, I honestly did not know some of that.

    But ya my basic thought on this is don't supress, counter the illegal crap.
    loops....


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    Default Re: R.I.P. One manga

    The finally started taking down manga sites?

    Took them long enough.

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    Default Re: R.I.P. One manga

    Quote Originally Posted by Gjallarhorn View Post
    Let's go through the facts, and I'll address some of the statements made in this thread:

    1. All of these sites which allow you to download or watch/read anime and manga online are illegal. They are distributing media without the consent of the copyright holders. None of them should exist anyway. Manga publishers are entirely within their right to shut down One Manga, and in fact, they should have closed it a long time ago.

    2. These websites have been the cause, or at least a very large part of, a drastic decrease in anime and manga sales across the world. Anime and manga sales in Japan have slumped some 20 to 30% since 2006, and several formerly large animation studios have declared bankruptcy or gone out of business. These companies with decreasing sales still have to pay for materials, animators or mangaka and assistants, printing, advertising, and distribution.

    3. When animation studios and manga publishers have more income they can afford to pay workers more, and afford to hire more people to work on the anime/manga, which results in higher quality animation or artwork, and more high quality series being released.

    4. It's well noted that the average animator makes nearly nothing at all anymore. A typical animator could make about 1000000 per year, and while this may appear to be a large number, it is th equivelent of about $10,000USD per year, and it has been frequently cited that because they get paid by the number of frames they produce, they earn as little as $2-$3 per hour. I don't quite remember the stats on mangaka earnings, but unless one is the author of a very popular manga (Dragonball, One Piece, Naruto), then pay is barely any higher than that for an animator. Many mangaka will frequently hold a second full-time job to help pay for their living. At this point, animators and the majority of mangaka could make more money working at a fast food restaurant. And most certainly the growing rate of piracy of anime and manga effects these numbers.

    5. Naruto is a childish manga. It is written and targeted at males 8-15 years old. The dialogue is childish, the characters are (mostly) childish, and the humor is childish. In fact, the online scanlations you read try to make it not childish by adding in more mature language and occasionally swear words...though the argument could be made that there are not "swear words" in Japanese the same way there is in English...meaning they can't really swear at all; though rudeness is entirely possible. The same is true for most shounen manga that you read online...the American anime and manga distributors are not dumbing the anime and manga down for children, that's simply how they always were in reality. An exception to this would be One Piece, which 4kids openly admitted it tried to dumb down to target children 7-11 years old.

    6. Until recently, it was only illegal in Japan for anime and manga to be uploaded to the internet, but not to download it (unless it was licensed). This changed on January 1, 2010 when a law went into effect making it also illegal to download anime and manga, since it is still in violation of the copyright. The law isn't anime-and-manga specific, but is in regard to all copyrighted media; this updated Japanese copyright law to be more aligned with other countries. After this happened, a number of Japanese and American distributors and copyright holders joined together to slow down the piracy of manga. This group, called the JDCA, announced that it identified 30 large-scale websites that were distributing their copyrighted content online without permission, and that it intended to shut them down; they first offered a warning, and if that was not followed, they would take legal action. A number of very large scanlation sites and a few manga-readers and archives (including the largest scanlation community), before even getting their warning, removed the copyrighted content from their servers, while others (like OneManga) waited for the offical C&D letters to be served. Once received, they had to shut down or be faced with legal action. The JDCA says they have no intent to entirely stop manga piracy, as they realize it is impossible, but they wish to tip the curve of convenience away from piracy.

    Edit: 7. I just checked out the OneManga site, and I noticed this in their statement: "Manga publishers have recently changed their stance on manga scanlations and made it clear that they no longer approve of it". Let me just point out that manga publishers never approved of scanlation, and were in fact always strongly opposed to it. Granted, manga-reader sites generally don't know crap about the manga industry or scanlation community, since they just take whatever they can find from the actual scanlators and throw it up on their website and rake in ad revenue. Anyway...it's a ludicrous statement; just be away of that.

    My response to this is simple: Good. While I enjoy scanlations, I also buy what I like once it is available officially in English. The problem is that the majority of people do not do this and that has had a very large negative financial effect on the manga industry. Now the people who only pirated their manga and didn't buy any will actually go out and support the artists, authors, and the industry that they enjoy so much.

