Arizona cops seem to be racists

[shinjuuzumaki13]

This week, a new bill was passed in Arizona that says that cops can ask to see a persons documentation if they "suspect" they are in this country illegally. As a Hispanic, i find this REALLY offensive. I mean COME ON!! I live in the southwest. OF COURSE THERE'S GOING TO BE MEXICANS EVERYWHERE!! Does anyone else think the same?

[Eris]

In all fairness, it's not the cops that write the law. But it's still racial profiling.

[shinjuuzumaki13]

what sucks is that most of the cops in Arizona are probably Hispanic too, or have illegal family members. MORAL DILEMMA!!!

[deep blue]

When I was in Arizona this past winter some cops were pulling people over and asking if they were American citizens. When we told them we were from Canada they gave us no trouble, and didn`t even ask for our passports. It was interesting.

[Diocletian]

California should have this too. We Mexicans look like Salvadorians. I'm surprised they didn't enforce this before. There's way too many people without papers who cheat the government for welfare and stuff like that.

[wolfgirl90]

This week, a new bill was passed in Arizona that says that cops can ask to see a persons documentation if they "suspect" they are in this country illegally. As a Hispanic, i find this REALLY offensive. I mean COME ON!! I live in the southwest. OF COURSE THERE'S GOING TO BE MEXICANS EVERYWHERE!! Does anyone else think the same?

While I understand the intend of the law, walking up to a person and asking for their documentation because they "look" like they are in this country illegally (whatever the hell that means) is wrong on so many levels. If they have a crime and drug problem, why don't they just do more patrols? If cops see people doing something suspicious, they approach them and ask for identification anyway, so they really shouldn't have had to make this law, especially since the law pretty much says "find anybody non-White and question them".

While this bill pretty much leads to racial profiling, no offense, but there is racial profiling going on on both sides of this issue. Despite the numbers, I kinda find it a little off when people hear the words "illegal immigrant" and automatically assume a Hispanic person, as if the words can be used interchangeably.

[sa5m]

If it gets the job done, then it gets the job done.

[Eris]

If it gets the job done, then it gets the job done.

The same could be said about carpet-bombing the south with hydrogen bombs. There would be no more illegal immigrants, and no more illegal immigration, as that part of America would be an inhospitable radioactive wasteland. Granted, like a hundred million people would die, but if it gets the job done...

[wolfgirl90]

The same could be said about carpet-bombing the south with hydrogen bombs. There would be no more illegal immigrants, and no more illegal immigration, as that part of America would be an inhospitable radioactive wasteland. Granted, like a hundred million people would die, but if it gets the job done...

Which calls for the use of this poster:

[sa5m]

The same could be said about carpet-bombing the south with hydrogen bombs. There would be no more illegal immigrants, and no more illegal immigration, as that part of America would be an inhospitable radioactive wasteland. Granted, like a hundred million people would die, but if it gets the job done...

But it's not the same thing because unlike carpet-bombing the south with hydrogen bombs, this isn't a form of direct killing but a form of making people's jobs easier.

[sylvi]

But it's not the same thing because unlike carpet-bombing the south with hydrogen bombs, this isn't a form of direct killing but a form of making people's jobs easier.

Making it up to the police officer (who aren't very sound decision-making, reliable people most of the time) to drill whomever he wants about their citizenship might make it easier for the police and the state, but is that easier for people living here? No, and I don't think people should be thinking with the happiness and convenience of the state in mind, but rather the other way around.

[GameGeeks]

A police's job shouldn't be easy, in fact they have one of the hardest jobs out there. A bill like this doesn't make it easier, just makes it easier to discriminate. A police should need reason to do a check. Take search and seizer, they need a warrant to do it. I know the types of checks this effects is on the spur but I can see people getting asked this more often then it should be. Only type they should be checking for something like this is if they catch you doing something suspicious or illegal at which time it's perfectly fine, but at random it's not which will be what happens.

[Dr. Hax]

Institutional Racism: Racism at work in the operation of social institutions, including the economy, schools, hospitals, the military and the criminal justice system.

"Whenever race plays a part in the operation of any of these social institutions, harming minorities, institutional racism is at work. Racial profiling-in which police or others in power consider race or ethnicity to be, by itself, a sign of probable guilt-illustrates the operation of institutional racism. This is not a matter of one individual police officer being prejudiced and thinking that, say, all African Americans are potential criminals. Prejudice is institutional when such attitudes are part of the society's culture so that there is a widespread pattern of police automatically assuming that a black person who comes to their attention is engaged in wrongdoing...Police departments are part of society's power structure and claim to serve the public interest. Institutional racism of this kind is therefore often ignored."

