Well, the internet would be so boring if everyone agreed all the time. XD
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As soon as you guys started being kind of passively nice to eachother, this thread died. XD
Life has no subtitles. Support your English voice actors.
Then my master plan worked. At least till a mod yells at us for being off topic.
Well, that's the thing. Different anime have different traits. There are different storytelling methods (if the anime even has a discernible plot to begin with), many different genres and different themes used in anime. Because of this, to narrow anime down to specific styles and genres is not really feasible since all anime really boils down to are Japanese cartoons; that's what they ultimately are.
Interesting. I certainly haven't delved that much into. CGI is an animation technique (like limited animation), so that's why I think of it that way.
To also play devil's advocate, we could also discard the term "anime" altogether. I mean, since anime has no one set style or storytelling method, to the point where we can only identify some, but not all, by looks, why bother using the distinction at all?
Basically. While there are disagrees on what style has what traits, there's no real mistake where anime comes from: Japan. We only use the word "anime" to distinguish Japanese cartoons from domestic ones (or ones of other origins). The word "manga" is the same way. While there is no one specific manga "stlye", the word distinguishes comics of Japanese origin with those of other origins (including American). The same thing is used for "manhua" for Chinese comics, "manhwa" for Korean comics or "maqita" for Indonesian comics.
Who's having a war? Threads are for debating, yes? Why is it when two people actually decide to have a debate does it suddenly become "a huge war"? I'm not yelling, he's not yelling. I'm not calling him names, he's not calling me names. We're just debating.
Saying that I started being "passively nice" implies that I wasn't to begin with.
I wanted to clarify that, while MangaFanGuy and I had different opinions and debated as such, we were not having a "flame war", a "huge war" or any type of war. Just an intelligent discussion about anime.
This is my war face.
This is what happens to trolls who mess with me.
I was refering to Mangafanguy and Chan
Life has no subtitles. Support your English voice actors.
It is true tey have many different styles but this is all neatly caught together with the sub groupings of Genres (Shounen, Shoujo, Mecha, etc)
The same is with Cartoons where they could be grouped in more sub genres all under the overall guise of "Cartoon"
.Interesting. I certainly haven't delved that much into. CGI is an animation technique (like limited animation), so that's why I think of it that way
I think it is an interesting conundrum
It is animated but not in any way traditionally seen (Atleast not seen much)
And the use of CGI blurs the line between real life and Animation (With many movies becomming ore and more CG'ed
Why? because we canTo also play devil's advocate, we could also discard the term "anime" altogether. I mean, since anime has no one set style or storytelling method, to the point where we can only identify some, but not all, by looks, why bother using the distinction at all?
......
ok better reason lol
Because we can and it helps define a unique form of animation
Cartoons refer to a unique style
Anime anouther
Both are different in their own fun ways and it helps people get a rough handle on the particulars by breaking it down
Much like we break down just about any other medium
Book=>Science Fiction=>Space opera=>Post Apocalyptic dystopia or something
So it would be
Animation=>Cartoon/Anime=>Genre=>Subgenre=>Show
See I disagree that it is only used to seperate (For many people) simply ones based upon originBasically. While there are disagrees on what style has what traits, there's no real mistake where anime comes from: Japan. We only use the word "anime" to distinguish Japanese cartoons from domestic ones (or ones of other origins). The word "manga" is the same way. While there is no one specific manga "stlye", the word distinguishes comics of Japanese origin with those of other origins (including American). The same thing is used for "manhua" for Chinese comics, "manhwa" for Korean comics or "maqita" for Indonesian comics.
Many people will automatically judge a title as either cartoon or anime (Assuming a person familiar with both) merely by styleistic factors alone before worrying about origins
whichs sggests the definition of anime can go beyond into a more wide realm of stlyistic tendencies (Even tho I'm sure stylistic isn't even a word but you get what I mean lol)
Again, this brings me back to my point. Everyone here can identify the "anime style". We all know what it looks like and can easily identify shows that have that characteristic Japanese style of animation. However, if we do bring style into the equation of what is an anime and what isn't, we need to figure out what exactly makes an "anime" and what makes a "cartoon" (again, I am playing devil's advocate by using "cartoon" to refer to American animation). We know shows that automatically fit the stylistic definition of anime (Fullmetal Alchemist, Code Geass, Pokemon, Gundam, Neon Genesis Evangelion, etc) and shows that automatically fit the stylistic definition of cartoon (Spongebob Squarepants, Ren and Stimpy, Animaniacs, Family Guy, Futurama, etc). These are obvious.
However, the ones I am focusing on are the shows that are, stylistically, on the fringes, the shows that do not fit what most people would consider part of "anime" or "cartoons". For example, Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo, Lucky Star, Excel Saga and FLCL have the "anime style" (and are considered anime) but they are crazy and all over the place. Then you have the American cartoons Gargoyles and Batman: The Animated Series that are much more serious and shows like Transformers, Thundercats, Æon Flux, Samurai Jack and Teen Titans that are certainly influenced by anime but are not considered as such (and in the case of Æon Flux and Samurai Jack, they borrow from several different styles, not just one).