    It is still troublesome for those who read and watch manga/anime illegally. The majority of all people who read the manga or watch the anime outside of japan got to know of it all thanks to the illegal piracy. Thanks to the piracy the manga and anime has spread even more, now the authors and the industry has more support then before. And its capable of increasing the spread even more.

    If the piracy never started there is no chance in the world that it would be so famous as it is today. Therefore it is a shame that sooner or later every illegal anime/manga will be stopped. BUT, it is still illegal and that makes it a shame for us who provide it and use it. Blaming the piracy is wrong, and I simply think that you are exaggurating.
    I don't really think that the piracy can make such a fuss for the artists and authors. Even though they may be gaining a lower profit it doesn't mean that it is so low that it would be better working in a restuarant. If you are correct, why isn't the piracy drastically destroying hollywood like its destroying the japanese manga/anime industry?


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    Default Re: R.I.P. One manga

    Hollywood has nothing to lose,because most movie sites are living with viruses.They also know they will still get a huge profit.

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    Default Re: R.I.P. One manga

    Quote Originally Posted by caelesti View Post
    It is still troublesome for those who read and watch manga/anime illegally. The majority of all people who read the manga or watch the anime outside of japan got to know of it all thanks to the illegal piracy. Thanks to the piracy the manga and anime has spread even more, now the authors and the industry has more support then before. And its capable of increasing the spread even more.

    If the piracy never started there is no chance in the world that it would be so famous as it is today. Therefore it is a shame that sooner or later every illegal anime/manga will be stopped. BUT, it is still illegal and that makes it a shame for us who provide it and use it. Blaming the piracy is wrong, and I simply think that you are exaggurating.
    I don't really think that the piracy can make such a fuss for the artists and authors. Even though they may be gaining a lower profit it doesn't mean that it is so low that it would be better working in a restuarant. If you are correct, why isn't the piracy drastically destroying hollywood like its destroying the japanese manga/anime industry?
    Actually, the numbers I cited are correct, and it is entirely correct that most mangaka would make more money working in fast food than as a mangaka.

    Internet piracy has, indeed, made anime more popular around the world...but they are pirating it, not buying it. So while the popular increases, the amount of profit the industry generates is not. As I said, it is actually falling. You can't really argue concepts like this when all of the numbers are saying otherwise.

    But this only effects the distribution of manga and anime around the world, where it is still spreading, and this will only really effect the local distributors. In America, this means Viz, TokyoPop, etc. Viz itself recently laid off 40% of its employees as a means of lowering their bottom line, as their profits have fallen some 20% over the last 4 years. TokyoPop, over the last several years, has many of its low-selling titles because they either were not generating a profit or were not generating nearly enough of a profit; what they earn off the manga sold has to cover licensing costs, translation, editing, printing, distribution, and paying employees for the labor involved.

    In Japan, where manga is no longer spread, is where I cited the 30% decrease in sales from. They aren't pirating manga because that's how they discovered it, or because its hard for them to find, they're pirating it because its convenient and free.

    You are correct in saying that if piracy never started there is no chance that anime and manga would be as popular around the world as it is today. And while piracy is not the only source of the industries financial woes, it is the largest. This is why the industry has, over the last several years, become so combative against it. The other large issue is that the same basic method for manga publishing and distribution has been in place for several decades and seen no real update. You can say I am exaggerating all you'd like, but that doesn't change the numbers, nor what can be interpreted from them. Saying that blaming piracy is wrong is simply being willfully ignorant of the effects of piracy, or at least the economic process.

    If you pay attention to anime sales numbers, the industries profit grew rapid from the early 1990's, also around which time anime began becoming popular in the West, until about 2006; 2005-2006 is around the time when anime piracy in particular exploded, when the fansubbing community exploded and became more streamlined, and when scanlation went from getting some scans and adding text over them into a full process of cleaning and editing the manga. Anime piracy has been around since the 70s, when people would record episodes on VHS, add subtitles, and make copies and mail them around the world, but it was not until shortly after the turn of the millennium that it exploded and turned into a near-industry as we know it today. The decline in sales and the rate of piracy increase match up very closely.