Source: Macionis, John J. Social Problems - Institutional Racism: The Case of Racial Profiling. Upper Saddle River, New Jersey

That excerpt from the book I have to study from can also apply to Mexicans. Despite not being seen as criminals as often as African-Americans are, Mexicans do undergo a form of strict scrutiny. The legislation went through as a supposed countermeasure against the possibility that Arizona could turn out to have whites as the minority and Mexicans as the majority. This "countermeasure" is also a result of the cartels fighting in Mexico while more drugs get smuggled up here amidst the chaos. To prevent the drug cartels from branching into the U.S., Arizona decided to take no chances by passing this bill. (Most of this is projected thought and possibilities so don't take this portion of the post as pure fact.)

[Eris]

But it's not the same thing because unlike carpet-bombing the south with hydrogen bombs, this isn't a form of direct killing but a form of making people's jobs easier.

... as well as innocent people's lives more difficult because they happen to have the wrong skin color.

The ends to not justify the means.

[DOOM!]

When I was in Arizona this past winter some cops were pulling people over and asking if they were American citizens. When we told them we were from Canada they gave us no trouble, and didn`t even ask for our passports. It was interesting.

Once, I crossed the Austrian border in a car plated in De. When the driver told them we're german, the border cop almost polished the windshield before he let us pass.

[Alcmaeonid]

The ends to not justify the means.

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

[Eris]

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

Even the most atrocious acts can be motivated with the noblest of intentions. A tyrannical and genocidal warmonger can motivate his actions with peace, unity, freedom, safety, etc. In fact, most tyrants do.

It is only when we consider the effects as a whole -- not just the end results -- we can truly make an opinion if an action is desirable.



But if you don't want opinions, but a more formal argument:


Hypothesis: "If the means achieves desirable ends, the means are justifiable"
Counterpoint: For the given ends, one can formulate a means which are not justifiable.

I have already posted an example of such a means.

The same could be said about carpet-bombing the south with hydrogen bombs. There would be no more illegal immigrants, and no more illegal immigration, as that part of America would be an inhospitable radioactive wasteland. Granted, like a hundred million people would die, but if it gets the job done...

So you now have two options:

1. Agree that carpet-bombing the south with hydrogen bombs is a justifiable means towards solving the immigration issue.
2. Agree that the ends do not justify the means, and that other factors (the effects of the means) must be taken into consideration.

[Mirun]

Maybe they aren't racist, you're just policist.

[Dr. Evil]

Its not racist and you can kinda see where they were going with it but it is profiling. And profilin's wrong.

[Cobra Commander]

Doesn't bother me one bit. It's not as if there's going to be a Mexican witch hunt going on, what it looks to me like they're going to do is check your citizenship status when they bust you for a crime. Just because it sounds like they'll check you at the drop of a hat, doesn't mean they will. I knew an illegal Irish immigrant once...

I think they should have this law in Texas.

[Alycursed]

Yea. It does sound really wrong to allow cops to do that based on how you look.
But we need to get these people out of here, if that's what it takes, they ARE cheating the government and it really isn't fair. :/
Plus, I'm in south Texas and some are bringing a lot of violence.
How? There's plenty about that on the news and in the papers..
I don't mind this, we should have it in Texas.
I'm not an illegal, I have nothing to worry about.
It's a crime for them to be here, it's like finding a cereal killer.
I know not all of them are bad, but seriously..
we're paying for their crap.

[Zedekiah]

ITT: Pragmatism vs idealism.

Idealism is heavily relying on the benefit of the benefit of the doubt. As is crime, but not for the same noble reasons.

So is the sad thing that the racial profiling pragmatically works or that it's mean?

[Alcmaeonid]

So you now have two options:

1. Agree that carpet-bombing the south with hydrogen bombs is a justifiable means towards solving the immigration issue.
2. Agree that the ends do not justify the means, and that other factors (the effects of the means) must be taken into consideration.

Or I could just modify your previous statement to "the ends do not always justify the means".

[Gero50]

I do think it is kinda stupid they would go that far as to get local police involved so much but I guess that is how it is.

[wolfgirl90]

Doesn't bother me one bit. It's not as if there's going to be a Mexican witch hunt going on, what it looks to me like they're going to do is check your citizenship status when they bust you for a crime. Just because it sounds like they'll check you at the drop of a hat, doesn't mean they will. I knew an illegal Irish immigrant once...

I think they should have this law in Texas.

Well, the police check your identification when they catch you for a crime anyway, but that is not what this law is about.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/...faq/index.html

The new law says that the police MUST question people if they suspect that they are in this country illegally. Now, one must wonder what things they will be looking for in order to suspect that someone is in this country illegally. Since a lot of people focus on Latinos when it comes to illegal immigration, most suspect that's who the police will be targeting.