Avatar certainly blurs the line, but the line is still there. Once you notice the Studio Ghibli and Gainax influence, the line is certainly still there. So what would make Avatar an anime? Is it the style? Because Avatar is certainly not the first American show to have an anime influence (bare in mind that Japanese animation is not the ONLY influence in this show) and we sure as heck do not consider all anime-influenced shows as "anime" (its the reason why we have that distinction). Is it the story? Because Avatar is certainly not the first American cartoon to have a rather serious story. Is it the fusion of both? Again, Avatar isn't the first American show to do that.
The problem that I have with separating shows based on style is that while that makes sense for the shows that fit the typical style associated with each side, it doesn't help the shows that share both and ignores the simple fact that not all shows in each category are the same stylistically. Spongebob and Animaniacs certainly have the typical American cartoon style and storytelling, but Gargoyles and Samurai Jack don't. Code Geass and Fullmetal Alchemist have the typical anime style and storytelling, but Shin Chan and Excel Saga don't.
To make a separation based on style, we need to figure out what makes an "anime", what makes a "cartoon" and how much influence from each side does a show need to have in order to be considered one or the other. Avatar blends animation from both sides, Samurai Jack borrows a lot from anime, but anime is certainly not the only stylistic influence (same thing for Avatar), Teen Titans is drawn almost exclusively in the Japanese style and the shows Super Robot Monkey Team Hyper Force Go! and Kappa Mikey make a point of using both American and Japanese styles as a joke.
Last edited by wolfgirl90; 04-02-2010 at 01:27 PM.
This is my war face.
This is what happens to trolls who mess with me.
It is those that are on the fringes that I think can be defined either way
To call them an "Influenced" show just muddles the point even further
How far can something be "Influenced" by anouther medium until it becomes such?
How far can we go until all of our "Anime Influenced" cartoon simpy become just straight anime (Or benefit more from a much simpler generalization)
Overall it comes down the individual IMO as to whether something is anime or cartoon but to call something like Avatar "Anime inspired" whilst simultaneously calling Shin chan Anime just muddles with any point
Why not simplify the whole deal and Say
Avatar=Anime
Shin Chan=Cartoon
leave all of the finer detailing and pidgeonholing to the subgenres
Perhaps American Anime can become it's own subgenre until it diversifies enough to fit into the various genres of the Original Japanese animations
Perhaps
Anime=>American/Japanese=>Subgenre etc
Do away with with "Influenced" shows as anything more then aconcept and categorise them more simply
Because Cartoon and Anime are about the two broadet definitions we have for Animation.
So they really don't need to be specific in many ways and the more minor details are sorted through the use of subgenres.
what IS an anime?
An anime is an animated, professionally produced, feature film created by a Japanese company for the Japanese market.
Avatar is not an anime
The idea that anime is targeted only toward a Japanese market should have died in the late 90s, when anime surged in popularity in the West, and especially over the last decade, when anime has become fairly mainstream amongst American children, teenagers, and young adults. I can tell you that the the importing of anime to the US alone is worth just over $4billion USD, which is actually higher than in Japan, where the anime industry at its peak was worth just over $2billion USD. The further inclusion of western characters and settings, as well as Western themes in anime in recent years are obvious evidence that the anime market is no longer targeted solely toward the Japanese.
Now, what about anime that have a production staff from both the East and the West?
For example, in recent years:
Tekkon Kinkreet, a major feature film, which was animated by Japanese animation studio Studio4C and scripted and directed by Michael Arias?
Basquash, a fairly popular 2009 series created, written, directed by French director Thomas Romain and animated by the Japanese studio Satelite?
Oban Star Racers, created by French writer Savin Yeatman-Eiffel, directed by Thomas Romain, but animated by both French and Japanese studios?
Heroman, written by American comic book writer Stan Lee, and animated by Japanese animation studio Bones?
Are these "anime" or not?
"The color fades along the intervals I follow."
Yeah no. Not only does it not need be targeting the Japanese market, as was mentioned Japanese animators are well aware of there high sells margins in the United States and other countries... They also need not be "professionally produced". That doesn't actually mean anything for one thing. But also I refer you to works like Afro Samurai, which while 1 clearly had American ambitions, was also an independent manga.
Also, are you aware that a "feature film" is a film designed to be distributed to THEATERS?
By your standard, no series designed for TV or DVD release is ever an anime.... I'm sure this was a mistake.
Last edited by cherrypopwizkid; 04-15-2010 at 05:11 PM.