    As I said before, piracy is a huge problem for authors, animators, publishers, etc. They get paid based on 1) the work they put in, and 2) sales. In fact, most of their income comes from tankoban sales. As I said, sales have dropped of 20-30% in most cases, meaning a large portion of the mangakas profit has disappeared. And mangaka never made a large amount of money in the first place, even at the industry's peak, mangaka made the equivalent of about $20,000-$30,000USD, and most of them still had side jobs to help them get by. As I said, I don't have an exact number for the earnings of mangaka at present, but it's somewhere on the order of $10,000USD-$20,000USD (excluding names like Eiichiro Oda or Akira Toriyama). Working in fast food full time would provide around $15,000USD-$25,000USD per year. There is also a number of mangaka who openly admit that they hold side-jobs to get by while they continue creating manga for the love of it.

    As for why piracy isn't destroying Hollywood, the answer is simple: manga draws money from immediate sales of anthologies and tankoban, anime draws money from network payment (thus view ratings) and DVD sales, and Hollywood movies draw money ticket sales and DVD sales.

    When people pirate manga, the can do so immediately after a chapter is published in a weekly/bi-weekly/monthly anthology and simply archive them on a computer due to low file size. This means anthology sales drop because many people will just wait for the chapters to show up online from those who do buy the anthologies, and with archives on their computers, there's no need to buy tankoban aside from collection's sake.

    When pirating anime, they can do so immediately after broadcast and someone records it. With anime online for watching or available for download, less people are going to go out of their way to watch it on television and view ratings drop, so ad revenue for that timeslot drops, and the network the anime airs on pays less money per episode to air the series. And with the anime online to be watched whenever a person wants, there's no need to buy the DVD aside from collection's sake.

    When pirating movies, since movies first come to theaters, immediate piracy is of video-camera recordings, which less people are likely to watch. The majority of the profit generated from a movie comes from ticket sales, and the majority of movie piracy occurs after the movie is out on DVD, which must occur a minimum of 9 weeks after the film is out of theaters in order for any given film to be viable to win any sort of awards...something directors, actors, editors, effects people, etc., strive for. It is simply the movie release process which protects the Hollywood from being utterly destroyed by piracy; if they released blockbuster movies straight to DVD, they'd go under.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rongue
    Honestly I think manga companies should make site's to read thier manga's on. If you like it you buy it, and it would steal from the ones that steal. see what I did there? Anyways I can't remember his name but a few years back a guy released his book online the night before it hit the stands and he got a best seller! Posting it online yourself can help you and take down those that would steal your media works, ect...
    I've always liked this idea; an anime/manga version of iTunes or something. I believe there's several projects like this in the works in the industry, but I don't really know enough about it as little info has been released.

    And, as you said in the other part of your post, there is a lot of what I read online that I simply can't buy because it is not licensed, and some of it never will be. Several of my favorite series will most likely never be licensed because they aren't popular enough to be considered to make enough of a profit.
    Last edited by Gjallarhorn; 07-22-2010 at 04:09 PM.

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    Default Re: R.I.P. One manga

    Ok I have had a change of heart. ( No not the Yu-Gi-Oh card )
    I am fully on the side of Gjallarhorn on this one. ( Oh i am the one tht repped you, I forgot to leave my name Gjallarhorn )
    loops....


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    Default Re: R.I.P. One manga

    Quote Originally Posted by Gjallarhorn View Post
    When pirating anime, they can do so immediately after broadcast and someone records it. With anime online for watching or available for download, less people are going to go out of their way to watch it on television and view ratings drop, so ad revenue for that timeslot drops, and the network the anime airs on pays less money per episode to air the series. And with the anime online to be watched whenever a person wants, there's no need to buy the DVD aside from collection's sake.
    Given the recent pressure to try and eliminate online manga viewers, is it your opinion that they'll try and do away with online anime sites as well?

    Hypothetically speaking, if such a scenario does come to pass, I suppose I'll just get my manga and anime from an online site like www.amazon.com/jp. Granted I'll have to kick up my learning of Japanese up a notch or two, but I'll do what I have to do. That, and at least it'll be better than waiting for months on end for it to come out here in the U.S. (if it ever does come out here that is).
    Last edited by Shinn Kamiyra; 07-22-2010 at 05:01 PM.

