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Thread: Anime or not?

  1. #26
    Junior Member larry1204 is on a distinguished road larry1204's Avatar
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    hello:

    by definition anime is not simply Japanese [nor Korian/Chineese]

    If you want to call it anime you are not wrong.
    if you don't then well .... simply don't but don't try to say that anyones contrary position is correct/wrong. [agree]

    yea, anime also simply dose not portray any avatar meanings, avatars still not have any cartoons nor a movie.

    hope you got the point..

    cheers


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  2. #27
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    i am like sooo glad so many people have watched this. i watched it then sat there thinking dude this is a kids cartoon you SHOULDNT like it this much. on the anime or not thing i consider it an anime

  3. #28
    Senior Member 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MangaFanGuy View Post
    By Definition anime is not simply Japanese (As the dictionary defines)
    ....................and you're going by a definition from an online dictionary that anyone could write in?

    Lawl.


    Uh...was that not my point?
    Your point doesn't make sense to someone who's NOT Japanese though. You're only going to confuse an American (if the poster is) if you say "Avatar's an anime".

    Enough of this, it's getting ridiculous now. Not all cartoons should be called "anime" just because the Japanese call them that! Why the heck do you think they don't show Family Guy, or Bugs Bunny, or Avatar or Danny Phantom at anime conventions?

    BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT REGARDED BY FANS AS "ANIME".

    Geeze..........XD If your argument is "It's anime because the Japanese call it that", by all means start calling dogs "inu", cats "neko" and raccoons, "tanuki".
    Also call mice "rats" and rats "mice" because the Japanese make no distinction between THEM either.
    And you, as an English speaker, will sound like an idiot.
    Last edited by 小美ドクロchan; 03-18-2010 at 08:53 PM.


  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Your Father View Post
    "Anime" outside of Japan is just Japanese cartoons. In Japan all cartoons are called anime. Avatar is not an anime. Just because it has inspired by anime themes does not make it anime. People who say it is an anime are usually the same people who think that they too can create an anime one day. They can't.
    Yes, its people like them who make reading American-made manga painful to the brain. Its also these people that make it aceptable to take everything the japanese have worked hard for in their animation studios and throw it up in a crappily animated American cartoon. WE ALL NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE, SO STOP TRYING SO HARD!!!

    Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway \(^o^)/

  5. #30
    Senior Member MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 小美ドクロchan View Post
    ....................and you're going by a definition from an online dictionary that anyone could write in?

    Lawl.
    before looking like an idiot I suggest you actually back your claim

    I have presented my side but you have so far shown nothing to support yours
    If you doubt the veracity of the definition I ask you show one that says differently

    not just what you think
    but something more concrete

  6. #31
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    Well Gjallarhorn, one thing you have to consider is that no one here is speaking Japanese, but rather we are speaking English. Basically, if someone says "anime ga suki" they could very well be speaking of all animation, and if someone says "I like anime" it's most likely that they're speaking about Japanese cartoons.

    So, you could argue that it MUST be Japanese (though, what exactly does that mean? If Kishimoto moved to America and created stuff for marvel would it not be anime anymore?) or that is MUST be Japanese-styled (Which is also equivocal because a lot of Japanese artists were heavily inspired by Disney) or that is can be any sort of animation.

    The same applies to manga.

    The thing is, we already have words for cartoon, animation, and comics, so using anime and manga to mean such things is somewhat inefficient.

    Personally, I'd like the words 'anime' and 'manga' eliminated from the English language, and for people to just stick with words we already got: Cartoons, animation, comics, Japanimation, Japanese animation, Japanese comics.

    The fact that people argue about this is a result of the racist otaku subculture that uses whether or not something is Japanese as a proof for whether it deserves to exist or be acknowledged.

    You can forget the fundamental theorems of Calculus and Algebra, but on these forums you dare not forget the fundamental theorem of Otaku:
    If something which is worthwhile exists and that thing isn't Japanese, then there must also exist a Japanese emulation of that thing which makes it no longer worthwhile.

    Yes, I know it's a paradox.
    Last edited by Wio; 03-19-2010 at 01:21 AM.

