Why does the school make kids read crappy books?

[Furore]

The only reason other people are agreeing with you and complaining is because they are all ungrateful teenagers like you, and they can't see the value in the reading. Take from someone whose older and has gone through all that: you will get something out of it.

I work full time and still haven't found any decent use for Shakespeare.
I just hate having my time wasted when if not in a forced educational setting I could pursue things that are actually beneficial to me and wouldn't be surprised if any of these bright young sparks feel the same way.

[Capernicus]

I just hate having my time wasted when if not in a forced educational setting I could pursue things that are actually beneficial to me and wouldn't be surprised if any of these bright young sparks feel the same way.

That might be true for you, but I highly doubt the same is true for others.

[brolyx74]

That might be true for you, but I highly doubt the same is true for others.

This is kinda true for me too. After moving and having to go to a new school for sophmore year, they made me take a few classes I had already taken because they were required and I didn't take them there. And I didn't receive credits for a few other classes because I took them in 8th grade. Even though they were high school level classes that I got credit for at my old school, they wouldn't give me the credit. I tried to fight this, because there are so many other classes I could have taken instead of these crappy ones again, like Intro to physical science and health. I wanted to take some more business classes. Also, why wold reading these bad books benefit us in real life if we don't plan on becoming writers. Most people don't become writers, so you other point in your previous point is moot. Also, for me anyway, English has always been my worst subject, and is currently the only bad grade I've ever gotten. I got a B in it, though it should have been a B+. The teachers strange grading caused the grade to fall short by about a point. If it wasn't for that class, I'd have a perfect GPA. The only reading I like is manga and light novels. Maybe if we got to read more stuff like this, not manga, but the light novels, then people wouldn't hate english so much. The things they have us read are usually God awful The only books I ever tolerated, and the last one in this example I liked, were The Great Gatsby, To Kill A Mockingbird, and 1984.

[Kaitou+]

It's not the books that are stupid, it's the student who are stupid and don't understand the content of the book.
EDIT: Bah, on second though---Some books I have to read were really, really ridiculous.

@Yoko: Books enhances your vocabulary, which makes you an eloquent individual. Books also enhances your reading comprehension, and the more books you read, if they are advance, the more it develops.

You have to read it anyways, might as well do it, right? It will help you in the end in the near future.

[Princely Dreaming Doll]

I only ever hated the books in school because they were not challenging or stimulating in an intellectual way. I found myself always and constantly bored by them. It was because I was the student in the middle not genius, but above average. I always got good scores on my test, always did well on my homework, and always did well on my reading comprehension books.
I discovered Edgar Allan Poe in 3rd grade and was reading Goosebumps, Harry Potter, and the "young adult" readers from 1st grade. So, by the time I hit middle school I was at a high school reading level. And when I got to high school I was at a college level reading level.
In elementary I was at a middle school reading level. The only reason I never liked the books because it didn't challenge me.

[Capernicus]

This is kinda true for me too. After moving and having to go to a new school for sophmore year, they made me take a few classes I had already taken because they were required and I didn't take them there. And I didn't receive credits for a few other classes because I took them in 8th grade. Even though they were high school level classes that I got credit for at my old school, they wouldn't give me the credit. I tried to fight this, because there are so many other classes I could have taken instead of these crappy ones again, like Intro to physical science and health. I wanted to take some more business classes.

Not to interrupt you while you tell me your life story, but... what does this have to do with required reading in schools?

Also, why wold reading these bad books benefit us in real life if we don't plan on becoming writers. Most people don't become writers, so you other point in your previous point is moot.

No, it's not. Literacy is a life skill that transfers over across all subjects. You know, you have to read science books, write articles for science journals, etc etc.

Also, for me anyway, English has always been my worst subject, and is currently the only bad grade I've ever gotten. I got a B in it, though it should have been a B+. The teachers strange grading caused the grade to fall short by about a point. If it wasn't for that class, I'd have a perfect GPA.

Oh, I see I didn't interrupt you telling your life story.

The only reading I like is manga and light novels. Maybe if we got to read more stuff like this, not manga, but the light novels, then people wouldn't hate english so much.

... reading manga does NOT count. 90% of them are pictures. Here, let me fix it for you

The only pretty shiny pictures I like is manga

Edit: Hey Pandemic Doll/Rem Nightfall, I was at a college reading level as a high school freshman too, you don't see me bragging about reading Harry Potter in first grade.

[brolyx74]

I know manga doesn't count, that's why I specified saying not manga. The rest of my rant is pertinet to the discussion because it shows that school makes us do things that don't matter that end up taking away from the intellectual experience of school. Also, reading a text book or article is very different from reading a novel. Also, I am quite good at writing essays and articles, despite not being very well read. That goes to show that reading is not necessary to become a good writer. Oh and to get back to the manga; if it wasn't for manga, I still wouldn't be reading anything. Manga renewed my faith in actually reading for pleasure, which had previously been destroyed by the books forced upon me by the school system.