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    Default Re: R.I.P. One manga

    While I get supporting the work, what of those anime/manga that don't ever receive a translation. Admittedly, in recent years, there has been more and more getting translated/dubbed but not every good manga/anime does. Not to mention that a good deal of people who do pirate are kids without jobs and can't buy them. Not trying to protect piracy, but I'd just like to point out that not everything gets an English release. I'm of the opinion that if it's been licensed then it should be fair game otherwise the Japanese aren't loosing anything from fan translation since they would never be translated in the first place.

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    Default Re: R.I.P. One manga

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinn Kamiyra View Post
    Given the recent pressure to try and eliminate online manga viewers, is it your opinion that they'll try and do away with online anime sites as well?
    Well, the anime industry things of pirated anime the same way the manga industry thinks of pirated manga, and with the recently law put into place, I'd say its very likely. But unlike the online scanlation community, which likes to gather and is more organized as a whole, the fansub community it very seperate and most groups don't interact with one another. But at the same time, it's more spread out, and there's no handful of sites where everything gathers like there is with the scanlation community. To take on fansubbing would be a much more difficult task, and rather than seeing a few major sites go down as with the JDCA, we'd see them give C&D letters to fansub groups directly. This isn't new, though. Fansub groups have been getting C&D letters for years, and they almost always comply. This is why Dattebayo stopped doing Naruto, for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by GameGeeks
    While I get supporting the work, what of those anime/manga that don't ever receive a translation. Admittedly, in recent years, there has been more and more getting translated/dubbed but not every good manga/anime does. Not to mention that a good deal of people who do pirate are kids without jobs and can't buy them. Not trying to protect piracy, but I'd just like to point out that not everything gets an English release. I'm of the opinion that if it's been licensed then it should be fair game otherwise the Japanese aren't loosing anything from fan translation since they would never be translated in the first place.

    This is very true, and I will personally continue to read online series that have no chance of ever being licensed. But the majority of the piracy centers around series that are licensed, when more people become away for them. Obvious examples are Naruto and Bleach, but then there are series like Kekkaishi, Blood+, or Samurai Champloo which were subbed online when their were airing in Japan, but where never very popular in the fansub community...but when they got licensed and aired in the US, the piracy of them exploded almost immediately.
    Last edited by Gjallarhorn; 07-22-2010 at 05:07 PM.

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    Default Re: R.I.P. One manga

    What I'd like to see is companies working with fan subbers. Doing things like including fan subs in DVDs and what not. It'd make the a bit of money and translate anime/manga that would otherwise not receive it.

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    Default Re: R.I.P. One manga

    Quote Originally Posted by GameGeeks View Post
    What I'd like to see is companies working with fan subbers. Doing things like including fan subs in DVDs and what not. It'd make the a bit of money and translate anime/manga that would otherwise not receive it.
    There are already subs on the DVDs. Any dubbed DVD you buy has both the English and Japanese audio tracks, as well as subtitles you can turn on and off. The official subtitles are usually more accurate than fan translations as well...you never really know the ability of a fan translator to...well...translate.

    "The color fades along the intervals I follow."

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    Default Re: R.I.P. One manga

    Yes, piracy is indeed wrong. That is a fact, but still its cincerely not something you, or anyone in this forum should be against. Everybody has something to do with piracy, doesn't matter if its about downloading illegal movies or watching anime or reading manga illegally.

    So what you are saying is that Hollywood doesn't really care about piracy? Open your eyes. There is alot of debates going around just for that particular genre. It is a huge problem for hollywood as it is for the manga/anime industries. Just because the manga industries has a lower profit than hollywood really doesn't mean that hollywood suffers less than the manga industries.

    You are clearly dividing piracy into two divisions, they are all the same. But the fact is, as i and you said before; Piracy is illegal and its making thing goes worse for the real companies. Still it was hard for me to believe your numbers because you haven't told us where you got it from, is it just basic knowledge?
    But if it is true, where does all the money go? I mean, the naruto buisness is cooperating with cartoon network and lots of other tv companies. Not only naruto, not to mention one piece, dragonball, bleach, sailormoon, pokemon etc etc.. They all have to get a big amount of money from somewhere? This is regarding the anime industries.

