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Thread: Anime or not?

  1. #51
    Senior Member Doom85 has a reputation beyond repute Doom85 has a reputation beyond repute Doom85 has a reputation beyond repute Doom85 has a reputation beyond repute Doom85 has a reputation beyond repute Doom85 has a reputation beyond repute Doom85 has a reputation beyond repute Doom85 has a reputation beyond repute Doom85 has a reputation beyond repute Doom85 has a reputation beyond repute Doom85 has a reputation beyond repute Doom85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wio View Post
    I don't know what you mean by "in its description", but I've found an anime news site which reported on Avatar.
    Notice how Avatar is not included in the actual anime encyclopedia found in ANN, which is like the most popular anime website nowadays. Kinda an obvious sign what they consider to be anime or not, and a good number of the guys who run that site know more about anime and everything surrounding it than we do. So really, that link just helps the argument that Avatar is not anime.
    My name is Kakashi Hatake. What I like....I don't feel like telling you that. My dreams for the future...hmm, never really thought about that. As for my hobbies...well, I have many hobbies.

  2. #52
    Senior Member MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 小美ドクロchan View Post
    Right, so in other words, Avatar is anime-influenced, not actual anime.

    Some call it that
    So? Some person still wrote that definition, which still makes it their opinion too. It's the same as my "people say" except it's in text. Face it, you can't really prove anything with a text excerpt.
    lol
    So we should throw out all definitions cos "people say" them?
    no
    lets be logical here for a minute

    You claim that by definition Avatar cannot be an anime
    I show an official definition that contradicts this

    Now in order to refute my point you need to show how Avatar either doesn't fit the definition or the definition is wrong and provide proof of such

    Until then we have no reason to say Avatar cannot be classified as an anime

  3. #53
    Senior Member cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid's Avatar
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    One textbook I had for my General Psychology course defined language as an arbitrary series of symbols and sounds whose definition is agreed upon by a society.

    If this is true, than the definition as related in the dictionary or encyclopedia is obsolete if the majority of a society does not use the term in the same way.

    In all such cases though a society can change by location. One social group may use a word differently than another. So the only time a words definition would have merit towards a solution is, of course, in situations like the legal system where, much as you two are doing, the definition of a word in a contract or penal code can make all the difference on the verdict.

    So, if the question is "Is Avatar an anime?" and this question has turned into "What is anime?" Than the argument you both present would seem to me to suggest that the words definition changes depending on the social group using it. As we all agree that in Japan anime is a Japanese word meaning "animation" (if I am not mistaken, someone more versed in the language can correct me, this is written in Katakana is it not? Since it is of foreign origin itself?)

    For my part, I have to side with Chan a bit more just because the word does seem to be used to refer to animation made in Japan more frequently than not. But Mangafanguy brings out some compelling arguments. And certainly there are those who refer to anything Japanese Animation esque as anime. If this definition becomes standard, than it will change. Language constantly evolves. And I think its very possible that soon anime will refer entirely to a style of animation rather than a geographical source. The more interesting question to me was brought up a bit earlier.

    It was "Is there such a thing as an anime style?"
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  4. #54
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    It was "Is there such a thing as an anime style?"
    I think you could make a compelling case for yes

    Cartoons and Anime both have distinct styles (And are basically the reason we are arguing here in this thread) that set them apart as somewhat similar and yet wholly distict animation styles
    While the lines between the two styles are blurred somewhat I think you could definately come up with a "Style" that suits both "Anime" (And for those that want a broader sense Anime-Inspired/influenced) and the more westernized "Cartoon"

  5. #55
    Senior Member cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid's Avatar
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    I agree. Though something I've always thought is that an anime-style goes beyond just art work. The storytelling method is fairly unique as well. As is the business aspect. OVAs don't play the same role in other forms of animation and film, for example. The staffing is handled a little differently. My favorite part of this process by far is that it seems to me that anime screenwriters tend to have more direct creative control than they do here in the west.
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  6. #56
    Senior Member 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan has a reputation beyond repute 小美ドクロchan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MangaFanGuy View Post
    [/color]Now in order to refute my point you need to show how Avatar either doesn't fit the definition or the definition is wrong and provide proof of such

    Until then we have no reason to say Avatar cannot be classified as an anime
    Um...Doom just gave you pretty solid proof that it can't with his mention of ANN. I think if you took this argument up at the forums over there people would just laugh at you.
    Last edited by 小美ドクロchan; 03-24-2010 at 09:33 AM.