[Kaitou+]

98.1% of the content that school makes you learn does and will matter later on in your life, it's very stupid on your behalf to say so.

And not their not, or at least how you make it seem to be. All pieces of literature aren't that different, they all provide information of any shape or kind.

Yoko, really, stop being a brat.

[Capernicus]

Nah nah, let him be a brat. This is entertaining to see. He's losing out and has no one to blame but himself. I shall enjoy ordering a Big Mac from him someday.

[Princely Dreaming Doll]

Edit: Hey Pandemic Doll/Rem Nightfall, I was at a college reading level as a high school freshman too, you don't see me bragging about reading Harry Potter in first grade.

I was clearly trying to state my experience, not to brag.

[Kaitou+]

Nah nah, let him be a brat. This is entertaining to see. He's losing out and has no one to blame but himself. I shall enjoy ordering a Big Mac from him someday.

You just made my day.

[Capernicus]

I was clearly trying to state my experience, not to brag.

Clearly, by going on and on about it for nearly a paragraph you are bragging. By the way, are you now acknowledging that you are Pandemic Doll/Rem Nightfall?

[Princely Dreaming Doll]

Clearly, by going on and on about it for nearly a paragraph you are bragging. By the way, are you now acknowledging that you are Pandemic Doll/Rem Nightfall?

I hadn't realized that factor. Next time I will keep it short. I am very sorry, what I had intended was not to brag. I promise to fix that for next time, thank you for the advice. I'll use it next time.

This is my account. I have had since it 2006. I was Fallen Baby Doll, changed my name to Pandemic Doll. And now I have a name for 2010...Princely Dreaming Doll. Need a name for the years. I will be honest I have done some terrible things in my life. And I regret every single one of them, now that my mind has been cleared. I am sorry for all that I have done and all that I have ruined. But I'll do my best. I want to be a better person.

[Kaitou+]

Bah, you don't need to be that polite about it..."Very, very, very sorry"? Seriously? You don't have to put that much emphasis on your apology.

[Princely Dreaming Doll]

Bah, you don't need to be that polite about it..."Very, very, very sorry"? Seriously? You don't have to put that much emphasis on your apology.

I just feel I owe certain people an apology. I owe them an apology on a large scale. I have to repent.

[BoldMushroom]

Also, why wold reading these bad books benefit us in real life if we don't plan on becoming writers.

Students take a variety of subjects in high school to help them figure out what they want to do once they're done with school. If you know, good for you; not everyone does. I didn't. Besides, everyone needs a well-rounded education - everyone needs to know how to read and write (comprehensively and critically - not just knowing the words); everyone needs to know how to do basic math (and not just + - × ÷); everyone needs an understanding of how our government works, and how the nation has gotten the way it is; and if you think you don't need an understanding of the sciences, maybe you should look up why mixing ammonia and bleach is a bad thing.

I'm currently in college to become an English teacher. I'm also an avid writer - and while I don't refer back to my copies of Lord of the Flies or Of Mice and Men for symbolism (in fact, those are two of the books I enjoyed reading the least for English classes), they still helped me understand the concepts of symbolism, allegory, metaphor, and thematic illustration. Like someone else mentioned earlier - what makes a work engaging is the passion the teacher or professor has for the work, and the effort they put in bringing that work to life, highlighting its themes and convincingly tie them to our own lives. Everyone can learn something from a book like Animal Farm, or 1984, or Night, or Inherit the Wind, or The Crucible (boring as I thought that was), or Lord of the Flies.

They might not be the most interesting books to read (though personally, I disagree regarding the first four), but even a boring book can impart some valuable information - just look at any textbook!

[brolyx74]

I'm a brat? Well, let's see. I do the work to the best of my ability even when I hate it. Oh, and I see what you did there. You think I'm gonna be working at McDonalds when I grow up. Funny funny. Apparently in your mind a near flawless GPA and, what I forgot to mention before from my life story, was that I already have college experience and by the end of Senior year, I will have accumulated 8 college credits, effectivelfy shortening my college career by a full semester, isn't good enough to get into college and get a real job. Apparently, in your mind, because I don't particularly enjoy the bulk of the reading they make us do in school, that makes me a brat. Doing the work anyway has nothing to do with it. One question, wouldn't a real brat not do the work at all because they don't like it? I never thought complaining makes someone a brat. If it did, then everyone could be considered a brat.

[Furore]

The Big Mac thing, LOL.
I just finished high school before I started working and can now (and when I first started for that matter) make $2500+ a week fairly easily, some of the Uni educated kids I know can't get a job as practical experience often beats bits of paper in the eyes of some employers.
There are multiple ways to get ahead, and to get condescending just because someone else decided to make it differently is the mark of an egotist.

[Capernicus]

An egotist eh? It is not his dislike for the books that is the real problem, it is his inability to see how they can benefit him and his refusal to admit that they must have some value that leaves me little hope that he will do well. Just because he has college credits now doesn't mean he will do well either, like you said bits of paper mean little. It is about attitude. You know that old adage that life is 10% what happens to you and 90% attitude.