    I don't really now what a mangaka is, but i assume you only refer to the manga industries. I thought they were the same as the anime industries actually, but what do i know :P

    Anyway. There has been alot of piracy websites all over the internet, and there are alot of piracy websites that has provided fame to the manga/anime genre. And a couple of these sites has been bought up by the manga/anime industries, the reason why they have been bought is because they already have a large amount of readers/watchers of the manga and anime genre.
    And now these websites require payment, that means that people have to pay to watch or read. And because of the huge amount of spectators and readers the manga/anime industries make more profit than before. All thanks to the piracy, without the piracy the websites wouldn't have that great amount of readers/watchers.

    And this leads to more fame than before, so coming to think of it, this website has a majority of piracy-manga-anime fans than licensed fans (those who read or watch legally)
    So if u think a little bit more about it.. if it weren't for piracy we wouldn't have this debate


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    Default Re: R.I.P. One manga

    True, but I was talking about on unlicensed anime. They could just release a limited number of them in the states or by order and make a little bit of money that way. And there are some really good translators but most are average at best. Manga would be a bit harder to do but it is still an option.

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    Default Re: R.I.P. One manga

    I'm not really willing to spend $8 on Manga,because I'm afraid I'll get screwed. I can get a $8 book from Booksamillion that will last me longer than a average Manga chapter.

    If only there was comic libraries.
    Last edited by The Butcher; 07-22-2010 at 06:01 PM.

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    Default Re: R.I.P. One manga

    Quote Originally Posted by caelesti View Post
    Yes, piracy is indeed wrong. That is a fact, but still its cincerely not something you, or anyone in this forum should be against. Everybody has something to do with piracy, doesn't matter if its about downloading illegal movies or watching anime or reading manga illegally
    "Piracy is indeed wrong" -> "its cincerely no some you, or anyone else on this forum should be against".

    Hello, willfully ignorant hypocrisy.

    I pirate, and I buy when I pirate when its available to me. I try to balance myself around 0, and I try my best to support the industries I like, anime and manga especially.

    So what you are saying is that Hollywood doesn't really care about piracy? Open your eyes.
    I never said that. I said its simply less of a threat to them. It still exists, it still hurts, them, and Hollywood more than anyone else (except maybe music companies) hate piracy. They by a wide margin the group which takes the most action against piracy. While Hollywood makes much more money than the anime and manga industry, it loses less of a percentage of its profits as a result of piracy; these sorts of things are relative to the respective industry and their bottom-lines. As for the details of this, see the relevant paragraphs in my longer post.

    You are clearly dividing piracy into two divisions, they are all the same. But the fact is, as i and you said before; Piracy is illegal and its making thing goes worse for the real companies. Still it was hard for me to believe your numbers because you haven't told us where you got it from, is it just basic knowledge?
    I am not dividing piracy into two divisions, I am regarding that the method of piracy is different depending on which form of media we are disussing.

    As from where:
    Oricon
    Shueisha
    Kodansha
    Sankaku Complex
    Kotaku
    Japanator
    The New York Times
    Anime News Network

    But if it is true, where does all the money go? I mean, the naruto buisness is cooperating with cartoon network and lots of other tv companies. Not only naruto, not to mention one piece, dragonball, bleach, sailormoon, pokemon etc etc.. They all have to get a big amount of money from somewhere? This is regarding the anime industries.
    I have no idea what you're trying to say here...which money flow are we talking about here. They obviously still make tons of money because there are people who do watch it on tv, who buy the anthologies, who buy the tankoban, who buy the DVDs, who buy the merchandise, etc. But they would be taking in more money if it weren't for piracy. How much more? That we can't know for sure. You're also looking at an extreme end of the industry. The series you mentioned are all the very, very top end of all the series that have ever been made in terms of profit. 99% (made up number, I'm just trying to get across the point) of series do not even come close to making as much many as any of those series.

    I don't really now what a mangaka is, but i assume you only refer to the manga industries. I thought they were the same as the anime industries actually, but what do i know :P
    A mangaka (or manga-ka) is a manga author or illustrator; a person who creates manga.

    And while the anime and manga industries do work together a lot, they are very separate.

    [quote]Anyway. There has been alot of piracy websites all over the internet, and there are alot of piracy websites that has provided fame to the manga/anime genre. And a couple of these sites has been bought up by the manga/anime industries, the reason why they have been bought is because they already have a large amount of readers/watchers of the manga and anime genre.[/quote[

    The industries have never purchased any piracy sites; they want to fight piracy, not join with it. If a site gets popular, they are more likely to send a C&D letter and get it shut down.