Life has no subtitles. Support your English voice actors.
since when did animes need to be feature films?feature film
The fact anime series exists proves this to not be the definition of anime
I love how everyone thinks "anime" can only be Japanese. "Anime" refers to a style of animated cartoons that originated from, and primarily made in, Japan. "Anime" is a specific group because of how all animes share the same artistic basics, which was based off of the form of drawings in manga.
If an American made a cartoon that is based off of the manga way of drawing characters and scenery, then it is "Anime."
That being said, no, Avatar The Last Airbender isn't an anime due to it's art direction.
In that case are you saying that things like Crayon Shin-chan or Bobobo or One Piece or Berserk, which do not have traditional manga-styled artwork, are not anime? Because Avatar looks more similar to the general style of modern manga art than either of those three...
The "manga way" of drawing characters and scenery is very broad, and changes drastically from person to person, region to region, genre to genre, and time period to time period.
"The color fades along the intervals I follow."
Bobobo and One Piece do have manga styled animations. Not so sure on your Crayon Shin-chan one however since I haven't seen it.
As broad as you think the "manga" style is, they all have similar attributes.
Here's something to keep in mind, "The Boondocks" is inspired and generally considered an American Anime.
Last edited by AlexKeller; 04-25-2010 at 02:14 PM.
Music: www.soundclick.com/alexkkkeller
isellspacesuits (8:50:07 PM): haha
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isellspacesuits (8:51:09 PM): the action itself wasn't funny
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If it's "animated by a Japanese studio", yes, it's legitimate anime. Story origin really doesn't matter. But if it's animated by a French AND Japanese studio....I don't know what the heck you'd call that. XD;
I'm sorry but.....yeah, no. The original PowerPuff Girls and Totally Spies and Teen Titans would be examples of that, so according to your statement, that makes them "anime"? That is a load. Legitimate anime can ONLY come from Japan.I love how everyone thinks "anime" can only be Japanese. "Anime" refers to a style of animated cartoons that originated from, and primarily made in, Japan. "Anime" is a specific group because of how all animes share the same artistic basics, which was based off of the form of drawings in manga.
If an American made a cartoon that is based off of the manga way of drawing characters and scenery, then it is "Anime."
Then that's like saying that music isn't jazz if African-Americans from New Orleans didn't make it, or it can't be punk rock if some pissed off British kid didn't make it.
An art form cannot be limited to any specific person, or race, or location. All it is is a style. Art is not defined by who creates it, but by its style or content (depending on the case).
"The color fades along the intervals I follow."
I disagree but whatever.
And if you're going to bring music into this....I really don't think it's the same thing. If someone who is not African-American is playing jazz, it's still jazz. I don't think music can be imitated because music is no longer an imitation once it's done. It is what it is. It's most likely you won't be able to tell whether or not the person is American just by listening to the music. But it's easy to tell the difference between anime and a cartoon trying to imitate anime. I've never seen a show imitating an anime and was completely fooled into thinking it WAS anime. For some reason, Americans who have attempted to make "anime"-styled shows just can't seem to get it right. lol They screw it up somehow. I have seen talented webcomic authors whose comics really do look just like Japanese manga. But those are few and far between.
American people can try to imitate anime but that doesn't make it true anime. It's a cartoon trying to imitate anime.
I'd consider it anime. It's in the Japanese cartoon style, despite it being made in America.
Umm...no offense, but I think you gave a bad list here. Tekkon Kinkreet and Oban Star-Racers are the only ones that are international productions (though Oban Star Racers barely counts since all of its animation was handled in France).
Basquash! was not an international co-production between France and Japan. While Thomas Romain (Code Lyoko, Oban Star-Racers) was working on the project, that's the only "French" part of the show (Thomas Romain actually has a career in Japan working on anime). Everything involving Basquash!, from production to animation, is purely Japanese.
Also, since origin of animation and style, not the story itself, is thing that is being questioned, using Heroman is not really good example since, as you said, it was produced and animated by Bones. The manga was even produced my Bones. Stan Lee only wrote it (well, technically, he co-wrote it but that's not the point now).
Yeah, but here's the thing: Anime has no one set style like jazz does. Sure, there is this "anime-style" that everyone here can recognize, but not EVERY single anime follows this style. Is it animation? Is it storyline? Is it a combination of the two? Is there more to it than that? And what characteristics make an anime an anime? The characteristics must be something that ALL anime share in order for the label to be used in such a way. If we can't, then there is no point.
Last edited by wolfgirl90; 04-27-2010 at 01:03 AM.
This is my war face.
This is what happens to trolls who mess with me.
http://www.animeyume.com/site_featur...ictionary.html
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/anime
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anime
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=anime
http://********.com/hub/Anime-Dictionary
if the last 1 not showed. then theres suppossed to stand
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instead of the *******
want more -.-?
Last edited by Hirasawa Yui; 05-02-2010 at 04:23 PM.
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read it backward. from bottom to top
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