  7. #32
    Senior Member 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MangaFanGuy View Post
    before looking like an idiot I suggest you actually back your claim

    I have presented my side but you have so far shown nothing to support yours
    If you doubt the veracity of the definition I ask you show one that says differently

    not just what you think
    but something more concrete
    How about the millions of otaku who attend cons who would say the same thing? It's not really something I can "back up"...I just think it's common knowledge if you're an anime fan....*shrugs*

    It's like.........asking someone to prove that it's rude to drivers to jaywalk. It's.......well.......like, how do you prove that, exactly?

    Besides, I DID give you proof, if you read the rest of my post. Cons don't regard American cartoons (which Avatar is) as anime and neither do video stores. You won't find Avatar DVDs in the anime section at Best Buy, you will find them in the Family/Children's section. You are not allowed to submit an Avatar music video in an AMV contest because it's not an anime.
    Isn't that good enough?
    Last edited by 小美ドクロchan; 03-19-2010 at 09:40 PM.


  8. #33
    Senior Member cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid's Avatar
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    No one wants to hear from me, so I promise this is my last post on this thread.

    But I just feel the compulsion (curse my compulsive nature) to point out we are heatedly arguing about a word we all admit no one here uses "properly" in the first place.

    We are using words like idiot when we all come to this forum because we love...umm...Japanese Animation (see you guys have made me scarred to even use the A word).

    I'm outing someone and I probably shouldn't, but surfing around on here the forum there was even a prominent poster in this thread who said on a to do list on there blog they wanted to, and I'm paraphrasing 'knock the Japanaphillia out of as many people as he could.' I don't think he used knock because I'm sure he didn't mean violence...only ridicule which is usually worse.

    Why do you all care so much what someone else's interest are and how they explore them? And why does one person using a jargon in a way you don't think fits warrant such aggressive behavior?

    Its not the debate that bugs me its the level of frustration and anger and name calling over such a very simple thing.

    I implore everyone to relax, please.

    *awaits his flaming patiently*
    Life has no subtitles. Support your English voice actors.

  9. #34
    Senior Member Diocletian has a reputation beyond repute Diocletian has a reputation beyond repute Diocletian has a reputation beyond repute Diocletian has a reputation beyond repute Diocletian has a reputation beyond repute Diocletian has a reputation beyond repute Diocletian has a reputation beyond repute Diocletian has a reputation beyond repute Diocletian has a reputation beyond repute Diocletian has a reputation beyond repute Diocletian has a reputation beyond repute Diocletian's Avatar
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    I'm going to go by the assumption you've never met a Japanophile. I hope you never do and continue to live a content existence.

  10. #35
    Senior Member 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan's Avatar
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    Um, in my defense, I have not directly called any particular person on here, an idiot.
    And sometimes we argue just for the sake of arguing. This is the internet...and there have been far sillier arguments than this one.
    Last edited by 小美ドクロchan; 03-19-2010 at 11:36 PM.


  11. #36
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    Yes there have been and if I could stop those I would. I wish the internet could be a friendlier place. Especially in places like this, where people are coming together for a common interest. I hate the fact that people use that excuse. "This is the internet." Therefore all human decency goes out the window. Why? Because there are no repercussions. What a sad definition of morality, care only when it could come back to haunt you. There are still people on the other side of those avatars. They have the same neurotransmitters producing the same emotions as people you meet everyday. And don't worry, I wasn't targeting you. I'm targeting something that irritates me about the net in general and its prominent in this thread because apparently you can take the kids out of high school but you can't take the high school out of the kids.

    Oh well. I may be a rouge crusader in a futile war, but I'm glad I said something none the less.

    I will actually bow out now, I promise. XD

    Also...Your a towel!! =P (jk)
    Last edited by cherrypopwizkid; 03-20-2010 at 02:32 AM.
    Life has no subtitles. Support your English voice actors.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by 小美ドクロchan View Post
    How about the millions of otaku who attend cons who would say the same thing? It's not really something I can "back up"...I just think it's common knowledge if you're an anime fan....*shrugs*
    no it's not "Common knowledge"
    It is "Common Opinion"
    Opinions are not definitions orfacts (Unless backed by facts)
    It's like.........asking someone to prove that it's rude to drivers to jaywalk. It's.......well.......like, how do you prove that, exactly?