    And now these websites require payment, that means that people have to pay to watch or read. And because of the huge amount of spectators and readers the manga/anime industries make more profit than before. All thanks to the piracy, without the piracy the websites wouldn't have that great amount of readers/watchers.
    If you or anyone else is paying for fansubbed anime or scanlated manga, you're being scammed. No group does it for a profit. There are websites which offer the pirated anime and manga if you pay a membership fee, but they are simply taking the freely distributed anime/manga from fansubbers/scanlators and adding it to their own sites.

    The sites that do this are not giving money to the anime or manga industries, they're simply taking things that are being distributed for free, and charging foolish people money for them to make a profit for themselves. This would be like paying for a pirated movie; the money isn't going to the studio that made it, just into the pocket of the person who you got the movie from.

    As I said before, piracy has made anime more popular, yes. But the people are pirating anime not buying it. Thus even though it is more popular it is not making more money. The two are not mutually inclusive.

    So if u think a little bit more about it.. if it weren't for piracy we wouldn't have this debate
    That's like saying if Hurricane Katrina didn't destroy New Orleans we wouldn't have donated money to rebuild it...



    Quote Originally Posted by TheButcher
    I'm not really willing to spend $8 on Manga
    So you like anime and manga, but you're not willing to spend money on it? In that case, you either must not like it very much, or simply feel entitled to free entertainment.
    Last edited by Gjallarhorn; 07-22-2010 at 06:04 PM.

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    Default Re: R.I.P. One manga

    I'm kind of poor,and I got more bigger entertainments that are worth my money.

    I can see piracy is wrong,but if it was cheaper I'd probably consider buying it.

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    Default Re: R.I.P. One manga

    Quote Originally Posted by caelesti View Post
    Yes, piracy is indeed wrong. That is a fact, but still its cincerely not something you, or anyone in this forum should be against. Everybody has something to do with piracy, doesn't matter if its about downloading illegal movies or watching anime or reading manga illegally.
    Why shouldn't anybody on this forum be against piracy? I don't watch pirated anime; I have no need to and I don't wish to. I import DVDs from Japan (I make perfectly sure that they are from Japan), I import manga, I have access to a couple of Japanese channels, so I have no need to pirate anime and therefore not at all involved in anime piracy. How do you figure that everybody, including me, is?

    Quote Originally Posted by caelesti View Post
    It is a huge problem for hollywood as it is for the manga/anime industries. Just because the manga industries has a lower profit than hollywood really doesn't mean that hollywood suffers less than the manga industries.
    No one is saying that Hollywood doesn't have a problem with piracy, because they certainly do. However, while piracy does impact them, it doesn't impact them nearly as much as the anime companies because they are structured in different ways. In Hollywood, they have specific safeguards against it, such as releasing movies certain ways, when to release DVDs, and the like (up until the DVDs actually come out; then piracy explodes). In Japan, when it comes to anime and manga, as Gjallarhorn said, once someone records something on television or scans a manga, it all goes downhill from there.

    Quote Originally Posted by caelesti View Post
    But if it is true, where does all the money go? I mean, the naruto buisness is cooperating with cartoon network and lots of other tv companies. Not only naruto, not to mention one piece, dragonball, bleach, sailormoon, pokemon etc etc.. They all have to get a big amount of money from somewhere? This is regarding the anime industries.
    Here's an example for you. A year ago, mangaka Sato Shuuhou ("Say Hello to Black Jack") revealed on his website the amount of money that he is paid. For "Umizaru" it was:

    Payment: 10,000 yen per page x 80 pages a month = 800,000 yen a month
    Personnel expenses for three assistants: 570,000 yen a month
    Material expenses for manga drawings: 100,000 yen a month

    As you can see, he was making some decent money (800,000 yen is about $9000) every month. However, about 75% percent of that money went to his assistants (and he only had three; Hiromu Arakawa has at least four) and materials for the manga. At the end of everything, he was only making 130,000 yen or $1488.50 a month, which amounts to 1,560,000 yen or $17,862 a year. This is pretty typical of most mangaka (not everyone can be an Akira Toriyama or Rumiko Takahashi). With that money, yes, he would have been better working at a fast food restaurant.

