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Thread: Philosophical headache thread: Is your mirror image alive?

  1. #76
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    Default Re: Philosophical headache thread: Is your mirror image alive?

    No.

  2. #77
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    Default Re: Philosophical headache thread: Is your mirror image alive?

    from a purely physical point of view, no. it's just light particles (or waves, because is light is both a particle and a wave)while you're real atoms. However from a more philosophical point of view, we can't even know for sure on which side of the mirror we are. Sure, your image disappears from the mirror as you go away, but it could be that it is the real you who just went away while you, the mirror image just keeps on living in an alternate mirror dimension that is visible to other realities trough the mirror. That's the funny point about philosophy, because we observe the world with our own brains we can't be sure how anything else feels and whether anything apart from our own thoughts even exists.
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  3. #78
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    Default Re: Philosophical headache thread: Is your mirror image alive?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post
    As I was telling Digital Dragon, its rather pointless to attempt to have a discussion about Wicca with people who are already steadfast in their ways as far as metaphysics is concerned; unless someone is willing to open their mind, conversation goes nowhere, which is exactly what is going on here (and why I didn't want to elaborate much further on this with you). However, I believe that we are a bit off topic here. Aren't we supposed to be talking about something else? Something involving a mirror?
    The problem I have with explaining metaphysics to people is that so much of that which I know is based off of subjective evidence, from psychic and paranormal experiences. That being the case, from a paranormal perspective, if the mirror image moved independently of the refracted light, moving on its own, it could be said to either be alive or a force was distorting the light which was alive though unseen. Otherwise there is no evidence that mirrors lead to parallel planes or quantum states of reality.
    Having a psychic experience seems to have something to do with chemicals in the brain which feed into the temporal lobes, and vibration of nerves in the head. Since most people will not have an abundance of these chemicals, it makes such things rare. From what I understand, it is tapping into the ability to see subtle energies in the ultraviolet spectrum, not normally seen within the visual range. Hence you see something that "isn't there." There is no real good way of getting everyone to have a shared psychic experience enough to make it objective enough for scientific criteria.
    Last edited by Digital Dragon; 07-24-2010 at 07:17 PM.
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  4. #79
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    Lightbulb Re: Philosophical headache thread: Is your mirror image alive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Desulishor View Post
    from a purely physical point of view, no. it's just light particles (or waves, because is light is both a particle and a wave)while you're real atoms. However from a more philosophical point of view, we can't even know for sure on which side of the mirror we are. Sure, your image disappears from the mirror as you go away, but it could be that it is the real you who just went away while you, the mirror image just keeps on living in an alternate mirror dimension that is visible to other realities trough the mirror. That's the funny point about philosophy, because we observe the world with our own brains we can't be sure how anything else feels and whether anything apart from our own thoughts even exists.
    This is incorrect. We do not observe the world with our brain.

    Our senses pick up information to the best of it's ability and then that information get's converted into something that our mind can understand. There is technically a sort of "meta-barrier" between what we perceive and what actually exists.

    To use an analogy, think of a computer. In order for information to be processed in a computer's CPU form an outside source, the information must be encoded, transferred, and then un-encoded so that it can be read again. It is a much similar process in the brain.

    When you "look" at something, you're not seeing what's actually there. It's only what the information your eyes pick up and then your brain tries to make sense of the information.
    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Dragon View Post
    The problem I have with explaining metaphysics to people is that so much of that which I know is based off of subjective evidence, from psychic and paranormal experiences.
    Hence you see something that "isn't there." There is no real good way of getting everyone to have a shared psychic experience enough to make it objective enough for scientific criteria.
    Actually, with fMRIwiki and EEGwiki technology being available to measure brain wave activity and neurochemical distribution, I am not entirely sure as to what excatly is not enough to "make it objective enough for scientific criteria".

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    Default Re: Philosophical headache thread: Is your mirror image alive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ericgamer1 View Post
    Actually, with fMRIwiki and EEGwiki technology being available to measure brain wave activity and neurochemical distribution, I am not entirely sure as to what excatly is not enough to "make it objective enough for scientific criteria".
    i have had a psychiatrist do bio-feedback on me to see the difference in brainwaves when I went into trance. There are some strides being made to substantiate such things. But one person will not react to chemicals exactly the same way as another, so while it may be eventually possible to prove, it will be a very long and complicated process.
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  6. #81
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    Default Re: Philosophical headache thread: Is your mirror image alive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Dragon View Post
    The problem I have with explaining metaphysics to people is that so much of that which I know is based off of subjective evidence, from psychic and paranormal experiences.
    Well, like I said, observing something from a strictly objective point of view is rather impossible in the realm of science; your personal views and opinions, be they scientific or otherwise, are going to influence your perception of what is going on. Of course, the mere fact that something is subjective shouldn't hamper your ability to explain what it is; it certainly didn't stop me from explaining what life forces were as subjective as that subject is.