    I don;t even see how they comparable
    One is the definition of a word (Anime)
    The other is a subjective idea of a persons action
    Besides, I DID give you proof, if you read the rest of my post. Cons don't regard American cartoons (which Avatar is) as anime and neither do video stores. You won't find Avatar DVDs in the anime section at Best Buy, you will find them in the Family/Children's section.

    Thats funny
    Cos guess where you find the Avatar DVDS in video stores where I am.....
    You are not allowed to submit an Avatar music video in an AMV contest because it's not an anime.
    ok
    Why? Who made this rule? and why did they make it
    Isn't that good enough?
    no
    You haven't provided proof
    All you have provided is an argument ad populum
     
    An argumentum ad populum (Latin: "appeal to the people"), in logic, is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or all people believe it; it alleges, "If many believe so, it is so."

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by MangaFanGuy View Post
    no
    You haven't provided proof
    All you have provided is an argument ad populum
     
    An argumentum ad populum (Latin: "appeal to the people"), in logic, is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or all people believe it; it alleges, "If many believe so, it is so."
    Actually, some arguments which seem like fallacies aren't fallacies in certain contexts.
    For example, say two people are running for school president. If student A tries to assassinate student B's character, you'd say it was ad hominem; however, both student A's and student B's characters are being debated when they run for the office, so it's a legitimate attack.

    Now, when it comes to the definition of a word, such is obviously relative to the people speaking the language. To prove a definition it's necessary to prove that the typical speaker accepts that definition. An ad populum argument is exactly the type of argument you'll need to make. There's no logical fallacy here, but rather there are unbacked statements.

  14. #39
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    Now, when it comes to the definition of a word, such is obviously relative to the people speaking the language.
    agreed
    To prove a definition it's necessary to prove that the typical speaker accepts that definition.
    And how do we do this?
    here is where this begins to deviate from her argument
    Normally if you were to do this it would require a survey of some kind
    which we do not have here
    An ad populum argument is exactly the type of argument you'll need to make. There's no logical fallacy here, but rather there are unbacked statements.
    No
    This is an ad populum of a fallacious nature
    She appeals only to what she thinks the majority opinion is (Without proof this is the majority opinion )
    She rejects a dictionary definition (With her appeal ad populum and with the ever fun appeal to Authority as well)

    Now an ad populum here could work
    However she needs to prove that this is the popular agreement of the majority which she can't
    Her appeal to authority (Conventions don't allow it) is equally invalid and groundless

    an ad populum only works if you can back it up

  15. #40
    Senior Member 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan's Avatar
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    no it's not "Common knowledge"
    It is "Common Opinion"
    lulwhut? Saying something is what it is is a fact, sir. Avatar is an American cartoon, not an anime from Japan. Anime can only be Japanese in origin to be true anime. That is a fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by MangaFanGuy View Post
    Her appeal to authority (Conventions don't allow it) is equally invalid and groundless
    What's so invalid and groundless about that? Can you PROVE it's invalid and groundless? Because if you can't, that makes your statement "invalid and groundless".

    Look, if you don't like it, go to a con and argue with the staff. I withdraw from this debate because no matter what I say, it's like talking to a brick wall and I'm getting annoyed with the whole thing.

    @cheerypopwhizkid: Er.......if it bothers you that much, it's probably best to just not get involved. Ignore debate threads as much as possible, if you can. There's no stopping it. XD
    Last edited by 小美ドクロchan; 03-21-2010 at 01:25 PM.


  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by 小美ドクロchan View Post
    lulwhut? Saying something is what it is is a fact, sir. Avatar is an American cartoon, not an anime from Japan. Anime can only be Japanese in origin to be true anime. That is a fact.
    ok
    1/Anime by definition doesn't have to be Japanese
    2/I never Argued Avatar was not American
    What's so invalid and groundless about that? Can you PROVE it's invalid and groundless? Because if you can't, that makes your statement "invalid and groundless".
    Yes it is groundless
    cos it lack proof
    So some cons don't allow it
    Does that mean anything? no

  17. #42
    Senior Member 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan's Avatar
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    So some cons don't allow it
    Does that mean anything? no
    And have you thought that you saying so doesn't mean anything either?
    I'm quite sure ALL cons don't allow it and I DO think that means something.