I almost had enough credits to get sophomore standing when I entered college, and I knew friends with similar that did not do well. Hell, I even know someone who double majored and graduated with honors fail to find a job. They were good at doing school an didn't have the right attitude. His is very poor.

I am well aware that there are several ways to be successful in life, and his attitude doesn't leave me much hope that he will find one.

By the way, things are slowly changing so that bits of paper matter more and more, and you need to get with it. People who have jobs are finding that, under new legislation and industry conventions, they need to go back to school to get certain degrees and certificates to keep their jobs. I'm telling you this so that you don't get caught in the same trap.

[brolyx74]

Just to clarify for you Cappers, I do find the meaning in some of the books we read, but my real problem is books from so long ago that they hold little relevence in today's society. The main explainations I've gotten from people about why we read these books is because they are classics. Some books I do not enjoy, but I understand the message of it.I just wish we could read books with the same messages, only that convey it in a less boring or tedious manner.

[Capernicus]

Just to clarify for you Cappers, I do find the meaning in some of the books we read, but my real problem is books from so long ago that they hold little relevence in today's society. The main explainations I've gotten from people about why we read these books is because they are classics. Some books I do not enjoy, but I understand the message of it.I just wish we could read books with the same messages, only that convey it in a less boring or tedious manner.

Then you should have added that to your first post rather than acting like an immature brat.

[brolyx74]

My apologies. I suppose I should have.

[QueerFeminist16]

I know manga doesn't count, that's why I specified saying not manga. The rest of my rant is pertinet to the discussion because it shows that school makes us do things that don't matter that end up taking away from the intellectual experience of school. Also, reading a text book or article is very different from reading a novel. Also, I am quite good at writing essays and articles, despite not being very well read. That goes to show that reading is not necessary to become a good writer. Oh and to get back to the manga; if it wasn't for manga, I still wouldn't be reading anything. Manga renewed my faith in actually reading for pleasure, which had previously been destroyed by the books forced upon me by the school system.

I found nothing ignorant or bratty about YokoKuwabara's comments. Each person has different ways of approaching their learning, and not every person will learn at the same pace; while I do agree there is value to be had from all niches of education, that does not necessarily mean that those who "got ahead" should shove it down everyone else's throats. I'm more than a little disconcerted by the maliciousness of the responses his posts engendered...

I feel where you're coming from; reading textbooks and articles are a different sort of exercise, compared to reading novels, manga and the like - especially since the way it's gone about in many schools, students end up looking upon anything "academic" with less-than-generous sentiment. After the debacle that was (ugh) junior high school, it took me well over a year before I could bring myself to love reading again.

I only ever hated the books in school because they were not challenging or stimulating in an intellectual way. I found myself always and constantly bored by them. It was because I was the student in the middle not genius, but above average. I always got good scores on my test, always did well on my homework, and always did well on my reading comprehension books.
I discovered Edgar Allan Poe in 3rd grade and was reading Goosebumps, Harry Potter, and the "young adult" readers from 1st grade. So, by the time I hit middle school I was at a high school reading level. And when I got to high school I was at a college level reading level.
In elementary I was at a middle school reading level. The only reason I never liked the books because it didn't challenge me.

Princely's statements sounded fair to me; he wasn't explicitly saying, "HAHA, I'M BETTER THAN YOU BY DEFAULT, YOU SUCK LOL" - nor does it seem, to me, that it could be easily implied. I see nothing wrong with detailing our experiences in such a manner; we ought to be proud of what we've done, not constantly ducking for cover from misconceived slights.

[Capernicus]

I found nothing ignorant or bratty about YokoKuwabara's comments. Each person has different ways of approaching their learning, and not every person will learn at the same pace; while I do agree there is value to be had from all niches of education, that does not necessarily mean that those who "got ahead" should shove it down everyone else's throats. I'm more than a little disconcerted by the maliciousness of the responses his posts engendered...

I feel where you're coming from; reading textbooks and articles are a different sort of exercise, compared to reading novels, manga and the like - especially since the way it's gone about in many schools, students end up looking upon anything "academic" with less-than-generous sentiment. After the debacle that was (ugh) junior high school, it took me well over a year before I could bring myself to love reading again.



Princely's statements sounded fair to me; he wasn't explicitly saying, "HAHA, I'M BETTER THAN YOU BY DEFAULT, YOU SUCK LOL" - nor does it seem, to me, that it could be easily implied. I see nothing wrong with detailing our experiences in such a manner; we ought to be proud of what we've done, not constantly ducking for cover from misconceived slights.

Spoken like someone with only six posts. You know nothing of Doll's infamy, nor Yoko's obvious trolling.

[QueerFeminist16]

Spoken like someone with only six posts. You know nothing of Doll's infamy, nor Yoko's obvious trolling.

By the venom with which they get responses, I'll assume this is something more personal than just trolling. Anywho, I've said my peace; I'll stay out of it.