    And its not the difficulty of explanation that I was talking about, but rather the fact that when it comes to metaphysics, one should be open to new ideas (even ideas that run counter to their own) if they are going to have a discussion about it. If they aren't, why bother wasting your time (this is the "To Keep Silent" tenet on the Witches' Pyramid; its not that I am unable to express my thoughts about this but rather that I know what people think and I am not about to shove my religion down their throats)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Dragon View Post
    Having a psychic experience seems to have something to do with chemicals in the brain which feed into the temporal lobes, and vibration of nerves in the head. Since most people will not have an abundance of these chemicals, it makes such things rare. From what I understand, it is tapping into the ability to see subtle energies in the ultraviolet spectrum, not normally seen within the visual range. Hence you see something that "isn't there." There is no real good way of getting everyone to have a shared psychic experience enough to make it objective enough for scientific criteria.
    Umm...no offense, but I am going to have to question a few things here (and this is my honest opinion; not saying you are wholly wrong). First off, while neuroscience is certainly not my strong point, chemicals being responsible for psychic experiences (the definition of such varying depending on who you ask) would only be applicable for people who were (supposedly) born with their abilities. This doesn't help to explain how psychic abilities often gain strength in some people, such as those who train themselves or have a teacher (and with Wicca only gaining in practitioners, it would be too much of a coincidence that even some of these people would possess some chemical or react to it the same way to give them "psychic abilities").

    Second, when it comes to ultraviolet light, let's make it understood that seeing it is something that is simply not possible with human eyes. The human visual range is set by the limitations of our eyes, not perception (now, perception we can do something about). We can't see ultraviolet light (or anything within it) not because of differences in perception, but because our eyes are simply unable to pick it up (the wavelength is way too small).

    And once again, objectivity goes BOTH ways: on the person doing the research and on the person the research is being presented to. And on BOTH sides, complete and total objectivity is impossible. Like I said, personal views on the matter at hand are still going to influence how you perceive the information. A scientist could find a flying pig and explain all the details as to how the wings of the pig work, how the pig reproduces and present all of the data on its DNA and STILL not be believed by most of the scientific community simply because they don't believe pigs can fly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Dragon View Post
    i have had a psychiatrist do bio-feedback on me to see the difference in brainwaves when I went into trance. There are some strides being made to substantiate such things.
    What things? Using an EEG to measure brain waves while one is in a trance is not exactly new. Its been done many times before, so scientists already have a firm understanding when it comes to that. A trance (when properly done) can put one in a sleep-like state. This much is understood. What is being debated on a metaphysical level is what that trance is for (or is capable of), such as astral travel.

    Then again, this does make me wonder why you are going to such lengths to prove such subjective things.
    Last edited by wolfgirl90; 07-25-2010 at 02:42 PM.
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  7. #82
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    Default Re: Philosophical headache thread: Is your mirror image alive?

    @wolfgirl90:I'm not really going to any lengths, per se, just merely trying to explain how it might possibly work according to theories I have heard. I am not a scientist, merely had a lot of experiences most people have not which I have tried to find explainations for. The Witch's Pyramid keeps me silent about most things which I certainly would not discuss in a forum such as this. If you care to PM me, I might share some things with you, but I am by no means going to do so with everyone here.
    Last edited by Digital Dragon; 07-25-2010 at 03:16 PM.
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  8. #83
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    Default Re: Philosophical headache thread: Is your mirror image alive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Dragon View Post
    If you care to PM me, I might share some things with you, but I am by no means going to do so with everyone here.
    I might just take you up on that.

    Now, what were we talking about? Oh yeah, between the Count and Edward Cullen, who would win in a fight.

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    Well, that answers that question.
    Last edited by wolfgirl90; 07-25-2010 at 08:30 PM.
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    Default Re: Philosophical headache thread: Is your mirror image alive?

    The Count. He is much more masculine then that Edward Cullen guy and has the elite powers of Mathematics on his side.
    Also vampires supposedly don't have reflections in some of the stories...
    I guess light don't react to them or something...
    But then how would we see them? O_o
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    Default Re: Philosophical headache thread: Is your mirror image alive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ericgamer1 View Post
    This is incorrect. We do not observe the world with our brain.

    Our senses pick up information to the best of it's ability and then that information get's converted into something that our mind can understand. There is technically a sort of "meta-barrier" between what we perceive and what actually exists.

    To use an analogy, think of a computer. In order for information to be processed in a computer's CPU form an outside source, the information must be encoded, transferred, and then un-encoded so that it can be read again. It is a much similar process in the brain.

    When you "look" at something, you're not seeing what's actually there. It's only what the information your eyes pick up and then your brain tries to make sense of the information.



    Actually, with fMRIwiki and EEGwiki technology being available to measure brain wave activity and neurochemical distribution, I am not entirely sure as to what excatly is not enough to "make it objective enough for scientific criteria".
    I think you're just nitpicking with science here. Brains weren't the right word here, but it wasnt about the way information is fed into us anyway. It's just that because we observe the world as ourselves (with our senses and our mind) we cannot know what it feels like to be some1 or something else, say, a mirror image. Nor can we see the world as how things really are, we see it trough the goggles of our senses and mind. If you were a fly or an all-knowing and all-seeing entity (which doesn't exist, by the way) you'd see the world differently, perhaps realizing something that's really obvious, but still invisible to us.
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    Default Re: Philosophical headache thread: Is your mirror image alive?



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