    1/Anime by definition doesn't have to be Japanese
    Really? You find me an anime site that includes American cartoons in its description and I'll get back to you on that.

    You keep complaining about "proof"...well, I don't know what kind of proof you exactly have in mind, all right?
    Last edited by 小美ドクロchan; 03-21-2010 at 11:43 PM.


  18. #43
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    I am sick and tired of this arguements.

    Calling Non-Japanese cartoons Anime just because it has Anime elements. Anime is called Anime because it originates from Japan, but in the end Anime and Cartoons but fall into the Animation category.

  19. #44
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    MangaFanGuy, I don't want to argue with you over this, but...Anime by definition is Japanese. If anyone's still confused, refer to Wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime

    恋ではなく、愛ではなく。
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    重い。

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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by 小美ドクロchan View Post
    [color=Pink]
    Really? You find me an anime site that includes American cartoons in its description and I'll get back to you on that.

    Do you want me to send it in a PM?
    You keep complaining about "proof"...well, I don't know what kind of proof you exactly have in mind, all right?
    Proof?
    not just your opinion
    I have a dictioanary definition
    Provide something more reputable then "The people i know say x"

    Quote Originally Posted by xRiikox View Post
    MangaFanGuy, I don't want to argue with you over this, but...Anime by definition is Japanese. If anyone's still confused, refer to Wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime
    wikipedia is not the most reputable source
    however I will highlight the relevant parts
    Word usage
    In Japan, the term anime does not specify an animation's nation of origin or style; instead, it serves as a blanket termto refer to all forms of animation from around the world. English-language dictionaries define anime as "a Japanese style of motion-picture animation" or as "a style of animation developed in Japan". Non-Japanese works that borrow stylization from anime are commonly referred to as "anime influenced animation" but it is not unusual for a viewer who does not know the country of origin of such material to refer to it as simply "anime". Some works result from co-productions with non-Japanese companies,

  21. #46
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    Right, so in other words, Avatar is anime-influenced, not actual anime.

    I have a dictioanary definition
    So? Some person still wrote that definition, which still makes it their opinion too. It's the same as my "people say" except it's in text. Face it, you can't really prove anything with a text excerpt.


  22. #47
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    Mangafanguy and 小美ドクロchan sittin' in a tree....

    GET A ROOM!!
    Life has no subtitles. Support your English voice actors.

  23. #48
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    Please, he's younger than me so I won't date him. XD


  24. #49
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    *sigh* alright, I do so believe that the time has come for my imput on this issue.


    Anime is a style of art that falls along a spectrum, the origin is completely trivial. Looks a little like this:

    Realisim--------------------------Symbolism

    Now when we use words like "anime" and "cartoon", what we are really doing in our mind is attempting to ascribe meaning to catagorize many unlike visual examples.

    When some uses the statement, "Anime is not a cartoon because of the way it looks", what they are trying to say without realising it is this:


    REALISIM------(photographic picture)-------(photo-realistic)-------(Anime)--------(Cartoon)--------(Doodle)--------(Scribbles)-------SYMBOLISIM


    Thus, from this visual model, one would say that "anime =/= cartoon" BECAUSE "anime" is closer to the side of "Realisim", While "cartoon" is closer to the side of pure "sybolism".


    Every form of art involing people or animals MUST fall on this spectrum. And this will also explain why some anime look more like cartoons and some anime look more realistic. It's all just a matter of being more or less Realisim/Sybolisim.

    Hope this helped clear the fog a little.
    Last edited by Eric1; 03-23-2010 at 12:31 PM.
    The Brighter the Light the Darker the Shadow

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by 小美ドクロchan View Post
    Really? You find me an anime site that includes American cartoons in its description and I'll get back to you on that.
    I don't know what you mean by "in its description", but I've found an anime news site which reported on Avatar.

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