  7. #57
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    I dont know really. Most people just consider Japanese Cartoons as "anime". But in my own opinoin i dont actually think it is, you could say that the person who made the "last airbender" was inspired by japanese cartoon and made it look similar, but you know. Thats what i think :3
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  8. #58
    Senior Member cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 小美ドクロchan View Post
    Um...Doom just gave you pretty solid proof that it can't with his mention of ANN. I think if you took this argument up at the forums over there people would just laugh at you.

    DO IT! I wanna see what happens. Go over there and say you think Avatar should be on the list. I'm sure you'll get a lot of "No!! It was made by dirty American Swine!! Nihong is the motehrland!!!!" XD But I'm curious if anyone considers it.
    Life has no subtitles. Support your English voice actors.

  9. #59
    Senior Member MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy has a reputation beyond repute MangaFanGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 小美ドクロchan View Post
    Um...Doom just gave you pretty solid proof that it can't with his mention of ANN. I think if you took this argument up at the forums over there people would just laugh at you.
    And what is the argument they use for not allowing it?
    What is their evidence? proof?

    You say they don't allow it but you have yet to give a plausible reason why?
    And why we should accept it?

  10. #60
    Senior Member cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid has a reputation beyond repute cherrypopwizkid's Avatar
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    I think the reason why they used that as a source is because its a generally accepted authority on the subject matter. Generally accepted meaning popular enough within the social group using the terminology to accept the claim.

    I doubt I'll find anything, but since you seem to want an APA method of citing sources... Maybe I could go look through my colleges database. I don't know, there may have been some studies done by sociologist on the otaku trend, maybe it will provide support data for one of you. Which one I really can't say.
    Life has no subtitles. Support your English voice actors.

  11. #61
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    I believe are all well aware that the Japanese use the word "anime" to refer to all animation, regardless of origin. However, that is not the way non-Japanese use the word. Case in point: does ANY anime fan consider Family Guy an anime? No. Is Futurama an anime? No, its not. The Japanese use the word "manga" not only to refer to comics but also to animation (although this is not that common). In the United States, is Deadpool a "manga" just because the Japanese would have called it that? No.

    Hey, what about some other words? Did you know the the French word "entrée" refers to a smaller course BEFORE the main one? In yet, what do Americans use it for? Or how about the word "hooligan" which used to refer to drunken Irishmen?

    "Anime" is a loan-word in the Japanese language. They either get it from the English "animation" or the French "dessin animé". The same thing applies to its usage in English; its a loan-word. Since the vast majority of animation in America is from our own country, we use "anime" to denote those cartoons that are from Japan, not the cartoons that have the anime "style" (even we all know what the "anime style" is, anime has no one specific style).

    Because of this, I do not consider Avatar: The Last Airbender to be an anime. The style is certainly anime inspired, but the ONLY reason we are even having this discussion is because of its style. Its animation is the only reason why we are even talking right now. Again, I serious doubt that there is a single anime fan that would consider Family Guy, South Park, Ben 10, Chowder or Spongebob anime for the extremely simple reason of "Well, the Japanese do!"
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    Hey! I am a drunken Irishmen. we prefer to be called weepeople...or something... *hiccup*
    Life has no subtitles. Support your English voice actors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cherrypopwizkid View Post
    DO IT! I wanna see what happens. Go over there and say you think Avatar should be on the list. I'm sure you'll get a lot of "No!! It was made by dirty American Swine!! Nihong is the motehrland!!!!" XD But I'm curious if anyone considers it.
    All you'd get is a flamewar thread that either ends up getting closed by Betschy or Sevakis.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by cherrypopwizkid View Post
    Hey! I am a drunken Irishmen. we prefer to be called weepeople...or something... *hiccup*
    We also fear leprechauns. Damn, pests they are.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Your Father View Post
    All you'd get is a flamewar thread that either ends up getting closed by Betschy or Sevakis.

    yes probably eventually but at first we might get one or two decent responses if you do it politely. As wolfgirl was so "kind" to point out (jk) you can't bait flames here but I don't think theres anything about baiting them some place else. XD
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgirl90 View Post

    "Anime" is a loan-word in the Japanese language. They either get it from the English "animation" or the French "dessin animé". The same thing applies to its usage in English; its a loan-word. Since the vast majority of animation in America is from our own country, we use "anime" to denote those cartoons that are from Japan, not the cartoons that have the anime "style" (even we all know what the "anime style" is, anime has no one specific style).
    And also keeping in mind that when a loan-word is adopted, (regaurdless of it's origin), it's context is almost always slightly different in meaning from the original one.