    Whenever an anime or manga is created, money is spent on the materials, the voice actors, the artists, the advertisements, etc. Oversees, money is spent on licensing (which is usually the most expensive thing spent on an anime; simply acquiring the rights to it), translation, editing, production, voice actors, distribution and on all of the people who get these things together. In order make that money back, people need to spend money on their products. With nobody buying anything, this leads to some serious issues, such as the price of the finished product going up. While the price of an anime DVD is the reason why some people watch anime illegally, watching anime illegally causes the price of anime DVDs to go up in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by caelesti View Post
    I don't really now what a mangaka is, but i assume you only refer to the manga industries. I thought they were the same as the anime industries actually, but what do i know :P
    Mangaka is the Japanese word for a comic artist. Outside of Japan, it specifically refers to the author of an anime (eg Osamu Tezuka is a mangaka). And yes, there are some companies that handle not just the manga, but the anime as well (these are usually media companies, not ones that just specialize in manga).

    Quote Originally Posted by caelesti View Post
    And now these websites require payment, that means that people have to pay to watch or read. And because of the huge amount of spectators and readers the manga/anime industries make more profit than before. All thanks to the piracy, without the piracy the websites wouldn't have that great amount of readers/watchers.
    This only applies to websites who were actually bought, those are a very, very, VERY select few. The popularity of an anime or manga means absolutely nothing so long as nobody is buying.

    The problem is that as the piracy increased, profits have gone DOWN, not up. The popularity of anime and manga may have gone up, but apparently, that hasn't influenced people to actually go out and BUY the stuff (hell, one person already admitted that they only purchase about 1% of what they read), which is how anime companies make money. They are companies; they want to make money. The popularity of an anime or manga means SQUAT if people are not paying for it. It would be nice if those people who were watching/reading the anime and manga online were supporting those companies financially by buying the stuff that they read and watch but that is not happening, despite all the popularity (companies don't want you reading; they want you BUYING). In the last 3 years alone, we lost Central Park Media and Geneon. A.D Vision has sold off all of their assets. Remember Newtype magazine? That's gone. Remember the Anime Network, the 24/7 anime channel? That has been sold off.

    Yeah, I can see the support; piracy is definitely helping.

    Quote Originally Posted by caelesti View Post
    And this leads to more fame than before, so coming to think of it, this website has a majority of piracy-manga-anime fans than licensed fans (those who read or watch legally)
    Again, I would like to you elaborate on this. Simply because anime is popular does not mean that most of the people on this site are obtaining it illegally. While there is no doubt in my mind that there some people are, this very thread is proof of that, that does not indicate that the majority of people here watch pirated anime.

    Quote Originally Posted by caelesti View Post
    So if u think a little bit more about it.. if it weren't for piracy we wouldn't have this debate
    Umm...duh.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Butcher View Post
    I'm not really willing to spend $8 on Manga,because I'm afraid I'll get screwed. I can get a $8 book from Booksamillion that will last me longer than a average Manga chapter.

    If only there was comic libraries.
    Yeah, getting screwed is what happens in life. If it doesn't happen with manga, it is going to happen some other way. If you see a manga that you are interested in, read more about it. Read the cover, look up the author, read reviews on the manga. Hell, while you are standing in the book store, read a few pages to see if you are interested. Isn't this the exact same process that you would use in order to buy a book? So, why can't you do the same thing for manga?

    There is usually manga at libraries anyway (because of the popularity of some manga; many of the libraries, including the one at my old high school had manga), so you should check out your local library. If they don't have a LICENSED title that you want, request it. The only reason why there aren't (that many) full-blown comic libraries is because it is really a niche market, with manga being a separate niche altogether.
    Last edited by wolfgirl90; 07-22-2010 at 09:26 PM.
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    Default Re: R.I.P. One manga

    Quote Originally Posted by caelesti View Post
    Cartoon Network is ruining Naruto as we speak.
    Cartoon Network doesn't ruin anything. It's distrubutors like funimation and 4kids that hire the voice actors, cut content, and so on.
    Also, Naruto isn't on Cartoon Network anymore, and it hasn't been for quite a while.. It's on Disney X D now, and I haven't seen it on there in about 3 months either.

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