    To give best fitting example I guess would be "Otaku". Which used in the North American sense is almost like a badge of honor for your devotion to anime and manga. While back in Japan, the word is quite offensive, and it's intention is to be hurtful and demening.
    Last edited by Ericgamer1; 03-25-2010 at 11:25 AM.

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  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericgamer1 View Post
    And also keeping in mind that when a loan-word is adopted, (regaurdless of it's origin), it's context is almost always slightly different in meaning from the original one.

    To give best fitting example I guess would be "Otaku". Which used in the North American sense is almost like a badge of honor for your devotion to anime and manga. While back in Japan, the word is quite offensive, and it's intention is to be hurtful and demening.
    You have made a good point. In Japan, depending on where you are, the word could just mean "a devoted fan of X" (it doesn't have to be anime) However, it also means "a homely, pasty fanboy (or any person) who life is completely devoted to X". It can be HUGE insult.

    The same thing goes for the word "baka". In Tokyo, its an innocent joke, like "Oh, you're so stupid" but in Osaka, its more akin to "You're a retard!!" (there is no innocence in the word).
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  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by MangaFanGuy View Post
    And what is the argument they use for not allowing it?
    What is their evidence? proof?

    You say they don't allow it but you have yet to give a plausible reason why?
    Go ask them yourself!! T_T

    And why we should accept it?
    Because they have more knowledge on anime than me and you put together.


  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by 小美ドクロchan View Post
    Go ask them yourself!! T_T
    That would be hilarious, because when it comes to arguments, ANN's Zac takes NO PRISONERS.
    My name is Kakashi Hatake. What I like....I don't feel like telling you that. My dreams for the future...hmm, never really thought about that. As for my hobbies...well, I have many hobbies.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by 小美ドクロchan View Post
    Go ask them yourself!! T_T



    Because they have more knowledge on anime than me and you put together.
    I'm not a part of their forums (Nor do I have any intention of being one ATM)
    However if they have a position then surely you can find out why? (Considering it is your argument and not mine)

    As for more knowledge they probably do
    So just lay it out here

    @Wolfgirl
    So essentially the term "Anime" and all that applies to is subjective?
    depending how you use the term it can be both as neither is right at all?

  21. #71
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    I believe it is, just American made anime. (;

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    Quote Originally Posted by MangaFanGuy View Post
    I'm not a part of their forums (Nor do I have any intention of being one ATM)
    However if they have a position then surely you can find out why? (Considering it is your argument and not mine)
    Look dude, I have a life. I have college classes and a job and lots of hobbies and I really don't have time to do extensive research on something so dumb.
    Yes, this is your argument, considering that you keep arguing with me no matter what I say....


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    Quote Originally Posted by 小美ドクロchan View Post
    Look dude, I have a life. I have college classes and a job and lots of hobbies and I really don't have time to do extensive research on something so dumb.
    Fine
    Yes, this is your argument, considering that you keep arguing with me no matter what I say....
    Isn't that kinda the point?
    it's a bit of a pointless discussion if only one person talks on the subject

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    Quote Originally Posted by 小美ドクロchan View Post
    Look dude, I have a life. I have college classes and a job and lots of hobbies and I really don't have time to do extensive research on something so dumb.
    Yes, this is your argument, considering that you keep arguing with me no matter what I say....
    Lines like these tend to ruin your entire argument. It's kind of like saying "hey, I'm a busy guy it's okay for me to have uninformed opinions!" In your case what argument you had was ruined when you made a thread like this run for four pages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cherrypopwizkid View Post
    DO IT! I wanna see what happens. Go over there and say you think Avatar should be on the list. I'm sure you'll get a lot of "No!! It was made by dirty American Swine!! Nihon is the motehrland!!!!" XD But I'm curious if anyone considers it.
    Fixed. But it's true though, animation that is made outside Japan is not Anime, is that simple. It may have the Anime-style elements but it's not an Anime....in the case, Boomdocks in also an Anime, psst. But Anime does mean cartoon and Manga does mean comic(sorta)in Japanese, but people nowdays represent Anime as the animation that comes from Japan.

    When someone mentions Anime, Japanese animation is what comes in mind...not Japanese Art style.
    __

    You know, there's sources that proves otherwise for both parties, so what about just agree to disagree? This is just being a cycle and it will not come into a end of who is right.
    Last edited by Kaitou+; 03-26-2010 at 08:51 AM.

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